EXP gain

[Goobles]

So... it's pretty obvious that I think the exp is pretty lame compared to how it was on Live...

How about you? And when is the last time you levelled from 1 on Live?

Just a reminder, they never increased exp gain or anything on Live. It's been the same way it was since day 1, it just got easier because of twinking.

[Kantan]

Lame as in too fast or too slow. it seems pretty fast to me.

[Dolalin]

I remember when they were attempting to nail down the exact numbers for the racial/class penalties, a series of tests were done. A level 1 of every class/race combo was created, and they counted how many level 1 rats it took to get them to level 2. They used that as a baseline.

For some reason, my memory says 12-14 normally, to 23 for troll/sk.

I think the post was on the EQ forums, back before the Gameplay board was wiped. So it's probably lost...

[Goobles]

I suppose they didn't check level 2+ for xp then /shrug

[Wenai]

In my opinion. Experience is far too fast currently. It is way faster than I ever remember on live. We are 22 days into launch. We have a few level 50s and countless people into their 30s. There is nothing wrong with the experience rate.

[Goobles]

I find it rediculous that solo, I get less than .5 blue per yellow con, and when I die I lose 3.5blue

[Harazzer]

Its slow or even to original from 1 to 15 or so, then it is faster than live by a lot.

[emubird]

In my opinion, experience earning rate is a bit faster than it was in 1999. I remember spending several days at each level, not just hours.

It certainly is not difficult to level on Project 1999, as proven by those of us who have already moved into the 40's and above.

I prefer that things be as classic as possible, so I, for one, would support making experience earning slower.

[Danth]

The question is why experience seems faster. I doubt its due to incorrect experience tables. Those are known. Rather, I suspect it has to do with what we fight. For my part, practically every group I join chain-pulls yellow- and red-con mobs, which I cannot recall happening with any regularity ten years ago. Add in a greater understanding of mechanics and knowledge of where to go for optimal leveling speed, and its understandable--even inevitable--that people will level much more quickly now than in days past.

I believe Goobles is mistaken with regards to experience gains on live. I recollect that experience gains have indeed been tweaked on several occasions.

I suspect there's something funky going on with blue-con experience at low levels on P1999. However, this thread doesn't seem concerned about that specific sub-issue. Rather, I get an impression that Goobles' memory of 'classic' Everquest may have grown hazy over the passage of years. Losing more experience to a death than a single yellow-con mob would grant is most definitely correct, for instance.

Danth

[Zithax]

In my opinion. Experience is far too fast currently. It is way faster than I ever remember on live. We are 22 days into launch. We have a few level 50s and countless people into their 30s. There is nothing wrong with the experience rate.

Seems more like to me everyone knows where to go and what to do and has already explored the game, so they don't have the same tally of "oh where does this lead to!" time in between straight exping.

[KilyenaMage]

I prefer that things be as classic as possible, so I, for one, would support making experience earning slower.

Sure that's great for you, you're already in the mid-40s.

[Reiker]

It's about right early on if not even a bit too slow for the first few, but yeah later on its faster than normal.

[Smashed]

Its faster than it was, even taking into account the fact that we know more about the game. Red cons seem to give too much xp, while blue cons seem to give way too little. Thats about the only complaint I have, but its minor. Also a lot of the spells on this server are a lot more powerful than they were in classic. Some spells are doing a lot more damage than they did in classic, etc. That certainly speeds things up.

Anyhow, if you dont think the xp rate on live was tweaked over time, then you must have not been playing long.

[Goobles]

The last time I played EQLive was on the progression server, and I stopped after I got Time flagged. Perhaps my memory is a tad hazy, however - I don't remember it taking so long to level from 1 to 8.

[Tananthalas]

It probably wasn't Goobles they changed the xp rates on live a long time ago now, so going from 1-10 in EQ is as easy as going 1 to 10 in WoW.

