A Beginner's Guide to the P1999 Raid Scene?

[Brontus]

I've been playing P1999 for about a year now and enjoying myself with various low to mid level characters. Some of them have reached level 50 and now I am starting to contemplate joining a raiding guild on this server.

Back in days of yore on EQ live, raiding was very rewarding as it enabled you to progress your character and enjoy a sense of camaraderie with your fellow gulidmates. And yes, it took a lot of work but the sense of satisfaction of taking down a uber boss was immense.

However, I have read many unsavory things about the P1999 raid scene on these forums. From all all accounts its seems like Lord of the Flies where a lot guilds are competing for a few raid targets. Apparently you need to have a "bat phone" and be ready to log on your character at a moments notice. I also hear that many guilds have raiding targets and zones on lockdown and sell looting rights to the highest bidder. After all of this, I'm honestly wondering if it's worth it to join a guild.

I have tried to read the Raid Discussion forums but the language is so complex, convoluted and full of legalese that my head hurts.

Does anyone have some advice or can provide links to a beginner's guide for new players about what to expect and what's really going on with the P1999 raid scene?

What are the pros and cons to joining a raiding guild?

How much time per week must one devote to a raiding guild?

This is not a troll post. I am really looking for some honest analysis of what is going on here and what to expect if I were to join a raiding guild. Thanks in advance for any guidance that anyone can provide. :)

[Kodim]

Be a warm body who only logs in when a batphone goes out like 90% of other people.

It's very easy and doesn't take up too much time.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

You did not mention your class. Different classes have different raid roles. Raiding as a monk or bard is very different from raiding as a wizard or bard.

Batphone is all. Batphone is God. Back in live, this was also true up until contested content got replaced with instanced content. p99 has no instanced content: it is all contested.

For raid mobs, there are "windows" of time in which they can spawn which raid guilds keep track of. So, a mob can spawn five minutes into that window, or 5 hours. Hence the need for a call list as well as "tracking" characters who track when a mob pops, and then the call goes out for people to log on immediately.

Burn out and turnover under such a raid scene is pretty high. I kind of disagree with Kodim. It is not "very easy." At least for some, jumping out of bed and getting into the world at 3am in 5 minutes on a worknight is pretty much the definition of a massive pita.

But if you can put yourself on that kind of notice, yes, p99 raiding is easy. The most efficient strats are super well-known, and stuff dies very fast as a result.

The big factor is what class you play. If you play a pulling class, you have a learning curve of how to do the strats. But if you play a dps or buffing class, you just have to not be an idiot and listen to instructions.

Ideally, p99 raiding is a perfect fit for you if you are a bubble boy who cannot leave their antiseptic room because of a botched immune system, and so being available to log on in a moment's notice during spawn windows is no problem for you. Just do not be surprised when someone says the actual answer is "moops" and the gm's side with them.

[Swish]

http://i.imgur.com/aIj2TkL.gif

[Ikon]

Some of things you mention here was the same on live in the uber guilds. I raided in one of the top guilds and before I quit we had to have bat phones / get up at 3am often, were required to be online 30 hours per week minimum, log into other peoples accounts and box them if they were not able to be online, often we were boxing 2 or 3 paid accounts in breach of the EULA on a regular basis to take down targets. Loot was denied to most people who had a job simply because they had a job and there was no way for them to beat out others on loot rights.

The main difference on this server is the level of discourtesy and anti-social behavior. We had a rants and flames forum for our server and it never reached the level of digusting it reaches here. In game in /ooc or /shout the disrespect between guilds is over the top and would have gotten you banned on live.

I think the main difference here is because of a lack of staff and because people have been able to get away with things that were not tolerated on live they've gone downhill over a long period of time and the toxicity has become concentrated to a point its embarrassing to read - considering the majority of the people doing this are grown up men likely with children and families and ex-bosses.

[Swish]

Is it time to axe blue RNF? Do the attitudes we are seeing in game stem from some of the RNF stuff out of the game?

[Ikon]

Is it time to axe blue RNF? Do the attitudes we are seeing in game stem from some of the RNF stuff out of the game?
I think its time to ban people who take things too far. To far being what an average person would consider unacceptable behavior towards another person on a forum about regarding a computer game.

I stopped my kid playing the game, he'was 13 at the time mainly because of forums. Sure I could tell him not to read them but the thing is those people are in game and as far as I'm concerned I wouldn't want him grouping or otherwise interacting with people like that - at the time they were posting explicit pictures of gay sex and so on, obviously fucked in the head.

[Swish]

Yeah that's a low point of the forums where hours would sometimes go by without anyone deleting threads/posts with that crap in them. Most groups I've been in have been fine, occasionally you'll get a guy who loves to make his weed habits public or there'll be some adult conversation but mostly people just get on with leveling etc :p

[Ravager]

However, I have read many unsavory things about the P1999 raid scene on these forums. From all all accounts its seems like Lord of the Flies where a lot guilds are competing for a few raid targets. Apparently you need to have a "bat phone" and be ready to log on your character at a moments notice. I also hear that many guilds have raiding targets and zones on lockdown and sell looting rights to the highest bidder. After all of this, I'm honestly wondering if it's worth it to join a guild.
You've read the threads. Those are the people you'll either be rubbing elbows with or butting heads against. If they seem like a fun group on the forums, you're probably deranged enough to enjoy their company in game.

[Xzavie]

Pick a new game unless you think sitting on mob spawns hoping you get "first to engage" is cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYQdmLgc71Q

[Swish]

Pick a new game unless you think sitting on mob spawns hoping you get "first to engage" is cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYQdmLgc71Q

Great vid that sums it up.

[Xaanka]

Pick a new game unless you think sitting on mob spawns hoping you get "first to engage" is cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYQdmLgc71Q

this is accurate raiding on p99 is shit

[derpcake]

Raiding on blue has devolved into a soul-crushing level of poopsockery only the true anti-social no-lifers do well at.

Arrived at the level several times, quit each time, the raiding itself is stale and there are no achievements to pursue, dealing with the people that commit their lives to such a thing is far too much to ask.

I am convinced I have more fun at work, and that actually pays.

[Ivory]

What if....there was a new server with max level of 30?.....and no level minimums on stuff.

No root, no mez, no slow, no charm against high end stuff...

The game would never become easy. You could kill dragons, but it would be HARD.

There would be legendary raids where the server came together and tried to invade plane of hate.

[fadetree]

What if...people stopped being such dickheads to each other?

[lonmoer]

It's fun if you like seeing all the 100k+ items go to officers and are satisfied with the occasional scrap that falls off the table.

