Shocking leaked image shows spirit of compromise on p99 in A/A's absence!

[bktroost]

Or work on cool avatars, right Aegnor? How else do we get so awesome looking?

[EdTuBrutus]

The difference comes ( as we all know ) is whether there is a handful of people within the guild willing to do all the crazy socking/fteing/tracking etc that the raid scene meta has turned into. Point being, the core of the vast majority of guilds here are very much casual by nature.

But that just emphasises the point even more.

It's not that P99's entertainment value is being destroyed for 2500 people by 250. It's that perhaps 25 people destroy the entertainment for 2700. I have a very strong feeling that most people even in A/A would prefer to be able to raid based on scheduled raids during a guild's peak time without needing to drop everything to raid at a moment's notice.

Scarcity in Everquest was always its biggest failing. It doesn't take "skill" it doesn't take "ability". It requires ridiculous investments of time by a tiny number of people who destroy the enjoyment of thousands of others AND GET THEIR ROCKS OFF that those thousands of others have their fun taken away.

EQ created scarcity because they thought it was a viable long term business model that would keep people playing. We know today, from HUNDREDS of games that scarcity does NOT keep people playing, scarcity drives people away, the majority of people, while playing into the anti-social, mentally deficient needs of a tiny, tiny minority.

EQ was relatively popular in its day because it was the only viable PvE MMORPG. It had literally no competition. To a lot of people, they want to recapture that look and feel. I doubt they want to recapture the frustration and idiocy of bad design decisions. The instant a better PvE game appeared, it had 20 times the subscribers of EQ at its peak, within 12 months.

[EdTuBrutus]

IF they removed variance, did bunch of earthquakes, etc.. all that would change is A/A would gear alts faster.

There are only so many alts you want to gear. Even for A/A.

If they can completely gear their toons within a given period of time, multiple toons, then they quit. And having a few dozen people in that position quit, freeing up content for hundreds of others is a huge positive for the game, its player base and its long term future.

[Fasttimes]

There are only so many alts you want to gear. Even for A/A.

If they can completely gear their toons within a given period of time, multiple toons, then they quit. And having a few dozen people in that position quit, freeing up content for hundreds of others is a huge positive for the game, its player base and its long term future.

dont think you understand them that well, they wont quit, they cant stop wont stop, p diddy style.

[Vallanor]

Or work on cool avatars, right Aegnor? How else do we get so awesome looking?

Haha another excellent timesink, I agree. What's the point of foruming if you don't have a kick-ass sig?

[EdTuBrutus]

I know everyone wants to pretend like this weeks spawns were super smooth and everyone was happy but that was not the case. Some guilds felt shafted by CSG/Rustle as they took the majority of the high tier mobs. This worked for 1 week but would 100% fall apart if you tried to do the same thing a few times, Hell one guild was about to just kill what they wanted because they felt they did not "get enough".

Awakened member tries to sow discord.

Tough, no-one's falling for it.

[EdTuBrutus]

I have watched atleast 5 streamers on different guilds these past two days... and i can tell you that you guys stare at ToV entrance walls and LTK exit more then any of the called "hardcore guilds".

3 hours, not a single dragon pulled/killed and having a zerg force staring at walls. A+ right there.

Atleast a FTE team is like 3-6 people at most.

Different playstyles for sure. Hope you guys had fun.

Not one guild or alliance spent 3 hours without a kill this weekend.

Are you trying to persuade others or justify your own neckbearding?

[getsome]

All alone in Temple of Veeshan.

http://i.imgur.com/0tNmuib.jpg

Well not really.


http://i.imgur.com/9956KdY.jpg

[Dreenk317]

Here's my solution. A/A stop raiding for one week every month and let the rest of the server kill some things. It's simple and reasonable. LMK.

Honestly, this right here would do so much for so many peoples enjoyment of the game. Server pop would rise and be more steady around the clock id bet.
I can think of 10-12 friends that would come back right away if they were told they could actually get some targets at least once a month, without poopsocking for hours on end.

[Bubbles]

Here's my solution. A/A stop raiding for one week every month and let the rest of the server kill some things. It's simple and reasonable. LMK.

I'm actualy super excited to hear the lame excuses incoming to respond to this one.


But that just emphasises the point even more.

It's not that P99's entertainment value is being destroyed for 2500 people by 250. It's that perhaps 25 people destroy the entertainment for 2700. I have a very strong feeling that most people even in A/A would prefer to be able to raid based on scheduled raids during a guild's peak time without needing to drop everything to raid at a moment's notice.

Scarcity in Everquest was always its biggest failing. It doesn't take "skill" it doesn't take "ability". It requires ridiculous investments of time by a tiny number of people who destroy the enjoyment of thousands of others AND GET THEIR ROCKS OFF that those thousands of others have their fun taken away.

EQ created scarcity because they thought it was a viable long term business model that would keep people playing. We know today, from HUNDREDS of games that scarcity does NOT keep people playing, scarcity drives people away, the majority of people, while playing into the anti-social, mentally deficient needs of a tiny, tiny minority.

EQ was relatively popular in its day because it was the only viable PvE MMORPG. It had literally no competition. To a lot of people, they want to recapture that look and feel. I doubt they want to recapture the frustration and idiocy of bad design decisions. The instant a better PvE game appeared, it had 20 times the subscribers of EQ at its peak, within 12 months.

Well said. Scarcity brings out the worst in people. And it's no coincidence EQ created the need for instancing and nothing that came since on a mass scale adopted the scarcity model.

[Andos]

The difference comes ( as we all know ) is whether there is a handful of people within the guild willing to do all the crazy socking/fteing/tracking etc that the raid scene meta has turned into.

If A/A were to poof suddenly, there would just simply be a new alpha dog on the top of the food chain.



You've opined frequently that everyone has their chance to go race for FTE on mobs but they choose not to devote the time to it. You can't at the same time say if the two groups and their players were to suddenly poof that all of a sudden a new group would come in and be willing to waste their time wall staring constantly.

You already established in your first point that A/A were the only people willing to do the crazy socking/fteing/tracking and in other replies indicate it is the other guilds that are capable of downing targets (but unwilling to neckbeard it up) own fault for not competing in the absurdity of FTE racing. What changes that if they disappear? Do Rustle/CSG/FoH et al all of a sudden decide they want to waste hours at a time staring bored out of their minds at a wall waiting for a tracker to say (insert mob here) go go go? If that were the case you would have seen it happen this weekend...

[Brut]

What changes that if they disappear? Do Rustle/CSG/FoH et al all of a sudden decide they want to waste hours at a time staring bored out of their minds at a wall waiting for a tracker to say (insert mob here) go go go? If that were the case you would have seen it happen this weekend...
Eventually, yes.

As the R rotation system already proved in the past, eventually the Rustles CSGs and FoHs would start bickering on how these and those are less deserving than us, these and those are gaming the system, and thus the biggest guilds strongarm their way to loots, forcing the smaller ones out. Supply vs demand is they key here, and root of all issues.

The raidscene is the way it is since the serer is a simulation of classic Everquest. You can't have daffodils and rainbows and rotations in a server where well over 500 actively playing people have a lvl60 char or two, unless you either add more dragon spawns or instanced content.

[Swish]

Eventually, yes.

As the R rotation system already proved in the past, eventually the Rustles CSGs and FoHs would start bickering on how these and those are less deserving than us, these and those are gaming the system, and thus the biggest guilds strongarm their way to loots, forcing the smaller ones out.

Based on history that is certainly true. What if some of the leveling guilds want to break into the raid scene like last time? How do you tell a new guild they can't have access? Also what's to stop some of the bigger guilds splitting in half to get more pixels per head, or CSG to turn into Omni, Europa and AG again taking 3 slots and helping each other? Other raid alliance guilds the same etc.

There's no solution that would work other than "more earthquakes", but even then.

[Breaken]

How convienent of you to forget the deal made with the suspende A/ A to not crawl, and kill ASAP, so not to spread out timers, while moaning about dungeon crawling..... good stuff this, watching A/ A members use every excuse in the book to justify their pathetic chase for pixels.

I keep seeing this... What agreement? I never requested anything. Who from Awakened agreed you need to kill these mobs in this manner?

Sure, it would have been great if you did, but you didn't, and as far as I know, we didn't request you to.

[Culkasi]

I keep seeing this... What agreement? I never requested anything. Who from Awakened agreed you need to kill these mobs in this manner?

Sure, it would have been great if you did, but you didn't, and as far as I know, we didn't request you to.

I am not sure this was requested either, though I wasn't close to negotiations - its in everyones best interest, but that was not our main driver. It was about what was possible when 10 different guilds were killing ToV mobs in very different timezones, and a crawl just wasn't.

yes, we would love to crawl ToV, that is how we remember classic EQ raiding, and we would all love to do that again, but its impossible to do that when trying to make sure 10 guilds have fun on the same respawn cycle - we prioritized that higher than our own dreams

[Nommis]

Next cycle we should do a server wide crawl to Sevalak since he's always left up uncontested.

[Ravager]

There are only so many alts you want to gear. Even for A/A.

If they can completely gear their toons within a given period of time, multiple toons, then they quit. And having a few dozen people in that position quit, freeing up content for hundreds of others is a huge positive for the game, its player base and its long term future.
You'd think so, but history shows otherwise.

Compulsive gamblers don't quit when they've won enough money.

[Pubo]

Here's my solution. A/A stop raiding for one week every month and let the rest of the server kill some things. It's simple and reasonable. LMK.

+1

[Jimjam]

Next cycle we should do a server wide crawl to Sevalak since he's always left up uncontested.

Imagine 500 people in ToV. The desyncs!

[Ravager]

Imagine 500 people in ToV. The desyncs!
If casuals really wanted to affect change, they could simply log in and hold the zone hostage during windows. There's certainly enough of them. A month of no ToV mobs would put some of these neckbeards into epileptic fits.

[Vallanor]

People keep saying the failure of the R System is proof that it will never work, but conveniently forget to mention that the people who blew it up either left the server (BDA) or are in Awakened (Taken).

Nobody knows what would happen this time. There are 3x the mobs now and different people involved. There's no guarantee of failure or success. This past weekend had people sign up as an alliance for all mobs. If they were held to that in the new system, wouldn't that alleviate a lot of the problem the bigger guilds saw with Class R the first time around and make it more likely to succeed?

[Jimjam]

If casuals really wanted to affect change, they could simply log in and hold the zone hostage during windows. There's certainly enough of them. A month of no ToV mobs would put some of these neckbeards into epileptic fits.

The numbers out for ToV this weekend were crazy. No defensive warrior tanking required when 6 minutes worth of deft dancing bards available, right?!

[Brut]

Blaming BDA or Taken for the rotation falling apart is pretty naive. It's just human nature. That's why the raidscene inevitably degenerates into a contest of whomever is willing to sock the hardest. People want to maximize the amount of pixels they get, have the best chance to get it, feel like they're the most deserving of it, ergo they go just a wee step further to have the best chance of getting them. Other guilds follow suit. Until it comes to a point where everyone's socking spawns points autofires blazing. Happened tons of times before, would happen again.

There's already, what, 10 entities that would be ToV capable in the casual guild list? CSGs and other alliances wouldn't want to keep 150+ manning scarce rotated mobs for long and would split up to smaller guilds. Ergo even more mouths to feed. The waiting list for rotated mobs would stretch to half a year or so. By summer it'd be the evul BDA/Taken of today that'd break the rotation apart again, since they'd get tired of all the small splinter guilds that appear flocking in stretching the list even further.

It just boils down to classic vs not classic. There's just too many people on this server who are ready and willing to raid for it to work out with 7day respawn mobs. Unclassic solutions are the only way to fix a problem that we didn't have in 2001. That's why the raidscene caters to biggest neckbeards too, since it's the simpliest solution, easiest to monitor, and classic. If the staff wants to change it up, great, but I just roll my eyes reading these "A/A horrible poopsocking bad guys pls add rotations and server is saved"-talks, since we should all know better.

[bktroost]

People keep saying the failure of the R System is proof that it will never work, but conveniently forget to mention that the people who blew it up either left the server (BDA) or are in Awakened (Taken).

Nobody knows what would happen this time. There are 3x the mobs now and different people involved. There's no guarantee of failure or success. This past weekend had people sign up as an alliance for all mobs. If they were held to that in the new system, wouldn't that alleviate a lot of the problem the bigger guilds saw with Class R the first time around and make it more likely to succeed?

A human hurt me once, therefore, all humans will hurt me. I no longer trust humans. #FalseSyllogisms

[Ravager]

People keep saying the failure of the R System is proof that it will never work, but conveniently forget to mention that the people who blew it up either left the server (BDA) or are in Awakened (Taken).

Nobody knows what would happen this time. There are 3x the mobs now and different people involved. There's no guarantee of failure or success. This past weekend had people sign up as an alliance for all mobs. If they were held to that in the new system, wouldn't that alleviate a lot of the problem the bigger guilds saw with Class R the first time around and make it more likely to succeed?
There's 3x the mobs now, but there's also 3x the players. This happened once years ago when TMO monopolized all of the raid content. They took a two week vacation for shenanigans and the server did the same thing as is going on now, sharing the mobs for 2 weeks (an effort spearheaded by the same BDA no-less). This 10 days is predictive of nothing, but the last 6 years of this server's history is predictive, since history is clearly repeating itself.