[paradox242]

There is also the matter of the spawn rate being much quicker than I remember. My primary point of reference are the derv camps in nro. Maybe my memory is just bad, but it seems they pop a lot faster than the 18-24 minute average in classic.

[Reiker]

Yeah on Progression I did 1-50 in about 4 days.

[aloronis]

the big change in exp is the lack of player's making a lot of room for a group in a zone. I remember in 99 on my server anyway. if you went into black burrow a group got to kill about 4 mob's a spawn. each little area of mob's was a camp.
Elite ledge,water room, Snake pit, Commander room, the area below the bridge, etc etc. on this server group's run around most the time and just fight evey thing they can. i know some servers may have done things another way.
But i know it's just people knowing where to go what to kill. Also where to get gear. i know i was nude at level 9 in live lol. in 99 i made patchwork at level 4ish and then got a set of leather at 5-6 then made my self a set of banded just a few levels later. then at level 10 on my war i was making plate and he has half a set of fine plate. It's because i know how to solo or duo with my wife even at these low level's and get cash.

[Slayn]

the big change in exp is the lack of player's making a lot of room for a group in a zone. I remember in 99 on my server anyway. if you went into black burrow a group got to kill about 4 mob's a spawn. each little area of mob's was a camp.
Elite ledge,water room, Snake pit, Commander room, the area below the bridge, etc etc. on this server group's run around most the time and just fight evey thing they can. i know some servers may have done things another way.
But i know it's just people knowing where to go what to kill. Also where to get gear. i know i was nude at level 9 in live lol. in 99 i made patchwork at level 4ish and then got a set of leather at 5-6 then made my self a set of banded just a few levels later. then at level 10 on my war i was making plate and he has half a set of fine plate. It's because i know how to solo or duo with my wife even at these low level's and get cash.

I agree with this. On live, there was way more downtime and competition for NPC's primarily due to a much larger population rather than actual experience gained. On live, for example, most of the popular leveling areas normally had several groups that claimed a named camp and would compete for blue trash mobs. This created larger downtimes for groups because experience-hungry players would get more desperate and careless with their pulls and attempt to pull more difficult and higher level mobs which often resulted in trains and wipes.

Furthermore, in classic, it was rare to find yourself free to pull whatever you want and set up a stable kill rotation. Personally, I have found it much more difficult in P1999 for a few reasons. For one, many spells do not work as they used to because of the amount of threat caused by them. Second, mobs seem to have either higher hit boxes or increased run speed across the board which makes kiting very difficult. And finally, and probably the most significant factor of my experience, is that there is a lack of high level players who sell twink weapons and gear for cheap, offer high level buffs for free or small donations (clarity, sow, SLN, etc.), or just power level friends and guildmates.

In many ways this game may seem easier than live because players have been playing MMO's for years now. For many, Everquest was their first MMO and may have appeared to be much more difficult. Although there are several differences and discrepancies on P1999, I think, after a few weeks of P1999, that the difficulty is close to par with live and that the experience gain is fine where it is at.

- Slayn

[Galahad]

The experience tables are off by one level on this server. Everyone saying that levels one to ten take longer than they should is correct. Technically every level takes longer than it should but you notice it more at the early levels. Level one for example takes seven times longer than it should, level two takes nearly three times as long, etc. This also accounts for the hell levels occuring one level earlier than they should.

In the grand scheme of things you require almost one more level than you would have needed in 1999 to get to level 50.

[Taluvill]

I agree with this. On live, there was way more downtime and competition for NPC's primarily due to a much larger population rather than actual experience gained. On live, for example, most of the popular leveling areas normally had several groups that claimed a named camp and would compete for blue trash mobs. This created larger downtimes for groups because experience-hungry players would get more desperate and careless with their pulls and attempt to pull more difficult and higher level mobs which often resulted in trains and wipes.

