Let's Put to Rest "Outdoor is/is not FFA" Myths

[QFuzzle]

Twice over this weekend I ran into people who held strongly different beliefs on the topic of mobs that are outdoors and their camp-able status. Irritatingly, I was at the brunt end of both occasions. At one point, a petition was sent out to end the dispute, but the hero never arrived (even though purposeful KS'ing was involved - yikes).

Both instances involved a solo individual challenging a group that was rapidly killing a large number of mobs within an outdoor fort area (BW giant fort, and WW giant fort to be exact).

Taking into considering the Play Nice Policy and having read the "Arbitration / Camps" portion of Rogean's rule post, there appears to not actually be a clear answer to this.

The beliefs consisted of (but weren't limited to):
1) All outdoor mobs are FFA except for a single spawn that's being killed by someone (something like AC would be an example of a highly contested spot that is outdoors and requires a special rule-set to apply to it).
2) If the whole fort/area is being killed proficiently by a group, it's their camp. Not FFA.
3) Certain mobs of the fort are different camps.

There may have been some specific rulings on this matter in the past, but I haven't found them. I'd like to get some clear, definitive, concise GM rulings or posts or something that will clear the air on this topic; something people can point to if there's an issue that people refuse to resolve themselves, and no GM comes to save the day.

[paulgiamatti]

Project 1999 Staff will not be defining what constitutes a camp. Instead, Project 1999 Customer Service Staff will arbitrate spawn disputes on a per-case-basis. We greatly encourage players to find their own resolution to spawn disputes, as the solution provided by the staff will at best be a win-lose situation, and possbily a lose-lose situation. No two decisions, even at the same 'camp', are guaranteed to be the same, as we will take into account multiple factors in making a determination on a 'camp'.

That being said, you can absolutely "camp" mobs, and you cannot steal another players 'camp'. In general, if the placeholder or placeholders for a spawn are being killed, that 'camp' can be considered held by the player doing the killing so long as they are keeping the placeholders cleared. You do not necessarily need to be at the spawn point to call it 'claimed' while it is uncontested, however, if someone else wishes to contest the 'camp' you do need to return to the 'camp' and maintain a presence at or very near the spawn(s) in order to hold it. It should also be noted that if you camp out or leave the zone (this includes dying/"corpsing" items), you have forfeited a camp. You cannot hold multiple 'camps' if another group wishes to contest one that you are holding. The player holding multiple 'camps' retains the right to choose which 'camp' to give up.

Seems pretty clearly laid out to me.

If literally the entire fort is being cleared and mobs are not being left up for more than a few seconds, then for all intents and purposes that is a "camp". If someone waltzes in and starts sniping spawns in the few seconds before the group pulls them, then that person is being a complete asshole and should be petitioned.

And to be clear, waltzing in and sniping spawns isn't "contesting" a camp - it's just being an asshole. Contesting a camp means engaging in dialogue with the players like a reasonable person and expressing that you want some of those mobs if they aren't killing all of them.

[fan D]

OP must be some immature 11 year old idiot

its 2016 dude if u lose one hill giant spawn u dont need to petition the gm's about it

[skarlorn]

OP must be some immature 11 year old idiot

its 2016 dude if u lose one hill giant spawn u dont need to petition the gm's about it

He probably isn't a dwarf Rogue capable of stealing all the pp without breakin a sweat

[QFuzzle]

OP must be some immature 11 year old idiot

its 2016 dude if u lose one hill giant spawn u dont need to petition the gm's about it

I'm actually trying to take a higher road by not throwing anybody under the bus with names, screenshots, logs, and video proof (which I have).

I don't think trying to have a more clear understanding of this when there are clearly people who push from both sides of these beliefs is an immature way of handling this.

Just lookin' to keep things from escalating in the future if I can help it.

[QFuzzle]

Seems pretty clearly laid out to me.

If literally the entire fort is being cleared and mobs are not being left up for more than a few seconds, then for all intents and purposes that is a "camp". If someone waltzes in and starts sniping spawns in the few seconds before the group pulls them, then that person is being a complete asshole and should be petitioned.

And to be clear, waltzing in and sniping spawns isn't "contesting" a camp - it's just being an asshole. Contesting a camp means engaging in dialogue with the players like a reasonable person and expressing that you want some of those mobs if they aren't killing all of them.

