My experience with a raid guild on P99

[Lhancelot]

Just a forewarning, this is probably a TL;DR post for many.

Since starting on P99, I always wanted to be part of a guild where people worked together and the emphasis was on having fun with the people in the guild while gearing members mains in a fair manner. You know, people first, pixels second.

After taking a long break from the game, I decided to come back about a year ago. I began leveling older alts, and I would often run into a guy who was a lvl 60. After a couple months of always chatting with him, he always would suggest that I join the guild he was in. It was a raiding guild, and in his words, the people were great! He told me once I got to 55 lvl or so, to apply and I would no doubt find it a great guild to be a part of.

After I thought it over, and got one of my characters to 55 lvl, I decided to app for this particular guild. I ran with some officers, we did some grouping and after about the third time, they offered me a tag as an app, which then after consistent raid attendance would be upgraded to full member status (as long as I seemed to fit personality-wise, too).

What I personally found after a couple months in the guild was this:

1. I found the guild to be cliquey, where people never offered to group with others, only their pals and buddies.

2. I found that raid loot was more easily accessed to alts of established members than it was to new members who had mains with low tier gears on.

3. I found that when on a raid I was unfamiliar with, I hardly could get any direction on what or where to go from other guild members. I felt like I was inconveniencing them with questions, and rarely did anyone ever offer to explain or help me when I needed it without me having to send multiple tells to different players until one could find the time to help me.

4. I found that non-established members had to beg for the guild to help with some portion of their epics to be done, yet often times an established member would flash his brand new epic in guild chat, proudly showing it off when he already has multiple toons with epics.

Often times, in guild chat a newer member would even ask what they had to do to get some help with an epic, and they were told "just make sure you help others out, and eventually you will get help for yours." Yet, when one of the core members needed his epic piece, it was taken care of often times under the radar.

These are just some of the things from my perspective that I didn't like.

Basically I felt like there was no relationship with the majority of newer members and only the most favored in the guild were the ones that benefited the most with no concern for those newer members. I also felt like the thirst for pixels was insane. It seemed to overcast everything the majority of the guild members did, particularly the officers and guild leadership.


To finish my TL;DR story, the guy who influenced me to join the guild abruptly left the game literally the week I joined, I have not seen him since. My "main" which I used to enjoy playing I hate now, because I feel disdain and resentment towards the guild the toon is in. I don't want to be a quitter, but at the same time I honestly feel no connection with this guild whatsoever.

I realize that I am going to end up leaving this guild, obviously it's not working and I am not having fun with this guild, thus I cannot stay in it.

Perhaps I am just too idealistic? Maybe what I see isn't what others see or experience?

Obviously not every member was/is a pixel-craving fiend who cares nothing for anyone only their precious shinies. Generally speaking though, the above is my experience in totality.

My real question is this. Are all raid guilds like this? Is this just the nature of the beast? Are there any successful raid guilds with a smaller member count, that have members who actually work together who help others even those not in their special clique?

I guess basically I felt like venting a little bit, and I am wondering if others have had similar experiences as I have had. I also think that perhaps I simply aint cut out for guilds on this game or server. That's a very good possibility too.

[Erati]

what was the guild

[fan D]

yeah sounds like you got some entitlement issues, also sounds like you have a phobia of speaking and getting to know new people

you're a random person who probably isn't contributing much on raids and will never be a factor in whether the guild succeeds or fails, so people aren't going to really care about you. Especially if you're quiet and don't branch out and force the issue

you gotta do some shit on your own and not expect everything to be handed to u

[Lhancelot]

what was the guild

I don't want to turn this into a guild bashing thing, because I understand that one's perception is often times not shared by others.

I suppose writing this post does no good at all. Probably would have been better to keep it to myself and just leave the guild, honestly speaking.

[fan D]

these people who are getting gear on their 2nd and 3rd alts before you are deserving of all of it. these are the people who are responsible for your guild to get any loot at all, they do all the work. you would never ever be able to kill one of these dragons without them tracking and socking it for you.

i can tell by your attitude that you're not much of a player or bring much value to a raid, you should be lucky to get anything at all tbh

[Shodo]

I can't speak for the "top tier" raid guilds, having never been in one, but outside of that category I can't really downplay how happy I've been with <Paradox>. We don't have the numbers or levels yet to hit the competitive raid zones like VP or ToV, but we do a great job of focusing on getting members Thurg gear and epic pieces, dungeon crawling, and other things. You might be a good fit for us if you don't mind missing out on best-in-slot gear (we hope to take a shot at that stuff some day though).

