P99 Auctions is Closing

[Kowalski]

Effective immediately the auction feed is dead.


Full info here http://www.p99auctions.com/live

[Dreenk317]

That's really lame. These people worked really hard on a great feature and some asshats are data spamming it for no real reason other than being asshats it seems. And as a result this wonderful feature will be no more.

People make me sad.

[Ravager]

That's really lame. These people worked really hard on a great feature and some asshats are data spamming it for no real reason other than being asshats it seems. And as a result this wonderful feature will be no more.

People make me sad.
The word is asshole. Call them what they are.

[Lhancelot]

The word is asshole. Call them what they are.

Nah. The word is "people". Call them what they are.

[Ravager]

Nah. The word is "people". Call them what they are.
An asshole is something that shits on things. I stand by my word.

[Lhancelot]

An asshole is something that shits on things. I stand by my word.

Good point. I just feel whenever you add "people" to anything, chances are it is going to end badly.

[emp82]

Sorry to hear your service will not be around anymore. Know that it was appreciated while it was running.

If the person that did this is reading these threads, and it's likely they are, I'd like them to know they aren't worth the oxygen they breathe.

[Sallan]

This is certainly a shame. It was such a useful site to keep track of trades real time (similar to ahungry).

I hope it returns one day

[Tecmos Deception]

F

[Pokesan]

thank you for trying, sad but not surprising it turned out this way


http://i.imgur.com/aX5Dhxq.jpg

[skarlorn]

Join Auld Lang Syne and never use EC tunnel again

[Sacha]

Bummer. The live auction stream was really cool. Hope it can return some day. RIP Homey QQ

[Darkelfinlord]

wtb VS stone MQ and hate stone for ranger epic,This is Marksman on Red.

[goldlush]

Good job. Now you can be the king of East Commons and have some sort of relevance of success in your life. People are losers.

[GinnasP99]

weak

[titanshub]

Aww man, best of luck to you guys! You are hero's in my book. Thanks for running it for as long as you did.

[LenkoCambria]

This was a great addition to a great game. As always...an insignificant douchebag ruins a good thing for the rest of us.

To the P99Auction people, thanks for doing what you've done. You put a lot of time and effort into this game and community and I think most of us appreciated it.

[Lhancelot]

Bummer. The live auction stream was really cool. Hope it can return some day. RIP Homey QQ

Wonder if a live feed could be running with minimal attention? That would be nice to have available, even if prices could not be tracked.

Ah well, I see pros and cons to p99 Auctions. That being said, I appreciate the work the guys put into this site.

Thanks for your time, energy, and everything you did trying to keep the auction site running for those who really enjoyed it.

[Salahdin]

lol emulated EQ never ceases 2 amaze me @ the crowd that's involved with it ( the degenerates that is ).

[Gumbo]

This does suck since the prices on the Wiki pages never get updated.

It does make you wonder how players are going to determine prices for items now?

[Lhancelot]

This does suck since the prices on the Wiki pages never get updated.

It does make you wonder how players are going to determine prices for items now?

Only way you will know prices is if you spend some time in ec.

Just like any knowledge learned, you have to actually do it to really learn it.

I mean before Google, wiki, and p99 auctions site existed, that is.

[paulgiamatti]

You know what would be cool is if someone could catalog all of the current prices for items and host them somewhere for reference's sake. Although, I suppose you will probably be able to Internet Wayback the site once it's pulled.

[Brontus]

This is terrible news. I used to have the P99auction stream running all the time on my other monitor to check for spells and items that I was interested in purchasing. Now it's gone. The people who created and maintained this service did so because they cared about P1999.

P99auctions was an invaluable service and now it's gone because of one evil person.

I really hope the P1999 management do some investigating and find these selfish scumbags and take appropriate action with extreme prejudice.

[eadric]

i'm surprised it stayed up this long. props to the creator for their community service.

[Sirelk]

I'm gonna miss their site. It was so clean and easy to navigate.

Now I have to use Ahungry again? :P

[Zizba]

Cant we do anything to save it? pls this site is awsome i use it everyday i play !!

[paulgiamatti]

Now I have to use Ahungry again? :P

Hmm... advertising revenue... competition...

That's it, the tinfoil is coming out.

[elwing]

Deploying effort to kill p99auction means that it is probably some professional farmer/RMTer... I which p99auction would collaborate with p99 team to eradicate such people from our game...

[schnickusaurus]

THANK GOD IM GONNA GO BACK TO RESELLING

[Kotopes]

I'm no programmer but isn't it possible to tie live feed only to certain identified/trusted contributors and use client to server encryption, rejecting any other data?

[chromis]

Good job. Now you can be the king of East Commons and have some sort of relevance of success in your life. People are losers.

[elwing]

I'm no programmer but isn't it possible to tie live feed only to certain identified/trusted contributors and use client to server encryption, rejecting any other data?

definitely, it would be also wise to give IPs of dubious activities to P99 to monitor, as I suspect these people might be involved in RMT and such activities...

[Swish]

Sounds like Swish

I don't ever see myself going "full Grocer", I think its good to see the community have things like this...the server will be worse off for it.

Seems like the sky is falling in lately. Is it time for something <fresh>?

[Baler]

I say we band together and find the malicious attacker(s). Then take them out behind the barn.

site has it's flaws but it's so fking convenient.

I'm guessing the people behind p99auctions don't have the time or desire to recode everything to bulster it's encryption and or source of information.

---
Note: http://ahungry.com/eqauctions is not affiliated with the site that this subject is about.

---
definitely, it would be also wise to give IPs of dubious activities to P99 to monitor, as I suspect these people might be involved in RMT and such activities...
While I love the spirit of this post. IPs can be rotated, ISPs can be changed. It's one of the flaws in the 'anonymous' system that is the internet today, necessary evil.

---
THANK GOD IM GONNA GO BACK TO RESELLING
I hope you get cancer and your family has to watch you suffer for a long time.
---
It does make you wonder how players are going to determine prices for items now?
The same way they always have. Perception of item value.
Nothing on P99 (Blue or Red) has real value. Supply and Demand isn't even a thing on blue or red.

Everyone who is active could have fungi's for their main and there would still be a lot left over. Yet people still precieve it to be worth ~40k atm (6 months ago it was 60k, which it was precieved to be valued at for years)

[maskedmelon]

My condolences to the p99auctions team on their loss, but a huge thank you to the asshole responsible for ridding us of this non-classic feature.

The site was being heavily exploited by a handful of individuals using armies of alts to established their preferred prices on items.

The site's existence also diluted social interaction. Since th rise of p99auctions players have become less sociable and more unpleasant whenever encountering an offer (buy or sell) deviating from the price established by the spammers.

I used to have fun when I needed to dump my wares in EC. More recently I dread going there because of player attitudes associated with that site.

I am certain an alternative will rise in short order to fill the void, liberating players from the burden of choice.

For now though, good riddance.

[Lhancelot]

Seems like the sky is falling in lately.

Don't watch TV, and never read these forums if you want to remain a happy human being.

[heartbrand]

My condolences to the p99auctions team on their loss, but a huge thank you to the asshole responsible for ridding us of this non-classic feature.

The site was being heavily exploited by a handful of individuals using armies of alts to established their preferred prices on items.

The site's existence also diluted social interaction. Since th rise of p99auctions players have become less sociable and more unpleasant whenever encountering an offer (buy or sell) deviating from the price established by the spammers.

I used to have fun when I needed to dump my wares in EC. More recently I dread going there because of player attitudes associated with that site.

I am certain an alternative will rise in short order to fill the void, liberating players from the burden of choice.

For now though, good riddance.

You are the type of person I loathe in society.

[arsenalpow]

This is why p99 can't have nice things.