Ya' see, that's what I thought at first, until some guy rolled up and took some spawns without asking, then claimed he's had GM's side with him on this before and he's always won - yada yada. I have no idea if this guy was telling the truth or not, but he kept those BW giants on lockdown whether my group wanted it or not.

Then I try to go at it with that same perspective as a solo artist against a group with three pullers taking the entire WW fort; and find myself getting KS'ed.

Just help me understand!!

Sounds like that first guy mighta had the wrong idea according to the way you're laying it out.

[paulgiamatti]

People like that very rarely have GMs on their side - if someone invokes server rules or GM favor to justify their actions, they're probably doing something shitty and lying to you.

[Xaanka]

Twice over this weekend I ran into people who held strongly different beliefs on the topic of mobs that are outdoors and their camp-able status. Irritatingly, I was at the brunt end of both occasions. At one point, a petition was sent out to end the dispute, but the hero never arrived (even though purposeful KS'ing was involved - yikes).

Both instances involved a solo individual challenging a group that was rapidly killing a large number of mobs within an outdoor fort area (BW giant fort, and WW giant fort to be exact).

Taking into considering the Play Nice Policy and having read the "Arbitration / Camps" portion of Rogean's rule post, there appears to not actually be a clear answer to this.

The beliefs consisted of (but weren't limited to):
1) All outdoor mobs are FFA except for a single spawn that's being killed by someone (something like AC would be an example of a highly contested spot that is outdoors and requires a special rule-set to apply to it).
2) If the whole fort/area is being killed proficiently by a group, it's their camp. Not FFA.
3) Certain mobs of the fort are different camps.

There may have been some specific rulings on this matter in the past, but I haven't found them. I'd like to get some clear, definitive, concise GM rulings or posts or something that will clear the air on this topic; something people can point to if there's an issue that people refuse to resolve themselves, and no GM comes to save the day.

didn't read go outside

[QFuzzle]

didn't read go outside

Not a bad idea.

[QFuzzle]

People like that very rarely have GMs on their side - if someone invokes server rules or GM favor to justify their actions, they're probably doing something shitty and lying to you.

You might be right about that..

My group just decided not to fight over it and let him have the mobs.

[Wiley]

The rules are pretty clear as far as I understand them. Outside or indoors if you and/or group is at or near the mobs spawn location and pulling as they spawn then its considered a camp. If your trying to hold down more spawns elsewhere then those can be contested.

2) If the whole fort/area is being killed proficiently by a group, it's their camp. Not FFA.

Edit again, that is technically correct but you must forfeit some of the spawns of another group wants in, from Derupal's server rules thread above:

That being said, you can absolutely "camp" mobs, and you cannot steal another players 'camp'. In general, if the placeholder or placeholders for a spawn are being killed, that 'camp' can be considered held by the player doing the killing so long as they are keeping the placeholders cleared. You do not necessarily need to be at the spawn point to call it 'claimed' while it is uncontested, however, if someone else wishes to contest the 'camp' you do need to return to the 'camp' and maintain a presence at or very near the spawn(s) in order to hold it. It should also be noted that if you camp out or leave the zone (this includes dying/"corpsing" items), you have forfeited a camp. You cannot hold multiple 'camps' if another group wishes to contest one that you are holding. The player holding multiple 'camps' retains the right to choose which 'camp' to give up.

[NegaStoat]

Seems pretty clearly laid out to me.

If literally the entire fort is being cleared and mobs are not being left up for more than a few seconds, then for all intents and purposes that is a "camp". If someone waltzes in and starts sniping spawns in the few seconds before the group pulls them, then that person is being a complete asshole and should be petitioned.

And to be clear, waltzing in and sniping spawns isn't "contesting" a camp - it's just being an asshole. Contesting a camp means engaging in dialogue with the players like a reasonable person and expressing that you want some of those mobs if they aren't killing all of them.

With my necromancer I was camping the dwarves at the dock in Butcherblock, keeping the two common dwarves by the shoreline dead and the two with longer respawns at the ends of the piers. The four spawns were broken and I was making my attacks on them within 3-5 seconds of their spawning in (one at a time, in turn). A shaman showed up and parked right on top of one of the common dwarf spawns as I was killing one on the pier.

I let the shaman know politely that I had the four spawns camped and identified them, but let the player know that I wasn't after the dwarves within the huts or the solo paladin dwarf that was around the wall by the shoreline. The shaman waited until the single commoner spawned and then started killing. I made one more attempt to ask the person to please leave my camped 4 spawns alone. That this point the player made their first reply to me, which was "I'm killing this one."

