Necro vs Wizzy. Which brings more to a group?

[Vanessa]

So I am considering trying out either a Wizard or Necro and am a bit torn between the two. I'd like to have solo ability, but more importantly I want to group. I already know that Wizzy can quad kite for soloing and Necros can darkness/fear/pet etc. But I was wondering, what do the 2 classes bring to exp groups? Does one offer more than the other? I doubt I'll ever raid, so I am not too concerned with that.

[RDawg816]

A Necromancer is more versatile. He can heal, twitch, lull/fd pull, mezz (undead) and charm (undead) for even more dps. His dots aren't the most effective in groups but he still has a varied arsenal to offer.

A wizard can port, evac, and do burst damage. Burst can help when you need to burn something down quick, but he can't sustain that for long.

They both can root cc and snare.

If you're wanting to mainly group and have options to solo, most would recommend Necromancer over wizard. If you want a class that can make money also, wizard can port whereas Necromancer can farm things easier.

Edit: Also, a Necromancer can play with limited to no gear almost without consequence. A poorly geared wizard will be painful in groups as well as soloing.

[maskedmelon]

Sadly, Wizards are downright awful while necromancers are amazing for groups. A necro is one of the most useful classes to add to any group, small or large. Necro healing, charm and cc are grossly underrated by many ^^

[raato]

mezz (undead)

Necromancer mez works for everything up to level 55, not just undeads. Downside is that its very short duration (18s).

[RDawg816]

Necromancer mez works for everything up to level 55, not just undeads. Downside is that its very short duration (18s).
Ahhh, thanks. I should have proof-read that better. Necromancers are definitely better. :)

[Lhancelot]

Short answer is what everyone told you, necro is better than wizard for grouping.

My experience with necro is I get bored on them very fast. Even at low levels, they are quite strong soloing not including what they can do in a group.

Necro also has so many dimensions to their gameplay, which probably sounds contradicting to my first statement when I said I grow bored quickly on them... But, it's true. They can fear kite, they can charm undead, they can pet tank mobs, they can tank mobs themselves sometimes, they get lifetaps to heal when they need health, they basically can do a little bit of everything.

Necros are a great class and good players really can make them shine in groups with their very nice group abilities and utilities.

All that being said, I find them so strong I get bored on the class.

I actually made a wizard for the hell of it, and it's fricking hard soloing a lowbie wizard, even with decent gears on. I got him to lvl 12 so far, and it's miserable.

Just for comparison, on my necro which is 24 lvl, I have been killing yellows and even reds with the necro solo since lvl 8.

The wizard can kill a blue or white, then sits and has to med for 40-50% mana before pulling again.

My necro shreds through mobs rarely having to stop for more than a minute or two with mana regen and has much more efficient damage spells.

I want the wizard for porting, but can tell it's a much harder road to level than the necro. Until the wizard can quad, that is.

The worst thing about wizards is they have an awful reputation on this server as useless players who ninja-afk and bring little to a group, and so as a wizard you will struggle getting invites often times.

That reputation is well-deserved too, I have grouped with wizards and rarely have they shown any reason to want them. Even had one wizard that refused to root park mobs when we lacked a CC class, she said it wasted her mana and that root broke too much.

I can't even begin to tell you how many times a wizard was "medding" in a group, and was asked a question, only to answer it minutes later as if it had just been asked.

Yeah, they go afk a lot. Basically I know if I make a wizard I am going to be soloing it to 60.

[Pyrion]

We had such an afk wizard once in oasis. When we realized that she is afk (without saying so) we booted her. one minute later a crypt mummy came along... we were watching it slowly killing the wizard, much to our satisfaction.

Don't know, if i would play a wizard i would do everything possible to contradict the bad rep that they have. Instead you get players like that, magically attracted to the wizard class it seems.

[Lhancelot]

Instead you get players like that, magically attracted to the wizard class it seems.