[Lhancelot]

My condolences to the p99auctions team on their loss, but a huge thank you to the asshole responsible for ridding us of this non-classic feature.

The site was being heavily exploited by a handful of individuals using armies of alts to established their preferred prices on items.

The site's existence also diluted social interaction. Since th rise of p99auctions players have become less sociable and more unpleasant whenever encountering an offer (buy or sell) deviating from the price established by the spammers.

I used to have fun when I needed to dump my wares in EC. More recently I dread going there because of player attitudes associated with that site.

I am certain an alternative will rise in short order to fill the void, liberating players from the burden of choice.

For now though, good riddance.

Not to go into it, you went into it deep enough... But of the pro and cons you nailed the cons of why I did not like the site.

It simply was too easy to manipulate by players in the game to put prices where they wanted them to be.

The idea behind the site was great, sadly when people can manipulate nice things to their advantage and to the detriment of others, it will be done.

[Spyder73]

This is why p99 can't have nice things.

You destroyed the rotation

[gildor]

I am going to tinfoil hat here and say nilbog and rogean did this. #notclassic ?

[maskedmelon]

You are the type of person I loathe in society.

And which type is that? The kind who thinks or the kind who speaks her mind? ^^ Fear not friend, most cede their intellectual sovereignty to the first school of thought that panders to their sense of self worth while demanding minimal investment. There are very few who care enough to exercise independent thought. ^^

[maskedmelon]

Not to go into it, you went into it deep enough... But of the pro and cons you nailed the cons of why I did not like the site.

It simply was too easy to manipulate by players in the game to put prices where they wanted them to be.

The idea behind the site was great, sadly when people can manipulate nice things to their advantage and to the detriment of others, it will be done.

Exactly ^^ It is nice to be able to share info or have somethings that make it easier to buy and sell, but p99auctions became just a tool for a few people to institute their own pricing schemes. It certainly made the market more efficient, but also fixed prices to whatever someone felt like /aucting once per day on a couple different toons.

[Fani]

What a great day for Sprawlz! and a sad day for the rest of the com...

[Tuurin]

Exactly ^^ It is nice to be able to share info or have somethings that make it easier to buy and sell, but p99auctions became just a tool for a few people to institute their own pricing schemes. It certainly made the market more efficient, but also fixed prices to whatever someone felt like /aucting once per day on a couple different toons.

You do realize that "price fixing" got much easier now, right? The EC bandits can now just run private parsers to do the exact same thing that p99 auctions did, but only for themselves. P99 auc made everything more transparent and made the buy/sell game much more difficult. Without it the tunnel rats have a huge advantage.

[maskedmelon]

You do realize that "price fixing" got much easier now, right? The EC bandits can now just run private parsers to do the exact same thing that p99 auctions did, but only for themselves. P99 auc made everything more transparent and made the buy/sell game much more difficult. Without it the tunnel rats have a huge advantage.

No they don't because they were just pumping the public logs full of whatever data they wanted you to have. Not that hard to log in a mule /auction once with a price you like, log off and do it again on another. Spend a couple minutes a day to build phony buy/sell histories of items you deal in.

Site also wasted a lot of people's time, because rather than just going to EC to pay/get what they felt was reasonable, people felt compelled to waste hours chasing phony prices established by some nerd counting what I said above, only to be undercut by the same nerd.

[LenkoCambria]

Site also wasted a lot of people's time, because rather than just going to EC to pay/get what they felt was reasonable, people felt compelled to waste hours chasing phony prices established by some nerd counting what I said above, only to be undercut by the same nerd.

I would argue that the site has saved me hours of wasted time. I can actually go play the game rather than sit for hours and wait in-zone for my desired item to pop up in EC, whatever the price.

[Sprawlz]

What a great day for Sprawlz! and a sad day for the rest of the com...

Actually, not really.

First, I'm retired from tunnelquesting. My goal was to make enough money to acquire a few items and that goal has been reached.

Second, p99auc - in my opinion - benefits tunnelquesters. I know I used it extensively to decide on the stance to take on any item that went through my hands.

Also, p99auc benefited tunnelquesters in another way. It kept items from losing value too fast. Any tunnelquester is facing the stock depreciation problem - to maximize your opportunity count, you need to maintain a healthy inventory of items, each of them slowly losing value to deflation.

p99auc helped slowing that deflation down (casuals wouldn't be selling their stuff cheap as they knew what it was worth).

I highly doubt someone went as far as launching a DDoS attack on the site just because they thought that would help them flip stuff in EC.

[Lhancelot]

I would argue that the site has saved me hours of wasted time. I can actually go play the game rather than sit for hours and wait in-zone for my desired item to pop up in EC, whatever the price.

That was the helpful part, or the pro of the site. You could watch a live feed while doing other things to watch EC.

[Baler]

Why it doesn't matter if this website goes away.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=27
http://www.project1999.com/forums/search.php

[arsenalpow]

It costs money to DDOS, which means someone has a financial incentive to crash the site. Spending money to DDOS might increase someone's RMT opportunities so it's a net gain overall.

[maskedmelon]

I would argue that the site has saved me hours of wasted time. I can actually go play the game rather than sit for hours and wait in-zone for my desired item to pop up in EC, whatever the price.

Of course, that is what I used it for too ^^ I'm not suggesting it was entirely without benefit, just that it was a net detriment. Ahungry and (as Baler points out) EC forum fills many of the voids p99auctions sought to fulfil without being as easily exploited.

[Lojik]

People who think that p99auctions was helping tunnelquesters...lol. Tunnelquesting is all about arbitrage/differing levels of information. Was the info on p99auctions 100% accurate 100% of the time? No, but this is was a great source of information that was lost, especially helpful for people who aren't in the tunnel all day monitoring prices.

Could people skew auctions by auctioning fake prices? Yeah, but from what I saw this wasn't too common. Even so, it would skew the avg price but I'd usually just look for the lowest price that someone was WTS at (If Canni IV had an avg price of 22k, but you saw auctions at 14k and up to 27k...you can figure out what's happening.) Usually the people trying to screw you don't advertise prices, and 99% of the time someone told me that the auction sites prices weren't accurate, they were trying to screw me. A sad day IMO

[Sprawlz]

People who think that p99auctions was helping tunnelquesters...lol. Tunnelquesting is all about arbitrage/differing levels of information.

I was a tunnelquester and I guarantee that p99auctions helped me a huge lot.

It was a great way to know exactly how much and which information about a trade a particular casual had, and work with that to your advantage.

[xKoopa]

This site made people think i was some kind of fatcat for not listing prices but i was trying to sell for whatever people offered :/

[Lojik]

I was a tunnelquester and I guarantee that p99auctions helped me a huge lot.

It was a great way to know exactly how much and which information about a trade a particular casual had, and work with that to your advantage.

What incentive would a tunnelquester have to say that the p99 auction site being down now helps them? None, thus I ain't buying the BS you're peddling.

[maskedmelon]

Could people skew auctions by auctioning fake prices? Yeah, but from what I saw this wasn't too common. Even so, it would skew the avg price but I'd usually just look for the lowest price that someone was WTS at (If Canni IV had an avg price of 22k, but you saw auctions at 14k and up to 27k...you can figure out what's happening.)

Creating margin isnt just about inflating prices ^^

[Lojik]

Creating margin is t just about inflating prices ^^

But you can do the same kind of smell test with prices that are too low. Again, it's just information that is lost, and it's felt especially hard by those who don't spend all day in the tunnel.

[Sprawlz]

What incentive would a tunnelquester have to say that the p99 auction site being down now helps them? None, thus I ain't buying the BS you're peddling.

Someone earlier on said it was a great day for me and a sad day for everyone else, implying that I did, in fact, attack p99auctions.com, which obviously triggered me.

