My ideal raid scene

[qvic]

Not saying this would please most or even some people. Just explaining what I would enjoy. I'm not concerned with logistics, this is perfect world scenario stuff for me. Maybe someone else will agree, most probably will not.

The main goal is to keep the current raid scene, while also increasing competition, and accessibility to some of my favorite parts of my favorite game.

All zones remain as is. But zones that have raid mobs in them can have instanced versions created. These instanced versions need some modifications, and restrictions to keep them interesting, competitive, and not just EQ easy mode.

- Instances are restricted to same guild only. No pugs allowed.
- Instances are locked to the characters that join within the first 15 minutes. No late arrivals, backup, parked alts for looting, etc.
- All loot is no-drop
- Trash mobs will respawn as normal, raid mobs will never respawn
- All trash mobs and non-raid named mobs have no quest/named drops. Just some plat and maybe mid tier gems. A full clear of the instance should yield 1k or so. It shouldn't be worth farming.
- Raid targets should drop 30-50% less loot than its open world version. For example if you were to get 6 items on the open world version you only get 2-3 items on the instanced version.
- 30 minutes after everyone leaves the zone the instances closes and a guildwide/accountwide lockout occurs regardless if you killed the raid target(s) or not. The lockout would be for X days where X is equal to the spawn time of the raid target(s). Maybe X should be twice the spawn time. Numbers can be adjusted.

The above rules are strictly in place to keep instances from being abused, farmed for non-raid target related quests, plat, etc. As well as keeping them less rewarding than their open world counterparts.

I enjoy strategy, skill, teamwork, and all around top level play in all games. In Everquest to me that is best displayed by low number kills. As such I want to incentive that. If your instance locks with 20 people in zone your % loot rate should be higher than another raid that brought more. If you can kill with 20 what it took others 100 to do you should be rewarded for that.

An option I always enjoy in other games is hardcore mode (1 life to live). You would have the choice to make your instance hardcore which will further increase the drop rate but once you leave the zone you can not re-enter, not even with a rez. When the instance closes, your corpse will be found near the zone in to the instance. The same way LDON handled corpses stuck in an instance. You can not regain the lost xp with a rez.

Finally, I want some competition so there would be leader boards to show off the best of the best. Who can kill each target with the lowest numbers? Or with the least amount of clerics, lowest total DPS, Lowest number + fastest time, etc. Each zone will have its own leader board, and the top 3 raids of each leader board will be given points. 1st = 4 points, 2nd = 2 points, 3rd = 1 point. Those with the most points server wide are granted a title. Example: Lets say the instanced zones are NToV, Veeshan's peak, and Sleeper's Tomb. "MrA" was part of the raid that is currently in 2nd at VP, 1st at NToV, and 1st at ST. MrA has 10 points and lets say that's the most points server wide. Then MrA and everyone else with 10 points gets rewarded a title. However its possible that a "MrsB" and company comes along and dethrones MrA's raid on NToV. This will drop MrA down to 8 points and raises MrsB to 10. MrA now loses his title, and MrsB steals the title from him. I really like the idea of the top power gamers earning something unique, but that can be stolen away by other determined players such as a title.

While far from a perfect solution. I will keep dreaming ...

[Rygar]

Dear God man... do you realize the FQ flame hell you've unleashed?!

[Swish]

You lost me after you started talking about instances. This is classic EQ here not DeyBreak Games

[StinkyGreenBud]

keep dreaming ...

[jarlerop]

I love classic EQ, but with the current raidscene, p99 isnt classic EQ anyways, and I must admit instances sound better and better.
What i didnt like was the leaderboards. Will there be a neon sign above the instance showing a leaderboard? Nothanks :)

[dbouya]

phinny and lockjaw have a dozen instances of nagafen and such, feel free to play there.

[Erati]

- Instances

stopped reading here

[Lhancelot]

I dipped my toes into the raid scene here, I found it awful personally. That being said, I realize many people love the raid scene.

My question is this, when the word "instances" is typed, why the sudden vitriol?

Can someone that raids now on P99 explain how instances are bad besides not being "classic"?

I want to hear some reasonable explanations why instances are bad and evil. Do tell.

***EDIT Not that it matters, instances will never happen on this server. I just want to hear the explanation behind the hatred for instances.

[snead]

with a guy named qvic.... he most have enjoyed GoD.... nothing to see here.

[qvic]

About playing on daybreaks servers here is what my idea and daybreaks servers have in common :

1)The name of the game being played.

That's it. The mechanics are different, zones/graphics/items/spells are different, the instances are 99% different. Daybreak instances have no penalties, options, competition, ladders, etc.

