duelwield question

[Darkforge]

I have a question on duelwield. Is it better to have the faster weapon with lower damnage in main or slower with higher damnage. Does your off hand check on your main hands delay or its own delay?

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1002

[zt004]

"You want low delay in mainhand and best ratio in offhand. The damage bonus does not get applied to offhand weapons, and your offhand swings independently of your mainhand."

copy and pasted from above link

[Rejuvenation]

Damage bonus is not currently implemented. For DPS, put best ratio in mainhand, and next best in offhand. When the damage bonus is put back in, yes you will likely want your faster weapon in mainhand.

[freakyuno]

Even without the damage bonus, doesn't a successful dual wield check require a main-hand swing, or is that just a Live Server thing? I always remember wanting the fastest weapon in your main-hand because you could not swing your off-hand weapon till the main-hand swing and did a DW check.

[Pescador]

That wasn't true. I definitely had multiple swings in my offhand independent of swining with my main hand.

There were some people with wurmslayer mainhand / fast weapon offhand. They could tell you that you didn't have to swing with the wurmslayer for each offhand, otherwise you are effectively reducing your offhand to 40 delay. They are definitely independent.

[freakyuno]

That wasn't true. I definitely had multiple swings in my offhand independent of swining with my main hand.

There were some people with wurmslayer mainhand / fast weapon offhand. They could tell you that you didn't have to swing with the wurmslayer for each offhand, otherwise you are effectively reducing your offhand to 40 delay. They are definitely independent.

Yep, just went and looked it up, it appears that people used fast weapons in their offhand, because the dual wield check can only occur based on the offhand weapon delay. So each time the delay on the offhand weapon elapses, you can check for DW success, and either swing, or not swing based on the result.

[guineapig]

Damage bonus is not currently implemented. For DPS, put best ratio in mainhand, and next best in offhand. When the damage bonus is put back in, yes you will likely want your faster weapon in mainhand.

Pretty much spot correct until damage bonuses are back.

After that there are certain situations where you will want to break the rule (ie: bigger damage bonus on the better ratio weapon or a very useful proc). But mainly the trend will be what the OP posted.

[Shaggy]

DW being a "proc" off your main hand is how the game used to work till around PoP.

Back then, a very fast wep in main, and a slow high dmg in offhand was the way to go.


Dmg bonus is based off your lvl for 1h weps... So all 1h weps will be the same dmg bonus for you.. At least , that's how its always worked on live.

[Pescador]

DW being a "proc" off your main hand is how the game used to work till around PoP.
False. Refer to the above example of a ranger using wurmslayer / lupine dagger. You could get the dagger to swing twice before the wurmslayer would swing a second time, so clearly the offhand isn't a proc.

[Shaggy]

In 1999 up till 03ish , that is spot on to how it worked... I was there, and parsing , thanks tho!

[freakyuno]

DW being a "proc" off your main hand is how the game used to work till around PoP.

Back then, a very fast wep in main, and a slow high dmg in offhand was the way to go.


Dmg bonus is based off your lvl for 1h weps... So all 1h weps will be the same dmg bonus for you.. At least , that's how its always worked on live.

I thought thats the way it worked, back in the day, but couldn't find any information about it being that way. I swore I remembered it being widely accepted though.

As far as the wurmslayer example, I believe what may have been happening is a proc off a main hand swing triggers the Dual Wield, then an offhand double attack would cause two swings.

[Pescador]

How do you explain all the dual weilders with wurmslayer + a fast weapon who saw more than 1 offhand swing between mainhand swings?

How do you explain people putting a lightstone in their mainhand so it won't swing but still getting swings in their offhand?

[From 2001] "Off hand swings are on an independant timer not on the same on as your primary. To try it give a high level warrior a fast weapon for off hand and a really slow one for primary. Every so often he will end up swinging the off hand weapon a couple times in between primary swings."

