Reducing the ZEM for the most common leveling zones

[Izmael]

Crushbone, Unrest, Mistmoore, City of Mist, Karnor's Castle.

These zones share the following characteristics which make the the most common zones for leveling for the Nth time:

- Binding available fairly close
- Outdoors - SoW means you can train to zone with very little risk of death
- Ease of access - twinks bring their high levels in the zone to buff / res / etc.


I suggest these zones have their ZEM reduced by a lot. I mean a LOT - make it really painful to level in these zones. If you want safe boring exp, you'll have to settle with very slow leveling. I'd say divide the ZEM there by 3 at least, 4 ideally.

This will make the following zones so much more attractive, repopulating them and therefore making the server more classic:

- Befallen
- Gorge of King Xorrb
- Runnyeye
- Paw
- Dalnir
- Guk
- Sol a
- Sol b
- Najena
- Kedge Keep
- ??? Can't think of them all atm.

The above zones are ghost towns most of the time and could use more attractivity.

Thank you for your attention.

Edit: It could also make sense to reduce ZEM for the follow outdoors zones so people just dont flock there for easy exp - DL, BW, OT, FV (maybe more..). Fiddling with ZEM is perfectly classic so no worries about that.

[Munkh]

I don't feel you should reduce these zone by a lot. I think reducing them some and then bumping other zones to match or be on par with those higher traffic zones would help spread some of the people who are leveling toons.

I agree it can at times become overcrowded in these "hot zones" and some balance would be a nice welcome.

[Secrets]

Or just use the classic ZEMs:

http://wiki.takp.info/index.php?title=Zone_Experience_Modifiers

I don't believe P99 uses the classic ZEMs at the moment.

[kgallowaypa]

How about swapping the ZEM's on a monthly basis or something like that to encourage movement around different zones than just kill CoM or KC

[Samoht]

I suggest these zones have their ZEM reduced by a lot. I mean a LOT - make it really painful to level in these zones.

You're approaching this wrong. You don't need to be punished for playing CB > Unrest > MM > CoM > KC. The game needs to encourage you to level somewhere else by offering bonus EXP. They approached this on EQLive by doing rotating hot zones.

I would love to see more players in places like Guk, ToFS, Droga, and Velks. Or hell even more people leveling in ThurgB, Kael, or SS.

[mcoy]

The issue is not ZEM-related alone, however. For example, I believe on p99 the "bonus" applied to Befallen is the highest in game. However, it's still less frequented than CB because of the whole "orc belts / pads" quest line. The amount of experience given from those turn-ins (and the bone chip quest) cause many to skip the "killing" aspect of leveling for a majority of the 1-20 experience. This is repeated across many other "turn ins" around Norrath.

Additionally, using Guk from your example - I frequently see groups in upper, but it's rare to see someone in the 30-50 range (successfully) LFG in lower - because any camp that has the potential to drop something is perma-camped. Even if the camp is one of the less-desired ones (ass/sup) it's still almost always cleared because it's so easy to get to, and the 28m respawns enable 1 person (of the appropriate class) to clear multiple areas.

In classic I believe the ZEMs on some of the newb zones were inflated to make up for the fact that repeated deaths were a given, and spending a night playing only to end up prior to where you had started (xp wise) was (for some) a major turn off. With the economy of P99 there just aren't enough untwinked players around, so it skews the overall result and appears to just be an xp farm.

Thank god there's no Paludal Caverns... That place just existed to remove the newb experience altogether.

I'm not saying anything needs to be changed or fixed - just providing some of (what I believe) to be the reason behind your experience with the aforementioned zones.

-Mcoy

[mcoy]

You're approaching this wrong. You don't need to be punished for playing CB > Unrest > MM > CoM > KC. The game needs to encourage you to level somewhere else by offering bonus EXP. They approached this on EQLive by doing rotating hot zones.

I would love to see more players in places like Guk, ToFS, Droga, and Velks. Or hell even more people leveling in ThurgB, Kael, or SS.

Same here. One of my favorite grouping experiences in live was in Velks. I don't think I've ever successfully found anything more than a duo/trio here though. I've had to resort to just listening to an mp3 of the zone music...

-Mcoy

[Izmael]

Leaving the "regular" exp zones ZEM the same and increasing unused zones ZEM wouldn't be optimal. It's not like leveling on p99 is hard. It's 2017. People know the game. People know how to level fast.