We also cooperate with guilds like <Super Friends> and <Azure Guard> that are more established to take on content we can't handle on our own. I haven't gotten to attend the joint-AG stuff myself but I've never had a bad encounter with their members, and our officers say good things about them. I have had the opportunity to raid with SF on several occasions, and they're always both friendly and knowledgeable. So if you still want a less "hardcore" attitude but would like better gearing opportunities than <Paradox> can currently offer, I would recommend checking out one of those two guilds (I don't know what their app needs are, I just know they're great).

[supermonk]

its unfortunate you feel this way as a new member, most end-game guilds are like this i presume though. the reasoning is because there are far too many instances where an app turned member would gear up and leave guild/quit. therefore, overtime guild members are less inclined to help green members on requests. honestly, if you just stick it out and prove you're an asset or prove that you're not going to ghost after you get X item, i'm almost certain the amount of help you will receive will increase over time. it's nothing personal really, but the more friends you make in guild and the more you help others, the more people will be inclined to help you down the road.

[vincenzo]

OP and fan D must be in the same guild

OP: join a smaller knit guild that is trying to break into the raiding scene so you can establish yourself as a core member as opposed to a fringe nobody. Elitism aside, the top-end players on this server have seen so many people come and go that you are just another statistic to them. Unless you have something special that distances you from the pack I would suggest avoiding the highest tier raiding guilds if your main goal is to have fun and form relationships.

[Lhancelot]

yeah sounds like you got some entitlement issues, also sounds like you have a phobia of speaking and getting to know new people

you're a random person who probably isn't contributing much on raids and will never be a factor in whether the guild succeeds or fails, so people aren't going to really care about you. Especially if you're quiet and don't branch out and force the issue

you gotta do some shit on your own and not expect everything to be handed to u

I can see and understand your view, particularly when all you have to go on is the post I wrote. Obviously I couldn't go into all the details or the post would have been even longer.

I have no problem giving my time or ingame items to those who need and did so while in this guild. For instance, I had items that were no-drop pieces for epics that I gave to others in the guild (not sell) instead of MQing them for money like most people do. I didn't broadcast this in guild chat though, either.

As for "branching out and forcing the issue", I have no problem being social but you are right about me not forcing issues when I want something. I never been the type that "forced the issue" to get stuff and so maybe that's part of my problem too. I feel like if I give my time and attention to others without them begging for it, this should be reciprocated. If I have to "force the issue" to get the help of a guild, guess I don't need to be in a guild.

[Nune]

People who put more time and effort into a guild will be better received in said guild than someone who's soaking DKP and logging off or someone new. This entire server is cliquey, that is in no way unique to any guild.

If you and 20 of your friends showed up to a party, would there not be a handful of the 20 you have better relationships with and likely spend more time conversing with? Instead of partying, its playing EQ. It's just human nature.

As far as giving loot to "established" members alts vs. needing mains, you've narrowed down the mystery of which guild youre speaking of because that is business as usual for a handful of the guilds here. Raiding guilds generally: Dont have the guild members / schedule to do big boy targets (casual) so it's more laid back - or - Youre a top end raiding guild and the games taken much more seriously. I find 0 entertainment in staring at a camp waiting for __ hours for something to pop, throwing a shoe at it, running in a circle for 15 minutes and zerging it down in 12 seconds. But I'll never get top end raid gear because of that stance, so thats my volition.

[Lhancelot]

its unfortunate you feel this way as a new member, most end-game guilds are like this i presume though. the reasoning is because there are far too many instances where an app turned member would gear up and leave guild/quit. therefore, overtime guild members are less inclined to help green members on requests. honestly, if you just stick it out and prove you're an asset or prove that you're not going to ghost after you get X item, i'm almost certain the amount of help you will receive will increase over time. it's nothing personal really, but the more friends you make in guild and the more you help others, the more people will be inclined to help you down the road.

