Locking Into a Mob That Was Previously Locked

[Breaken]

As the last thread fizzled out because no one wanted to discuss it, I am bringing the discussion back with actual scenarios that should be addressed.

We are all aware that you can lock into a mob after a raid has wiped to that mob or the hour lock has expired. What about legitimate ways to obtain this new lock?

Sirken wrote, in reply to an old question:

4) the guild has 60 min to engage the raid target. if they wipe, or exceed the 60 min limit on engaging, the raid target then becomes FFA and these footrace rules do not apply.

Scenario:
<Guild A> locks in on Target. <Guild A> pulls Target but wipes or an hour elapses.

1) Target is at his spawn point. Either the hour has expired or <Guild A> wiped and Target has successfully pathed back to his spawn.
Can <Guild B> Call of the Hero a member of their guild near Target's spawn point to tag Target for a new lock?
Can <Guild B> gate a member of their guild near Target's spawn point to tag Target for a new lock?
Can <Guild B> log in a member of their guild near Target's spawn point to tag Target for a new lock?

The referenced quote of Sirken says, these footrace rules do not apply. This would imply these are acceptable, provided you are not violating Tracker FTE. Gating or logging in on top of Target's spawn point in my mind would violate this.

2) Target is pathing back from wiping <Guild A>
Can <Guild C> Call of the Hero a member of their guild into Target's path back to his spawn to tag Target for a new lock?
Can <Guild C> gate a member of their guild into Target's path back to his spawn to tag Target for a new lock?
Can <Guild C> log in a member of their guild into Target's path back to his spawn to tag Target for a new lock?

Again, per the quote, I would guess that as long as Tracker FTE is not obtained, all of this would be an acceptable way to lock in.

I do not see any requirements to obtain subsequent FTEs, as long as your Tracker does not get it. If we could have a civil discussion on this topic, and maybe if Sirken has some thoughts, I believe it would benefit all of us to be on the same page.

[Breaken]

I guess I will be more specific.

On Monday, Rustle wiped to Zlexak. While he was pathing back to his spawn point, Aftermath logged in a mage named Summgenie at PoM cubby. As Zlexak pathed past him, he got an engage message.

http://i.imgur.com/mgqUKVw.jpg

Aftermath decided this was a legitimate FTE.

http://i.imgur.com/qv0AMt9.jpg

When Awakened asked how they obtained the FTE with a level 56 mage, Detoxx replied:

http://i.imgur.com/Kn5LJZc.jpg

Followed by two explanations of how the FTE was obtained.

http://i.imgur.com/fo8S0Ua.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ffc75sc.jpg

Now, he wasn't trained, he logged in and Zlexak was pathing back. My first thought was, how can this be legal? But, I looked through the rules and decided to ask for clarification. I even took your side on the matter. The rules do say footracing is not a thing after a wipe. If this is how Aftermath plans to obtain new FTEs after a wipe, great. I would just like to be on equal footing. If you think this shouldn't happen, great. I have/had no intention of petitioning, I simply want to play using the same rule set.

[phiren]

IMO -- the "after a wipe, the mob is free" is too open to interpretation. We had issues where we had the dragon in camp, and due to other trains, other dragons, we had to zone out from a bad pull and re-set up. I personally wouldn't consider that a wipe, but I can see the other side too.

I think it would be a lot simpler and completely unambiguous if the rules just said (Wipes are removed):
Guild is locked into mob for 60 minutes after legit FTE. After 60 minute timer expires, a new FTE can be achieved by ANY guild (even same guild) who starts racing from the racing line as soon as the 60 minute timer unlocks, and rinse/repeat these rules until mob is dead.

IE:
If AG FTE'd at 12:04:08 server time, racers cannot start running until 13:04:08.

I think that's more in line with what the 'spirit' of the racing is all about, and would make it completely clear to everyone.