I shrugged and petitioned. I had been camping those 4 spawns all within LOS of each other for the past couple of hours. I didn't feel like moving on, or that I should have to. Braknar politely responded in less than 15 minutes to inform me that all simple outdoor mobs could only be camped in singles, including mobs with a roaming patrol path - assuming the player is camping their spawn point.

After hearing this I replied to Braknar - "Okay. Let's pretend that I'm at the Lesser Faydark bandit camp called the Sisters, where there's 4 spawns all very close to each other. Are you telling me that a single player cannot camp those 4 spawns and have it respected? That at any time another player can sit down and claim one or more of them, since I as the original person there can only claim one?"

Braknar replied that it would sadly be the case that the staff could only defend my camping one mob that is outdoors, even in that situation. And that I should be encouraged to resolve the matter with the other player if at all possible.

It was around this time that I took a break from the game. I didn't agree with what was going on, especially with what I had experienced on old live retail servers like Brell Serelis, but that's what was up.

[paulgiamatti]

That's certainly a point of contention I'd have with outdoor camp enforcement, assuming that's still the way it's enforced. But in that case everything I've said thus far rings just as true - that person is still just as big of an asshole for taking before talking, even if enforcement's on his side, and he should still be petitioned if for no other reason than to encourage the staff to change the way they enforce outdoor camps.

[QFuzzle]

With my necromancer I was camping the dwarves at the dock in Butcherblock, keeping the two common dwarves by the shoreline dead and the two with longer respawns at the ends of the piers. The four spawns were broken and I was making my attacks on them within 3-5 seconds of their spawning in (one at a time, in turn). A shaman showed up and parked right on top of one of the common dwarf spawns as I was killing one on the pier.

I let the shaman know politely that I had the four spawns camped and identified them, but let the player know that I wasn't after the dwarves within the huts or the solo paladin dwarf that was around the wall by the shoreline. The shaman waited until the single commoner spawned and then started killing. I made one more attempt to ask the person to please leave my camped 4 spawns alone. That this point the player made their first reply to me, which was "I'm killing this one."

I shrugged and petitioned. I had been camping those 4 spawns all within LOS of each other for the past couple of hours. I didn't feel like moving on, or that I should have to. Braknar politely responded in less than 15 minutes to inform me that all simple outdoor mobs could only be camped in singles, including mobs with a roaming patrol path - assuming the player is camping their spawn point.

After hearing this I replied to Braknar - "Okay. Let's pretend that I'm at the Lesser Faydark bandit camp called the Sisters, where there's 4 spawns all very close to each other. Are you telling me that a single player cannot camp those 4 spawns and have it respected? That at any time another player can sit down and claim one or more of them, since I as the original person there can only claim one?"

Braknar replied that it would sadly be the case that the staff could only defend my camping one mob that is outdoors, even in that situation. And that I should be encouraged to resolve the matter with the other player if at all possible.

It was around this time that I took a break from the game. I didn't agree with what was going on, especially with what I had experienced on old live retail servers like Brell Serelis, but that's what was up.

I wonder if it would have been a different story if it were you and a buddy (thus a "group") camping those dwarves in exactly the same manner, instead of just you.

Hmm...

[paulgiamatti]

If there's one message that I think should universally apply, it's communication. It's impossible to imagine a scenario where someone decides to be a dick and move in on someone else's camp without a word, and both parties end up happy. Either one party leaves, a begrudging compromise is made, or it escalates.

[NegaStoat]

That's certainly a point of contention I'd have with outdoor camp enforcement, assuming that's still the way it's enforced. But in that case everything I've said thus far rings just as true - that person is still just as big of an asshole for taking before talking, even if enforcement's on his side, and he should still be petitioned if for no other reason than to encourage the staff to change the way they enforce outdoor camps.

Pretty true. I think the lesson I learned after the above event with the dock dwarf camp was to take the time to take a screenshot with a time stamp when you're done breaking a camp and have it secure, every time. Later, if an issue pops up immediately take another set of screnshots with the chat window as events unfold. Try to be diplomatic, but don't give an inch on a camp consisting of 4 spawns or less within LOS of each other. If the player doesn't take the hint, name and shame on the RnF boards if the other player is being completely unreasonable and smug.