Yeah that's probably the deal, actually. Makes sense tbh. Think I just had way too high expectations though and a few bad personal experiences with some members that then made me feel resentful to the guild as a whole. Probably not a fair assessment on my part.

[Nune]

I can't speak for the "top tier" raid guilds, having never been in one, but outside of that category I can't really downplay how happy I've been with <Paradox>. We don't have the numbers or levels yet to hit the competitive raid zones like VP or ToV, but we do a great job of focusing on getting members Thurg gear and epic pieces, dungeon crawling, and other things. You might be a good fit for us if you don't mind missing out on best-in-slot gear (we hope to take a shot at that stuff some day though).

We also cooperate with guilds like <Super Friends> and <Azure Guard> that are more established to take on content we can't handle on our own. I haven't gotten to attend the joint-AG stuff myself but I've never had a bad encounter with their members, and our officers say good things about them. I have had the opportunity to raid with SF on several occasions, and they're always both friendly and knowledgeable. So if you still want a less "hardcore" attitude but would like better gearing opportunities than <Paradox> can currently offer, I would recommend checking out one of those two guilds (I don't know what their app needs are, I just know they're great).

Back at you guys! <Paradox> is awesome, they really remind me of <Indignation> when we were building our forces and working on getting everyone to 60. Friendly dudes and dudettes, show up to raids on time, play their roles well, know their stuff, 10/10 across the board. Keep up the great work pals

[Nune]

these people who are getting gear on their 2nd and 3rd alts before you are deserving of all of it. these are the people who are responsible for your guild to get any loot at all, they do all the work. you would never ever be able to kill one of these dragons without them tracking and socking it for you.

i can tell by your attitude that you're not much of a player or bring much value to a raid, you should be lucky to get anything at all tbh

^ perfect example of the population to avoid around here, there's a whole lot of em

[Lhancelot]

OP and fan D must be in the same guild

OP: join a smaller knit guild that is trying to break into the raiding scene so you can establish yourself as a core member as opposed to a fringe nobody. Elitism aside, the top-end players on this server have seen so many people come and go that you are just another statistic to them. Unless you have something special that distances you from the pack I would suggest avoiding the highest tier raiding guilds if your main goal is to have fun and form relationships.

Yeah, good advice. Think that's what I will do. I rather have fun and be a part of something more directly than just a fringe player who is nothing more than another statistic. Thanks for the insight. ;)

[Lojik]

Just try to be vocal in guild chat:ask what's happening or anything you can help with. Once people get to know you they're more willing to help you when you need. Don't be afraid to ask for help with stuff before you get to know people either though, just try not to get discouraged if people don't come running right away

[Erati]

Never be afraid to ask another member a question, if they act like they are bothered by conversation from another member then they are the ones with the issue, not you.

[mickmoranis]

what was the guild

Can confirm this is every guild ever. :o

[astuce999]

I second what Qaos said. Try to always have a Kennedy speech approach to the guild (ask not what the guild can do for you but what you can do for the guild). It may feel to you that you've done that already but keep at it, it eventually is reciprocated.

If I have a couple hours to play when I log in my first interaction with the guild is always "is there anything fun going on?" or "anyone need any help with anything?"

Plus it's fun to help others. Except Madye.

Astuce

<3 Madye

[Zorlon]

3. I found that when on a raid I was unfamiliar with, I hardly could get any direction on what or where to go from other guild members. I felt like I was inconveniencing them with questions, and rarely did anyone ever offer to explain or help me when I needed it without me having to send multiple tells to different players until one could find the time to help me.


Most of the people you're asking don't know either, and a lot of them have probably played on this server for several years.

[Scatch]

It's like the real world: folks chase the dollar only to find only ass holes chase the dollar, and you're best dropping from that race as soon as you can. Once you do, you'll find fine folks who pull you up while you give them a foothold, and you're that much farther than you would have been in the race, and actually happy, to boot.

These SuperFriends people sound like the good kinda folk you need to be with: they might not have the toppest of top items, but they sound like they're worth your time.

I love Home Videos, too, so I'm especially upset at Fan D for using that avatar and talking in such a way.

[Nitsude]

I'll never understand this mindset of being entitled to other people's time just because you recently joined their guild. No one owes you anything.

