MELEE PROBLEMS (Mob hit rate, # max hits, etc etc)

[Villert]

I can't believe this hasn't already been brought up, but here goes;

Our hit rate was recently fixed, and this is good, it was done, and done well, we melee classes are grateful for it. Having said this, please read on.

Melee classes are BUGGED. Whether it's our AC, defensive skills, or the mobs' we're fighting and their extremely high hit rates/max damage hits.

I have been speaking with other melee classes, and every one of them agrees, something is not right. The point of this post, is to have this issue recognized, for I have not seen any inclination on these boards, on IRC, or in game from any GMs or developers. I am aware, and appreciate that there is much work to be done, and the developers are simply swamped, but this is a big issue for melee players on the server.

There is a pretty obvious reason that melee classes are so rare on Project 1999, most have rerolled to casting classes - and I don't blame them.

If you are a melee class, or any class who has noticed these issues, and would like something to be done about them, please post your experiences on this thread. This thread IS meant to raise awareness of these issues, but also to lend a helping hand to developers, by narrowing down some of the many bugs we are facing.

We don't want to be any better than we were in classic, we just want to be the SAME as we were in classic.

Please post your thoughts and comments.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention endurance loss - which is a HUGE problem with 2h weapons, and heavier 1h weapons. The endurance penalty for attack speed is massive, and this high amount of endurance loss was definitely not present in classic. Please consider this one of our issues.

[Villert]

Here is my experience on Project 1999 so far;

I am playing a 22 Monk.

Currently, I have an AC of 450ish unbuffed, my equipment includes cured silk armour, 4 ac / 45hp rings, weapons that are 6/26 or 9/38 (fists are 8/35 at level 22) and I CAN'T solo light blues safely.

I was fighting a light blue con earlier, and it hit me SEVENTEEN straight times. Probably around 8 of those seventeen hits were for max damage. I am a monk with dodge and block, neither of which occurred during the whole fight (and rarely occur ever). This is not right. This is a light blue mob, blue mobs are near certain death at this point while solo.

I soloed a monk (in classic - not kunark, not velious) to 30+ pretty easily. It was possible, albeit slow, to solo a monk to 60 in Kunark. I can't solo AT ALL on Project 1999. Mend is broken, yes - but there is much more then that to this problem.

MOB hit rates are far too high, and the amount of times they hit for their max damage, is also incredibly high.

I also notice that in groups, I get outdamaged by necromancer and mage pets (of same or similar level) by probably 3:1, possibly more. I believe this must be because pets are considered MOBs by the game. I also find that pet regeneration rates are ridiculous, in and out of combat - but that's a different issue.

Please fix these issues, or there will be no melee classes left on this server.

[Danth]

I haven't created a thread on this topic because I can't identify the issue, but something ain't right.

Mobs do hit for max damage more often than I recall, and that max damage is sometimes for higher values (there's another report on the forum somewhere about this happening in guk, for example). While I've noticed nothing funny on hit/miss--frankly, I don't pay attention to hit/miss so something might well be 'off' with that, too. My healers are constantly running out of mana even with a limited pull rate--THAT, at least, is certainly 'off' given that I have decent armor for my level. I ought to note that I always played the same class on Live as I do on p1999 so there are no other classes that may 'muddle' my memory of combat.

My operating hypothesis is that there's something funny with mob attack ratings, but that's a mere hunch which may or may not prove correct, and which I lack any immediate means of testing.

Danth

[scumbag]

With 537AC, 950HP, dodge, parry, and riposte I can't solo anything but teal mobs. Healers always mention I seem to take a lot of max hits. I haven't said much since I don't have anything to compare it to but I've heard similar complaints from others.
http://ww88.org/scumbag-sig.jpg?project1999

[Reiker]

Haven't been playing much recently since the melee changes but I think 2 simple fixes would help a lot:

a) Lower NPC ATK by a certain % across the board
b) Lower NPC AC by a certain % across the board

[Haynar]

I am fighting low level mosts and hit rates are very often. I am level 5, and lizard I was fighting was either 6 or 7 (it was yellow).

It hit and bashed, or hit and kicked, every single round.

For PCs, bash and kick have refresh times. But the NPC I was fighting used one or the other every round. And it wasnt alternating. It was hit / kick several times, hit / bash several times. The entire fight.

Fought more mobs, and this hit/kick or hit/bash every round is definitely bugged.

