Solo Artist Challenge 2 - Rebooted - brainstorming thread

[Izmael]

So the old Solo Artist Challenge (SAC) thread (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80165) has served its purpose to the fullest. Many a glorious hero has left their legacy in that thread for generations of nerds to admire.

However, not only it's locked, it's also obsolete.

So many things changed since it started - lazy aggro, invis pulling, sneak pulling, Velious to name a few. Some achievements are now a lot harder to pull off or even maybe impossible.

We need a new SAC. I'm volunteering to be the SAC2 maintainer.



I've been thinking of what SAC2 could be. It should be a complete reboot of everything and reflect the current state of P99.

Please contribute your thoughts and let's figure something out that will be considered as acceptable by most. After we reach enough compromise on the rules, I will compile the rules, submit it for peer review and make the actual SAC2 thread.

So here are a few starting thoughts.

Ranks

Instead of having the ranks such as Solo GM or Duo Legend that sometimes make it hard to quickly visualise what has actually been achieved by the person, maybe we could have per-zone ranks. Challenge mobs would be grouped by these ranks, and you'd need to kill all the zone mobs of a particular rank to reach it for that zone. To reach a particular rank you must also complete all the lower ranks for that zone.

Quick example, for HS - just for the sake of the example:

To achieve rank 1 you must be able to break and keep the basement main room clear
To achieve rank 2 you must kill all non-boss named in North
To achieve rank 3 you must kill the Crypt Keeper (North boss - certainly a tougher encounter than the other named in the wing)
To achieve rank 4 you must kill the West wing Boss

Etc etc.


So people would have different ranks for each zone. For example, someone who likes HS and fights there a lot on their enchanter, achieved rank 7 in HS. They also tried soloing some Seb on the enchanter but didn't go very far, only achieved rank 2. However, on their shaman, they happened to fare better in Seb, and achieve rank 4. They also duoed Chardok (on shaman with a monk pal) quite a bit and killed everything up to rank 5.


This someone's particular SAC2 achievement "fingerprint" would be:
HSe7-OSe2-OSs4-CHs4dm. It could actually be used in forum signatures etc.

The fingerprint means - "Howling Stones enchanter solo rank 7, Old Sebilis enchanter solo rank 2, Old Sebilis solo shaman rank 4, Chardok duo shaman with monk rank 4".

The fingerprint could be of course extended to account for modifiers such as strong item clickies and whatnot. The fingerprint is called the SAC2CODE, or S2C. Some of you might know the Geek Code (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek_Code) from the 80s. S2C would be a geek code but just for EQ nerds.

Does this seem too complicated? I like the idea of being able to put your whole soloing resume in a single line in your forum signature.
People who are actually capable of soloing zones like Seb or HS or SG should have very little difficulty decyphering or creating S2C tags.



Now just a few random thoughts open to debate.

1) Item clickies. It's important to make a precise list of clickies that are considered as "strong", per class. For example, Soulfire would be strong for every class, but Puppet Strings is only strong for anyone but an enchanter (Wand of Alllure hardly considered strong clicky and is the same as Puppet Strings but with less charges). A Reaper would not be strong item for any class. (Just for the sake of the example - open to debate of course)


2) What is considered killing a mob. My opinion is that having people clear the area then solo pull a mob for you to kill, most of the time, isn't worth much and shouldn't even be an option for SAC2. Most of the time, dealing with the surroundings is at least half the challenge. I'd say - for an encounter to be considered valid, you must zone in to a full respawn as far as your mob is concerned, clear to the mob yourself, and kill the mob dealing with the surroundings yourself. Doesn't mean the zone has to be empty, but it must be as hard for you to achieve as if the zone was empty. Example: you waltz through Seb down to bugs because some group just cleared the way, and realize it's open and Necrosis scarab just popped and is sitting there alone. You pull and kill it it, grats. But this doesn't count for SAC2. You didn't have to deal with all the mobs from ZI to the actual camp and you didn't have to deal with the adds near the mob. Try to do this again when everything is popped and there's no interference from anyone.


3) Melees. Given how few melees were interested in the SAC1, even though they had a particular rule of being able to be buffed by others, I tend to think that this particular rule should no longer exist. Self buffs only, period. It's a great deal harder for the melees, but the same rules for everyone would make it easier to compare achievements. So it's self buffs only for everyone. Of course, potions are allowed.


4) Level. Some kills have been posted in SAC1 that were impressive only because the player was particularly low level as opposed to the encounter. I'm not sure how to deal with it. Maybe disregard that altogether? Or create "leagues", for lower level players? I tend to think that "disregard that altogether" is probably best. These low level achievements were fairly rare, although usually quite impressive.

Please comment, add ideas, etc.

As far as actual ranks and mob lists for zones, it's out of our scope for now. Let's get the rest out of the way first, then we can work on compiling a list of zones, mobs and ranks.

</textwall>

[Tecmos Deception]

Keep in mind that I haven't played hardly at all since Velious and that I'm not playing right now... but here are my opinions, given that:

I like the old ranking system in how it focused on soloing in general rather than on one zone at a time. To earn any sort of "achievement" you had to hit different types of enemies in different locations, to emphasize that you were a solo artist and not just a sebilis artist or a HS artist. It made classes get out of their comfort zone (like a shaman doing HS south or a chanter fighting something that can't be mezzed or a necro visiting a zone with shitty undead charm options) to show what they could do to earn a rank.

I'm of the mind of giving a special bonus for a pure kill... i.e. not outleveled, no clickies, only self-buffed, no assistance getting to the NPC or with the pull. And then anything short of that gets qualified. A notation if you had outside buffs, a notation of what clickies you needed, of what level you finished it at if not 60, etc. It's all about fun after all, and it's fun to read about people pulling off fights even if they didn't do it without a couple of root nets or they were a SK that pulled off a tough fight but only because of some extra buffs ahead of time. Besides, it lets people who are up for it to try for a pure rank.