[From 2002]: "Yup. I'm still amazed that this rumor is hanging around. How often your Secondary weapon swings has NOTHING to do with your Primary's delay. Do a test yourself if you really want to. Used to use a Wurmslayer/Lupine Dagger, and I can tell you without a doubt that the Lupine was frequently getting in twice as many hits as the Wurmslayer (and yes, I took Double Attack into account, had Misses turned on). "

Finally, I was playing at that time, too, and as a bard, I used a crystallized sword (11/38) and a dragoon dirk for a long time, and I distinctly remember seeing two pierces in between slashing attacks (I never turned off misses) many times. And this was early in the game's existence, too, definitely before 2003.

I think it was just a popular rumor.

EDIT: from monkly business, in Jan 2002:


Double Attack Percentage = (Skill Level plus Level ) / 500

Dual Wield Percentage = [ ( (Level * 7 plus 5) plus Level ) / 400 ] (DW caps at 252 so max DW Percentage is .63)

Damage Bonus (Primary Hand only) = ( Level - 25 ) / 3

Primary Modal = ( Weapon Damage * 2 ) Damage Bonus

Primary Hand Comparable Modal = Primary Modal / Weapon Delay

Off Hand Comparable Modal = Primary Modal / Weapon Delay * Dual Wield Percentage

More proof that offhand was independent of primary hand early in the game's history

[Mardur]

In 1999 up till 03ish , that is spot on to how it worked... I was there, and parsing , thanks tho!

Your parser was terrible.

[Estu]

Damage bonus is not currently implemented.

What? Where are you getting this? Last time I checked, my shaman was doing a lot more than 2x his weapon damage per hit. Is this a recent bug or something?

[Pescador]

I think he means there is no distinct dmg bonus for the mainhand weapon.

I can confirm this, because my rapier hits for 32 in my mainhand or my offhand, so currently you should always put the best ratio in your main hand.

[Gorgetrapper]

Prime example of how people SWORE to their death bed on how things work. Read the Kunark Strategy Guide. Same type of people who say that dual wield is tied to main hand.

One thing I WILL say though, is that dual wield on this server is partway broken. As a warrior, I've taken a weapon out of my main hand, and left one in my offhand and my offhand will NOT swing no matter how long I attack for. On this server, you HAVE to have a weapon in the main hand, for your offhand to swing (monks are excluded in this for some reason). So I will NEVER get 3 or 4 punches in one round of attacks, only 2 (double attack).

[Estu]

I think he means there is no distinct dmg bonus for the mainhand weapon.

I can confirm this, because my rapier hits for 32 in my mainhand or my offhand, so currently you should always put the best ratio in your main hand.

If the damage bonus is applied to both weapons by reason of a bug, that's NOT incentive to put the best ratio in your main hand; that's incentive to put the lowest delay in your main hand and the next-lowest in your off hand (roughly; obviously there's a trade-off, but the point is that damage bonuses make low delay favorable even if ratio is worse, whereas the lack of damage bonuses makes ratio the most important thing).

[Pescador]

yeah, i guess the best way to word it would be "best ratio after including damage bonus in your main hand"

aka, whatever puts out the most dps after dmg bonus, put it in your main hand :) and if the ratios are similar that'll definitely be the lower delay weapon.

[Shaggy]

Shrug , i parsed on a war up till a month or so after kunark when i droped the war and started a necro. I would never see a swing in off hand with a fishing pole or lightstone in hand , i would never get a hit without the main.. So , take it as you will heh.

[freakyuno]

[From 2001] "Off hand swings are on an independant timer not on the same on as your primary. To try it give a high level warrior a fast weapon for off hand and a really slow one for primary. Every so often he will end up swinging the off hand weapon a couple times in between primary swings."

[From 2002]: "Yup. I'm still amazed that this rumor is hanging around. How often your Secondary weapon swings has NOTHING to do with your Primary's delay. Do a test yourself if you really want to. Used to use a Wurmslayer/Lupine Dagger, and I can tell you without a doubt that the Lupine was frequently getting in twice as many hits as the Wurmslayer (and yes, I took Double Attack into account, had Misses turned on). "


I'm not disagreeing with you, in fact I really "don't know" the answer. I know how I remember it being discussed openly in the game every time this question would come up. But just to point out, this information is 2 years newer than the game release - and a lot of us started playing in beta in 98. It's very possible it WAS both ways and not one or the other.