Not sure of the point you're trying to make but I'm sure you're going to clarify it.

[maskedmelon]

But you can do the same kind of smell test with prices that are too low. Again, it's just information that is lost, and it's felt especially hard by those who don't spend all day in the tunnel.

Hmmm, so you are saying that if most of the prices are in a certain range, it is reasonable to throw out the outliers? Well it is a good thing a single person couldn't establish a desired average price by posting a single line of /auction from a few different characters... Oh wait ^^

[Lojik]

Someone earlier on said it was a great day for me and a sad day for everyone else, implying that I did, in fact, attack p99auctions.com, which obviously triggered me.

Not sure of the point you're trying to make but I'm sure you're going to clarify it.

The point I'm trying to make is that tunnelquesters live off differing levels of information, hoping that they have knowledge that others don't. It would be in their interest to disseminate false information (that the p99 site now being down hurts their chances of successfully tunnelquesting, when in fact it helps them.) Would you believe a used car salesman telling you "i'm not really making money off this car, I can't sell it any cheaper?"

As far as the ddos attacks, I wouldn't ever make baseless accusations without any kind of proof for something as major as that, it could have been you, greengrocer, rogean, nilbog, obama, whoever. Any other suspicions I have about you or other posters in this thread I'll keep to myself.

[Lojik]

Hmmm, so you are saying that if most of the prices are in a certain range, it is reasonable to throw out the outliers? Well it is a good thing a single person couldn't establish a desired average price by posting a single line of /auction from a few different characters... Oh wait ^^

Lol...like they can't do that without the auction site? At least with the auction site you could go back several weeks. You can have people do that over the course of minutes to lull people into false prices. Heck there are probably ec bots who have multiple characters logged in at the same time advertising false prices, and probably forum handles belonging to the same person doing the same thing. This wasn't something unique to the auction site.

[Sprawlz]

You have a perfectly valid opinion that tunnelquesters live off differing levels of information.

I have another opinion - tunnelquesters can live of that, and other things. Some of these other things are more important than differing levels of information.

For example, being in a hurry. You make money off someone who knows the price of their item, but wants to sell quick and get out of EC. They take a hit to save time. You buy cheap.

You make money off someone who wants an item really bad and you're the only one selling and they want it fast. Thy pay a premium to save time. You sell high.

My whole tunnelquesting career - 4 months - was with p99auctions being widely known and used by everyone. Had no problem making money.

[Lojik]

You have a perfectly valid opinion that tunnelquesters live off differing levels of information.

I have another opinion - tunnelquesters can live of that, and other things. Some of these other things are more important than differing levels of information.

For example, being in a hurry. You make money off someone who knows the price of their item, but wants to sell quick and get out of EC. They take a hit to save time. You buy cheap.

You make money off someone who wants an item really bad and you're the only one selling and they want it fast. Thy pay a premium to save time. You sell high.

My whole tunnelquesting career - 4 months - was with p99auctions being widely known and used by everyone. Had no problem making money.

So now that p99 auctions is down, people will no longer be in a hurry to sell stuff?

[Sprawlz]

So now that p99 auctions is down, people will no longer be in a hurry to sell stuff?

I never said they won't.

[Sprawlz]

My point is that *I PERSONALLY* find p99auctions helpful for making money in EC flipping stuff.

That's all.

[fadetree]

This is all silly anyway. Items don't have a 'correct price'. The price of an item has nothing to do with what people have recently auctioned it for.

On the buying side, if you see an item auctioned and you want it at that price, then buy it. If you think it's too expensive, then don't buy it. That's all there is to it.

On the selling side, if you are having trouble selling your item, lower the price. If you can sell it at your price, then don't lower it. If in your opinion it sells too fast, raise it.

There is no other determinant of value than what someone pays for something. The reason sellers like a pricing source is they can use it to browbeat the sellers by trying to insist there's some kind of known 'fair price'. There is no such thing.

[Vandil]

Sounds like TunnelQuest will become much harder.

[Twochain]

Has to be one of the resellers in EC. Look into it.

[Griffy]

/em Puts on old man cap
/say "This is why we can't have nice things"

[Juevento]

Isn't it obvious that the real culprit is the guy who ran ahungry? The guy put ads on his site to make some money off p99 and got his lunch eaten by the vastly superior p99 auctions site. Now he's back as the clear #1.

[Lhancelot]

Someone earlier on said it was a great day for me and a sad day for everyone else, implying that I did, in fact, attack p99auctions.com, which obviously triggered me.

Not sure of the point you're trying to make but I'm sure you're going to clarify it.

Just some guy making a joke using broken logic, implying that now that the honest,true prices won't be available via P99 auctions, you will make even more plats in the ec tunnel. NM it. :p

[Lhancelot]

Isn't it obvious that the real culprit is the guy who ran ahungry? The guy put ads on his site to make some money off p99 and got his lunch eaten by the vastly superior p99 auctions site. Now he's back as the clear #1.

Perhaps, Ahungry is just the unwilling beneficiary of p99 auctions demise? Just pure luck, it happens man. Take that hat off it's a bad look for you! :D

[paulgiamatti]

I guess I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was tristantio that did it, but only because the dude has done some pretty questionable things in the past.

[thufir]

the various points about information and lack thereof are on target.

as any trader knows, you want less information to be available to your opponents than what you have available to yourself.

p99auctions was a public aggregator site, with its information available to all. now that it is down everyone loses information, but those who had less information (traded less often) suffer most, since this information bloc represented a much larger percentage of their total knowledge than it did to an experienced tunnelquester. that this information could have been manipulated by others is not relevant. those same people will be able to manipulate information in their private trades more easily now, because this site isn't around to contradict them.

again this is not rocket science. it's how you trade and make money, by gaining informational advantages over others.

so, yes. a sad day for the non tunnel people. but hey, being a trader in this way is some classic shit. we'll learn to live with the middle men taking larger cuts / being cheated harder (depending on your perspective).

[Lhancelot]

the various points about information and lack thereof are on target.

as any trader knows, you want less information to be available to your opponents than what you have available to yourself.

p99auctions was a public aggregator site, with its information available to all. now that it is down everyone loses information, but those who had less information (traded less often) suffer most, since this information bloc represented a much larger percentage of their total knowledge than it did to an experienced tunnelquester. that this information could have been manipulated by others is not relevant. those same people will be able to manipulate information in their private trades more easily now, because this site isn't around to contradict them.

again this is not rocket science. it's how you trade and make money, by gaining informational advantages over others.

so, yes. a sad day for the non tunnel people. but hey, being a trader in this way is some classic shit. we'll learn to live with the middle men taking larger cuts / being cheated harder (depending on your perspective).

Yeah good point. Pretty much all of this post.

[Chrysus]

Isn't it obvious that the real culprit is the guy who ran ahungry? The guy put ads on his site to make some money off p99 and got his lunch eaten by the vastly superior p99 auctions site. Now he's back as the clear #1.

There is no proof of that, but it was my first thought too. The ahungry site is an important enough source of income for the creator that he attempts to block anyone that uses the site with an ad-blocker, and I'm sure the traffic entirely disappeared once p99auctions opened up.

Either way, it'll be a good case for Braknar, you know whoever invested in bringing down p99actions is doing so because they will benefit financially one way or another.

[Joyelle]

Tin foil stocks are through the roof today!

[Sage Truthbearer]

The claims that all of these people were all using P99auctions to inflate prices are extremely exaggerated. There were a number of safeguards that prevented this, and from personal experience I have a pretty good idea of the market value of a lot of items an P99auctions was mostly pretty accurate.