BDA left because nothing was changing about how this server is run. Continuing to run it the same way will always yield the same results. You're not going to change human nature, people will always get away with whatever they are allowed to get away with.

[Vallanor]

I'm just spitballing here, but you could even break the rotation into different categories and you can only sign up for one. This could get the up and coming guilds on a faster rotation for easier stuff (something like WToV, KD, Velketor, etc.) the mid-progression guilds into a faster rotation for medium stuff (Yelinak, Dain, Draco, some of NToV?) and the biggest guilds into the larger tier (AoW, harder ToV, stuff like that). You only sign up for one rotation at a time, which keeps people moving through pretty quickly.

I don't know, just a thought. The point is there are so many more mobs now with Velious that things like this are possible and guilds can participate in the tier that makes the most sense based on their current progression.

Edit for above responses: I think the one key that is missing that would prevent history repeating (which I still contend is hardly a certainty) is GM enforcement of whatever is set up. If Azure Guard becomes the new Taken and wants to blow everything up and stomp down the little guys, we'd just be removed from the rotation and put into Class C or whatever it's called this time around. Having experienced a year and a half of that already, I think we'd suck it up and continue with the rotation.

[Ravager]

Without GM intervention on the rotation, it won't work, since there's no incentive to keep the rotation for people willing to suffer hemorrhoids to attain pixels. Back before the R rotation broke up, Sirken pushed for guilds coming to an agreement on the rotation, even acknowledging it himself that it was good for the server, but for whatever reason he did not want to enforce it. So that's that.

[Vallanor]

Without GM intervention on the rotation, it won't work, since there's no incentive to keep the rotation for people willing to suffer hemorrhoids to attain pixels. Back before the R rotation broke up, Sirken pushed for guilds coming to an agreement on the rotation, even acknowledging it himself that it was good for the server, but for whatever reason he did not want to enforce it. So that's that.

Edited my previous post to mention GM enforcement. I agree it's really important.

[Breaken]

If Azure Guard becomes the new Taken and wants to blow everything up and stomp down the little guys, we'd just be removed from the rotation and put into Class C or whatever it's called this time around.

Pretty sure it was BDA who blew it up. All Taken did was request guilds to sign up together if they raided together, as you have done now with CSG. I find it funny because when we discussed the Ring War rotation, I made it very clear this is still important for any rotation, and CSG agreed, as they don't sign up for 3 slots.

[Vallanor]

Pretty sure it was BDA who blew it up. All Taken did was request guilds to sign up together if they raided together, as you have done now with CSG. I find it funny because when we discussed the Ring War rotation, I made it very clear this is still important for any rotation, and CSG agreed, as they don't sign up for 3 slots.

I think that's pretty reasonable honestly. Some of the "kill Gorenaire within one hour no matter when it pops" stuff was a bit much, but signing up as one entity if you end up raiding together anyway makes a lot of sense. I wasn't involved in any of the discussions so I don't know who demanded what, but I'd believe that it was BDA that ruined everything. As I've learned from historically accurate Swish-posting, BDA is just the worst.

[Kagey]

Can confirm it was bda. And it was marvelous.

[colicab]

Solution: Enforce Rotation on Class R. If you break rotation hello Class C. Welcome to the big leagues with A/A. Look another problem solved.

[Erati]

You already established in your first point that A/A were the only people willing to do the crazy socking/fteing/tracking and in other replies indicate it is the other guilds that are capable of downing targets (but unwilling to neckbeard it up) own fault for not competing in the absurdity of FTE racing. What changes that if they disappear? Do Rustle/CSG/FoH et al all of a sudden decide they want to waste hours at a time staring bored out of their minds at a wall waiting for a tracker to say (insert mob here) go go go? If that were the case you would have seen it happen this weekend...

Did I say the new top alpha dogs would emulate A/A and our wall staring races?

If they want to follow server rules, some would yes but otherwise like Brut said there will always be breaking points for the top guilds in terms of who they will allow to acquire their pixels.

I dont understand why A/A is demonized for following the raid rule protocol lol. Yes we race for mobs which involves looking at the spawn point but I mean its the current ruleset so...what am I missing haha

We used to play by even more unforgiving and hardcore rules that involved even more coordinated tracking so its hard to really understand the issue with the current ruleset outside of the sheer man hours per mob to which I always point to moderation and knowing your guilds wheel house.

[Ravager]

Did I say the new top alpha dogs would emulate A/A and our wall staring races?

If they want to follow server rules, some would yes but otherwise like Brut said there will always be breaking points for the top guilds in terms of who they will allow to acquire their pixels.

I dont understand why A/A is demonized for following the raid rule protocol lol. Yes we race for mobs which involves looking at the spawn point but I mean its the current ruleset so...what am I missing haha

We used to play by even more unforgiving and hardcore rules that involved even more coordinated tracking so its hard to really understand the issue with the current ruleset outside of the sheer man hours per mob to which I always point to moderation and knowing your guilds wheel house.
If tracking and parking were the only barriers to entry, you'd see every guild trying it out here and there. But that's not the only obstacle of it.

Exhibits A and B:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261900

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261782

[Swish]

Can confirm it was bda. And it was marvelous.

Then they got salty there wasn't one for Velious, declared the raid scene untenable because they had 70-80 raiders that weren't getting guaranteed drops anymore.

A bunch who followed them to Phinny don't raid with them anymore, you can see why. I think if the rotation hadn't blown up there'd be more of an appetite for one here. Maybe it can be done.

[Rygar]

I'm curious if some form of rotation came back if devs would remove variance. Also curious if A/A would support at least some rotations if variance was removed on those mobs.

Wasn't around when it happened, but was variance a result of the FTE racing?

I'm not sure if variance creates less spawns or more spawns on average.

[Ravager]

I'm curious if some form of rotation came back if devs would remove variance. Also curious if A/A would support at least some rotations if variance was removed on those mobs.

Wasn't around when it happened, but was variance a result of the FTE racing?
FTE has been a thing since they removed the first in force rule. The FTE shouts were just put in to curb constant petitions about who had FTE (clearly to resounding success!) since before it was a tactic of one particular guild to tag a raid mob (without a force to kill it) that another guild was pulling and then petitioning the loot.

[arsenalpow]

Pretty sure it was BDA who blew it up. All Taken did was request guilds to sign up together if they raided together, as you have done now with CSG. I find it funny because when we discussed the Ring War rotation, I made it very clear this is still important for any rotation, and CSG agreed, as they don't sign up for 3 slots.

All class R members had a part in the rotations fall. We just happen to get the blame because we were the last push. Whatever, consider Phinny.

[Erati]

If tracking and parking were the only barriers to entry, you'd see every guild trying it out here and there. But that's not the only obstacle of it.

Exhibits A and B:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261900

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261782

You do realize there are many raid mobs in Velious and A/A can only be locked into 1 at a time right?

Regardless of any crazy loophole rule worry that may exist, once A/A are locked, it becomes advantage server for anyone who wants to contest the next spawn.

Also Awakened's suspension has nothing to do with competition, it was a locked Vulak spawn that the violation occurred on. Barrier of entry is just an excuse, the current meta is extremely casual friendly outside of the sheer hours of variance which is not the fault of A/A.

[Swish]

All class R members had a part in the rotations fall. We just happen to get the blame because we were the last push. Whatever, consider Phinny.

Yeah damn Moonlight Crusaders and Supremacy, how dare true casual guilds shit up the rotation by asking to be on the list. Better adjust it and have Gorenaire as the gatekeeper to getting on the list lol.

You axed it for a play for more pixels. It worked short term, collapsing a couple of genuinely casual guilds so you and your casually hardcore pals (Taken) could take 2 out of 3 class R dragons. That's why CSG formed, because the meta was zerging content.

How could Supremacy, MC, Divinity, or any of the other smaller guilds (read: the TRUE casual guilds) really compete at the time?

Answer: they couldn't (and you knew it)

[Ravager]

You do realize there are many raid mobs in Velious and A/A can only be locked into 1 at a time right?

Regardless of any crazy loophole rule worry that may exist, once A/A are locked, it becomes advantage server for anyone who wants to contest the next spawn.

Also Awakened's suspension has nothing to do with competition, it was a locked Vulak spawn that the violation occurred on. Barrier of entry is just an excuse, the current meta is extremely casual friendly outside of the sheer hours of variance which is not the fault of A/A.
I was referencing the fact that it's not about how good you are at the game but how good you are at gaming the system. There's a reason "fraps or it didn't happen" and "lawyerquest" are idioms here. A new guild coming into the raid scene not only has to put in the hours of tracking and parking, but they also have to contend with all of the cheating and training that doesn't get caught on fraps. They need to have dedicated fraps runners for the entirety of a window and be ready to submit a petition when their mob gets taken from them due to shenanigans. There's probably 20 man hours a week put into making your case that you deserved the mob. Nobody wants to put 16 hours into tracking a mob and then lose it simply because they didn't have a good angle on their fraps video.

If everyone always played by the rules in good faith, there'd be no problems. If 5 guilds could race and then 4 of them said, "Congrats" to the winner, walked away and tried again next week, you'd see more "competition". But RnF/Raid Discussion/Personal Experience says that doesn't happen.

[Erati]

Yeah damn Moonlight Crusaders and Supremacy, how dare true casual guilds shit up the rotation by asking to be on the list. Better adjust it and have Gorenaire as the gatekeeper to getting on the list lol.

You axed it for a play for more pixels. It worked short term, collapsing a couple of genuinely casual guilds so you and your casually hardcore pals (Taken) could take 2 out of 3 class R dragons. That's why CSG formed, because the meta was zerging content.

How could Supremacy, MC, Divinity, or any of the other smaller guilds (read: the TRUE casual guilds) really compete at the time?

Answer: they couldn't (and you knew it)

The rotation was created solely by the players ( like Chest ) and the ruleset the server laid out was always a rotating lockout system designed to choke guilds that wanted to kill everything all the time in Class R.

If Taken/BDA never played ball to start, you wouldnt have had a rotation outside of that '3rd' spawn of each Class R mob which would have worked because that would have been an improvement to 0 raid content for the very casual guilds.

It is because of the patience of Taken/BDA that the system was spearheaded into something that had ground to stand on and it lasted for basically a full year til Velious was announced and loftier goals were created.

The end.

[Erati]

I was referencing the fact that it's not about how good you are at the game but how good you are at gaming the system. There's a reason "fraps or it didn't happen" and "lawyerquest" are idioms here. A new guild coming into the raid scene not only has to put in the hours of tracking and parking, but they also have to contend with all of the cheating and training that doesn't get caught on fraps. They need to have dedicated fraps runners for the entirety of a window and be ready to submit a petition when their mob gets taken from them due to shenanigans. There's probably 20 man hours a week put into making your case that you deserved the mob.

If everyone always played by the rules in good faith, there'd be no problems. If 5 guilds could race and then 4 of them said, "Congrats" to the winner, walk away and try again next week, you'd see more "competition". But RnF/Raid Discussion/Personal Experience says that doesn't happen.

Reading this post tells me you read into the forum propaganda way to much for your 'details' of what happens during some raid encounters.

No up and coming guilds would not have to go through the same level of lawyering that A/A employ - not in the slightest. Yes those guilds would have to follow the rules though (lol?) but I have yet to see any cases where an 'A' had an issue with a smaller guild's raid target that couldnt be solved with simple in game tells to leadership. The petition quest happens because A/A want to make the other suffer for some reason, and we are cut throat when we feel we have a violation against the other entity.

We ( cant speak for Aftermath tho but I assume this sentiment is true) rarely care and most the time are happy when other guilds are killing shit/contesting. It would be foolish to scare people away because thats what keeps things fresh and fun.

I will say its much easier to live in fear and keep your guns clutched to your chest then step out and try some of this stuff.

[Swish]

The rotation was created solely by the players ( like Chest ) and the ruleset the server laid out was always a rotating lockout system designed to choke guilds that wanted to kill everything all the time in Class R.

If Taken/BDA never played ball to start, you wouldnt have had a rotation outside of that '3rd' spawn of each Class R mob which would have worked because that would have been an improvement to 0 raid content for the very casual guilds.

It is because of the patience of Taken/BDA that the system was spearheaded into something that had ground to stand on and it lasted for basically a full year til Velious was announced and loftier goals were created.

The end.

Neither guild belonged in a "casual" rotation with that many players per encounter (I remember over 200 players in Sebilis for a Trakanon R-FFA, comprised of BDA/Taken/CSG). You think smaller guilds were even going to try? Hell, even CSG slowed down its appearances at those.

Couldn't step up to Class C because you couldn't compete but at the same time wanted to zerg/dominate Class R.

Should have had the balls and contested where you belonged.

Omni, Europa, AG, Supremacy, Moonlight Crusaders, A-Team (if not for doing "more with less" members they could have probably stepped up), Anonymous, and whoever else I missed were the casual guilds of the time. What was needed that obviously wouldn't have suited the rule makers was some kind of progression rule.

[Nommis]

Can we get a rotation going on Stormfeather? I really want an eyepatch but all these casual neckbeards won't let me have one. Think about it.