Naturally they would magically be attracted to the wizard class. :p

[Jimjam]

@Lhancelot the sad truth is when soloing as a wizard for the first 15 levels a strong strategy gear for melee. Even meditating mana regen absolutely sucks. You're better off stacking hp/ac, grabbing a 1:2 ratio weapon, haste and casting illusion: monk using mana only when the situation dictates. Obviously this is not the play style someone rolling a wizard is really after!

@Pyrion wizards definitely great character for baby sitters, or for playing while doing housework/cleaning. Hit your spam nuke/afk macro and go change that nappy!

@op: Let me preface this by admitting I believe wizard is probably the weakest class there is for grouping. That said, I've found the best active role to play in a group is a ghetto CC. Loads of interrupt stuns, a 5 sec stun fairly early on, T-flux staff helps to pick out and off root adds on inc or even to aggro kite as cc. Also, wizard is fairly happy to sacrifice a spell slot for cancel magic.

The thing is, for all that, an enchanter or second cleric can do the above better. e.g mez, memblur, sooth, damageless stun, heal, rune.

Druids can do most of what a wizard does, but is at the disadvantage of not having a damage-less root so unlike the wizard they can't help by rooting mezzed adds.

The necromancer is kind of a enc/cleric hybrid and does almost everything you could want a caster to do and isn't hamstringed without an enchanter.

The only groups my wizard gets invited to are in the Hole (TL's and pick ups pretty handy) or PL groups (where aoe is handy).

[Lhancelot]

@Lhancelot the sad truth is when soloing as a wizard for the first 15 levels a strong strategy gear for melee. Even meditating mana regen absolutely sucks. You're better off stacking hp/ac, grabbing a 1:2 ratio weapon, haste and casting illusion: monk using mana only when the situation dictates. Obviously this is not the play style someone rolling a wizard is really after!

@Pyrion wizards definitely great character for baby sitters, or for playing while doing housework/cleaning. Hit your spam nuke/afk macro and go change that nappy!

@op: Let me preface this by admitting I believe wizard is probably the weakest class there is for grouping. That said, I've found the best active role to play in a group is a ghetto CC. Loads of interrupt stuns, a 5 sec stun fairly early on, T-flux staff helps to pick out and off root adds on inc or even to aggro kite as cc. Also, wizard is fairly happy to sacrifice a spell slot for cancel magic.

The thing is, for all that, an enchanter or second cleric can do the above better. e.g mez, memblur, sooth, damageless stun, heal, rune.

Druids can do most of what a wizard does, but is at the disadvantage of not having a damage-less root so unlike the wizard they can't help by rooting mezzed adds.

The necromancer is kind of a enc/cleric hybrid and does almost everything you could want a caster to do and isn't hamstringed without an enchanter.

The only groups my wizard gets invited to are in the Hole (TL's and pick ups pretty handy) or PL groups (where aoe is handy).

Yes. I actually did that, I got a smoldering brand and got every hp piece I could find. Many hp slotted items also have mana, so that worked out good too.

Even so, it's just a very inefficient class damagewise, especially as a lowbie that has a small mana pool and no true quad spells worth a crap.

I am going to play the wizard because it's challenging, and obviously I am a bit masochistic? :confused:

[Jimjam]

Smoldering brand is a good call. I used Lost Staff of the Scorned. It is something like 11/22 and sells for dirt cheap as it is wiz only with no stats. As a bonus it also is a clicky mana-less port to nek forest (city with bank and wizard trainer/spells, also just off EC) at later levels. I think I got mine for 20pp.

[Vallanor]

Wizards are great for soloing while getting things done around the house. Once you start quadding, you'll kill four mobs in about two minutes, then AFK med for ten minutes (do the dishes, clean the bathroom), then do it all again.

They're also great on raids. I've finally started using GamParse to see how my wizard stacks up on things like Vindi and Halls of Testing trash, and find myself in the top three dps most of the time.

If pulls happen too rapidly though, my efficiency drops pretty fast. For this reason, wizards are pretty bad in groups. On a fresh server where great ratio weapons and haste are hard to come by, wizard dps is fine in groups, but classic EQ itemization is so favorable to melee toons once these items become readily available. Stacking mana regen on a wizard doesn't have nearly the same impact as 100% haste and an uber ratio weapon on a melee toon. Clicky nukes help, but good ones aren't really attainable until level 60.

