@Sirken "a fair and legitimate chance at that target"

[saujee]

All Temple of Veeshan raid targets as well as King Tormax / Statue, are now foot race FTEs from the zone lines. If your guild gets FTE on a target, then your guild will be given a 60minute grace period to engage and kill the mob, allowing them a fair and legitimate chance at that target.

Greetings Everyone. If it is the same top 2 guilds constantly winning races to these targets who have accumulated all the best racers on the server for example aftermath and awakened.
How will other guilds who have the force to kill these targets get a fair and legitimate chance at that these targets if they are constantly getting beat by Usain Bolt?

Is there another way around this other than racing to give other guilds a fair and legitimate chance at these target and get a piece of end game bosses without having to race? Like a fixed rotation and failure to kill with a certain amount of time will make that boss FFA or go down to the next guild on list?

The foundation of this server is to re live our EQ live memories and end game seems to be dominated/controlled by 2 big guilds at the moment.

This game will not go any further than Velious and the Top guilds will not proceed to Luclin. They will continue getting stronger and dominating the races, leaving the up and coming guilds with a very low chance at these targets. Resulting in making them even more stronger by just joining their guild.


Should I stop and just join them?

[xKoopa]

It used to be mob popped, coth, fte, and inc to camp within 30 secs of spawn

Now you can race then take an hour to kill your mob yet people still want it made easier :confused:

[SoekiWiz]

All Temple of Veeshan raid targets as well as King Tormax / Statue, are now foot race FTEs from the zone lines. If your guild gets FTE on a target, then your guild will be given a 60minute grace period to engage and kill the mob, allowing them a fair and legitimate chance at that target.

Making sense so far.

Greetings Everyone. If it is the same top 2 guilds constantly winning races to these targets who have accumulated all the best racers on the server for example aftermath and awakened.

In agreement on how this would make sense. The most seasoned players with the most experience in the arena of "FTE'ing" are predominantly in these two guilds.

How will other guilds who have the force to kill these targets get a fair and legitimate chance at that these targets if they are constantly getting beat by Usain Bolt?

Do what the others did. Practice, and keep doing it. There are practice servers you can do this on. This is where it begins to sound like you want to sign up for the Olympics without qualifying, then would like to walk away with a medal.

Is there another way around this other than racing to give other guilds a fair and legitimate chance at these target and get a piece of end game bosses without having to race? Like a fixed rotation and failure to kill with a certain amount of time will make that boss FFA or go down to the next guild on list?

Here's where it derails and 95% of the pending flame wars in this thread will come from.

The foundation of this server is to re live our EQ live memories and end game seems to be dominated/controlled by 2 big guilds at the moment.

Where did you play? I'm from Quellious, where Vis Maior, Lotus Cult, and Wraith were the competing entities. Swapping back and forth from FFA to rotations on things like NToV based on the temperature of the relationships between the guilds.

Should I stop and just join them?

That's your call sir! I can tell you that when I wanted to raid back on Quellious, I left my beloved <Denizens of Shez'Baernon> to join the ranks of <Vis Maior> as they were the baddest mo'fuckas on the server.

I can also tell you that I never walked around with my <Denizens> tag on expecting to be given a spot in any form of rotation. When I wanted to raid, I joined the raiding guild.

That's the biggest difference of my recollection of "the good old days" versus the foot stomping and breath holding we seem to be cultivating. (That's directed at the server as a whole, not yourself good sir).

*shrug*

I'm bored at work :P

[kotton05]

Wow just wow delete this plz. Other guilds get mobs a lot and the one hour rule gives CSG or the likes there of a reasonable amount of time to kill. Just because a/a claim to have veteran racers doesn't mean shit.

Gimp and I was the only ones on the line for statue once 2 vs 30+ a/a and we won. Snacks continues to casually get ftes in ToV along with a few others. Come on now. The alternative means you will see 0 mobs I repeat you will not get a single one. The current rule set favors the casual. Now move along.

Ps. You have no clue how it was in kunark. You'd be thankful it is how it is now if you did.

[saujee]

It used to be mob popped, coth, fte, and inc to camp within 30 secs of spawn

Now you can race then take an hour to kill your mob yet people still want it made easier :confused:

Well it depends on how we define easier.

Is it easier to join and win that FTE in the top guilds with Usain Bolts or is it easier to build a guild out of nothing and get all players geared up to take on these bosses which takes months and hours of commitment. Only to be denied by the same Top Guilds who are more than capable of winning all races due to having the best geared (advantage) and most hardocore players (advantage) at their disposal?

Apologies for the sensitive subject.
This is a great game and all but do I really have to join these guilds just to get some end game content? And abandon my guild? Who I believe are more than capable of killing these targets. But we just do not have Usain Bolt on our side to win races.

The whole point of this is. Is there an alternative to racing?

[Ravager]

Sounds like Phinigel may be the right server for you. Come on over. Anyone who reads this I can help you with some starter weapons and stuff just PM me.

#notmyserver

Pretty much this. If you want to raid, you won't find a fun or classic experience of it on P99. There's no shame in getting your raiding fix someplace else. Hell, there's no reason a person can't simultaneously box P99 for classic level grind and Phinny for raiding.

[kotton05]

Everyone is equal man. All it takes is one alert person and one tracker that's alert. Trust me a/a don't have professional runners anymore than csg(well I mean awakened was cheating but that's another story.) they just have more willing bodies to throw at an fte race.

What guild are you? I'd gladly help fill you in on tips if you want to pm me.

The alternative is the worst, Coth ducking mages with instant pulls, the epitome of hell on p99 imo.

[saujee]

The Current Top Guilds are great at what they do. No doubt about that and respect to them. I understand all these rules are made for classic. But classic did not stay in Velious. It continued forward. These top guilds in p1999 would be in PoP by now and the upcoming guilds will be taking their shots at end game Velious vs other Guilds similar to their Strength in progress.
So Technically it would be harder to win races in p1999 than it was in live.

If the GM's are happy with how end game raiding works then that its ok because is their game.

I was just wondering if there was an alternative to allowing all guilds a fair and legitimate chance at those target vs guilds in full BiS Gear who require less numbers and less organising due to less numbers needed to kill targets and win coth races. They will always have a head start vs guilds who are less equipped.

Have a nice day everyone. See you all in game.

[xKoopa]

The Current Top Guilds are great at what they do. No doubt about that and respect to them. I understand all these rules are made for classic. But classic did not stay in Velious. It continued forward. These top guilds in p1999 would be in PoP by now and the upcoming guilds will be taking their shots at end game Velious vs other Guilds similar to their Strength in progress.
So Technically it would be harder to win races in p1999 than it was in live.

Have a nice day everyone. See you all in game.

These rules were made during velious FOR casuals. These rules make it easier to compete as a casual guild

Literally, mobs would pop and pull would be happening in 30 secs before these rules. Thats what made it impossible for casuals to compete since you need 40+ ppl to instantly log in when the mob spawns

[getsome]

I think the rules made it easier for top guilds. 99% assured an FTE results in a kill now.

before it was not that way.

[Danth]

If you want your pixels, there's nothing stopping you from spending a tour of duty in one of the "A" guilds. Both those guilds get pixels and neither of them could be described as exclusive. They can't afford to be exclusive because they continually need to recruit people to replace personnel losses due to burnout. Spend six months or whatever getting a decent quantity of high-end pixels, then jump back down to whatever second- or third-rate guild you came from if that's what floats your boat. I don't see a lot of this in practice because most the folks who creep up to the high end tend to develop the Pixel Sickness in a bad way and end up pushing ("I really need that 3rd alt decked out!") till they burn out completely and quit (meaning in many cases they never really use those pixels they worked so hard for), but it's certainly possible.

If you want to experience the raid content, do so someplace else. None of the top guilds or potential contenders on P1999 have serious interest in doing that. It's just about the pixels. Stick a second-tier guild in North Temple Veeshan with no competition and it's the same, they just pull to the zone-in or some other similar location anyway. Nobody crawls through the entire thing.

Danth

[Twochain]

Where are the practice servers?

[Erati]

Where are the practice servers?

http://www.eqemulator.org/

make one.

[getsome]

If you want to experience the raid content, do so someplace else. None of the top guilds or potential contenders on P1999 have serious interest in doing that. It's just about the pixels. Stick a second-tier guild in North Temple Veeshan with no competition and it's the same, they just pull to the zone-in or some other similar location anyway. Nobody crawls through the entire thing.

wrong

we crawled to arry pit last week, and plan to crawl to pom soon.

http://i.imgur.com/mSRWeCV.png

http://i.imgur.com/ZDtL7Ia.png

http://i.imgur.com/KO8Iege.png

[Legday]

Spend six months or whatever getting a decent quantity of high-end pixels, then jump back down to whatever second- or third-rate guild you came from if that's what floats your boat.

Warning: Stockholm syndrome is real on this server. Don't freak out when you realize we're just more organized and focused versions of the same people you like to play with in your current guild.

[Nommis]

I thought everyone was happy with picking out mobs? Let's keep doing that, works like a charm.

[saujee]

When Awakened got banned It was a breath of fresh to see other guilds get a shot at these targets right? Even Rogean or Sirken was streaming the event + an added earthquake to add to the fun.
That is why I made this thread to see if there is an alternative to be able to see other guilds get a better chance at these targets. It is not just for my own personal gains. But for the server as a whole. See everyone having a good time and just enjoying P1999 end game together without having to leave their respective guilds and join them just to gain access to it or wait for them to get banned.

[Nommis]

I even heard there was a conga line at ToV entrance, so cool! Like REALLY cool.

[SoekiWiz]

Not reading any of these wall of text replies, but to answer your question OP, the best solution is to infiltrate one of he two top guilds with a crew of close friends. Befriend as many people within said guild as possible, paying special attention to court those of considerable talent. Carefully sow seeds of discontent amongst the ranks. When you feel the stage is adequately set, make your move. Incite revolution and either claim your seat as the new crowned leader at the conclusion tear from the guild such a significant portion of their roster that they flounder and eventually drown or at least long enough for your insurrection to come out on top.

You're welcome.

We did that on Quellious too!

And thus, <Explicit> was born. Memorieeeeees

[Danth]

wrong

I don't pay much attention to what Rustle does. They seem to exist somewhat outside the usual hierarchy of P1999 guilds. If you folks do the content properly, good on you.

Danth

[Legday]

When Awakened got banned It was a breath of fresh to see other guilds get a shot at these targets right? Even Rogean or Sirken was streaming the event + an added earthquake to add to the fun.
That is why I made this thread to see if there is an alternative to be able to see other guilds get a better chance at these targets. It is not just for my own personal gains. But for the server as a whole. See everyone having a good time and just enjoying P1999 end game together without having to leave their respective guilds and join them just to gain access to it or wait for them to get banned.

What you are trying to say in way too many words is: Please enforce a rotation.

[Mythanor]

We did that on Quellious too!

And thus, <Explicit> was born. Memorieeeeees

I miss Explicit

[SoekiWiz]

What you are trying to say in way too many words is: Please enforce a rotation.

To which the short, politically incorrect response from the current raiding community is: gfys :cool:

[SoekiWiz]

I miss Explicit

Who are you?! I've been lookin for my Quellious'ers since I got on p99.

Denizzen Squirrelbeater, Mank of VM, reporting for doody.

[RedXIII]

OP your guild sucks. Go to a better one and you will see the end game.

Even CSG kill things these days... Sirken made the server far more casual then it has ever been... if even after those changes your guild cannot get FTE... go to a better one.

If you want it to be even more casual and enforce a rotation like Legday is saying... go Phinny or some other enforced rotation server... Atleast you have a choice on where to go. If p99 becomes enforced rotation there wont be anything different then any of those other welfare easy pixels Quest emulators out there.

[saujee]

What you are trying to say in way too many words is: Please enforce a rotation.

What I am trying to say is, is there another way other than racing.

The top guilds are great. I dont want take anything from them but unfortunately it is like racing vs guilds on steroids atm and the top guilds will always have that advantage and stay on the top leaving lower guilds unable to progress unless the top guild gets banned or they deguild and join them.

[Nexii]

What you are trying to say in way too many words is: Please enforce a rotation.

Edit: And also that all guilds should be equal. They shouldn't be. Hardcore isn't for everyone nor is casual. If you aren't happy in your casual guild then look elsewhere.

[SoekiWiz]

What I am trying to say is, is there another way other than racing.

The top guilds are great. I dont want take anything from them but unfortunately it is like racing vs guilds on steroids atm and the top guilds will always have that advantage and stay on the top leaving lower guilds unable to progress unless the top guild gets banned or they deguild and join them.

Ok ok ok. I am REALLY bored at work, which is why this thread is getting so much of my attention :P

You're not getting it. There are more people on the server than there is content for everyone to do everything they want all the time.

The biggest kids on the playground don't want to share the basketball court with you.

Two options.

1) Join one of the teams
2) Try to get in some play time when they're distracted (killing something else) or taking a break (eating a banhammer sammich)

Yes, they will beat you on racing most of the time.

No, they won't let you play with their toys.

y u no speaka ingrish?!

[Slayde]

Standing on an imaginary line for 8+ hours is now casual. And raiding in p99 is akin to the Olympics. These are mentalities that are eventually going to destory the server. Or we can keep letting people snowball into the same 2 guilds cause its the easiest to be a warmbody. Either way this shit is on the downhill. Lets hope the fabled Custom Content will be worth it. Hell they've added so many GM Quality of Life non-classic amendments at this point we might as well head to Luclin!

[Ravager]

Standing on an imaginary line for 8+ hours is now casual. And raiding in p99 is akin to the Olympics. These are mentalities that are eventually going to destory the server.
This idiocy has been abundant for the entirety of the server's existence (even in the years of 48 hour variance) and it's still going strong after 7 years.