[paulgiamatti]

http://imgur.com/EvYVPZN.gif

[Lhancelot]

The claims that all of these people were all exploiting P99auctions to inflate prices are extremely exaggerated. I have played on P99 long enough that I have a pretty good idea of the market value of a lot of items. When I would compare that against listings on P99auctions, most of the time P99auctions was pretty accurate.

Maybe true, but it still happened.

Also, like Thufir said above, really the only people hurt by this in the game are people that never spend any time in the tunnel. These players won't know prices or have any site that tells them what they should pay or sell items for.

Shouldn't it be that way? Classic, right?

If you want to know prices in EC, then learn them like anyone else does who barters there.

If I don't raid it doesn't make sense for me to cry about not having access to raid gears. It's the same with barter prices in EC.

If you never barter in EC, then naturally you won't have knowledge of what an item is worth or not worth.

Sadly I think there's a nefarious reason as to why the P99 auction site was bombarded by useless information all for the obvious purpose of ruining it's success.

That's the worst thing about the site being pulled down. It should not have stopped due to being sabotaged by some pathetic, pixel-greedy nerds who probably were losing real money over it.

[Movember]

Well this sucks - it was a great service/idea.

[Aussie]

If anyone knows the team behind this site, please have them reach out to me via PM - might be able to work something out.

[tristantio]

What questionable thing have I done in the past? Removed the ability to use my site with ad blockers enabled for the period I was running ads to cover hosting?

If you haven't noticed, I have had the ads on my site disabled for the last year and a half or so (and provided this site/service that does what p99auctions did since around 2011, 5 years now).

Like I said, they probably had some motivation to do the site (start up venture, collecting user details etc.) and like the other clone sites (p99 maps) has copied something I put together with more glamor, then came and went.

As always, the tools I've put together for p99 are freely available for anyone to download, re-use, modify, do anything with (as all the site code has been open source on my github):

Auction site:
http://ahungry.com/eqauctions

Source (run your own auction server!):
https://github.com/ahungry/com.ahungry

Auction log uploader (point the url to your server and have friends upload their own logs):
https://github.com/ahungry/eqAuction

Realtime synchronized Map app (runs in local web browser) + p99 patching application:
https://github.com/ahungry/p99-patcher

Single user map application (no sync with other players) but in native sdl2:
https://github.com/ahungry/ahungry-map

Oh, and as typing this, I remember paulgiamatti is the guy who was guilded with the thief who ran off with my Fungi after a botched transfer when I trusted a random 50+ to assist me with it (at which time I had put out a call to action on my site condemning the aforementioned's guild).

[arsenalpow]

The person that put together p99auctions is a former BDA that's actually still active on p99, the dude wanted to do something nice for the server and scratch a programming itch that he had. There was nothing to be gathered or gained, it was merely an exercise to work with some new skills and do something nice for p99 in the process.

[tristantio]

The person that put together p99auctions is a former BDA that's actually still active on p99, the dude wanted to do something nice for the server and scratch a programming itch that he had. There was nothing to be gathered or gained, it was merely an exercise to work with some new skills and do something nice for p99 in the process.

Oh nice - I know he released the client source after my asking about it last time, does he plan to release the site source so someone else can take and extend it now?

[Sirelk]

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

WHAT DID YOU DO?!?!

You crazy sperg.

[pathius41]

Since we are all just tossing tinfoil hats around, I'm going to go out and blame GG for this!

[paulgiamatti]

Oh, and as typing this, I remember paulgiamatti is the guy who was guilded with the thief who ran off with my Fungi after a botched transfer when I trusted a random 50+ to assist me with it (at which time I had put out a call to action on my site condemning the aforementioned's guild).

Yeah, I mean that guy turned out to be a pathologically lying shitheel - even though my former guildmates probably don't agree with me - so I better understand your frustration in that moment today, but I still have a bit of a chip on my shoulder about it. Ah well, I'm guildless now and don't elf sim as seriously these days. I'm glad your site is still up - hope that doesn't change anytime soon.

[Nilstoniakrath]

Disappointing that a site gets taken down by DDOS nonsense, but as some have pointed out, p99 auctions was gamed a lot by those who understood how to play it. So on that level, good riddance.

[paulgiamatti]

The claims that all of these people were all using P99auctions to inflate prices are extremely exaggerated. There were a number of safeguards that prevented this, and from personal experience I have a pretty good idea of the market value of a lot of items an P99auctions was mostly pretty accurate.

This,

p99auctions was a public aggregator site, with its information available to all. now that it is down everyone loses information, but those who had less information (traded less often) suffer most, since this information bloc represented a much larger percentage of their total knowledge than it did to an experienced tunnelquester. that this information could have been manipulated by others is not relevant. those same people will be able to manipulate information in their private trades more easily now, because this site isn't around to contradict them.

and this.

The extent to which people were able to manipulate price averaging on the AH was far, far less than you're able to do so elsewhere, and people who claim otherwise are really bad at math. This is likely the doing of a prolific tunnelquester or tunnelquesters who deal in RMT. With accurate pricing information easy enough for a chimpanzee to access available to everyone, people flipping items and such lose their edge and profits drop.

[Quidello]

Can anyone show some evidence or a case of people manipulating prices on the site?

[AndyErik]

Hello,

I've been a professional C# developer since its inception in 2002 and have been writing software for 17 years. I wrote two bug reports to P99auctions.com yesterday in an attempt to fix this issue for them. I also wrote an email to support@p99auctions.com. Neither of these requests for contact have been returned. If the owners of the site are reading this thread please PM me or reply to my requests so we can plug this hole asap.

It's a relatively routine issue that can be resolved with little headache.

- Throxis

[fugazi]

Hello,

I've been a professional C# developer since its inception in 2002 and have been writing software for 17 years. I wrote two bug reports to P99auctions.com yesterday in an attempt to fix this issue for them. I also wrote an email to support@p99auctions.com. Neither of these requests for contact have been returned. If the owners of the site are reading this thread please PM me or reply to my requests so we can plug this hole asap.

It's a relatively routine issue that can be resolved with little headache.

- Throxis

http://i.imgur.com/SO0g7nd.gif

[Lhancelot]

Can anyone show some evidence or a case of people manipulating prices on the site?

Let me explain how easy it was to manipulate P99 auction site. If an item had not been sold for a month alone, if I took that item and priced it at 50k, let's say, a cloth cap... That cloth cap's average price for the last month would read as 50k.

If that doesn't show you the ease to which P99's prices could be manipulated, then I can attest to my personal experience in learning how it worked.

I was stubborn about not dropping price on one particular item. What I noticed was over a course of a few weeks, as soon as I changed the item to another alt to try to sell in EC, the price for monthly average raised slightly everytime I moved the item to an alt to try to sell it.

I then understood that if I could alter the monthly price just by selling the same item on different toons over a multiple weeks time, imagine if I sold the item across many alts and sat in EC all day long, every day? I could easily alter the price by a lot, either up or down simply by changing toons I sold the item on. In essence EC tunnelquesters do this, they also have different alts they sell on. Don't be naieve and think they do not.

Once I understood that, I then started to notice people auctioning items by typing out the name, no link of the item provided. Innocently selling an item on an alt, and didn't have time to get it's link or the actual item, right? No.

When I went to P99 auction site, and looked for an item I wanted to check a price on, I found that in the history of that item being sold were this item being auctioned using the same writing style but being sold by many different toon names.

The price was extremely high, and many times just typed into the /auc. That's because P99 auction gleaned price average from the item's name, whether it was typed, linked, abbreviated, it didn't matter. So this one guy was typing the name in, at a stupid high price on many toons to manipulate the average price. It was clear to me.

Once I understood this was being done rampantly, I then understood that there was a P99 auction site problem, and that prices were being pushed up by people who had known what took me many months to learn and understand.

