Noob Monk Pulling woes

[EQBallzz]

Looking to get some advice on pulling. I have been tasked with pulling on some Kael Arena raids but getting utterly clobbered on some pulls. Initially, I only had worthless NPC bought stars which meant I was having to body pull everything. That wasn't helping. I have since gotten Thurgadin bracers so have summoned stars with a longer range which helps. I have *some* javs but still don't have a consistent supply of those to the point that I can use them freely so trying to make due with my 100 range stars for now.

My biggest problem seems to be pulling the cleric house. Those casters just tear me to shreds and of course interrupt FD. I am able to pull/split them but take a lot of dmg in the process and die probably more than I should.

I know two potential weak points are my level (53) and my un-buffed MR (only 47). I am constantly dispelled so I typically have no buffs, get rooted, nuked etc..I'm just wondering if anyone has any insight into how I can take less dmg and what may help me to sustain these pulls better. Is my level just too low? Is my MR too low? Do I just need to use javs 100% of the time to keep my range at max?

In a related thread..what monk friendly items can I look for to boost my MR that are not expensive or hard to attain? For "resist" gear I have 3 pieces of Thurgadin armor (legs, bracers, arms) which all have some resists, earring of essence (10 MR) and I could wear a white gold necklace (7MR/CR/FR) but also want to make sure I keep my weight down.

Thanks for any input other than "you suck"!

[GinnasP99]

You're starting to get to the point where it really pays to have holgresh elder beads. I know if you don't have beads that's probably not what you want to hear. There is the more inventory intensive player made stalking probe. While these are not as good as beads, they will let you get the initial split done so that you can have the spawns staggered from that point on. If you carry say, 6 stalking probes thats 30 charges of eye of zomm. Keep one in the bank for recharging. Good luck

[rubicaant]

Low level is definitely a factor, and for MR get the platinum jacinth wedding rings, blue diamond bracers, and the mr neck. The biggest help will definitely be beads though. You can lure out casters from our of line of sight, and tag them once they turn to go back. If that is completely out of your range of funds, I suggest getting to a higher level to survive some hits.

[EQBallzz]

Thanks for the responses. I am aware of the beads option but I'm more interested in pulling the old fashioned way (at least for now). Not saying I would never use them if I had them but I feel like having solid pulling skills without them first is more fun/important. It's one of the main reasons I picked monk. Using the inherent monk skills to split mobs is fun/challenging. I won't say beads are cheating but it looks to completely change the dynamic of what is possible with the monk's inherent skills. I have no plat so can't afford something like that even if I wanted it. :p

I'm almost 54 so I guess I will see if another level helps. Will also work on more MR gear as I can afford it.

[Caiu]

Basic clickies like your epic and Bracer of the Hidden will help with the being buffless thing.

[EQBallzz]

Basic clickies like your epic and Bracer of the Hidden will help with the being buffless thing.

Yeah, sorta lacking in clickies also. Only have jboots so useless indoors. Guess I need to go farm Grachnist again. Curious, tho..what is the likelihood that dispel actually dispels starting from first slot? My understanding of how it works is that it normally dispels starting at first slot but can more rarely dispel farther down your buff list randomly. What I have observed seems much more random..especially with multi buff dispels.

So if it frequently skips your first slots it seems like clickies would be less useful? Not sure if what I'm seeing now is the same as what happened on live. I seem to remember it more frequently dispelled in order on live but my memory is fuzzy.

[Raev]

It's about to get harder too, when Sneak no longer clears FD memory.

Pulling with 47 MR is simply bad. Even at L60/200+ MR I regularly get rooted. Get levels, MR gear, clickies, flowers, etc.

Javs are totally worth it because it's much easier to get around the corner before you are cast on. Try putting spell casting to a separate window so you can see when you are clean to FD. Once you are around the corner and clean, FD, sneak, and stand when all but one have turned around. ezpz

[EQBallzz]

It's about to get harder too, when Sneak no longer clears FD memory.

Pulling with 47 MR is simply bad. Even at L60/200+ MR I regularly get rooted. Get levels, MR gear, clickies, flowers, etc.

