Best race for shaman and why?

[Lhancelot]

Is ogre frontal stun immunity superior? If so, why and in what situations?

Is troll or iksar regen superior? If so, how much better is regen in later levels and does a fungi nullify the usefulness of the additional racial regen?

Is the jbb so useful it should be considered when choosing a race for shaman?

I really just want to hear people's opinions on this topic, I am sure it's been discussed in the past but I have not read anything on this topic recently since velious has come out.

[HalasHermit]

Hammered to death too many times to count, play the race you will enjoy looking at for 60 levels + end game. I've yet to find something in this game where I thought racial regen or FSI would have made the difference.

That said, if you must choose one, ogre if you want to "solo high end merbs", regen if you are more group focused.

Good luck!

[Jimjam]

Barbarian can illusion polar bear. I fail to see how there is a contest?

[HalasHermit]

Barbarian can illusion polar bear. I fail to see how there is a contest?

I mean I didn't want to make it so one sided out of the gate....but yeah /thread if you ask me.

[EdTuBrutus]

The traditional view is that the Troll is best choice due to the regen and their ability to use the JBB.

This really is wrong. The JBB is probably the most over-rated item in the game, even a non Torp Shaman can probably do something more useful canni-dancing that 10 seconds. A Torp Shaman can generate a huge chunk of mana and do lot of far more useful things.

So overall, I have to go for Iksar, AC bonus and Regen beat out stun immunity. Harder to get to max Stam but not impossible and we're talking about min-maxing here.

[Gumbo]

The only problem I have with Barbarian Shaman is there isn't that many places to solo if you want to solo without screwing up your faction.

If you an Ogre, Troll or Iskar Shaman then killing guards in Misty Thicket or guards in High Keep will be OK because they don't like you already cause of your race.

I'm still looking for a decent place to solo without it being farmed to death and not to mess up my faction as a Barbarian Shaman.

[Rader]

Barbarian. Show everyone you are pro and don't have to play EZ mode in order to win.

[Trollhide]

Troll. Regen, bash, and sex appeal.

[Mortiis]

Hammered to death too many times to count, play the race you will enjoy looking at for 60 levels + end game.


This is honestly what it boils down to. I personally can't stand playing 'lighty' toons. They can have the best starting stats in the game and it wouldn't matter to me.

Play what you like honestly. I have all three troll classes due to preference.

Added bonus: Inny symbol quest

[jolanar]

Hammered to death too many times to count, play the race you will enjoy looking at for 60 levels + end game.

[Nagash]

Native American make the best shamans.

[icedwards]

Troll. Regen, bash, and sex appeal.

+1

[liveitup1216]

If it can be an Iksar, then Iksar is the best choice.

[Baler]

This is why Iksar is the best shm race endgame.
http://wiki.project1999.com/Robe_of_the_Azure_Sky

85 life
over 300 mana
15 all res

No other shaman race can beat that chest.
(people may debate that vindi chest with it's AC, ~50 more hp, +2 regen is better but it's really frigin tough to beat over 300 mana on 1 slot)
---
If you don't plan on end game raiding then any race with torpor is best.

Iksar or Troll get passive regen which even with torpor helps a ton
Ogre's get front stun which people overrate all the time
Barbs win fashion quest hands down.

---
My opinion is troll.

[Lhancelot]

This is why Iksar is the best shm race endgame.
http://wiki.project1999.com/Robe_of_the_Azure_Sky

85 life
over 300 mana
15 all res

No other shaman race can beat that chest.
(people may debate that vindi chest with it's AC, ~50 more hp, +2 regen is better but it's really frigin tough to beat over 300 mana on 1 slot)
---
If you don't plan on end game raiding then any race with torpor is best.

Iksar or Troll get passive regen which even with torpor helps a ton
Ogre's get front stun which people overrate all the time
Barbs win fashion quest hands down.

---
My opinion is troll.

Yeah, I love the fact iksar can wear that robe. The chances of me ever raiding at a lvl where getting that robe is a possibility is impossible so really I can't add that into the equation.

I like races that can use items that others cannot. That's why I like robe wearing clerics too because of the chance they can wear certain robes whereas dwarves, asslings, etc., cannot.

[Lhancelot]

it's not 300 mana when you are wisdom capped, which is very easily attainable at the endgame

chestplate of vindication is definitely better

But it isn't a robe. 8(

[SirAlvarex]

Folks have been saying frontal stun immunity is overrated so much that it's now back to being underrated. It really does make a huge difference when soloing and you get adds. On a Ogre you just continue casting root knowing it'll go off. With other races you can get bash locked which means Mobs get another 4+ hits on you. Leveling up this can be the difference between life and death.