[Nexii]

Everyone is equal man. All it takes is one alert person and one tracker that's alert. Trust me a/a don't have professional runners anymore than csg(well I mean awakened was cheating but that's another story.) they just have more willing bodies to throw at an fte race.

What guild are you? I'd gladly help fill you in on tips if you want to pm me.

The alternative is the worst, Coth ducking mages with instant pulls, the epitome of hell on p99 imo.

Quakes only with no special raid rules would work out the best, I feel. Camp your guild on raid mobs if you want. Use 20 coth mages if you want. If all raid mobs pop at once then one strong guild can't take everything. However better guilds can organize faster and wipe less, so they would down more bosses. Plus it'd mean everyone could have a life rather than sit on a line for 16 hours (or longer as variance expands)

[Fasttimes]

I even heard there was a conga line at ToV entrance, so cool! Like REALLY cool.

bout as cool as hashtags and random gifs

[saujee]

What you are trying to say in way too many words is: Please enforce a rotation.

Edit: And also that all guilds should be equal. They shouldn't be. Hardcore isn't for everyone nor is casual. If you aren't happy in your casual guild then look elsewhere.

So it does not matter how far your guild has come. Endless farming of Planes and endless farming of HoT to gear everyone up, ready for the next challenge in bosses to test your guild and get that first kill achievement. If you do not have Usain Bolt in your guild to win races. Then your content ends there. And forever labelled "Casual Guild". I use to think a Guilds Status was based on what they could kill and NOT what races they could win.

[Fasttimes]

So it does not matter how far your guild has come. Endless farming of Planes and endless farming of HoT to gear everyone up, ready for the next challenge in bosses to test your guild and get that first kill achievement. If you do not have Usain Bolt in your guild to win races. Then your content ends there. And forever labelled "Casual Guild".

whats wrong with casual guild label? i enjoy it and we kill merbs.

[Nexii]

So it does not matter how far your guild has come. Endless farming of Planes and endless farming of HoT to gear everyone up, ready for the next challenge in bosses to test your guild and get that first kill achievement. If you do not have Usain Bolt in your guild to win races. Then your content ends there. And forever labelled "Casual Guild".

See my second post. I'm not pro racing either. But enforced rotation is far worse. EQ is a game, and games are supposed to be competitive AND fun. Racing = no fun. Enforced rotation = no competitiveness.

[Legday]

What I am trying to say is, is there another way other than racing.

The top guilds are great. I dont want take anything from them but unfortunately it is like racing vs guilds on steroids atm and the top guilds will always have that advantage and stay on the top leaving lower guilds unable to progress unless the top guild gets banned or they deguild and join them.

What you need to understand is that any time a rule set has changed, the hardcore guilds are naturally quicker to learn and eventually perfect what is needed to secure and kill the mobs.

When Velious dropped the C/R/FFA cycles ended and hardcore guilds were free to go to town on whatever. The smaller guilds didn't bother with the end game stuff because it was an absurd amount of work to go in to the deep end already full of sharks and most likely come away empty handed.

Then the tactics escalated and smaller rules were implemented. Bigger guilds figured out how to snap pull dragons accross zones and things like that, and smaller guilds fell further behind while also shaking their heads at the whole thing.

Finally after the smaller guilds had had enough of the nonsense, Sirken stepped in and changed the rules to level the playing field dramatically, by putting in the racing rules and implementing a 1 hour lockout and made it so guilds could only be engaged in one target at a time. Before this if Aftermath or Awakened was getting ready to pull Koi and Tormax popped, a single guild could split forces and kill both at the same time. This was actually pretty common.

But even with the rules having just changed to allow everybody to figure out the racing mechanics at the same time, the hardcore guilds neckbearded harder and the smaller guilds were again deterred by the learning curve relative to the amount of work required, and the hardcore guilds have stayed mostly uncontested from any smaller guilds on race mobs.

There is a theme here. Unless there is an enforced rotation, the hardcore guilds will likely figure out the mechanics and kill just about everything and the smaller guilds will remain annoyed by the neck bearding.

This usually leads to two different types of posts in pleas towards the server staff and hardcore players...

1. Enforce a rotation, change variance, repop bonanza, etc.
2. Beg the hardcore guilds to care less. (Not going to happen)

[bktroost]

Facts are that there are actually 6 guilds that are getting highly contested FTEs and kills in under an hour.

Aftermath, Awakened, Azure Guard, Europa, Omni and Rustle.

Cons to Aftermath/Awakened: your playtime needs to be higher to see the good loot and you will likely need to do some serious FTEing to keep a slot in the dkp line up. More hardcore.
Pros to Aftermath/Awakened: you get more loot from high end content and it is spread across less people.

Cons to Azure Guard/Europa/Omni: you don't see as many high end FTEs and a good portion of the playtime of those FTEs is going to be while you are at work if you are a USA est player. Loot is also spread across three guilds.
Pros to Azure Guard/Europa/Omni: The large number of people means you can raid high end content at a leisurely pace with no raid requirements. Lots of hourly farming raids to build dkp outside of poopsocking. Omni doesnt use a dkp system if that isn't your thing. There is a fantastic infrastructure that keeps the guilds identified as different entities and they all have different time zones.


Cons to Rustle: As casual guilds go, Rustle doesn't race as often as the Azure Guard/Europa/Omni alliance but they do race well. Rustle are primarily a USA pm prime time guild.
Pros to Rustle: As a single entity, they are probably the most casual about raid mobs and raiding. With less people to spread the racing out rustle will focus on a few mobs and put their effort behind that and win those races often enough. I hear they are dkp but have a first item goes to the FTEr policy for some dkp expenditure. They have some very experience players and good leadership.


With 2 hard core guilds and 4 casual guilds spanning across all time zones and languages I'm not sure how the server could hold more guilds wanting more content. Why would any individual player or guild leader want to make more guilds for this content rather than join an established one? This server has both casuals and hardcore. Both have to make sacrifices to make the raid environment something in the middle. No one is happy and neither extreme will ever be implimented.

[bktroost]

I use to think a Guilds Status was based on what they could kill and what races they could win.

This is so far from the truth. You completely understand now. There are probably 20 guilds that have come and gone that WERE able to kill AoW and Vyemm and Tunare but none of that matters here. Everyone can do that.

What matters is having a working infrastructure internally that provides reward and divides responsibility and that the system produces FTEs and successful pulls.

All of that AND you have to have a well geared, trained and capable guild. Farming HoT is the smallest portion of getting kills in P99.

Edit: You also need to have some dedicated officers in Skype to handle politicking and lawyerquesting. You won't get far without it.

[Detoxx]

Wow just wow delete this plz. Other guilds get mobs a lot and the one hour rule gives CSG or the likes there of a reasonable amount of time to kill. Just because a/a claim to have veteran racers doesn't mean shit.

Gimp and I was the only ones on the line for statue once 2 vs 30+ a/a and we won. Snacks continues to casually get ftes in ToV along with a few others. Come on now. The alternative means you will see 0 mobs I repeat you will not get a single one. The current rule set favors the casual. Now move along.

Ps. You have no clue how it was in kunark. You'd be thankful it is how it is now if you did.

We were suspended bro, dont lie. It was 30 Awakened :p

[saujee]

Thank you for all your comments.

From my personal perspective. My guild has tons of potential to progress and to defeat all bosses on the server. It is just just a pity that guilds like aftermath and awakened are just too damn good at racing. I just do not want to believe that joining them are the only option to see end game content when I believe a guild like mine has so much potential to progress but just can not race like them.

[bktroost]

Thank you for all your comments.

From my personal perspective. My guild has tons of potential to progress and to defeat all bosses on the server. It is just just a pity that guilds like aftermath and awakened are just too damn good at racing. I just do not want to believe that joining them are the only option to see end game content when I believe a guild like mine has so much potential to progress but just can not race like them.

I sort of explained that there are other options than joining JUST A/A. But if you want to stick to your guild's tag and divide content further I'm down to support you! Send me any questions you have about how to implement infrastructure for racing in ToV or dkp systems as a casual guild and I'm happy to help.

[SoekiWiz]

Ok so we've finally arrived.

So it does not matter how far your guild has come. Endless farming of Planes and endless farming of HoT to gear everyone up, ready for the next challenge in bosses to test your guild and get that first kill achievement.

Exactly what do you think the members of the guilds who dominate that scene have been doing?

Ever farm DA Idols for 6 hours to help your guild?

How about the millions of plat spent on recharges? Millions.

If you do not have Usain Bolt in your guild to win races. Then your content ends there. And forever labelled "Casual Guild".

Now the story has changed from the "better FTE'ers" getting "most" of the FTE's to your content ends here aka you'll never get a FTE? This screams victim statement if I've ever heard one.

I use to think a Guilds Status was based on what they could kill and what races they could win.

Ok, so if by your own train of thought, a guild's ability to claim a target and thereby experience the content of killing it via winning a race, you've officially talked yourself into a complete circle.

Wanna kill shit? Win the race.

Don't wanna race cuz your FTE'ers aren't good enough? Join another guild.

You're saying you can't race because you can't win, which is why you're asking for an alternate solution. Man up!

[Legday]

Thank you for all your comments.

From my personal perspective. My guild has tons of potential to progress and to defeat all bosses on the server. It is just just a pity that guilds like aftermath and awakened are just too damn good at racing. I just do not want to believe that joining them are the only option to see end game content when I believe a guild like mine has so much potential to progress but just can not race like them.

It is the paradox of the server. There has never been an EQ live server like this one where it is popular enough to have this many players get to end level, while also progressing so slowly that players spend waaaay more time at end level during each expansion so the raid becomes jam packed with players that are capable of doing the content.

The only difference then becomes...how good can you get within the rules and how much time are your members willing to spend ensuring that you can kill things faster than anybody else.

[saujee]

I use to think a Guilds Status was based on what they could kill and NOT what races they could win.

Sorry SoekiWiz forgot to add the "Not" in there haha

[Ravager]

Man up!
P99 raiding is a joke and this is the punchline.

[Cecily]

Facts are that there are actually 6 guilds that are getting highly contested FTEs and kills in under an hour.

Aftermath, Awakened, Azure Guard, Europa, Omni and Rustle.

I only see 4.

[Nommis]

bout as cool as hashtags and random gifs

I miss your extremely heavy breathing over TS, Fast. For real, I'd get that checked out.

[Fasttimes]

I miss your extremely heavy breathing over TS, Fast. For real, I'd get that checked out.

i did actually. Grats on taking it personal in EQ.

[Sancta]

Warning: Stockholm syndrome is real on this server. Don't freak out when you realize we're just more organized and focused versions of the same people you like to play with in your current guild.

stay woke

-Tenderli

[bktroost]

I only see 4.

AG kills things on our own ask the time...also, I have no desire to learn how to manage all the language barriers in Europa...nor do I want to manage that many HoT rums a week. Definitely 3 guilds.

[Zekayy]

Play Uthgard

[Zekayy]

Dude anyone can get fte its just a matter of trying hell Ive seen a few ftes from guilds you wouldnt normally see, I recall infernus got fte on statue one time. I recall anonymous got fte a few times on statue and few dragons in tov so all you have to really do is try. or go on a practice server and practice runs and get good :)

[Zekayy]

AG kills things on our own ask the time...also, I have no desire to learn how to manage all the language barriers in Europa...nor do I want to manage that many HoT rums a week. Definitely 3 guilds.

When will csg merge?

[Kodim]

Pick an easy target. Eashen, Dozekar, Ikatiar, Telk, Gozzrem, LTK, Aary, Feshlak, Dagarn are all extremely quick and easy runs(only requiring a single DA idol)

Go on a practice server and learn the best way to run to said targets and what you need mallet to chain aggro

Get on a Bard/Ranger/Wiz and bind sight whichever one you want and get to it

[Detoxx]

Pick an easy target. Eashen, Dozekar, Ikatiar, Telk, Gozzrem, LTK, Aary, Feshlak, Dagarn are all extremely quick and easy runs(only requiring a single DA idol)

Go on a practice server and learn the best way to run to said targets and what you need mallet to chain aggro

Get on a Bard/Ranger/Wiz and bind sight whichever one you want and get to it

Dozekar is the hardest run in ToV

[Skew]

Is the alt-tab nerd splurge still a thing? Id agree with you if abusing client mechanics wasnt necessary to go faster than sow speed.

[Skew]

AG kills things on our own ask the time...also, I have no desire to learn how to manage all the language barriers in Europa...nor do I want to manage that many HoT rums a week. Definitely 3 guilds.

So youre saying Omni gets FTEs and kill its own dragons in ToV? Right-O.
And with all due respect to my European friends but Europa need help opening the front door. The 14 members that took 3 hours fannying around on Vaniki uncontested and eventually gave up is more the rule than the exception.
Youre one guild when it comes to end-game content.

[Swish]

http://i.imgur.com/z9nALkQ.gif

Still bemused by the 100s of people who have an issue with the raid scene but won't consider red server. Not only is it a quicker route to level 60 but the camps you want are there and everything ticks over nicely. If you want to level and raid under one guild, join Thunderdome, they do both and always welcome new players.

Meanwhile maybe the problem is not that there aren't any open camps here, but you're the one thats getting pushed out of camping things?

[Phantasm]

Great, Swish found the thread. Time to make a new one

[kotton05]

You and Gimp only won because I wasn't there. Slow your roll cowboy.

You too busy in tov duh

[kotton05]

There is a point where you have beaten P99 and you are just an a$$hole if you continue to plug up the top end raiding zones. See the content and move along, its literally crazy that guilds use batphones and DKP on an emulated time-locked server.

Every week the server should come together for an open raid in ToV where the guilds all work together and clear the entire damn place – open rolls for usable items by anyone in attendance.