When I see someone new join I'm looking for assurances that they're worth the time investment. If I see they're leveling diligently (if not already 60), working on required items for raiding, eager to help others first, etc. then I definitely go out of my way to do things for that person -- many times when they don't even ask.

No single guild fits all personalities or needs. From your post, I think you would be happier in a more casual guild.

[coki]

took a friend of mine over 1 year of sucking ecczan's virtual cock before old tmo finally Mqed him his last epic piece, and being so tired of sucking cock for over a year he quit p99 a month later, sad but its the nature of the high end guilds most of the time, not all the time though

[lonmoer]

I felt exactly this way in Azure Guard. I submitted 3 max bids for items (all of which could of been sold for 100k+) within a 48 hour time span and all of them went to a small coterie of officers. When I complained about it in p99 forums they banned me from the guild and took away months of DKP that I worked for and never got to spend.

[Lhancelot]

I'll never understand this mindset of being entitled to other people's time just because you recently joined their guild. No one owes you anything.

When I see someone new join I'm looking for assurances that they're worth the time investment. If I see they're leveling diligently (if not already 60), working on required items for raiding, eager to help others first, etc. then I definitely go out of my way to do things for that person -- many times when they don't even ask.

No single guild fits all personalities or needs. From your post, I think you would be happier in a more casual guild.

I get that, I do. I understand when you enter a guild, that you can't instantly just get handed full loot items etc. But that's not what I want, or wanted. I wanted to feel like I was a part of a group that valued every member, and had leadership that considered the needs of even the newest member of the guild. Generally a new member isn't looking for top shelf items when they first hop in a guild, they simply want to be acknowledged and talked to with some sort of dignity.

When I mentioned things I needed in guild chat (which was rare), it was either ignored, or spoken about between officers in guild chat without talking to me directly.

Example? Something dropped I really needed, something for my epic. Really, this is the only thing I spoke up earnestly in guild chat about wanting and I had been there for 2 months. Once I asked, officers discussed it in guild chat, "hey we killed ****** and we got a ****** from it! Is anyone on that needs it?" I then spoke up, and asked if I could come to get it, I stressed I could get there quickly as I was not far away to get it (at the time I was leveling as was expected on this day - was not yet 60), after a long pause one officer said, "**** says he needs it..." Then a member offered, "I can sit on it till he gets here." After another long pause, a different officer said... "Yeah he can't get here in time, I will just loot it for MQ".

That was it. No tells, nothing to indicate that maybe one day I could have the item if I proved my worth or whatever it is I am supposed to do. They looted it to MQ it.

I discussed this with one of their long time members, a real good dude that actually spends tons of his personal time helping guild members who are not yet 60 level up that are new members of the guild. He said basically he would try to put in a good word for me, so if it happened again, I might have a better chance of getting the item. I had been in groups with him multiple times by this point, and honestly he is the only one in that guild that I feel acts remotely like how an officer should. Ironically, he isn't an officer.

By this point, I came to realize, that after over 2 months I found one guy that played the way I liked to play, who had a little bit of leverage in the guild. Helping people, dungeon grinding for fun, etc.

What I see is a ton of people riding the coattails of a pixel gathering guild, happy to sit back and reap what drops as leftovers to them while a core group reap more of the pixels for themselves and their own personal army of alts.

Sure, the guild is operating and running in the manner it does thanks to those core officers who keep it organized, but this does not mean others couldn't run it just as well with more consideration and dignity towards it's fringe members.

I understand the notion of proving one's worth when joining any new team, job, place of living, whatever it is. It's the natural socialization of people. I get that.

IMO a guild or organization of people also has some sort of responsibility to make it's members feel it too has loyalty to them and this is my biggest problem here. I simply never felt any sort of loyalty back from any of the officers or leadership of this guild.

I think that there are so many members in it, and the guild has been operating like a machine for so long grabbing up pixels like a fine oiled machine that the core group of people running it simply don't care about the underlings particularly the new members, that's my opinion.

Could be I simply had a few very isolated incidences, and that what I experienced was not the norm. I suppose it's all subjective, depending on how you look at it.