Javs are totally worth it because it's much easier to get around the corner before you are cast on. Try putting spell casting to a separate window so you can see when you are clean to FD. Once you are around the corner and clean, FD, sneak, and stand when all but one have turned around. ezpz

Yeah, I kinda figured the low MR and level was my weakest point. I have limited funds and time so it's a bit painful improving both of those with any speed. I already have casting in a separate window and use corners/sneak etc..This is why I have usually deferred pulling to other monks with more levels/gear but when they leave I get thrown to the wolves!

Seems like I just need to get more levels and MR like I suspected. May have to start blacksmithing to feed my jav diet. More range might be a good stop gap measure to keep me alive in the meantime.

Thanks for the input all.

[fiveeauxfour]

Wurm scale coat is good for shoulder slot. Get together with a shaman for +6 neck from WW. Get MR jewelry from EC. Farm tranix for tcrown / circlet of the falinkin. Dragon hero bracer. Robe of the whistling fists

I make my own javs and it bascially only costs time to make, its definitely not as expensive as in EC. As said before, low MR coupled with your low level means spells stick basically every time, this means more roots and more dmg. Dispells will always land so keep that in mind moving forward about pulling with reduced buffs.


One thing that I have in my UI is a separate window for spell casts and other misc items. This allows me to monitor spell casts to time my FD's. Also, when a mob is casting on you, its not always the worst idea to FD as the other mobs will stop running at you. While the spell is being cast, your FD timer is ticking down. This can provide you a new window to FD into as it reduces the chance of persistent casting by multiple mobs.


During jav flight time, you can get LoS and prevent initial casting.

Hold your right mouse down and use A and W together to strafe run. Use jump too for additional movement increase.

As mentioned before, use the sneak memblur trick although devs said they were going to change this in the future. Who knows when this will occur and how this will effect monk population.

Stonestance is still amazing in this expansion for pulling. Use it often!

[fiveeauxfour]

Guess I need to go farm Grachnist again.

Dont do this, as the click does not stack with epic. Go to LOIO and farm the sarnak fort. The lego's can drop the bracer of the hidden. Epic and BoH = 2 clickies and it's a very good start.

Curious, tho..what is the likelihood that dispel actually dispels starting from first slot? My understanding of how it works is that it normally dispels starting at first slot but can more rarely dispel farther down your buff list randomly. What I have observed seems much more random..especially with multi buff dispels.

So if it frequently skips your first slots it seems like clickies would be less useful? Not sure if what I'm seeing now is the same as what happened on live. I seem to remember it more frequently dispelled in order on live but my memory is fuzzy.

Usually it does dispell from the top, you should go into encounters with this framework. That being said, higher level dispells strip more buffs not always from the top slot. Sometimes it seems it can be the most recent clicky, the most recent buff, or the buff with the highest counter. Generally speaking, you will be alright with a couple junks at the top; it becomes high priority to rejunk when you get dispelled-- even during a pull!

[Zarcath]

Casters will always be difficult, especially groups of them. Sometimes you're just going to eat shit. You should keep particles on for NPCs (just lower the density) and you can keep tabs on which ones are casting on you. Sometimes casting window won't pick up their starts if you're too far away from them.

Making Javs is cheap, only need about 60 BS? to make them. I try to keep 4-6 stacks on me.

I would still get a Grachnist earring but I wouldn't pay for one. Like Florid said, epic will overwrite it, but I personally prefer having a static junk buff in my top slot that I don't have to think about while i'm pulling. It's not a problem to reapply it if you epic click.

[MiRo2]

Making Javs is cheap, only need about 60 BS? to make them. I try to keep 4-6 stacks on me.

I make my own javs and it bascially only costs time to make, its definitely not as expensive as in EC.

Also costs less than 100pp and about an hour to get your skill to trivial to making them.

[mev]

Folks have put a lot of good info in this thread already. If you want a one stop shop for tips like these, check out my guide (http://wiki.project1999.com/Meviin%27s_Monk_Mechanics) if you haven't already. It has details on stuff like stacking buffs to deal with dispels, making javelins, clearing aggro with casters instantly when they're casting on you, strafe running, gear suggestions, and more.

For your scenario specifically, the single most important thing you can do to be a better puller right now is get more levels. Yes, this will take time, but it's also the thing that you should be spending your time on. Since raids (and Velious zones in general) usually aren't a good way to get exp, it would be higher impact in the long run if you sat out of a few raids to level up and started raiding again at 60. (To be clear, I'm not saying that making a beeline to level 60 would be the most fun solution, and EQ is a game. So, raid if you want to, but it's not the optimal solution to your problem).