Furthermore, in classic, it was rare to find yourself free to pull whatever you want and set up a stable kill rotation. Personally, I have found it much more difficult in P1999 for a few reasons. For one, many spells do not work as they used to because of the amount of threat caused by them. Second, mobs seem to have either higher hit boxes or increased run speed across the board which makes kiting very difficult. And finally, and probably the most significant factor of my experience, is that there is a lack of high level players who sell twink weapons and gear for cheap, offer high level buffs for free or small donations (clarity, sow, SLN, etc.), or just power level friends and guildmates.

In many ways this game may seem easier than live because players have been playing MMO's for years now. For many, Everquest was their first MMO and may have appeared to be much more difficult. Although there are several differences and discrepancies on P1999, I think, after a few weeks of P1999, that the difficulty is close to par with live and that the experience gain is fine where it is at.

- Slayn

i 100% agree with everything he said and the post that he quoted said. It has much to do with our knowledge of MMO's and the amount of mobs we can kill her compared to live. i can remember, give or take, 5+ groups in BB at one time sitting at different spots and you'd be lucky as hell to get a snake pit group.

Furthermore, When my dad I started playing, the exploration factor was a big thing. we didn't know crap about antyign past the Queynos area and BB, so when we had to venture to run to freeport, it literally took us nights and days to do it because were scared shitless of dieing. I remember my dad about to crap his pants entering blackburrow at level 5-6. The game, because everyone knows everything about it, has somewhat lost its inital fear factor and non-knowledge of great exp spots.

Last thing --- Exp rates on live were definitely tweaked. Paludal Caverns is a GREAT example of this. Also, the experience rates here could be put down a tiny bit and raise blues up a hair.

Safe hunting guys.

[Chewybunny]

1999 was literally 10 years ago, and how many of you since then have become older, more mature, and with more responsibilities? Some of us graduated schools, found families, etc.

When you first logged on in EverQuest in 1999, you played with the notion of somewhat permanence that resulted in the wonder of a new world, of many places to explore. A lot of us had a lot, A LOT, more free time back then to dedicate to the grueling exp-grind-fest that EverQuest was.

But unfortunately the times have changed, and this isn't a live server, which has the guarantee of a major company behind it. It is after all, a free server, with a population peak of 250-300? How many of us can say with complete certainty that these servers will even last for more than a year? Who knows? I don't. I hope this server stays around for a while, but to be honest I don't want to raise my expectations too high.

A lot of people come here for the nostalgia feeling that they get when they play EverQuest classic. And it is a great feeling to have, believe me! But the harsh reality is, a lot of us are a lot more mature, with steady jobs, families, lives that we have to dedicate to outside of sitting in front of a computer for a good 8-12 hours at a time camping mobs to get the l33t lootz.

Saying that, the experience rate on this server is much to slow. BY FAR. Especially in the first few levels where a lot of the skills and spells a player's character get's are virtually useless (like shamans and druids).

Yes, there will be those of us who do, still, have a lot of time on their hands to dedicate to the never-ending grind fest.
Yes, there will be those of us who have the time to enjoy a week's worth of gaming time just to see your character progress from lv 1 - 5.
And Yes, a lot of people probably are sitting back and are probably enjoying the slow pace of things, but I do wonder, will this kind of attitude stay?

After playing EverQuest for 2 years, around 2001, I started realizing how much I am sick of the constant grind-fest and slow exp gain. Not to mention the amount of time one spent traveling the world just to get into a decent group, and then dedicate an entire saturday or sunday afternoon to playing.
I will be brutally honest when I say that I played EverQuest since it's near initial launch, until probably late 2004, and the highest character on live I ever got was 52, and that character was started in 2002. Though I did have a lot of different characters to mess around with.

I am not asking for insane exp bonus like on EZ. What I am asking is a consideration that things have changed since 1999, and that despite a lot of things that we wish were the same from back then, they aren't.
Exp, on this server should be 1x to 1.5x of normal rate, maximum.

[ojamajoe]

There are plenty of servers to play on if one wants faster experience. The number of people who choose to play on this one compared to those speaks for itself, I think.