[Whirled]

What if...people stopped being such dickheads to each other?

That's impossible, because as we've seen numerous times here; the kiddies can't play nice. You have camp disputes + raid disputes daily. Heck, I saw a small group of people roll over a duo last night just because they could and pulled their mobs onto the other duo's camp area and took those monsters too. It's become, "whoever can be the biggest douche bag wins. "
Others have said it and it does need repeating. Anyone that raids here needs their head examined by professionals.

[TheDuck]

honestly, if ur not gonna support red. you are going to get above posters mentality on blue.

it's to late anyways, red died when velious released due to low pop, and everyone from red came to blue, and infected everyone with the red playstyle/mindset of fuck everyone.


Really there is only reds failure to blame for the failure of blue. Blue used to actually be a magical place where people pretended to be elvish twilight characters in piece without being harassed. Now that red has imploded the elvish twlighlight roleplayers in the EC tunnel keep getting called "fag" atleast once a minute by some red player turned blue.

honestly i think what would draw the hate out of the blue server would be to draw all the red back to the red server. maybe do a reset on red and it would force all off the assholes who migrates back to red.

[TripleLegit]

How does one level a melee on red with a pop of 50

[TheDuck]

How does one level a melee on red with a pop of 50

level a caster first, make friends. get in a guild, level up your melee once you actually are in a position to.


its generally how red works anyways, u put ur time in as a support class and then when you have put your time in, you can play the melee as someone new takes your spot as support.

[fadetree]

Nothing will change unless and until the devs/CS staff start really putting some banhammer time in on a regular basis. They should start a recruitment effort for CS staff with the kind of power the staff had during live. But, that's very unlikely, and the flood of salty tears that would result would be immense.

So, yeah the end game raid scene seems to suck, but below that blue seems pretty ok to me. People can get to places like sky and hate and fear and HoT pretty well. Maybe the very top end targets are hard to get, but oh well, there's still a lot to do and a lot of fun to be had.

[Xzavie]

Just keep killing hill giants. Eventually you will be able to pay for "loot rights".

[RedXIII]

If you really wanna know, leave this forum and go play the game and talk to people ingame... sadly this forum is full of butthurt QQ'ing fagots who dont even play here anymore but feel like they need to keep shitting up the forums to make their lifes better.

To me, p99 raid scene is great. Could be better for sure but, its the best it ever been. Friendly with casuals since the new rules and etc. Sirken and Braknar been doing a amazing job in my opinion at keeping the nerds happy.

If you wanna ask and chat more, my ingame name is on my sig. I hope you enjoy p99 raiding and have fun while doing it, remember its a game not a job.

[Raev]

Since there have almost always been 5-10 guilds on the server capable of clearing the content, the actual world provides relatively little challenge and the primary issue is 'competing' against other players, which the staff prefer to establishing a GM rotation as they all come from PVP/hardcore backgrounds. The server has a long and sordid history of retarded methods by which Project 1999 addicts have 'competed':

14 players on a spawn point would let you claim a dragon; Nagafen and Vox were poopsocked for literally days and people would constantly 'AFK check' to try and get fewer than 14 responses
In response to this the staff implemented 96 hour variance in Kunark; players would spend hundreds of hours per week hitting track trying to see when the dragons would spawn, and then batphone 24/7 to kill them
Eventually the players promised not to poopsock as long as the staff would reduce variance to 16 hours. This lasted about one cycle and then we entered the jav spamming era, where players would sit on the spawn point of mobs hammering multiple keys in an attempt to get an FTE message and then run back to the zone
The next iteration was limiting trackers to two players and making tracker FTEs illegal. So everyone parked magicians with Call of the Hero on these spawn points and the first to cast COTH usually won as long as their poopsocker didn't die
Taken (now Awakened) took this to the next level by 'coh ducking', their mages would cast COTH and duck before it landed to summon their player first.
Eventually IB/TMO got tired of this and implemented footraces from the zone in which lasted a while until everyone went back to jav spamming with gate potions in NTOV
The most recent incarnation requires foot races and guilds who get FTE messages get 1 hour to mobilize and kill a target. In order to get that 1 second lead, players either bind sight or screen share the empty spawn point of a target.

Players that are willing to stare at a wall for 0-16 hours waiting for a raid target to spawn are of course highly immersed, and thus there is a huge amount of rule lawyering in gray areas, like 'If a guild wipes, when can the next FTE be established and by who' and 'Oh god, you got off the line first'. In addition, the server does not log encounters where an NPC does not die. So you can wild west style train other guilds and the GMs have no means to verify who started the train unless Sirken is online and can DT a mob (understandably rare). Fingerz of Awakened for example dropped half the zone on CSG/Rustle when we were preparing to engage Vulak and they have received no punishment whatsoever.

There are really only about 30-40 players who engage in all of this; the rest of the guild is warm bodies who log in when a batphone is sent out. Since everything is pulled to the zone in exploiting non-classic mechanics, this only requires maybe 20 minutes per batphone, so not a huge investment of time per week. However, it does require you to be available most days of the week and since the racer/poopsocker types get huge DKP incentives you'll progress very slowly.

TLDR: the raid scene on this server is pure aids. If you want to raid, go play on Phinigel where they have instances. Which is sad, because Project 1999 is an amazing recreation of classic EQ in so many ways.

[Whirled]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261345

Give this a nice read and tell me the raid scene is doing great.
Here's some more light reading while one fills a sock.
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257090

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259666

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260469

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259153

Anyone telling you that the raid scene is great is either on drugs, doesn't work for a living or both. You can easily find multitudes of other threads of adults screaming at each other for their pixels. More importantly, you be your own judge. because no one here will give you anything but their own biased opinion. Even mine; since I don't GAF about raiding. I just like to read some of the retardation that goes on to pass time while on breaks & laugh at the fact that grown adults fight over such petty things.