As it is, Befallen's ZEM is already highest in game, and yet nobody goes there, bar a few PL'd twinks. Same for Kedge, you name it.

Simply put, 150% or even 200% more exp per kill isn't enough for people to bother going to these zones because of so many factors:

- penalty of death, tough CR's
- can't SoW
- no binds nearby
- tough zones with lots of casters and/or mob density

That's why it must be at least 3x or even 4x or 5x better exp in these zones. Then people will come.

Since increasing unsused zones' ZEM by 400% or 500% isn't going to happen - EQ dev's don't want people to level faster - and rightly so, I suggest to reduce the overused zones' ZEM by that much.

Seems like a logical approach to me.


I've been running around Dalnir today. Obviously, I was alone in the zone. It's an awesome, complex, challenging zone, yet nobody goes there ever.

This has to change.

MAKE LEVELING GREAT AGAIN

[kgallowaypa]

I was just in befallen last week before I went red and I met a few good people, all first toons non-twinked trying their best..but kedge and dalnir IS empty haha.. Are you proposing taking the slice of pie of some unused ZEM's like befallen and moving them around?

[Izmael]

No, set CB, Unrest, MM, CoM, KC ZEM to 20%.

Watch people learn "new" zones and enjoy EQ like back in 1999.

[Samoht]

No, set CB, Unrest, MM, CoM, KC ZEM to 20%.

Watch people learn "new" zones and enjoy EQ like back in 1999.

No. You don't want fewer places to level. This idea is too radical for anybody to support.

[Izmael]

Only need support from Nilbog/Rogean. There's evidence if them being quite supportive of not letting exping become too trivial - cf. chardok, bard AE.

You think what, people will go like "oh noes I can't level my 15th twink in MM in a week, imma go play another game" ?

Everyone will still play because everyone is addicted to the bone.

Also it isn't about having fewer places to level, quite the contrary - it is about making more places attractive.

[Gustoo]

Zones that need fixed Zem are the kunark zones that were popular on live but have terrible Zem here. Frontier mountains loio

Maybe dreadlands.

Otherwise the faydwer zones are popular because they are cool zones.

[nilzark]

Argument could made for any zone. Rotation only viable option.

[loramin]

I suspect 90+% (99+%?) of this server would be in favor of periodically raising the ZEM of unpopular zones and lowering the ZEM of unpopular ones ... although I doubt anyone except OP and a handful of others would want anything as extreme as what OP proposed.

But here's the problem: the staff isn't dumb, and they've been doing this for years, so they must have thought of this already. The fact that they not only don't rotate ZEMs regularly, but almost never change ZEMs at all, suggests that it's either a lot of work for them (which seems unlikely, as it's just changing a number in a database) or they just don't like doing it.

Either way, if they're not going to rotate ZEMs then I think Secrets hit the nail on the head:

Or just use the classic ZEMs:

http://wiki.takp.info/index.php?title=Zone_Experience_Modifiers

I don't believe P99 uses the classic ZEMs at the moment.

After all, we're all here for the "classic experience" right? And what makes for a more classic experience than classic experience (modifiers)?

[Sadiki]

Permakilling ZEM on certain zones isn't the answer. If people like that zone, they should be able to level there fairly well. A certain other server rotates ZEM bonuses between sets of zones and it's a rather nice idea.

[Lhancelot]

You're approaching this wrong. You don't need to be punished for playing CB > Unrest > MM > CoM > KC. The game needs to encourage you to level somewhere else by offering bonus EXP. They approached this on EQLive by doing rotating hot zones.

I would love to see more players in places like Guk, ToFS, Droga, and Velks. Or hell even more people leveling in ThurgB, Kael, or SS.

Exactly this. ^^^

They should not nerf the good zones, they simply should improve the other zones so that they are worth XPing in.

I don't get why they don't just make all the zones equal for XP, anyway. That would stop the bottlenecking of XP zones we have so often.

People are fighting over lvl 20 mobs in MM like they are named mobs during peak hours, it's ridiculous.

I'd love to see the amount of petitions the guides are having dumped on them over mobs and camps being KS'd or infringed upon in UR and MM alone.

If other leveling zones had the same XP modifiers as UR and MM, you would see a lot more people exploring other spots too.

[loramin]

I don't get why they don't just make all the zones equal for XP, anyway.