Haynar

[Tantalar]

as a level 22 ranger basically overly equipped at my level. Ive got a 6/22 and 6/23 as well as a lot of nice gear and I flat out can not solo a dark blue mob unless I kite it which as we all know is much harder to do because of the run speed. Most light blues will severely damage my HP. It takes me forever to kill even a level 12 willowisp, and it seems like he is hitting me like a level 19 mob, despite being a green con.

[lapis_lazuli]

I gave up on both of my melees because it's ridiculous to even try and play them.

[sever]

750ac at 39 and level 34-38 mobs hitting for their max every other swing. It's quite funny.

[Galahad]

Armor having almost no effect is a problem on every emu server I've ever played on. If this server is using the stock code for that then it'll be a problem here too.

[Majnaurd]

Was fighting a a blue con Cent in EC.. Buffs and my limited heal.. Had to LOH and STILL died.. To a BLUE MOB !!! Ridiculous..

[Smashed]

Yes, people complained about melee hit rate. It seemed about right to me. However, what has seemed wrong from the first moment I got on this server is that monsters tend to almost never miss.

[girth]

I suffer from this. Its REALLY bad on monks, and i've mentioned before I don't see Dodges or Blocks in my combat log. Either that or there is 1 message per like 7 mobs and I just happen to not be looking every time it goes off.

Soloing light blues are very tough fights, dark blues almost impossible and when you do win even IF ITS A GREEN MOB, you are out of commission for a while because Mend is failing 50% of the time even when Mastered, and our evasion rate has to be like 5% lol.

[Swank]

I'm glad to read this case I thought I was going insane. I'm still a low level but blue mobs are routinely beating me down to under twenty percent hp, and seem to hit nine out of ten times. Happy to see I"m still sane and the problem has been addressed.

[Villert]

Just another experience I thought I'd share with everyone.

I dueled against a Necromancer pet over the weekend (blue or even con, definitely wasn't yellow). Here's how it went;

I lost.

Even though my mend succeeded (very rare), even though I intimidated (feared) Gaberer, and bandaged myself while it ran away, it wasn't even close. In fact, by the time I was at 1/2 a bubble of life, Gaberer had over 3/4 of life left. I know Necromancer pets were good in classic, but not THAT good.

It was pretty funny anyway. Isn't Necromancer pet DW broken still too? I don't want to imagine what it would have been like with that included.

[Tenudil]

I decided to parse a few fights to give me an idea of what the problem was. I can't comment on AC vs the mobs ATK because after seing mob hit rate, the point was moot. but its painfully obvious that there is something wrong with the mob accuracy / player avoidance. At lvl 10 high greens/light blues seem to hit over 95% of the time. Dodge/parry worked occasionaly, but otherwise they almost never miss.

[Nachyoz]

I decided to parse a few fights to give me an idea of what the problem was. I can't comment on AC vs the mobs ATK because after seing mob hit rate, the point was moot. but its painfully obvious that there is something wrong with the mob accuracy / player avoidance. At lvl 10 high greens/light blues seem to hit over 95% of the time. Dodge/parry worked occasionaly, but otherwise they almost never miss.

I parsed some fight data as well. Level 11 Paladin versus greens and light blues. I fought nothing over level 7. In 23 fights (2 were light blue con) there are 186 attacks made against the paladin, 11 of them were misses, 4 were dodges. The mob hit rate was approx 92%. My character has a dodge rate of 2% with max skill. On the other hand my character did 73 attacks, 52 hit and 21 missed for a hit rate of 71%. On a green mob this seems off, even at the low level of 11. My hit rate however, seems to be about right.

-Nachyoz

[Aeolwind]

My hit rate however, seems to be about right.


Strangely enough, so is your dodge rate =o. 186*.02 = 3.72.

Any suggestions/code on defense? Can be implemented in short order on the /code half.

[Nachyoz]

Yeah, math, 4/186 is approx 2% hence why I wrote the number :). I am not sure how 2% dodge rate compares to classic live. Just throwing it out there for people who might. I don't remember how often my character dodged back in the day.

I should have clarified the overall hit rate *seems* to be too high. I remember on live at low levels you could have an "epic" fight of missing where NPC and PC would just miss 5+ times or more. I did a parse with a level 1 and a level 2 vs a level 12 paladin. Paladin not attacking.