[Brut]

A new guild coming into the raid scene not only has to put in the hours of tracking and parking, but they also have to contend with all of the cheating and training that doesn't get caught on fraps. They need to have dedicated fraps runners for the entirety of a window and be ready to submit a petition when their mob gets taken from them due to shenanigans.
Hearsay, all of it.
This is by far the most honest the raidscene has ever been. Long since are gone the days of TMOs SKs and monks blatantly training their competition on fraps, then the petition threads going unanswered and the same crap going on week in week out. A/A are both terrified of any fraps showing any random lost app dropping a single trash bone skeleton on their competition at DN, since it can lead to 10 days off.

Most of the "omg we got trained"-stories these days people come up with are just messed up kites/trainups, people buffing/healing their pullers, etc goofy nonsense that chalk up to inexperience. Far cry from days of Zeetool bursting out of firewall with every mob in there and flopping them right ontop of CT the moment the competition dared to engage it.

[Ravager]

Reading this post tells me you read into the forum propaganda way to much for your 'details' of what happens during some raid encounters.

No up and coming guilds would not have to go through the same level of lawyering that A/A employ - not in the slightest. Yes those guilds would have to follow the rules though (lol?) but I have yet to see any cases where an 'A' had an issue with a smaller guild's raid target that couldnt be solved with simple in game tells to leadership. The petition quest happens because A/A want to make the other suffer for some reason, and we are cut throat when we feel we have a violation against the other entity.

We ( cant speak for Aftermath tho but I assume this sentiment is true) rarely care and most the time are happy when other guilds are killing shit/contesting. It would be foolish to scare people away because thats what keeps things fresh and fun.

I will say its much easier to live in fear and keep your guns clutched to your chest then step out and try some of this stuff.
This cons dubious. I expect it might be true maybe the first time or two someone else contested, but it would devolve quickly.

[Erati]

Couldn't step up to Class C because you couldn't compete but at the same time wanted to zerg/dominate Class R.
.

This is correct - Class C competition was even more fiercer and scarier than competing with A/A today.

The barrier of entry to VP key your raid force for Class C made it impossible for any guild to enter. Looking back, since Taken/BDA are a common 'root' of rotational problems - having Trakanon ever rotate to Class C was the issue.

If guilds were suppose to progress up to Class C and VP was the big prize, Class C should have never had a 'free' Trakanon and the dragon should have just rotated FFA/R. This would have allowed Taken/BDA type guilds to properly key up a raid force to move to the next tier. In fact, we probably should have not rotated Trakanon at all in Class R and set him aside for aspiring Class C guilds...

Oh well.

[Erati]

This cons dubious. I expect it might be true maybe the first time or two someone else contested, but it would devolve quickly.

again - you are living in fear which I can understand but I am merely explaining what happens in practice coming from a raid leader of one of the As.

We dont care if other guilds contest and take our shit - but you better do it in a way that coincides with the server rules.

If a violation is repeated over and over again, sure a petition might occur but I would wager it would rarely come to that as A/A are not swashbuckling cannibal savages, we would be the first to congratulate any guild on a well won race/kill. Most raid violations are usually misunderstandings where people find themselves at the wrong place and the wrong time, its rarely anything devious or malicious.

People do need to be held accountable for their actions though and thats why fraps are so popular for violations because photos dont lie regardless of the good natured intent.

[Swish]

This is correct - Class C competition was even more fiercer and scarier than competing with A/A today.

The backlash of that was having to have a zerg preparked/ready to go if you wanted Class R pixels, should it have been that way? Definitely not.

RIP Moonlight Crusaders
RIP Supremacy

More Hate/Fear/Sky raids for the rest :(

[Swish]

...and from that I can see why people don't like rotations.

[Kagey]

still have yet to get a eyepatch cause of a 2 day "casual" guild camping it harder then we do tov dragons. Hypocrites.

Stop acting like casuals cant compete. They can but I feel this is all due to them thinking they cant 'win' (which is totally false with lockout timers alone)

Every guild that raided this past weekend also were not casual play styles.

[Kodim]

Can we have an ST rotation already? Zone is awful.

[Kagey]

People r wasting so much time and effort on a Ravager that doesnt even play on this server and really knows nothing of new world rotations, lives in the past, stays on phinny.

[Erati]

The backlash of that was having to have a zerg preparked/ready to go if you wanted Class R pixels, should it have been that way? Definitely not.

RIP Moonlight Crusaders
RIP Supremacy

More Hate/Fear/Sky raids for the rest :(

You do realize that if Class R mobs went unkilled Class C would kill them making those valuable rotational mobs we fought hard to get set aside pointless?

I understand those small guilds need a fair and reasonable chance, but at the same time Class C guilds at the time wouldnt care who was up for any particular mob, if it was up past 6 hours, it was engaged immediately after. Even Maestro...

[Erati]

People r wasting so much time and effort on a Ravager that doesnt even play on this server and really knows nothing of new world rotations, lives in the past, stays on phinny.

wasting time??? its already Noon muahahahaha

[bktroost]

This is correct - Class C competition was even more fiercer and scarier than competing with A/A today.

The barrier of entry to VP key your raid force for Class C made it impossible for any guild to enter. Looking back, since Taken/BDA are a common 'root' of rotational problems - having Trakanon ever rotate to Class C was the issue.

If guilds were suppose to progress up to Class C and VP was the big prize, Class C should have never had a 'free' Trakanon and the dragon should have just rotated FFA/R. This would have allowed Taken/BDA type guilds to properly key up a raid force to move to the next tier. In fact, we probably should have not rotated Trakanon at all in Class R and set him aside for aspiring Class C guilds...

Oh well.

Era that was brilliant. Yes that would have been a big piece in the puzzle.

[Erati]

Era that was brilliant. Yes that would have been a big piece in the puzzle.

yea damn me for not thinking of this years ago :(

[Pan]

For all the noise in this thread, it really isn't our battle.

The owners of the server have created an ecosystem...and the outcomes of that ecosystem have been pretty consistent over time. I think, whether they know it or not, they have the culture (with the attendant distribution of resources) that they want.

Their server, their rules, their outcomes.

If we've learned anything from this one, anomalous weekend, it is that some on the server would prefer to play in a way that's not consistent with the long term, historical outcomes we've seen on p99.

That's not up to us, though. History here shows that because of the way that the rules are written and enforced, if the AAs were to poof tomorrow, those niches would be filled by others. That's how systems work (resource availability).

The problem, if it is a problem, is the way the ecosystem is constructed and governed. And at the end of it all, it's for the owners to decide whether the problem that some see is a problem at all. And history says (apart from the TMO-monopolization BOOM) there's no problem at all in their minds.

That said, I had a great time this weekend. If it were up to me, we'd see stuff like this more often. Not my server, tho - it's not up to me. The only choice, really, that I have is if I log in or not. Their world, their rules.

[Kagey]

You're in their world now.

[Ravager]

People r wasting so much time and effort on a Ravager that doesnt even play on this server and really knows nothing of new world rotations, lives in the past, stays on phinny.
I don't play on Phinny, but everything else is accurate.

[Necrostoner]

Era that was brilliant. Yes that would have been a big piece in the puzzle.

Mind = blown. How teh fuk didn't I think of that b4?

[RedXIII]

Can we get a rotation going on Stormfeather? I really want an eyepatch but all these casual neckbeards won't let me have one. Think about it.

+1.

Casuals that camp stuff for 2 days... rofl. give me a break. Same shit used to happen with ragefire, lots of "casual guilds" spam clicking air to get their piece turn in. (not sure if still happen cuz i never went back there).

Give me a break, stop the bullshit talk.

Grow a pair, and git gud. If you need help with it, shoot me a tell ingame and ill help you but dont play the victim of the system type of person because that doesnt fly in the real world.

[mefdinkins]

Their server, their rules, their outcomes.

I would say their server, their rules, our outcomes. People should play the game the way they want to. If they have certain objectives they should strive for those as well?

[mefdinkins]

I also need a Stormfeather but the casuals go to hardcore staring at this spawn point perma-camping this shit for days while I kill Dragons. boohoo lets rotate Stormfeather. :rolleyes:

This is true, players should recognize this is one of the most social games ever. If DAP went on strike how would that impact the server? If A/A were gone how much easier would it be to kill a Yelinak? If 'casual' players (who do not park out for mobs, track, or raid as much) didn't camp non-raid mobs how much easier would it be for A/A players to get the non-raid items they need/want?

If I went on Counter Strike to explore the maps I would recognize I might get shot, if I went on League of Legends to kill jungle camps I might get ganked. If I play EQ without tracking, parking, or competing on FTE line I might not get as many mobs? If I don't camp Stormfeather I might not get him?

[Dreenk317]

....We ( cant speak for Aftermath tho but I assume this sentiment is true) rarely care and most the time are happy when other guilds are killing shit/contesting. It would be foolish to scare people away because thats what keeps things fresh and fun.

I will say its much easier to live in fear and keep your guns clutched to your chest then step out and try some of this stuff.

Addressing the second part of this quote. Your totally right, it's easy to be scared and negative and stay in that mentality.

However, that being said. Fear should not be people's default mindset. And on P99, when it comes to raiding, it seems like it is for a lot of people. So many times I've tracked a mob, gotten a window, and all my friends and guildies respond with something along the lines of; "We will never get it, it's permacamped, A/A will just take it from us." etc. People are so convinced that it's pointless after seeing everything that goes down here with raid petitions and foot races, and lawyerquesting with fraps, that they don't even want to try for fear of losing through no fault of there own.

And if you really do want other people out there and contesting/racing in ToV, why not do more things like this weekend. (Not getting banned) but maybe picking four targets and A/A makes a commitment to only go for them and leave everything else up for one spawn cycle. Allowing the other guilds to have a weekend like this last one once a month or so.

This weekend was special because it removed that fear for a lot of players. Instead of the default mindset being "it's pointless, we won't get it." It became one of "Let's do this! Now is our chance!" And my guild had a lot of fun, and learned a lot. Fighting dragons was a pretty new experience for the majority of my guilds members. And boy did they learn some things about dragon fear and magic resists. And sure, it was a struggle, and we wiped several times. But in the end, our meager little, un disciplined crew, had 4 dragon notches on our belt. And that is awesome and was a lot of fun. So a big thank you to everyone that was a part of making this happen.

[Breaken]

And if you really do want other people out there and contesting/racing in ToV, why not do more things like this weekend. (Not getting banned) but maybe picking four targets and A/A makes a commitment to only go for them and leave everything else up for one spawn cycle. Allowing the other guilds to have a weekend like this last one once a month or so.

Why don't we pick four targets and A/A makes a commitment to not go for them? But we have done this, it just isn't enough mobs for your liking, or it is not the correct mobs. On a regular basis, mobs are left up in ToV. They just happen to be mobs like Sevalak, Ikatair, Gozzrem, or Telk.. Maybe Lendi and Jorlleag some weeks as well. Also, rarely will you see A/A go for Wuoshi or Velketor.

Instead of taking the mobs that are left up, you argue for the top tier mobs.

[Erati]

Dragons are left up constantly- the issue is, they are not the "right" ones.

Leaving things up happens each cycle of spawns, its called prioitizing

I dont think people realize how poweful locked encounters are when it comes to distributing

[Freakish]

Help help I'm being oppressed! Come see the violence inherent in the system!

[arsenalpow]

Why don't we pick four targets and A/A makes a commitment to not go for them? But we have done this, it just isn't enough mobs for your liking, or it is not the correct mobs. On a regular basis, mobs are left up in ToV. They just happen to be mobs like Sevalak, Ikatair, Gozzrem, or Telk.. Maybe Lendi and Jorlleag some weeks as well. Also, rarely will you see A/A go for Wuoshi or Velketor.

Instead of taking the mobs that are left up, you argue for the top tier mobs.

Dragons are left up constantly- the issue is, they are not the "right" ones.

Leaving things up happens each cycle of spawns, its called prioitizing

I dont think people realize how poweful locked encounters are when it comes to distributing

So if someone on p99 isn't in A/A when do they get to kill non-trash content? When they croot, contest, and git gud? Or when A/A eats simultaneous suspensions at the whim of a fickle and inconsistent GM?

[arsenalpow]

So if someone on p99 isn't in A/A when do they get to kill non-trash content? When they croot, contest, and git gud? Or when A/A eats simultaneous suspensions at the whim of a fickle and inconsistent GM?

Actually where's autistic Raev to do the math on this? What are the odds of someone getting a specific Vulak drop when they aren't in A/A factoring in the number of Vulaks they'll see (one or two out of how many Vulaks have spawned to date) the number of people that kill the dragon (100+) your guild getting the proper pick (first pick out of 3 guilds cooperating?) the item you want actually dropping, and if all those stars align getting awarded that drop

[maskedmelon]

So if someone on p99 isn't in A/A when do they get to kill non-trash content? When they croot, contest, and git gud? Or when A/A eats simultaneous suspensions at the whim of a fickle and inconsistent GM?