[Rejuvenation]

I'm not disagreeing with you, in fact I really "don't know" the answer. I know how I remember it being discussed openly in the game every time this question would come up. But just to point out, this information is 2 years newer than the game release - and a lot of us started playing in beta in 98. It's very possible it WAS both ways and not one or the other.

Yea, but it is extremely unlikely that they would change a mechanic as drastic as Dual Wield so late. This was probably stock. When the game was released, there weren't very good log parsers available...It is not a stretch to say that it took a year or two to get one produced that was able to evaluate melee skills accurately.

Dual Wield is independent of the primary weapon...And it will never be different on this client...

When Damage bonus is implemented, you want the fastest weapon possible (as long as the ratio isnt complete garbage) in mainhand, and the best ratio in offhand.

BUT NOW, Best ratio mainhand, next best, offhand.

[Bubbles]

Every time someone asks this question, i click on the thread, excited to finally (i never really played a melee seriously, after all) understand the answer to the "which weapon goes where" question and understand why once and for all.

And i always leave the damn thread understanding even less the mechanics and the answer to the question than i did when i first started reading it.

sigh.

[Estu]

BUT NOW, Best ratio mainhand, next best, offhand.

WHY ARE YOU SAYING THIS. DAMAGE BONUS IS CLEARLY IMPLEMENTED. PEOPLE DO MUCH MORE THAN 2X WEAPON DAMAGE PER SWING.

[Chanus]

Are people confusing "Dmg Bonus" as listed on an item's stats with damage that is calculated outside of the written "DMG" number on the item's stats?

[Wildas]

Damage bonus adds a set amount of damage to each swing, it is only applied to mainhand weapons.

Because of this a faster, worse ratio weapon could outdamage a slower better ratio one.

For instance, let's take a 60 war in Kunark with a jade mace and a wurmslayer, which would they want to use?

Damage bonus at 60 is 11, so every mainhand hit gets 11 extra damage applied. Jade mace has a ratio of .5, while the Wurmslayer has a ratio of .625, clearly superior. However because the extra 11 damage is applied over twice as often in the case of the jade mace it will win in terms of dps output. How do we know that? We can use a simple formula which gives the "sweet spot" of weapon damage and divide by delay. The sweet spot is 2x weapon damage + damage bonus, This is usually the most common hit (other than min or max depending on mobs your fighting) and hits tend to be normally distributed from there).

For jade mace this gets us 9 x 2 + 11 / 18 = 29 damage per hit / 1.8 hits per second. Cancel the hits out to get a rudimentary form of damage per second (misses, duel wield, double attack, atk vs. mobs defense will all play into the actual formula). Reducing that gives you 1.611. Doing the same for Wurmslayer gives us 25 x 2 + 11 = 61/40 = 1.525. A good bit less damage than the jade mace.

This is why the general rule is keep your low delay weapon mainhand for the damage bonus and keep your best ratio weapons offhand sort of works. However, neither duel wield nor double attack fire 100% of the time, so offhand is going to naturally swing less. Because of this, if the offhand weapon ratio is superior enough to the mainhand, you'll lose dps by keeping it in your offhand.

Offhand also checks (or did on live) entirely independent of primary hand.

[Rhambuk]

WHY ARE YOU SAYING THIS. DAMAGE BONUS IS CLEARLY IMPLEMENTED. PEOPLE DO MUCH MORE THAN 2X WEAPON DAMAGE PER SWING.

DMG bonus is not in game, or you wouldn't be seeing people hitting for 1's.

People hit 2x as hard because dmg is calculated by some formula ( dont ask im fuckawful at math) including wpn dmg wpn skill and attk, When a melee gets a str buff attk goes up max hit goes up BUT you can still land a min hit of 1. Hence no bonus.