But looks pretty good overall. I certainly don't have the motivation to organize a new challenge ruleset!

[Phatez]

+6 dragons, A4 in PoM, Mini in hate, brood mother, frenzied, dogs in velks, the named in SG, BB in PoM, chardok royals, ragefire, how far in sky can you duo? Some ideas

[mastersapper]

I think having Solo only would be a good idea. No duo/trios etc. Or make it a separate thread or very clearly distinct. The first SAC had it intermingled and made it hard to interpret. My favorite stuff was always the true 1 man solo achievements.

[mcoy]

This thread is classist. What's a cleric able to prove? I did 45-49 at specs in Oasis... does that count?

[branamil]

There should be a point system for solo feats. 3 points for a kill, Subtract 1 point for strong clickies, subtract 1 point for help pulling or help clearing the trash in the way.

[Coeur]

Keep in mind that I haven't played hardly at all since Velious and that I'm not playing right now... but here are my opinions, given that:

I like the old ranking system in how it focused on soloing in general rather than on one zone at a time. To earn any sort of "achievement" you had to hit different types of enemies in different locations, to emphasize that you were a solo artist and not just a sebilis artist or a HS artist. It made classes get out of their comfort zone (like a shaman doing HS south or a chanter fighting something that can't be mezzed or a necro visiting a zone with shitty undead charm options) to show what they could do to earn a rank.

I'm of the mind of giving a special bonus for a pure kill... i.e. not outleveled, no clickies, only self-buffed, no assistance getting to the NPC or with the pull. And then anything short of that gets qualified. A notation if you had outside buffs, a notation of what clickies you needed, of what level you finished it at if not 60, etc. It's all about fun after all, and it's fun to read about people pulling off fights even if they didn't do it without a couple of root nets or they were a SK that pulled off a tough fight but only because of some extra buffs ahead of time. Besides, it lets people who are up for it to try for a pure rank.

But looks pretty good overall. I certainly don't have the motivation to organize a new challenge ruleset!

Try to die nearish a door where drumas or i can drag you from :p

[Liia]

This thread is classist. What's a cleric able to prove? I did 45-49 at specs in Oasis... does that count?

Clerics got pretty legit abilities to kill anything solo with puppet strings. I even think they probably got the best chance to kill a non slowable mob.

You can count on me tho to participate if the challenge ever see the day!

[Pokesan]

Achievement: Go Outside

[mcoy]

Clerics got pretty legit abilities to kill anything solo with puppet strings. I even think they probably got the best chance to kill a non slowable mob.

You can count on me tho to participate if the challenge ever see the day!

Ooohhh... good point! Didn't consider strings.

[Lhancelot]

There should be a point system for solo feats. 3 points for a kill, Subtract 1 point for strong clickies, subtract 1 point for help pulling or help clearing the trash in the way.

How about seeing what players can do without clickies. That would be more impressive imo.

Puppet strings shouldn't even be allowed in any of these contests, they totally destroy any novelty of accomplishing a hard solo kill when they are used.

These contests should involve no one helping with anything, nor any clickies, period.

[Diogene]

Well, not to be off topic, but I'd really like to see the challenge opened to lower lvls.
What about a special list for characters below 50 ? Lets say challenge can be started as early as 30. Below is a list (max lvl means you cant attempt target if you're above that lvl.)
- Runnyeye : the goblin king lvl 25 war (max lvl 30)
- Permafrost : high priest zaharn lvl 30 cleric (max lvl 35)
- Najena : the widowmistress lvl 35 (max lvl 40)
- Cazic thule : avatar of fear lvl 38 sk (max lvl 40)
- Paw : the ishva mal lvl 40 necro (max lvl 45)
- Kaesora : Xalgoz lvl 42 necro (max lvl 47)
- Dalnir : the kly lvl 40 wizard / Overseers of Kly if not up (max lvl 45)
- Lower guk : a frenzied ghoul lvl 42 war (max lvl 49)
- Lower guk : The ghoul arch magus lvl 45 wizard (max lvl 49)

Well, I'm sure there are more to add to the list

[Shoneys]

+6 dragons, A4 in PoM, Mini in hate, brood mother, frenzied, dogs in velks, the named in SG, BB in PoM, chardok royals, ragefire, how far in sky can you duo? Some ideas

BB in pom charms on a timer and has 1million hp. Can't be solod.
BB puppet would be challenging though.

[branamil]

Solo challenge v1 was 90% puppet string abuse. Kind of ironic you can't get puppet strings solo, it's hard to see why they should be allowed in a solo challenge.

[Lhancelot]

Solo challenge v1 was 90% puppet string abuse. Kind of ironic you can't get puppet strings solo, it's hard to see why they should be allowed in a solo challenge.

Exactly. I don't see why nerds are impressed with this "solo challenge" when it revolves around using a OP'd clicky in the first place. What's so great about it?

Who knows who is actually the greatest soloist, when not everyone has access to 500k worth of clickies. Stupid event that's not one bit indicative of true skill.

Just shows who carries around the best and most overpowered clickies in the game.

Either make it so the contest has extremely limited use of clickies, or it's a total borefest that only involves the richest players on the most OP'd classes.

Seeing that's the nature of the players here though, maybe make 2 BOTB solo challenges, one that allows clickies, and one that does not. I dunno. I just think it's a redundant challenge when you allow people to use clickies.

[Izmael]

Re: strings

I've been away in the countryside for the weekend, but all the while I was thinking about the SAC2 and the rules. The more I think about it, the more I bump into the puppet strings.