The server staff might not enforce the topic of camps, but player reputation still counts for something. Just make an effort of being patient and making it an open and shut case that the other player is a choad.

[Red_Messiah]

Start banning people who consistently petition to lawyer their way into pixels imo

[Xaanka]

With my necromancer I was camping the dwarves at the dock in Butcherblock, keeping the two common dwarves by the shoreline dead and the two with longer respawns at the ends of the piers. The four spawns were broken and I was making my attacks on them within 3-5 seconds of their spawning in (one at a time, in turn). A shaman showed up and parked right on top of one of the common dwarf spawns as I was killing one on the pier.

I let the shaman know politely that I had the four spawns camped and identified them, but let the player know that I wasn't after the dwarves within the huts or the solo paladin dwarf that was around the wall by the shoreline. The shaman waited until the single commoner spawned and then started killing. I made one more attempt to ask the person to please leave my camped 4 spawns alone. That this point the player made their first reply to me, which was "I'm killing this one."

I shrugged and petitioned. I had been camping those 4 spawns all within LOS of each other for the past couple of hours. I didn't feel like moving on, or that I should have to. Braknar politely responded in less than 15 minutes to inform me that all simple outdoor mobs could only be camped in singles, including mobs with a roaming patrol path - assuming the player is camping their spawn point.

After hearing this I replied to Braknar - "Okay. Let's pretend that I'm at the Lesser Faydark bandit camp called the Sisters, where there's 4 spawns all very close to each other. Are you telling me that a single player cannot camp those 4 spawns and have it respected? That at any time another player can sit down and claim one or more of them, since I as the original person there can only claim one?"

Braknar replied that it would sadly be the case that the staff could only defend my camping one mob that is outdoors, even in that situation. And that I should be encouraged to resolve the matter with the other player if at all possible.

It was around this time that I took a break from the game. I didn't agree with what was going on, especially with what I had experienced on old live retail servers like Brell Serelis, but that's what was up.

played on red for years and literally never had to think this many words about the camp rules

[A1rh3ad]

With my necromancer I was camping the dwarves at the dock in Butcherblock, keeping the two common dwarves by the shoreline dead and the two with longer respawns at the ends of the piers. The four spawns were broken and I was making my attacks on them within 3-5 seconds of their spawning in (one at a time, in turn). A shaman showed up and parked right on top of one of the common dwarf spawns as I was killing one on the pier.

I let the shaman know politely that I had the four spawns camped and identified them, but let the player know that I wasn't after the dwarves within the huts or the solo paladin dwarf that was around the wall by the shoreline. The shaman waited until the single commoner spawned and then started killing. I made one more attempt to ask the person to please leave my camped 4 spawns alone. That this point the player made their first reply to me, which was "I'm killing this one."

I shrugged and petitioned. I had been camping those 4 spawns all within LOS of each other for the past couple of hours. I didn't feel like moving on, or that I should have to. Braknar politely responded in less than 15 minutes to inform me that all simple outdoor mobs could only be camped in singles, including mobs with a roaming patrol path - assuming the player is camping their spawn point.

After hearing this I replied to Braknar - "Okay. Let's pretend that I'm at the Lesser Faydark bandit camp called the Sisters, where there's 4 spawns all very close to each other. Are you telling me that a single player cannot camp those 4 spawns and have it respected? That at any time another player can sit down and claim one or more of them, since I as the original person there can only claim one?"

Braknar replied that it would sadly be the case that the staff could only defend my camping one mob that is outdoors, even in that situation. And that I should be encouraged to resolve the matter with the other player if at all possible.

It was around this time that I took a break from the game. I didn't agree with what was going on, especially with what I had experienced on old live retail servers like Brell Serelis, but that's what was up.

Imo he was just asking for one. I would have been the nice guy and given him two on the ends to pull while i easily camped the two close together, but that's just me. If he just wanted to camp one I believe that would be more than fair. Those dwarves are pretty spread out. Thats like kiting a whole line more than a camp.

[NegaStoat]

Imo he was just asking for one. I would have been the nice guy and given him two on the ends to pull while i easily camped the two close together, but that's just me. If he just wanted to camp one I believe that would be more than fair. Those dwarves are pretty spread out. Thats like kiting a whole line more than a camp.