But but the 7th alt!!

i don't get it either spyder. But here is the kicker....

Aftermath was willing to rotate mobs and work with everyone just like rustle. It wasn't rustle or am afaik who ruined it... surprisingly it was CSG who was unhappy and didn't agree. Then the members complain like it was AM who ruined it. The misinformation is at an all time high. We was close to working it out like adults:( I hope it gets revisited as detoxx is a leader who will work with others np step up CSG swallow that pride. You was gonna get dain PD and a few other really nice targets but wasn't enough!

Plz reconsider csg lets be done with the old ways and make a change

[Skew]

What did CSG and FoV/Ven get this cycle compared to the last time Awakened was locked ?

[Culkasi]

But but the 7th alt!!

i don't get it either spyder. But here is the kicker....

Aftermath was willing to rotate mobs and work with everyone just like rustle. It wasn't rustle or am afaik who ruined it... surprisingly it was CSG who was unhappy and didn't agree. Then the members complain like it was AM who ruined it. The misinformation is at an all time high. We was close to working it out like adults:( I hope it gets revisited as detoxx is a leader who will work with others np step up CSG swallow that pride. You was gonna get dain PD and a few other really nice targets but wasn't enough!

Plz reconsider csg lets be done with the old ways and make a change

Sounds like you are badly informed, please don't slander our name like that. We were not happy with the split suggested, and requested some changes, but as far as I know we weren't the difficult party to work with here.

AM didn't ruin it, they just asked for too large a piece of the cake in my mind, and so did another party in the talks. We would've been happy with less cake than on last agreement (of course), but the quality of the cake should not diminish so much that you are doubting if it actually is cake. CSG doesn't want to kill 10 mobs in a week, thats not who we are or how we roll. 2-3 of the nice pieces of cake, and we would've filled our need and happily moved on, but when all we are offered is crusts, then we ask for a different way of distributing said cake. Now one party wanted flat out a size of the cake proportionate to their size (which was never going to happen), and another party wanted to have most of the cake AND all of the toppings, which of course isn't really fair either.

Anyway, think what you like, but CSG wanted to make an agreement here, very very much so - FFA raiding is not for 2017.

Edit: I also haven't really seen any CSG crying about this agreement falling through, anywhere on the forums? If so they are not representing us well.
We knew it was a possibility with the problems outlined above, but surely there is a threshold where an agreement is just too poor to agree to.

[Culkasi]

CSG too busy strong arming kouhai outta pixels in PoF to come to the table :c

I thought they were a swell group. What up with that? (´n` )

Not sure what this is about, we haven't killed a ffa mob in Fear for several weeks, if even this year

[Culkasi]

@Godefroi

Sometimes its not about what you get but how you get it. We are not fully unhappy about what we got this week in terms of volume, the 4-5 mobs we got this week is pretty much all we are asking for

[arsenalpow]

CSG were offered a fair rotation of every 7th Velketor or Wuoshi. The other guilds don't understand why CSG is being so difficult to work with.

[Legday]

CSG were offered a fair rotation of every 7th Velketor or Wuoshi. The other guilds don't understand why CSG is being so difficult to work with.

It was much more than that. There were some big mobs in there accross the 2 cycles that Awakened was missing. Not to mention that the rest of the big names were mostly FFA. I know FFA isn't exactly level accross the guilds, but CSG won a fair and square Lady Nev race the other day.

[Ella`Ella]

It was much more than that. There were some big mobs in there accross the 2 cycles that Awakened was missing. Not to mention that the rest of the big names were mostly FFA. I know FFA isn't exactly level accross the guilds, but CSG won a fair and square Lady Nev race the other day.

Legday, you're trying to rationalize with the leader of the 15th most capable guild on an instanced server.

http://www.phinnykills.com/

[arsenalpow]

Legday, you're trying to rationalize with the leader of the 15th most capable guild on an instanced server.

http://www.phinnykills.com/

I'll have you know we moved up from 18th to 15th when we got around to killing Gore and Talendor 2 expansions late.

[Culkasi]

or was this just venting some frustration from the failed negotiation? either way, im disappointed :c

That looks like someone helping you not breaking server rules - also no idea who was on that, its not been discussed in our CSG chat, but will investigate

[Ella`Ella]

I'll have you know we moved up from 18th to 15th when we got around to killing Gore and Talendor 2 expansions late.

You'll always be #1 in my book.

[kotton05]

But but the 7th alt!!

i don't get it either spyder. But here is the kicker....

Aftermath was willing to rotate mobs and work with everyone just like rustle. It wasn't rustle or am afaik who ruined it... surprisingly it was CSG who was unhappy and didn't agree. Then the members complain like it was AM who ruined it. The misinformation is at an all time high. We was close to working it out like adults:( I hope it gets revisited as detoxx is a leader who will work with others np step up CSG swallow that pride. You was gonna get dain PD and a few other really nice targets but wasn't enough!

Plz reconsider csg lets be done with the old ways and make a change

May have been alil harsh I'm sorry I just want it like the last two weeks ugh

[Pan]

Might be interesting if Aftermath would actually post the agreement that they proposed. And the counter that they rejected.

[Erati]

all I have to say is I am shocked by these revelations.

[Ella`Ella]

Might be interesting if Aftermath would actually post the agreement that they proposed. And the counter that they rejected.

Why does it matter? You know where they stand and you've seen the result of turning down their proposed/counter agreement. You're either A) happy with the result and look forward to reaping the same fruits during the next cycle or B) you've realized your negotiating position and would like to revisit Aftermath's original proposed agreement.

[Pan]

Why does it matter? You know where they stand and you've seen the result of turning down their proposed/counter agreement. You're either A) happy with the result and look forward to reaping the same fruits during the next cycle or B) you've realized your negotiating position and would like to revisit Aftermath's original proposed agreement.

I didn't say it mattered. I said it may be interesting. Especially in light of the turn the conversation took. People are often interested in data.

And you whiffed with A/B in reading my mind, at least, Karnak.

[Ella`Ella]

Well, I mean if the list was like:

Klandicar
Gozzrem
Velketor
Fright
Terror
OOA
Master Yael
Ghoul Lord


It kinda matters, ya know?

Well first, that wasn't the list - nor was it close to that. Second, I still don't see how it matters, though. Like I said, they're either happy where they landed this week and feel comfortable doing so again without an agreement or they're dissatisfied, know their leverage, and would like to revisit the agreement again.

[Nuggie]

@the OP

Have patience. Eventually the current top two guilds will implode, move on with their lives, or get chased off the server.

Eventually the server will be a reasonable place, it just may take some time.

[Ella`Ella]

I didn't say it mattered. I said it may be interesting. Especially in light of the turn the conversation took. People are often interested in data.

And you whiffed with A/B in reading my mind, at least, Karnak.

Fair fair.

I guess my real question is at the very bottom line, does CSG think that Rustle and Aftermath have treated them unfairly during Awakened's suspension?

[bktroost]

There are some guilds on the box here that think because they CAN kill a mob that they SHOULD kill said mob. For more information please see OP that started this thread.

CSG is not the guild that ultimately ended the negotiations in FFA here. Negotiations are back and forth. We were in the middle of that back and forth process when a younger guild essentially made a stand based on the false premise that I just mentioned. The offer was so ridiculous that AM walked away. I don't blame them though, the younger guilds on this server need to understand that being able to actually kill the mobs is about 10% of what matters in seeing a contested mob's corpse at your feet.

[Skew]

Golems dropped an AoN this cycle.
And CSG had an uncontested Willsapper waiting for them Sunday till they were put out of their misery.
Thats probably better loot than most weeks if youre happy with 4-5 targets.

[Culkasi]

Golems dropped an AoN this cycle.
And CSG had an uncontested Willsapper waiting for them Sunday till they were put out of their misery.
Thats probably better loot than most weeks if youre happy with 4-5 targets.

I appreciate it was fun for you guys (how many times did Awakened wipe on the previous spawn btw?) that we didn't get that Vaniki, but is there any way you think you can get over it? Btw Vaniki spawned again shortly after and we got one, so grats to whoever got that.

[Skew]

There are some guilds on the box here that think because they CAN kill a mob that they SHOULD kill said mob. For more information please see OP that started this thread.

I don't blame them though, the younger guilds on this server need to understand that being able to actually kill the mobs is about 10% of what matters in seeing a contested mob's corpse at your feet.

Very true.
Demand/supply will forever be the main issue on p99

[Ravager]

@the OP

Have patience. Eventually the current top two guilds will implode, move on with their lives, or get chased off the server.

Eventually the server will be a reasonable place, it just may take some time.
Until the GM's make it happen, keep dreaming.

[Culkasi]

Fair fair.

I guess my real question is at the very bottom line, does CSG think that Rustle and Aftermath have treated them unfairly during Awakened's suspension?

I don't think anyone has treated anyone unfairly at this stage, we just couldn't get the ends to meet on an agreement, I don't think there is a shit load of drama in that.
We think a few guilds wanted a bit too much, and we wanted a little bit more than what was "offered" (or rather, more quality rather than quantity). Its what happens with negotiations.

[Skew]

I appreciate it was fun for you guys (how many times did Awakened wipe on the previous spawn btw?) that we didn't get that Vaniki, but is there any way you think you can get over it? Btw Vaniki spawned again shortly after and we got one, so grats to whoever got that.

Ill probably never get over that Vaniki - a necro looted it :(

[Pan]

Fair fair.

I guess my real question is at the very bottom line, does CSG think that Rustle and Aftermath have treated them unfairly during Awakened's suspension?

Not at all. Getsome busted his ASS to get something done. Way more than fair on his part for the effort and hours. He had a hell of a tough job repping 8 guilds trying to create something.

Detoxx and I talked a ton about the offer and the counter, which he ultimately rejected in favor of FFA. His call to make for his guild.

And all of this happened in the middle of the night, ffs. People went out of their way on this (11pm-4am my time, for what it's worth).

That's how this shit works. Everyone operated within their own spheres with as well as they could. And this time it went FFA.

Do you hear me bitching about the ultimate outcome?

[Erati]

(how many times did Awakened wipe on the previous spawn btw?)

Be nice sir !

I imagine it was pretty low number affair as its hard to get more than 3-5 people to show up for this rat.

Carry on...

[Lammy]

Cons to Rustle: As casual guilds go, Rustle doesn't race as often as the Azure Guard/Europa/Omni alliance but they do race well. Rustle are primarily a USA pm prime time guild.
Pros to Rustle: As a single entity, they are probably the most casual about raid mobs and raiding. With less people to spread the racing out rustle will focus on a few mobs and put their effort behind that and win those races often enough. I hear they are dkp but have a first item goes to the FTEr policy for some dkp expenditure. They have some very experience players and good leadership.

GDI this guild sounds good

[bktroost]

Unless the lead GM says otherwise, guilds just act accordingly to what they are allowed to do i.e. killing FFA mobs within 1 hour of having an FTE on it.

P99 is currently under PnP , and Sirken, wants guilds to work thing out together to stick to classic CSM. The failure of CSG to agree with AM/R agreement is part of the classic experience, it's guilds business, not CSM business.

Now that you tasted what it was like to be FFA after refusing an agreement, you may judge your performance as acceptable, or maybe not. Said performance will influence your negotiation power with other guilds.

In a distopia, you might as well start taking 90% of mobs from AM/R , they would definitely reconsider negotiating with you, in which case, you could also refuse and just keep things FFA. This is how things went down in classic EQ. It's how it's going down here.

What you are trying to push is what goes on phinigel via instances, and the history of P99 (Non-CSR VP, Class C/R raiding etc) shows it is not unlikely to happen here.

Stop stop.

I'll say this again. CSG was mid negotiation when ANOTHER guild (not csg, not rustle, not AM) demanded am unreasonable amount of mobs and AM backed out. CSG and Rustle were doing the reasonable negotiation thing as we always have done and always will do. I don't blame AM for backing out because there was no way to appease the fourth party.


To the comments about sirken and GMs and such. They want player made agreements and self regulation. It's often been said in the upper channels that if we self regulated and made agreements (notice I'm not using the word rotation) that more things would happen for us.

Everyone cries about vulak dropping too little, and windows being too long, etc. Sirken always responds to the variance claim by saying "well you all promised there would be less poopsocking with less variance. So we lowered it to 16 hours and you still poopsock. We did our part and you lied".

You want to fix the server side issues then playing within the rules given just isn't enough.

[Ella`Ella]

Do you hear me bitching about the ultimate outcome?

I've never heard you actually bitch, which is why you're my favorite casual scum =P. I've also worked with you personally and know how reasonable you are.

[bktroost]

Need to know who the fourth party was so that they can be properly ridiculed. Was it FoV? That why they got curb stomped on Draco?


Also, why isn't this thread in RNF?

Yes it was. Also about that draco. I think that poopsocking golems on their temple is reprehensible. I don't think there is anything more I can do to stop that toxic behavior but preventing a guild from breaking the rules by adding Draco to their take is a start. It's definitely a point of frustration that temple socking even exists.

[arsenalpow]

lol so reprehensible

Gtfo

[Pokesan]

Competitive Scum Guild

[Pokesan]

the once incorruptible Nemce has fallen under the shadow of The Pixel

[Freakish]

Everyone cries about vulak dropping too little, and windows being too long, etc. Sirken always responds to the variance claim by saying "well you all promised there would be less poopsocking with less variance. So we lowered it to 16 hours and you still poopsock. We did our part and you lied".

You want to fix the server side issues then playing within the rules given just isn't enough.

Sure and there were supposed to be repops. A lot of them. That never happened, we get the odd repop when Rogean logs on and is in a good mood. That's his prerogative, but its not like only side of the table failed to hold up their side.

[Skew]

Nice ^^ So, FoV force FFA and then flub the rules.