This item is peculiar in the way that it lets any class become an enchanter. Combined with their own class' abilities such as healing or tanking, the result is obviously hugely imbalanced. My first thought was to simply ban the use of strings. You could argue that a Reaper lets any class become a cleric. True but, IMO that's not NEARLY as imbalancing as being able to insta charm stuff 10 times in a row.

Face it, many classes won't be able to solo for shit without strings. A cleric without strings won't do very much anywhere. Is it fair? Probably not.

However, EQ isn't fair. Life isn't fair to start with. So maybe we can accept that and the fact that some classes are better soloers than other classes.

I tend to think that strings should be simply banned, along with a few other items that are too imbalancing and/or hard to attain for the average player - such as Red/White Dragon Tooth, Trakanon Tooth, maybe some Sky or PoM clickies, things like that.

Of course, that will mean that a cleric (druid, warrior, mage... etc) will have a much, much harder time gaining ranks in SAC2 for most dungeon-type zones. But is this really a problem? It will simply mean that achieving Velketor rank 3 on a druid is just as brag worthy as achieving Velketor rank 6 on an enchanter (just an example) and will get just as many oohs and ahhs.

As for other clickies, I tend to this there should be a compiled list of forbidden clickies, some of them only forbidden up to a certain level. For example, Ivandyr's Hoop would only be allowed for players level 40 and higher, or something like that. With level-capped zones, clickies such as Wort or DS potions should also be reviewed and banned in zones where they would be too imbalacing.



Re: zone level caps

I'm very keen about this. For example, Kaesora SAC2 would be only open to characters level 40 (or something) and below. Achieving top tier in a zone should be ROUGHLY comparable to achieving top tier in other zones - and level cap is the only way I can see to add sub-60 zones to the mix. Matter of fact, these zones should be so much fun - it's harder to solo, at least on an enc, when you're 40ish than when you're 60ish for many reasons. I think forbidding deleveled and highly geared characters is also a good reason. Who knows, maybe Blackburrow will be part of SAC2 and open to character up to level, say 15. A deleveled warrior with NToV gear will plow through that content and that's probably wrong.

On a side note, think how much fun a zone like Runnyeye would be in a SAC, with a level cap of around 37. Or Paw with a level cap of 40. Or Cazic Thule...



Re: Tecmos comments

I think you bring up some valid points. However, I firmly believe that the ruleset should be

1) simple - kill all of these mobs solo to achive that rank
2) strict - every single mob of that rank must be killed

This way, when you say "I'm SAC2 rank 4 in Seb", everyone immediately knows what you have done and what mobs you've killed (or at least can look it up quickly).



I never liked the SAC1 kills that got help with pull and such. Either you can go in a zone, solo a mob, loot its dead body and walk out like a boss, either you can't. There's no in between for me.

This will probably mean that enchanters will achieve the highest ranks overall. Again, there's nothing wrong with it. Everyone knows enchanters can lull their way past mobs and waltz around many zones easily. Nobody is impressed by that. A cleric achieving rank 2 in HS will be praised by everyone, while an enchanter achieving rank 5 in the same zone will be ignored because it's relatively easy.


Solo only

I like the idea. Solo only, period. Of course some stuff will be mostly undoable, such as Ixiblat and what not. Is it that much of a an issue though? Some stuff is undoable even duoing or trioing and that never was considered an issue.




Anyway, thank you everyone for the comments. Keep them coming. I will start working ASAP on a ruleset and maybe a quick and dirty web site just to put the ruleset on.

[Tecmos Deception]

Try to die nearish a door where drumas or i can drag you from :p

Lol. Hey now, I usually did my own CRs! There were quite a few times my backup charisma gear and clickies in the bank helped me recover from the ol quad-harmtouch-of-doom attack.


Achievement: Go Outside

Some of us have enough virtual and RL skills to be able to accomplish something in RL and something in P99 in a single 24-hour period :)


How about seeing what players can do without clickies. That would be more impressive imo.

Puppet strings shouldn't even be allowed in any of these contests, they totally destroy any novelty of accomplishing a hard solo kill when they are used.

These contests should involve no one helping with anything, nor any clickies, period.

This shit is about what's fun for the people who are actually doing it. Some of the people like to do it with minimal/no clickies. Some don't. If you don't think Svenn soloing the sebilite protector was bad ass just because he used strings in the process, then you're dumb. If you don't think Loraen soloing spore king was great just because he didn't one shot it while naked, then you're dumb. Etc.


Well, not to be off topic, but I'd really like to see the challenge opened to lower lvls.
What about a special list for characters below 50 ? Lets say challenge can be started as early as 30. Below is a list (max lvl means you cant attempt target if you're above that lvl.)
- Runnyeye : the goblin king lvl 25 war (max lvl 30)
- Permafrost : high priest zaharn lvl 30 cleric (max lvl 35)
- Najena : the widowmistress lvl 35 (max lvl 40)
- Cazic thule : avatar of fear lvl 38 sk (max lvl 40)
- Paw : the ishva mal lvl 40 necro (max lvl 45)
- Kaesora : Xalgoz lvl 42 necro (max lvl 47)
- Dalnir : the kly lvl 40 wizard / Overseers of Kly if not up (max lvl 45)
- Lower guk : a frenzied ghoul lvl 42 war (max lvl 49)
- Lower guk : The ghoul arch magus lvl 45 wizard (max lvl 49)

Well, I'm sure there are more to add to the list

This is fun, yeah. I wanted to sponsor a low-level SAC back when I was still playing Tecmos, but then I got caught up in something else with my plat instead :rolleyes:


Solo challenge v1 was 90% puppet string abuse. Kind of ironic you can't get puppet strings solo, it's hard to see why they should be allowed in a solo challenge.