When they rip A/As hands outta the cookie jar and stuff their own hand in! （＾ν＾）

[mefdinkins]

Actually where's autistic Raev to do the math on this? What are the odds of someone getting a specific Vulak drop when they aren't in A/A factoring in the number of Vulaks they'll see (one or two out of how many Vulaks have spawned to date) the number of people that kill the dragon (100+) your guild getting the proper pick (first pick out of 3 guilds cooperating?) the item you want actually dropping, and if all those stars align getting awarded that drop

How many sky clears do I need to attend to get my Gharn's Rock of Smashing?

The answer is 0! Just join Awakened!

also chest where is christmas card link?!

[Breaken]

So if someone on p99 isn't in A/A when do they get to kill non-trash content? When they croot, contest, and git gud? Or when A/A eats simultaneous suspensions at the whim of a fickle and inconsistent GM?

When they race for non-trash content or when there is a full server spawn. Nothing is stopping them except their motivation to do so.

[arsenalpow]

When they race for non-trash content or when there is a full server spawn. Nothing is stopping them except their motivation to do so.

So CSG can totally kill Vulak on a repop and the only thing stopping them is "motivation"

Okie doke

[Breaken]

They can. They just have to run to him and lock him, just like A/A. Also, we *had* an agreement in place that gave a Vulak lock 4 hours instead of the server 1 hour. It also ensured that if a linked dragon wiped you, you could still attempt it again, uncontested. Unfortunately, that only lasted two weeks.

[Joyelle]

So CSG can totally kill Vulak on a repop and the only thing stopping them is "motivation"

Okie doke

Absolutely. All they need to do is get sow and run for it, it's not really that difficult.

[Necrostoner]

So CSG can totally kill Vulak on a repop and the only thing stopping them is "motivation"

Okie doke

You are literally saying that to someone that was in a Class R guild in the same type of postion you are probably in and is now Guild Leader of the top guild on server. Do you have any idea... nevermind..fuck it I give up.

[Breaken]

You are literally saying that to someone that was in a Class R guild in the same type of postion you are probably in and is now Guild Leader of the top guild on server. Do you have any idea... nevermind..fuck it I give up.

Chest and I were best friends. No one informed him though.

[Lammy]

With zero raid petitions to deal with... We sit and reflect on this weeks accomplishments.

http://i.imgur.com/K8qBQuf.png

[fiveeauxfour]

hotboxing the tov ent?

[Lammy]

Was going more for that 'as the dust settles'

[bktroost]

When they race for non-trash content or when there is a full server spawn. Nothing is stopping them except their motivation to do so.

I will not alt tab jump race. It's illegal. I've watched videos of my guys with a distinct first off the line advantage, jumping, strafing, catching all the air at the right corners and still somehow this mid air glitchy iksar monk comes soaring overhead while having slight epileptic airborn seizures to get FTEs.

For some reason we only see this on Eashen, Vulak and Dozekar. I don't see it too often on other mob races.

[Erati]

Was going more for that 'as the dust settles'

I also thought of hot box.

+1 Florid

[mefdinkins]

I will not alt tab jump

It's illegal.

Can anyone point me to this rule?

[bktroost]

Can anyone point me to this rule?

Anything that gives someone an advantage in a race is illegal. It's the same reason crown of riles were removed from racing. I just ask Braknar for confirmation and received this information.

[Rygar]

Can anyone point me to this rule?

I don't even know what alt tab jumping is... Based on what I read above, I am assuming when you jump your speed increases slightly, and when you alt tab at the right moment when jumping the client just keeps you moving at that speed? That is some BS if true.

Regardless, if you really think staff need to make rules for all this that is crazy talk, Sirken has even said there isn't going to be some set in stone bible of everything that is OK and everything that is not. If you think exploiting some weird alt+Tab glitch is OK that is crazy talk.

[icedwards]

Anything that gives someone an advantage in a race is illegal. It's the same reason crown of riles were removed from racing. I just ask Braknar for confirmation and received this information.

Crown of Rile requires a raid force to kill Phara Dar, Alt+Tab is something mastered at the age of 14 while surfing porn.

FWIW, I'm not a fan of alt+tab jumping either, but if it's actually illegal (as confirmed by Braknar) it should be posted in the raid discussion for everyone to see, not hidden behind Skype shadow councils.

[bigjerry]

I will not alt tab jump race. It's illegal. I've watched videos of my guys with a distinct first off the line advantage, jumping, strafing, catching all the air at the right corners and still somehow this mid air glitchy iksar monk comes soaring overhead while having slight epileptic airborn seizures to get FTEs.

For some reason we only see this on Eashen, Vulak and Dozekar. I don't see it too often on other mob races.

if i ever had a single moment of clarity after i found myself playing the game this way, i would stick my hand in a blender or try to hit my femoral with a chainsaw or whatever the nearest workable device was. i would know that if i wasted even 1 second the moment of crystal-clear sanity could pass and i might have to suffer through 50+ more years bouncing around in agony, smoking cigarettes between windows and developing conspiracy theories about FTE experiences. i would go into the kitchen, grab a knife and impale myself in the intestines IMMEDIATELY, before the demons could take over my motor functions again

[Erati]

Anything that gives someone an advantage in a race is illegal. It's the same reason crown of riles were removed from racing. I just ask Braknar for confirmation and received this information.

the Crown was unfair bc was an item not everyone had thusly making those who had one superior runners without even pressing a button.

The issue you have is something that cant really be policed and half the time is hearsay about what this even does as a benefit for these races.

[manguard]

TRIGGER WARNING: UNPOPULAR OPINIONS:

I'm in AG. I've been there(ToV,ST) to race a couple times, it is very fun to race and get an FTE for your guild. It's better that our FTE matters more now that we can have an hour to pull it in some zones. It's even fun on the non hour pulls, where we have to perfectly execute a pull or it gets snatched from us. This happened in ST a couple times, to our pull team. Did it suck losing? Yeah, but it is just a game, and it will making getting the next contested mob that we win more satisfying. We do contest, we just don't contest all the time. Also I've never had any issues working with Detoxx in tells.

On the flip side, on FTE's I've gotten, I've been IMMEDIATELY inundated with lawyerquest, from people I would never have expected. Even people I considered friends, people I helped at low level, and people who didn't even send me a tell, instead just broadcast in OOC as a sort of public pressure/shaming tactic. It really is off-putting to get burnt by playing by YOUR rules, then be nitpicked about it. It's not so much about civility, than it is about humility.

pls ppl, pls

[Erati]

On the flip side, on FTE's I've gotten, I've been IMMEDIATELY inundated with lawyerquest, from people I would never have expected. Even people I considered friends, people I helped at low level, and people who didn't even send me a tell, instead just broadcast in OOC as a sort of public pressure/shaming tactic. It really is off-putting to get burnt by playing by YOUR rules, then be nitpicked about it. It's not so much about civility, than it is about humility.

pls ppl, pls

#triggered.

Why is A/A shamed for playing by server rules again?

[bktroost]

the Crown was unfair bc was an item not everyone had thusly making those who had one superior runners without even pressing a button.

The issue you have is something that cant really be policed and half the time is hearsay about what this even does as a benefit for these races.

Eratani what is your skype, I'll send you a picture I just took of my Skype convo with sirken and braknar saying this is illegal. I cannot use imgur or I'd put it here.

[Erati]

Eratani what is your skype, I'll send you a picture I just took of my Skype convo with sirken and braknar saying this is illegal. I cannot use imgur or I'd put it here.

ill poke u - ty

[Kodim]

I'm curious, what exactly do you feel is stopping them?

Probably something to do with the fact that Vulak calls dragons to him, aka Vyemm is the goalie.

[Breaken]

CSG killed Vyemm twice this week.

[Kodim]

And while they're fighting Vyemm, you going to wait and let them tag Vulak after?

[RedXIII]

Skype talks... i heard there is a raid discussion forum where rules are posted... also... how can you tell if the person is alt+tab jumping? cuz one time i was in mid of aary jump and a pop up from skype show and my fps got reduced hard and the jump was a good leap ahead of people... should i be banned cuz i have a skype online notifications on during fte races?!

Oh btw, we should also not allow people with razor mouse that has macro buttons and keyboards with macro as well. Can we plz? Because those are also very easy to police... rofl.

Oh and no second monitor or screensharing... or vent/skype/ts/mumble cuz not classic.

Give me a break, too much QQ.

[Breaken]

And while they're fighting Vyemm, you going to wait and let them tag Vulak after?

No, would they wait and let us? There is no difference is my point. However, they could consider Vyemm a win, since he does drop some very good loot. Or is Vulak the only prize?

[Rygar]

Alt+tab jumping is not illegal, Can not be enforced if it was, and several of the top/best runners that get vulak do not alt+tab jump. (Kelzaraz, Mani, Ghoul) all who have several vulak FTE's have never alt+tab jumped in there life, Stop using it as a excuse to be bad at running.

You can do the same thing as Alt+tab jumping just by turning down your FPS in settings as seen in a recent AM statue fte video. How can a setting IN THE GAME be deemed illegal?

Can you explain how alt tab jumping works?

[bktroost]

Alt+tab jumping is not illegal, Can not be enforced


Incorrect on both accounts.

I've messaged eratani a pic for proof of legality or the lack thereof.

It is policeable. Multiple occurances on Fraps of a racer alt tab jumping will result in a guild ban. Be careful elf friends. A few people have been recording during races. Across a few guilds, I've seen a fair bit of footage with some repeat offenders. Skype pings happen but consistency equates to criminal intent.

I'm just saying, I've seen enough floating around that if someone put it all together in a petition someone could get blasted.

Best to just not cheat.

[Vallanor]

You go into settings and turn down your FPS as you are midair, simple in-game setting. or Alt+tab to another window(alt+tabbing to another window defaults your FPS to about 10)

Classic as hell.

[arsenalpow]

Don't forget about screenshare and lev toggling with rings.

[Erati]

I am not sure their plan for dealing with this - seems enough people have a Red Scare-esque fear about this tactic that as Happy says can be emulated using the Options menu already built into everyone's client...

[manguard]

Does framerate limiting at driver/WinEQ2 level produce the same effect? If so it doesn't even need to be an in-game option, and wouldn't be able to be removed without some DLL magic or something. I wouldn't feel good about using this, personally. Too gray-area for my tastes.

[Kodim]

It's not some impossibility for them to do so. If your guild isn't willing to put in the effort to tag dragons and mobilize within an hour to kill it, how is that someone else's fault.

I thought the question was what is preventing CSG from killing a repop Vulak? It's due to the stall situation that occurs; has nothing to do with motivation.

A/A races for Vulak on a repop and the loser kills Vyemm.

[bktroost]

Idk but if someone was willing to burn themselves in order to burn others with this rule it's possible. Yes the footage I've seen shows both guilds doing this. You couldn't really burn one without the other.

[Swish]

More rules, perfect.

[nyclin]

You see both guilds doing it and openly posting fraps because it does the same thing as a in-game setting that some people use on a daily basis.

Is everyone now forced to play at 100fps?
How will this be policed when everyone stops posting fraps on youtube?
Will they be taking the In-game setting to change fps out of the client?
Will it become illegal to play in Window mode?

Either way Awakened will follow the server rules, If the GM's state that it is illegal to change your FPS settings Awakened will follow.

really dunno why you're posting about this so much, but alt+tab jumping has a much bigger effect than simply limiting your fps

alt+tab jumping causes frame skips which makes you jump further, the effect is compounded if you do it while going downhill

can thank nalken for teaching the server his strategy via fraps though

[maskedmelon]

pras nalken for teaching the rest of us to cheat properly （＾∇＾）

[Fifield]

several of the top/best runners that get vulak do not alt+tab jump. (Kelzaraz, Mani, Ghoul) all who have several vulak FTE's have never alt+tab jumped in there life, Stop using it as a excuse to be bad at running.


Yeah there are good runners in both guilds gettin FTE's without alt tabbin. But then you got good runners who alt tab. and those are the real threats!

[Fifield]

I will say this though, Hjial's PC runs so fucking smooth. I watched some of his FTE videos and his EQ client looks so damn nice. Crazy frame rates.

I just bought a new PC and I havent loaded up P99 yet on it, I only hope its as smooth as his videos cause back when I raced, i couldnt even run fraps with it or i would just lag out.

[Ikon]

Alt+tab jumping is not illegal, Can not be enforced if it was, and several of the top/best runners that get vulak do not alt+tab jump. (Kelzaraz, Mani, Ghoul) all who have several vulak FTE's have never alt+tab jumped in there life, Stop using it as a excuse to be bad at running.

You can do the same thing as Alt+tab jumping just by turning down your FPS in settings as seen in a recent AM statue fte video. How can a setting IN THE GAME be deemed illegal?
For retarded people who may not know what an exploit is -

its where you deliberately use something in the game to cause an effect that was never intended. Like deliberately causing lag to scout, or fighting something in water to avoid aoe that should be hitting you, or hiding somewhere a mob can't hit you OR deciding during a race while jumping to switch video settings or alt tab... so you can get an advantage

Frigging people pretending to be morons are worse then actual morons

[Erati]

comparing a questionable jumping tactic to being able to hit a mob when they cant hit you - wow.

[nectarprime]

For retarded people who may not know what an exploit is -

its where you deliberately use something in the game to cause an effect that was never intended. Like deliberately causing lag to scout, or fighting something in water to avoid aoe that should be hitting you, or hiding somewhere a mob can't hit you OR deciding during a race while jumping to switch video settings or alt tab... so you can get an advantage

Frigging people pretending to be morons are worse then actual morons

Oh kind of like recharging items with a merchant?