About the leaderboards it could be either a UI toggle much like they added on live for the PVP leaderboard. Or it could be like the inn/tavern message boards. It would be discrete and only those who care about it will notice it. For everyone else status quo.

About it not being classic FTE foot races, PBAE cap, variance on prevelious, lack of patch days and emergency patches (important for raid spawns), post Luclin UI, Item linking, can't drop coins, lvl requirement on epic, buying your epic from a merchant.

This server is closer to classic than any other server, but I hesitate to call it a classic server. Also this server is a better place for having some of these features

About my name I stopped raiding in PoP and never stepped foot into GoD. I heard its trash though.

So far the arguments against this kind of instancing are "I don't like it", "not classic", and "I didn't read it"

[Rygar]

I dipped my toes into the raid scene here, I found it awful personally. That being said, I realize many people love the raid scene.

My question is this, when the word "instances" is typed, why the sudden vitriol?

Can someone that raids now on P99 explain how instances are bad besides not being "classic"?

I want to hear some reasonable explanations why instances are bad and evil. Do tell.

***EDIT Not that it matters, instances will never happen on this server. I just want to hear the explanation behind the hatred for instances.

As someone who has played WoW I will say instances can be great, however it leads to a kind of 'care bear' server mentality. It is a very slippery slope. Part of the allure of classic EQ is rare high end items to get on your character, the delayed gratification of earning it. If you have all these instances it starts to feel like a hand out (to me).

I personally feel a big issue with the raid scene is how raid mobs are pulled and engaged in ToV / VP. The training mobs up and training mobs down / TL boxes etc are clever tactics that have been developed, but lets be honest, these are things that if kept unchecked in classic EQ would have been nerfed by the devs by either permarooting or changing game mechanics on those boss mobs / pull tactics.

Pulling a boss mob solo to entrance to engage makes a midnight batphone MUCH easier to do as opposed to clearing your way to a mob and trying to engage before repops mess you up. If you slow the process down, more content could open up for other competing guilds. Mobs may stay up longer if poopsockers can't log in and gank a mob in less than 30 minutes.

[skarlorn]

My ideal raid scene is hardcore faction PvP with city leaders as loot dropping bosses

[Baler]

scheduled slots that raid groups/guilds can submit for each month.

Anything not scheduled or failed to complete becomes anyone's fte.

[maskedmelon]

Decrease respawn times to half an hour and implement placeholders with a 1% or so spawn chance for named (assumes about 1/3 clear rate of repops). Could split raid zones into shards (public instances) to relieve congestion or disperse some of the targets to overland areas.

[Raev]

Why are you whining about instances when we just had a repop yesterday and it was awesome? A/A could only be in so many places at once, so the more casual guilds got out and about. Infernus got a shot at statue, CSG got Dain and Ikatiar, Rustle got Dozekar and some other NTOV stuff, FOH/Anonymous and Venerate both got a good bit of Kunark, and I personally found out that Zlexak can double backstab for 2250.

[Baler]

Decrease respawn times to half an hour and implement placeholders with a 1% or so spawn chance for named (assumes about 1/3 clear rate of repops). Could split raid zones into shards (public instances) to relieve congestion or disperse some of the targets to overland areas.

very not classic. :(

[maskedmelon]

very not classic. :(

Indeed ^^ But neither are foot races, variance, or killing dragons at the entrance to ToV. I'm just offering alternatives to proposed instances, which are being asked for in response to current non-classic implementation.

[Lhancelot]

Why are you whining about instances when we just had a repop yesterday and it was awesome? A/A could only be in so many places at once, so the more casual guilds got out and about. Infernus got a shot at statue, CSG got Dain and Ikatiar, Rustle got Dozekar and some other NTOV stuff, FOH/Anonymous and Venerate both got a good bit of Kunark, and I personally found out that Zlexak can double backstab for 2250.

Yeah, why are you filthy casuals whining about instances? See above ^^^.

An example of how casuals DO get to have a chance at named raid mobs!

Why do you need instances when you have such glorious opportunities as a shot at statue! And Dain! AND Ikiatar!!

Some other bottom feeding raid guilds even managed to get some unworthy-to-mention Kunark things, AND Raev learned about Zlexak's ability to backstab for 2250!

To be honest, I can't imagine anything more rewarding than what raid guilds other than A/A are already getting.

Raev clearly portrays just how well-rewarded the entire raid scene is outside of A and A.

Stop whining.

[snead]

Yeah, why are you filthy casuals whining about instances? See above ^^^.

An example of how casuals DO get to have a chance at named raid mobs!

Why do you need instances when you have such glorious opportunities as a shot at statue! And Dain! AND Ikiatar!!