Lies. Just more BS that people who got butthurt when Loraen didn't change the challenge to fit exactly what every random person who whined about clickies wanted.

Necros and chanters RARELY used strings. Eventually they had to qualify their kill as using strong clickies if they did. And shamans only needed strings to kill shit that was crazy impossible to kill otherwise; they regularly were in the back of HS east or crypt or whatever killing stuff with a wolf pet. A lot of the people who did the original SAC didn't even own strings (like me).

And, again, anyone with more even half a brain understands that when some cleric posts that he solod DS using 6 string charges and a pre-nerf clicky BP, it's a fun thing for him and a novelty to read about but nobody was claiming more than that.

[Tecmos Deception]

I understand not putting kills that need clickies or outside buffs on the same level as kills that don't. That's obvious.

But why the opposition to letting a SK post in the thread and get credit for something just because he needed haste and regen to do it? Why the opposition to letting someone get credit for some crazy kill just because they used a strong clicky?

Just put in another few letters of code for it. It's not like the original SAC was overwhelmed with competitors, right? You'll probably see even fewer this time around. Why not set the pure solo kill as the ideal but permit people to fall short of that as long as they make note of it?

[Handull]

I agree with Tecmos, unsurprisingly. I'm not sure why there's so much hate for strong clickies. Add a star or mark next to the kill and it sorts itself. In the old system I wanted to do it without clickies if possible, hands down. My all time favorite kill was soloing a golem in Fear, including breaking in myself, without using strings on a druid (VP robe and manastone used otherwise I'd never have the mana regen and didn't use C2 for the most part). There were fun puppet string kills too, but that one stands out for me.

Your system also seems way too complicated with different ranks for different zones, but do what you want. I liked in the first thread that you could pick and choose mobs to kill, some were much easier than others for different classes. The low level stuff is cute, but not something I personally care about. As with duo/trio, maybe make it a separate thread. It also sucks we can't edit posts anymore (seriously, wtf).

Start making lists of mobs imo. Some have been said, a few more would be: PoM Sniffles/Stomples, PoM Stallions, Need something in Kael maybe named gladiators and Kaleas or whatever the named before Vindi is called.

People are also free to of course post their own pesonal achievements as well. There are some druid kills I can think of that, without strings, are very impressive, but would be trivial for an enchanter or necro.

[Tecmos Deception]

Hey Handull!

When making a new list of mobs, how about things like city leaders? They usually aren't anything special, but they often are in pretty fun locations and with a bunch of stuff nearby that will assist. Faction loss is a turn off for some people though, unfortunately.

[Handull]

I remember reading about someone who was killing city leaders, or maybe it was just Kaladin's king for faction or something. Not sure I'd do much of it for the faction reasons you said, but who knows what interesting fights are out there.

Personally I want to focus more on Velious mobs, but it would be worth revisiting some classic zones. I've been getting my AC up on Ploktor and can put out a 78 damage shield, which tears up those low HP mobs.

Another "sensitive" issue with this is getting buffed. I don't fault anyone for getting a full set of buffs before going into a big fight, but to an extent it's less impressive. There are arguments to go both ways. Personally I don't really care what the "rules" are about buffs, I'll rock c2 if it some long and arduous kill or some crazy setup (I'd need c2 for my stomples/sniffles idea to be viable, I think), but I'll rarely bother to get the gambit of HP buffs from others.

Iceclad, toss in Lodi, but that's a good one for a "kill 5 of 10 in this list" style system due to the long spawn and highly contested nature.
ToFS Would love to play around in this zone but haven't done it. Maybe soloing the whole tower to the top is something for this list?
Can't think of anything for EW or GD and I haven't played in the dungeons off those zones much. GD has a named wurm I think, but not sure how hard it is. Velks has a bunch; Velks also needs some animal flagged mobs.
Kael is hard to move around in and has some beefy mobs, 2x named gladiators, named before Vindi, armor of zek? (quest mob and very hard to get to solo but probably soloable), not sure what would be worth killing to the north. I'd say plate cycle but those mobs mostly cast and break charm, but I mean who said this should be easy.
WL has three high lvl (54?) named giants, some angry (and non faction?) unicorn or something? I say leave the fawns alone.
Add PoG if you're crazy. Killing just one mob here solo would probably be impressive, maybe do-able if not KoS?
There's probably something good in CS but I don't know it.
SG is definately a playground zone for this thread, but there's so little loot and named are random as far as I know. We should focus on this zone and start to name camps and add locations to the zone map!
WW has the +6 and a bunch of other dragons.
DN probably has a bunch of good stuff, but I don't really know the zone well.
ToV is probably out, but maybe a shaman could do something crazy here on the right trash mob?
PoM: A4 is kind of the entry level stuff, moving up to Puppets (in order), the stallions, sniffles/stomples (my eye is on soloing him, no clickies), and that's probably it? Hailing the mob named Life should also be a requirement; fraps or it didn't happen.

Fear is basically dead now. The trash is the same as it was and the golems aren't soloable.
Hate makes me shudder at the thought of going up there to solo and dealing with the CR.
Sky I still can't see a solo going very far, we did a lot of small number stuff in sky with A Team and that was fun; would be cool with velious gear but it won't happen. Maybe the first efreeti solo? contested mob tho

HS/Seb same old same old
Cliff golems, efreeti, ragefire, named fire giants, ixiblat, maybe some of the weaker 32k dragons? spawned fay? spawned VS? chardok royals (and new chardok mobs later), not much in KC but maybe one or two mobs, etc.

It's more fun to get people going after a new challenge than to stress over all the rules and regulations. That's also why Duo was a fun part of the old challenge, because likeminded people can work really well together, it allows for obvious and non-obvious combos of classes to mess around and trade ideas. Also lets the melee/healer combos have some fun. More then a duo quickly becomes less impressive expect for the small handfull of fights that can't be solo or duo'd.