[wrighter00]

It was an awesome past few days. Thanks to all the guilds in on the agreement. We got to nail some targets that are otherwise a shit show. This set the tone of a perfect setting for a PvE server. As far as I knew the competitors played PvP so I'm not sure who some of you top guys think you're kidding?

I have no major qualms with Awakened or Aftermath, but your "leading of the server" can be questionable at best. Poopsocking, FTE racing, and lawyerquesting is some of the most ridiculous MMO stuff I've seen. I urge you guys to work with us all more on spreading out this content. We're not all interested in talking about how great we are. We already know it, and quite frankly, FoH, Anonymous, and Venerate fucking crushed our targets that you guys think are only reserved for the "top notch" players. We don't even have the gear that you guys do from consistently farming the top Tier targets... sooo that should tell you something. It's asinine to talk about how to or who knows how to manage MMO strats. To quote the "17 year old elf simulator" quote, this ain't anyone's first rodeo.

For Karana's sake, open the throne rooms and vaults to diplomacy already. The real war is with the Dragons and Giants, and you're not the only ones who can do this anymore. Everyone else just did. Time to stop with the "how great are we though?" stuff.

[Ikon]

Oh kind of like recharging items with a merchant?
Nah. A lot different. Its breaking the game to get an advantage vs using a mechanic that may not have been intended but that the devs decided was okay and left in.

[maskedmelon]

Nah. A lot different. Its breaking the game to get an advantage vs using a mechanic that may not have been intended but that the devs decided was okay and left in.

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Ikon]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Re-experiencing adolescence? How is it?

[nectarprime]

Nah. A lot different. Its breaking the game to get an advantage vs using a mechanic that may not have been intended but that the devs decided was okay and left in.

lmao uh huh ok

[maskedmelon]

Re-experiencing adolescence? How is it?

lot better than your posts.

[Erati]

It was an awesome past few days. Thanks to all the guilds in on the agreement. We got to nail some targets that are otherwise a shit show. This set the tone of a perfect setting for a PvE server. As far as I knew the competitors played PvP so I'm not sure who some of you top guys think you're kidding?

I have no major qualms with Awakened or Aftermath, but your "leading of the server" can be questionable at best. Poopsocking, FTE racing, and lawyerquesting is some of the most ridiculous MMO stuff I've seen. I urge you guys to work with us all more on spreading out this content. We're not all interested in talking about how great we are. We already know it, and quite frankly, FoH, Anonymous, and Venerate fucking crushed our targets that you guys think are only reserved for the "top notch" players. We don't even have the gear that you guys do from consistently farming the top Tier targets... sooo that should tell you something. It's asinine to talk about how to or who knows how to manage MMO strats. To quote the "17 year old elf simulator" quote, this ain't anyone's first rodeo.

For Karana's sake, open the throne rooms and vaults to diplomacy already. The real war is with the Dragons and Giants, and you're not the only ones who can do this anymore. Everyone else just did. Time to stop with the "how great are we though?" stuff.


We get timers and track raid mobs guided by servers raiding ruleset and somewhere in there we are suppose to be stewards of the servers raid pixels?

wat

no one is excluding anyone and certainly no one said these mobs were unkillable by entities not named A/A.

TMO monopoly is long gone-lots of gear is out there now. Thats when it was hard to catch up...one guild had epics and no one else did...

[Ikon]

lot better than your posts.
That teenage angst...

[maskedmelon]

That teenage angst...

Flattery will get you nowhere.

[fiveeauxfour]

We get timers and track raid mobs guided by servers raiding ruleset and somewhere in there we are suppose to be stewards of the servers raid pixels?

wat

no one is excluding anyone and certainly no one said these mobs were unkillable by entities not named A/A.

eratani is right. awakened and aftermath were not the only two guilds in the formulation of the raid rules. awakened and aftermath are the only two guilds willing to raid.

[Fifield]

eratani is right.

ERATANI IS ALWAYS RIGHT DAMMIT!

[Sancta]

As Brutulis and Eratani pointed out, A/A gets blamed for attempting to follow the server rules to the fullest effect by FTE Racing as stated in said rules. Rules made by the P99 Staff.

There will always be a top guild or guilds that tries to use the server rules correctly for maximum benefit. The beauty of the rules ATM is that ANY guild can compete. Giving excuses and giving up without even sitting on the line is all that happens though. If anything this weekend proved that any guild can take out almost any dragon, all you need is FTE race for it during a normal week or even wait until A/A is locked out.

I guarantee with 100% certainty that there are players in CSG that are way more hardcore than the most hardcore FTE Racers who sit on the line the most. Some racers I know only log in for racing and play less total hours than a casual player during the week.

There are also players in A/A that only log in for raids on their mains, no alts, no racing, just batphones, and since both guilds have BUILT/TESTED/IMPROVED themselves to be efficient some mobs die with in 15 minutes of a batphone. Casual isn't even the proper word to describe them because they don't even play the game enough per week to be considered casual, and that's no problem because even A/A need all types of players.

- Tenderli

[RedXIII]

ERATANI IS ALWAYS RIGHT DAMMIT!

unless he is hungry... he make some terrible calls and go all emotional when hungry...

[Kagey]

Emotani!

[Fifield]

not a fan of the hungry eratani

[Swish]

Me either hehehe (this is a fun circlejerk)

[Maner]

It was an awesome past few days. Thanks to all the guilds in on the agreement. We got to nail some targets that are otherwise a shit show. This set the tone of a perfect setting for a PvE server. As far as I knew the competitors played PvP so I'm not sure who some of you top guys think you're kidding?

I have no major qualms with Awakened or Aftermath, but your "leading of the server" can be questionable at best. Poopsocking, FTE racing, and lawyerquesting is some of the most ridiculous MMO stuff I've seen. I urge you guys to work with us all more on spreading out this content. We're not all interested in talking about how great we are. We already know it, and quite frankly, FoH, Anonymous, and Venerate fucking crushed our targets that you guys think are only reserved for the "top notch" players. We don't even have the gear that you guys do from consistently farming the top Tier targets... sooo that should tell you something. It's asinine to talk about how to or who knows how to manage MMO strats. To quote the "17 year old elf simulator" quote, this ain't anyone's first rodeo.

For Karana's sake, open the throne rooms and vaults to diplomacy already. The real war is with the Dragons and Giants, and you're not the only ones who can do this anymore. Everyone else just did. Time to stop with the "how great are we though?" stuff.

Its kind of amazing how warped your view of reality is. Its almost as if you have never bothered to spend time trying to FTE so you are just talking out of your ass in regards to what happens during a normal raid week. There is also a huge difference in doing encounters such as CT when you are the only force in the zone compared to when you are racing other guilds to the same target. Gratz on your telk, and zlandi kills though, obviously the hardest mobs in the game.

There are established server rules, if you don't like them then there is always phinny. Just because you and your friends dont want to put forth the time to FTE race during entire windows, doesn't mean everyone feels the same way you do. And you're not special enough to demand that those who are willing to put forth more time don't just because you don't want to.

No one cares about whether or not you talk yourselves up, it was never in question that your 3 guild raid collective could kill targets in ToV. The problem is why do you deserve them without having to put forth the same amount of effort that others are willing to put forth? This isn't a better than you issue, its a we invest more time and effort than you, so why isn't it ok that we are rewarded more targets for it?

[Detoxx]

You guys clamor and rave about how you don't want us to push our playstyle on you, which I whole heartedly respect, but then you turn around and try to force your playstyle on us. I know, for a fact, that A LOT of people, myself included, play this game still for the competition involved in racing. You take that away, a lot of people quit.

No way is the right way but hypocrisy certainly isnt going to work. Yes, staring for 16 hours sucks but contrary to popular belief, 95% of A/A dont do it for 16 hours. They do it for a few hours at a clip and call it a day. Ironically, every guild and every member of every guild is afforded the same option.

[Cecily]

You guys clamor and rave about how you don't want us to push our playstyle on you, which I whole heartedly respect, but then you turn around and try to force your playstyle on us. I know, for a fact, that A LOT of people, myself included, play this game still for the competition involved in racing. You take that away, a lot of people quit.

No way is the right way but hypocrisy certainly isnt going to work. Yes, staring for 16 hours sucks but contrary to popular belief, 95% of A/A dont do it for 16 hours. They do it for a few hours at a clip and call it a day. Ironically, every guild and every member of every guild is afforded the same option.

How many people have quit due to "competitive" raiding completely blocking them from content?

[Froakula]

Had a blast, vote to reduce variance to 8 hours max to make the game more fun for all.

[EdTuBrutus]

You guys clamor and rave about how you don't want us to push our playstyle on you, which I whole heartedly respect, but then you turn around and try to force your playstyle on us. I know, for a fact, that A LOT of people, myself included, play this game still for the competition involved in racing. You take that away, a lot of people quit.

No way is the right way but hypocrisy certainly isnt going to work. Yes, staring for 16 hours sucks but contrary to popular belief, 95% of A/A dont do it for 16 hours. They do it for a few hours at a clip and call it a day. Ironically, every guild and every member of every guild is afforded the same option.

It's not hypocrisy its a simple judgement call. The current server rules favour poopsocking combined with high availability and actively prohibit scheduled raiding. And that's the core difference here. It's nothing to do with being able to race FTE or not, as many have said, anyone can participate in that.

But being able to get 40 people online within 1 hour is not viable for a lot of guild set ups. Heck it's not even desireable for most guilds even if it was viable.

So the judgement call is this. Keep the server rules as they are, favour poopsocking and pander to less than 200 people. Or change the rules, require rotation, and favour 2500 people.

[Maner]

How many people have quit due to "competitive" raiding completely blocking them from content?

who is completely blocked from raiding? the current incarnation of the rules makes it the same playing field for everyone willing to put forth the time investment. Maybe raiding on P99 just isn't for you if you aren't willing to make the effort or put forth the time. What about P99 says everyone who creates a character will be able to experience every aspect of the game at the pace they want?

[EdTuBrutus]

who is completely blocked from raiding? the current incarnation of the rules makes it the same playing field for everyone willing to put forth the time investment. Maybe raiding on P99 just isn't for you if you aren't willing to make the effort or put forth the time. What about P99 says everyone who creates a character will be able to experience every aspect of the game at the pace they want?

The rules completely block them from raiding because they would need 24 hours (possibly 48) to schedule enough people to be available even if they got the FTE. They don't, they get 1 hour.

[Danth]

Maybe raiding on P99 just isn't for you?

It's true, sitting around watching paint dry is indeed not for everyone. Most folks look at that and say, "Nope."

Danth

[lonmoer]

Love watching all these neck beards who are so proud of not having jobs and being able to play this game all day. And to the losers who play this game at work? fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck you.

[Cecily]

who is completely blocked from raiding? the current incarnation of the rules makes it the same playing field for everyone willing to put forth the time investment. Maybe raiding on P99 just isn't for you if you aren't willing to make the effort or put forth the time. What about P99 says everyone who creates a character will be able to experience every aspect of the game at the pace they want?

Don't play that shit with me. I was TMO. I know how it works. If you guys only step up and put forth the absolutely insane level of dedication we do, you can get dragons too. It's a broken system. You kids really need to learn to share your toys and quit destroying your lives.

[Breaken]

Don't play that shit with me. I was TMO. I know how it works. Lol effort.

So you are saying you did this, and it was okay. It isn't now because you grew tired of it.

[Fasttimes]

So you are saying you did this, and it was okay. It isn't now because you grew tired of it.

it was never okay, you do it for the pixels and fake competition. doesnt make it a good thing.

[Joyelle]

Hippos gonna crit, man.

[Breaken]

I also have heard from multiple guild leaders that these "agreements" made over the last few days were not as peachy as you all say they were. I won't out these leaders nor the guild, but I believe my sources.

[Cecily]

So you are saying you did this, and it was okay. It isn't now because you grew tired of it.

No Breaken, I have more experience than you do with our cancerous raiding system and I thought it sucked even when I benefited from it. I spent my last year in TMO gearing my ranger so I could play EQ solo because raiding on P99 was so awful. The way you play, the way I used to play, makes it that way.

[Ikon]

What about P99 says everyone who creates a character will be able to experience every aspect of the game at the pace they want?
Apart from the strawman you pulled out of your ass right there - P99 is a server that's supposed to be as close to classic as possible.

So to ignore that obvious strawman and answer the relevant question you accidentally asked - "what about P99 says?"

Answer: Rotations and lists were classic and your FTE alt tabbing bind sighting lawyerquesting skype sharing BS racing is not. Now I'm not suggesting any particular change here because I don't really care just answering the question you accidentally asked.

[RedXIII]

No Breaken, I have more experience than you do with our cancerous raiding system and I thought it sucked even when I benefited from it. I spent my last year in TMO gearing my ranger so I could play EQ solo because raiding on P99 was so awful. The way you play, the way I used to play, makes it that way.

wait... you did not agree with the way your guild done things... then you benefit from it... and after you get your ranger geared you left the people who showered you with pixels?

good stuff.