It take more than a sock to get dragons, FoV (^。~)v Gonna have to do better if you wanna be taken seriously at the table.

What has FoV bagged this cycle?

They got a ring war.
But thats on rotation :D

[Erati]

Golems are raid mobs (thusly should follow 2 tracker rule) and poopsocking is what people do in Everquest

to say to people to 'stop poopsocking' is akin to 'don't log in'

[bktroost]

Golems are raid mobs (thusly should follow 2 tracker rule) and poopsocking is what people do in Everquest

to say to people to 'stop poopsocking' is akin to 'don't log in'

I thought they were camp mobs with FTEs. Hence why some guilds still templesock with a raid.

[Erati]

I thought they were camp mobs with FTEs. Hence why some guilds still templesock with a raid.

They are but calling a spade a spade - they should be raid mobs because frankly thats what they are.

Multi-group, in raid zone, long timer with variance - sounds like a raid mob and should be classified as such imo.

[bktroost]

They are but calling a spade a spade - they should be raid mobs because frankly thats what they are.

Multi-group, in raid zone, long timer with variance - sounds like a raid mob and should be classified as such imo.

Ah then we are agreed on that point.

[Skew]

LUL, Hope people learned something from this.

I think we all learnt that its better to discuss and follow server rules than to cheat , yes.

[Pokesan]

Was watching Twitch recently and saw someone called Littlenemce trying to bully FOH out of HOT

that you mayor?

[Skew]

Yes please make sure you follow all written and unwritten rules as well as verbal rules from the sirken stream thank you

if you do not follow ALL rules you will face the consequences

thank you


Cheer up sport , only another week to go.

[Gimp]

Wow just wow delete this plz. Other guilds get mobs a lot and the one hour rule gives CSG or the likes there of a reasonable amount of time to kill. Just because a/a claim to have veteran racers doesn't mean shit.

Gimp and I was the only ones on the line for statue once 2 vs 30+ a/a and we won. Snacks continues to casually get ftes in ToV along with a few others. Come on now. The alternative means you will see 0 mobs I repeat you will not get a single one. The current rule set favors the casual. Now move along.

Ps. You have no clue how it was in kunark. You'd be thankful it is how it is now if you did.

You trying to take credit for my FTEs baw??

[kotton05]

You trying to take credit for my FTEs baw??

No you won. I was with you, in terms it was 2 rustle vs 30ish was my point. Was a great triumph agisnt all odds you savage

Miss joo

[Nuggie]

This is the first time I can recall a time when there a major dispute between raid guilds and the back and forth did not end up in rnf.

That is worth something right?

[Fasttimes]

Both have more targets in 2017

[Comcastic]

is it true that Poor Infernus won Feshlak FTE and walked away with no loot after teaming up with CSG? You would think winning FTE would matter a little bit :(

[Culkasi]

is it true that Poor Infernus won Feshlak FTE and walked away with no loot after teaming up with CSG? You would think winning FTE would matter a little bit :(

When we kill mobs, any mobs, we roll by population. Its the way CSG does it, and we are very very very open about that whenever we team up with anyone. Infernus accepted this, and has as well in the many times we have killed stuff in the past. They understand the mechanism of RNG over time, and that it all evens out.

[Lammy]

this is all merkks fault now

[Fasttimes]

this is all merkks fault now

sorry awakened, clearly merkk's fault. carry on

[Pokesan]

is it true that Poor Infernus won Feshlak FTE and walked away with no loot after teaming up with CSG? You would think winning FTE would matter a little bit :(

bleak, if true.

[Skew]

bleak, if true.

Would probably have got 1st pick for an FTE if they brought half a raid force and asked Rustle.

[kotton05]

this is all merkks fault now

Here I stand in all my faults. Forgive me. All I want is ✌️

[Cecily]

Would probably have got 1st pick for an FTE if they brought half a raid force and asked Rustle.

Rustle always gives a fair share of loot to the people we invite to raid with us. Be wary of any raid force who randoms.

[getsome]

You mean letting Detoxx and Getsome handle everything isn't working out the way they had hoped it would. I'm also very shocked.

Did you ever work on your resist set so you would stop dieing on ragefire?

[Fasttimes]

Rustle always gives a fair share of loot to the people we invite to raid with us. Be wary of any raid force who randoms.

beware the ides of march

[Raev]

When we kill mobs, any mobs, we roll by population. Its the way CSG does it, and we are very very very open about that whenever we team up with anyone. Infernus accepted this, and has as well in the many times we have killed stuff in the past. They understand the mechanism of RNG over time, and that it all evens out.

You're welcome to make whatever agreements you want, but I would imagine that Infernus will be pinging Getsome on Skype in the future. It's all about the Almighty Pixel.

[Cecily]

You're welcome to make whatever agreements you want, but I would imagine that Infernus will be pinging Getsome on Skype in the future. It's all about the Almighty Pixel.

No, well yes, but no. It's about equity. CSG is not 3 guilds for the purpose of big game killing. They are a single entity with their own loot rules. Subjecting other guilds to their /ran loot split is and always has been completely insane and I don't suggest it to anyone.

[stonez138]

I was just wondering if there was an alternative to allowing all guilds a fair and legitimate chance at those target vs guilds in full BiS Gear who require less numbers and less organising due to less numbers needed to kill targets and win coth races. They will always have a head start vs guilds who are less equipped.



It would help if once you got fte you had like an hour window to kill the mob. Since you don't have bis gear and need more people and more time an hour would let you gather your forces to get a fair and legitimate chance at those targets.....

Oh wait they already allow that.

[paroxysmal]

Nice ^^ So, FoV force FFA and then flub the rules.


It take more than a sock to get dragons, FoV (^。~)v Gonna have to do better if you wanna be taken seriously at the table.

What has FoV bagged this cycle?

Since when was FTE racing ever part of classic? We are here to relive the classic experience. I could give two shits about the racing aspect that is present only here on p99.

Also, Nemce, as I stated in the group chat every time this happens Detoxx is going to come back with an offer of less mobs they are willing to give up and eventually it won't be palatable to any of the guilds looking to cooperate.

You can't have a player made agreement where one player is unfairly set to the advantage. It needs to be a fair and even sharing process.

To me this just shows how AM really is in regards to their willingness to step out of their gluttony.

F/V will continue on as we have been getting what we can. I highly doubt at this time we will entertain any of the statue agreements currently until AM/AW are more willing to set aside their greed for cooperation.

There are a lot of players on this server looking to relive their glory days in eq. The way the high level raid scene is right now is NOT classic. I have spoke my peace to Sirken about this as well has offered several ideas on how to alleviate the problem to him and to Nilbog and Rogean. It will be up to them if they care enough about the casual player to actually make a change for the better, to decrease the toxicity on this server and make it into what it should have been all along.

[arsenalpow]

Nothing will change. History proves this.

[Ella`Ella]

Also, Nemce, as I stated in the group chat every time this happens Detoxx is going to come back with an offer of less mobs they are willing to give up and eventually it won't be palatable to any of the guilds looking to cooperate.

Whatever favorable terms Detoxx wants to work out with you is 95% predicated on how much he likes/respects you and 5% about pixels to him - I know Detoxx pretty well, you'd go a lot further appealing to him than opposing him.

You aren't entitled to shit. (https://youtu.be/-Uo9WeZP6N8)

You can't have a player made agreement where one player is unfairly set to the advantage. It needs to be a fair and even sharing process.

Yes, you can; that's what negotiating is. One person is at an advantage while the other is at a disadvantage. You go back and forth until each party walks away having given something up.

Nothing needs to be or is supposed to be "fair", especially for the new kids on the block like you. Back of the line, pal.

You aren't entitled to shit. (https://youtu.be/-Uo9WeZP6N8)

To me this just shows how AM really is in regards to their willingness to step out of their gluttony.

They earned their spot by trading their dignity and virginity for those pixels and owe you nothing. You're lucky they even reached out to offer you whatever crumbs they did.

You aren't entitled to shit. (https://youtu.be/-Uo9WeZP6N8)

F/V will continue on as we have been getting what we can. I highly doubt at this time we will entertain any of the statue agreements currently until AM/AW are more willing to set aside their greed for cooperation.

Let's see how that works out for you.

You aren't entitled to shit. (https://youtu.be/-Uo9WeZP6N8)

There are a lot of players on this server looking to relive their glory days in eq. The way the high level raid scene is right now is NOT classic. I have spoke my peace to Sirken about this as well has offered several ideas on how to alleviate the problem to him and to Nilbog and Rogean. It will be up to them if they care enough about the casual player to actually make a change for the better, to decrease the toxicity on this server and make it into what it should have been all along.

If you think the Sirken, Nilbog or Rogean give a shit about you as an individual or as a single guild, you're smoking the kind of shit you only hear about in movies. You're not going to get any of your big ideas through without getting 90% of CSG on board, Rustle and at least one of A/A.

You aren't entitled to shit. (https://youtu.be/-Uo9WeZP6N8)

[Fasttimes]

Damn ella with them dunks

[Pokesan]

it is a little unfair to demand total equality when AM did the hard work of getting Awakened suspended.

think of it as an FTE and git gud at lawyering

[Cecily]

The problem is....There is no problem.


Just because there is no rotation or free mobs for you does not mean there is a problem.


Imagine how much of Sirken's life these petitions ate up? .

Raid Suspension: Awakened (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264102)
Raid Suspension: Awakened (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263081)
Raid Suspension: Awakened (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261775)

You are the problem.

[Skew]

Whatever favorable terms Detoxx wants to work out with you is 95% predicated on how much he likes/respects you and 5% about pixels to him - I know Detoxx pretty well, you'd go a lot further appealing to him than opposing him.

You aren't entitled to shit.



Yes, you can; that's what negotiating is. One person is at an advantage while the other is at a disadvantage. You go back and forth until each party walks away having given something up.

Nothing needs to be or is supposed to be "fair", especially for the new kids on the block like you. Back of the line, pal.

You aren't entitled to shit.



They earned their spot by trading their dignity and virginity for those pixels and owe you nothing. You're lucky they even reached out to offer you whatever crumbs they did.

You aren't entitled to shit.



Let's see how that works out for you.

You aren't entitled to shit.



If you think the Sirken, Nilbog or Rogean give a shit about you as an individual or as a single guild, you're smoking the kind of shit you only hear about in movies. You're not going to get any of your big ideas through without getting 90% of CSG on board, Rustle and at least one of A/A.

You aren't entitled to shit.


We can close the thread now.

See if you can all do better next time we get a shot at not having to go pro-neckbeard for pixels.

[paroxysmal]

Whatever favorable terms Detoxx wants to work out with you is 95% predicated on how much he likes/respects you and 5% about pixels to him - I know Detoxx pretty well, you'd go a lot further appealing to him than opposing him.

You aren't entitled to shit.


Yes, you can; that's what negotiating is. One person is at an advantage while the other is at a disadvantage. You go back and forth until each party walks away having given something up.

Nothing needs to be or is supposed to be "fair", especially for the new kids on the block like you. Back of the line, pal.

You aren't entitled to shit.



They earned their spot by trading their dignity and virginity for those pixels and owe you nothing. You're lucky they even reached out to offer you whatever crumbs they did.

You aren't entitled to shit.



Let's see how that works out for you.

You aren't entitled to shit.



If you think the Sirken, Nilbog or Rogean give a shit about you as an individual or as a single guild, you're smoking the kind of shit you only hear about in movies. You're not going to get any of your big ideas through without getting 90% of CSG on board, Rustle and at least one of A/A.

You aren't entitled to shit.

I am not going to worship them for having no lives Ella, nor do I feel like we are entitled to anything. I will do as I want with my guild and its really none of your business.

I feel sorry for the people that have been on this server for 7 years of this and put up with it, if not from AW/AM from whomever was in charge at the time.

[Nexii]

Imagine how much of Sirken's life these petitions ate up? .

Raid Suspension: Awakened (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264102)
Raid Suspension: Awakened (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263081)
Raid Suspension: Awakened (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261775)

You are the problem.

Well the staff agreed to a set of byzantine rules to my understanding. I'm sure they could also repeal said rules if they wanted. But an alternative could be worse unless well thought out. Threads like these aren't helpful because they are just throwing out populist drivel (likely from someone who doesn't raid or is a troll) with little actual thought to a workable solution.

[The Prez]

You aren't entitled to shit. (https://youtu.be/-Uo9WeZP6N8)

Damn. Ella`Ella FTMFW.

Also, I didn't realize until I quoted that the bolded text was a hyperlink. Lulz

[The Prez]

Oh.. Because Ella`Ella ninja edited as I hit quote.. lol

[Cecily]

Well the staff agreed to a set of byzantine rules to my understanding. I'm sure they could also repeal said rules if they wanted. But an alternative could be worse unless well thought out. Threads like these aren't helpful because they are just throwing out populist drivel (likely from someone who doesn't raid or is a troll) with little actual thought to a workable solution.

Well that's kinda my point. "Competition" in EQ just fosters an environment requiring GM babysitting. A serverwide player agreement does the opposite.

[RedXIII]

This thread started to get better once casuals start fight with each other. Nice!

[supermonk]

considering how cancerous the raid scene was throughout kunark, this current one is more than you can ask for or expect. at least the top 2 guilds are willing to entertain a discussion for change; that would've never happened back during the TMO/IB days. also, seeing the rest of the community split up dragons the past month was a beautiful thing. I don't know how much more of a hand-out you want, OP. part of the reason EQ is so unique is because in order to get the good stuff, you have to put in the work. this current system, although it has it's own flaws, will at least give other guilds an opportunity...something that wouldn't have ever happened back in the day.

[Zemus]

Whatever favorable terms Detoxx wants to work out with you is 95% predicated on how much he likes/respects you and 5% about pixels to him - I know Detoxx pretty well, you'd go a lot further appealing to him than opposing him.