[Lhancelot]

Lol. Hey now, I usually did my own CRs! There were quite a few times my backup charisma gear and clickies in the bank helped me recover from the ol quad-harmtouch-of-doom attack.




Some of us have enough virtual and RL skills to be able to accomplish something in RL and something in P99 in a single 24-hour period :)




This shit is about what's fun for the people who are actually doing it. Some of the people like to do it with minimal/no clickies. Some don't. If you don't think Svenn soloing the sebilite protector was bad ass just because he used strings in the process, then you're dumb. If you don't think Loraen soloing spore king was great just because he didn't one shot it while naked, then you're dumb. Etc.




This is fun, yeah. I wanted to sponsor a low-level SAC back when I was still playing Tecmos, but then I got caught up in something else with my plat instead :rolleyes:




Lies. Just more BS that people who got butthurt when Loraen didn't change the challenge to fit exactly what every random person who whined about clickies wanted.

Necros and chanters RARELY used strings. Eventually they had to qualify their kill as using strong clickies if they did. And shamans only needed strings to kill shit that was crazy impossible to kill otherwise; they regularly were in the back of HS east or crypt or whatever killing stuff with a wolf pet. A lot of the people who did the original SAC didn't even own strings (like me).

And, again, anyone with more even half a brain understands that when some cleric posts that he solod DS using 6 string charges and a pre-nerf clicky BP, it's a fun thing for him and a novelty to read about but nobody was claiming more than that.


Wow. Aren't we defensive? I agree with the poster above. Take a deep breath, and go outside.

[Izmael]

I'm still totally unsure whether or not to allow strings. On one hand, it sucks to gimp so many classes and, as Tecmos said, "not let the clerics have some fun too".

On the other hand, I don't want the challenge to become a Strings Artist Challenge.

How about we start working on zones and mob lists, and leave these (albeit important) details for later?

I've put together a really quick'n'dirty wordpress website.
Let's start with Velketor's Labyrinth. Once we have that zone down, we can work on another.

https://p99solo.wordpress.com/velketor/


The existing page is a draft, I didn't kill or even attempt all Velk's mobs myself, I pretty much put there the ones I have personal experience with. A ton are missing - some dogs, mobs at the castle area (Bledrek and stuff).

Please discuss. I'm sure more tiers will be necessary than the 8 I outlined there.

[Tecmos Deception]

Wow. Aren't we defensive? I agree with the poster above. Take a deep breath, and go outside.

Madness, I know. Someone who enjoyed the original SAC immensely having quite a bit to say about a new one to people who just complain about people enjoying the original SAC immensely.

[Handull]

One zone at a time? Guess you'll get this up and running about the time luclin drips on this server...

Jokes aside, did you read my posts? Strings make the impossible possible, but I always wanted to no string kill it if I could. The best kills were either no strings or they were astonishing with strings as to blow your mind. It's as simple as an asterisk. It can also be a question of luck; on some fights a break is death, but strings can save you from RNG. Allowed or not people will post string kills, and since you can't edit the OP... it all hardly matters.

It's all about having fun. The fun here is bragging rights; no one has to care if they aren't impressed

[Daldaen]

I'd like to see them reopen the beta server and beta copy, then see who can 6-box the most impressive content.

Because solo artist, meh. Playing one character is boring and limits you to a charmer or a Shaman.

But allowing you to pick a 6 box crew where you're responsible for all actions in the kill will separate the pros from the scrubs.

[lurk]

I box 4 groups on ezserver simple with MQ.

Trying to box more than a few toons on beta was frustratingly hard. Props to anyone that can manage.

[Daldaen]

Boxing is really where EQ skill comes in if you do it legit without MQ2. Far more things to keep track of and do. Just one character in Velious though... just a RNG question of "did I Slow the mob, if yes I win" or "did Charm break, if no I win".

[Bristlebaner]

I think it should be a point system. Assign points to mobs. Higher difficulty and you get higher points.

[Alanus]

Only clickies that should be allowed are "easily obtainable" clickies (like goblin earring, ES arms, etc...). Things like soulfire and puppet strings kind of kill the point, which is soloing using your class. The problem with allowing strings is that they are a very expensive item which 1% of the P1999 population has access to. Obviously they are more of an equalizer (i.e. no way a druid is soloing things an ench can), but it makes it just about who has strings and who doesn't

Also, it should be based on class. Classes like shaman, ench and necro will be at a huge advantage compared to a cleric or ranger.

[maurilax]

If you believe there is skill involved in EQ then the origional SAC is absolutley a display of that skill. This is not an FPS where you need to be able to aim and shoot in the blink of an eye. Most of the kills in SAC require knowning the game and learning how and when to use abilities not to mention understanding the zone and mechanics of EQ. These are the skills required to be good at this game. Knowledge is power.

The raid scene on this server makes it almost impossible to do the actually fun challenges which would be 2-6 manning raid mobs. Everything solo has basically been done at this point.

I think the low level stuff could def be cool. When I soloed frog king in guk i was mid/low 50s and it made it way more of a challenge. Even some of my HS north kills were mid 50s and def a lot of fun and challenging especially those first summoning mobs.

[Diogene]

If you believe there is skill involved in EQ then the origional SAC is absolutley a display of that skill. This is not an FPS where you need to be able to aim and shoot in the blink of an eye. Most of the kills in SAC require knowning the game and learning how and when to use abilities not to mention understanding the zone and mechanics of EQ. These are the skills required to be good at this game. Knowledge is power.

The raid scene on this server makes it almost impossible to do the actually fun challenges which would be 2-6 manning raid mobs. Everything solo has basically been done at this point.