Level 1 (decaying skeleton): 76 Attacks - 53 hits (69.7%) 23 misses
Level 2 (klicnik drone): 66 Attacks - 47 hits (71.2%) 19 misses

Both those NPCs are attacking a player 10 levels higher yet their hit rate is comparable to the paladin's hit versus things 4 or more levels below him.

As for the damage dealt. I encourage people to read how AC works before complaining that it doesn't work. AC does not simply reduce damage. This post (http://project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=308) has good information. At least in my experience it is working fine.

Just posting my experiences and data.

-Nachyoz

[Villert]

Strangely enough, so is your dodge rate =o. 186*.02 = 3.72.

Any suggestions/code on defense? Can be implemented in short order on the /code half.

This may be the correct dodge rate for most melee classes - not for monks though. Monks are supposed to have an inherent bonus.

[Lenowin]

I witnessed the fight between Gaberer and Villert, and can only agree that if this were live, he would've stomped that pet into the ground with his current gear. The issue needs to be looked at in general terms as well, since very, very green mobs hit my druid with a nearly 100% hit rate and I've got my defense up to 100 or so at level 25, with a dodge of 75 and an AC of 316, which is low, but shouldn't warrant a level 10 mob hitting me for maximum damage upwards of 20 times in a row.

[Smashed]

I witnessed the fight between Gaberer and Villert, and can only agree that if this were live, he would've stomped that pet into the ground with his current gear. The issue needs to be looked at in general terms as well, since very, very green mobs hit my druid with a nearly 100% hit rate and I've got my defense up to 100 or so at level 25, with a dodge of 75 and an AC of 316, which is low, but shouldn't warrant a level 10 mob hitting me for maximum damage upwards of 20 times in a row.

Mage/Necro pets *seriously* owned warriors in classic all the time in duels. That was always a very loud complaint.....am I the only one who remembers people crying about that? Thats a large part of the reason necro pets got nerfed down a lot.

From a balance standpoint, I don't agree with this. From a historical standpoint however....this sounds right.

The problem isn't with pets, its with the mob accuracy being sky high.

[Allizia]

I played a dwarf warrior in classic and could never kill necro pets. Mage fire pets I could never get below 80%. This is classic. A well geared warrior in classic could not kill a hill giant until 47 or 48 and it was still close.

[Villert]

Except - Villert is a monk, not a warrior :-p

I remember dueling and destroying necro pets and most mage pets using a combination of ID, bandaging and mend.

I do agree with the warrior history vs pets though - as unfair as that was.

[Jify]

Ya, it's not so much AC as it seems to be hit rate. I remember green/blues missing a LOT more than they do now. Meleeing an even con mob seems nearly identical to fighting a blue, or even a yellow, other than the amount of max hits. With my low lvl alt in full banded, mobs tend to hit lower damage more often, but rarely, if ever, miss (even greens).

[Thorian]

Aye I have to agree with mob hit rates, im standing at - lvl 22 ( warrior ) with 516 ac and im hit all the time. Its insanely frustrating

[Haynar]

Making the server "classic" does not mean making it "suck" for certain classes like it did back in 1999. It currently sucks for melee classes. If you really want it to be like EQ was in 1999, then get out the nerf bat, and make it equally suck for everyone. Afterall, that is why VI is still around. Oh wait, no they aren't.

Haynar

[girth]

I'm tired of casters just chalking every melee balance issue up as a Classic issue. There is a difference between underpowered and broken. Melee are broken at the moment and this needs a serious fix asap. This SEVERELY hurts classes that use avoidance (monks) to be able to tank a mob for longer than 5 seconds without dying.

Mobs hit rate is way too high. I remember back when mobs used to miss 5-8 times in a row as well, now its just us.

[Haynar]

Some of my observations so far.

Bash / Kick of mobs have a reuse time for mobs of 5 seconds. This seems to be working exactly like this, because it is almost clockwork, that a bash or kick (from warrior like mob) occurs every 5 seconds. The normal EMU code puts kick about 75% of time, and it seems to work just like that here.

What I saw in the EMU code, was that haste, appears to be applied to the special class attacks (combat) reuse timers for mobs and players. I do not remember haste ever affecting these on live. Refresh time for skills based attacks such as kick and bash were fixed for the most part. I am not totally positive on this. I think the slow (negative haste) causing refreshes to slow, might be the case. But I am 99.9% positive that positive haste by spells and items, never lowered refresh times on skills such as bash for players.