You aren't entitled to shit. (https://youtu.be/-Uo9WeZP6N8)



Yes, you can; that's what negotiating is. One person is at an advantage while the other is at a disadvantage. You go back and forth until each party walks away having given something up.

Nothing needs to be or is supposed to be "fair", especially for the new kids on the block like you. Back of the line, pal.

You aren't entitled to shit. (https://youtu.be/-Uo9WeZP6N8)



They earned their spot by trading their dignity and virginity for those pixels and owe you nothing. You're lucky they even reached out to offer you whatever crumbs they did.

You aren't entitled to shit. (https://youtu.be/-Uo9WeZP6N8)



Let's see how that works out for you.

You aren't entitled to shit. (https://youtu.be/-Uo9WeZP6N8)



If you think the Sirken, Nilbog or Rogean give a shit about you as an individual or as a single guild, you're smoking the kind of shit you only hear about in movies. You're not going to get any of your big ideas through without getting 90% of CSG on board, Rustle and at least one of A/A.

You aren't entitled to shit. (https://youtu.be/-Uo9WeZP6N8)


Yikes, mad.

Careful quani you just rustled a pro rule lawyer. Lul.

[Cecily]

This thread started to get better once casuals start fight with each other. Nice!

Figured you guys would enjoy that.

[Pringles]

I am not going to worship them for having no lives Ella, nor do I feel like we are entitled to anything. I will do as I want with my guild and its really none of your business.

I feel sorry for the people that have been on this server for 7 years of this and put up with it, if not from AW/AM from whomever was in charge at the time.
You guys temple sit golems. What was that about no lives?

[Erati]

F/V will continue on as we have been getting what we can. I highly doubt at this time we will entertain any of the statue agreements currently until AM/AW are more willing to set aside their greed for cooperation.


The Statue agreement helps your guild 'relive' classic raiding by allowing you schedule Statue/AoW whenever would be best for you. There's nothing greedy about it.

You should consider it rather than thinking it's some kind of 'leverage'.

[Kruel]

There is a point where you have beaten P99 and you are just an a$$hole if you continue to plug up the top end raiding zones. See the content and move along, its literally crazy that guilds use batphones and DKP on an emulated time-locked server.

Every week the server should come together for an open raid in ToV where the guilds all work together and clear the entire damn place – open rolls for usable items by anyone in attendance.

this actually made me lol. You sir do not have a good idea.

[Legday]

We're willing to work with you guys. Don't bring the underdog in a holy war mentality with you, though.

CSG and Rustle have been around a long time. Follow their lead.

There were some big time mobs in that offer, and most of others were FFA if you guys were interested in trying to go from a good haul to a great one.

[Pokesan]

You guys temple sit golems. What was that about no lives?

didn't you use to be a forum moderator?

[saujee]

Ella Ella I have seen good guilds break up and good people fall apart and joining the top guilds due to attitude towards the server like yours.
And this is why I made this thread. To ask if there is another way we can do this other than having to race.
AM and AW are great guilds and they deserve the credit. But it has gotten to the point where they are too good, too strong and have too much influence on the server and people HAVE to join their guild if they want to see any end game pixels and people like you saying other guilds are not entitled to anything.

In my opinion and from my personal perspective it should not have to be like that. I should not be pressured into joining AM and AW who have the advantage of winning races with their numbers and better gear to reach my end game goals and leave my good friends behind and only making them stronger.

And if I did join them the end game velious content will be too easy with no sense of progression because they have been farming that stuff for months/years already.

Newer guilds do not stand a chance when racing these guys and therefore blocked.

Should I just stop and join them?

[Nexii]

Ella Ella I have seen good guilds break up and good people fall apart and joining the top guilds due to attitude towards the server like yours.
And this is why I made this thread. To ask if there is another way we can do this other than having to race.
AM and AW are great guilds and they deserve the credit. But it has gotten to the point where they are too good, too strong and have too much influence on the server and people HAVE to join their guild if they want to see any end game pixels and people like you saying other guilds are not entitled to anything.

In my opinion and from my personal perspective it should not have to be like that. I should not be pressured into joining AM and AW who have the advantage of winning races with their numbers and better gear to reach my end game goals and leave my good friends behind and only making them stronger.

And if I did join them the end game velious content will be too easy with no sense of progression because they have been farming that stuff for months/years already.

Newer guilds do not stand a chance when racing these guys and therefore blocked.

Should I just stop and join them?

So suggest something. What's your proposed alternative?

[dafier]

In my opinion and from my personal perspective it should not have to be like that.

Should I just stop and join them?

You answered your own question.

[paroxysmal]

We're willing to work with you guys. Don't bring the underdog in a holy war mentality with you, though.

CSG and Rustle have been around a long time. Follow their lead.

There were some big time mobs in that offer, and most of others were FFA if you guys were interested in trying to go from a good haul to a great one.

Willing to work with us? AM wanted ffa and they got what they wanted. They would have found a reason eventually to get what they wanted. They went from 12 mobs last agreement to 25 mobs this agreement (proposed), what would it be in the future? 40? all of them? When is it enough?

You may get CSG and Rustle to bend over and take whatever lessening scraps they can get each time. We will just choose to sit it out and let the server see how greedy AM continues to be. You've lost all sympathy on my part in having to deal with AW on a weekly basis. You two deserve each other.

[Legday]

Ella Ella I have seen good guilds break up and good people fall apart and joining the top guilds due to attitude towards the server like yours.
And this is why I made this thread. To ask if there is another way we can do this other than having to race.
AM and AW are great guilds and they deserve the credit. But it has gotten to the point where they are too good, too strong and have too much influence on the server and people HAVE to join their guild if they want to see any end game pixels and people like you saying other guilds are not entitled to anything.

In my opinion and from my personal perspective it should not have to be like that. I should not be pressured into joining AM and AW who have the advantage of winning races with their numbers and better gear to reach my end game goals and leave my good friends behind and only making them stronger.

And if I did join them the end game velious content will be too easy with no sense of progression because they have been farming that stuff for months/years already.

Newer guilds do not stand a chance when racing these guys and therefore blocked.

Should I just stop and join them?

Back to this, whatever the method of competing for mobs is, there is always going to be 1 or 2 guilds like Aftermath and Awakened that figure out how to do it really well really quickly and leave the other guilds, who may be capable of killing them mob too, well behind the play.

Every time the rules have changed this has happened. Only solutions are enforced rotation or a lot more mobs spawning via Earthquake, reduced respawn timers & variance, etc.

These are facts.

[Legday]

Willing to work with us? AM wanted ffa and they got what they wanted. They would have found a reason eventually to get what they wanted. They went from 12 mobs last agreement to 25 mobs this agreement (proposed), what would it be in the future? 40? all of them? When is it enough?

You may get CSG and Rustle to bend over and take whatever lessening scraps they can get each time. We will just choose to sit it out and let the server see how greedy AM continues to be. You've lost all sympathy on my part in having to deal with AW on a weekly basis. You two deserve each other.

You're just jumping to conclusions here. I'm not going to say much else because it appears to be over-provoking you, but if you trust that we aren't all that bad it might work out for you guys in the long run.

[saujee]

So suggest something. What's your proposed alternative?

I do not have an alternative, I made this thread to see if we can brainstorm something up which is why I put @Sirken on it.

He is the man.

[paroxysmal]

You're just jumping to conclusions here. I'm not going to say much else because it appears to be over-provoking you, but if you trust that we aren't all that bad it might work out for you guys in the long run.

I think the best idea I've come up with so far is some sort of a Bag Limit. Each guild or alliance has a set # per expac, something like 10 (velious)/2(kunark)/1(classic ct/draco/inny/nag/vox)

Just have to keep the top players honest and create punishments for forming separate guilds for alts to get more than their allotment.

This causes the top tier guilds to be selective in what they go after and leaves enough content for the casuals as well.

[Gimp]

Willing to work with us? AM wanted ffa and they got what they wanted. They would have found a reason eventually to get what they wanted. They went from 12 mobs last agreement to 25 mobs this agreement (proposed), what would it be in the future? 40? all of them? When is it enough?

You may get CSG and Rustle to bend over and take whatever lessening scraps they can get each time. We will just choose to sit it out and let the server see how greedy AM continues to be. You've lost all sympathy on my part in having to deal with AW on a weekly basis. You two deserve each other.

So, how many mobs did you get this cycle compared to how many were offered to you as part of the rotation?

As in real mobs, not Fright and Terror.

[Phantasm]

I dont think they are frustrated at the amount proposed this cycle, but the 'unfairness' of raiding competitively as a whole (lol).

Had either Fires/ Venerate operated as a raiding entity during Kunark their perspective would be different Im sure. Fires/Venerate need to step up and perform before they start strong arming any agreements.

[paroxysmal]

So, how many mobs did you get this cycle compared to how many were offered to you as part of the rotation?

Nothing ever got finalized.

The proposed list from the previous agreement w/ am/rustle/csg/fv/infernus/anon/kittens/divinity to the last proposed one for this suspension period were vastly different.

AM went from a modest 12 or so picks to FFA, then relented to 25 mandatory unnegotiable picks.

As I have posted previously, it sets a bad precedent to unfairly balance this towards one guild when we are trying to work together.

I was willing to voluntarily step out of the arrangement altogether with f/v if we could get a fair shake for the other guilds attempting to participate, however, it doesn't appear there ever was a fair offering.

CSG countered the proposed agreement with more FFA(footrace) mobs out of the 25 or so that AM had mandated they were unwilling to compromise on, however, were unsuccessful with any negotiations.


On a positive note, we were successful with our Ring War and are now part of the Ring War rotation. Congrats F/V.

[paroxysmal]

I dont think they are frustrated at the amount proposed this cycle, but the 'unfairness' of raiding competitively as a whole (lol).

Had either Fires/ Venerate operated as a raiding entity during Kunark their perspective would be different Im sure. Fires/Venerate need to step up and perform before they start strong arming any agreements.


probably so, I hear it was said that velious would fix the raid scene, but we can see that it has not, and it introduced how many more mobs/7 days?

[arsenalpow]

raid scene fixes have been proposed ad nauseam, there will be zero changes, you are wasting your time and energy

[Mendo]

probably so, I hear it was said that velious would fix the raid scene, but we can see that it has not, and it introduced how many more mobs/7 days?

In the Kunark days you were unable to raid anything at all unless in IB/TMO until the class system. Velious has changed that. There are a ton of targets for guilds to raid. It sounds like you guys want the best in slot dragons and of course the power guilds don't want to give those up.

[paroxysmal]

raid scene fixes have been proposed ad nauseam, there will be zero changes, you are wasting your time and energy

you are probably right, i just hope not.

[Nexii]

The only alternative to FTE racing that would work is quake pops instead of raid bosses popping on variance. But it's 'not classic' in the eyes of the staff (or at least the devs), so it's not likely.

My counterarguments are
1) This server has ~5-10x the endgame raiders that a classic server would have had. No classic server would have been this overpopulated at the endgame, Verant/Sony would have opened a new shard.
2) FTE racing rules from zoneline and yellow text were never a thing in classic.
3) Nor were GM-enforced one hour or one day mercy rules after an FTE.
4) Staff does quakes when they please anyhow.
5) Adding to this, many raid bosses drop much less loot than on classic. Thus further reducing the size of the pie.

[Phantasm]

probably so, I hear it was said that velious would fix the raid scene, but we can see that it has not, and it introduced how many more mobs/7 days?

Comparatively Id say that Velious has created an avenue for casual guilds to experience high end content without immediate presence at a target, so thats a plus. Additionally, how many more guilds exist now than compared to Kunark era raiding? There may be more targets, but there are twice as many guilds wanting a seat at the table now

[Fasttimes]

Velious is way better then kunark. who wanted to coth duck a whole VS window or 3 premade groups cothing for trak for 30sec engages. you wouldnt compete back then. The mobilization was crazy fast then too. you can be quite lazy now with an hour to kill shit. Nothings perfect but racing is indefinitely better then 20 mages per wing like it use to be and definitely more casual friendly then camping at doubles and aary stairs and jav pulling with instant engages, try doing that casually.

[Ravager]

raid scene fixes have been proposed ad nauseam, there will be zero changes, you are wasting your time and energy
The only change they need to make is to implement the one thing that all raiding guilds agree is the best way to go: full variance earthquakes. Nobody cries during an earthquake and everyone has fun. Instead of dealing with raid petitions all week long, it's one day a week, though most petitions simply wouldn't happen. It's as close to classic as they can get. What reason could there be to not make this a thing?

[Barcelona]

raid scene fixes have been proposed ad nauseam, there will be zero changes, you are wasting your time and energy

Qani could learn a lot from Chest. I think you are wasting your time. Maybe you should watch some of Sirkens old streams, may as well learn some of the server history if your willing to waste your time so much.

[Tankdan]

Bring back Class system.

This content is not new any more. No need to hoard all of it.

[kotton05]

Qani you're just hurting your members as much as you're effecting all of us. It's not like you guys would get much of anything without an agreement and once you show an effective force you then diverge to show you deserve more of the pie. currently you are just creating an environment that will work against you re think it.

[arsenalpow]

9 months ago (https://www.reddit.com/r/project1999/comments/4fw6qw/lets_really_talk_about_high_end_raiding_on_p99/)

me bitching about the raid scene two whole years ago (https://www.reddit.com/r/project1999/comments/2lbrk0/sirken_chest_and_cucumbers_the_long_awaited_link/)

Just go through the raid discussion forum and you can see literally dozens of failed attempts at diplomacy. This has never changed, it will never change. You are literally wasting your time.