[Ikon]

Since there have almost always been 5-10 guilds on the server capable of clearing the content, the actual world provides relatively little challenge and the primary issue is 'competing' against other players, which the staff prefer to establishing a GM rotation as they all come from PVP/hardcore backgrounds. The server has a long and sordid history of retarded methods by which Project 1999 addicts have 'competed':

14 players on a spawn point would let you claim a dragon; Nagafen and Vox were poopsocked for literally days and people would constantly 'AFK check' to try and get fewer than 14 responses
In response to this the staff implemented 96 hour variance in Kunark; players would spend hundreds of hours per week hitting track trying to see when the dragons would spawn, and then batphone 24/7 to kill them
Eventually the players promised not to poopsock as long as the staff would reduce variance to 16 hours. This lasted about one cycle and then we entered the jav spamming era, where players would sit on the spawn point of mobs hammering multiple keys in an attempt to get an FTE message and then run back to the zone
The next iteration was limiting trackers to two players and making tracker FTEs illegal. So everyone parked magicians with Call of the Hero on these spawn points and the first to cast COTH usually won as long as their poopsocker didn't die
Taken (now Awakened) took this to the next level by 'coh ducking', their mages would cast COTH and duck before it landed to summon their player first.
Eventually IB/TMO got tired of this and implemented footraces from the zone in which lasted a while until everyone went back to jav spamming with gate potions in NTOV
The most recent incarnation requires foot races and guilds who get FTE messages get 1 hour to mobilize and kill a target. In order to get that 1 second lead, players either bind sight or screen share the empty spawn point of a target.

Players that are willing to stare at a wall for 0-16 hours waiting for a raid target to spawn are of course highly immersed, and thus there is a huge amount of rule lawyering in gray areas, like 'If a guild wipes, when can the next FTE be established and by who' and 'Oh god, you got off the line first'. In addition, the server does not log encounters where an NPC does not die. So you can wild west style train other guilds and the GMs have no means to verify who started the train unless Sirken is online and can DT a mob (understandably rare). Fingerz of Awakened for example dropped half the zone on CSG/Rustle when we were preparing to engage Vulak and they have received no punishment whatsoever.

There are really only about 30-40 players who engage in all of this; the rest of the guild is warm bodies who log in when a batphone is sent out. Since everything is pulled to the zone in exploiting non-classic mechanics, this only requires maybe 20 minutes per batphone, so not a huge investment of time per week. However, it does require you to be available most days of the week and since the racer/poopsocker types get huge DKP incentives you'll progress very slowly.

TLDR: the raid scene on this server is pure aids. If you want to raid, go play on Phinigel where they have instances. Which is sad, because Project 1999 is an amazing recreation of classic EQ in so many ways.
And strangely all this could be avoided by having GM enforced rotations - almost no staff involvement necessary. You put your name on the list, it gets posted on forums. If a guild is not up for the mob / zone and they take it they can't really argue it was a mistake...

So why is this not happening? Rotations and lists were classic... makes you wonder what's going on.

[TheDuck]

i dont think anyone realizes this server is designed to look like classic, with non classic functions, in order to serve a "purpose". atleast my 5 years of being here has atleast shown me that.

the big plat lobbyists on this server have corrupted the game and turned it into a plat farm on all levels, from jboot to raid loot. like that guy said


Just keep killing hill giants. Eventually you will be able to pay for "loot rights".


edit: to the guy saying people claiming this are just salty. no... go ahead and play the game from level 1, with no help. watch how many times you have to "buy" your way into a group, or "buy" your item. by farming pure plat since they are abusing the PNP/list rules to dominate that spawn. some people have been on the same spawn for years. go ahead and try to claim that there arn't. then we will know what side you are on. seriously. anyone who comes to this forum and tells you different that you wont be using "plat" to buy your way to endgame is a liar and in on it. If people knew the truth they would never begin here.

[Vallanor]

TLDR: the raid scene on this server is pure aids. If you want to raid, go play on Phinigel where they have instances. Which is sad, because Project 1999 is an amazing recreation of classic EQ in so many ways.

This is pretty much 100% correct. There are a few things like Vindi, Velketor and some of Kunark that aren't really poopsocked, but outside those exceptions, the raid scene is total garbage.

Play P99 for the road to 60. Leveling is still really fun, there are abundant groups with mostly friendly people, and the amount of content pre-60 is enough to keep you busy for a really long time. Just don't expect the fun to continue at the end game.

[Whirled]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226227&highlight=Tranquil+staff+sickens
OP, please tell us your thoughts on this thread.

This one is still going too:
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2432049#post2432049

Who needs a pixel epic when you can have epic laughs?

[Jimjam]

What if....there was a new server with max level of 30?.....and no level minimums on stuff.

No root, no mez, no slow, no charm against high end stuff...

The game would never become easy. You could kill dragons, but it would be HARD.

There would be legendary raids where the server came together and tried to invade plane of hate.

Level 39 cap, Faydwer only. I'd like this.

[Jimjam]

How does one level a melee on red with a pop of 50

Solo Najena 10-35, sol A to 39 then solb from 40. Did it on a half elf warrior in Raw hide, using combine weapons most of the way too.

Bandage in combat trick goes a long way.

Dunno if possible with a rogue though. I guess you just gotta form a crew before you come over.

[SirAlvarex]

And strangely all this could be avoided by having GM enforced rotations - almost no staff involvement necessary. You put your name on the list, it gets posted on forums. If a guild is not up for the mob / zone and they take it they can't really argue it was a mistake...

So why is this not happening? Rotations and lists were classic... makes you wonder what's going on.

When I stopped playing 2 years ago there was some semblance rotations between guilds. What happened to that? I remember us having a "shot" at a raid target every like 4th spawn or something.

[Dreenk317]

When I stopped playing 2 years ago there was some semblance rotations between guilds. What happened to that? I remember us having a "shot" at a raid target every like 4th spawn or something.

I took a long break, when I came back the rotation system was gone. I heard, and am stressing heard as I've not looked into it. That Chest and BDA decided to not follow the rotation anymore and began just camping raid mobs and getting FTE, since the rotation system, as far as I knew was setup by the players, it had no GM enforcement and other guilds were forced to began racing for mobs as well or lose out to BDA every time.

Again, that's just what I heard.

[Ravager]

I took a long break, when I came back the rotation system was gone. I heard, and am stressing heard as I've not looked into it. That Chest and BDA decided to not follow the rotation anymore and began just camping raid mobs and getting FTE, since the rotation system, as far as I knew was setup by the players, it had no GM enforcement and other guilds were forced to began racing for mobs as well or lose out to BDA every time.

Again, that's just what I heard.
The Swish spin did its job then.

The class system was hard-coded into the server, the only 'official' rotation was between class C and class R guilds. If you were class C you could only kill class C mobs and FFA mobs. Class R guilds could only kill Class R mobs and ffa mobs, or they would become class C. Class R guilds had lockouts. If they killed an R mob, they could not kill another R mob for 2 more R cycles, which was effectively 9 weeks later. Class C had no such lockouts.

If a mob was left up for 6 hours in either class, it would go FFA.

The player agreement was with splitting up those R mobs between multiple guilds. You could guess that having a dozen guilds rotating every 3rd spawn made things contentious about who should be allowed into the rotation and the conditions they needed to meet to stay in the rotation (very important because of the 6 hour rule and so few mobs to rotate in the first place -- if a guild in the rotation couldn't kill their mob, it would go ffa and quite likely to a C guild).