I think the low level stuff could def be cool. When I soloed frog king in guk i was mid/low 50s and it made it way more of a challenge. Even some of my HS north kills were mid 50s and def a lot of fun and challenging especially those first summoning mobs.

This. I totally agree with Maurilax. It takes som serious skills and knowledge to get these kills. Also dont forget shamans, even with strings dont have lull line spells, which makes things challenging anyhow. Let this challenge happen and dont shit the thread with boxing nonsense. Also thumbs up to Izmael for the website, its great to see this going again.

[Izmael]

I'm still looking for comments on the Velketor mob tiers.
Lots are missing, please chime in if you're a Velk wiz.
https://p99solo.wordpress.com/velketor/


Someone is working on lower level zones list and I'm about to start compiling data on Seb.

[Izmael]

Added a Howling Stones page:
https://p99solo.wordpress.com/howling_stones/ (https://p99solo.wordpress.com/home/zones/kunark/howling_stones/)

[Pyrion]

My suggestion: Make one SAC thread for every class. Ban all clickies.
This way a determined cleric can outcompete every other cleric. What's hard for a cleric isnt often hard for an enchanter. This way even warriors can have fun here.

[Jimjam]

http://www.gucomics.com/20000822

[Kawhi]

Added a Howling Stones page:
https://p99solo.wordpress.com/howling_stones/ (https://p99solo.wordpress.com/home/zones/kunark/howling_stones/)

Crypt Wurm in North seems to be missing.

Thanks for doing this btw should be fun.

[Izmael]

Crypt Wurm in North seems to be missing.

Thanks for doing this btw should be fun.

I left him out on purpose - figured he's too gimp to even make Tier 1, but hey, I'll add him because why not.

[Tecmos Deception]

I left him out on purpose - figured he's too gimp to even make Tier 1, but hey, I'll add him because why not.

Were you leaving the goo and the golem out too? They spawn in the same spots and have the exact same level and stats as the wurm, after all, apart from that proccing weapon the bile I think can sometimes have. And the spectre is barely different; he's just got a small lifetap proc I think? It's been a long time.

Besides, you acknowledged earlier in the thread that a large part of the difficulty in soloing any given mob is getting to (and possibly spawning) and pulling it, not just killing the mob by itself in a vaccuum. HS north is no picnic to solo unless you're already an accomplished soloer and/or familiar with the place. And even then, there's miles of difference between handling one of the rooms where the key for the boss room spawns as a chanter or a necro compared to as a shaman or druid or something. IIRC some of the best original SAC competitors didn't do north until they were 60, and I don't remember ever seen anyone outside of enchanter, necro, or shaman soloing it at all.

Further, you insisted on using a zone-by-zone system for this. Why in the world would you leave a named, loot-dropping NPC off of the list when your whole idea for the ranking was to show what all a person has done in a specific zone?

Are you sure about tier 6 for HS? Undertaker Lord is 56, so no normal mezzes, no stuns, tougher resists, and he's got a HT (and SK spells? I can't recall). Compared to Mortiferous Protector who is only 55, so he can be mezzed, stunned, has generally lower resists, and doesn't HT (or cast). Did they change DS with Velious? I almost want to say she should be on the same tier as Undertaker Lord. I mean, she hits harder and casts necro spells and has a big lifetap proc (as of the last I knew)... but she is more easily pulled and is only level 55 so she can be stunned.

[Swish]

Only clickies that should be allowed are "easily obtainable" clickies (like goblin earring, ES arms, etc...). Things like soulfire and puppet strings kind of kill the point, which is soloing using your class.

I completely agree and made this point in the old thread, apparently Daldaen and a few others who felt accomplished doing Verina Tomb solo with puppet strings/etc don't like that kind of criticism.

If an enchanter or even a bard can solo Verina with no clickies (granted he/she would need some luck) that's what the thread should be about - quite a milestone and worthy of a pat on the back.

I know Redwjamz/Hathaway solo'd Phinny and everyone was impressed - but wasn't there some issue with bugged mobs in the zone that he moved out of the way?

[Izmael]

Were you leaving the goo and the golem out too? They spawn in the same spots and have the exact same level and stats as the wurm

I'm doing north right now for exp so I have really recent experience dealing with all of its inhabitants.

Wurm is quite a bit weaker than the other named in this wing. Pretty sure he's lower level as well, I got nowhere near as many stun resists on him as on the named when I started doing north at level 54. I added him back though. He definitely has less HP's than the named too.


Besides, you acknowledged earlier in the thread that a large part of the difficulty in soloing any given mob is getting to (and possibly spawning) and pulling it, not just killing the mob by itself in a vaccuum. HS north is no picnic to solo unless you're already an accomplished soloer and/or familiar with the place. And even then, there's miles of difference between handling one of the rooms where the key for the boss room spawns as a chanter or a necro compared to as a shaman or druid or something. IIRC some of the best original SAC competitors didn't do north until they were 60, and I don't remember ever seen anyone outside of enchanter, necro, or shaman soloing it at all.

I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make there.


Further, you insisted on using a zone-by-zone system for this. Why in the world would you leave a named, loot-dropping NPC off of the list when your whole idea for the ranking was to show what all a person has done in a specific zone?

As I said, I left him out because he's barely different from regular trash mobs in terms of difficulty. However, I've added him back in due to popular demand (population = you). Also, I suppose, the more the merrier.


Are you sure about tier 6 for HS?

Absolutely not - this is a request for comments. Matter of fact I have never soloed a single mob in HS East myself, so everyone's wisdom is more than welcome.