I get the fact that the player was just after one dwarf, and might have wanted to avoid faction hits (as a troll shaman though?) in wanting one of the commoners. There were the two commoner dwarves in the hut along with the paladin on the side by himself, which I mentioned to the dude at the time. The thing at the time was dealing with a refusal of communication from the player - a deal of "I'm not going to respect this person enough bother with typing more than 3 words because I am right" that I was facing.

I agree that I could have taken the 2 in the hut and one by the shore and it would have been okay with my meager mana pool that I was working with. I'll also agree that I shouldn't have let it get under my skin. It's just that I had read a previous ruling by GM's on the subject of camps that "up to 4 mobs, all within LOS of each other" as being a respected valid camp. I was surprised to see it had been tossed out the window for the "outdoors - single spawn camp" rule that seemingly had come out of nowhere. This had happened a long while back.

[Baler]

Seafuries are FFA

[Red_Messiah]

Nothing beats getting FTE on 3 seafuries then looking for a 4th for 10 minutes while the OOT infused salty tells come in. I can't help it that it takes 4 to quad. Leave me an extra one next time, or send Brad McQuad a message about his bad game design...maybe he'll fix it.

[maskedmelon]

OP, you were cucked. Rule number one of managing aggressions upon oneself or one's property: Respond swiftly and with overwhelming force. If someone denies you one mob, deny that person any mobs. If someone takes one of your mobs, take every one of their mobs. If your puller is unable to keep up, designate a second puller to assist. If someone ccs or tags off your pulls, cancel magic on those mobs, dot them, fear them or charm, haste and release them.

The important thing is to act, not only for your own livelihood, but for that of your groupmates. You can worry about rules and fabricating a story to conform if need be once the threat has been neutralized.

Good luck! ^^v

[Lhancelot]

The important thing is to act, not only for your own livelihood, but for that of your groupmates. You can worry about rules and fabricating a story to conform if need be once the threat has been neutralized.


This is taken from a page out of the book, "The Art of Mob War on P99." Nice job finding that, MM.

[Lagaidh]

You might be right about that..

My group just decided not to fight over it and let him have the mobs.

This has been my rule of thumb on P99. There's just no other alternative if you want to keep smiling.

I know I'm a fucked up person. I have problems: PTSD is a bitch. That said, when I encounter another player who is ready to pull this kind of crap in game, I genuinely feel sorry for that player. They can have it.

Given the problems I have and I don't act like that to others, I always wonder what has gone wrong in a player's life to make them treat other people with such petty disregard over shit that doesn't ultimately matter.

[Lhancelot]

Given the problems I have and I don't act like that to others, I always wonder what has gone wrong in a player's life to make them treat other people with such petty disregard over shit that doesn't ultimately matter.

Some people were born that way.

[maskedmelon]

It don't have to be a sad thing or an angry thing though. There sure are some genuine douches out there, but generally you can make friends of anyone doing this. Make light of it and have fun with it rather than trying to assert ownership of digital real estate based on the fact that you are more important than them.

Yeah it can suck if you are losing and nobody enjoys losing itself, but you can still have fun even when losing and a if you feel that your fun is being threatened, you can go do something else ^^ Generally when I encounter someone doing this, I'll do all the things that I mentioned above, but also engage my "foe" in some playful banter.

I've run into quite a few people who are like "omgosh, sorry, I'll stop" when I catch them, as if doing it sneakily is ok, but in the open is not lol. But you know what? I tell 'em to not worry about it and keep at it and if I lose mobs to them, well that just means I am not doing my job ^.~v

It does t always have to be about mean people taking advantage of other people. Make friends, have fun, DESTROY TOUR ENEMIES! ^.~v

[sacman08]

On live it was always static spawn points can be camped, roaming or pathing mobs were FFA (Inside/outside didn't matter).

[Whirled]

Start banning people who consistently petition to lawyer their way into pixels imo

This is an excellent idea. Once the petitioner hits X amount in a week or month.
Poof*
Maybe have a box appear on their screen too.

It's time to take a break and do something else!
Click Yes to exit or No to petition.

If they click No, still exit*:D

[QFuzzle]

OP, you were cucked. Rule number one of managing aggressions upon oneself or one's property: Respond swiftly and with overwhelming force. If someone denies you one mob, deny that person any mobs. If someone takes one of your mobs, take every one of their mobs. If your puller is unable to keep up, designate a second puller to assist. If someone ccs or tags off your pulls, cancel magic on those mobs, dot them, fear them or charm, haste and release them.