Despite what Swish would have you believe, BDA was not the only guild unhappy with the player made rotation, it was just that BDA was the guild leading the negotiations for change. That's the short of it. I won't get into the politics of it since there's years of RnF you can read up on to get everyone's side of it, just put Swish on ignore if you want to see the facts from both sides of the argument.

Edit: The C/R/F coding was removed with the launch of Velious, presumably because more mobs meant more guilds would have more chances without the need to rotate anything. We can see how that's working out...

[Nuggie]

you cant truly appreciate how far the server has come from the IB/TMO/VD days unless you were there. We were in the Dark Ages. We've moved on and are now in the Enlightenment. I don't expect the raid scene to progress past where are are currently until the population is back down around 500 at peak and there is only enough people who want to raid to satisfy the needs of 1 guild.

All that said. Raiding on P99 Blue sucks. It's a huge time investment compared to most games, and most iterations of this game. Now that there isnt enough of a population on red for pvp, raiding red might be the most authentic version of PvE EQ you will find. I'm just not willing to start over.

[SirAlvarex]

For those saying the current raid scene doesn't replicate classic -- when this has been brought up in the past the returned argument is that this raid scene *does* emulate classic. It's just it emulates the servers that had the "best" raiding guilds who were always the first to complete content.

For example on Tunare EC tunnel was a wasteland -- we did all our trading in Greater Faydark (GFay). There also was, to my recollection, a rotation for raid targets amongst the top guilds. But that wasn't true for all servers and some of them were reported to be very cutthroat. P99 is emulating that cutthroat server because the effort to make it "nicer" would be fairly immense.

[Ravager]

u got 2 choices here folks.

choice 1: read all the above garbage.

choice 2: ignore garbage and accept the common belief that bda destroyed rotation

i'm not saying he's wrong, but is it right to ask people to cultivate a finer understanding of what happened on p99 elf box political raid dramas? i'd rather have a scapegoat
Fair enough.

Incidentally, http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261345 is one of BDA's plots too.

[Ivory]

Level 39 cap, Faydwer only. I'd like this.

39 works.

The entire world! Velious also! ((Though ideally is it would be progression))

There is a lot of really nice equipment out there then that people could get to still compete against high level monsters....but the challenge level is WAY higher.

So no more single shaman killing a raid monster like lodi or a guild finding all the content in the game so trivial that they clear PoF, then ToV, then a handful of dragons all in an afternoon....

With a lower level cap, suddenly simple stuff like camping a fungi tunic becomes a raid encounter on the level of killing a dragon or doing an epic today. There would still be nice equipment, just it wouldn't be camped by a single bored necro.

Tactics would also have to change drastically....more reliance on pet classes (disposable tanks) and unconventional stuff (like hate-kiting to kill stuff, or using more kiters to crowd control since hard CC wouldn't work anymore....or using "lesser pet classes" to crowd control, like a couple shamans and their pets fighting something on the side while the main force fights the other stuff).

Oh it would be so good!! The game would actually be a challenge again! Instead of mindless exp grinds and mindless poopsocking raid targets :P

[Ravager]

Probably not. The cheesy tactics to kill things would just drop down to level 50ish mobs and most of it would just be undoable since the mobs would be regenning faster than the players can hurt them.

Classic EQ is just a poorly designed game, but nobody wants to admit it. The only way to balance things is to actually balance them, which means nerfs across the board, finetune the content and add custom content, but that's not the aim of this project.

[Swish]

u got 2 choices here folks.

choice 1: read all the above garbage.

choice 2: ignore garbage and accept the common belief that bda destroyed rotation

i'm not saying he's wrong, but is it right to ask people to cultivate a finer understanding of what happened on p99 elf box political raid dramas? i'd rather have a scapegoat

Are you arguing that BDA didn't dissolve the rotation? That they didn't just want more fenced off Class R mobs for themselves..., while trying to blame the rotation collapse on Divinity? Interesting.

"where are they now" tho? :rolleyes:

[Ravager]

So easy to wind Swish up.

[Swish]

So easy to wind Swish up.

This is the usual retort when facts about BDA are posted.

I hear the remainers who didn't go to Phinny are just a token leveling guild pretty much these days...was grouped with a 40s BDA shaman last night who said he was applying elsewhere to raid.

Mind you, what else is new since Velious hit and the guild couldn't compete? Off they go :o

[Ravager]

Watch as he piles on. He can't resist.

[jakerees]

Seems like you can't resist either...

[fastboy21]

The basic "problem" is that classic raiding on live was horrible. The game lent itself to spawn camping by entire guilds (affectionately later called "poop socking" -- sounds pleasant), racing, kill stealing, training, bottle-necking progression (affectionately called "cock blocking" --again, sounds pleasant, right?) etc.

Live EQ never solved these problems until end-game PoP (INSTANCED POTIME). On **some servers** the competing guilds cooperated and entered into their own agreements because it was mutually beneficial, but the game mechanics and CS teams never solved them. In the end, it was only fixed by designing content that was hard to bottleneck or was actually instanced.

So...the "problem" here is that the server did what it was designed to do. The state of raiding on P99 is a FEATURE intentionally replicated and implemented by the designers.

There was an era in the server history where I thought the dev team had changed their philosophy on this. For those of you who weren't here yet, Rogean shut down all raiding for all guilds. He did this until they agreed to cooperate in a raiding system. The result was the class R and class C system. It wasn't a perfect system, but it was a milestone in p99's history. The commitment to the paradigm shift that caused raid reform here seems to have waned in recent times on the server.

Maybe the team decided on a change of heart and went back to their original design philosophy?

Maybe the team decided that enforcement was impossible with given resources and they gave up on it?

Personally, I think they were on the right road and they got off of it (for whatever reason), but that's just opinion. The current state of the server is what it is now...and I don't imagine it changing much. The one exception is that I hope they use p99 to beta test the systems they will hopefully implement on the reboot iteration of p99 whenever that happens.

[Ravager]

There was an era in the server history where I thought the dev team had changed their philosophy on this. For those of you who weren't here yet, Rogean shut down all raiding for all guilds. He did this until they agreed to cooperate in a raiding system. The result was the class R and class C system. It wasn't a perfect system, but it was a milestone in p99's history. The commitment to the paradigm shift that caused raid reform here seems to have waned in recent times on the server.
True, except the players made no agreement to cooperate and that was the whole problem. The result of the class R and class C was 100% Rogean and hard coded into the server. It wasn't perfect, but it was something. C/R/FFA may as well be re-implemented at this point since there is no Sleeper anymore and arguably shittier raid conditions than back when it was first introduced.