Some other bottom feeding raid guilds even managed to get some unworthy-to-mention Kunark things, AND Raev learned about Zlexak's ability to backstab for 2250!

To be honest, I can't imagine anything more rewarding than what raid guilds other than A/A are already getting.

Raev clearly portrays just how well-rewarded the entire raid scene is outside of A and A.

Stop whining.

there's no need to be sarcastic. i think it's just more obvious on this server than live that other guilds don't clear the same content at the same time.

for example in the "#4 raiding guild on our server (yeah whatever you want to call it)" we weren't raiding qvic the day it came out. in fact the top two guilds caer cadarn / triality were clearing the content months before we even attempted to do qvic. we took a while to even get flagged for KT and finally were able to clear Ikkinz, working our way up to qvic. then by the time new content would be out the top end raiding guilds would move on to that and we'd be doing the old content they did. We didn't notice it then because we felt like we were progressing, while here we're stuck at the end.

For this server new content isn't being published faster than the rate that we can consume it. There's also too many people that play on this server to even fit everyone in ToV. If you were there last night with 211ish people trying to kill in NK it was a disconnect disaster.

[Raev]

All that sarcasm just makes you look salty. I would never defend Project 1999's system of poopsocking raid mobs but yesterday everyone had an equal shot; if you didn't do well it is no one's fault but your own. If your goal is to do instanced content in your own little sandbox on your own time, I suggest you roll on Phinny which will allow you to do precisely that.

[Lhancelot]

there's no need to be sarcastic. *snip*

Yeah sure. No need to be sarcastic when his post was dripping with pure condescension. Give me a break. :rolleyes:

[Raev]

There was nothing condescending at all about my repop post. Your reading comprehension and/or knowledge of Velious loot pinatas is lacking. Dozekar, Dain, and Statue (AOW) are three of the best in the game.

[Vibrate]

need cliff notes pls didnt read

[maskedmelon]

need cliff notes pls didnt read

OP: <instances>
Nerds: <no>
skarlorn: <fantastic idea>
nerds:<*crickets*>
melons(that's me):<well devised alternative solution>
raev:<casual hate>
lhancelot: <objections>
you: ;n;
me: <*hugs*>

[thufir]

got as far as the third paragraph of the original post before I stopped reading

OP, the EQ live progression servers are what you want, no need to raid here

[dbouya]

As someone who has played WoW I will say instances can be great, however it leads to a kind of 'care bear' server mentality. It is a very slippery slope. Part of the allure of classic EQ is rare high end items to get on your character, the delayed gratification of earning it. If you have all these instances it starts to feel like a hand out (to me).

I personally feel a big issue with the raid scene is how raid mobs are pulled and engaged in ToV / VP. The training mobs up and training mobs down / TL boxes etc are clever tactics that have been developed, but lets be honest, these are things that if kept unchecked in classic EQ would have been nerfed by the devs by either permarooting or changing game mechanics on those boss mobs / pull tactics.

Pulling a boss mob solo to entrance to engage makes a midnight batphone MUCH easier to do as opposed to clearing your way to a mob and trying to engage before repops mess you up. If you slow the process down, more content could open up for other competing guilds. Mobs may stay up longer if poopsockers can't log in and gank a mob in less than 30 minutes.

During classic velious and kunark raiding era 2000/2001 uh was it dreambo the gm? tarew marr? forget his name? anyways if both guilds showed up at the same time sometimes he just let us dps race each other, because when left unchecked we would just endlessly train each other or kite targets around in circles.

That said that was maybe 3or4 times total ever, because usually someone was clearly first and a gm showed up to watch and make sure no "tricks" were "tried"

[Nexii]

No instances. It breaks the immersion of a virtual world. There should be some competition and negotiation between guilds.

That being said the current 'poopsock, FTE, train to zone' system is not that great. I don't think too many people enjoy sitting at a zone line waiting to race. I'd rather see the following
- permarooted raid mobs
- raid mobs always social with their trash like Tunare
- much shorter raid spawn timers to compensate for increased trash clearing time
Guilds might try to monopolize certain bosses I guess, but I think they'd mix things up to gear everyone.

With GM quakes becoming more frequent we're sort of already halfway there (to shorter raid spawn timers)

[Landael]

My ideal raid scene is hardcore faction PvP with city leaders as loot dropping bosses

Ah if only Warhammer Online didn't have such shit server capacity ;)

[Rader]

I say instances, or make all raid zones PvP-enabled...

[tobolamr]

Back in the day, our server had ONE message board to run/schedule raids. And it was scheduled. If you were there without scheduling, you were out. Or, if the other group wanted, you could tag along.

I guess the real question is whether or not there's a lack of accessibility to the raid content or not? I don't know.