The important thing is to act, not only for your own livelihood, but for that of your groupmates. You can worry about rules and fabricating a story to conform if need be once the threat has been neutralized.

Good luck! ^^v

mischievous_smile.gif

[QFuzzle]

On live it was always static spawn points can be camped, roaming or pathing mobs were FFA (Inside/outside didn't matter).

This would make sense and be a very clear line in the sand, buuuut......

[paulgiamatti]

I can't believe it, but I agree with MM for the most part - and I appreciate the ironic use of "cucked". There are plenty of sane, rational ways to go about dealing with douchebags and assholes - engaging in FTE/kill stealing wars is not one. My approach would certainly be less friendly than MM's, but probably more honest. I never bother with small infringements like someone sneaking a mob here and there, but if they're hindering my group I'll simply request that they please stop taking our mobs (using /tells, although /ooc drama is pretty entertaining), followed by a petition if it continues. That takes all of two minutes, if you're a slow typer, and your jimmies needn't be rustled.

[maskedmelon]

My approach would certainly be less friendly than MM's

I have no doubt of this ^^





Just kidding! Oh come on Paul, don't be such a sourpuss ^^ My approach generally results with a friendship and the interests of my group intact. Yours results in suboptimal conditions for your group and am enemy :c Do not be so eager to view everyone as your oppressor, you are a tough guy!! I promise you, do this ome thing and you'll find more enjoyment in people and situations than you ever thought possible ^.~v

[paulgiamatti]

I doubt that as much as I doubt your honesty - which is quite a bit, by the way. I can't remember the last time I clicked "View Post" next to your name without feeling a pang of brow-furrowed skepticism afterward.

I have no issues making friends in game, and treating assholes like assholes instead of killing them with kindness isn't just better for my sanity, it's better for the entire server.

[Ikon]

AFAIK you can't camp the entire fort even if you can pull and kill every mob. You need to be sitting in front of the spawn which is pretty much impossible to do with a group to "claim" that spawn.

Another person or group can come and take some of the repops if they can tag them first. I'm pretty sure its part of the "you can camp two spawns but if someone comes in you need to choose which spawn you want and concede the other". That applies even if you can keep both spawns (or more) cleared.

[maskedmelon]

I doubt that as much as I doubt your honesty - which is quite a bit, by the way. I can't remember the last time I clicked "View Post" next to your name without feeling a pang of brow-furrowed skepticism afterward.

Well ty for still giving me the opportunity despite your reservations and I hope that one day I am able to make you happier for it ^^

I have no issues making friends in game,

I don't doubt that you do ^^ You seem like the kind of guy who would randomly power level newbies in CB :3

and treating assholes like assholes instead of killing them with kindness isn't just better for my sanity, it's better for the entire server.

I actually agree with this ^^ I just don't consider near!y as many people assholes as I once did ^^ They're just different ^∆^

[paulgiamatti]

AFAIK you can't camp the entire fort even if you can pull and kill every mob. You need to be sitting in front of the spawn which is pretty much impossible to do with a group to "claim" that spawn.

You can, but as stated in the arbitration guidelines anyone is welcome to contest camps, at which point vicinity to spawn points becomes a factor. If you enter the giant fort and literally every single mob is down, and a group is efficiently pulling them as they spawn, sniping those spawns makes you an asshole. Contesting means talking with the people there - there's no excuse not to do this.

Another person or group can come and take some of the repops if they can tag them first. I'm pretty sure its part of the "you can camp two spawns but if someone comes in you need to choose which spawn you want and concede the other". That applies even if you can keep both spawns (or more) cleared.

Correct, but there's a reason why this isn't written out as a rule and only delineated in private by GMs (assuming it even still is) - every camp and every situation is different. If the group in the fort decides to take a break and mobs start repopping, those mobs are now uncontested. If the person camping sisters in Lesser Faydark goes AFK and his mobs respawn, he has effectively forfeited his camp. If the person camping sisters is instantly FTEing each spawn, you would have to be a massive, toxic piece of shit to go sit on those spawn points and try to tag FTE before he does. Even more so if you do it without even attempting to communicate with the camp holder, who might've been gracious enough to give you one, or who might've been leaving soon, etc.