How long has it been going on? I have no idea, I was off game for 2-3 years, and P99 auction site did not exist when I had left. I do know since I been back, this has been going on well before I realized it about a month ago.

Anyway, P99 auction site was a wonderful idea, but it was just way too easy to manipulate.

Anyone that thinks the manipulation of P99 auction site is grossly exaggerated by it's detractors are naive, or don't want to believe the truth because anyone that has tunnelquested for any extended periods of time would learn this on their own as I did.

[QFuzzle]

Hello,

I've been a professional C# developer since its inception in 2002 and have been writing software for 17 years. I wrote two bug reports to P99auctions.com yesterday in an attempt to fix this issue for them. I also wrote an email to support@p99auctions.com. Neither of these requests for contact have been returned. If the owners of the site are reading this thread please PM me or reply to my requests so we can plug this hole asap.

It's a relatively routine issue that can be resolved with little headache.

- Throxis

Yes! Somebody's at least trying to fix what's happening here. Thank you!

[paulgiamatti]

I'd hardly call that rampant manipulation. There's a good chance the people doing that - if they even were, I've yet to see an actual example - are the same people RMTing and flooding the site with data because their tunnelquest game is suffering.

People saying the AH is a net harm versus a net good has got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

[maskedmelon]

I'd hardly call that rampant manipulation. There's a good chance the people doing that - if they even were, I've yet to see an actual example - are the same people RMTing and flooding the site with data because their tunnelquest game is suffering.

People saying the AH is a net harm versus a net good has got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

Lance explained it perfectly, Paul^^ The thing is, once someone pushed a price to where they wanted, the community kept it there (until pushed/pulled again) because they would just price around the mean, what they perceived as a "fair" price. And pushing prices didn't take much of a time investment. You onky needed to auction once to get an entry on the site. 15 minutes or so a day with a set of macros and you could be pushing/pulling prices on dozens of items however you liked. I wouldn't feel bad for not noticing. Most people didn't.

I don't really care how much money people make. I pay what I want and sell for what I want. I just think it is an awful outcome when someone establishes these phony price points that nobody is willing to pay, forcing unassuming players to waste their time hoping for some purple relief to the green sea of EC, or the opposite: establishing lower price points to suck up all of a particular item for later resale (following a push) when other players could be using the item.

There's nothing wrong with reselling, but p99auctions severely retarded the process making resellers sit on wares for longer periods of time because they had to spend a bit more time manipulating prices rather than just serving as an intermediary to minimize players' time in EC. Meanwhile you have other players largely unaccustomed to the market being forced to spend more time in EC to move their wares, getting annoyed and growing belligerent because they find themselves unable to transact at the published "fair" prices for their items.

EC is full of assholes because of p99auctions.

[kotton05]

Had someone try to tell me my dragon hero bracer was worth 500pp because of this site.

But on the other hand I loved this site since I could hunt down sellers and buyers then negotiate since I knew some prices were askew. Gonna miss this resource.

[paulgiamatti]

I mean, that's what price averaging is: people pushing and pulling prices to what they think the item is or want the item to be valued at. No one is forcing anyone to read the price averages - no one is deeming the site an authority on prices. And if it is, that's because it's accurate. You guys sitting here waxing conspiratorial about this big AH price mafia is just hilarious.

My experience has been the absolute, unequivocal opposite - because of the AH I spent less time in EC, I sold more stuff with less effort, and I dealt with less hagglers. In fact, the general tone in the tunnel as of late seems more friendly than I've ever seen it.

Maybe the AH doesn't suit your tunnelstyle. Maybe it's polarizing in some way - maybe it caters to a certain kind of tunneler and frustrates others. Either way, I have nothing but contempt for people saying it's detrimental to the server. That's a level of paranoia and masochism that goes far beyond saying it's imperfect.

[Lhancelot]

I'd hardly call that rampant manipulation. There's a good chance the people doing that - if they even were, I've yet to see an actual example - are the same people RMTing and flooding the site with data because their tunnelquest game is suffering.

People saying the AH is a net harm versus a net good has got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

Personally I would say the pros are about even with the cons concerning P99 auction coming down.

I see the good things, but also recognize the bad things that came with it. Basically it will not hurt me or help me that the site is coming down.

The only thing that sucks about it coming down is that it was destroyed by DDOS-type stuff.

That indicates that more was involved than simple EC nerds trying to make an extra few hundred plats more on an item.

To me this indicates that real money was being affected in some manner, so some higher tier elf sim nerds decided to use more drastic measures to topple P99 auctions.

[kaev]

EC is full of assholes because of p99auctions.

LOL

More like: P99 is full of assholes, and p99auctions manipulation and ddos victimization reflect this. Also, yours doesn't stink any less than anybody else's despite your apparent belief to the contrary.

[skarlorn]

LOL

More like: P99 is full of assholes, and p99auctions manipulation and ddos victimization reflect this. Also, yours doesn't stink any less than anybody else's despite your apparent belief to the contrary.

got proof?

[Fettsack]

I really liked the site (as one not willing to spend hours sitting at the tunnel). It was a great help for me - sad that it ended this way.

Hopefully the owner and programmer will listen to the guy here who offered help to fix things at the backend.

Big thanks from me to the owner of the site here for all the work you've been put into this and I am sorry to see this project (hopefully not!) stoped.

[lonmoer]

Oh, and as typing this, I remember paulgiamatti is the guy who was guilded with the thief who ran off with my Fungi after a botched transfer when I trusted a random 50+ to assist me with it (at which time I had put out a call to action on my site condemning the aforementioned's guild).

Paulgiamatti and that whole Azure Guard officer crew are a bunch of greedy shysters.

[demokatt]

It shouldn't be so hard to have one client running on a computer constantly feeding auction logs to the webserver? It doesn't have to be people attributing, instead setup a single computer feeding the website. This should be easy to do without ever letting evil people visiting the website be able to find out the ipadress of where the feeding client is?

[paulgiamatti]

The tone I'm getting from P99 Auctions is that they just don't want to have to deal with it, which is understandable, but I hope they change their mind(s) and take Throxis up on his offer.

We could try some more defensive coding strategies and hope the spammers give up as well...but, this is an elf sim, not a job.

And yeah they could probably prevent the issue by just shutting down the ability for players to upload logs altogether, and setting up a system with their own client on its own IP address, but I'm sure that'd be way more work and way more maintenance than changing code and there'd be significant drawbacks like more downtime, etc.

[maskedmelon]

LOL

More like: P99 is full of assholes, and p99auctions manipulation and ddos victimization reflect this. Also, yours doesn't stink any less than anybody else's despite your apparent belief to the contrary.

What nasty things to say. This community has always been one of the kindest, most welcoming and easily penetrated of any mmo. Your assessment is not only untrue, it is unfair. Most players would drop what they were doing, whatever it was, to lend a hand however they could.

Most would (and do) give away items to new beginners rather than spend their hours sullying their souls in the tunnel. And I would say that even within EC, most are simply there to transact by the accepted rules of fair play and move on. They are not there to scour specific log entries or weigh the merit of every damned unrelated auction. They just want to sell their stuff and go back to playing the gam with their friends and family, making new acquaintances and helping one another bash baddies ^^ They are no more to blame for their unwitting exploitation than p99auctions is for its.

[Baler]

This community has always been one of the kindest, most welcoming and easily penetrated of any mmo.

I'm sorry but that's not P99 blue. When I first started playing seriously I began to notice how toxic and vile people were here. Then as time went on it grew on me and it's transformed me from a wide eyed noob to a sinister vile forum quester.

I've met several high level players in my time here that say the same thing about the community here. I wish I had logs for all the conversations with them about the subject. Would be more clear then me trying to explain now.