At higher level XPing you should be good enough to not let mobs hit you nearly as often with the long duration roots. But even then against mobs that summon that stun immunity is awesome.

[Lemonhead]

They still interrupt your spells with bash while in a corner (as of now). Unless this changes after level 35. You still wont get stun locked, which is nice.

If they couldn't interrupt spells, I can see Ogre being hands down best choice.

[SirAlvarex]

Out of all the instances of me being hit I think the failure rate of concentration through the minor push is less than 1%. The number of times I would have died because of getting stun locked are extremely high.

[mickmoranis]

I think what maters most is how do you envision yourself roleplaying while you play.

Ogre - u r cute and halp full.
barb - a rogue, you hang at the taverns, a han solo of norath.
troll - you paint the walls around you in the blood of your foes and think dark thoguhts.
iksar - ur fuckn smart classsssy book smart drifter.

pick which one u fit closest to and there will be least regret

[Matthalas Winterheart]

Native American make the best shamans.

[Gumbo]

Native American make the best shamans.

"It was such a wonderful experience here with the Indian."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMP8lPOKRGI

[Fishbait]

Ogre.

Frontal stun immunity isn't replicated by any other means. It's true any shaman end game played well can do anything any other shaman can do.

People tend to underrate FSI/JBB and overrate regen.

At 60 with regrowth/fungi tunic on you an ogre/barb regenerates at 34 hp a tick, troll/iksar counterparts at 42 a tick(standing). When you throw torpor into the equation the percent benefit of that 8 hp really does become minuscule but maybe some people prefer it still. And leveling it is obviously great, don't get me wrong.

And there is a misconception when people say 'well bash interrupts casts anyways through frontal stun immunity, you just don't get the stun part but are still interrupted, which means it's just an overrated ability'. This is patently false and I can only assume they've never played an ogre shaman at high levels or are parroting false information read elsewhere when themselves choosing which race to play.

I don't have concrete numbers on this but from personal experience I believe the chance for a bash to interrupt a cast is simply the chance any damage has to interrupt a cast vs your concentration check or push. I leveled with JBB spam to 60 and could literally go hours face tanking mobs without a single interrupted cast.

Now how many interrupts would another race would have gotten in the same time frame or if those interrupted casts even made any real difference in terms of survival or in kills per hour is another question entirely, but just wanted to clear the air on that if you do have FSI, basically be welcomed to interrupt free heaven.

[mickmoranis]

Tbh I would personally go troll becuse the neck clicky.

i kno i kno fsi is great, but the only time i die in dungeon soloing ever is from mob running.

And i mean 100% ever.

if its a mob you can solo, the only way it kills u is by ether you being a moran or it running and resisting all roots (even double malo'd herophants will do this).

Unfortunetly for non troll shamans, a JBB will break a root, mob will run and now u have 2 seb protectors on you.

So for ME its the neck all the way

Also I like to adorn the walls with the blood of my foes.

[silo32]

ogre is king in bis gear

the only racial that is not negated with items is FRONTAL STUN IMMUNITY

[mickmoranis]

ogre is king in bis gear

the only racial that is not negated with items is FRONTAL STUN IMMUNITY

unless the skeletal hero starts walking off...

[Videri]

This shaman race poll from a while back might be worth a look. http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222813

[Videri]

frontal stun immunity is only useful when you're bad at the game and/or retarded

Because being stunned occasionally won't stop a pro shaman? Surely you're not saying a shaman should never tank a mob while soloing.

[mickmoranis]

If you are edging through a fight could make a difference.

Mobs gonna run prob anyway tho and u gon die from a seb protector

[Wiley]

(assuming every sham has or can get Epic/Fungi/Torpor intensifies)

[mickmoranis]

^if you dont/wont and ur worried about race selection and use any other method than my RP chart then ur over thinking it

[Raev]

if you're in a scenario where a bash would get you killed then you are playing incorrectly and therefore are retarded and/or bad at the game

Obviously wrong; there will always been encounters at the edge of your character's abilities where you can't win every time, and a racial ability could be the difference. And it makes perfect sense to try these encounters as long as your expectation is positive, for example winning and looting a 10K item 80% of the time, and 20% of the time capping out and recharging for 200p.

Also even in situations where you can expect to win 100% of the time, racial abilities might enable you to win faster and more conveniently.

[mickmoranis]

both of you gonna die to the seb protector outside the hero

i mean theres no real best. you could edge through a fight as a troll and use a clicky neck to freeze something and be at like 1 hp/mana and regen up and kill it no sweat, but you could argue that you wouldnt even be at 1hp if you didnt miss a bash cast or something earlier.