Classic ZEMs: Most classic option possible
Different but Fixed ZEMS: Not classic but classic feel
Rotating ZEMs: Not classic, but how EQ should have been (and would later be)
No ZEMS: So un-classic it makes Aradune give up drugs

As a side note, I just realized ZEMs are one of the only things on this server where the staff prioritizes a classic "feel" (most people in classic didn't know the ZEMs) over true classic mechanics. On almost every other decision (eg. multi-questing, corpsing lore items, etc.) the staff goes with the classic mechanics over the classic feel. Kinda strange that they depart on this one topic.

[Buellen]

Those zones you posted as most popular are so because they make it easy to level in. take away the Zem or just normalize it and people WILL STILL go their. They will go to what is most comfortable and safe for them.

The zem helps but people on this server as a whole will not take risk. Zone has to many casters cazic , run eye, etc etc NO WAY to hard. They want non caster mobs that can be pulled easily and consistently.

BUT HEY the devs want ti the way it is in regard to ZEM right! otherwise they could have changed it years ago 8).


Meanwhile those of who enjoy other dungeons either bring our own group or quickly out level it then go explore 8).

[NachtMystium]

Also have to keep mind, the less populated zones where noone levels is because they're dangerous. There is high risk, low reward. Dalnir's Crypt is a badass zone and can be done, but like this zone and many others it's a challenge and will test your group.

It's all about incentive, basic human behavior. The classic experience is an unpolished one, so there will be lots of gray areas on "how classic" you want the server to be. Of course the devs could change the game in a custom way to try and populate dead zones, but is it worth straying further from the classic elements that are already being changed in other ways? Nah, I don't think so.

Just make friends and play how yall want, people were alot more sociable on EverQuest back then because online gaming was still pretty new and you'd find alot more tight-knit players who met online, irc chats, muds, etc.

[branamil]

Raising or lowering Zems won't matter And will kill the leveling experience. 90% of people just want to log in, shout for a group, fight for a few hours, and log off. The reason people cluster in popular dungeons is because you are pretty likely to find a group and you can rotate people in and out easily.

People don't want to hang out in a inconvenient zones like runneye or splitpaw or dalnir. If you can't find a group you wasted an hour traveling there.

[thebutthat]

I like these zones being empty. They're the zones you get your friends together and go run some xp. The main line xp zones are the pick up group zones. Make some friends and take the road less traveled. It's a lot of fun.

[Tetsuo]

If you want to play in different underpopulated zones make a static group for them or join a guild that is more willing to explore the game rather than leveling 1-60 as fast as possible.

[Lojik]

I don't think these are hard to implement or bad ideas, I just think it strongly goes against the "classic" that this server tries to emulate. There are some ideas from other games I think that do this pretty well, such as continually adding xp bonus to individual npcs the longer they are alive, but this is a pretty unclassic feature so doubt we'd see it here.

[kgallowaypa]

Almost none of the 'ideas' suggested on the forums (That are not in line with the timeline progression) have been implemented by the dev's since 2011-2013 on Project 1999. I doubt this will change.

[loramin]

Almost none of the 'ideas' suggested on the forums (That are not in line with the timeline progression) have been implemented by the dev's since 2011-2013 on Project 1999. I doubt this will change.

Technically classic ZEMs are part of the timeline progression, but yeah I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them.

[Xxar]

Why not add in the original "hot" zones on rotation ?

[Troxx]

Why not just leave this server as classic as possible
as possible?

[Dreenk317]

No, set CB, Unrest, MM, CoM, KC ZEM to 20%.

Watch people learn "new" zones and enjoy EQ like back in 1999.

Just put a group together and go wherever you want.... Some of the best friends I have in game are because, in my 30's, I convinced a bunch of people to come to kaesora and leave MM. We had a great time, great exp, and I still regularly group with several of them, now at 60.

Also, the exp train zones, CB, unrest, mistmoore, CoM, KC. All have worse or equal Zems with the other zones you listed. The only thing stopping people from getting better exp in these other zones is the fact that they aren't going to them. That's a choice they are making. Their is already the incentive of exp. Nothing needs to change.