[fastboy21]

It depends what you mean by "hard coded". There was no mechanic that actually stopped guilds from defecting on the agreement (intentionally or on-purpose), which to me means not hard coded. GMs had to swoop in on a case by case basis after events had unfolded and make a ruling. It was entirely enforced by the CS people and not by the actual mechanics of the game.

AFAIK, the major guilds did, in fact, agree to this system before Rogean began spawning raid bosses again.

The point I was making is that, for whatever reasons, Rogean pre-velious decided to address what he thought were issues with the server's raiding system. It wasn't perfect, but it did (at least imo) work to bring some significantly positive change to the raiding scene on p99 for several months.

That desire to reform raiding on p99 has since apparently diminished. Why the reverse in their thoughts? Perhaps it was only inspired by the desire to launch velious the right way, perhaps Rogean had a change of mind, or perhaps the server staff simply can't enforce the system how they would like with their given resources and are settling atm for what they can do.

[Maciver]

There was a lot of rotations on my server, especially for epic and mid level raiding content. End game was whoever mustered the force required first. Shady activity was always met with GM interaction.

We raced for AoW a lot. One time the opposing guild was training us and eating all mod rods. They were met with GM death touches and eventually the GM summoned both guild leaders to Qeynos catacombs and forced resolution talks lol.

In the end it seemed pretty clear cut. Who ever had the force in zone to kill and engage first had claim. The GM would enforce that. If you wiped the other guild was free to engage. There was a lot of leap frogging at that point. Several guilds en mass moving from dragon to dragon in ntov. You got what you got. Mid level casual guilds had east tov on rotation.

That said, some guilds did not agree with rotations and there was nothing GM's would do if someone went out of turn. It was all player monitored.

I haven't experienced it here, but i enjoyed the spirit of it on live in this era. I always thought instancing was the lamest idea ever, took a lot away from the world imo.

[Ikon]

The basic "problem" is that classic raiding on live was horrible. The game lent itself to spawn camping by entire guilds (affectionately later called "poop socking" -- sounds pleasant), racing, kill stealing, training, bottle-necking progression (affectionately called "cock blocking" --again, sounds pleasant, right?) etc.

Live EQ never solved these problems until end-game PoP (INSTANCED POTIME). On **some servers** the competing guilds cooperated and entered into their own agreements because it was mutually beneficial, but the game mechanics and CS teams never solved them. In the end, it was only fixed by designing content that was hard to bottleneck or was actually instanced.

So...the "problem" here is that the server did what it was designed to do. The state of raiding on P99 is a FEATURE intentionally replicated and implemented by the designers.

I've already provided you with time relevant links from both Gordon Wrinn and time relevant links from multiple forums, multiple servers and multiple posters (I believe in excess of 64 individuals) that prove what your saying is bullshit.

As Gordon posted, the system was not perfect however it was implemented because guilds were permacamping spawns and in some cases entire zones and it did to a large extent solve the issue, forcing guilds to enter into rotations rather than individuals being banned or guild disbanded for breaching the classic PnP.

Nice try at misinforming the community here..

[Ravager]

AFAIK, the major guilds did, in fact, agree to this system before Rogean began spawning raid bosses again.
Nah, they never agreed to it. There was some convoluted player made plan that every guild but TMO was trying to put in place, but TMO never came to negotiate in good faith. What Rogean came up with was nothing like any of the player made arrangements. I remember, because there was a great deal of aggravation for wasted time trying to hammer out a deal.

Then, Zeelot threw a big hissyfit and disbanded the guild.

[fastboy21]

I've already provided you with time relevant links from both Gordon Wrinn and time relevant links from multiple forums, multiple servers and multiple posters (I believe in excess of 64 individuals) that prove what your saying is bullshit.

As Gordon posted, the system was not perfect however it was implemented because guilds were permacamping spawns and in some cases entire zones and it did to a large extent solve the issue, forcing guilds to enter into rotations rather than individuals being banned or guild disbanded for breaching the classic PnP.

Nice try at misinforming the community here..

Ikon,

I've tried at least three times in the last week to dialogue with in several threads. Each and every time you've resorted to personal attacks instead. I'll try again.

Attempting to solve the problem on live and actually solving it are not the same thing. I recall all the hardships of EQ persisting on my live server (Xev--split from Povar---, which was relatively calm compared to others that my friends played on) all the way until instancing entered the game. We fought each other at each every turn for Emp kills in Luclin. For fought each other for God bottlenecks in PoP. The bitter and hostel play styles survived all attempts at player agreements and GM involvement until they actually changed the mechanics of the game (primarily adding instancing).

[fastboy21]

Nah, they never agreed to it. There was some convoluted player made plan that every guild but TMO was trying to put in place, but TMO never came to negotiate in good faith. What Rogean came up with was nothing like any of the player made arrangements. I remember, because there was a great deal of aggravation for wasted time trying to hammer out a deal.

Then, Zeelot threw a big hissyfit and disbanded the guild.

By "agree" I guess what I mean is that they continued to play here after they were told they could either adhere to it or not play here. GM enforcement following that "agreement" was strong and direct.

My whole point back to my first post is that the server staff, for some reason, decided to disengage in that level of enforced game play. I've never really heard a great explanation for why Rogean didn't just revert to pulling the plug on bosses again when the rotation gave out.

The situation now IMO is at least as bad as it was before Rogean pulled the plug the first time. Why not again?

[Ravager]

By "agree" I guess what I mean is that they continued to play here after they were told they could either adhere to it or not play here. GM enforcement following that "agreement" was strong and direct.

My whole point back to my first post is that the server staff, for some reason, decided to disengage in that level of enforced game play. I've never really heard a great explanation for why Rogean didn't just revert to pulling the plug on bosses again when the rotation gave out.

The situation now IMO is at least as bad as it was before Rogean pulled the plug the first time. Why not again?
The rotation didn't give out. The player made rotation of the R mobs had nothing to do with the C/R/FFA rotation and was a separate thing. When the R rotation collapsed C/R/FFA rotation was still a thing and enforced. The staff decided to remove C/R/FFA for the Velious launch, presumably because there'd be enough mobs for everyone. But that is clearly not the case.

I agree that it's a great time to reinstate C/R/FFA or some form of it before P99 makes the news for game related suicides/accidental deaths.

[Ravager]

They're better off.

