1 handed vs 2 handed dmg

[Vidar]

I got a question about dmg. Lets say i have a lvl 30 sk. If i give him a 15dmg 30dly 1 handed weapon will that be roughly the same as a 20dmg 40dly 2hander? Do 2handers get a higher bonus dmg or anything? or is a 2.0 weapon a 2.0 weapon

[Lune]

The short answer is that for a lvl 30 sk the damage is close enough that it probably doesn't matter all that much and the 1h is likely a better bet because of shield.

The long answer (someone correct this if it's wrong and you know better):

Damage bonus of the weapon & frequency it gets applied will make the difference.

1hander bonus is (level -25 /3)

For the RoM it is (level - 25 / 2) for levels 1 - 50 and (level -7 / 3) for levels 51-60

The Ebon Mace will swing 3 times for every 2 times the RoM swings.

So, for your level calculate your damage bonus with each weapon. If the Ebon Mace bonus X 3 is > than RoM bonus X 2, the Mace is better DPS (ignoring ripostes, but you'll probably be fear kiting so they're a non-issue). If it ends up being really close I'd pick the mace+shield until you hit 50 and the RoM starts to proc.

Example 1:
Level 43
Ebon Mace bonus = 43-25 / 3 = 18 / 3 = 6
RoM bonus = 43 - 25 / 2 = 18 / 2 = 9

6*3 = 18
2*9 = 18

They're basically the same. RoMs ratio is a tiny bit better and will win in DPS but the bonus you get from having a shield probably outshines the increase in DPS.

Example 2:
Level 55
Ebon mace bonus = 55 - 25 /3 = 30 / 3 = 10
RoM bonus = = 55 - 7 / 3 = 48 / 3 = 16

10*3 = 30
16*2 = 32

RoM has now pulled ahead a bit more and started to proc. The proc most likely makes up for the lack of a shield at this point.

Link to thread where I asked the same question as you (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141911)

[bum3]

Always thought it was a general rule that pre 30 1h+shield. post 30 if you can duel wield do it. if you can't duel wield, 2h(keep a 1h and shield for tough fights). But this logic is using the 2h buffs live did in velious, which I don't know if it is applied here. I think one buff was velious release and another towards end of velious. 2h damage bonus being 2-4x 1h dmg bonus depending on delay of 2h.

But when looking at cost of weapons on p99. Per dmg output, 1h sk weps are cheaper than comparable 2h wep prices. IE Ebon mace being 4k and RoM being 20k. That 16k extra spent on equipment would clearly increase damage output of ebon mace above RoM. Unless your pocket is endless.

[Crevex]

IE Ebon mace being 4k and RoM being 20k.

what is this RoM you speak of?

[gildor]

http://wiki.project1999.com/Rod_of_Mourning

Price inflated because it no longer drops.

[Brut]

Thought the delay dmg bonus doesn't exist on p99?
Not classic n all dat.

Personally always felt like 1handers outperform 2handers easily.

[xKoopa]

1h definitely wins by a landslide. 2h hits so unreliable, better off machine gunning faster attacks

Late velious patch may change this

[Dolalin]

1h definitely wins by a landslide. 2h hits so unreliable, better off machine gunning faster attacks

[Kich867]

1h definitely wins by a landslide. 2h hits so unreliable, better off machine gunning faster attacks

Late velious patch may change this

I just had this discussion elsewhere on the forums--is there some hidden thing about 2H'ers that I'm unaware of?

Do they have a higher chance to miss or something? If not then what is unreliable about them? If you have a ~20% chance to miss with your 2h you'll miss ~20% of your 1h'er attacks, given equivalent ratios, 2h should win by default then since dual-wielding only occurs ~70% of the time, no?

[maskedmelon]

I just had this discussion elsewhere on the forums--is there some hidden thing about 2H'ers that I'm unaware of?

Do they have a higher chance to miss or something? If not then what is unreliable about them? If you have a ~20% chance to miss with your 2h you'll miss ~20% of your 1h'er attacks, given equivalent ratios, 2h should win by default then since dual-wielding only occurs ~70% of the time, no?

2her has a larger damage variance, so dps is less consistent from fight to fight. in the end it averages out over time in normal xp groups, but you will see wide swings from mob to mob on short fights. also 2h do poorly on high AC mobs liek in velious because so many hits land at or near minimum dmg ^^


this is the current situation. The upcoming 2h bonus increase and monk triple atk will alter that.