[Amyas]

In 1999 most people leveled in CB,unrest,mm

[Teako]

This thread reminds me of joining low level groups with some ree ree superhero insisting we should travel 10 zones away because "there's more mobs there!!!!". People often don't want more mobs, they want convenience. A steady enough stream of mobs is available in the populated leveling zones, while maintaining convenience and not being over the top difficult for the average group.

Shits pefectly classic. Sorry, but your boner for out of the norm leveling zones is dumb

[Qtip]

This thread reminds me of joining low level groups with some ree ree superhero insisting we should travel 10 zones away because "there's more mobs there!!!!". People often don't want more mobs, they want convenience. A steady enough stream of mobs is available in the populated leveling zones, while maintaining convenience and not being over the top difficult for the average group.

Shits pefectly classic. Sorry, but your boner for out of the norm leveling zones is dumb

The game is about exploring and trying different camps in different zones with different class make ups. Thats what makes the game fun. Not just traveling the same path over and over and over.

[ghost182]

Personally I like lvling in snowflake areas, either solo or in small nitch groups. not the traditional holy trinity stuff. Kaesora, Tower of frozen shadows.. gorge of xorbb casters suck.

but your post doesnt make sense. half the zones you listed have high zem the other half have trash zem. doesnt that kind of prove people go to classic zones regardless of xp per kill?

Seems like an arrogant thread imo. its a penalize everyone who doesnt play the way you want them to kind of idea. good luck with that.

[Teako]

The game is about exploring and trying different camps in different zones with different class make ups. Thats what makes the game fun. Not just traveling the same path over and over and over.

Every single path in every single zone with every single group combination has been done a hundred thousand times. This is a 17 year old game. The most efficient use of time is all most people care about, and taking Johnny_Bronze_01 out to Dalnir sounds terrible. The reason these zones are populated versus the ones that aren't isn't because you can bind nearby, or SoW to train the zone -- it's because the alternative zones have either far too few mobs, or far too annoying of mobs to fight. Dalnir? Clerics, wizards, traps, and pitfalls. Some of the most difficult to fight, and frustrating mobs that flee.

What's that? Mistmoore has backstab pets that can hit for 150 and plow through globs of mobs? It's also easy to get to, and do corpse runs to? AND it supports a large level range allowing you to go 20-40 without leaving a zone? There's also clerics who tend to camp out and offer free 96% rezzes, and buffs to groups enabling you to fight much longer before resting? High levels are often near by camping Soulfire and can help if something goes wrong?

OH YEAH WELL DALNIR HAS CRESCENT ARMOR11!1!1! FYTING BATENS! Bu-bu-but mah classikz experyiunc! I lebbeled in keeng jorb in 2001 in full brawnz with mah hi elf palurdan named xxinyuashaxx ! There is no paths left to "blaze" here, and no trail un-tracked. The community has discovered the easiest, fastest, safest, and most efficient places to level at during the long history of EverQuest and to try to change it is insane. The fun of EverQuest is often doing more with less, such as holding a full group camp down with 1-2 people, or soloing things far beyond your ability to do so.. Not killing Goblins in Nurga with a 5man because "FUK DA MIST MOORZ"

[Qtip]

Every single path in every single zone with every single group combination has been done a hundred thousand times. This is a 17 year old game. The most efficient use of time is all most people care about, and taking Johnny_Bronze_01 out to Dalnir sounds terrible. The reason these zones are populated versus the ones that aren't isn't because you can bind nearby, or SoW to train the zone -- it's because the alternative zones have either far too few mobs, or far too annoying of mobs to fight. Dalnir? Clerics, wizards, traps, and pitfalls. Some of the most difficult to fight, and frustrating mobs that flee.

What's that? Mistmoore has backstab pets that can hit for 150 and plow through globs of mobs? It's also easy to get to, and do corpse runs to? AND it supports a large level range allowing you to go 20-40 without leaving a zone? There's also clerics who tend to camp out and offer free 96% rezzes, and buffs to groups enabling you to fight much longer before resting? High levels are often near by camping Soulfire and can help if something goes wrong?

OH YEAH WELL DALNIR HAS CRESCENT ARMOR11!1!1! FYTING BATENS! Bu-bu-but mah classikz experyiunc! I lebbeled in keeng jorb in 2001 in full brawnz with mah hi elf palurdan named xxinyuashaxx ! There is no paths left to "blaze" here, and no trail un-tracked. The community has discovered the easiest, fastest, safest, and most efficient places to level at during the long history of EverQuest and to try to change it is insane. The fun of EverQuest is often doing more with less, such as holding a full group camp down with 1-2 people, or soloing things far beyond your ability to do so.. Not killing Goblins in Nurga with a 5man because "FUK DA MIST MOORZ"

I said nothing about dalnir. You're fucked in the head.