[Raev]

raid scene fixes have been proposed ad nauseam, there will be zero changes, you are wasting your time and energy

Yup. I can't believe I'm agreeing with Chest, but Qani your comments are terribly naive. As mind boggling as it is to most players, the staff like things the way they are now. Nilbog only cares about replicating classic mechanics down to the finest detail and couldn't care less what the players do. Sirken was a big powergamer back in the day and has no sympathy for people who don't want to put in the time. Rogean is in between. It would take 1 hour of work for the staff to institute a GM rotation: ask all guilds to submit proposals, pick one, and tell CSG to administer it with Sirken backing them up. The fact that they have not done this means they prefer the current system.

Furthermore, you somehow think you can reputation grief A/A off the server. How exactly do you plan to do this? A/A's style is optimized for the mechanics and rules of this server. To beat them, you have to play like them: FTE poopsock, zone pull, FRAPS, rule lawyer, etc. And the people you have who are willing to play like this will simply join A/A rather than fighting an uphill battle.

I don't understand why CSG and CSG 2.0 don't move to another server. Word on the street is that Daybreak will release another progression server this summer. It seems their mechanics get more classic with every one. You can raid your heart out in your instance. If you want a slower pace, why not play on TAKP or Project 2002? You can eventually experience Planes of Power and these servers are not currently massively overcrowded. Or keep banging your head against the Project 1999 poopsocking wall until you bleed.

[Skew]

Velious is way better then kunark. who wanted to coth duck a whole VS window or 3 premade groups cothing for trak for 30sec engages. you wouldnt compete back then. The mobilization was crazy fast then too. you can be quite lazy now with an hour to kill shit. Nothings perfect but racing is indefinitely better then 20 mages per wing like it use to be and definitely more casual friendly then camping at doubles and aary stairs and jav pulling with instant engages, try doing that casually.

Or getting a PD batphone at 3am and that its our fte and mob will be in camp in 90 seconds

[Maner]

When we kill mobs, any mobs, we roll by population. Its the way CSG does it, and we are very very very open about that whenever we team up with anyone. Infernus accepted this, and has as well in the many times we have killed stuff in the past. They understand the mechanism of RNG over time, and that it all evens out.

So infernus got FTE, stalled until it went ffa when CSG then took FTE and killed it with infernus help? Sounds like breaking the spirit of the rules honestly.

[Culkasi]

So infernus got FTE, stalled until it went ffa when CSG then took FTE and killed it with infernus help? Sounds like breaking the spirit of the rules honestly.

Hm no. Infernus got FTE, realized they couldn't get the bodies to kill, asked CSG to assist, CSG came to assist, we failed the pull a few times, re-FTEed when the hour was up (Aftermath was killing Yelinak at the time I believe) and killed it fairly quickly after.

[Phantasm]

A guild has 1 hour to attempt a target after they have initially FTE'd it. What they do with that 1 hour is theirs. It prevents them from engaging another target so its usually killed quick. What they do with the mob is their business. Any other guild could have taken FTE upon the one hour mark.

Besides, I'm sure no other guild has skirted the spirit of the rules, right?

[kotton05]

Hm no. Infernus got FTE, realized they couldn't get the bodies to kill, asked CSG to assist, CSG came to assist, we failed the pull a few times, re-FTEed when the hour was up (Aftermath was killing Yelinak at the time I believe) and killed it fairly quickly after.

That's a key detail that was left out of what I heard. Makes sense now

[Maner]

Hm no. Infernus got FTE, realized they couldn't get the bodies to kill, asked CSG to assist, CSG came to assist, we failed the pull a few times, re-FTEed when the hour was up (Aftermath was killing Yelinak at the time I believe) and killed it fairly quickly after.

Problem is when a guild gets FTE and obviously can't kill it and then goes past their hour. The mob becomes FFA and then when CSG shows up and claim they got a new FTE the original guild should not be allowed onto the agro table. Not to mention the fact that said dragon hadn't even been up long enough to go to ffa before CSG claimed they got a new FTE. But instead CSG then helped infernus kill the dragon. It's the same shit as some guild who was already locked into a FTE, when say rustle gets statue, from being unable to assist until aow. Basically infernus took a FTE they couldn't kill and delayed an hour so CSG could show up and kill it for them. Seems pretty bullshit

[kotton05]

Even without rotations what we have now is better than what skew quoted

[Culkasi]

Problem is when a guild gets FTE and obviously can't kill it and then goes past their hour. The mob becomes FFA and then when CSG shows up and claim they got a new FTE the original guild should not be allowed onto the agro table. Not to mention the fact that said dragon hadn't even been up long enough to go to ffa before CSG claimed they got a new FTE. But instead CSG then helped infernus kill the dragon. It's the same shit as some guild who was already locked into a FTE, when say rustle gets statue, from being unable to assist until aow. Basically infernus took a FTE they couldn't kill and delayed an hour so CSG could show up and kill it for them. Seems pretty bullshit

I am sure this would be right if you were talking about bullshit guilds full of idiots always looking for loopholes and trying to game the system on the borders of the rules for more pixels. But you are not.

[Maner]

I am sure this would be right if you were talking about bullshit guilds full of idiots always looking for loopholes and trying to game the system on the borders of the rules for more pixels. But you are not.

Problem is something can't be against the rules for one group but ok for another, or else you will never get the raid equality you want...

[Legday]

Problem is when a guild gets FTE and obviously can't kill it and then goes past their hour. The mob becomes FFA and then when CSG shows up and claim they got a new FTE the original guild should not be allowed onto the agro table. Not to mention the fact that said dragon hadn't even been up long enough to go to ffa before CSG claimed they got a new FTE. But instead CSG then helped infernus kill the dragon. It's the same shit as some guild who was already locked into a FTE, when say rustle gets statue, from being unable to assist until aow. Basically infernus took a FTE they couldn't kill and delayed an hour so CSG could show up and kill it for them. Seems pretty bullshit

We've FTEd Vyemm in the morning hours and not been able to get the right force in place within an hour. I'm sure Infernus believed they could kill it within the hour. Nothing wrong with it.

[t3kn34k]

Fixing the current racing rules for more 'fair' competition is simple with a few tweaks to the current system.

-Coth for FTE would be much better (if you're looking for a fair playing field) //this is the most important change. There is always going to be someone doing sketch shit with the footraces... sorry, but its true.
-2 max past zone in (server rules) would mean guilds have to select mage placement based on what is in window.
-Keep the 1hour lock but maybe change the lock a little (1 hour exclusive lock in but also locked out from new FTEs for 1 hour seems to make the most sense)
Add the following mobs to 1hour lock:
-Dain
-Klandicar
-Zlandicar
-Yelinak

EZ
(but no one will read this so continue your regularly scheduled thread)

[Maner]

We've FTEd Vyemm in the morning hours and not been able to get the right force in place within an hour. I'm sure Infernus believed they could kill it within the hour. Nothing wrong with it.

Did we then call in another guild to get the FTE when it "went ffa" and the proceded to help them kill vymme? The difference is Infernus shouldn't have ever been on the agro logs if they had their 1hr and failed. What is stopping every guild of 10 people from running for FTEs and just calling in one of the bigger guilds, or just another casual guild, to help them kill something? I means it's pretty much already a thing, except everyone allows CSG to be 3 entities all racing for the same FTEs.

I mean shit, if this is legal then why shouldn't everyone split into their own smaller guilds to go get FTEs and sell them to bigger guilds?

[Vallanor]

Did we then call in another guild to get the FTE when it "went ffa" and the proceded to help them kill vymme? The difference is Infernus shouldn't have ever been on the agro logs if they had their 1hr and failed. What is stopping every guild of 10 people from running for FTEs and just calling in one of the bigger guilds, or just another casual guild, to help them kill something? I means it's pretty much already a thing, except everyone allows CSG to be 3 entities all racing for the same FTEs.

I mean shit, if this is legal then why shouldn't everyone split into their own smaller guilds to go get FTEs and sell them to bigger guilds?

If you have an active FTE at the time a smaller guild gets their FTE, you can't join them in the fight even after you kill your mob. Basically, you end up being included in their FTE lock and normal server rules apply.

Not sure if that answers your question or not. But in short, there is nothing stopping anyone from splitting into smaller guilds, getting FTEs, then calling in the big guys. Of course, if the big guys don't show and your hour is up, they can just swoop in and take your FTE.

[Phantasm]

What are you looking for here Maner ? An apology ? Infernus gave a mob a shot, realized they were in over their heads and an hour passed with them not securing the mob. CSG got the fresh FTE and said hey infernus we'll show you some things on how we do this mob. Whats wrong with this? You're making mountains out of molehills

[wrighter00]

This has all really just become one big argument over who KSed who's large rat back in the newbie zone that one time.

Gran Turismo, Need for Speed, Rush, Mario Kart. These are all great racing games that I'm not sure why some of you aren't playing instead. If this is where open world PvE MMORPGs have gone, g effin' g.

We haven't been to the Golems in like a month and since we got some SKs/Necros decked out. It's like the one thing though, within the server rules, where we can farm some DKP, get some loot and high value plat items, avoid the race lines, and have some fun. Just stay away please. I'm, personally, not playing Frogger with some of you every week to see who gets raid targets.

I'm sorry we can kill all your raid targets too, and just want to do it for fun sometimes. We have some nerve asking people to share. <3

[Maner]

What are you looking for here Maner ? An apology ? Infernus gave a mob a shot, realized they were in over their heads and an hour passed with them not securing the mob. CSG got the fresh FTE and said hey infernus we'll show you some things on how we do this mob. Whats wrong with this? You're making mountains out of molehills

an apology for what? I was pointing out the kind of precedence this sets. Literally any guild can run for an FTE knowing they wont be able to kill the target and after securing an FTE search the market for one of the raid groups willing to kill it with them. Infernus got screwed by the loot rules CSG uses but im sure a more favorable agreement can be found out there.

The issue i have a problem with is a group securing FTE and failing then being able to get onto the logs for the next entity that attempts the target. That seems completely against the spirit of the rules.

[Phantasm]

They gave it their best shot, ultimately not resulting in a kill. If another guild wants to offer a guild that failed already a shot at success who are you to say otherwise ? Thats how you learn man, not by having neckbeards breathing down your neck while they count out your stopwatch. THey were offered an opportunity to kill a mob that they failed on. The fact they got no loot is beside the point. THey gained experience and vital time on target, perhaps enabling them success in the future.

[Sallan]

What are you looking for here Maner ? An apology ? Infernus gave a mob a shot, realized they were in over their heads and an hour passed with them not securing the mob. CSG got the fresh FTE and said hey infernus we'll show you some things on how we do this mob. Whats wrong with this? You're making mountains out of molehills

We've killed feshlak and other ntov mobs so we are well capable. Being light on numbers didn't help so we needed some assistance. Going past the hour wasn't intended (or expected from my view), but shit happens and then it finally executed.

Not going to comment further on this thread

[Tasslehofp99]

This thread needs to be cleansed with fire.

[Skew]

Literally any guild can run for an FTE knowing they wont be able to kill the target and after securing an FTE search the market for one of the raid groups willing to kill it with them. That seems completely against the spirit of the rules.


Why? Seems fine. Any guild that helps on that FTE is locked out until the target is dead or a wipe or 1 hour. Cant really exploit that system for FTEing multiple targets.
If you make a bunch of smaller guilds you just make more stress over sharing pixels. So this really isnt a big deal. Not seeing where the problem is in "selling FTEs"

If a guild with 5 people in you'd never heard of got a Doze FTE and then said "Aftermath would you like to team up with us on this , we just want 1 tear you take the rest" or w/e loot deal was struck , you'd jump at the chance and why not?
Small guild are locked into Doze and youre locked into Doze.

[bktroost]

Problem is when a guild gets FTE and obviously can't kill it and then goes past their hour. The mob becomes FFA and then when CSG shows up and claim they got a new FTE the original guild should not be allowed onto the agro table. Not to mention the fact that said dragon hadn't even been up long enough to go to ffa before CSG claimed they got a new FTE. But instead CSG then helped infernus kill the dragon. It's the same shit as some guild who was already locked into a FTE, when say rustle gets statue, from being unable to assist until aow. Basically infernus took a FTE they couldn't kill and delayed an hour so CSG could show up and kill it for them. Seems pretty bullshit

according to our rules can you define for me where the infraction occurs if, say, infernus were trying to legitimately kill the dragon and do the pull for 5 hours and successfully got the FTE after the hour was up each time?

This of course didn't happen, but you seem to be predicating your response based on some rule i must not be familiar with.

[bktroost]

Infernus got screwed by the loot rules CSG uses but im sure a more favorable agreement can be found out there.


No they won't. Because precisely what happened would happen again. they would wait out their timer and another guild would get the FTE.

CSG got the FTE after them and didn't need infernus to kill it at that point. It was, by rights, entirely CSGs because of our refte. We then included them in our alliance for that kill like we do for all three of our guilds. Standard contract.


So why would AM ever help Infernus kill it when they could just put some monks there to refte and kill it solo? Or AW? Or rustle?

Your scenario won't ever happen. The only reason it did happen here is because CSG wanted to not leapfrog Infernus and included them on our reFTE because we don't do the highly competitive thing... even though, legally, there is nothing wrong with it.

[Maner]

according to our rules can you define for me where the infraction occurs if, say, infernus were trying to legitimately kill the dragon and do the pull for 5 hours and successfully got the FTE after the hour was up each time?

This of course didn't happen, but you seem to be predicating your response based on some rule i must not be familiar with.

I never said it was a current rule. IMO if you FTE and either wipe or go over your hour and another guild gets the following FTE, you should not be allowed to help. Furthermore the same guild should not be allowed to get a 2nd FTE back to back on the same mob. Otherwise you could use it as a way to stall targets or hold FTEs for other guilds while they are killing something else. Say one guild is killing something in kael so all their runners log onto alt guilds so they can FTE anything that spawns and stall it for an hour. Are you going to keep track of all the alts people have? or are the GMs going to run IP checks to see if they have alts in other guilds?