[Kich867]

2her has a larger damage variance, so dps is less consistent from fight to fight. in the end it averages out over time in normal xp groups, but you will see wide swings from mob to mob on short fights. also 2h do poorly on high AC mobs liek in velious because so many hits land at or near minimum dmg ^^


this is the current situation. The upcoming 2h bonus increase and monk triple atk will alter that.

I guess I'm just wondering how that doesn't, at an equal rate, apply to 1h'ers? Is there source-code somewhere that says 2h'ers take a larger hit? Numerically it can be more but that doesn't matter, it'd be percentage based. If you hit for ~40% less damage with your 2h'er one hit you'd hit an equal number of ~40% less damage one hander hits unless something in the code dictated that 2h'ers are hurt worse right?

[Dolalin]

I guess I'm just wondering how that doesn't, at an equal rate, apply to 1h'ers? Is there source-code somewhere that says 2h'ers take a larger hit? Numerically it can be more but that doesn't matter, it'd be percentage based. If you hit for ~40% less damage with your 2h'er one hit you'd hit an equal number of ~40% less damage one hander hits unless something in the code dictated that 2h'ers are hurt worse right?

I think it gets messy when you consider the chance to proc dual-wield and double/triple-attack. I'm too hungover to do the math on that though. Maybe someone else can.

Dual-wield has always just *felt* like better dps than 2h (warrior here).

[Kich867]

I think it gets messy when you consider the chance to proc dual-wield and double/triple-attack. I'm too hungover to do the math on that though. Maybe someone else can.

Dual-wield has always just *felt* like better dps than 2h (warrior here).

Those chances are equal for both and would average out together as well. The only thing I can think of is that one gander ratios were just much better.

[maskedmelon]

I guess I'm just wondering how that doesn't, at an equal rate, apply to 1h'ers? Is there source-code somewhere that says 2h'ers take a larger hit? Numerically it can be more but that doesn't matter, it'd be percentage based. If you hit for ~40% less damage with your 2h'er one hit you'd hit an equal number of ~40% less damage one hander hits unless something in the code dictated that 2h'ers are hurt worse right?

minimum hits are the same. max and average hits are different. Individual hits fall within a distribution derived from the average hit. a minimum hit on a high delay weapon amounts to lower dps for that combat round. conversely a max hit results in higher dps for that combat round. a higher delay means hits occur less frequently, so it takes more time for hits average effective hit to arrive at average calculated hit.

average hit = (2*dmg)+(level-25)/3 for 18/24 and (2*dmg)+(level-25)/2 for 30/40
min hit = 1+ (level-25)/3

That means

average hit for an 18/24 at level 31 would be 38, min hit 3
average hit for a 30/40 at level 31 would be 63, min hit 3

over time ignoring dbl atk, your dps should be 15.83 for the 18/24 and 15.75 for the 30/40 (another benefit of low delay weapons is that they are favored by the flat dmg bonus)

however, if RNG tosses you a min roll 6 times in a row, your dps drops to .75 over that 24 second window. over the same 24 second window, you receive 4 additional rolls with the lower delay weapon, if you only roll min 6 times in a row. suppose you land your max hit on each weapon in the next 6 rounds. You would arrive at a decent average in 29s with the 18/24, but it would take 48s with the 30/40. Same dps output (ignoring the dmg bonus advantage of low delay weapons), but longer to arrive at it.

It also means that you could have higher dps over short interval with higher delay weapons. Point is, it is less consistent.

[bum3]

That's all good vs a training dummy. But without parsing the same ratio 1h vs 2h against the same mob with the exact same gear/buffs you wont know. And with RNG it could turn out different every time. As well as, you would have to do this every 10 levels or so. Maybe just need to see it as situational gearing. 2h vs fighting monks/rogues head-on. Riposte dmg so good with 2h. When fighting a tank use 1h.

[Varren]

That's all good vs a training dummy. But without parsing the same ratio 1h vs 2h against the same mob with the exact same gear/buffs you wont know. And with RNG it could turn out different every time. As well as, you would have to do this every 10 levels or so. Maybe just need to see it as situational gearing. 2h vs fighting monks/rogues head-on. Riposte dmg so good with 2h. When fighting a tank use 1h.

Mobs are training dummies. The issue is only when in a close fight, 2h's increased chance of variance from the average could potentially get you killed, whereas if you were using 1hers you would get more predictable results. Are you the gambling type?

With a long delay 2her you can kite a mob even in fairly tight quarters. For when you see that rare mob up with the pixel you crave...