[Sancta]

I thought it sucked even when I benefited from it.

No one likes it, not a single person, unless they are on a variety of drugs. FTE racing and tracking is work and feels like work.

Everyone blaming A/A for a decision that the P99 Staff made is like blaming food because you got fat.

[Cecily]

wait... you did not agree with the way your guild done things... then you benefit from it... and after you get your ranger geared you left the people who showered you with pixels?

good stuff.

No, actually, the leadership I was loyal to was ousted and Forsaken happened. I was still TMO about a year into Velious until I applied to your train wreck of a guild.

[Cecily]

Here's my solution. A/A stop raiding for one week every month and let the rest of the server kill some things. It's simple and reasonable. LMK.

[Detoxx]

It's not hypocrisy its a simple judgement call. The current server rules favour poopsocking combined with high availability and actively prohibit scheduled raiding. And that's the core difference here. It's nothing to do with being able to race FTE or not, as many have said, anyone can participate in that.

But being able to get 40 people online within 1 hour is not viable for a lot of guild set ups. Heck it's not even desireable for most guilds even if it was viable.

So the judgement call is this. Keep the server rules as they are, favour poopsocking and pander to less than 200 people. Or change the rules, require rotation, and favour 2500 people.

1. As you all have seen, aside from 5 mobs, 40 people is overkill for most content.

2. If you cant field 40 all hours, thats fine. You set up and try your luck at winning an FTE during your guilds prime time. Once that window has expired, call it a day.

Im open to discussion between all guilds but to expect a full out rotation is highly unlikely.

[Cecily]

Please see my suggestion, Deterks.

[Detoxx]

Apart from the strawman you pulled out of your ass right there - P99 is a server that's supposed to be as close to classic as possible.

So to ignore that obvious strawman and answer the relevant question you accidentally asked - "what about P99 says?"

Answer: Rotations and lists were classic and your FTE alt tabbing bind sighting lawyerquesting skype sharing BS racing is not. Now I'm not suggesting any particular change here because I don't really care just answering the question you accidentally asked.

All guilds not seeing content was also classic. These rotations you speak of on live happened as the top guilds moved on to the next expansion.

[Sallan]

I also have heard from multiple guild leaders that these "agreements" made over the last few days were not as peachy as you all say they were. I won't out these leaders nor the guild, but I believe my sources.

I'll chime in a bit on this since I'm involved in the discussions. We came in to the party a little late and were the underdogs (non alliance), so some selections were a little difficult until we proved ourselves capable. I can't speak so much about the other party but that's more or less how it was for Infernus.

Also, the quake took most of us off-guard and that caused a little delay/confusion with the re-selection of mobs but given the time and how quickly we adopted, I'd say the leaders did a good job in agreeing once again to the mob distribution. Mind you this is new for majority of us coming together so albeit it's not perfect, it worked.

In the end a lot of "proving our mettle" has been done. From here on should there be a situation like this again, I can safely say that these guilds involved can very quickly come to an arrangement since the foundation has been laid

[Detoxx]

Btw, the all encompassing fix is simple:

No more weekly spawns;
Repop once a week on a variance.

No tracking, all guilds participate, problem solved.

[Sallan]

Here's my solution. A/A stop raiding for one week every month and let the rest of the server kill some things. It's simple and reasonable. LMK.

I actually think this is very reasonable and a good start, if nothing else better can be arranged

[Breaken]

Other solutions:

Fix loot tables to drop classic number of items
Reduce spawn timers to 3.5 days, and implement a Class R / Class C system
Do both
Do nothing

/shrug, just spitballing.

[Detoxx]

Of course it would suck that most hardcore raiders will park their menagerie of 60s out to get first picks but this would be a pretty sweet solution since no one has a headstart on knowing when mob is up

how many level 60s would you, personally, have parked at different locations tho detoxx?

1 60. Wouldn't matter considering you can only engage with one mob at a time. Your argument is misinformed.

[EdTuBrutus]

1. As you all have seen, aside from 5 mobs, 40 people is overkill for most content.

2. If you cant field 40 all hours, thats fine. You set up and try your luck at winning an FTE during your guilds prime time. Once that window has expired, call it a day.

Im open to discussion between all guilds but to expect a full out rotation is highly unlikely.

You do love a good strawman argument.

In order for the server to offer raid content throughout a week (so that it might somehow coincide with a guild scheduling raid time) is minimum of 11 weeks and would require at least one mob killed in the initial window to spawn in the first hour of its repop window every single week AND at least one mob killed in the initial window to spawn at its latest repop window every single week.

And even after those 11 weeks, the statistical chance that this happened and there is a content window open 24/7 through a week is still very low (less than 2%).

When did P99 last stay online, not reset and not repopped for 11 weeks?

[EdTuBrutus]

There is no real solution to fix the raiding here Cecily, you have a group of players who wont and refuse to poopsock mobs and you have players that enjoy the competition. Completely different play styles all living together in the home of P99.

I don't have an answer for any of it but all I know is the current raid system is a little dull. Its fun when all the windows are all together cause your running back and forth but thats about it. Some people will disagree and love the current system.

There is a solution. Just not a solution which works for everyone.

You either continue as the rules are, favouring around 200 people.

Or you move to enforced rotation, favouring 2500+ people.

[Breaken]

Or you move to enforced rotation, favouring 2500+ people.

And then when this 2500 + people start to break into their own guilds since there is a rotation, you now have 25 guilds with 100 in each, and that is being generous. 25 guilds, weekly spawns.. you see each spawn twice a year.

[fiveeauxfour]

but breaken, we would all go to sleep at night knowing we shared! yay!

[Detoxx]

You do love a good strawman argument.

In order for the server to offer raid content throughout a week (so that it might somehow coincide with a guild scheduling raid time) is minimum of 11 weeks and would require at least one mob killed in the initial window to spawn in the first hour of its repop window every single week AND at least one mob killed in the initial window to spawn at its latest repop window every single week.

And even after those 11 weeks, the statistical chance that this happened and there is a content window open 24/7 through a week is still very low (less than 2%).

When did P99 last stay online, not reset and not repopped for 11 weeks?

I'm trying but none of this makes sense. There's 40 or more raid mobs, you're telling me there's a 2% chance that any one will spawn in prime time on any week? Regardless, p99 has gone WELL over 11 weeks without a reset of any form more times than I can remeber it not.

[Zekayy]

Play Uthgard

[Zekayy]

K again rotation sounds good on paper till it actually happens look at what happened here bda broke the rotation like the assholes they are. ib/rampage went and woke the sleeper on eq mac which was on rotation to not wake it up for 10+ years need more proof?

[getsome]

ib/rampage went and woke the sleeper on eq mac which was on rotation to not wake it up for 10+ years need more proof?

How do you have a rotation to not wake something up?

You are terribly misinformed. I think about five people and a few boxes killed the last remaining warder and woke the sleeper and a week later it was sleeping again. I was invited to come but was busy that night.

[Zekayy]

How do you have a rotation to not wake something up?

You are terribly misinformed. I think about five people and a few boxes killed the last remaining warder and woke the sleeper and a week later it was sleeping again. I was invited to come but was busy that night.

all the guilds on that server had an agreement to not wake the sleeper IB came in there said fuck you up woke it up. it happened weather you want to admit it or not

[Zekayy]

How do you have a rotation to not wake something up?

You are terribly misinformed. I think about five people and a few boxes killed the last remaining warder and woke the sleeper and a week later it was sleeping again. I was invited to come but was busy that night.

Bump you playing uthgard yet?

[getsome]

I also have heard from multiple guild leaders that these "agreements" made over the last few days were not as peachy as you all say they were. I won't out these leaders nor the guild, but I believe my sources.

Our agreement was not perfect, but we did not need pages of rules to make it happen.

It happened based on good faith, respect, trust, and wanting to have a fun time and we did not resort to name calling or insults. Give it a try.



A/A chat channel

http://i.imgur.com/z8Stu7c.png



Rustle, FAV, CSG, Infernus , Moewvinity chat channel

http://i.imgur.com/ej4lCGI.png

[Wonkie]

if your opinion is different than mine, you are misinformed

[arsenalpow]

Real easy for getsome to take the pixel high road after he helped lead a guild that locked down p99 for years. You got your pixel fill so now you feel benevolent.

[Kagey]

[Mon Nov 07 17:27:33 2016] Getsome shouts, 'Server Rules are set on the boards, '
[Mon Nov 07 17:27:39 2016] Getsome shouts, 'not in skype chats'
[Mon Nov 07 17:27:45 2016] Getsome shouts, 'let us kill our mobs'
[Mon Nov 07 17:28:45 2016] Sirken shouts 'GETSOME'

[Zekayy]

[Mon Nov 07 17:27:33 2016] Getsome shouts, 'Server Rules are set on the boards, '
[Mon Nov 07 17:27:39 2016] Getsome shouts, 'not in skype chats'
[Mon Nov 07 17:27:45 2016] Getsome shouts, 'let us kill our mobs'
[Mon Nov 07 17:28:45 2016] Sirken shouts 'GETSOME'

Lol funny shit

[Swish]

[Mon Nov 07 17:27:33 2016] Getsome shouts, 'Server Rules are set on the boards, '
[Mon Nov 07 17:27:39 2016] Getsome shouts, 'not in skype chats'
[Mon Nov 07 17:27:45 2016] Getsome shouts, 'let us kill our mobs'
[Mon Nov 07 17:28:45 2016] Sirken shouts 'GETSOME'

lol

[Ikon]

And then when this 2500 + people start to break into their own guilds since there is a rotation, you now have 25 guilds with 100 in each, and that is being generous. 25 guilds, weekly spawns.. you see each spawn twice a year.
Only cheating morons would do this - ban cheating morons, problem solved.

[Culkasi]

Other solutions:

Reduce spawn timers to 3.5 days, and implement a Class R / Class C system


/shrug, just spitballing.

This might be the best suggestion I have heard

[Andos]

It's not hypocrisy its a simple judgement call. The current server rules favour poopsocking combined with high availability and actively prohibit scheduled raiding. And that's the core difference here. It's nothing to do with being able to race FTE or not, as many have said, anyone can participate in that.

But being able to get 40 people online within 1 hour is not viable for a lot of guild set ups. Heck it's not even desireable for most guilds even if it was viable.

So the judgement call is this. Keep the server rules as they are, favour poopsocking and pander to less than 200 people. Or change the rules, require rotation, and favour 2500 people.

It would certainly favor more than 2500 since you'd likely see more joining/coming back to the server.

[Skew]

This might be the best suggestion I have heard

Naw. Detoxx and Cecily actually has the best suggestion. No indivudual mob vsriance just a weekly rumble with variance. Then one week in four have a casual gsmgbsng with AA back on their practice server as we know theyre goimg to be pulling all sorts of BS during the other 3 weeks so just give the staff a break amd have them am automatic "rest".

[Zekayy]

Dont be an idiot just add no variance like they had back on live problem solved

[Ikon]

There is no fix to raiding as long as the toxic people remain on the server - remove the small group of unemployed people and you fix the server.

How do you do that? If I went into a newbie zone and started shouting obscenities and insults in chat I'd get a warning or a ban. Same standards should apply to all zones, including tells, irrespective of what guild you are in or what your doing.

Staff have let standards of behavior towards others slide so badly that the usual effect of the toxic idiot being banned isn't happening - you can tell someone in /shout /ooc to go kill themselves, f their mother, pretty much anything and nothing will be done during raiding. When you consider this stuff is being said over a really badly rendered 2 dimensional dragon in a video game and the offenders are adults its embarrassing.

I guarantee you within a few months the worst offenders on the server will be gone, they cannot help themselves, and with them gone theres a chance that people will step in and start to act a little better towards others playing this game.

[Whirled]

Sadly, they wont ever leave. Look @ Red. It's the same few handful that will cling to their fake heroes with BiS until they pull the plug. Mos Eisley comes to mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0znNiN0lYAQ
It's like pulling the alcoholic out of the bar. They wouldn't go without a fight.

[Skew]

Dont be an idiot just add no variance like they had back on live problem solved

So the big targets can all be contested like Nobles or back in the day Traks with 300 people logged in ready to go. Nah.

[Brut]

No variance is just about the worst idea there is. Leads to rampant poopsocking (ACTUAL poopsocking, it's way worse than what we got here, trust me), nonstop zone desyncs/crashes, bad times all around. Nothx.

[Zekayy]

Meh really dont give a shit either way was just throwing an idea out there come play uthgard everyone let the neckbeards take over p99 3000 people on uthgard during prime is more than p99. dark age is alot of fun.

[Ssouky]

And then when this 2500 + people start to break into their own guilds since there is a rotation, you now have 25 guilds with 100 in each, and that is being generous. 25 guilds, weekly spawns.. you see each spawn twice a year.

Well... This would be much more than what most already get. I bet all but 3 guilds would sign for this on the server.

I like the ideas of randomed weekly earthquake or the one of a 3,5days rotated with class.
I also would push the idea : don't touch anything as it is now. Just do this kind of weekend every quarter. 4 "private" earthquakes a year. Wouldn't deprive the top dogs too much, and make everyone happy. No need to "ban" A/A, just ask them for a 3-days-no-raid. Would that be much to ask ?