When testing bash refresh times on my SK, I saw that it had a refresh time of 10 seconds, and not the 5 seconds as seen by mobs. Also I was at 100 percent endurance when this was happening, not encumbered, no haste, nothing. But my refresh for bash was double what mobs appeared to be seeing.

Hope this info helps with combat issues.

Haynar

[sever]

Haste and Slow spells both affected special abilities for PCs, that much I do know.

[guineapig]

Are we taking into account gear from back in the day though?
There was much more armor available as far back as 2001, not to mentions better weapons (to make fights shorter), newbi quests, twink gear and so on.

Basically what I'm trying to say is, is what you remember as the standard actually from your first melee character experience in 1999? Or was it an alt, was is from 2001, etc?

[Villert]

Are we taking into account gear from back in the day though?
There was much more armor available as far back as 2001, not to mentions better weapons (to make fights shorter), newbi quests, twink gear and so on.

Basically what I'm trying to say is, is what you remember as the standard actually from your first melee character experience in 1999? Or was it an alt, was is from 2001, etc?

Hehe. No, this is not a gear issue.

Of course we can appreciate what you mean by equipment being far worse in the classic era, but it was nothing like this. Not even close :-p

[Morfnblorsh]

I played a warrior since Classic for about 7 years. I rarely had groups so I was constantly soloing things. I can remember on at least two occasions petitioning a GM to ask if there was something wrong with me based on how often I missed. He'd ask a few questions, check my stats and gear, and then chalk it up to "bad luck".

I can remember constantly getting into those gritty, anxious miss/miss nose to the grindstone battles where myself and a mob are at 2% health and whoever gets the next hit wins.

I think that there was something wrong, but now that they've tweaked it I feel things are much better and the way they should be. Lo and behold, I've also gained a few levels and gear improvements since then which have only bolstered how I currently feel.

I think things are okay now, and I play a melee character exclusively. Flame away if you want, it's just how I feel.

[Villert]

I played a warrior since Classic for about 7 years. I rarely had groups so I was constantly soloing things. I can remember on at least two occasions petitioning a GM to ask if there was something wrong with me based on how often I missed. He'd ask a few questions, check my stats and gear, and then chalk it up to "bad luck".

I can remember constantly getting into those gritty, anxious miss/miss nose to the grindstone battles where myself and a mob are at 2% health and whoever gets the next hit wins.

I think that there was something wrong, but now that they've tweaked it I feel things are much better and the way they should be. Lo and behold, I've also gained a few levels and gear improvements since then which have only bolstered how I currently feel.

I think things are okay now, and I play a melee character exclusively. Flame away if you want, it's just how I feel.

Hit rate isn't a problem. Not any more at least. The problem is oncoming damage from mobs...

[Morfnblorsh]

Oops, forgive me. Well, I'm glad that portion is settled then. In the interim I shall L2Read.

[Propaganda]

I am also having many issues as a rogue. I get trampled on no matter what! even if the mob is green =/. Any solutions coming soon? Or should I reroll as a caster?

[Glam]

I am also having many issues as a rogue. I get trampled on no matter what! even if the mob is green =/. Any solutions coming soon? Or should I reroll as a caster?

All melee should reroll caster to speed up this issue or server will have no one playing hybrid/tank.

[darnzen]

Have a lvl 22 war ~ 950 hp, kind of crappy ac (ringmail mostly). Descent weapons (Jambiya + PGT, also Obsidian Flamberge). I also played a war on live in 1999. My opinions on the matter:

1. My hit %, crit %, proc rate, all seem to match what I had on live, at least since "fix"

2. Mobs beat the poo outta me, and rarely miss. In the original game it felt like if you fought mobs of same class & level (goblin warrior for instance), it was a very even match at least low to mid-levels (< 30). It would basically come down to luck on who would win. On the project 1999 server, there is zero chance the PC would win after level 10 or so. It seems mobs can use abilities MUCH more often (2x?) than players. Their hit rate and damage much higher as well.