[maskedmelon]

I feel like if I give my time and attention to others without them begging for it, this should be reciprocated. If I have to "force the issue" to get the help of a guild, guess I don't need to be in a guild.

Unilateral agreements are a road to disappointment :c Not everyone thinks the same as you, but you seem to understand that ^^ The simplest solution is to of course leave. If it is an uncomfortable atmosphere that you don't want to deal with, I wouldn't blame you for doing so. However, I would encourage you to be more reserved in your charity. A gift given with expectation is a purchase, not a gift. You are not being magnanimous in doing so. If you really like someone though and genuinely want to help them out, then by all means, do that, but do not do it when not relationship exists because without conveying your own desires others will just assume you are doing it to because you want to. I am generally wary of gifts for this reason because many people do think as you do and unless I have a relationship with you I don't really care about you and don't want to disappoint :/ I am generally happy to do whatever with whomever though, but there are very few people I would/have gifted anything to or move at the drop of a hat to help. I value them.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

I think we might be in the same guild! Also, seeing members fawn over the token fat chick in the guild is so cringeworthy. Meh, when I joined the server three months ago I think I had an idea like you "oh cool I get to go on raids now like I never had time to on live, it shouldn't be hotly contested or anything in this old game... Right?"

[Lhancelot]

I think we might be in the same guild! Also, seeing members fawn over the token fat chick in the guild is so cringeworthy. Meh, when I joined the server three months ago I think I had an idea like you "oh cool I get to go on raids now like I never had time to on live, it shouldn't be hotly contested or anything in this old game... Right?"

I think what it comes down to is a difference in personalities, mentalities, and expectations. I am sure many people would be in my shoes, and feel completely comfortable with the way the guild operates, they may even find it operates quite well. With that in mind, I am sure there are some who share my sentiment in this guild, as well as other guilds on the server. With that being said, it's hard to say if we share the same guild. ;)

Hey, I sure appreciate the feedback from everyone, even those who may find my post obnoxious or self-entitling. I always enjoy hearing different perspectives particularly those that are different than mine. I feel better after venting my thoughts out after seeing what others think, or have experienced themselves. Thanks for the comments.

[nyclin]

Others have said it but it bears repeating: people are cynical about new guild members, unless you're an established personality on the server.

Everyone has seen the new app that was a ghost that never talked or contributed, or the "help me with epic plz" spammer, or the person who shows their true, shitty personality after they become full member.

Best way to get help is to give it. Eventually the people you're helping are going to say "hey dude, you're here helping us - what can we do for you?" If they don't, then it's probably time to find a new group of people to play with.

[Ravager]

these people who are getting gear on their 2nd and 3rd alts before you are deserving of all of it. these are the people who are responsible for your guild to get any loot at all, they do all the work. you would never ever be able to kill one of these dragons without them tracking and socking it for you.

i can tell by your attitude that you're not much of a player or bring much value to a raid, you should be lucky to get anything at all tbh
The guy is asking what he needs to do and people are ignoring him. How is this entitlement? He wants to participate. He can't bring value to a raid without someone telling him what he needs to be doing.

I can tell by your attitude that you're not much of a guildie, you should be lucky to get any apps at all.

[burkemi5]

The issues with cliquey-ness are pretty standard on here. When I raided in a now defunct self-proclaimed "casual raiding guild," it was really bad. Unless you sat in TS for hours each night, cracked the best jokes, and cozied up to the officers, no one gave a shit about you or wanted to help you. And the pixel craze was pretty bad too. The humble bragging was so bad. I remember there was one member who once made a comment about how his bags were so full of useful clickies that he wouldn't loot anything worth less than 30k. While the rest of us had a hooded black cloak as our most valuable item. And in hindsight, all our rarely-obtained raid loot was loot counciled to one of the excessively large officer crew. At the time I was on board and drinking the koolaid but, looking back, fudge that.

I think the pixel/ plat craze is just too strong on this server because it's so sparse.