[fastboy21]

This is a pretty good beginners guide. Just keep it up boys and we shouldn't have any new folks trying to raid

I wouldn't "hard core" raid here again unless there was some (en)forced server system in place. It doesn't even have anything to do with getting pixels or fairness...current raiding just isn't fun for me in its current state.

I have more fun by far on this server doing non-raid content than raiding. Maybe that is the lesson of classic EQ, maybe its just a p99 lesson.

New folks should play how they want, and should experience p99 for themselves before they take anyone's word for anything on the forums. I imagine that there are at least SOME folks that enjoy raiding on p99...

[fugazi]

Another problem of the p99 raid scene is the zerg mentality. Even top guilds bring in well over 60 people to places like Fear, ToV and whatever you have. 70 to 90 man raids seem to be the norm .. which just instantly makes me want to alt tab to something more fun.

I can see why guilds do it. DKP enforces this crap. Losing a mob because stuff is way overcontested. Gearflation, with anyone past 50 being able to rock epics, dragon haste and a full set of thurg armor or better. The fact lvl60 has been the cap for ages and Chardok/aoe leveling was nerfed way too late.

Getting together 50 or more lvl60s on live during Kunark and Velious was a monumental task that usually only the uber guilds, with their magical allure and pull, could manage.

[Ravager]

The zerg comes from a glut of level 60's with nothing else to do to advance. The server is way too top heavy and will need some kind of non-classic intervention to fix it.

It'd be neat if when you got to max level 60 you'd get the option to ding Level 1 and get something you couldn't get otherwise, like AA or no drop versions of legacy items or out of era items. Maybe each time you get to max 60 it gets you a point and you spend the points on the stuff. I bet there's more than a few people who would re-level to max 60 from level 1 five times for a guise. Hell, some might even do it as an alternative path to getting an Epic.

[fugazi]

Did you play the c-rpg mod for mount and blade? Because they used a heirloom points system to encourage people to reset to lvl1 after maxing out.

[Maciver]

Did you play the c-rpg mod for mount and blade? Because they used a heirloom points system to encourage people to reset to lvl1 after maxing out.

I played the shit out of that, that would be neat if implemented right.

[fadetree]

At this point I'd be ok with instancing 2 or 3 copies of a lot of the top end raid zones. I know it's horrible and did a ton of damage to the live game, but this is a different situation. I don't know how easy or hard it would be for the devs here to do.

[Ikon]

Ikon,

I've tried at least three times in the last week to dialogue with in several threads. Each and every time you've resorted to personal attacks instead. I'll try again.

Attempting to solve the problem on live and actually solving it are not the same thing. I recall all the hardships of EQ persisting on my live server (Xev--split from Povar---, which was relatively calm compared to others that my friends played on) all the way until instancing entered the game. We fought each other at each every turn for Emp kills in Luclin. For fought each other for God bottlenecks in PoP. The bitter and hostel play styles survived all attempts at player agreements and GM involvement until they actually changed the mechanics of the game (primarily adding instancing).
I don't personally attack people. Stop trying to be a victim.

Fact is your opinion or your 17 year old memory of EQ means sweet fark all.

Fact is the evidence I linked showed that the classic system that Verant implemented worked - as Gordon said, not perfectly, but it worked. That was verified by the comments in the threads I linked of people complaining about having to "share" and how awful it was.

"aweful" being completely subjective, as the comments mentioned the reason they didn't petition often because of the classic PnP policy is because there were lists and rotations.

There were lists and rotations because of the classic PnP policy.

That's not my 17 year old memory that's from the fingers of people from 2001 who experienced it and wrote about it in 2001. Would you like me to link it again?

Edit: Before you start arguing about me personally attacking you - A personal attack is if I said Ikon you're a farkhead. A personal attack is not if I said Ikon you're acting like a farkhead. The first is attacking the person, the second is a criticism of the persons behavior. IMO you are acting like a schoolkid. You are demanding that your personal opinion, based on your individual experience on your particular server(s) be considered evidence of what happened on every server 17 years ago. You believe that that should override contemporaneous posts of the time by Everquest developers and people who played on various servers. That is a pretty stupid expectation.

[nyclin]

effortpost deflecting the fact that eq is just a badly designed game

exposition of theory about raid scene

fin.

[Ikon]

effortpost deflecting the fact that eq is just a badly designed game

exposition of theory about raid scene

fin.
Or humans are badly designed creatures. Everyone wants maximum results with as little effort as possible. Everyone demands a share of 10% of the content while ignoring 90% of the content in the game.

EQ is a perfectly designed game - humans are just shit at playing it.

[Ravager]

Everyone wants maximum results with as little effort as possible.
I believe this statement is untrue and point you to RnF and Raid Discussion forums for evidence against.

[nyclin]

yes humans are clearly the problem here and not everquest, a game designed by humans

[Swish]

Or humans are badly designed creatures. Everyone wants maximum results with as little effort as possible. Everyone demands a share of 10% of the content while ignoring 90% of the content in the game.

EQ is a perfectly designed game - humans are just shit at playing it.

Rotations are made to be broken, amirite?

[Ikon]

yes humans are clearly the problem here and not everquest, a game designed by humans
Well yeah - humans are the problem clearly. The developers were doing something that hadn't been done before on this scale. The internet was quite new. Online gaming was quite new.

They designed EQ with the mindset that people would want to "play" it. I don't think they expected that some peoples lives were so miserable and broken they'd want to live EQ.

Shit like PL, poopsocking, RMTíng, minimum 30 hours per week, DLP's, people suing others over in game assets, EQ causing marriage break downs, suicides...

Its a very well designed game, better than the instanced garbage that came later. Its just not well designed for mental cases who ended up being the leaders and followers of the uber guilds.

Rotations are made to be broken, amirite?
Apparently so.

[nyclin]

Its a very well designed game, better than the instanced garbage that came later. Its just not well designed for mental cases who ended up being the leaders and followers of the uber guilds.

"everquest is a perfectly designed game, except for these huge flaws in its design"

i'm sorry that there are people who play this badly designed game differently than you, this apparently causes you much grief

[Ikon]

"everquest is a perfectly designed game, except for these huge flaws in its design"

i'm sorry that there are people who play this badly designed game differently than you, this apparently causes you much grief
It doesn't cause me grief at all - grief is something that only applies to very serious real life circumstances. No place for that emotion in a computer game.

[AenorVZ]

red died when velious released due to low pop

And low t.

[Zekayy]

I am in Aftermath and dont even raid its fun you all should try it sometime

[fastboy21]

I don't personally attack people. Stop trying to be a victim.

Fact is your opinion or your 17 year old memory of EQ means sweet fark all.