[Bubbles]

I'll just say this. If you want to argue that you are better at following the rules, thats great. You are also the reason the rules are in place. So don't expect a gold star and a thumbs up.

You want to say casuals did it with large massive turnouts. We did.

I saw a world where Infernus handled *anything* they were given.

I saw a world where kittens were fighting dragons.

I saw a world where pantless conga lines in TOV took place between pulls.

I saw a world where everyone managed to kill each other with Ice Burrowers, and then people got ressed instead of death threats and gruff.

I saw a world where dragons died and kids got bedtime stories in the same day.

I saw a world where guides and gms came in to hang out just to see what was going on.. Cuz their petition queues were light and they werent getting 5k word essays in purple text for the play-by-play of whom was infringing upon whom's pixel acquisition.

If anything should scare A / A, its the fact that people had a good time temporarily and great fun was had with the absolute bare minimum gm involvement.

< Spoiler Alert >It's Rogean's server.. And god forbid he wakes up some morning and decides 1 of 2 things.

1 . ) He would have to consider Forum Troll assertions that :Rustle and CSG if left alone would just strong arm and lawyerquest the same way A / A did over a period of time.. .... It has merit, but if your best argument is 'DUDE THEY MIGHT ONE DAY ACTUALLY BE AS TERRIBLE AS US' ....Then that is simply a laughably weak argument.

2 . ) He might say screw it and just pull the plug on the server.... Nilbog wanted to make classic eq. And he did. Game Over.

or hell, since it's RnF

3. ) Wake up one morning and just xfer both guilds in their entirety to Red99. Because the only thing better than FTE is LTE. And there is nothing more fun for competitive guilds than competing against a known entity thats spent the last few years cornering the market on pumice stones and root nets and the like, while farming every raid mob they've wanted. Divine Justice, one could argue. :)

[Necrostoner]

Naw. Detoxx and Cecily actually has the best suggestion. No indivudual mob vsriance just a weekly rumble with variance. Then one week in four have a casual gsmgbsng with AA back on their practice server as we know theyre goimg to be pulling all sorts of BS during the other 3 weeks so just give the staff a break amd have them am automatic "rest".

Pretty sure it was Breaken who first said that 25 pages or so ago.

[Breaken]

Set the earthquake on a 16 hour variance, and have a serverwide emote announcing the respawn an hour in advance. This gives all raiders time to batphone and mobilize. They can get to the mob they plan to kill first, see the competition at said mob, and decide if they want to compete against that raid or move to another.

You would have to require raids to stay at zone in though. Thinking specific for ToV, Kael races, but for CT, you would not zone in until the earthquake, and Skyshrine, you cannot start cothing until the earthquake, etc.

It's one solution. It doesn't address the real concern though:

some, but left overs, they mobilize fast enough and can snap kill at a greater rate. we wouldnt be totally left out, but would have 1-2 mobs. max compared to 10

You guys don't get enough targets, and the ones you do are left overs.

Other solutions:

Fix loot tables to drop classic number of items
Reduce spawn timers to 3.5 days, and implement a Class R / Class C system

This solves that problem, but I won't hold my breath for these changes. Here is the truth you overlook

Dragons are left up constantly- the issue is, they are not the "right" ones.

Leaving things up happens each cycle of spawns, its called prioitizing

I dont think people realize how poweful locked encounters are when it comes to distributing

All of West ToV, Ikky, Sevalak, Jorlleag to name the ToV ones. Sometimes more, sometimes less, depending what else is in window. Klandicar, Velk, Wuoshi, *Tunare* are all left up for hours, some even days. If you wanted mobs, these are free for the taking.

Rotations do not work.

Only cheating morons would do this - ban cheating morons, problem solved.

Why would 25 guilds with 100 people in each be cheating? It doesn't take 100 people to kill these mobs. Each guild would be able to kill everything, and even if they couldn't, you are preaching for an all inclusive rotation. They would belong on it to at least attempt the encounters. So, 25 guilds on a rotation. Where do we sign up?

[Swish]

This thread: http://i.imgur.com/01dJR8r.gif

[shtampy]

TL;DR of this thread

EQ has always, and will always be driven by pixel lusting neckbeards.

Weekend without them was nice

Welcome back nerds

[Necrostoner]

TL;DR of this thread

EQ has always, and will always be driven by pixel lusting neckbeards.

Weekend without them was nice

Welcome back nerds

Ok, so lets use our brain and read these posts and try to learn. These same people that you keep bashing, keep giving you solutions to your problems. Yet, you keep repeating yourselves.

Take some initiative (I know its hard but you can do it) and petition the solutions that have been put fourth in front of you and band together like you keep stating you do so well, form an alliance and get these changes implemented. I'm sure a boycott or protest could get this done or at least help set things off in a direction you would like.

Your real problem here whether you want to accept it or not, is the way the server is setup. Not the people who are playing the game. You see, someone can change the way things spawn but they don't. These people you have problem with cannot make these changes. They are just taking the initiative to play the game the best way they possibly can given the circumstances.

So open a box, type some keys and get to work.

[Daldaen]

3.5 day respawn with Class C / Class R would be pretty funny. Problem though will be the break point for mobs. Because Class R mobs will inevitably stay alive longer, pushing windows back further. May cause bleeding over spawns between the two tiers.

Also you'd need to set the point somewhere fair. Like... Saturday/Sunday at midnight. So that each class gets a full weekend day? So... Wednesday Noon - Saturday Midnight / Sunday - Wednesday Noon

Still 16 hour variance should burn in a fire. At most 2 hours satisfies the purpose it should. Especially with the current racing rules in Kael and ToV. Class C nerds may poopsock the Dain/Yelinak/CT mobs sure. But they will only be 2-3 guilds. Won't be causing 300 person desynch fests. Class R will be the most and they won't be poopsocking anything.

[Breaken]

3.5 day respawn with Class C / Class R would be pretty funny. Problem though will be the break point for mobs. Because Class R mobs will inevitably stay alive longer, pushing windows back further. May cause bleeding over spawns between the two tiers.

Who cares? The mob would either be Class C or Class R. Not all Class C mobs have to spawn together. You either choose to join the rotation in Class R and rotate those spawns, or you choose to race/compete, whatever you want to call it, and go after Class C mobs.

(And reduce variance. This benefits both Class R rotation and Class C competition)
(And fix loot tables. This benefits both Class R rotation and Class C competition)

[shtampy]

Ok, so lets use our brain and read these posts and try to learn. These same people that you keep bashing, keep giving you solutions to your problems. Yet, you keep repeating yourselves.

--Take some initiative (I know its hard but you can do it) and petition the solutions that have been put fourth in front of you and band together like you keep stating you do so well, form an alliance and get these changes implemented. I'm sure a boycott or protest could get this done or at least help set things off in a direction you would like.

Your real problem here whether you want to accept it or not, is the way the server is setup. Not the people who are playing the game. You see, someone can change the way things spawn but they don't. These people you have problem with cannot make these changes. They are just taking the initiative to play the game the best way they possibly can given the circumstances.

So open a box, type some keys and get to work.

http://i.imgur.com/avHnbUZ.gif

[Necrostoner]

The overall point this entire thread concludes that a 85% majority of people that want to raid on this server are disgruntled and are blaming other players because the players are the easiest target.

In fact, even the people that are at the top 15% (i'm pulling these percentages out of my ass) don't even like the way the variance or the raid situation as it is either! obviously for differing reasons but that is besides the point.

Look at the amount of effort from the player base in this discussion. Including the people that you keep saying are the problem

Look at the amount of dev responses in the thread. Now, I hope you all know where to take this from Bitchquest to Winquest/Funquest/Whateverthefuckyouwanttocallitquest. Sure as shit you all hate Trackquest and or Sockquest. Do something about it.

[Swish]

http://i.imgur.com/avHnbUZ.gif

muh pixels

[Necrostoner]

That made me LOL Shtampy.

[shtampy]

I thought the point of this thread is that 85% of the server enjoyed a weekend where 15% of the server was banned from raiding. Some people wanted to find ways to make it stay like that, but it wont happen cause it's not classic (and it shouldn't happen, it's really not classic). And besides, pixel lust is real. If it's not A/A it'll be the next group and the next group.

Maybe this weekend of harmony is enough to get people to chill out a little and reduce their petition questing and rules lawyering. Maybe A/A could take a page out of the casual scum book and try to get along with each other, making the overall raid scene less toxic and reducing the need for GM intervention and babysitting.

Or we could just call it a nice weekend, and welcome back the fully immersed.

[maskedmelon]

We need to deprivatize runners.

Going forward, prior to a run, all runners /random 100. Each runner's number is logged and each assumes his (girls don't do this shit) position on the line.

Whenever a mob spawns, whoever is at the line runs for the mob. Whoever gets FTE is awarded temporarary title for a week (Gozzrem FTE, or whatever the mob is), everyone who participated in a given run receives a gnomish firework.

Next, all guild leaders /random 100 to determine which runner represented their guild. Runners are then asigned to guilds based on roll proximity.

In the even of a tie, the first guild (of the two guilds who tied of course) to bag a Pegasus Feather Cloak shall be awarded the mob. This adds a fun twist to ties and helps alleviate competitive congestion by providing guilds with rewarding alternatives.

Under no circumstance shall it ever be permissible to "concede" mobs to other guilds (single or collections thereof).

In the event of a conflict within these rules, the party to identify it shall be sacrificed from raid level (down to 45) and the Essence Emeralds from their sacrifice shall be distributed fairly to the other parties involved as follows:

1/3 shall be awarded to the winning runner. They shall be his to use for a period not to exceed one week, whereupon he shall surrender the balance to the Sacramento fixed individual from which they were sourced. In this way, the sacrificed individual shall have the opportunity to a. reflect upon what he has done with the essence emeralds as a bold reminder and b. contribute to the P99 economy in the purchase of power leveling services to regain his lost levels.

1/3 shall be awarded to the guild accused of violation. These shall be theirs to use for a period not to exceed one week, whereupon they too shall be returned to the sacrificed individual from which they were sourced.

1/3 shall be divided among all parties present in the temple of veeshan at the time of event. These shall be theirs to keep and use as they see fit. They shall not under any circumstance be returned to the sacrificed individual from whom they were sourced.

[Necrostoner]

That how it was started but not the overall point. Macro view is the best. Don't judge a book by its cover. Maybe, you are catching the drift.

[Phantasm]

I'm really interested to see how long before the usual antics continue from the A's and what/if anything is done to them when inevitably they foam and froth.

My guess: no time flat

We've identified the problem with high end raiding numerous times; unanimously decided as overcrowding. Now we've had some solutions suggested: rotations, increased spawn rates, increased drop rates, lockouts, simulated repops to replace the week-week model. Good start, too bad nothing ever changes and never will.

It sounds depressing as hell to admit but that's the way it is. This project was not intended for the good of the many. Either compromise (find a way to appeal to the class C's), compete (naw), or concede (give up).

Either way, I'm looking forward to the new Alliance (you guys need a name btw) and seeing what'll happen when CSG 1 combines with CSG 2. Maybe final form?

[Ikon]

Why would 25 guilds with 100 people in each be cheating? It doesn't take 100 people to kill these mobs. Each guild would be able to kill everything, and even if they couldn't, you are preaching for an all inclusive rotation. They would belong on it to at least attempt the encounters. So, 25 guilds on a rotation. Where do we sign up?
Do I really have to explain why breaking up your guild into smaller guilds so you get more spots in a rotation would be dishonest?

Do you have a super low IQ or are you pretending to have one? Would you be interested in being studied?

[Phantasm]

Dishonest or not its what people would do Ikon.
He didn't say he *would* break his guild up, but inevitably something would happen where the inflated guilds as they exist now would shrink and smaller guilds would take over. Like it's been stated many times, the content isn't too challenging, more of a kill it before it kills you thing. Kill the things, with the things.

But if a rotation existed people would perfect it, kill targets with less people to maximize the gainz (#), and so naturally try to keep their guilds small (or entities separated).

[RedXIII]

No reason to have a 200 member guild if you get to schedule and kill shit with 40-50ppl.

Just team up with another 40-50 for aow/tunare.

The retarded and low IQ in this thread is you. Guilds are this big because we need people from all time zones to cover 24/7 times.

QQ harder. Its lovely.

High end game pixels were never something everyone can get. thats classic. deal with it.

[Expediency]

You guys are dreaming big. Dream smaller and negotiate a 1 month rotation for the month of february. That way after a month we can see what worked and what didnt and nobody gets their feelings hurt when it gets broken since its scheduled to end.

Things change, guilds grow and die, leaders retire; an open ended rotation would be great but hard to set up with those variables. So eliminate the time factor and try something short term.

[Phantasm]

Rotations water down the competitiveness that everyone enjoys so much about raiding. THey are always designed with grand purpose but always devolve into the same thing, getting the most for the least.

What I think would be best is actual punishment with accumulating offenses. To me seems pretty clear which guilds are involved with the most squabbling (be it inherent to having more raids or not). However, rules are rules, even if there are more for some people. IMO if you break the rules the rules should break you (bans, removals, suspensions)

[Jauna]

Rotations water down the competitiveness that everyone enjoys so much about raiding.)