[bktroost]

I never said it was a current rule. IMO if you FTE and either wipe or go over your hour and another guild gets the following FTE, you should not be allowed to help. Furthermore the same guild should not be allowed to get a 2nd FTE back to back on the same mob. Otherwise you could use it as a way to stall targets or hold FTEs for other guilds while they are killing something else. Say one guild is killing something in kael so all their runners log onto alt guilds so they can FTE anything that spawns and stall it for an hour. Are you going to keep track of all the alts people have? or are the GMs going to run IP checks to see if they have alts in other guilds?

could you give an example of a high end guild using an alt guild like this? Or even two guilds specifically connected like this? Certainly we could do something if manipulation like these were occurring.

[Phantasm]

So say its 3AM and a mob spawns and no guild gets enough to successfully perform the encounter. Guild A gives the mob a shot, and ultimately fails. Guild B gets their shot, and is also unable to kill the target. What you're saying is Guild A/B are not allowed to work together to kill the target? What?

Maybe what you're trying to convey is say AG gets FTE on something and then Omni gets FTE on something else. In my eyes they are separate entities that convene to kill targets. What you're saying is ??? I don't even know.

[Zekayy]

This thread and gave me cancer now

[Pizoi]

Current rules are fine and fair. If the staff wants the smaller guilds to get more loot, all they need to do is do more quakes.

You can't come to the big boys with a tin cup in your filthy hands and expect us to just start giving away top raid targets. It takes a lot of effort to be a top raiding guild, it's absurd to expect some sort of even split of mobs or bag limit while only putting in 10% (being generous here) of the effort that we do.

[Maner]

So say its 3AM and a mob spawns and no guild gets enough to successfully perform the encounter. Guild A gives the mob a shot, and ultimately fails. Guild B gets their shot, and is also unable to kill the target. What you're saying is Guild A/B are not allowed to work together to kill the target? What?

Maybe what you're trying to convey is say AG gets FTE on something and then Omni gets FTE on something else. In my eyes they are separate entities that convene to kill targets. What you're saying is ??? I don't even know.

Easy to make an exception in this case, but when has it honestly been a reality?

The CSG combining for some kills but doing others alone has been a problem in the past. I don't think they have tried to split apart for anything in ToV though as they rarely try to really race for stuff.

could you give an example of a high end guild using an alt guild like this? Or even two guilds specifically connected like this? Certainly we could do something if manipulation like these were occurring.

not saying it is happening right now, just that it opens the door for it to occur. How would you police this? unless you expect the gms to check the IP for anyone who gets a FTE message? i mean sure its possible, but it seems like a lot of extra work.

This thread and gave me cancer now

Seems like a real stupid thing to say, for you especially, zekay....

[Gimp]

Current rules are fine and fair. If the staff wants the smaller guilds to get more loot, all they need to do is do more quakes.

You can't come to the big boys with a tin cup in your filthy hands and expect us to just start giving away top raid targets. It takes a lot of effort to be a top raiding guild, it's absurd to expect some sort of even split of mobs or bag limit while only putting in 10% (being generous here) of the effort that we do.

Holy shit, it's a Pizoi

[wrighter00]

Current rules are fine and fair. If the staff wants the smaller guilds to get more loot, all they need to do is do more quakes.

You can't come to the big boys with a tin cup in your filthy hands and expect us to just start giving away top raid targets. It takes a lot of effort to be a top raiding guild, it's absurd to expect some sort of even split of mobs or bag limit while only putting in 10% (being generous here) of the effort that we do.

I mean... What exactly do you think you put effort into other than FTE races? Did you buy into the exclusive rights to the program coding for ownership of these mobs? In a scenario where FTE races aren't occurring like some people are suggesting, what effort do you think you're putting in? By the basics of the mechanics of the raid targets themselves, you do nothing more capable than any other guild/alliance. STAHP with the "how great are we tho!' No one is telling you to sit at a race line or track targets for an absurd amount of time, bat phone, and feel pressured to mobilize asap except yourselves. That's the whole point some people are making. You don't have to do that so it's a moot point.

Honestly, who gives a hoot if multiple guilds want to work together. Some guilds who want to compete, but wont play on a PvP server, are killing any chance of pick up raid activity or togetherness on a PvE server. You're debating FTE rules, and that's it. Just let people help each other in peace and stop trying to force them to hate and screw each other over or forfeit mobs. Just let the mob go.

[bktroost]

The CSG combining for some kills but doing others alone has been a problem in the past. I don't think they have tried to split apart for anything in ToV though as they rarely try to really race for stuff.

what server do you play on? On p99 blue i have 10+ people every week from AG alone in ToV racing/tracking...almost without exception.

[Maner]

I mean... What exactly do you think you put effort into other than FTE races? Did you buy into the exclusive rights to the program coding for ownership of these mobs? In a scenario where FTE races aren't occurring like some people are suggesting, what effort do you think you're putting in? By the basics of the mechanics of the raid targets themselves, you do nothing more capable than any other guild/alliance. STAHP with the "how great are we tho!' No one is telling you to sit at a race line or track targets for an absurd amount of time, bat phone, and feel pressured to mobilize asap except yourselves. That's the whole point some people are making. You don't have to do that so it's a moot point.

Honestly, who gives a hoot if multiple guilds want to work together. Some guilds who want to compete, but wont play on a PvP server, are killing any chance of pick up raid activity or togetherness on a PvE server. You're debating FTE rules, and that's it. Just let people help each other in peace and stop trying to force them to hate and screw each other over or forfeit mobs. Just let the mob go.

If the mechanics of an encounter are all you ever have to worry about then what would be the point? Killing something that isn't contested is nothing special. I don't play on phinny because just experiencing the content isn't the point. If all you're interested in is doing something you did 15 years ago again for the feels then there are plenty of servers where you don't need to compete to do that.

There were some rotations on live but most of them weren't inclusive to the entire server either. I know on xev for instance Ntov went to whoever killed aary, which meant you had 3-4 guilds racing to kill aary. While it wasn't an FTE race it was still a race and a competition.

On P99 being able to beat the mechanics of an encounter is 10% of the battle, securing the mob is the real fight.

[Zekayy]

Easy to make an exception in this case, but when has it honestly been a reality?

The CSG combining for some kills but doing others alone has been a problem in the past. I don't think they have tried to split apart for anything in ToV though as they rarely try to really race for stuff.



not saying it is happening right now, just that it opens the door for it to occur. How would you police this? unless you expect the gms to check the IP for anyone who gets a FTE message? i mean sure its possible, but it seems like a lot of extra work.



Seems like a real stupid thing to say, for you especially, zekay....

Auto correct -_- hate being on mobile

[wrighter00]

If the mechanics of an encounter are all you ever have to worry about then what would be the point? Killing something that isn't contested is nothing special. I don't play on phinny because just experiencing the content isn't the point. If all you're interested in is doing something you did 15 years ago again for the feels then there are plenty of servers where you don't need to compete to do that.

There were some rotations on live but most of them weren't inclusive to the entire server either. I know on xev for instance Ntov went to whoever killed aary, which meant you had 3-4 guilds racing to kill aary. While it wasn't an FTE race it was still a race and a competition.

On P99 being able to beat the mechanics of an encounter is 10% of the battle, securing the mob is the real fight.

Not raiding. That sounds like the First person shooter crowd mentality. You're saying the raid itself doesn't matter, and asking me what's the point of playing? I'm actually stumped... Just wow.

I guess we can relate a little bit. Although I never played live during this Era, (hence being here) I've been on this server no more than 2 years, and took a 5 month hiatus. There is very little my Druid needs other than obsessing over minor stat changes and maybe a Flowing thought item from CT. On the same note, what's the point of racing people for raid targets? I don't gain any satisfaction from that whatsoever. /shrug

In the words of Ace Ventura "Of course. How selfish of me. Let's do all the things that you wanna do"
https://youtu.be/-EJ6PeVnzCk

[Fasttimes]

Not raiding. That sounds like the First person shooter crowd mentality. You're saying the raid itself doesn't matter, and asking me what's the point of playing? I'm actually stumped... Just wow.

I guess we can relate a little bit. Although I never played live during this Era, (hence being here) I've been on this server no more than 2 years, and took a 5 month hiatus. There is very little my Druid needs other than obsessing over minor stat changes and maybe a Flowing thought item from CT. On the same note, what's the point of racing people for raid targets? I don't gain any satisfaction from that whatsoever. /shrug

In the words of Ace Ventura "Of course. How selfish of me. Let's do all the things that you wanna do"
https://youtu.be/-EJ6PeVnzCk

i think the point you miss that raiding isn't what they want it to be, that is to help the underdog, so is the hour leeway. If it was like it was at release. None of us would get near the pixels we get now. I was on both sides of the river.

edit: before you think i love to race. that would be a joke. I think its dumb. But to ignore the fact that this is better then it was is dumb too. Im not here to fix it tho so w/e.

[wrighter00]

i think the point you miss that raiding isn't what they want it to be, that is to help the underdog, so is the hour leeway. If it was like it was at release. None of us would get near the pixels we get now. I was on both sides of the river.

edit: before you think i love to race. that would be a joke. I think its dumb. But to ignore the fact that this is better then it was is dumb too. Im not here to fix it tho so w/e.

I'm just trying to develop an understanding of some of these mentalities. They don't seem to fit this style of game play. They make shooter games and fighting games and racing games that satisfy the exact competition style game play they want. They actually make PvP MMORPGs also, but these guys don't play on there either. In fact, if the forum is any example, the Red players would chew most of these blue guys up and spit them out.

Take WoW for another example. Even on PvE, you can take a raid force, go raid Stormwind, attack NPCs, get flagged for PvP and fight other players to defend the city and main NPCs. There are also PvP battlefields where you play out story line fights to defend the area from the opposing faction. That's not what Everquest PvE has ever been. Why wouldn't people go play that? These mindsets have shaped this server to be where it is now. Karana forbid anyone else come with a mindset to shape it.

Truth be told, I just want to do the events. I don't care if anyone thinks I'm amazing or winning. So I can only speak for myself. The entitlement actually comes from other places, and some people want a trophy so bad they have to create their own.

[Fasttimes]

I'm just trying to develop an understanding of some of these mentalities. They don't seem to fit this style of game play. They make shooter games and fighting games and racing games that satisfy the exact competition style game play they want. They actually make PvP MMORPGs also, but these guys don't play on there either. In fact, if the forum is any example, the Red players would chew most of these blue guys up and spit them out.

Take WoW for another example. Even on PvE, you can take a raid force, go raid Stormwind, attack NPCs, get flagged for PvP and fight other players to defend the city and main NPCs. There are also PvP battlefields where you play out story line fights to defend the area from the opposing faction. That's not what Everquest PvE has ever been. Why wouldn't people go play that? These mindsets have shaped this server to be where it is now. Karana forbid anyone else come with a mindset to shape it.

Truth be told, I just want to do the events. I don't care if anyone thinks I'm amazing or winning. So I can only speak for myself. The entitlement actually comes from other places, and some people want a trophy so bad they have to create their own.

Why bother trying to figure them out. You figuring out what makes them play it is irrelevant to the raid rules. They hashed them currently out to compromise for casual guilds. Camping at doubles and aary and jav/insta engages is even worse for casuals. Would i prefer a rotation? hell yea. Id rather chill and do it at my convenience. But lets not act like its horrid either, if we could get rid of some training during vulaks, alt tab jumping, and add some sim pops i think things would be a bit better. Add in not 500 people per guild running and competition would be better. Really if they just limit it to 2 racers per guild, things may even a bit up.

[Skew]

Steamrolling 16 yr old content with twice the numbers necessary gets old very fast. If we ever completely did away with FFA id hope we could code raid limits as part of the custom content. EQ was always about being a try-hard. Its not changed. Effort in = reward out.

[wrighter00]

Steamrolling 16 yr old content with twice the numbers necessary gets old very fast. If we ever completely did away with FFA id hope we could code raid limits as part of the custom content. EQ was always about being a try-hard. Its not changed. Effort in = reward out.

I don't think it's horrid by any means. I just came here to share my thoughts like everyone else. Some people are a bit extreme for what it's all worth.

[toastyoven]

All I read from OP is "I want the mobs, but I don't have the skill or patience. So just give me it on a platter"

[Tankdan]

All I read from OP is "I want the mobs, but I don't have the skill or patience. So just give me it on a platter"

Skill and patience.. Thats what you call it?

[Ravager]

All I read from OP is "I want the mobs, but I don't have the skill or patience. So just give me it on a platter"
All I read from you is "hurr durr, I'm willing to waste more time than is necessary or healthy for mobs, so that means I have more skill."

[Troxx]

All I read from OP is "I want the mobs, but I don't have the skill or patience. So just give me it on a platter"

You need more than skill and patience to raid on p99. You literally have to sacrifice ridiculous portions of your life (career vs health vs relationships). I'm not saying you'd have to give it all up but there's no way to actually live a meaningful well balanced life and raid the anything on the high end here.

The poopsocking mentality is just way too prevalent in this community unfortunately.

The real way to win at p99?

Disregard pixelquest and enjoy the little things the game has to offer.

[Phantasm]

Kittens will have Vulak loot

[ismael]

You mean letting Detoxx and Getsome handle everything isn't working out the way they had hoped it would. I'm also very shocked.



Also, Nemce, as I stated in the group chat every time this happens Detoxx is going to come back with an offer of less mobs they are willing to give up and eventually it won't be palatable to any of the guilds looking to cooperate.

To me this just shows how AM really is in regards to their willingness to step out of their gluttony.