Fact is the evidence I linked showed that the classic system that Verant implemented worked - as Gordon said, not perfectly, but it worked. That was verified by the comments in the threads I linked of people complaining about having to "share" and how awful it was.

"aweful" being completely subjective, as the comments mentioned the reason they didn't petition often because of the classic PnP policy is because there were lists and rotations.

There were lists and rotations because of the classic PnP policy.

That's not my 17 year old memory that's from the fingers of people from 2001 who experienced it and wrote about it in 2001. Would you like me to link it again?

Edit: Before you start arguing about me personally attacking you - A personal attack is if I said Ikon you're a farkhead. A personal attack is not if I said Ikon you're acting like a farkhead. The first is attacking the person, the second is a criticism of the persons behavior. IMO you are acting like a schoolkid. You are demanding that your personal opinion, based on your individual experience on your particular server(s) be considered evidence of what happened on every server 17 years ago. You believe that that should override contemporaneous posts of the time by Everquest developers and people who played on various servers. That is a pretty stupid expectation.

Ikon,

If you don't know how calling my opinion "bullshit" or accusing me of "intentionally misleading" people is a personal attack then I don't know what to say to you.

As you've proved in multiple threads, you are just not worth engaging. Everyone who disagrees with "your facts" is relying solely on "their opinion". It isn't a discussion because you are already 100% right. You go out of your way to be unnecessarily rude and dismissive of others.

I honestly can't tell whether you are just like this or you're an intentional troll. The last time I engaged with you I received several PMs from folks just telling me not to even try to engage you. I have to say they were right, and it won't happen again.

It is ironic that you posted in another thread how you don't allow your 13 year old child to play p99 because you find the forums too toxic.

[Ikon]

Ikon,

If you don't know how calling my opinion "bullshit" or accusing me of "intentionally misleading" people is a personal attack then I don't know what to say to you.

As you've proved in multiple threads, you are just not worth engaging. Everyone who disagrees with "your facts" is relying solely on "their opinion". It isn't a discussion because you are already 100% right. You go out of your way to be unnecessarily rude and dismissive of others.

I honestly can't tell whether you are just like this or you're an intentional troll. The last time I engaged with you I received several PMs from folks just telling me not to even try to engage you. I have to say they were right, and it won't happen again.

It is ironic that you posted in another thread how you don't allow your 13 year old child to play p99 because you find the forums too toxic.
You're deliberately attempting to obfuscate the fact that you are relying purely on your own opinion.

Calling your opinion bullshit is not a personal attack against you since your opinion is not you, your opinion is something you hold, its a belief without evidence. Accusing you of intentionally misleading people is not a personal attack because its a criticism of something I believe you are doing, rather than you personally - hence the word "personal" in "personal attack".

This is pretty basic stuff :cool:

[Xzavie]

P99 raid scene is like an unregulated market. The richest get richer and richer while the poor struggle for scraps.

Instanced raiding is the socialism that evens the playing field a bit.

Anyone that likes "raiding' here, great, keep doing your thing. Everyone bitching should try a new game. I like EQ phinigel, but there are others.

Many of you would really like Phinny if you gave it a shot.

There is a reason all of the new games have instanced raiding.

Happy New Year!

[Ikon]

P99 raid scene is like an unregulated market. The richest get richer and richer while the poor struggle for scraps.

Instanced raiding is the socialism that evens the playing field a bit.

Anyone that likes "raiding' here, great, keep doing your thing. Everyone bitching should try a new game. I like EQ phinigel, but there are others.

Many of you would really like Phinny if you gave it a shot.

There is a reason all of the new games have instanced raiding.

Happy New Year!
Yeah but it doesn't take a genius to figure out most of the people on this server like this server because we liked classic. The raiding here is not classic.

It would be more appropriate for the people that like non-classic raiding to feck off and go elsewhere rather than the people who are here for a classic experience to feck off.

https://eatingbees.wordpress.com/the-wayback-machine/try-being-a-guide-you/

Play nice policies. My personal feelings aside (lay off the wacky weed, Verant), I get to enforce it. Do you know how much I hate you at the end of a long shift? What kind of asshole thinks the king room in Lower Guk can be shared by TWO GROUPS OF 12? Conversely, what kind of screaming cocksucker thinks it’s okay to camp the king room for 36 hours? I think you both suck. The only people lamer than you are the ones that PNP over derv camps in North Ro and then act surprised when I send one group to the DESERTED derv camp a 30 second walk away.

[fastboy21]

You're deliberately attempting to obfuscate the fact that you are relying purely on your own opinion.

Calling your opinion bullshit is not a personal attack against you since your opinion is not you, your opinion is something you hold, its a belief without evidence. Accusing you of intentionally misleading people is not a personal attack because its a criticism of something I believe you are doing, rather than you personally - hence the word "personal" in "personal attack".

This is pretty basic stuff :cool:

Like I said, if you honestly don't see that calling my post bullshit and my purpose for posting it intentionally misleading is personally offensive, rude, and not a productive part of having a dialogue then I don't know how to make it any clearer for you than it is.

Being rude and using rude language is pretty basic stuff, I agree with you on that.

[fastboy21]

You're deliberately attempting to obfuscate the fact that you are relying purely on your own opinion.


Ikon,

Opinion and personal anecdotal evidence aren't the same thing. Dismissing all anecdotal evidence as useless personal opinion would be a big error.

Saying that I remember playing on live and having a memory how things were isn't GREAT evidence from a scientific point of view, but anecdotal evidence is, in fact, evidence.

Relying on memory for certain details of the game (like say, the two years of my life during luclin and PoP where I remember batphoning and poopsocking to get targets) isn't an opinon. It is anecdotal evidence.

Considering that most people who played on live that I've talked to have that shared anecdotal experience it isn't just mere opinion or one person's anecdotal recollection on the state of the game in PoP before PoTime instancing.

I've never spoken to a single player who doesn't recall the cock-blocking and negative fighting between guilds in PoP. Blocking each other at Rallos Zek was the big one. Lots of guilds were stuck in PoP at Sol Ro tower because they couldn't get into the elemental planes. The content was monopolized for years....just like it was here. It all totally changed when instancing came in.

There isn't anything in the threads you posted or in my anecdotal recollection of events that is contradictory. Devs and GMs did make efforts to improve the game by tinkering with the PNP on multiple occasions and designing new content that opened up the end game, but the bitterness and hostile behavior between end-game raiding guilds continued well into Luclin/PoP and only really ended (i.e. the problem was solved) with the implementation of instancing in PoTime and further expansions.

I don't see why you have such a hard time with that. It isn't just mere opinion. Lots of us were actually there.