[Smashed]

I think almost everyone misses the point of classic EQ honestly. These days mmorpgs are all about rushing to max level and then going to pvp, or raid, or whatever. People come to this server with this same mentality. "must get to the end game!". More than any other mmorpg, EQ was about *enjoying* the grind. It wasn't a speedbump to slow you down before you reach the endgame, it *was* the game. This is clearly evident by the relative lack of raid content.

In my opinion this might be the most important aspect of classic EQ. Since the leveling process *was* the game, they put a lot of effort into making the world feel alive. Every other mmorpg makes the leveling process sterile with cookie-cutter quests like "Go kill 15 tenacious hedgehogs" or "Go kill the unmemorable boss of this dungeon where every mob is the same basically and their level incrementally increases with the lowest ones at the front and the ones near the boss are a couple levels higher"

[emubird]

I think almost everyone misses the point of classic EQ honestly. These days mmorpgs are all about rushing to max level and then going to pvp, or raid, or whatever. People come to this server with this same mentality. "must get to the end game!". More than any other mmorpg, EQ was about *enjoying* the grind. It wasn't a speedbump to slow you down before you reach the endgame, it *was* the game. This is clearly evident by the relative lack of raid content.

In my opinion this might be the most important aspect of classic EQ. Since the leveling process *was* the game, they put a lot of effort into making the world feel alive. Every other mmorpg makes the leveling process sterile with cookie-cutter quests like "Go kill 15 tenacious hedgehogs" or "Go kill the unmemorable boss of this dungeon where every mob is the same basically and their level incrementally increases with the lowest ones at the front and the ones near the boss are a couple levels higher"

I agree with you on this Smashed.

[Duskoy]

Blue con mobs do seem to give a lot less experience then they usto in old EQ thats really the only difference I have seen so far

[Maldan]

I'll echo what others have said about blue xp however I've still had a wonderful time so I can't say that I care whether the xp gain is lame and after years of trying on new MMOs like trying on clothes that are too tight or itchy, I feel like I'm back home. Here's to hoping the server can stick around.

[girth]

Man I feel for the GM's having to put up with all this baby crap. Quit whining and play the game. If you don't want to, then don't.

[Dolalin]

I think XP gain is one of the core principles of a classic server, and should be as close to the original EQ as possible.

[Kitzen]

I think what adds to the toughness at those low levels is many folks are here, me included, chasing old EQ memories, some of which, maybe most, didn't happen in Freeport/Qeynos/GFay.

With that said, I know folks told me that post 12 it gets A LOT faster on this server than it was on live, which as some have mentioned may be nothing to do with numbers and more to do with skill, history, and the application there of :)

It all comes down to this is being offered up to us at no charge. I can appreciate the hard work that goes into this. I have read the source, back when I had this self-pain-inflicting-desire to create python bindings in place of perl (yeah I am one of those guys /grin) and I lost interest before getting half-way. It takes a good deal of these folks free time.

I am having fun, which is gud, meeting nice folks, which is gud, and I am keeping my chin up for lvl 12 and beyond :) My fondest memories are of Lake Rathetear; so, I am looking forward to my teens and beyond :)

[Goobles]

I think XP gain is one of the core principles of a classic server, and should be as close to the original EQ as possible.

Paineel isn't original EQ, neither were chat channels, or translocators, but are necessary, so can we quit bringing up the Original EQ argument, plz?

[girth]

Paineel isn't original EQ, neither were chat channels, or translocators, but are necessary, so can we quit bringing up the Original EQ argument, plz?

Can you stop being ignorant. How can you expect Original EQ NOT to be an argument on a classic server?

[tsonka]

It seems faster then what I remember

[Aija]

I answered no even though it seems a little slower to me but I am playing a XP penialized race or class or both so i think I am getting either 20% or 40% slower than the human monk I played in the original game. Either way, I should have answered "I don't care" because I'm just glad this game is back.