Then there is the crew of goblins who forum quest. *shivers* I'm not sure how between point A and point B the server picked up so many weirdos. At this point I opened a door I wish I never did and just want a way out.

Everquest is addicting however. Questing is addictive.

Red community is even worse, not going to lie.
And of course there are good people here too.

[Lhancelot]

When I first started playing seriously I began to notice how toxic and vile people were here. Then as time went on it grew on me and it's transformed me from a wide eyed noob to a sinister vile forum quester.


I have had the opposite experience on P99 Blue. It started out great, friendly folk, helping with quests, free ports when I was a lowbie, just overall great experience as I leveled up.

Then I hit 50+.

I joined 2 different raid guilds over a 3 year span. Same shit, different guild. Greedy pixel fiending nerds who happily would screw over "fringe" newer members, or people not kissing the asses/buddying up with the core group that ran the guild.

I went back to my original playing style after leaving the raiding guild, and guess what? No stress, pleasant experiences on P99 again.

I have no doubt the same type of greedy, pixel fiending nerds that run the majority of the raiding guilds also hit P99 with DDOS attacks because only that kind of player does anything it takes to gain more pixels, no matter how their activities disrupt and ruin other gamer's experiences.

[Baler]

I'm not sure if english is your first language. But what you described is not the opposite experience.

Also I can't believe that joining a guild made your experience any worse then playing without a guild. Maybe it was a toxic guild or just not the right fit for you.
On top of that those people in that guild will affect you and people you group with whether you were in that guild or not.

[paulgiamatti]

The actual in-game community on P99 sans the raid scene is tolerable at best; the forums are a cesspool.

And yeah I mean I have to take what you're saying about these guilds with a grain of salt given how much I disagree with you on a number of things. There are douchebags in every guild, but if your attitude about intraofficer elitism is anything like your attitude about P99 Auctions, I'm gonna guess it wasn't as bad as you're making it sound.

[Lhancelot]

I'm not sure if english is your first language. But what you described is not the opposite experience.

Also I can't believe that joining a guild made your experience any worse then playing without a guild. Maybe it was a toxic guild or just not the right fit for you.
On top of that those people in that guild will affect you and people you group with whether you were in that guild or not.

Interesting.

I am not in that guild, and they have had zero affect on me since leaving them. I am sure you know my experiences and understand my position better than I do, though.

Large raid guilds on this server all share the same composition from what I can tell.

They have a core group that operate and run the guild, and a zerg of followers that do their bidding like pixel gathering slaves.

The pixels gathered are distributed in a way that core members and butt-buddies of core members have first dibs on such items, always.

"Fringe" members, or members who are anonymous nobodies all gather around hoping some pixels slip down to them after the core group devours what they deem they need for themselves, or their 5 other alts.

Eventually after months and even years, even fringe members will get leftover pixels.

They are content with this process because they have a raid guild tag that shows how superior they are to those on the game without such a tag, also it's the only way they can get high end pixels.

As long as they put in a couple years of soaking up DKP they too will finally have raid gear that a core member happens to have on 5 or more alts, and they too will have finally reached pixel heaven that non-raiders will never have a chance of reaching.

I realize it's a matter of perspective, honestly. However, This is my perspective on it.


Since leaving two different raid guilds over a span of a few years I am back to enjoying the game again, playing it as I like without having to worry about raiding and the shitty process involved with it.

Oh, and my interaction has improved with players in the game because my activities are not revolving around raiding and running from one raid target to another every day.

Now I can leisurely chat any time I am on with players about faction grinding, lesser known quests, and I can level my lowbie alts in peace now.

Simply put, my time in the game is relaxing and fun again.

[Lhancelot]

The actual in-game community on P99 sans the raid scene is tolerable at best; the forums are a cesspool.

And yeah I mean I have to take what you're saying about these guilds with a grain of salt given how much I disagree with you on a number of things. There are douchebags in every guild, but if your attitude about intraofficer elitism is anything like your attitude about P99 Auctions, I'm gonna guess it wasn't as bad as you're making it sound.

Well you are taking what I write about P99 auctions and only reflecting on what you want to disagree with. That's fine.

My take on P99 auctions is that it had pros and cons. I never said it was awful. I simply explained the good and bad of it.

The fact is that it was manipulated easily by ingame players.

Another fact is it provided a very convenient way to watch a live stream of ec, and it did provide some baseline average price on all items auctioned.

Whether that price was always a fair or accurate number is up for debate.

[Lojik]

Well you are taking what I write about P99 auctions and only reflecting on what you want to disagree with. That's fine.

My take on P99 auctions is that it had pros and cons. I never said it was awful. I simply explained the good and bad of it.

The fact is that it was manipulated easily by ingame players.

Another fact is it provided a very convenient way to watch a live stream of ec, and it did provide some baseline average price on all items auctioned.

Whether that price was always a fair or accurate number is up for debate.

Not to sound condescending, but judging by your join date you joined the server after p99auctions had already been around for a while. How can you really have a sense of how p99 auctions changed the server? Before p99 auctions buying/selling in EC you had assholes already. Here are a few random things I have noticed peddling a lot of farmed goods in EC before and after p99 auctions began.

1) It seems like the site facilitated trade more easily: people on both ends were pretty confident with prices being around what they expected, particularly with commonly sold goods.

2) Before p99 auctions, if I auctioned something at 3k, even if it was below what I almost always saw it for sale for in ec, I'd get tells for buying at 2.5k and reject. These people would almost always insist that 2.5k was fair price, or they couldn't afford more, or their dog died so please help them out etc. After p99 auctions, I'd say 75% of the time I reject a lowball offer they just say "fine I'll buy at 3k."

3) Prices seem to have a much lower variance: Schnickusaurus even made a thread about how he can only turn 1k profit buying/selling on Fungis and he was going to "retire" from this market.

[Tuurin]

Basic economics: Traders rely on price variation (buy low, sell high). If everyone pretty much agrees on a price for an item (historical and average price data provided by auction site) then trading becomes much less lucrative, since nobody really sells for less than value and nobody really buys for more than the value.

But if there's no set price (no auction site, no historical data) then it's the wild west again and those with more information (tunnelquesters) have a big advantage.

[Lhancelot]

Not to sound condescending, but judging by your join date you joined the server after p99auctions had already been around for a while. How can you really have a sense of how p99 auctions changed the server? Before p99 auctions buying/selling in EC you had assholes already. Here are a few random things I have noticed peddling a lot of farmed goods in EC before and after p99 auctions began.

1) It seems like the site facilitated trade more easily: people on both ends were pretty confident with prices being around what they expected, particularly with commonly sold goods.

2) Before p99 auctions, if I auctioned something at 3k, even if it was below what I almost always saw it for sale for in ec, I'd get tells for buying at 2.5k and reject. These people would almost always insist that 2.5k was fair price, or they couldn't afford more, or their dog died so please help them out etc. After p99 auctions, I'd say 75% of the time I reject a lowball offer they just say "fine I'll buy at 3k."

3) Prices seem to have a much lower variance: Schnickusaurus even made a thread about how he can only turn 1k profit buying/selling on Fungis and he was going to "retire" from this market.

I started on P99 in 2012, took a long break and came back less than a year ago. Originally, I never verified through email my forum account, and lost that email sent from P99, so had to use a new email and do it over again when i came back to the game. The join date you see doesn't reflect accurately how long I have been on the server.

When I first started on P99 I used to use wiki for prices, there was no P99 auctions. I learned about P99 auctions when I noticed wiki prices were not updated frequently and the prices were old, so I started asking how people checked prices.

Your examples and what you use as proof of how P99 auctions made prices fair and less varied are strictly subjective personal experiences of your own. You have no hard data that proves your case, only what "seems" to be the case. That being said...