So... to answer the question, necromancer is much better in groups. They have sustained dps in the form of a pet, they can help pull with FD, they can mez, they can heal. Wizards are better left to soloing and raiding.

[Lhancelot]

One good thing about a wizard though, I doubt many classes can KS them at a named mob camp. :D

[Expediency]

Necros arent the first choice for a lot of groups but they do get opportunities. Wizards are highly discriminated against.

[Loke]

Wizards kind of suck all around imo. You'd think they would be okay since they can quad while LFG, and port to groups easily when they find one, but they're actually pretty horrible at soloing until the early 50s. Their pre-50s quad spells are horribly mana inefficient, and you'll definitely use basically all your mana pool per quad, and thats assuming you have decent gear and a big enough mana pool to actually finish the quad.

They're kind of awesome to play in groups, but that assumes you can actually find a group. Super lazy character to play in groups, even if you're actually contributing with CC and stuff. The only thing they're really good at in groups is burning down pulls that get a bit out of control / poorly timed local repops... but if you're in a decent group neither of those things should happen.

Necro is definitely better solo pre-50s, and arguably on par in the 50s. If played well they're almost always better in groups as well.

[Izmael]

Necro is a far better soloer than wizard post 50 in all or nearly all situations.

[thufir]

[Anything] vs Wizard, who brings more to a group, the answer is "Anything".

It is the sad truth that wizards are not well suited to XP groups in EverQuest. During the Kunark and especially Velious era, sustained DPS is king. Mobs get fatter and fatter and a wizard's best nuke becomes a smaller and smaller percentage of the mob's total HP. Even the largest mana pool is drained in short order from repeated nuking and then the wizard has to sit around for a long, long time.

On a raid, it's great, brings down targeted mobs faster. But wizards are very one-dimensional characters, and their chief dimension of burst damage in the form of nuking is the most inefficient way to spend your mana in the game.

On top of this, necromancers are a very good group class, highly underrated, with a lot of tricks. Hands down they bring more. It isn't even close, unfortunately for the wizard.

[skarlorn]

NEC hands down.

That said, I also find necromancer boring. It's got too much and is too strong. I've played wiz and nec to nine and I way prefer Wizz

[meanhappyguy]

I tend to like classes that don't have a lot of actions per minute. My two highest level characters are cleric and wizard. I don't tend to get burned out on a class where I can chat or afk if needed.

A wizard with clarity is pretty potent, but mostly at the lower levels--and then not any more potent in the nuking department than a cleric vs undead, or a magician, or a druid. I was amazed that my cleric could nuke undead as efficiently as my wizard nearly all the way to lvl 50... plus my cleric could CH!

Like Lhancelot, I have had a hard time sticking with my necro, for some reason I just get really bored. Necros are incredibly powerful, and there is a lot less downtime for a necro than for a wizard, but I tend to use that downtime on things outside of the game, which lets my focus and attention last a little longer in game, than when I am solely focusing on EQ.

Nothing new to say about wizzie vs necros in groups, I think that has pretty much been answered. My wizzie is almost to Seb-level, which is where I would think wizzies would start to shine. Nuke down those gating and casting mobs before they can get their spells off. Not really looking forward to the 10khp mobs, though! I think that is the only situation where a group would prefer a wizard over any other dps class, that or an AE group.

If you are a wizard who often gets non-AE groups, you've probably either lucked out, or have some very nice friends!

[skarlorn]

If you want to level a wiz you and get groups, join Auld Lang syne. We don't have any twinks so Wizz dps is decent

[Amyas]

necro

[Ravager]

A Wizard is a fine 6th slot for a group, but they are rarely played right. A Wizard who is paying attention to what is going on and uses the handful of tools at his disposal effectively is oil for the machine. DPS should never be their primary concern in a group and Wizards that only nuke and then afk med for 20 minutes are the reason they are hated in groups as much as they are.