It doesn't happen a lot, but when mobs do pass the 60 minute timer, it's always a big mess as to whether you can start running before the 60 minute timer expires .. and apparently whether you can log in a char camped near spawn spot. We don't want to break the rules either in CSG, but we are also a little unclear.

Aftermath's mage at the PoM spot would be no different than CSG/Awakened/Rustle/whoever having a monk FD'd at the 4way, and tag the mob as he pathed back home for the new FTE.

Or you (staff) could say:
If mob A isn't killed within 60 mins, no rules apply on achieving the next FTE, as long as it's at the 60:00:01 mark from the initial FTE

If "wipes" are staying in the rules to free up a mob from the lock , I think the rule should be:
A new FTE cannot be achieved until the mob resets at its' spawn spot. No racing needed. Camp chars underneath the spawn spot if you want... don't care!

I would be fine with any rule TBH, CSG could use some clarity as well !

[Detoxx]

I guess I will be more specific.

On Monday, Rustle wiped to Zlexak. While he was pathing back to his spawn point, Aftermath logged in a mage named Summgenie at PoM cubby. As Zlexak pathed past him, he got an engage message.

http://i.imgur.com/mgqUKVw.jpg

Aftermath decided this was a legitimate FTE.

http://i.imgur.com/qv0AMt9.jpg

When Awakened asked how they obtained the FTE with a level 56 mage, Detoxx replied:

http://i.imgur.com/Kn5LJZc.jpg

Followed by two explanations of how the FTE was obtained.

http://i.imgur.com/fo8S0Ua.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ffc75sc.jpg

Now, he wasn't trained, he logged in and Zlexak was pathing back. My first thought was, how can this be legal? But, I looked through the rules and decided to ask for clarification. I even took your side on the matter. The rules do say footracing is not a thing after a wipe. If this is how Aftermath plans to obtain new FTEs after a wipe, great. I would just like to be on equal footing. If you think this shouldn't happen, great. I have/had no intention of petitioning, I simply want to play using the same rule set.

Get your facts straight. We Re-FTEd Zlex after they wiped when he started pathing from the zone in on Florid. He then pathed back and aggroed our PoM mage getting set up to do the pull.

[11/24/2016 3:57:28 PM] Snackies P99: back on topic, I was thinking the following would make it pretty cut and dry

1) Wiping: Next 1 hour FTE goes to the guild that gets yellow text as a guild wipes, regardless if the mob has left the other guild's camp.

2) The wiping guild cannot claim a new FTE until the engaged dragon has returned to its spawn point. If it is claimed in this manner they have an additional 1 hour.

3) If a guild mistakenly gets FTE as another guild is wiping, they can claim it incidental, which allows the next guild on the FTE list (if applicable) a 1 hour lock if they wish.

Heres the rules we all agreed to, as you can see we abided by them if you refer to #1.

Rustle can confirm this, thank you.

[Breaken]

My original post was vague for a reason. You stating that it didn't happen the way I described it is great, but it doesn't negate the question. Would you agree that cothing someone to PoM cubby to obtain a fresh FTE is a legitimate strategy? The clarification says footrace rules do not apply, however the rule itself doesn't address it at all.

[Ella`Ella]

My original post was vague for a reason. You stating that it didn't happen the way I described it is great, but it doesn't negate the question. Would you agree that cothing someone to PoM cubby to obtain a fresh FTE is a legitimate strategy? The clarification says footrace rules do not apply, however the rule itself doesn't address it at all.

Don't lock yourself into a position, detoxx.

[paroxysmal]

We are still a bit new to the scene here, but I will give my 2 cents on this. I think that the mob should be fte pulled vs the 1 hour lockout once the original guild has wiped. Whichever guild gets it pulled directly to their camp and killed first gets it, no lock ins.

There is a lot of non-classic stuff that goes on on this server and we have way too many raiders for the amount of content available which is creating this unreal amount of contention for these mobs and I think that's really what we should be looking at here @nilbog