Undertaker Lord is 56, so no normal mezzes, no stuns, tougher resists, and he's got a HT (and SK spells? I can't recall). Compared to Mortiferous Protector who is only 55, so he can be mezzed, stunned, has generally lower resists, and doesn't HT (or cast). Did they change DS with Velious? I almost want to say she should be on the same tier as Undertaker Lord. I mean, she hits harder and casts necro spells and has a big lifetap proc (as of the last I knew)... but she is more easily pulled and is only level 55 so she can be stunned.


As I said, not having done HS East myself other than back on live with a group - we're speaking 2001 so it's 16 years ago and memories are blurry at best - I'm gonna have to rely on everyone's comments.

What would you say? Put DS, MP and UL all in the same tier? or DS + MP in a tier and UL in the tier above?

I'm pretty sure south mobs tiers can also use some adjustments.

[Tecmos Deception]

I thought south tiers were ok.

Last I was in HS south on p99 (which admittedly was like 3 years ago), the one Spectre guy was level 55 and procs lifetap; embalming fluid and crypt wurm were both 52 but wurm is kinda nuts if he has the sword cause it procs a lot and for 500ish; the two other guys iirc are both only 50 so they don't even summon and are trivial compared to fighting the wings trash really.. lol.

For east I'd say UL and DS on top tier. UL might be harder for some people and easier for others so can't probably put them on different tiers. The rest of the nameds are about the same really... nothing sets them significantly apart from each other since they don't cast and the only proccing wep you can run into is just a lowish-damage snare.

What I was getting at with the rest of the post is that it's silly to admit that a big part of the solo challenge is getting to, spawning, and pulling a named, not just killing it, and then leave a named off the list just because it isn't anything special in and of itself. Plus if you're using a rank system that is on a zone by zone basis, leaving any nameds off the list that are from that zone seems, again, silly.

Other than that, maybe north nameds have changed since I was there 6-7 months ago. But at that time, I know all the nameds in there were level 50, same hp, same melee damage, verifiable with my loads of logs. Check yours. You can easily see if his melee hits are only 124 (or less) which is the max you'll see from trash in there (again, unless they changed it in the last several months), or if they're 140 just like the other level 50 nameds. Gameparse or.something will show how many hp he had... it's probably like 12,000 as a level 50 compared to the level 42-45 trash in the wing that will have like 4-5k hp.

[Izmael]

I'll change the HS East Tiers to reflect your comments.

North nameds are all level 50 and have about 8k hp - a very close complete heal on them gives that number.

As for the wurm, I mean I understand your remarks but I literally logged about 7 hours in HS north just today and killed everything there like 12 times, including all nameds, and maybe 4 crypt wurms. Crypt wurm definitely weaker than the other named. :)

Anyway, point is moot, mob is back on the list.

[Izmael]

Also, after examining my logs... Max hit from "a crypt wurm" is 132 (113 landed attacks sample size).

[Zorlon]

This someone's particular SAC2 achievement "fingerprint" would be:
HSe7-OSe2-OSs4-CHs4dm. It could actually be used in forum signatures etc.

The fingerprint means - "Howling Stones enchanter solo rank 7, Old Sebilis enchanter solo rank 2, Old Sebilis solo shaman rank 4, Chardok duo shaman with monk rank 4".

The fingerprint could be of course extended to account for modifiers such as strong item clickies and whatnot. The fingerprint is called the SAC2CODE, or S2C. Some of you might know the Geek Code (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek_Code) from the 80s. S2C would be a geek code but just for EQ nerds.

Does this seem too complicated? I like the idea of being able to put your whole soloing resume in a single line in your forum signature.
People who are actually capable of soloing zones like Seb or HS or SG should have very little difficulty decyphering or creating S2C tags.



I feel like this is trying way too hard to get recognition for something that maybe 30 people on this server might actually care enough about to try or work on.

Here is my idea to throw into the fire:

Make 2 categories similar to how speedrunners operate.

Any% - You solo'd the mob by any means necessary, including outside buffs, outside pulling help, overpowered clickies, whatever it takes.

Solo% - You solo'd the mob by yourself with zero outside assistance. Basic clickies allowed and Class Specific clickies allowed. Make a "Banned" list and vote on it. For example I think Puppet Strings should be blanket banned but Wand of Allure should be allowed to use as an Enchanter. A Shaman that can craft his own Wort pots can use them. A Paladin can use his own Soulfire. Again - take it to a vote of a good chunk of people that we can verify are actually going to work on this and weed out the troll votes.

Drop all of the Tiers and Ranks.

Ask the Admins nicely to open a new Sub under Class Discussions titled "Solo Artist Challenge" and allow all verified competitors to create their own thread to list their achievements. They can then link that to their sig. The moderators of that Sub can sticky the main topics such as the Rules and How To Compete etc.

If you then want to make a big sticky thread with the "Leaderboard" or other ways of giving the competitors a little extra pat on the back, wahtever, then a few people can maintain it. The scope of how in depth you can make that chart and how to make it properly is beyond this conversation at the moment, but it is a start.

[Izmael]

Tecmos' changes implemented in the HS page.

Added a Sebilis page: https://p99solo.wordpress.com/old_sebilis

Mostly took the rankings from the old SAC list. Let me know if anything needs rearranging. Particularly unsure about Tier 3 - are they really of comparable difficulty to solo?

I put Trakanon in the list (top tier obviously), because maybe, just maybe, someone someday will come up with a crazy plan and kill him, who knows. :)

Added "help from a rogue opening doors is allowed" to the rules page.

[P99Druid]

I'll change the HS East Tiers to reflect your comments.

North nameds are all level 50 and have about 8k hp - a very close complete heal on them gives that number.

As for the wurm, I mean I understand your remarks but I literally logged about 7 hours in HS north just today and killed everything there like 12 times, including all nameds, and maybe 4 crypt wurms. Crypt wurm definitely weaker than the other named. :)

Anyway, point is moot, mob is back on the list.