A well timed nuke can send a mob into low hp flee mode, effectively cutting the fight in half, which means less time the mob spends wailing on the tank, and less need for heals. A well placed stun can stop a nuke or a heal in its tracks, cheaply in terms of mana vs what would other wise be spent on heals. Root can be used for prox aggro, getting a mob off of a cleric or chanter or ghetto cc in a pinch and snare keeps mobs from fleeing. Of course, one argues that other classes can do all of this too and it makes the Wizard superfluous, but the Wizard can free those classes to perform their other roles more effectively. Things run smoother when everyone has a specific role to play.

Sadly, the subtleties of the class are lost on most people and as a result their desirability isn't what it could be. So if you want to group and you're set on those two choices, Necromancer is the choice to make, however, they get passed over almost as often as Wizards because most people don't play Necros right in a group either (they insist on letting the pet tank, they waste mana dotting mobs that die in 30 seconds, they don't bother positioning their pets or turning off taunt, etc.)

[Teppler]

Necro's are even more effective when nuking in group situations because their mana regen is so much higher than Wizzies. Wizzies nukes are like 10% more efficient while necros mana regen is like twice as fast.

Wizards get stuns don't they? That's one tool that necros don't have.

[katrik]

I wouldn't even consider a wizard a grouping class. Necros are so much more useful in group situations. DPS wise they are complete crap. The only use they bring is for emergency situations where they can burn a mob super fast.

[thufir]

Nothing new to say about wizzie vs necros in groups, I think that has pretty much been answered. My wizzie is almost to Seb-level, which is where I would think wizzies would start to shine. Nuke down those gating and casting mobs before they can get their spells off. Not really looking forward to the 10khp mobs, though! I think that is the only situation where a group would prefer a wizard over any other dps class, that or an AE group.
Seb is actually where everyone eschews wizards entirely. Up until then you can occasionally get groups in dungeons around the world, but once you get to Seb people shun you completely. You can barely nuke down a single mob with most of your mana bar. Stuff's just too fat.

The main problems with wizards are:
1) other classes can nuke almost as well as you can
2) nuking is the most inefficient way to spend your mana, damage-wise
3) nuking is the thing you do best

There are times when these issues are not terribly relevant - sometimes you just have to take a mob down quickly and burning out your whole mana bar doesn't matter - but most of the time this makes for a very inefficient XP group member.

[Lhancelot]

Seb is actually where everyone eschews wizards entirely. Up until then you can occasionally get groups in dungeons around the world, but once you get to Seb people shun you completely. You can barely nuke down a single mob with most of your mana bar. Stuff's just too fat.

The main problems with wizards are:
1) other classes can nuke almost as well as you can
2) nuking is the most inefficient way to spend your mana, damage-wise
3) nuking is the thing you do best

There are times when these issues are not terribly relevant - sometimes you just have to take a mob down quickly and burning out your whole mana bar doesn't matter - but most of the time this makes for a very inefficient XP group member.

Wizards can do one other thing the best: Porting. I guess that's all they are good for, heh. Still going to try to level a wizard. Pain feels good.

[Vallanor]

Wizards can do one other thing the best: Porting. I guess that's all they are good for, heh. Still going to try to level a wizard. Pain feels good.

Leveling a mildly twinked wizard (jboots and some +mana items) was one of the easiest and most relaxing leveling experiences I've had in EQ. That includes a fungi-twinked ranger with haste and a Woodsman's Staff as well as an iksar necromancer. Their ability to solo up to the mid-50s quickly and painlessly should not be discounted. If you have a run speed buff, you can quad at level 8!

It may be lonely, but it's awfully efficient.

[lurk]

Basically the only time a wizard gets sustained dps above a shaman pet is with a rend robe. Probably not true but not far off.

[Vallanor]

Basically the only time a wizard gets sustained dps above a shaman pet is with a rend robe. Probably not true but not far off.