Yeah Rustle seemed so sad and disappointed you got 3-4 days of uncontested ntov

[Phantasm]

AFAIK Rustle actively races when the timers line up with the runners.

<- doesn't actually play that often

Next time I agree Rustle shouldn't kill any targets when A/A is suspended. It just makes them look weak and unapologetic at the same time

[Jauna]

<- doesn't actually play that often

Im out

[Ikon]

High end game pixels were never something everyone can get. thats classic. deal with it.
Wrong. Enforced rotations were classic and high end pixels were available to everyone because of that - The classic PnP that was introduced in 2000 ensured sharing and guilds that didn't follow the rules were disbanded. The FTE racing here is the opposite of classic.

[maskedmelon]

Wrong. Enforced rotations were classic and high end pixels were available to everyone because of that - The classic PnP that was introduced in 2000 ensured sharing and guilds that didn't follow the rules were disbanded. The FTE racing here is the opposite of classic.

maybe on your server, but that's hardly a universal truth among all servers



ohhhhhhhhhhhh

[Kagey]

I will not alt tab jump race. It's illegal. I've watched videos of my guys with a distinct first off the line advantage, jumping, strafing, catching all the air at the right corners and still somehow this mid air glitchy iksar monk comes soaring overhead while having slight epileptic airborn seizures to get FTEs.

For some reason we only see this on Eashen, Vulak and Dozekar. I don't see it too often on other mob races.

Iksar eh.. Maybe your boys r not using the right items to fte? .. Cause some clicks have different ranges.. I remember a vulak where ghoul got fte over Aikons? All by timing a jump when Aikons was actually ahead of him..
But AM has beat us numerous times to eashan. And you can too. You gotta stop making petty excuses though on why you should actually 'try'.

[Fifield]

Iksar eh.. Maybe your boys r not using the right items to fte? .. Cause some clicks have different ranges.. I remember a vulak where ghoul got fte over Aikons? All by timing a jump when Aikons was actually ahead of him..
But AM has beat us numerous times to eashan. And you can too. You gotta stop making petty excuses though on why you should actually 'try'.

Gonna have to agree with kagey on this one, gotta at least try, maybe now that the casuals have been showered with pixels they will want more!

I do get and understand your frustration with getting a solid jump and strafe running just to get passed by an alt tabber. but its the world of FTE races. adapt or lose

[Wonkie]

does CSG even keep timers on NTOV mobs?

[Mud]

The raid scene has come a long way, and imo the current rules are pretty generous compared to how things use to be (not saying the current ruleset is ideal, though). Trip down memory lane, anyone?

- 96 hour windows with extended variance.
- No FTE yellow text -- GMs had to announce who had FTE after the mob was dead.
- Tracker, FTE'er, and puller were often the same player.
- The mob had to be pulled straight to your camp once FTE'd -- no one hour grace period. Engages happened in minutes.

Also, shame on those of you in this thread that made Classic and Kunark hell that are trying to paint yourselves in a new light. You know who you are.

Anything that gives someone an advantage in a race is illegal. It's the same reason crown of riles were removed from racing. I just ask Braknar for confirmation and received this information.

This needs to be posted and confirmed by a GM in the Raid Discussion forum for all to see. As I'm sure you remember, rules being created on the fly in Skype and often only being known to the top guilds has historically been a major problem on P99.

[nyclin]

Wrong. Enforced rotations were classic and high end pixels were available to everyone because of that

please provide evidence for your claims

[Brut]

Anything that gives someone an advantage in a race is illegal. It's the same reason crown of riles were removed from racing. I just ask Braknar for confirmation and received this information.
Awesome. Lost tons of FTEs to that +50 range on slowstones. Ban this filth.

[maskedmelon]

please provide evidence for your claims

He just misunderstanding (or misrepresenting, though I honestly don't think so)discussion he dug up from the era.

We just hashed it out here:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262433&page=17

[Kagey]

Dro had rotations in tov... with 2 guilds only. Hoss & Vindication.

It was releasing of new expansions that allowed lower guilds to enter tov when those 2 guilds left to do luclin.

This was not GM enforced rotations, it was created by the guilds.

[Kagey]

.

[Jorgam]

Dro had rotations in tov... with 2 guilds only. Hoss & Vindication.

It was releasing of new expansions that allowed lower guilds to enter tov when those 2 guilds left to do luclin.

This was not GM enforced rotations, it was created by the guilds.

Was in Pravus Mortis on Dro. It is true that top end velious wasn't open till Luclin dropped.

[Rang]

Your FTE doesn't mean shit. There won't be any textbooks on P99. If you have offspring they won't give a shit about your EQ stories when you are 70. No one will remember this server in 10 years or who you were in A/A, ever. This weekend proved the massive waste of human IRL hours is completely unnecessary. I guess when you have invested literal IRL years of your life into something it becomes more than a game. I hope the masses read this thread and vote with their feet and take A/A's advice and roll on Phinny or play DAOC so you can have actual fun on a game and leave these people to rot (because you know they won't log out, even with single digit population).

[nyclin]

Your FTE doesn't mean shit. There won't be any textbooks on P99. If you have offspring they won't give a shit about your EQ stories when you are 70. No one will remember this server in 10 years or who you were in A/A, ever. This weekend proved the massive waste of human IRL hours is completely unnecessary. I guess when you have invested literal IRL years of your life into something it becomes more than a game. I hope the masses read this thread and vote with their feet and take A/A's advice and roll on Phinny or play DAOC so you can have actual fun on a game and leave these people to rot (because you know they won't log out, even with single digit population).

this just in: eq is a massive waste of time, regardless of how you play it

[nectarprime]

Your FTE doesn't mean shit. There won't be any textbooks on P99. If you have offspring they won't give a shit about your EQ stories when you are 70. No one will remember this server in 10 years or who you were in A/A, ever. This weekend proved the massive waste of human IRL hours is completely unnecessary. I guess when you have invested literal IRL years of your life into something it becomes more than a game. I hope the masses read this thread and vote with their feet and take A/A's advice and roll on Phinny or play DAOC so you can have actual fun on a game and leave these people to rot (because you know they won't log out, even with single digit population).

are you a special needs person

[Maschenny]

Your FTE doesn't mean shit. There won't be any textbooks on P99. If you have offspring they won't give a shit about your EQ stories when you are 70. No one will remember this server in 10 years or who you were in A/A, ever. This weekend proved the massive waste of human IRL hours is completely unnecessary. I guess when you have invested literal IRL years of your life into something it becomes more than a game. I hope the masses read this thread and vote with their feet and take A/A's advice and roll on Phinny or play DAOC so you can have actual fun on a game and leave these people to rot (because you know they won't log out, even with single digit population).

You're the most toxic thing I've seen since i got here

[Phantasm]

think you hit a nerve there Rang

[Fifield]

I hope the masses read this thread and vote with their feet and take A/A's advice and roll on Phinny or play DAOC so you can have actual fun on a game .

Why not play all 3! =D

[nectarprime]

think you hit a nerve there Rang

Not at all - I have no dog in this fight. I am a filthy casual and my highest toon is 44. This guy is just retarded

[Cecily]

AFAIK Rustle actively races when the timers line up with the runners.

<- doesn't actually play that often

Next time I agree Rustle shouldn't kill any targets when A/A is suspended. It just makes them look weak and unapologetic at the same time

http://i.imgur.com/CGE7CeO.gif

[Maner]

You guys are dreaming big. Dream smaller and negotiate a 1 month rotation for the month of february. That way after a month we can see what worked and what didnt and nobody gets their feelings hurt when it gets broken since its scheduled to end.

Things change, guilds grow and die, leaders retire; an open ended rotation would be great but hard to set up with those variables. So eliminate the time factor and try something short term.

Everytime you post its borderline idiocy. There are already too many Guilds that want to rotate to fit them all in one month lol.

[maskedmelon]

Everytime you post its borderline idiocy. There are already too many Guilds that want to rotate to fit them all in one month lol.

That not very nice. Her point just that peeps should aim lower and I am going to assume she didn't mean each guild in rotation would get a full TOV pop per rotation slot. Think she meant something more along the lines of what happened this weekend ^^

[Maschenny]

That not very nice. Her point just that peeps should aim lower and I am going to assume she didn't mean each guild in rotation would get a full TOV pop per rotation slot. Think she meant something more along the lines of what happened this weekend ^^

Even so, with so many interested guilds.. each would only see a couple spawns a month. Competition at least gives the illusion that your guild can have any raid target. A rotation on everything would just be stagnant and boring.

[maskedmelon]

Even so, with so many interested guilds.. each would only see a couple spawns a month. Competition at least gives the illusion that your guild can have any raid target. A rotation on everything would just be stagnant and boring.

Yeah, I agree, I think rotation is demoralizing because it flatly says YOU CANNOT blah blah blah. Current setup, sky is the limit if you practice, work hard & build a good team (^｡^)

[snead]

It was an awesome past few days. Thanks to all the guilds in on the agreement. We got to nail some targets that are otherwise a shit show. This set the tone of a perfect setting for a PvE server. As far as I knew the competitors played PvP so I'm not sure who some of you top guys think you're kidding?

I have no major qualms with Awakened or Aftermath, but your "leading of the server" can be questionable at best. Poopsocking, FTE racing, and lawyerquesting is some of the most ridiculous MMO stuff I've seen. I urge you guys to work with us all more on spreading out this content. We're not all interested in talking about how great we are. We already know it, and quite frankly, FoH, Anonymous, and Venerate fucking crushed our targets that you guys think are only reserved for the "top notch" players. We don't even have the gear that you guys do from consistently farming the top Tier targets... sooo that should tell you something. It's asinine to talk about how to or who knows how to manage MMO strats. To quote the "17 year old elf simulator" quote, this ain't anyone's first rodeo.

For Karana's sake, open the throne rooms and vaults to diplomacy already. The real war is with the Dragons and Giants, and you're not the only ones who can do this anymore. Everyone else just did. Time to stop with the "how great are we though?" stuff.

pretty sure A/A (Forsaken/Rampage) did this day one with kunark gear and without more in depth knowledge of how velious was on p99 over a year ago. not sure why it's a big deal you doing it a year later with velious gear.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Zekayy]

Meh really dont give a shit either way was just throwing an idea out there come play uthgard everyone let the neckbeards take over p99 3000 people on uthgard during prime is more than p99. dark age is alot of fun.


Bump you guys playing uthgard yet?

[Zekayy]

pretty sure A/A (Forsaken/Rampage) did this day one with kunark gear and without more in depth knowledge of how velious was on p99 over a year ago. not sure why it's a big deal you doing it a year later with velious gear.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Aye we did when velious launched we all had kunark gear and everything died its nothing new

[Zekayy]

Also if you guys in csg and anonymous/foh/venerate are good at killing shit why isnt sontalak dead? he should be the true target to worry about not these silly tov dragons or why isnt tunare dead?

[snead]

Also if you guys in csg and anonymous/foh/venerate are good at killing shit why isnt sontalak dead? he should be the true target to worry about not these silly tov dragons or why isnt tunare dead?

^ def some respect if they cleared sont outside of tov weekly.

[bktroost]

Also if you guys in csg and anonymous/foh/venerate are good at killing shit why isnt sontalak dead? he should be the true target to worry about not these silly tov dragons or why isnt tunare dead?

Bah, we actually planned on this. Same reason Tunare wasn't dead. The earthquake wrecked our social life and the repop following the earthquake made sure we did get sleep. Lots of mobs and was lots of fun, but super taxing.

Some mobs had to go.

[Zekayy]

Bah, we actually planned on this. Same reason Tunare wasn't dead. The earthquake wrecked our social life and the repop following the earthquake made sure we did get sleep. Lots of mobs and was lots of fun, but super taxing.

Some mobs had to go.

all I hear is excuses.

[Zekayy]

Aftermath still the only guild to kill sontalak....... several months ago

[Yoink1986]

^ don't be bitter because a lot of people had fun. Makes you look bad.

[Freakish]

I wish they would make a hard mode zone. Let the casuals get their rotated pixels and the hardcore can race for original vyemm level dragons. Now that I think about it that's just like WoW and its heroic raids.

[Zekayy]

I wish they would make a hard mode zone. Let the casuals get their rotated pixels and the hardcore can race for original vyemm level dragons. Now that I think about it that's just like WoW and its heroic raids.

LOL you mean mythic not heroic

[Zekayy]

^ don't be bitter because a lot of people had fun. Makes you look bad.

Not bitter we been doing this shit for a whole year it gets old after killing the same dragons and dragons over and over again

[Danth]

LOL you mean mythic not heroic

I find it amusing that Warcraft had to come up with a new term for hard mode after the developers over there severely watered down their original hard mode so that inept players could reliably win.

Sontalak is pretty tough. Be interesting to see a mid-tier guild take him down. The consumables and quick reactions needed from the entire force make the encounter a bit different than the norm for P19999--where being present and clicking "assist" when ordered usually suffices.

Danth

[Froakula]

Sont loot blows not worth the effort.

[Kagey]

Sont loot blows not worth the effort.

totally not worth it with the money being spent on consumables.

Its really just about knowing your guild can accomplish the hardest encounter in the game.

[Zekayy]

Sont loot blows not worth the effort.

Sleepers key greatest loot of all