[Rhambuk]

Found this DW guide, its dated 05 but I believe these are the mechanics this server uses not the classic "offhand proc" mechanic. (sorry for the length)

EverQuest Guides : Dual Weilding Contributed by: Aquendar on 8/26/2005 9:55 AM
Let me break the biggest myth about dual wielding that is out there right now: your primary weapon has NOTHING to do with how often your secondary weapon swings.



Ok, phew, that’s out of the way. Now, dual wield, not to be confused with double attack, is the ability to use two weapons, one in your primary hand, one in your secondary. Double attack is the skill of hitting twice in one ‘swing’. The best way for me to describe this is to detail what happens with a 21-delay weapon in primary and a 34-delay weapon in secondary:



You hit auto-attack.

-Primary weapon swings.

-If you hit, mob gets to check their secondary defenses (parry, dodge, etc.)

-If you still hit, max damage possible is calculated for primary weapon, minus damage bonus

-Damage is mitigated by EQ

-Damage bonus is added

-Crit check is made, and if you do crit, damage is multiplied by 1.7

-Double attack is checked, and if you pass that check, previous few steps are repeated.



-At the same time as primary, dual wield skill is checked.

-If you pass dual wield, then you get to swing secondary, otherwise wait for secondary weapon delay

-If you hit, mob gets to check their secondary defenses (parry, dodge, etc.)

-If you still hit, max damage possible is calculated for secondary weapon, no damage bonus

-Damage is mitigated by EQ

-Crit check is made, and if you do crit, damage is multiplied by 1.7

-Double attack is checked, and if you pass that check, go back to step 3.

2.1 Seconds later (not hasted)

-Primary weapon swings.

-If you hit, mob gets to check their secondary defenses (parry, dodge, etc.)

-If you still hit, max damage possible is calculated for primary weapon, minus damage bonus

-Damage is mitigated by EQ

-Damage bonus is added

-Crit check is made, and if you do crit, damage is multiplied by 1.7

-Double attack is checked, and if you pass that check, previous few steps are repeated.



1.3 MORE seconds later

-Dual wield skill is checked.

-If you pass dual wield, then you get to swing secondary, otherwise wait for secondary weapon delay

-If you hit, mob gets to check their secondary defenses (parry, dodge, etc.)

-If you still hit, max damage possible is calculated for secondary weapon, no damage bonus

-Damage is mitigated by EQ

-Crit check is made, and if you do crit, damage is multiplied by 1.7

-Double attack is checked, and if you pass that check, go back to step 3.



0.8 MORE seconds later

-Primary weapon swings.

-If you hit, mob gets to check their secondary defenses (parry, dodge, etc.)

-If you still hit, max damage possible is calculated for primary weapon, minus damage bonus

-Damage is mitigated by EQ

-Damage bonus is added

-Crit check is made, and if you do crit, damage is multiplied by 1.7

-Double attack is checked, and if you pass that check, previous steps are repeated.



2.1 MORE seconds later

-Primary weapon swings.

-If you hit, mob gets to check their secondary defenses (parry, dodge, etc.)

-If you still hit, max damage possible is calculated for primary weapon, minus damage bonus

-Damage is mitigated by EQ

-Damage bonus is added

-Crit check is made, and if you do crit, damage is multiplied by 1.7

-Double attack is checked, and if you pass that check, previous steps are repeated.



0.5 MORE seconds later

-Dual wield skill is checked.

-If you pass dual wield, then you get to swing secondary, otherwise wait for secondary weapon delay

-If you hit, mob gets to check their secondary defenses (parry, dodge, etc.)

-If you still hit, max damage possible is calculated for secondary weapon, no damage bonus

-Damage is mitigated by EQ

-Crit check is made, and if you do crit, damage is multiplied by 1.7

-Double attack is checked, and if you pass that check, go back to step 3



1.6 MORE seconds later

-Primary weapon swings.

-If you hit, mob gets to check their secondary defenses (parry, dodge, etc.)