[Izmael]

A bunch of rustled nerds posting in my thread calling me "dumb" is already halfway to success. :)

Keep em coming

[Caiu]

Kaesora
The zem in this zone is massive. Shame hardly anyone utilizes it.

[Caldwin]

I've been running around Dalnir today. Obviously, I was alone in the zone. It's an awesome, complex, challenging zone, yet nobody goes there ever.
MAKE LEVELING GREAT AGAIN

Wish nobody was there last Saturday night when me, my sister and a friend tried leveling in Dalnir. There were 15 to 20 people in there at times.

Those zones you posted as most popular are so because they make it easy to level in. take away the Zem or just normalize it and people WILL STILL go their. They will go to what is most comfortable and safe for them.

The zem helps but people on this server as a whole will not take risk. Zone has to many casters cazic , run eye, etc etc NO WAY to hard. They want non caster mobs that can be pulled easily and consistently.


Also have to keep mind, the less populated zones where noone levels is because they're dangerous. There is high risk, low reward. Dalnir's Crypt is a badass zone and can be done, but like this zone and many others it's a challenge and will test your group.


Raising or lowering Zems won't matter And will kill the leveling experience. 90% of people just want to log in, shout for a group, fight for a few hours, and log off. The reason people cluster in popular dungeons is because you are pretty likely to find a group and you can rotate people in and out easily.

People don't want to hang out in a inconvenient zones like runneye or splitpaw or dalnir. If you can't find a group you wasted an hour traveling there.

This thread reminds me of joining low level groups with some ree ree superhero insisting we should travel 10 zones away because "there's more mobs there!!!!". People often don't want more mobs, they want convenience. A steady enough stream of mobs is available in the populated leveling zones, while maintaining convenience and not being over the top difficult for the average group.


The most efficient use of time is all most people care about, and taking Johnny_Bronze_01 out to Dalnir sounds terrible. The reason these zones are populated versus the ones that aren't isn't because you can bind nearby, or SoW to train the zone -- it's because the alternative zones have either far too few mobs, or far too annoying of mobs to fight. Dalnir? Clerics, wizards, traps, and pitfalls. Some of the most difficult to fight, and frustrating mobs that flee.

...

The community has discovered the easiest, fastest, safest, and most efficient places to level at during the long history of EverQuest and to try to change it is insane.

Shouldn't xp reflect risk vs reward? If zones are easy (low risk) shouldn't the ZEM be low, while the risky zones have high ZEM? The zones with a lot of dangerous casters should have much higher ZEM to reflect the much higher risk. Not that it is anywhere near classic.

And while certainly not classic and I'm not sure of the difficulty in implementing it, but I think it would be great if the ZEM was dynamic based on the overall difficulty of the zone, the number of people in the zone, the average level in the zone, the overall stats of each person in the zone and maybe other similar factors to determine true risk vs reward.

All else being equal, if there are more people in the zone, that would decrease overall risk, because of PC vs NPC ratio is higher, plus players can help others. Also, the higher level players are overall, the less the ZEM should be due to less risk to not only themselves, but to others in the zone as well. They can plow thru mobs that lower level groups struggle with. But, with less mobs around due to the higher level players, the lower the risk to lower level players.

I mentioned overall stats. But, what I really mean by this is twinked players. A twinked player or duo can take on mobs that would normally take an entire untwinked group, or nearly so. Twinked players have less risk and should get less xp, in my opinion.

The fun of EverQuest is often doing more with less, such as holding a full group camp down with 1-2 people, or soloing things far beyond your ability to do so.. Not killing Goblins in Nurga with a 5man because "FUK DA MIST MOORZ"

This has been my pet peeve with P99 as of late, as a single twink or a twinked duo can take down a camp that traditionally required a full or nearly full group. It really ruins the classic feel for me... not to mention non-xp farmers.

I'm not sure what the solution is for twinks, or farmers, though. I'm not blaming either of them. It's just the state the game is now.

Anyway, there really isn't a non-classic solution that I can think of for ZEM, twinks or farmers.