Your next priority should be getting your epic. This will give you lots of MR, a junk buff, and more push for casters. Plus, getting your epic is fun!

After that, you can worry more seriously about gearing up, getting clickies, getting elder beads, etc. Gear would help in the mean time, but honestly, the time it takes to farm up money for serious gear upgrades isn't worth it when you can get more impact out of getting levels (though cheap gear like the resist necklace from LGuk or a Mantle of Absorption might still be worth it in the short term).

[Vdub]

It's about to get harder too, when Sneak no longer clears FD memory.


Do you have anymore info on this? I have been trying to find a source that states this will be changing.

[Phantasm]

Do you have anymore info on this? I have been trying to find a source that states this will be changing.

I think he meant the implications in this thread Vdub http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260642&page=5

[Vdub]

I think he meant the implications in this thread Vdub http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260642&page=5

Thank you.

[Victorio]

Level up. Get MR gear. Use strafe running or zone out for SoW.

[EQBallzz]

Ok, so answers so far to my issues/questions has mostly been get more levels and resist gear. Currently working on that.

In light of the new monk changes..do any pulling pros have any suggestions/infos on splitting techniques to use now that sneak is no longer an option? I didn't main a monk on live so I have little experience doing much pulling outside of what I have experienced on P99 so far.

I do recall monks on live having to clear messy pull aggro on raids sometimes with /q but I'm just wondering what other splitting techniques can be utilized now in lieu of sneak or do you have to use multiple pullers now to split mobs effectively? I seem to recall LOS working better on live to split but not sure if that works the same here on P99 without sneak (or even if I'm remembering that correctly).

[Caiu]

http://youngsdojo.tripod.com/Pulling.html

This has helped me a bit since the patch. I'm still relearning everything I know so not a lot other to add.

[EQBallzz]

http://youngsdojo.tripod.com/Pulling.html

This has helped me a bit since the patch. I'm still relearning everything I know so not a lot other to add.

Thanks for that link. I knew some of that..knew of some of it and some I didn't know. Some interesting techniques for sure but It seems much of that has too many moving parts to be that practical unless you can just do them with amazing skill and precision it seems like it would take too long and require much trial and error.

I get the feeling chain tagging is going to be the most practical pulling method now. I have worked with a rogue in the past who peeled off mobs from me in Kael and that seemed to work well..haven't tried it with the new mechanics, however. Going to be much tougher now with increased social aggro to get mob separation.

[EdTuBrutus]

Thanks for that link. I knew some of that..knew of some of it and some I didn't know. Some interesting techniques for sure but It seems much of that has too many moving parts to be that practical unless you can just do them with amazing skill and precision it seems like it would take too long and require much trial and error.

I get the feeling chain tagging is going to be the most practical pulling method now. I have worked with a rogue in the past who peeled off mobs from me in Kael and that seemed to work well..haven't tried it with the new mechanics, however. Going to be much tougher now with increased social aggro to get mob separation.

It's worse than just relying on the mobs pathing back at a large enough interval.

You also need all the mobs to mem blur on feign and currently, P99 has a much lower chance of this than ever existed on Live.

[awfal]

It's worse than just relying on the mobs pathing back at a large enough interval.

You also need all the mobs to mem blur on feign and currently, P99 has a much lower chance of this than ever existed on Live.

On live static mobs mem blurred 100% of the time once they reset to their spawn point, and roaming mobs had a lower chance to memblur; this doesn't seem to be the case since the patch. The way it is now on p99 you can aggro a static mob, let it reset to its spawn point, stand up, and it will still have aggro which is completely not classic.

[EQBallzz]

It's worse than just relying on the mobs pathing back at a large enough interval.

You also need all the mobs to mem blur on feign and currently, P99 has a much lower chance of this than ever existed on Live.

Wouldn't that only be true if just the monk was trying to split? If the monk pulls and uses FD and another person (another monk or rogue) that is using sneak/hide/FD to be in position to tag one of the mobs when they are far enough away from the other mobs..they should be able to split since they are not on all the hate lists of every mob. Or is there something I'm missing? I guess if the social aggro change is so severe that you can never practically get them far enough apart this wouldn't work but that would be pretty stupid.