-If you still hit, max damage possible is calculated for primary weapon, minus damage bonus

-Damage is mitigated by EQ

-Damage bonus is added

-Crit check is made, and if you do crit, damage is multiplied by 1.7

-Double attack is checked, and if you pass that check, previous steps are repeated



And so on. Now, because the delays are different, you’ll notice that at one point the primary weapon will swing 2-4 times between secondary weapon swings. EVERY swing you have a chance to crit. Every swing you have a chance to proc. Every swing you have a chance to do damage.



Note that on each pass, EVEN IF YOU DON’T hit on the first swing, double attack is still checked so you may hit on the second pass. Quadding is when both weapons are due to swing, you pass dual wield checks and both double attack. You hit 4 times in one pass. A high-level melee character with two swords of the same delay will ‘quad’ a lot. It’s fun!

[Gorgetrapper]

Also another thing to point out about whether weapon damage is in game or not, when dual wielding the same weapon in both main and offhand, you will always do the same max damage with both regardless of what hand swings. For me with two SSOYs in my hands, I do a max of 36 with either hand with like 225 str and a max of 30 with like 170 str. This shows that of course str plays a part in how much damage you do per swing in pretty large increments, but that damage bonus is NOT in play for seperate hands.

This could mean that damage bonus IS in the game, just applied to both hands, or that it's NOT in the game, and that your damage is raised based on str, level and weapon/offense skill.

[Mardur]

Also another thing to point out about whether weapon damage is in game or not, when dual wielding the same weapon in both main and offhand, you will always do the same max damage with both regardless of what hand swings. For me with two SSOYs in my hands, I do a max of 36 with either hand with like 225 str and a max of 30 with like 170 str. This shows that of course str plays a part in how much damage you do per swing in pretty large increments, but that damage bonus is NOT in play for seperate hands.

This could mean that damage bonus IS in the game, just applied to both hands, or that it's NOT in the game, and that your damage is raised based on str, level and weapon/offense skill.

Damage bonus isn't working here, but I could have sworn it worked on other emus, thus I was assuming it worked on P99. Damage bonus really needs to be a priority to get fixed here, because it's one of those classic mechanics that really made EQ different than other games, a somewhat hidden mechanic (before it was displayed on the item) that makes certain weapons better than they seem at first (moss covered twig, etc.)

[Rhambuk]

Damage bonus isn't working here, but I could have sworn it worked on other emus, thus I was assuming it worked on P99. Damage bonus really needs to be a priority to get fixed here, because it's one of those classic mechanics that really made EQ different than other games, a somewhat hidden mechanic (before it was displayed on the item) that makes certain weapons better than they seem at first (moss covered twig, etc.)

It was working, I believe, for a while before they started the kunark beta and soon after was removed and dmg tables were changed. Bonus dmg wasn't until kunark anyway so this really is classic :p

[Wildas]

No, damage bonus was always in game.

[Gorgetrapper]

Damage bonus was always in game, they just never added it to the descriptions of the weapons until MUCH later.

[Rhambuk]

Damage bonus was always in game, they just never added it to the descriptions of the weapons until MUCH later.

< Corrected.

Why the recent nerf then?

[Gorgetrapper]

It was more than likely an unwanted side effect of the kunark beta testing and the patches/changes were implemented by accident.

[Harrison]

< Corrected.

Why the recent nerf then?

Because people equate anecdotal evidence with real evidence lol

[Estu]

DMG bonus is not in game, or you wouldn't be seeing people hitting for 1's.

People hit 2x as hard because dmg is calculated by some formula ( dont ask im fuckawful at math) including wpn dmg wpn skill and attk, When a melee gets a str buff attk goes up max hit goes up BUT you can still land a min hit of 1. Hence no bonus.

When I say "damage bonus", I mean the extra damage added to a weapon's max damage beyond just twice the weapon damage, based on things like STR and level. The fact that this extra damage is added to any weapon, regardless of delay, means that given a low-delay weapon with some ratio and a higher-delay weapon with an equal or somewhat better ratio, you want the low-delay weapon. The fact that max damage is more than twice weapon damage indicates that this damage bonus IS in fact in-game, and telling people to just use the best ratio weapon is misguided.