Incredibly sad, but probably true. I'm not sure what the maximum +mana regen you can get is, but let's say between medding and C2, GoB, PotG, and Bard song you regen 50 mana a tick at level 60. Using the 4:1 damage to mana ratio of your best spell (ice spear), your maximum sustained damage is 200 per med tick or 33.3 damage per second. This is worse than a decently equipped paladin with only worn haste. And this assumes no resists and maximum mana regen. It's even worse under average conditions.

Toss a clicky robe in the mix though, and things get waaay better. Just spamming a Velk robe gives you ~42 dps for zero mana (other than the med ticks you miss while casting). Pepper in an occasional ice spear on top of robe clicks and you are in way better shape sustained dps-wise. Groups would be well-advised to take on a robe-clicking wizard at end game, though in my experience most are still uninterested. Sad wizard face.

[Izmael]

Necro's are even more effective when nuking in group situations because their mana regen is so much higher than Wizzies. Wizzies nukes are like 10% more efficient while necros mana regen is like twice as fast.

Wizards get stuns don't they? That's one tool that necros don't have.

Screaming Terror, level 24 necro spell, is a 18 seconds stun (that will break to any damage but interrupts casting just fine).

[Rygar]

I have to say, Wizards I tend to prefer when grouping in the Hole. Evacs / Succor are great obviously, but the Hole has high level old world mobs (meaning 3-4k HP only). I had a group with (I think) Monk / Bard / Rogue / Wizard / Cleric / Enchanter.

The Wizard was amazing in this group. Mobs went into flee about 3 seconds after getting into camp, obviously the rogue / charmed backstab mob from chanter helps this, but the Wizard nuke essentially let the tank (me) take almost no damage. Enchanter stopped slowing except for golems. Cleric even loaded summoned nukes, it was an elemental fry fest! I didn't notice him AFK or excessively med either.

I had updated my Hole guide on the wiki to give wizards this shout out.

[Izmael]

But really, what counts is the person behind the screen. I'd rather take a wizzie who is a good chap fun to hang with and knows EQ to a decent extent than some great DPS class but who has a shit personality (we all know these kinds).

[Teppler]

Screaming Terror, level 24 necro spell, is a 18 seconds stun (that will break to any damage but interrupts casting just fine).


While mezz and stun have some overlap, I'd consider them different tools.

[Izmael]

They aren't exactly the same as mez will break to any damage while stun won't and maybe other little minor details, but other than that I don't know what's so different between stun and mez, but would be glad to learn. :)

[Jimjam]

I think mez is just a fragile long duration stun (with a chance to mem blur)? I think the difference is in practice, rather than any technical difference?

[Teppler]

They aren't exactly the same as mez will break to any damage while stun won't and maybe other little minor details, but other than that I don't know what's so different between stun and mez, but would be glad to learn. :)

If your group is beating on something, mezz will only be useful if its a caster about to cast something that will hurt. Stuns are good to use in more situations.

Mezz has a bit more use in cc situations. Like if you're overwhelmed with caster add(s).

Stun is great if your group wants to beat on something and take overall less punishment which makes everything else more efficient. Shaman/Enchanters don't have to slow as much, Clerics don't have to heal as much ect... Classes like that can, in turn, focus on DPS themselves and really turn your group into quick killing machines that take minimal damage.

[Dronuspk]

Necro's are the best class in the game. Period.

[Expediency]

Nothing new to say about wizzie vs necros in groups, I think that has pretty much been answered. My wizzie is almost to Seb-level, which is where I would think wizzies would start to shine. Nuke down those gating and casting mobs before they can get their spells off. Not really looking forward to the 10khp mobs, though! I think that is the only situation where a group would prefer a wizard over any other dps class, that or an AE group.

If you are a wizard who often gets non-AE groups, you've probably either lucked out, or have some very nice friends!

I hate to disappoint you but unless you have friends in seb willing to take you you will never ever get a pickup group in seb. Same goes for druids. Groups will just leave the slot open rather than take you. Theyd discuss taking the necro but hes not high priority either. I ran my druid main there several times before i accepted this.