[Dreenk317]

If the person camping sisters is instantly FTEing each spawn, you would have to be a massive, toxic piece of shit to go sit on those spawn points and try to tag FTE before he does. Even more so if you do it without even attempting to communicate with the camp holder, who might've been gracious enough to give you one, or who might've been leaving soon, etc.

Speaking as the person that has been camping sisters (with no real need of the plat, but exp plus pp? Why not). And had randos run up and start sniping without saying anything. And then randos come up and ask how long I'll be etc. I tend to get aggressive with the snipers and make sure to engage all spawns and lock them out if I can. Even asking everyone on my friends list if they have an alt they would like to bring just make the snipers day even worse. Whereas the person that asks how long I'll be, I usually end up logging to my main after my current pull and/or duoing with them.

I don't know, I find being an asshole to me tends to make me an asshole towards you. And being polite to me will make me polite towards you. Seems to me that I'm not the only one that behaves this way. Figured this shit out when I was like six and started being respectful to others. Just waiting for lots of p99 players to figure it out too.

[Lhancelot]

Do not be so eager to view everyone as your oppressor, you are a tough guy!! I promise you, do this ome thing and you'll find more enjoyment in people and situations than you ever thought possible ^.~v
This brought tears to my eyes, Paul doesn't realize how lucky he is to have a forumfriend like MM. To think he could even begin to consider the heartfelt messages written by MM as disingenuous appalls me.

[Ikon]

You can, but as stated in the arbitration guidelines anyone is welcome to contest camps, at which point vicinity to spawn points becomes a factor. If you enter the giant fort and literally every single mob is down, and a group is efficiently pulling them as they spawn, sniping those spawns makes you an asshole. Contesting means talking with the people there - there's no excuse not to do this.



Correct, but there's a reason why this isn't written out as a rule and only delineated in private by GMs (assuming it even still is) - every camp and every situation is different. If the group in the fort decides to take a break and mobs start repopping, those mobs are now uncontested. If the person camping sisters in Lesser Faydark goes AFK and his mobs respawn, he has effectively forfeited his camp. If the person camping sisters is instantly FTEing each spawn, you would have to be a massive, toxic piece of shit to go sit on those spawn points and try to tag FTE before he does. Even more so if you do it without even attempting to communicate with the camp holder, who might've been gracious enough to give you one, or who might've been leaving soon, etc.
Well yeah I usually just assume the being polite about it as a given :)

[Triiz]

OP leaves out the fact he insisted on having this dispute in shout, even though no one was really responding. At one point he shouted something like "I just petitioned you! I got this on video!" or something similar. Then for probably a solid hour kept shouting he was getting FTE solo vs the group.

I was on the opposite side of the zone so didn't actually see the encounter, just OP's spam, but I can tell you OP takes his WW giants seriously

[dbouya]

OP, you were cucked. Rule number one of managing aggressions upon oneself or one's property: Respond swiftly and with overwhelming force. If someone denies you one mob, deny that person any mobs. If someone takes one of your mobs, take every one of their mobs. If your puller is unable to keep up, designate a second puller to assist. If someone ccs or tags off your pulls, cancel magic on those mobs, dot them, fear them or charm, haste and release them.

The important thing is to act, not only for your own livelihood, but for that of your groupmates. You can worry about rules and fabricating a story to conform if need be once the threat has been neutralized.

Good luck! ^^v

Casting cancel magic should be a bannable offense.

[indiscriminate_hater]

played on red for years and literally never had to think

[QFuzzle]

OP leaves out the fact he insisted on having this dispute in shout, even though no one was really responding. At one point he shouted something like "I just petitioned you! I got this on video!" or something similar. Then for probably a solid hour kept shouting he was getting FTE solo vs the group.

I was on the opposite side of the zone so didn't actually see the encounter, just OP's spam, but I can tell you OP takes his WW giants seriously

This is pretty accurate from an outsider's perspective.

I went in thinking I was in the right, the group disagreed, one of the pullers told me the giants were camped (while we were in a different corner of the fort from their group), KS'ed a pull of mine, I got upset and made snarky remarks until I dinged, then logged off.

I do apologize for my behavior, though. I really did think I was right, and that they just didn't understand the rules.

I made this thread on here, purposely being vague, to find some better answers than what I was clearly believing, instead of blasting people.

(P.S. - people had been talking to me, just not in shout)

[QFuzzle]

You all bring up some good points. I appreciate the feedback. ^^