[Goryani]

When I say "damage bonus", I mean the extra damage added to a weapon's max damage beyond just twice the weapon damage, based on things like STR and level. The fact that this extra damage is added to any weapon, regardless of delay, means that given a low-delay weapon with some ratio and a higher-delay weapon with an equal or somewhat better ratio, you want the low-delay weapon. The fact that max damage is more than twice weapon damage indicates that this damage bonus IS in fact in-game, and telling people to just use the best ratio weapon is misguided.

Using the formula: Average_Slash = (2 * Weapon_Base) + Bonus_Modifier + STR Modifier (http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Game_Mechanics#Melee_Combat_and_Damage)

You are referring to the STR Modifier. Others in this thread are referring to the Bonus_Modifier. The Bonus_Modifier is given to every main hand hit. It's a constant damage which depends on your level (however, only melee classes receive the Bonus_Modifier).

If you want to test the existence of the Bonus_Modifier, you need to look at the minimum hit. If the Bonus_Modifier is in game, main hand minimum hit will be measurably higher than the secondary hand minimum hit even when using weapons with identical listed damage. If the Bonus_Modifier is in the game, a L50 main hand minimum damage will never ever ever ever ever ever be lower than 9.

I should add the STR_Modifier portion of the above formula is misleading. It implies the STR bonus is applied to every hit, when it's not. Well, a consistent STR bonus isn't applied to every hit. There is no bonus for a min hit and full bonus for a max hit. Hits in between are given a partial bonus proportional to how close to min/max hit they lay.

You are correct in stating the STR bonus needs to be taken into account. It does. However, it's considerably harder to properly do so. Those that do run their own parses to see their average hit against a particular mob. It's likely the best weapon against a low AC mob is the faster, lower ratio weapon while the best weapon against a high AC mob is the slower, better ratio weapon (in a game with the damage bonus not being applied!).

[azeth]

tl;dr: on P99 for the time being, you need to equip yourself with the best ratio weapons.

[Bodeanicus]

dual - adjective
1. of, pertaining to, or noting two.

duel - noun, verb
1. a prearranged combat between two persons, fought with deadly weapons according to an accepted code of procedure, especially to settle a private quarrel.

[Messianic]

dual - adjective
1. of, pertaining to, or noting two.

duel - noun, verb
1. a prearranged combat between two persons, fought with deadly weapons according to an accepted code of procedure, especially to settle a private quarrel.

I appreciate you.

[stormlord]

Well I'm trying to figure out how it works on the server and this didn't really answer my question.

HOW DOES dual wield work?

On live, as far as I know, the swings were independent. At high levels the max dual wield percentage was around 60 to 70 percent for non-monks. With the ambidexterity aa it would go up to 75 percent. For monks, it would jump up to 90 percent, the highest in the game. Dual wielding also generates more aggro since aggro-generation isn't based purely on dps - this is what I've heard. It also causes 2x the number of procs because two weapons instead of one are proccing. Basically, dual wielding is good for getting aggro and keeping ripostes down.

What is the minimal dual wield percentage and how does it change as you level?

Does dual wielding cause more ripostes? I'm fairly sure it does (i'm thinking of rampage/enrage? right now)

Steewarrior says that a warrior at level 60 (or was it 65) w/o ambidexterity had a dual wield percentage of 62%.

That's what I know. Or think I know.

I've always thought that it's perverse for one to be better than the other. Playing games is ONLY fun because of the choices I make. Generally, the more the merrier. Without choices a game is boring. So this idea that dual wielding or a 2hander is better than the other because of one thing is dumb to me. I prefer making choices, not focusing too much on raw numbers. DPS should not be the only concern in a game. Luckily, it hasn't been in EQ. For example, I recall clearly a tank switching to 2 handers during rampage/enrage to reduce ripostes and switching to a shield to survive the high dps monsters. They'd switch to their extra hate generation 1 handers to get aggro. There's a strategy to their actions.

I hate one-size-fits-all answers. Games that do that are too simplistic. If people don't want to make choices, then there needs to be an "autoplay" button so they can sit back and watch the football game at the same time.