3. Taunt is still broken. Possibly because pets and spellcasters significantly out damage warriors, but I can't keep aggro even from monks / rogues. On live, it was tricky, especially end game because the damage difference was huge, and you needed to make up for it with hate proc weapons. It was also tricky when fighting yellow or red cons. But I can't keep mobs on me fighting greens, light blues, etc. Early game I wrote it off to low taunt skill, but at level 23, with taunt maxed, I still feel gimped. Basically there's almost no point to having a warrior in the group if they can't do damage, and they can't hold agro. Right now it is virtually impossible to pull a mob off a chanter or healer.

[entilza]

Classic was all about being careful about mob agro thats what was awesome, so far I have seen the action of mobs quite good.

Everyone will soon learn not to over agro a mob too early etc.. I think people will re-learn slowly.

Plus warriors aren't running around twinked with super weapons so thats a big difference as well.

Also sometimes casters when you get your new spell line you don't need to use your super new spell right away to cause super agro.. Sometimes the magic is overpowered for the level range at the time.

[President]

So I noticed something yesterday when playing but I don't know if it was coincidence or what.

I'm level 19, fighting in Mistmoore, and my dual wield/double attacks are few and far between. Although my DPS isn't as bad as it was before the fix, it wasn't happening often.

I ding 20, and my skills start to go over 100. I'm getting to 102/103/104 and my double attack/dual wield start going crazy. I'm literally smacking the mob 4 times every 30ish seconds when I had rarely seen it once a fight before hand.

I dunno if 100 skill is some "hump" or what, but I definitely noticed a difference.

[Skeletonya]

Just my 2 copper...

It may not be classic to say, boost some of the classes in Project 1999 to make them generally balanced and playable, but it still the fair thing to do.

I see no reason not to balance them.

1. More class balance will allow more class diversity
2. Class diversity will mean more class specific drops for everyone. ( I.e. if everyone is a caster, theres a ton of competition for caster loot. )
3. Sony should have done it themselves, but were lazy as hell, and clearly didnt care.

[Naerron]

i have a lvl 17 twink warrior, has 750 HP unbuffed, two obsid shards and about 400 AC. here is my 2 cp.

First off, AC does NOTHING. It sucks, even on my 37 mage, i can get destroyed by greens because dodge and AC does nothing. At around lvl 30 i thought i'd go own up CB, oddly enough i send my pet in to kill a lego in TR and the whole room agros me, which is weird as hell. Then my pet gets owned, then i get owned at lvl 30 in crush bone, i blushed so hard all the way back to my corpse. BUt lvl 12ish greens should not be hitting a lvl 30 for max dmg over and over again, or even really hitting him at all. i know there are many emu severs with this problem, also i know that SoA ( Scars of Amerous) has working AC.

Second. I seem to be able to solo yellows and whites fine when im procing a ton and can keep soloing with bind wound, however every once in ahwile a mob will just kick my ass, i will be 100% health and almost die.

THird) while im tanking i notice mobs hitting for max nearly every time, also i notice my warrior hitting for max way more than he should.

[sever]

I tested just how low of a mob will start max hitting and landing frequent attacks on me (50 war/800ac). I started with blackburrow and things were normal there. My combat log was full of their misses/my dodges/parries/ripostes. I then moved to south karana since there's a wide variety there and I thought i'd crack Quillmane. I started with the level 20ish Bull Elephants and they were fine.

I then tried a level 30ish cyclops and he broke the system again. He was green, and hit for 63 every other hit, rarely missing. I figured it was the high str value of giants that did it, and so I moved on to a werewolf. He hit for 40s every other hit, and had incredible accuracy.

While tanks may take enough damage to make the game difficult (meaning you need solid healers to keep the tough camps going) there's still a loop in how well ac scales, and how well you avoid attacks. Adding a number of great gear pieces seems to do next to nothing to your benefit (and in classic, gear gets better very slowly).

My beef? The 49 pets tank better, and charmed enchanter pets tank far better. While you're probably looking at ac/avoidance scaling right now, these 2 should also be looked at, as it eliminates the need for a tank in a lot of current high level areas.

[sever]

I'd also like to add that some high level mobs are hitting for more than they should be. There are allakhazam threads that have mob damage values, for example:

- Imps in Solb by efreeti had a max of 122 (level 48 imp), while currently the the 43 imp hits for 134 and the 48 imp hits for 144

- LGuk:
-- Lord has a max of 125 (allakhazam lists it right on his info page) Currently he's hitting for mid 140s
-- Frenzied/BT Ghouls are supposed to hit for 120s as they did in classic, not the 129-13x now
-- Every ghoul from dar (melee)/kor(wizard) lines on up (39-42 or something), their damage doubles from their Zol cousin (Zol being something like 35-39, hits appropriately for 7x depending on level). Right now, Dar's are hitting for 129-13x and it just goes up. Kor wizards start at 122. That's as much as classic Lord. Boks/Guks/Jins are 13x-14x.
-- I don't know about live side frogs of similar levels, since I heard near King, the mobs ignore walls ><

This is all I've noticed so far. Challenging and exciting it may be, it makes tanks weaker and enchanters stronger (charm).

[stormlord]

Wish I could go back in time and see what it was like on my ranger the first few months, but I just plum do not remember. Darn. I do remember equippping leather helped me to stay alive longer in blackburrow. Old EQ was brutal for soloers. I think that the reason people kited, including rangers, was because mobs must have hit hard, but I just do -not- remember.

Someone here said they're fairly well equipped. Are you equippped in gear that you got, or is it gear you've bought from a higher level? Even then, I wouldn't expect you to do well on your own. Classic EQ wasn't friendly if you weren't in a group except for a couple classes :/ 2 rangers is better than 1 if 1 can't kill it, lol.

Overall, it looks like progression on this server will take a while. It will mean making a lot of alts, lol. Shamans, chanters, clerics, etc.

[guineapig]

Soft Caps
Cloth..........= ~75 worn AC (yes its really that low)
Leather......= ~100 worn AC
Monk..........= ~120 worn AC (if they are under 15 stone wieght)
Chain.........= ~200 worn AC
Plate .........= ~300 worn AC

Has anyone checked to see if maybe the soft caps are screwed up in the code?
That would explain the diminishing returns of AC on tanks being off.

[stormlord]

I can't believe this hasn't already been brought up, but here goes;

Our hit rate was recently fixed, and this is good, it was done, and done well, we melee classes are grateful for it. Having said this, please read on.

Melee classes are BUGGED. Whether it's our AC, defensive skills, or the mobs' we're fighting and their extremely high hit rates/max damage hits.

I have been speaking with other melee classes, and every one of them agrees, something is not right. The point of this post, is to have this issue recognized, for I have not seen any inclination on these boards, on IRC, or in game from any GMs or developers. I am aware, and appreciate that there is much work to be done, and the developers are simply swamped, but this is a big issue for melee players on the server.

There is a pretty obvious reason that melee classes are so rare on Project 1999, most have rerolled to casting classes - and I don't blame them.

If you are a melee class, or any class who has noticed these issues, and would like something to be done about them, please post your experiences on this thread. This thread IS meant to raise awareness of these issues, but also to lend a helping hand to developers, by narrowing down some of the many bugs we are facing.

We don't want to be any better than we were in classic, we just want to be the SAME as we were in classic.

Please post your thoughts and comments.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention endurance loss - which is a HUGE problem with 2h weapons, and heavier 1h weapons. The endurance penalty for attack speed is massive, and this high amount of endurance loss was definitely not present in classic. Please consider this one of our issues.

I'm not tryin to be offensive or inflammatory, but another reason people might not play melee classes is because they're not great at soloing. On a server this small, as opposed to the thousands that played when eq was launched, you would expect a lot of people to not play warrior/monk/rogue/etc.

In another thread there's a comment about a post someone made a long time ago. In it it's shown that if a warrior and a monk had the same ac, that a warrior would get hit for less damage, but a monk would get hit less yet get hit for max damage (more often because warriors have more damage absorption ac).

Not to discount the notion that there might be a problem. There indeed might be, but that might not be why people don't play melee classes. In other words, even if melee classes were fixed this does not mean people will play them.

[Villert]

I'm not tryin to be offensive or inflammatory, but another reason people might not play melee classes is because they're not great at soloing. On a server this small, as opposed to the thousands that played when eq was launched, you would expect a lot of people to not play warrior/monk/rogue/etc.

Not to discount the notion that there might be a problem. There indeed might be, but that might not be why people don't play melee classes. In other words, even if melee classes were fixed this does not mean people will play them.

O rly?

Mate, have you been reading this thread or what? This forum is chalk full of posts about people quitting or rerolling their melees because they aren't functioning properly - not because they can't solo.

In other words, even if melee classes were fixed this does not mean people will play them.