They went from 12 mobs last agreement to 25 mobs this agreement (proposed), what would it be in the future? 40? all of them? When is it enough?



Nothing ever got finalized.

AM went from a modest 12 or so picks to FFA, then relented to 25 mandatory unnegotiable picks.





There were some big time mobs in that offer, and most of others were FFA if you guys were interested in trying to go from a good haul to a great one.

I'm SO VERY surprised that Aftermath doesn't want to share the biggest of mobs in the game seeing how benevolent their leader and his cronies make out to be on these forums. I guess that pixel greed is shining through.

The funniest part about all of this is that CSG and F/V actually thought that Rustle and Aftermath wanted what is best for the server when in fact they are in cahoots to get the most pixels for themselves. Sure, if Awakened is banned once, they are willing to share and be nice, but when multiple suspensions hit, they just see the opportunity for more pixels and kick their benevolence to the wayside.

I'm glad the wool seems to be pulled from over the eyes at least.

P.S Fasttimes, every post you make I can just hear heavy mouth breathing.

[Swish]

All I read from you is "hurr durr, I'm willing to waste more time than is necessary or healthy for mobs, so that means I have more skill."

This isn't RNF man :(

[Ravager]

Hey, it's my stalker. Thanks for the tip on forum rules. For as many times you've been banned you would know them best.

[Seedss]

I'd like to see a copy of the proposed raid mob distribution and the associated counter offers.

[Lifebar]

Kittens will have Vulak loot

A-Team will have epics.

[kotton05]

Hey I just met you and this is crazy.

But We wiped on PD because merkk just trained me.

[Pizoi]

On the same note, what's the point of racing people for raid targets? I don't gain any satisfaction from that whatsoever. /shrug

Have you done it? It's quite fun and satisfying getting that yellow text!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P2b_ygxIRY

[stifling]

"How will other guilds who have the force to kill these targets get a fair and legitimate chance at that these targets"

Your definition of fairness clearly isn't what rational people use...
"in accordance with the rules or standards; legitimate"

Your definition of fair is about forced equality, entitlement and bitching until people tire of your bitching and give in. The rules should not change based on your desire to have what others have without doing what others do to get it. Not talking about bitching, not talking about cheating, talking about abiding by the rules and workign towards a goal like others have done and been successful.

The OP is looking for a way for his stagnant DKP or his status in his guild to net him more BiS items by forcing others to give him/her access to what what he/she wants.

[saujee]

"How will other guilds who have the force to kill these targets get a fair and legitimate chance at that these targets"

Your definition of fairness clearly isn't what rational people use...
"in accordance with the rules or standards; legitimate"

Your definition of fair is about forced equality, entitlement and bitching until people tire of your bitching and give in. The rules should not change based on your desire to have what others have without doing what others do to get it. Not talking about bitching, not talking about cheating, talking about abiding by the rules and workign towards a goal like others have done and been successful.

The OP is looking for a way for his stagnant DKP or his status in his guild to net him more BiS items by forcing others to give him/her access to what what he/she wants.



your attitude is terrible sir. If that is how you see the world.

[Pokesan]

"How will other guilds who have the force to kill these targets get a fair and legitimate chance at that these targets"

Your definition of fairness clearly isn't what rational people use...
"in accordance with the rules or standards; legitimate"

Your definition of fair is about forced equality, entitlement and bitching until people tire of your bitching and give in. The rules should not change based on your desire to have what others have without doing what others do to get it. Not talking about bitching, not talking about cheating, talking about abiding by the rules and workign towards a goal like others have done and been successful.

The OP is looking for a way for his stagnant DKP or his status in his guild to net him more BiS items by forcing others to give him/her access to what what he/she wants.

do you think the current raid rules are "rational"?

[stifling]

your attitude is terrible sir. If that is how you see the world.

If I see the world in a way that requires people to be eligible for something based on merit alone?

While I do see that joining top guilds like A/A is not exactly meritorious in its own right, the race system at least puts guilds on somewhat equal footing barring any kind of cheating that does occur. What is preventing you from standing on the line and running like the rest of them? They may have more runners than you, but each runner is still capable of losing to any other runner, including you, provided you have worked to reach the level of acheivement that they have.

Quit asking for a handout and stop getting triggered because others have more free time than you do and choose to spend it on this game, you should really pity them. Enjoy the game for what it can be for you.

[stifling]

do you think the current raid rules are "rational"?

Rational seems to be a good way to describe it as it allows many more guilds to have an equal shot at content and a reasonable window in which to make that attempt.


Show me another system that works better, propose something that is better

[stifling]

Rational people work for what they expect to get, sure things do not always go in their favor (RNG), but effort will always bring results in any system that is not rigged to favor one party over another.

How is the current system rigged to favor one party over another?

[Daldaen]

Set aside 5-6 targets for neckbeards to neckbeard on. Vulak, Tormax, AoW, Dozekar, Cazic Thule and Sleepers Tomb.

Rotate the rest. Make the neckbeard targets have only respect FTE rule. No memblurring or kill stealing. Train, Kite, stall, pull, summon tank, whatever you want to do. Have fun in your neckbeard world.

[Vallanor]

Set aside 5-6 targets for neckbeards to neckbeard on. Vulak, Tormax, AoW, Dozekar, Cazic Thule and Sleepers Tomb.

Rotate the rest. Make the neckbeard targets have only respect FTE rule. No memblurring or kill stealing. Train, Kite, stall, pull, summon tank, whatever you want to do. Have fun in your neckbeard world.

My thoughts exactly.

[arsenalpow]

Set aside 5-6 targets for neckbeards to neckbeard on. Vulak, Tormax, AoW, Dozekar, Cazic Thule and Sleepers Tomb.

Rotate the rest. Make the neckbeard targets have only respect FTE rule. No memblurring or kill stealing. Train, Kite, stall, pull, summon tank, whatever you want to do. Have fun in your neckbeard world.

With those 5-6 targets that fall into a rotation once in a while as well so they aren't permanently locked behind shitbaggery

[Daldaen]

With those 5-6 targets that fall into a rotation once in a while as well so they aren't permanently locked behind shitbaggery

Nah gotta lock them permanently behind shitbaggery. It allows neckbeards to justify neckbeardery.

With a complete rotation there would be minimal reason for a person to want to neckbeard. Having 100 more AC and 200 more HP than a casual is the justification people want.

[arsenalpow]

Chest took days off work to be the 15th best guild on phinny.

Incorrect. Sitting in a meeting right now wasting the governments money.

[Fasttimes]

I would be happy if it was just 2 runners per guild

[arsenalpow]

Nah gotta lock them permanently behind shitbaggery. It allows neckbeards to justify neckbeardery.

With a complete rotation there would be minimal reason for a person to want to neckbeard. Having 100 more AC and 200 more HP than a casual is the justification people want.

Locking them permanently is dumb. Maybe every 90 days the select mobs get rotated for a cycle.

[stifling]

Thank you to those who actually want to propose solutions instead is bullshit whine for what they feel entitled to.

I think that what CSG was able to accomplish during the first round of bannings a few weeks ago was a great model... IE, any kind of rotation that is agreed upon by the guilds involved is awesome.

[Pan]

I think that what CSG was able to accomplish during the first round of bannings a few weeks ago was a great model... IE, any kind of rotation that is agreed upon by the guilds involved is awesome.

Getsome (of Rustle) deserves the lion's share of the credit on all the sharing deals that have been cut on the recent bans...just for the record.

[Daldaen]

Locking them permanently is dumb. Maybe every 90 days the select mobs get rotated for a cycle.

Meh. We shall have to disagree then. There are certain mobs that won't ever get rotated. Just like it was in Class C/R days. VP was locked off. It's logical that the very tip top content should be in the hardcore neckbeard wheelhouse only. It's one of the draws for these guilds to recruit.

For a regular old player not having access to the mobs listed they can still get Flowing Thought and nearly BiS weapons and nearly BiS gear in most every slot. Not that gear really matters. For many they just want to have a scheduled time they can show up in NToV and kill Feshlak and Dagarn for example.

[Fasttimes]

Doubtful. When those two runners in one guild still dominate the whole competition. Then this will become a problem. Quality always > quantity.

Rustle has decent runners

[arsenalpow]

Meh. We shall have to disagree then. There are certain mobs that won't ever get rotated. Just like it was in Class C/R days. VP was locked off. It's logical that the very tip top content should be in the hardcore neckbeard wheelhouse only. It's one of the draws for these guilds to recruit.

For a regular old player not having access to the mobs listed they can still get Flowing Thought and nearly BiS weapons and nearly BiS gear in most every slot. Not that gear really matters. For many they just want to have a scheduled time they can show up in NToV and kill Feshlak and Dagarn for example.

But velious was always on the horizon, now this is it. Locking mobs behind shitbaggery with no future in perpetuity doesn't make sense.

[Daldaen]

Limiting runners benefits no one. Still you have to shit in a sock for 16 hours until Zlexak spawns.

If you could get Rogean to reduce Variance to 2 hours on the condition everyone agrees to only 2 runners, every guild would sign onboard to this agreement immediately.

Simultaneously reducing the staffs concern about poopsocking numbers being massive and leveling the playing field atleast number wise.

[Fasttimes]

Limiting runners benefits no one. Still you have to shit in a sock for 16 hours until Zlexak spawns.

If you could get Rogean to reduce Variance to 2 hours on the condition everyone agrees to only 2 runners, every guild would sign onboard to this agreement immediately.

Simultaneously reducing the staffs concern about poopsocking numbers being massive and leveling the playing field atleast number wise.

It does help tho. You don't have to compete with current rules vs 30. It actually would be even more skill based which A/A seems to love. Put your best 2 on the line stagger your sow refresh. Hey and less dkp you have to give afk warm bodies on the line.

[Daldaen]

It does help tho. You don't have to compete with current rules vs 30. It actually would be even more skill based which A/A seems to love. Put your best 2 on the line stagger your sow refresh. Hey and less dkp you have to give afk warm bodies on the line.

That doesn't quell the casuals prime complaint. Sitting on a line for 16 hours waiting for a target to spawn is dumb. It does quell the staffs prime complaint, rampant poopsocking leading to in some cases zone desynchs and server instability. Which should lead to them removing their custom Variance which was designed on purpose to stop the former issue.

But nothing they've done has ever indicated they're willing to reduce Variance even if the guilds come together to agreed to reducing poopsocking which I think they all will do unanimously if Variance reduction is on the table. Especially since the racing rules make it largely irrelevant.

[Fasttimes]

I mean if you know they won't reduce variance and do more sim repops. You know A/A hates rotations. Atleast limiting runners evens things out some. What else can we do?

[saujee]

Racing vs Rotations
what are the pros and cons of each?

[Daldaen]

Accept that this servers raid scene will always be a cluster? I'll call that the BDA route.

You've got two different view points that will never agree. The casuals will keep shouting "we just want to experience raid content without having to track 16 hour Windows and race" and the hardcore will keep shouting "why don't you show up to race and put in the effort if you want these mobs". It's like Democrats and Republicans yelling at each other. Rustle is a prime example of this. They were one of those parties, decided to change their priorities and now are the other party complaining about the very shit they did for months and years in the past. That's mostly why I find Getsome showboating about sharing laughable.

It's a difference of opinion that cannot be reconciled. Your best bet is to come to some treaties on the crappy Lord Feshlaks of the world in exchange for a no-compete on Vulak or Dozekar, their preciouses.

[Legday]

Tightening variance alone won't change anything other than sometimes allowing many mobs to be up at once, but unless it's an earthquake or server reset, smaller guilds rarely take advantage of all of the Velious windows overlapping, like they could.

The only things that will keep the top guilds from killing just about everything is either 1)reducing respawn times or frequently repopping the server or 2)enforcing a rotation and/or class system.

If the above statement doesn't make sense you either haven't been here very long, or for some reason you have trouble learning from patterns.

[Fasttimes]

Accept that this servers raid scene will always be a cluster? I'll call that the BDA route.

You've got two different view points that will never agree. The casuals will keep shouting "we just want to experience raid content without having to track 16 hour Windows and race" and the hardcore will keep shouting "why don't you show up to race and put in the effort if you want these mobs". It's like Democrats and Republicans yelling at each other. Rustle is a prime example of this. They were one of those parties, decided to change their priorities and now are the other party complaining about the very shit they did for months and years in the past. That's mostly why I find Getsome showboating about sharing laughable.

It's a difference of opinion that cannot be reconciled. Your best bet is to come to some treaties on the crappy Lord Feshlaks of the world in exchange for a no-compete on Vulak or Dozekar, their preciouses.

I'm just providing something to help from casual standpoint your solution would be great but it requires more then player made agreement.

[Swish]

More earthquakes is still the best prescription.

[Fasttimes]

Sure earthquakes would rock but that's not a solution players can fix.

[Daldaen]

I'm just providing something to help from casual standpoint your solution would be great but it requires more then player made agreement.
What I'm saying is more than a player made agreement is required. The two sides will never agree unless forced to, or until the scene is improved such that their agreement isn't necessary.

[Fasttimes]

Maybe but we can't control the csr staff and even if we do agree they have to be willing to put in the effort. That's a lot of ifs. Thinking of controllable solutions sounds better.

[Daldaen]

It's like talking to a brick wall... there aren't any controllable solutions. Some things are just outside of your (collective) hands.

[Fasttimes]

Your not. I'm not diagreeiing. I'm saying there's things you can do within current confides to help. It's not that hard.

[Erati]

I just dont understand why enjoying the mobilization races is a mentality for PvP server or FPS games according to some.

its like you never played Everquest when an expansion was current: you are always racing for high value mobs when they spawn versus people from all time zones.

The rush of winning those encounters, especially when you have to engage before you really want to, is why this game is so addicting for some.