[falkun]

No idea about the percentages, but a few of your comments are strange....

During enrage, the tank should discontinue ALL attacks, not "swap from 2 1H to a single 2H". Enrage causes every frontal attack to be RIPOSTED, meaning the tank will not get a hit in and will be receiving damage for every attempt he makes to attack.

Also, procs on Everquest are based on a PPM system, so a slow 2H will proc, on average, as many times as a fast 1H, however he will proc more often relative to the number of swings made for an equivalent time period. In the days of P99 and classic Everquest, it was typical for a warrior to wield two high aggro proccing weapons, due to the increased number of procs from two weapons over procs from 1 weapon for the increased aggro generation. It was not until PoP that ripostes became a large enough issue for some tanks to swap over to 1H+shield or 2H weapons (at least from my memory).

[Samoht]

It was not until PoP that ripostes became a large enough issue for some tanks to swap over to 1H+shield

that and the implementation of actually useful shields...

[Snaggles]

Well I'm trying to figure out how it works on the server and this didn't really answer my question.

HOW DOES dual wield work?


Pretty much the same on live. Based on skill and a magic percentage SOE scornfully never printed in a handbook.


On live, as far as I know, the swings were independent. At high levels the max dual wield percentage was around 60 to 70 percent for non-monks. With the ambidexterity aa it would go up to 75 percent. For monks, it would jump up to 90 percent, the highest in the game. Dual wielding also generates more aggro since aggro-generation isn't based purely on dps - this is what I've heard. It also causes 2x the number of procs because two weapons instead of one are proccing. Basically, dual wielding is good for getting aggro and keeping ripostes down.


AA's are irrelevant. It produces more aggro due to the number of hits, similar to distance to mob. The proc math depends on the weapon's own internal proc ratio and in the offhand it's about half as much, a slow 2hander doesn't proc all that much less than two 1handers. Dual Wield is horrible for keeping ripostes down and you also riposte for like 30 dmg instead of 150+. Hence why often a good 2hander is better for solo work than 2 excellent 1handers. If you have someone healing you it's aggro > all.


What is the minimal dual wield percentage and how does it change as you level?

Does dual wielding cause more ripostes? I'm fairly sure it does (i'm thinking of rampage/enrage? right now)

Steewarrior says that a warrior at level 60 (or was it 65) w/o ambidexterity had a dual wield percentage of 62%.

That's what I know. Or think I know.


Few have run real percentages for max level let alone "as you level", it shouldn't be a concern because your class hasn't blossomed yet. Dual-Wield in the mid 30's to about 50 runs ahead of 2handers significantly. Later ratio and damage bonuses tend to equalize the playing field. Your concern should be: Which does more damage? The answer to that bypasses the number of hits for your offhand.



I've always thought that it's perverse for one to be better than the other. Playing games is ONLY fun because of the choices I make. Generally, the more the merrier. Without choices a game is boring. So this idea that dual wielding or a 2hander is better than the other because of one thing is dumb to me. I prefer making choices, not focusing too much on raw numbers. DPS should not be the only concern in a game. Luckily, it hasn't been in EQ. For example, I recall clearly a tank switching to 2 handers during rampage/enrage to reduce ripostes and switching to a shield to survive the high dps monsters. They'd switch to their extra hate generation 1 handers to get aggro. There's a strategy to their actions.

I hate one-size-fits-all answers. Games that do that are too simplistic. If people don't want to make choices, then there needs to be an "autoplay" button so they can sit back and watch the football game at the same time.

Having the ability to go 2h or 1h is important, same as sword/board and 2hander for knights. Rangers and monks who don't utilize some great 2handers for certain situations are foolish. I would pack one for damage shield mobs at the least.

If you ever switch weapons while tanking an enraging mob you did something wrong. You should always stop attacking completely. Typically as a warrior you will be using 1handers because you're going for max taunt. If you could hold aggro with a 1h/shield or 2hander it would be a much better route but at Velious level it's impossible (for a warrior). Warriors have a plethora of gear available and should at leave have one pack FILLED with alternative gear at max level.