Crypt wurm is level 48, the other nameds in north are all 50. The crypt feaster he was talking about spawns in south and will indeed ruin your day if it has the flint dagger and you arent ready for it.

[Knowmercy]

good thread/idea by kunark farmers, but attempting to get way too formally detailed and accountable for an rng game. if gonna consider clickies may as well have a gear tier option or something

just post cool solo endeavors videos here or somewhere for ppl to critique and enjoy/rate them

[Alanus]

I know Redwjamz/Hathaway solo'd Phinny and everyone was impressed - but wasn't there some issue with bugged mobs in the zone that he moved out of the way?

If I remember right, he somehow got Phinny into the seahorse caves (I don't remember how) and then used a charmed tainted seahorse, and there was a bug where the corrupted seahorse would attack whatever killed the tainted.

[Tecmos Deception]

Seb looks ok. Probably need to put prot and tola on their own tier though... i.e. the "this is almost certainly impossible nowadays" tier. Lol.

I don't know what pulls look like at King now, but he really wasn't soloable last I knew. The pull is too hard.

Emperor is realistically soloable for chanter (without clickies, even), shaman, and necro at least. He's tough, and his room has several mobs in it, but you have space and time and few pathers to worry about.

[branamil]

You can land slow on Emp. I imagine you could lull his entire room and charm them one by one and send them at him. If he's slowed charm breaks wouldn't be too hard to recover from.

[Handull]

This all still feels way too complicated. It also feels silly that all of the lists are being made by people who either don't have experience with those mobs or who haven't touched those mobs in multiple patches of major mechanics changes.

The comparison to speed running was a good one. Full raid gear and clickers is like a TAS and is still cool, but stands apart from a human Any% or 100%, etc

I also find these kunark zones boring; it's been done

[Knowmercy]

This all still feels way too complicated. It also feels silly that all of the lists are being made by people who either don't have experience with those mobs or who haven't touched those mobs in multiple patches of major mechanics changes.

The comparison to speed running was a good one. Full raid gear and clickers is like a TAS and is still cool, but stands apart from a human Any% or 100%, etc

I also find these kunark zones boring; it's been done

seb/HS crawl is 15 years old, memorize every pather/do everything right, its gear, clickies and rng.

like i said op onto somthing. make a new thread titled "Solo artist challenger showcase" or somthing like that and post fun videos of different solo stuffs/dungeon speed running for ppl to rate/critique and enjoy.

server needs fun communal stuff like that, not more tiresome lists and rules

[Izmael]

This all still feels way too complicated. It also feels silly that all of the lists are being made by people who either don't have experience with those mobs or who haven't touched those mobs in multiple patches of major mechanics changes.



This is a community effort and you're more than welcome to contribute your knowledge of the said mobs.

[Izmael]

Thing is - not everyone memorized every pather and can do everything right. Not everyone played EQ for 15 years. Not everyone is a top notch soloer - that's why there are tiers and one's progression can be quantified.

[Kagukuk]

Very interesting pos thx for the job

Can you add some old world zone as warmup for new people or sub 60 one (lower guk , solb ..etc)

[Diogene]

Thing is - not everyone memorized every pather and can do everything right. Not everyone played EQ for 15 years. Not everyone is a top notch soloer - that's why there are tiers and one's progression can be quantified.

Agree...

[Diogene]

Here is a proposition for Low level challenge, starts as early as lvl20. Lets say you cannot attempt target if you're above its level ?

Tiers one :
- befallen : the thaumaturgist lvl 20 necro
- blackburrow : lord elgnub lvl 22 sk

Tiers two :
- Runnyeye : the goblin king lvl 25 war / goblin captain lvl25 war / an evil eye lvl30 wizard
- Permafrost : high priest zaharn lvl 30 cleric / King Thex'Ka IV lvl31 war / ice giant diplomat lvl35 wiz
- SolA : Solusek Goblin King lvl 30 wizard
- Najena : the widowmistress lvl 35

Tiers three :
- Cazic thule : avatar of fear lvl 38 sk
- Paw : the ishva mal lvl 40 necro
- Kaesora : Xalgoz lvl 42 necro
- Dalnir : the kly lvl 40 wizard
- Lower guk : a frenzied ghoul lvl 42 war
- Lower guk : The ghoul arch magus lvl 45 wizard

[Izmael]

I will use that when compiling mob lists for these zones. Runnyeye and Dalnir sound particularly promising as these zones are so out of the way, it will almost be like new content for a lot of people.

Soloing the Goblin King at level 30-ish (?) should be an epic achievement.

[Tecmos Deception]

You can land slow on Emp. I imagine you could lull his entire room and charm them one by one and send them at him. If he's slowed charm breaks wouldn't be too hard to recover from.

No need to imagine what's possible when you've actually done it: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1246961&postcount=743

Relying solely on calm is pretty risky. There are quite a few mobs you need to calm to pull him out of there or to be able to fight in the back of his room without getting adds. Yeah you can slow him, but he also casts dots and can't be stunned (or mezzed except with rapture), so on a charm break you either need a clicky or balls of steel to get your pet recharmed without getting killed... especially if it happens near the pull when you've got emp's pet coming at you too.

And that's just as a chanter. A necro needs to rely on a slow clicky or a pet with a proccing weapon or no slow. A shaman has even better slow but needs a clicky for DPS or needs to be able to spend 10+ minutes fighting him without getting respawns on top of him. Etc.

But as I said, he is definitely soloable, without clickies even for a chanter with some preparation and a bit of luck.

[supermonk]

I don't know what pulls look like at King now, but he really wasn't soloable last I knew. The pull is too hard.

dis is why I love this patch.

[Tecmos Deception]

I also find these kunark zones boring; it's been done

So don't do them or pay attention to them at all? :confused: