Triple Attack! Items That Will Be In Demand!

[saujee]

So our next patch will introduce Triple Attack to P1999 Monks.
So items like T-Staff, IFS, Peacebringer will be in demand? Are we expecting some price inflation on them?

[Jimjam]

How does triple attack work? is it primary only or does it just disproportionately effect primary, making stacking dps into your primary slot more desirable?

[paulgiamatti]

Well, it will affect primary more than secondary simply because primary swings at a fixed rate, therefore you'll see more triple attacks from that hand. Secondary "procs" with each primary swing, but triple attack will still affect that hand per swing at the same rate as it does your primary hand.

It's basically just like double attack, though I'm unsure of its proc rate. You'll still double attack with triple attack, you'll just have triple attacks mixed in with your doubles.

[Kagey]

I remember reading it only effects main hand thats why 2handers are a higher parse.

[maskedmelon]

It will only affect primary hand. That the way the patch notes read. That the reason 2h weapons will become more valuable. It is also L60 only ^^

[Jimjam]

It will only affect primary hand. That the way the patch notes read. That the reason 2h weapons will become more valuable. It is also L60 only ^^

Thanks. Lets go with the patch notes!

[paulgiamatti]

I stand corrected - can someone link those patch notes?

Although, I am reading that triple attack would only proc on a double attack, essentially replacing the double with a triple, making a maximum of five hits per round (https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/damage-up-via-leveling-or-skill-increase.155030/#post-2207269). There is also some speculation that at first it was implemented as both a primary and secondary feature, and changed soon after (http://www.eqoutrider.net/eqforums/viewtopic.php?p=36908&sid=7ae70747d4cf60e76f2c39459b33bf7b#p36908) - patch notes would help to nullify this. I quit my level 60 monk on live right after this was implemented, and all I remember is my fist melee spam being absolutely insane.

[HouseTargaryen]

WTS T-staff 200k ^_^

[Kagey]

I stand corrected - can someone link those patch notes?

Although, I am reading that triple attack would only proc on a double attack, essentially replacing the double with a triple, making a maximum of five hits per round (https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/damage-up-via-leveling-or-skill-increase.155030/#post-2207269). There is also some speculation that at first it was implemented as both a primary and secondary feature, and changed soon after (http://www.eqoutrider.net/eqforums/viewtopic.php?p=36908&sid=7ae70747d4cf60e76f2c39459b33bf7b#p36908) - patch notes would help to nullify this. I quit my level 60 monk on live right after this was implemented, and all I remember is my fist melee spam being absolutely insane.

Yes I also remember this nerf to monks. They were parsing higher then rogs on tov raids and really became insanely OP.
I would like to experience this OP monk myself before nerf hammer comes down.

[Dreenk317]

If I understand my patch timelines correctly. Which I very well might not, this will never get nerfed, as it did on live. Because the patch that nerfed it back to some normalcy didn't come till luclin. So ya... looks like monks might be the end of the line when looking for melee dps.

[Swish]

Monks really needed buffing didnt they? :p

Did the SKs/pallies get their defense cap raised?

[fastboy21]

**braces for "is this a classic feature?" argument**

[Rygar]

Playing a monk myself I'm excited for this, but admit it makes it way too easy mode and OP, even at 60. Would rather they strip this as custom content and balance other classes like wizards with crits, dot stacking, knights defense caps, etc. Strictly by patching, no dumb AAs to fix your class when you finally hit 60 and have to grind again to make your class useful

[paulgiamatti]

They should've given all of the monk things to rangers.

[Naethyn]

As a warrior who has enjoyed a triple attack 2h for a while and uses it as my primary dps this is what I've learned. The faster delay 2h with the same ratio will do more damage then its higher delay counterpart. This may not exactly translate to monks because of crippling blows, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does.

[Swish]

They should've given all of the monk things to rangers.

I'm not a big fan of rangers but I agree lol

[Naethyn]

Lets give warriors block while using a shield while we're at it.

[Detoxx]

As a warrior who has enjoyed a triple attack 2h for a while and uses it as my primary dps this is what I've learned. The faster delay 2h with the same ratio will do more damage then its higher delay counterpart. This may not exactly translate to monks because of crippling blows, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does.

2h worst DPS for Warriors bra

[EdTuBrutus]

Monks definitely need a boost at this point. Monks have to put in a lot of effort but still get outdpsed by Rogues who have no proper involvement in the game, so get away with just reading webpages between begging for buffs then turn around and top the DPS pressing two buttons.

[Brut]

Pandered class deserves nothing extra, just a quad flurry of attacks from nerf bat.
Remove monk from Sanctum Guardian Ear pronto. Priest earring. Humbug.

[EdTuBrutus]

Pandered class deserves nothing extra, just a quad flurry of attacks from nerf bat.
Remove monk from Sanctum Guardian Ear pronto. Priest earring. Humbug.

Exactly, its time to buff classes that need a lot of involvement, Shaman, MOnks, Enchanters, Bards need much more, while Rogues and Warriors need nerfed heavily. Good call.

[paulgiamatti]

I think that's partially their original reasoning behind it - by that point they'd surely realized monks are typically out there doing the heavy lifting while the rest of the raid/group sits on their butts. That and back then the weight penalty was probably more of a burden, since the economy wasn't broken and Tinker/Dragon bags were much more difficult to obtain.

I don't think the defense increase really means a lot on P99 though, they'll still have shitty aggro even if they're doing more DPS. Warriors will still be tanking endgame raid mobs because of disciplines, etc. Now that everyone is more or less geared out in Velious stuff, taking a beating isn't much to boast about. It will be great for the solo/duo/trio artists.

[Brut]

That or a Verant dev mained a monk and figured "I want 60ac pants with 100hp! Who cares if no other class gets anything that insane, even the tanks?! MONKS CAN BE THE TANKS TOO! AND THE TOP DPS! HECK, MEND SHOULD WORK LIKE LOH!"

I just always think of noob comic and the ranger replaced with monks. Only reason I'd wanna see moon kitties is so the server wont stagnate in this wretched lizard monk master race state.

[Jimjam]

They should've given all of the monk things to rangers.

I think the biggest problem with balance regarding monks is from their inception they were meant to be balanced by limited itemisation; look at vanilla sure they had the best melee skills, but they had to deal with crappy 1hb/2hb ratios (compared to slash/pierce) and especially heavy weapons. They couldn't use smithed armour types, leaving very few high AC pieces.

Kunark rolls around and turned this on its head; instead giving monks the best ratio weapons, often with low delay, and eventually access to all/all equipment with ludicrous AC. By Velious the shark has been jumped and monks now have the best melee skills, the best weapons and sometimes even the best worn ac on class specific armor (Barbie legs -this one item alone took monks to 1/5th of the early Velious AC cap).

I don't know who was in charge of itemisation in everquests, but surely they had to play a monk!? At least it provides us with a really solid melee class for min maxers!

[Brut]

Thankfully Shroud of Completelyutterlybroken doesn't drop anymore.
At that point the dev maining a monk said to himself "man, if only I could wear PD robe and fungi at the same ti- OHWAIT A MINUTE".

[EdTuBrutus]

That or a Verant dev mained a monk and figured "I want 60ac pants with 100hp! Who cares if no other class gets anything that insane, even the tanks?! MONKS CAN BE THE TANKS TOO! AND THE TOP DPS! HECK, MEND SHOULD WORK LIKE LOH!"

I just always think of noob comic and the ranger replaced with monks. Only reason I'd wanna see moon kitties is so the server wont stagnate in this wretched lizard monk master race state.

Monks were the best tanks in vanilla. As long as they didn't wear those utterly stupid AC free stat items. It was not a change in Kunark or Velious. The main issue in vanilla was the lack of people who understood that stats were meaningless and AC was all.

IIRC Warriors could not hit 1000AC in vanilla. Monks could.

[Skew]

Monks were the best tanks in vanilla. As long as they didn't wear those utterly stupid AC free stat items. It was not a change in Kunark or Velious. The main issue in vanilla was the lack of people who understood that stats were meaningless and AC was all.

For shitting around in Sebilis sure. Youre not about to see monks get put into the tank chain on AoW or ToV though. And if youre not a warrior , HP > all for raiding (after MR)
AoEs dont care about your AC.

[Rygar]

Monks definitely need a boost at this point. Monks have to put in a lot of effort but still get outdpsed by Rogues who have no proper involvement in the game, so get away with just reading webpages between begging for buffs then turn around and top the DPS pressing two buttons.

Basically then a monk will be top DPS by hitting 1 button, auto-attack. Monks don't need any kind of DPS boost to be honest. We have a lot of utility with FD / Sneak / Mend / High Skill Caps / Epic haste buff. Knights are always shafted along with wizards, rangers, and DoT classes (for shame a necro should just twitch raids and a shaman should just torpor / spam heal / buff, same for druid). Would be nice to see some other classes with more raid / group utility. Monks can already tank well in a group and even handle rampage on some mobs.

[Skew]

Basically then a monk will be top DPS by hitting 1 button, auto-attack. Monks don't need any kind of DPS boost to be honest. We have a lot of utility with FD / Sneak / Mend / High Skill Caps / Epic haste buff. Knights are always shafted along with wizards, rangers, and DoT classes (for shame a necro should just twitch raids and a shaman should just torpor / spam heal / buff, same for druid). Would be nice to see some other classes with more raid / group utility. Monks can already tank well in a group and even handle rampage on some mobs.

I assumed Ed was just trolling with his post about Monks needing a boost. Theyre already the majority of peoples 2nd mains/alts and a good chunk of the populations mains. Not the sort of numbers that suggest a class needs a boost.

[deezy]

Every melee gets a little something during that patch. Bards get on the warrior damage table & can use epic in off-hand without a penalty, rangers get a buff to their atk stat, monks get tripple attack, warriors can switch hands on epics, knights get the 2handed buffs, and some high end rogue daggers get upgraded. It's a pretty nice patch overall for melee.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-2001-2.html

* Summary of Melee Changes *

- Two-Handed Weapons have been given an increased damage bonus for
characters over level 50. Also, certain post-epic quality two-handers
have been improved.

- Warriors have had their taunt skill cap increased to 230 at 60th
level. Also, the Blades of Strategy and Tactics can now be used in
either hand.

- Rogues, as the primary user of piercing weapons, will benefit from an
improvement in the quality of a few existing high-end daggers. At some
future date new piercing weapons will be added to the game to fill gaps
in equipment availability.

- Monks will now be on an improved combat table at levels 55 and again
to a better table at 60. Monks now have the ability to Triple Attack at
60th level. The minimum damage done by Flying Kick will be greatly
increased for monks starting at 51st level and scaling up to level 60.
We also intend to add more monk weapons in the future to fill equipment
gaps.

- Rangers have their Double Attack skill cap raised to 245. They have
also gained an innate offensive bonus that starts at level 55 and
increases until level 60. Ranger's Defense skill cap has been raised to
220, and their Riposte skill cap has been raised to 185.

- Paladins and Shadowknights, besides the benefits they gain from the
two-handed weapons change mentioned above, have also been moved to the
same combat tables as warriors. In the future we intend to examine the
existing one-handed weapons useable by knights for possible upgrades.
We are also increasing the Taunt skill cap for these two classes to
220.

- Bards have had their 1h blunt and 1h slash skill caps increased to
250. Their piercing skill cap has been increased to 240. Their Offense
skill cap has been raised to 252. Bards are also being moved to the
same combat table with all the other melee and hybrid classes (save
monks who have separate tables after level 55). Bards Parry skill cap
has been raised to 185 as well. Finally, the Singing Shortsword can now
be equipped in the off hand and still give full song enhancing
benefits.

[Jimjam]

- Spiderling and Spider Silks are now stackable
(Jul 10, 20001)

OMG we been cheating hard!

[Ele]

- Spiderling and Spider Silks are now stackable
(Jul 10, 20001)

OMG we been cheating hard!

Yep, it was classic to keep a sewing kit on you to make swatches so you could stack them.

[Sorn]

- Spiderling and Spider Silks are now stackable
(Jul 10, 2001)

OMG we been cheating hard!

I actually pointed this out to devs a while ago and although we won't see it on this server, we'll see it on the new one.

Enjoy your stackables while they last!

[maskedmelon]

- Spiderling and Spider Silks are now stackable
(Jul 10, 20001)

OMG we been cheating hard!

I actually pointed this out to devs a while ago and although we won't see it on this server, we'll see it on the new one.

Enjoy your stackables while they last!


Good catches. Imma unstack all my silks now and destroy any that I don't have room for before I get back to tailoring ^^ Maybe I'll get quicker skill-ups working with fresh silk straight from the spider's bum? :/

[azeth]

fresh silk straight from the spider's bum? :/

silk isn't spider poo

[Erati]

stuff

miss u

[maskedmelon]

silk isn't spider poo

Didn't say it was. It does come from their bums though. Also, I don't know if it is poo, or slobber or what, but spiders make nasty spots of white stuff below where they hang out. Like if you have one in a web over your patio or something, down below him on the ground or rail or whatever will be flaky crusty white spots that ain't so easy to clean! :c

Think it silk?

[Jimjam]

Spider Jizz!

[Rygar]

Nice to see a bard parry skill will be raised from 75 to 185... wonder how much this will help avoid damage? Love me a bard tank, Astuce is king.

[fiveeauxfour]

which 2hb would be better between abashi (40/30 = 1.333_) and trorsmang (42/35 = 1.31) considering rework to 2hb and monk damage tables?


- Two-Handed Weapons have been given an increased damage bonus for
characters over level 50. Also, certain post-epic quality two-handers
have been improved.

- Monks will now be on an improved combat table at levels 55 and again
to a better table at 60

[Thiefboy777]

With the damage bonus chart I just googled....

Weapons with a delay of 30 have a damage bonus of 29 at level 60. 35 delay has a bonus of 31.

lucy.allakhazam.com/dmgbonus.html

[Crevex]

Monks really need Ice Comet imo. Instant cast Ice Comet.

[korilla]

if this is like the last velious patch and there's no new content...I don't see this patch coming for a long, long time because then there's nothing more to look forward to!

[xKoopa]

Knights/bards/rangers still broken lol

This aint happenin for a couple years

[saujee]

there seems to be constant flow of old players quitting and new players joining. when there are no more patches i am sure p99 will stay good. the cycle of players will continue.

[kotton05]

WTS T-staff 200k ^_^

Tstaff will still be junk. It has to do with a higher delay. Maybe the IFS will go up.

[kotton05]

which 2hb would be better between abashi (40/30 = 1.333_) and trorsmang (42/35 = 1.31) considering rework to 2hb and monk damage tables?


- Two-Handed Weapons have been given an increased damage bonus for
characters over level 50. Also, certain post-epic quality two-handers
have been improved.

- Monks will now be on an improved combat table at levels 55 and again
to a better table at 60

Bo staff way better if not one of the best after patch. Because abashi doesn't get the bonus due to delays.

[saujee]

Bo staff > Tstaff but requires access to Veeshan's Peak.

[Cecily]

I look forward to continue to making fun of monk DPS after this is implemented.

[Raev]

Only reason I'd wanna see moon kitties is so the server wont stagnate in this wretched lizard monk master race state.

The real problem is that Monks are way too good at pulling due to 3rd person Titanium scroll, sneak (classic seems to be that sneak pulling just does not work, and it certainly shouldn't clear FD memory) and everyone and their brother having Holgresh Elder Beads.

And for the OP: Monk 2H will get a huge boost. Abashi's will be a bit better than Gharns/FoN, the Bo Staff of Trorsmang will be pretty comparable to FoN/Primal, and the Tranquil Staff will be pretty comparable to two Sky fists. So load up on your 2H now!

[Raev]

Tstaff will still be junk. It has to do with a higher delay. Maybe the IFS will go up.

You can see the damage bonus table here (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/dmgbonus.html); it scales smoothly with delay for weapons with 28 or more delay, which includes the Tranquil Staff.

[saujee]

I got my Tstaff for 30k standard price a week ago for my monk, So I guess i don't need to worry about any price inflation when that patch comes in. #HappyMonk4eva.

[Ravager]

T-Staff better than RFS?

[Freakish]

Raev, how's facesmasher rank on that list? 48/42.

[Raev]

2.0 multiplier which is pretty reasonable for a monk with avatar vs a Velious dragon (something like 2.6 is more reasonable vs XP targets and 110ish dps should be possible). Assumes high resists; Fist of Nature actually does 5 DPS from procs alone which moves it up a lot vs XP targets, if you don't mind letting every caster gate/ch on you. Does not include time switching out to primals to proc; if you are pulling a lot Gharn's/Primal is probably vs spending 50% of your melee time trying to proc a primal with Abashi's.

Primary Secondary Raw
Upgraded Abashi's Rod of Disempowerment 89.83
Upgraded Gharn's Rock of Smashing Fist of Nature 88.21
Upgraded Gharn's Rock of Smashing Primal Velium Fistwraps 85.47
Wurmscale Fistwraps Fist of Lightning 83.24
Baton of Flame Primal Velium Fistwraps 83.19
Fist of Nature Primal Velium Fistwraps 83.11
Upgraded Bo Staff of Trorsmang 81.78
Primal Velium Fistwraps Fist of Lightning 80.58
Wurmscale Fistwraps Primal Velium Fistwraps 80.50
Upgraded Shovel of the Harvest 79.47
Upgraded Rocksmasher 79.09
Primal Velium Fistwraps Primal Velium Fistwraps 77.84
Upgraded Facesmasher 77.40
Wurmscale Fistwraps Primal Velium Battlehammer 77.22
Upgraded Tranquil Staff 76.65
Wu's Fist of Mastery Wu's Fist of Mastery 74.91
Upgraded Primal Velium Brawl Stick 72.47
Monk Epic Fist Sceptre of Mastery 67.82
Adamantite Club Stave of Shielding 63.66
Master Wu's Trance Stick Master Wu's Trance Stick 50.41

Facesmasher has a worse ratio than the bo staff, so it's not surprising that it's pretty poor. Also note that even with the boosts Rogues should still be 10-15% ahead, which is pretty balanced.

[loramin]

if this is like the last velious patch and there's no new content...I don't see this patch coming for a long, long time because then there's nothing more to look forward to!

After the last patch is coded the P99 team will finally be able to release the "truly Classic" server (ie. one that starts with the same ruleset that vanilla started with, and then proceeds through the patches at the same rate as on live).

I most certainly am looking forward to that server.

[Spit]

After the last patch is coded the P99 team will finally be able to release the "truly Classic" server (ie. one that starts with the same ruleset that vanilla started with, and then proceeds through the patches at the same rate as on live).

I most certainly am looking forward to that server.

I don't think they are allowed to do this because of Daybreak

[kotton05]

You can see the damage bonus table here (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/dmgbonus.html); it scales smoothly with delay for weapons with 28 or more delay, which includes the Tranquil Staff.

But is that the table that will be implemented? I remember reading it's over 30 that the bonus gets applied and anything 30 and under stay relatively the same minus the trip attack bonus.

Can't find a source on it and that table goes to level 65. Maybe be diff than what we will experience.

[kotton05]

T-Staff better than RFS?

Rfs is only better at lower levels till the damage cap is lifted

[nectarprime]

I don't think they are allowed to do this because of Daybreak

Source?

[koros]

2.0 multiplier which is pretty reasonable for a monk with avatar vs a Velious dragon (something like 2.6 is more reasonable vs XP targets and 110ish dps should be possible). Assumes high resists; Fist of Nature actually does 5 DPS from procs alone which moves it up a lot vs XP targets, if you don't mind letting every caster gate/ch on you. Does not include time switching out to primals to proc; if you are pulling a lot Gharn's/Primal is probably vs spending 50% of your melee time trying to proc a primal with Abashi's.

Primary Secondary Raw
Upgraded Abashi's Rod of Disempowerment 89.83
Upgraded Gharn's Rock of Smashing Fist of Nature 88.21
Upgraded Gharn's Rock of Smashing Primal Velium Fistwraps 85.47
Wurmscale Fistwraps Fist of Lightning 83.24
Baton of Flame Primal Velium Fistwraps 83.19
Fist of Nature Primal Velium Fistwraps 83.11
Upgraded Bo Staff of Trorsmang 81.78
Primal Velium Fistwraps Fist of Lightning 80.58
Wurmscale Fistwraps Primal Velium Fistwraps 80.50
Upgraded Shovel of the Harvest 79.47
Upgraded Rocksmasher 79.09
Primal Velium Fistwraps Primal Velium Fistwraps 77.84
Upgraded Facesmasher 77.40
Wurmscale Fistwraps Primal Velium Battlehammer 77.22
Upgraded Tranquil Staff 76.65
Wu's Fist of Mastery Wu's Fist of Mastery 74.91
Upgraded Primal Velium Brawl Stick 72.47
Monk Epic Fist Sceptre of Mastery 67.82
Adamantite Club Stave of Shielding 63.66
Master Wu's Trance Stick Master Wu's Trance Stick 50.41

Facesmasher has a worse ratio than the bo staff, so it's not surprising that it's pretty poor. Also note that even with the boosts Rogues should still be 10-15% ahead, which is pretty balanced.

What equation are these calcs based on?

[kotton05]

What equation are these calcs based on?

Also I noticed he used the word upgraded a lot. I know the bo staff and other 2hb get a healthy change and the, priceless/primal brawl stick change(the priceless is already upgraded) but I can't find a mention of the other mentioned weapons.

[koros]

I figured out what those equations are based on...

What %s did you throw in there for swings per round, hit rate, and (average hit - db)?

[Jimjam]

I wouldn't take those figures to be reliable projections of dps. However, for relative comparison swings per round and hit rate are irrelevant as they will be a constant factor across all cases.

The real question is how well the equation ways DMG vs damage bonus.

Against dark blue xp mobs in the high 40s on my ranger where I looked into how well the formulas work. Despite my scepticism I found the value of 2xDMG + DB was actually surprisingly accurate for determining the relative value of weapons in the primary hand (I compared a wurmslayer to a lupine dagger).

Unless someone runs parses to determine what factor to use against DMG, we'll just have to take Raev's word for what it is worth on what that might be.

[Muggens]

Every melee gets a little something during that patch. Bards get on the warrior damage table & can use epic in off-hand without a penalty, rangers get a buff to their atk stat, monks get tripple attack, warriors can switch hands on epics, knights get the 2handed buffs, and some high end rogue daggers get upgraded. It's a pretty nice patch overall for melee.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-2001-2.html

* Summary of Melee Changes *

- Two-Handed Weapons have been given an increased damage bonus for
characters over level 50. Also, certain post-epic quality two-handers
have been improved.

- Warriors have had their taunt skill cap increased to 230 at 60th
level. Also, the Blades of Strategy and Tactics can now be used in
either hand.

- Rogues, as the primary user of piercing weapons, will benefit from an
improvement in the quality of a few existing high-end daggers. At some
future date new piercing weapons will be added to the game to fill gaps
in equipment availability.

- Monks will now be on an improved combat table at levels 55 and again
to a better table at 60. Monks now have the ability to Triple Attack at
60th level. The minimum damage done by Flying Kick will be greatly
increased for monks starting at 51st level and scaling up to level 60.
We also intend to add more monk weapons in the future to fill equipment
gaps.

- Rangers have their Double Attack skill cap raised to 245. They have
also gained an innate offensive bonus that starts at level 55 and
increases until level 60. Ranger's Defense skill cap has been raised to
220, and their Riposte skill cap has been raised to 185.

- Paladins and Shadowknights, besides the benefits they gain from the
two-handed weapons change mentioned above, have also been moved to the
same combat tables as warriors. In the future we intend to examine the
existing one-handed weapons useable by knights for possible upgrades.
We are also increasing the Taunt skill cap for these two classes to
220.

- Bards have had their 1h blunt and 1h slash skill caps increased to
250. Their piercing skill cap has been increased to 240. Their Offense
skill cap has been raised to 252. Bards are also being moved to the
same combat table with all the other melee and hybrid classes (save
monks who have separate tables after level 55). Bards Parry skill cap
has been raised to 185 as well. Finally, the Singing Shortsword can now
be equipped in the off hand and still give full song enhancing
benefits.


On a side note, what piercing weapons are getting upgraded, anyone know?