On live static mobs mem blurred 100% of the time once they reset to their spawn point, and roaming mobs had a lower chance to memblur; this doesn't seem to be the case since the patch. The way it is now on p99 you can aggro a static mob, let it reset to its spawn point, stand up, and it will still have aggro which is completely not classic.

Wow. If that is the case...FD is completely broken. I hope that gets fixed soon. :eek:

[Baler]

On live static mobs mem blurred 100% of the time once they reset to their spawn point, and roaming mobs had a lower chance to memblur; this doesn't seem to be the case since the patch. The way it is now on p99 you can aggro a static mob, let it reset to its spawn point, stand up, and it will still have aggro which is completely not classic.

proof? If there is already proof posted on the forums can you just link that thread please.
Otherwise please provide proof.

I recall reading someone mention that spawn point business. So I'm not trying to be a jerk and call you out or anything. I'm sincerely curious.

[awfal]

proof? If there is already proof posted on the forums can you just link that thread please.
Otherwise please provide proof.

I recall reading someone mention that spawn point business. So I'm not trying to be a jerk and call you out or anything. I'm sincerely curious.

It's true, static spawns would memblur once they returned to their spawn point, whereas roaming mobs had a low % chance to blur, that's why during pulls involving roaming mobs monks had to /q to be sure they dropped aggro. Oppositely, with pulls involving static mobs the monks could wait until the mobs returned to their spawn point to blur or they received the 2 min message "enemies have forgotten you".

There's plenty of proof out there if you look for it. Here's a post (#3 on it from 2006):

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=1&mid=1144949709181023154

Anyhow, the sneak changes are fine as the way sneak memblurred on p99 was not classic. Pulling with the way the mechanics are now is still easily doable, it will just require multiple people involved, eg. monk 1 aggros group of mobs, monk 2 aggros target to pull it out of the pack, monk 3 tags dragon and brings to raid, monk 1/2 fd & /q.

FWIW, during Velious era on live Holgresh Elder Beads used to single pull the mob that killed your Eye of Zomm without having to split anything, but I doubt you'll find any notes about that anywhere :)

[EdTuBrutus]

Wouldn't that only be true if just the monk was trying to split? If the monk pulls and uses FD and another person (another monk or rogue) that is using sneak/hide/FD to be in position to tag one of the mobs when they are far enough away from the other mobs..they should be able to split since they are not on all the hate lists of every mob. Or is there something I'm missing? I guess if the social aggro change is so severe that you can never practically get them far enough apart this wouldn't work but that would be pretty stupid.

Well, I'm not talking about pulling Raid mobs - generally speaking you don't use Feign pulling and/or Monks to pull raid mobs other than a couple of specific examples). I'm talking about the main practical use of feign pulling - in groups. On Live this had its challenges but was generally fair, its not going to work here with the current feign mem blur % chance.

Sure, every group can have 2 monks (or Monk and SK) but you've even further reduced the ability of, say Wizards and Rangers and Druids of ever getting grouped and even more locked down the groups people "want" to be part of.

[Zarcath]

It's true, static spawns would memblur once they returned to their spawn point, whereas roaming mobs had a low % chance to blur, that's why during pulls involving roaming mobs monks had to /q to be sure they dropped aggro. Oppositely, with pulls involving static mobs the monks could wait until the mobs returned to their spawn point to blur or they received the 2 min message "enemies have forgotten you".

I just got to pull with the new patch and was going to comment about this as well. Mobs on Live would drop their hate list as soon as they returned to their spawn position. As soon as they return to their spot and turn back into position you could stand up and resume pulling. Last night i had two notable instances.

*I had aggro'd both dogs on KC bridge and FD'd further up, when they both returned to their spot I stood up and they aggro'd me immediately (at that range I would have had to sit to aggro them).

*I split a sentry and a caller, FD'd after the caller cast his spell, sentry was in camp. I can see the caller's shadow through the wall, so when he was back at his spawn position and not moving, I stood up. he instantly aggro'd me.

The mem blur on return to spawn point is how it is on Live, but I don't know if it was always that way or it was implemented at some later date. I'll have to dig around.