[jarlerop]

Ogres best at 60, trolls best 1-60. I went troll since ill probably quit once i get to 60 :)

[pasi]

This comes up every few months.

Ogre for soloing. In general, if you can roll an ogre in EQ, you do it.

Innoruuk worshipping troll shaman for everything else.

[Dreenk317]

Iksar for the winsar!! Innate regen, AC bonus + fashion quest win, sweet cast animation, and you have a tail!!!

[Landael]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/search.php?searchid=6880593

[mickmoranis]

This comes up every few months.

Ogre for soloing. In general, if you can roll an ogre in EQ, you do it.

Innoruuk worshipping troll shaman for everything else.

idk man lots of stuff in the crypt ive thought id like that neck to save me from death from a fleeing mob and root breaking, but i have no clue if it gets resisted more than root or if its just totally not worth it. but lots of times i thought, man i wish i had that neck it would be a real game breaker for [insert basically any camp in sebilis and most camps I can think of outside of it]

[pasi]

Resist rate sucks. Cast time sucks. Snare % sucks (mobs fleeing Will still be moving). Duration sucks.

However, it's still giving you a castable version of a strong ability you do not have. Imagine how desireable a 20% attack slow would be on a druid.

Of course, you could always get a spear of constriction with ensnare which lasts a goddamn year.

[pasi]

As I usually add to this, iksar AC bonus is further diluted by lacking access to JBBP. So, unless you're getting a Tunare belt as a shaman, that's something to keep in mind.

I do think JBB is underrated here as well. But that's for another time.

[Vexenu]

idk man lots of stuff in the crypt ive thought id like that neck to save me from death from a fleeing mob and root breaking, but i have no clue if it gets resisted more than root or if its just totally not worth it. but lots of times i thought, man i wish i had that neck it would be a real game breaker for [insert basically any camp in sebilis and most camps I can think of outside of it]

What you're saying would make sense if Clinging Darkness had a lower resist mod than root, but I don't think it does. If anything, given that it also has a DoT component it's probably easier to resist. So I don't see why you couldn't just re-root in an emergency situation where you're about to lose a fleeing mob.

Also, I think the whole Shaman race debate is entirely pointless. It's like arguing over which color seats will make your Lamborghini faster. The Shaman class is so absurdly powerful when geared out at 60 that it simply doesn't make a difference what race you chose. I believe the most successful Shaman solo artist is the objectively weakest race (Barb). Aesthetic choice should really be the only consideration. This debate is not nearly as settled as the Necro and Monk racial choices being categorically 100% in favor of Iksar over the alternatives, or Warriors and SKs being Ogres due to their massive STA advantages.

That's the reason this is probably the single most recurrent question on the forum (honestly it must be the subject of at least a dozen threads by now): because there really is no bad choice. The only objectively "bad" racial choice for a Shaman is the one that results in you not getting to 60 with all the spells and gear you need because you don't like your character's appearance. Because once you're 60/geared/Torpored, it simply doesn't matter what race you chose. The strengths of the class at that point far outweigh any minor racial weaknesses.

Although for the record I am on TEAM OGRE. But that has as much to do with the glory of the double-shrunk Ogre model as it does with FSI.

[pasi]

Yes. Each component of clinging darkness (snare + dot) have a resist check. If either fails, the spell is fully resisted.

I want to say on live there was another issue with the casted level of the item being static or something that further contributed to the resist rate (brother rerolled a DE cleric for the neck which never seemed to work), but I'm on my lunch break and don't want to delve into the depths with this.

[mickmoranis]

Resist rate sucks. Cast time sucks. Snare % sucks (mobs fleeing Will still be moving). Duration sucks.

However, it's still giving you a castable version of a strong ability you do not have. Imagine how desireable a 20% attack slow would be on a druid.

Of course, you could always get a spear of constriction with ensnare which lasts a goddamn year.

if a fleeing mob is still going to be moving even like really slowly then its prob not enough then so ogre prob best.

I feel like I miss it durring that moment that Im sure you know well, where you are lom and mob is fleeing and you fucked up cus you're a human being killing static spawns for 10hrs straight and now its walking off not dotted but you barely have it rooted and cant risk it breaking during a cast of your epic or jbb but you dont have the mana for a ebolt or something... I assume that the neck would be a game changer in that scneario, which is an UBER frustrating scenario that happens more often than not when fighting tough camps IMO

[pasi]

i would rather use a smoldering cudgel's attack rounds than a JBB

The strength of JBB is prior to getting 60/ acquiring Torpor. It's especially good in the 45-49 hell.

[Troxx]

Troll would be my vote.

-racial regen is clutch
-frontal stun immunity is really really overrated
-large size for bash
-can wear jaundiced
-I'd argue the best balance of shaman starting stats