[fadetree]

Fastboy, cmon. He found ACTUAL POSTS ON THE INTERNET, and thus cannot be contradicted. If he were to allow that some people might have different memories and that maybe things are not totally black and white, then we'd be all confused. Personally, I had no idea that my memories of the 9 years I spent playing on live were so faulty, and I am just glad he has shown me the truth. And obviously, trying to make fine points about the difference between 'implemented at all' and 'implemented with success' are just silliness. HE FOUND ACTUAL POSTS.

And I think the fact that you don't get that he is not actually saying that 'you ARE an idiot', as opposed to 'you ACT like an idiot' is not a personal attack means you don't understand how language works. For instance, if I were to say that 'Ikon *is* an overbearing pseudo-intellectual that thinks his leet research skills prove things beyond a shadow of a doubt and that no-one else even has a legitimate reason to doubt him', rather than 'Ikon *ACTS* like an overbearing pseudo-intellectual that thinks his leet research skills prove things beyond a shadow of a doubt and that no-one else even has a legitimate reason to doubt him', that one little change would mean I was personally attacking him.

I am now trying to find posts on the internet that claim that the world is flat and lizard people live in the center. Oh look! Here's some -
http://theflatearthsociety.org/home/
Wow they have a whole wiki and tons of research! WHO KNEW. I better get in touch with the physics community and let them know they are all wrong.

[nyclin]

There isn't anything in the threads you posted or in my anecdotal recollection of events that is contradictory. Devs and GMs did make efforts to improve the game by tinkering with the PNP on multiple occasions and designing new content that opened up the end game, but the bitterness and hostile behavior between end-game raiding guilds continued well into Luclin/PoP and only really ended (i.e. the problem was solved) with the implementation of instancing in PoTime and further expansions.

I don't see why you have such a hard time with that. It isn't just mere opinion. Lots of us were actually there.

get the fuck out of here with your reasoned, logical opinions

i found a post on allakhazam from 2001 that says i'm right and you're wrong so go play on phinny

[Ikon]

Fastboy, cmon. He found ACTUAL POSTS ON THE INTERNET, and thus cannot be contradicted. If he were to allow that some people might have different memories and that maybe things are not totally black and white, then we'd be all confused. Personally, I had no idea that my memories of the 9 years I spent playing on live were so faulty, and I am just glad he has shown me the truth. And obviously, trying to make fine points about the difference between 'implemented at all' and 'implemented with success' are just silliness. HE FOUND ACTUAL POSTS.

And I think the fact that you don't get that he is not actually saying that 'you ARE an idiot', as opposed to 'you ACT like an idiot' is not a personal attack means you don't understand how language works. For instance, if I were to say that 'Ikon *is* an overbearing pseudo-intellectual that thinks his leet research skills prove things beyond a shadow of a doubt and that no-one else even has a legitimate reason to doubt him', rather than 'Ikon *ACTS* like an overbearing pseudo-intellectual that thinks his leet research skills prove things beyond a shadow of a doubt and that no-one else even has a legitimate reason to doubt him', that one little change would mean I was personally attacking him.

I am now trying to find posts on the internet that claim that the world is flat and lizard people live in the center. Oh look! Here's some -
http://theflatearthsociety.org/home/
Wow they have a whole wiki and tons of research! WHO KNEW. I better get in touch with the physics community and let them know they are all wrong.
Fadetree:

I can assure you that this will never happen here. It is, sadly, not classic. This server is not about what EQ should have been, it's about what it was.

Why are you here? That 'shitty' coding is the entire point of this. It's about recreating what EQ was, not about how fun you, or any of us, think it is.

Facts are:

Two of the posts I linked were from Gordon Wrinn - Verants official community liason for Everquest and later associate producer of Everquest. Those links were official correspondence between Gordon and the EQ community regarding the PnP.

Another post I linked was from Tweety, a guide that snapped who mentions several times the frustrations with having to enforce the PnP.

The other links are posts from approximately 60+ players on various servers discussing the PnP policy and how it worked, how it sucked, how it wasn't fair - none were saying it wasn't implemented, they were saying the opposite, it was implemented and a number said it worked and the game was better for it.

Now lets compare,

Fadetree and Fastboy vs Gordon Wrinn, A infamous guide from EQ and approximately 64 players from 2000-2001...

Which is more convincing......

:rolleyes:

[fastboy21]

Fadetree:





Fadetree and Fastboy vs Gordon Wrinn, A infamous guide from EQ and approximately 64 players from 2000-2001...

Which is more convincing......

:rolleyes:

What, specifically, do you think I am arguing that is contradicted by his post? (Even if we assume it is all true) I can't think of a single thing I've said that contradicts something in this post you keep bringing up. I've even gone back and read it a couple times just to give you the benefit of the doubt...I don't see it.

[maskedmelon]

There is no classic solution to fixing endgame raiding. If the GMs implement a rotation, then cunning endgame raiders will just form an extensive number of alt guilds with cross platform dkp and log unguided mains/alts for loot as needed. Won't work.

The one everyone should learn from the current raid environment is that more rules create more opportunities for abuse/exploitation.

[Ikon]

There is no classic solution to fixing endgame raiding. If the GMs implement a rotation, then cunning endgame raiders will just form an extensive number of alt guilds with cross platform dkp and log unguided mains/alts for loot as needed. Won't work.

The one everyone should learn from the current raid environment is that more rules create more opportunities for abuse/exploitation.
That's a good point. However it worked on live and was classic. If there was a no-bullshit policy of banning people who attempt to work around things like that then I doubt someone would risk banning to log in and loot an item.

I think the best thing though would be implementing Luclin dungeons without the actual expansion and adding AA's so people would have something to do, oh and turning off MQ. Min / Maxxers love AA's, its an never ending race to nowhere.

[Kushie]

p99 raid scene is something you don't want to be a part of.

[Kushie]

5 years of top heavy kunark + 3 years of platinum account sales (Not RMT, staff and players would never do that on p99) + emulated server with only cringiest of nerds playing rulesquest = Yuck

[Swish]

BDA still bitter about being run off the server it seems. Fires of Heaven, Venerate, Europa, Omni, Azure Guard are all doing content you guys struggled with.

Thanks for continuing to post here, you must miss it :)

[Jorgam]

OP,

The attitude of the raid scene here is pretty much summed up in the way this thread devolved into a shit show. You asked a simple question and these fucks are derailing the thread to prove opinions.

Can you feel the fun being sapped from your soul?

Find some cool people to play with and play as hardcore or casual as you can/like and have fun. These guys will always be here to knock you down whenever you like, both here and in game.