I personally could manipulate the P99 auction prices without even putting hardly any effort into it. I did it. This isn't subjective, this is fact.

You can stand by your opinion that P99 kept prices regulated fairly etc., but that's not really the case because the fact is P99 auction prices were being manipulated by sellers.

That "monthly average price" of items, where do you think it came from?

It came from prices that were collected from EC that were set by the players, and I know it's hard to fathom, but many players understood this and put up false advertisements for the sole purpose of setting the price for items they commonly farmed and sold.

You are correct when you say prices had a much less variance I agree with that, because the prices set were easy to go look up and read from P99 auctions... That doesn't mean those prices were not fixed by players selling specific items or that those listed prices gave a fair price for an items actual plat worth.

[Triode]

I'm happy to learn about ahungry for its live feed, but sadly it appears that the search function is not as reliable on that site and the database incomplete in so far as lower tier items?

By way of background, I am relatively new to p99 and, due to the inevitable passage of time since my heyday on live, a casual player with limited time to play. In addition to the simple joy of convenient nostalgic window shopping, the marvelous thing about p99auctions for me was that I could run quick searches, a few times a day off my phone browser, for unremarkable mid-level gear that pops up only rarely in EC (frankly, none of it is priced high enough to be worth the time it takes to sell for affluent players). The site has been hugely beneficial for me to be able to see who was selling these items so that I could then login, when possible, and message the the sellers in game to see if the items were still available. Often they were, and the sellers with whom I communicated always seemed grateful that the site had facilitated these transactions.

As a test, I just ran searches for a few such items I have been following on ahungry (e.g. conch shell horn, unicorn horn, thunder runed war spear, symphonic saber etc.) In certain instances, the items are not recognized by the database at all. In others, ahungry is failing to display numerous instances in which these items were actually auctioned in EC over the course of the last month or two, as reported on p99auctions and confirmed in my exchanges with the sellers.

For those of us who simply do not have a lot of time to spend in EC, I really hope that there is some way to preserve this search functionality on one of these sites. That said, even if there isn't, my thanks to the admins/devs at p99auctions, ahungry and others who have dedicated their time and efforts to improving the transparency and efficiency of the p99 economy. The vast majority of the player base who are not scammy resellers truly appreciate it.

[fadetree]

Basic economics: Traders rely on price variation (buy low, sell high). If everyone pretty much agrees on a price for an item (historical and average price data provided by auction site) then trading becomes much less lucrative, since nobody really sells for less than value and nobody really buys for more than the value.

But if there's no set price (no auction site, no historical data) then it's the wild west again and those with more information (tunnelquesters) have a big advantage.

Not just more information; more patience. The primary adjuster of value in a situation like this is the relative willingness to wait.

[Lhancelot]

The vast majority of the player base who are not scammy resellers truly appreciate it.

Resellers can be annoying, in fact I even put some on ignore once I seen their spam too much in EC and just wanted to minimalize the /auc spam.

That being said, reselling on eq1 is classic. I don't see it as being "scammy".

I also suspect the hate for the P99 auction site went far deeper than just "scammy resellers."

Those resellers did fine while P99 auctions was active, it did nothing to stop them from buying/selling.

In fact, I am sure some of the resellers appreciated P99 auction site too, and no need to keep beating this dead horse on how or why they would.

My point is, resellers flourished while P99 auctions was up, and it most likely was sabotaged by people making far more than some extra 100 plats on some low tier items here and there.

[Thulack]

Basic economics: Traders rely on price variation (buy low, sell high). If everyone pretty much agrees on a price for an item (historical and average price data provided by auction site) then trading becomes much less lucrative, since nobody really sells for less than value and nobody really buys for more than the value.

But if there's no set price (no auction site, no historical data) then it's the wild west again and those with more information (tunnelquesters) have a big advantage.

A item is worth whatever someone is willing to pay. Someone with more money then time probably is fine with paying more then market price for a item to have it then. I see it all the time playing FIFA. People buy players off the market for 2x their value because they dont bother sorting through the 200 of the same card for sale just to find the lowest priced one.

[Triode]

My point is, resellers flourished while P99 auctions was up, and it most likely was sabotaged by people making far more than some extra 100 plats on some low tier items here and there.

I don't disagree with the latter half of this statement, but I question the former.

At least during my extensive playtime on live (vanilla through pop, and as a serious raider starting during velious), resellers profited based on superior knowledge and/or their ability to convince buyers to spend more than an item was really worth. The knowledge afforded to casuals by p99auctions would tend to undercut these factors, except in the case, as mentioned, of certain players who presumably used alts/friends to manipulate the pricing data for certain items they were farming.

That said, in the brief time I have been playing on p99, I have watched prices decline significantly on a lot of big ticket items, including torpor and fungi's, and on popular mid-tier items like PSC's and SCHW's. So I'd be curious which items folks saw going the other direction due to manipulation? My take is that prices were falling on the whole due to better market information and, presumably, higher supply of certain desirable items since players were spending more time playing (thanks to the auction sites) and less time lingering in EC. This is beneficial to most everyone aside from the p99 1% tunnelquesters.

[Lhancelot]

I don't disagree with the latter half of this statement, but I question the former.

At least during my extensive playtime on live (vanilla through pop, and as a serious raider starting during velious), resellers profited based on superior knowledge and/or their ability to convince buyers to spend more than an item was really worth. The knowledge afforded to casuals by p99auctions would tend to undercut these factors, except in the case, as mentioned, of certain players who presumably used alts/friends to manipulate the pricing data for certain items they were farming.

That said, in the brief time I have been playing on p99, I have watched prices decline significantly on a lot of big ticket items, including torpor and fungi's, and on popular mid-tier items like PSC's and SCHW's. So I'd be curious which items folks saw going the other direction due to manipulation? My take is that prices were falling on the whole due to better market information and, presumably, higher supply of certain desirable items since players were spending more time playing (thanks to the auction sites) and less time lingering in EC. This is beneficial to most everyone aside from the p99 1% tunnelquesters.

Whether or not P99 auctions is up, it's inevitable that more items will flood the market over time and reduce prices. Only way it won't is if someone truly has a monopoly on an item and keeps the price elevated.

I have nothing against P99, I can work with it or without it in EC, and I can see how people who never go to ec or not often would find the P99 site helpful. It was convenient, no doubt.

I will miss some of the features like the live stream, that was convenient to have when you were not in ec.

I will not miss how I get tells 1week later for an item because someone looked the item up, and seen me selling it some time in the past. That got annoying.

Pros and cons, pros and cons to the P99 auction site.

R.I.P. P99 Auction Site.

[Lojik]

A item is worth whatever someone is willing to pay. Someone with more money then time probably is fine with paying more then market price for a item to have it then. I see it all the time playing FIFA. People buy players off the market for 2x their value because they dont bother sorting through the 200 of the same card for sale just to find the lowest priced one.

Don't think anyone's arguing that their are fair or unfair prices. Yes, an item is worth whatever people are willing to pay, but most people try to maximize the gains from trade. Despite whatever people may think, goods are not traded until both parties perceive the item they are trading for to be more valuable than what they are trading. Most people have a certain level of price sensitivity and will do at least a little bit of research, any more research required increases transactions cost.

I started on P99 in 2012, took a long break and came back less than a year ago. Originally, I never verified through email my forum account, and lost that email sent from P99, so had to use a new email and do it over again when i came back to the game. The join date you see doesn't reflect accurately how long I have been on the server.

When I first started on P99 I used to use wiki for prices, there was no P99 auctions. I learned about P99 auctions when I noticed wiki prices were not updated frequently and the prices were old, so I started asking how people checked prices.

Your examples and what you use as proof of how P99 auctions made prices fair and less varied are strictly subjective personal experiences of your own. You have no hard data that proves your case, only what "seems" to be the case. That being said...