I... don't even know how to respond to you here, your comment has nothing to do with, well, anything that we're discussing. There are tons of people who want to play melee, but don't because they're broken.

In another thread there's a comment about a post someone made a long time ago. In it it's shown that if a warrior and a monk had the same ac, that a warrior would get hit for less damage, but a monk would get hit less yet get hit for max damage (more often because warriors have more damage absorption ac).

What you're talking about is mitigation. On this server, yes, that is the way it's supposed to function. Warriors should get hit more, but for less damage - monks should get hit less but for more damage.

The fact is, that doesn't happen - Both monks and warriors get hit 95% of the time, and for MAX damage.

Monk mitigation wasn't actually nerfed until Luclin, by the way, so if we were being truly classic, mitigation wouldn't make much of a difference. (This was changed due to monks being obviously OPed in Velious). Of course, this server is run on the Titanium client, which is post Luclin, and it goes without saying that the client itself cannot be altered, which means this can't be changed.

I'm also not sure what your point was for this comment, as it doesn't really refer to anything at all.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk or anything with my responses - I'm just tired of the whole, "there's nothing wrong, or personally I don't care if there is" attitude some players have about this.

[SirSpankAlot360]

Yeah, I agree with Villert. I am trying not to pull my hair out when playing my warrior but I seem practically useless in a group. I want to stick with it though because there are way too many casters and I am hoping all the bugs with melee will be fixed soon.

[Somekid123]

Everything in this thread is just people going back and forth, same with ooc in game. Can we get an officials word whether anything is being looked into as a possible fix?

[girth]

They know its a problem but nobody knows how to fix it, or they aren't willing too because they aren't playing melee.

[Uaellaen]

wonder if this is fixed sometime? its realy mana intensive to keep melee's up with that high max hit rates and no dodge and whatsoever ><

im a cleric and this feels all too fishy for me :p i have always been medding alot .. but i cant even stun or cast anything else since i need every last drop of mana to not let the melee's die ..

[Morndenkainen]

So I noticed something yesterday when playing but I don't know if it was coincidence or what.

I'm level 19, fighting in Mistmoore, and my dual wield/double attacks are few and far between. Although my DPS isn't as bad as it was before the fix, it wasn't happening often.

I ding 20, and my skills start to go over 100. I'm getting to 102/103/104 and my double attack/dual wield start going crazy. I'm literally smacking the mob 4 times every 30ish seconds when I had rarely seen it once a fight before hand.

I dunno if 100 skill is some "hump" or what, but I definitely noticed a difference.

I'd like to thank you for this post from a while ago Prez, it does seem that if there is an actual "hump", it validates the points in my thread... You are actually responsible for the post that might just prove it, and get it looked at and fixed afterall.

[Malrubius]

Interesting thread. I never noticed it months back when it was active.

Is this still bugged? I never played a melee in classic, and am trying one here. Were the above problems patched at some point or has there been any change?

[Morndenkainen]

Dunno if the getting hit part is, I never really paid that much attention to it, but I know the hitting part isnt what I remember it being. Watch it though, if you post about not being able to hit thing, you'll be accused of "QQQQQQQQQQQQQQ" and the like.. Apparently some people feel that the skill hump was a "classic" feature...

[Aeolwind]

Yeah, most of the melee issues have been resolved. This thread dates back to almost release.

[Malrubius]

Yeah, most of the melee issues have been resolved. This thread dates back to almost release.

Cool, thanks. Having a blast with my ugly SK troll :)

[Morndenkainen]

Yeah, most of the melee issues have been resolved. This thread dates back to almost release.

Just out of curiosity, was it agreed upon by the dev team that a skill "hump" in melee skills near the 100 point (Level 20) mark was a feature of classic?



(Sigh, lets see if the flamers follow me here too...)

[President]

Just out of curiosity, was it agreed upon by the dev team that a skill "hump" in melee skills near the 100 point (Level 20) mark was a feature of classic?



(Sigh, lets see if the flamers follow me here too...)


I find it funny that you have continually flamed me and challenged my intelligence but now you take my post as fact that there is a "hump."

[Desert]

Just out of curiosity, was it agreed upon by the dev team that a skill "hump" in melee skills near the 100 point (Level 20) mark was a feature of classic?



(Sigh, lets see if the flamers follow me here too...)

Your question in this thread was well phrased and it didn't look like a 6 year old playing an Ad-Lib, why would I flame?