[Nytewind TP]

Well, they fixed the blue exp. Weeks ago going from 2-4 was pure horror.

[Yoite]

in my experiance, the exp gain is must faster. But i would contribute this to my knowledge of the game not the code. Back in 1999, i was a super noob, i died ALOT, i didn't know about super exp dungens like Sol A (i have never even been to Sol A until i played on Project 1999). Back in the day, during my 20s, i was in Lake Rathre, soloing getting crap exp, then dieing cause i was a dumb ass. Now, im getting insane exp in Sol A, chain pulling shit, getting great loot, crazy exp, not dieing (this is the key to fast exp gains!).

For me, i think the exp is too fast, so much that i created a alt to play around with.

[Goobles]

For example - I'm sitting here in an upper guk group... we have three level 24's, a level 28, and two level 25's.

After clearing for a rotation, the level 24's have gotten 2.5 blue each, the level 25's have gotten less than a full blue, and the level 28 doesn't know, he thinks between 1 and 2 blue.

Something is definitely wrong with how exp is divided.

[Goobles]

At this current point in time... we have been camping Ghoulbane for close to 10 hours....

We started, and the human cleric was half way through 24, and I was 3 blue into 25.. now hours and hours later, I am half a blue to 27, and the cleric is 1 blue to 27. Strange?

Oh and the paladin was 17 blue through 26 , now he is 8b into 27.

So I'm getting a little bit more xp than the Paladin, but a lot LESS than the cleric?

[Danth]

I amend my earlier post; while I still think the leveling speed feels high relative to my memory, it seems restricted to specific areas. Sol A, in particular, seems to have an extremely high experience modifier. I gain more experience for a blue kill there than a yellow or red in other dungeons I've been to. Perhaps someone made a typo and added a zero to the ZEM by accident? 10 hours in Guk, on the other hand, netted me experience gains at about the rate I expected.

------------------------------------------------------

That being said, there might be something funny going on with group XP division.

Goobles made a slight typo. I was 17 blue through 25 when we started, not 26. When we got finished, I was an orange and a half (8b) or so into 27 and Goobles was very nearly at exactly 27. In a group that spent approx. 10 hours fighting, his mage gained on me from 14 blues behind, to about 8.5 or 9 blues behind. The Cleric (my wife), who was a hair *farther* behind Goobles than he was behind me--pulled dead even with him by the end of the night. All three of us were in the same group fighting the same mobs.

This is interesting due to our classes. I play a Paladin, which should have a 40% penalty. Goobles' mage should have a 10% penalty, while the Cleric should have normal exp gain. The Cleric gained on the Mage at a faster rate than the Mage gained on the Paladin, even when she was equal level to the Mage (ie, when they were both 25 and 26). The particularly odd part was seeing Goobles make less experience than other INT casters, both higher- and lower- level than him.


Danth

[Excision Rottun]

The particularly odd part was seeing Goobles make less experience than other INT casters, both higher- and lower- level than him.

He is secretly an Iksar!

[Goobles]

How hurtful!

[Goobles]

Now, if all those "I don't care" folks had voted yes, it would be a better poll.

[Astro]

Goobles that's because some races/classes have exp penalties...

[Goobles]

Would you care to explain the difference between human cleric / human paladin / gnome mage then?

[Pyrocat]

Gnome mage has 10% penalty
Paladin has 40% penalty

[Goobles]

And human cleric is? Danth thinks 0%

It baffles myself, and Dranth how his wife's cleric could gain so much on me, and myself so little on Dranth, with 10% difference. Even if it were 15%, it wouldn't be as much.

[sirgijoe]

Xp rate is fine, as the user above me said, most of the speed factor comes in because everyone knows what to do, or where to go for the most part. I remember back when I first started playing, I was so excited because I got to like lvl 6 my first day playing, my first day of playing on project 1999 I got to lvl 4.

[Goobles]

We were in the same freaking group for 12 hours.