I personally could manipulate the P99 auction prices without even putting hardly any effort into it. I did it. This isn't subjective, this is fact.

You can stand by your opinion that P99 kept prices regulated fairly etc., but that's not really the case because the fact is P99 auction prices were being manipulated by sellers.

That "monthly average price" of items, where do you think it came from?

It came from prices that were collected from EC that were set by the players, and I know it's hard to fathom, but many players understood this and put up false advertisements for the sole purpose of setting the price for items they commonly farmed and sold.

You are correct when you say prices had a much less variance I agree with that, because the prices set were easy to go look up and read from P99 auctions... That doesn't mean those prices were not fixed by players selling specific items or that those listed prices gave a fair price for an items actual plat worth.

Not once have I argued that prices are more or less fair with or without p99auctions, nor do I consider my experiences to be proof that dealing in the ec tunnel was easier with that around. However, i find the claims about manipulation to be absurd. You'd need definite proof of 2 things. 1) amount of manipulation before p99 auctions, and 2) definite proof of the extent of it during p99 auctions. You gave an example that you"manipulated" prices on p99 auctions, yet do you really think no one would do that without p99 auctions, or that the wiki prices aren't manipulated at all? If it turned out that the manipulation was much worse before p99auctions, can you really say that the fact that you could manipulate the numbers still be a negative for this site?

The only thing we know is that readily available information (that would be harder for people not in the tunnel all the time to gather) is lost, so for most people who aren't ec traders the transactions costs just went up. Even for ec traders transactions prices just went up, but some will look to make gains to offset this by informational advantages.

Side note about resellers: i think you have to break these into two categories: some know that their cost of selling an item is lower since they'll be in ec anyway, so they'll pay a little below the going rate for an item and sell for a little higher (think of this as a convenience fee, like how prices on things at 7-11 are slightly more expensive.) I think for the average player this is a good thing. You then have sellers who try to stretch the margins by a lot, and instead of facilitating trade they actually stymie it, these are the ones I feel like most people gripe about.

[Lhancelot]

Not once have I argued... *snip snip snip*

We can debate it's pros and cons all day long. doesn't matter anymore.

R.I.P. P99 Auction site. You were great while you lasted.

[LordRayken]

It's probably resellers that did it.

[Mantis187]

well it was awesome while it lasted

[demokatt]

Atleast I hope they keep the site up as it is today, it is an awsome way to find stuff for certain slots u didnt know existed. Much better than the wiki equipment lists.

[Lobus]

I hope they take the offer from the server guides and other experts in the thread to shore up the site... or release their code so someone else can take on the mantle for the community.

They did a great service and it's not right that they got treated this way but hopefully the community can come together to save this great resource.

[Lhancelot]

I hope they take the offer from the server guides and other experts in the thread to shore up the site... or release their code so someone else can take on the mantle for the community.

They did a great service and it's not right that they got treated this way but hopefully the community can come together to save this great resource.

Just let it die, man.

You will recover faster and begin to move on once you have accepted the fact that P99AuctionSite has died, and isn't coming back.

It's time to stop looking backwards, and to look forward to future wonders and adventure!

You only slow the healing process of your broken heart by hanging on to past memories of P99AuctionSite.

As soon as you realize this was but one auction site amongst a sea of many, you will find it easier to find auction elf sim satisfaction elsewhere.

I know it's hard. I do. You can do it though. You are strong, and you WILL find another, someday.

[tristantio]

Did anyone hear of http://ahungry.com/eqauctions before? Same thing and been around longer too.

[kaev]

What nasty things to say. This community has always been one of the kindest, most welcoming and easily penetrated of any mmo. Your assessment is not only untrue, it is unfair. Most players would drop what they were doing, whatever it was, to lend a hand however they could.

Most would (and do) give away items to new beginners rather than spend their hours sullying their souls in the tunnel. And I would say that even within EC, most are simply there to transact by the accepted rules of fair play and move on. They are not there to scour specific log entries or weigh the merit of every damned unrelated auction. They just want to sell their stuff and go back to playing the gam with their friends and family, making new acquaintances and helping one another bash baddies ^^ They are no more to blame for their unwitting exploitation than p99auctions is for its.

All of that is true (except the "nasty" bit), and none of it contradicts my comment. This community has long been well salted with jerks, and you've been around plenty long enough to know that. (And a far few of the jerks are quite friendly and companionable if they happen to consider you a friend/ally, it's a rare personality who is 100% sociopath, even here.)

Resellers were using, and RMTers were abusing, the EC bazaar long before p99auctions was even a vague notion in its programmer's mind. The assholery in EC and in the raid game was well established in EC and throughout the community when I started playing here in the fall of 2011, and by all reports then it was not a recent development.

Your rude comments about p99auctions in this and other threads are completely unwarranted.

Thou protesteth overmuch, m'lady.

[kaev]

got proof?
Hi Filbus. It's good to see you're still kicking around.

[fragmaster]

Did anyone hear of http://ahungry.com/eqauctions before? Same thing and been around longer too.

yeah, you're there, I'm using you. The 2 min delay is a killer, though. Not sure what you can do to change that. Doesn't matter though, I'm using your site!

[Gumbo]

Did anyone hear of http://ahungry.com/eqauctions before? Same thing and been around longer too.

I like the new look and the search for the site. I haven't been buying or selling lately but I'm liking what I see...

[fzzzt]

Does anyone know how these sites deduce items? At some point you need to do string matching from the log I suppose, then is it just hitting alla or something with the name to (hopyfully) find an exact match?

[tristantio]

Does anyone know how these sites deduce items? At some point you need to do string matching from the log I suppose, then is it just hitting alla or something with the name to (hopyfully) find an exact match?

https://github.com/ahungry/com.ahungry <- full ahungry source code, see for yourself

[fzzzt]

lol lisp. neat, thanks!

[Nephlite]

I still don't see a lot of the items i'm looking for listed in that site. I mean no hits on Protection of the Glade or call of the predator

[maskedmelon]

All of that is true (except the "nasty" bit), and none of it contradicts my comment. This community has long been well salted with jerks, and you've been around plenty long enough to know that. (And a far few of the jerks are quite friendly and companionable if they happen to consider you a friend/ally, it's a rare personality who is 100% sociopath, even here.)

Resellers were using, and RMTers were abusing, the EC bazaar long before p99auctions was even a vague notion in its programmer's mind. The assholery in EC and in the raid game was well established in EC and throughout the community when I started playing here in the fall of 2011, and by all reports then it was not a recent development.

Your rude comments about p99auctions in this and other threads are completely unwarranted.

Thou protesteth overmuch, m'lady.

Not sure how I missed his until now, but now that I have found it, I will address it ^^ I do not hold p99auctions or it's creators accountable for the abuses it suffered alongside EC goers. No, that blame rests entirely with those who knowingly subjected the site and their fellow players to their own nefarious ambitions.

I apologize if my words slandered too directly p99auctions or it's benevolent creators. That was not my intent. But though a tool may be crafted with noblest of intents, it is not immune to misuse. And though neither it nor it's creators may in good conscience be held to account for such misuse, the abuse of others still, simply cannot be ignored. It is for that reason that I felt strongly the passing of this creation was a boon to our community.

I should have more clearly leveled blame at the source (the exploiters) while addressing clearly the unintended role played by p99auctions. Thank you for keeping me in line ^^

[tristantio]

I still don't see a lot of the items i'm looking for listed in that site. I mean no hits on Protection of the Glade or call of the predator

If you mean ahungry, email me the items you find missing and I can work on adding (they need to be added to my item database).

[odiecat99]

whoever was involved in the demise of p99auctions can eat a bag of decaying skeleton dicks.