[Lhancelot]

The issues with cliquey-ness are pretty standard on here. When I raided in a now defunct self-proclaimed "casual raiding guild," it was really bad. Unless you sat in TS for hours each night, cracked the best jokes, and cozied up to the officers, no one gave a shit about you or wanted to help you. And the pixel craze was pretty bad too. The humble bragging was so bad. I remember there was one member who once made a comment about how his bags were so full of useful clickies that he wouldn't loot anything worth less than 30k. While the rest of us had a hooded black cloak as our most valuable item. And in hindsight, all our rarely-obtained raid loot was loot counciled to one of the excessively large officer crew. At the time I was on board and drinking the koolaid but, looking back, fudge that.

I think the pixel/ plat craze is just too strong on this server because it's so sparse.
That's my impression of it too. Pretty much how I feel about it, and it's not in my personality to try to "cozy" up to people to liken the chance I might get stuffs. I don't do it IRL, and I won't do it to get pixels either.

I know a guy that plays a shaman on this server, he's been here for 3-4 years at least. He never joined a guild, and basically spent tons of time farming to get plats to buy his last piece of his epic from a MQ, he bought torpor, he basically spent YEARS grinding to get what a guild probably could have gotten him faster. He did it though, because he dislikes the politics in guilds so much that he refused to join one.

I totally get why he did it this way, and respect the fact he found a way to get what he wants without having to sacrifice his own personal code of values. I have a little bit of me that is like him, but I also like to group up and have fun times in dungeons etc. I like solo stuff, but grouping is great too. I don't think I could go full-maverick like this guy has done though.

[Spyder73]

Edit: Thought this was in RnF - will wait until it is to give my opinion on Awakend

Hint - it rhymes with 'buck'

Join Aftermath if you want to raid

[Nitsude]

Hey, I sure appreciate the feedback from everyone, even those who may find my post obnoxious or self-entitling. I always enjoy hearing different perspectives particularly those that are different than mine. I feel better after venting my thoughts out after seeing what others think, or have experienced themselves. Thanks for the comments.

I apologize if my post seemed harsh. After reading your later comments I can tell you're not the kind of player I was describing as self-entitled.

[Evia]

I've been playing on the server off and on for roughly 4-5 years. I have joined 5-6 raiding guilds as an app and can relate with OP. I've experienced that feeling in every guild I've joined. I try to be active and friendly/helpful but I always felt outside of the "click" or "inner circle" crowd. I was really looking forward to raiding on p99 but still havent really ever done it because I couldn't ever get myself comfortably established with any high end guild.

[bktroost]

I felt exactly this way in Azure Guard. I submitted 3 max bids for items (all of which could of been sold for 100k+) within a 48 hour time span and all of them went to a small coterie of officers. When I complained about it in p99 forums they banned me from the guild and took away months of DKP that I worked for and never got to spend.

If you are who I think you are, then I believe you were banned for telling someone in ooc to "eat a dick" when they asked you to stop bard swarming. If this is the right person then you also told the officers that If you couldn't speak your mind like that then you should just deguild now. After fighting for you for a few months we eventually decided, after another person sent us a tell about being insulted, that you really arnt AG material. I've only ever forum banned 2 people which is why I think you are who you are.

Sorry you didn't get any pixels.

[Joyelle]

Edit: Thought this was in RnF - will wait until it is to give my opinion on Awakend

Hint - it rhymes with 'buck'

Join Aftermath if you want to raid

You should write a song about it.

[paulgiamatti]

Lonmoer = Treblemaker in game.

Here he is contributing to Rustle's recruitment thread (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2371626#post2371626):

#RotationsMakeCasualsBetter

eat a dick.

And here's some feedback in his bard powerleveling service thread (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2336193), in which he blatantly rips off Zanderr's pricing scheme to his own benefit:

This guy has an absolutely toxic personality. Stay clear of him. He got kicked out of his last guild for being foulmouthed (I am sure not only to me), and is now badmouthing that guild & insulting on the most childish level.

Initial insult:
Missing from my screenshot is my initial ooc:

Then:
https://s8.postimg.org/43wbffgd1/2016_08_01_Treblemaker1_ng.jpg
Censored content in screenshot is to keep the guild name out of this & an unrelated tell

And today:
https://s8.postimg.org/60qqvamo5/2016_08_06_Treblemaker2.jpg
https://s8.postimg.org/i15zsq19h/2016_08_06_Treblemaker3_ng.jpg

No other interaction before, in between or after.

https://s7.postimg.org/tixa5kfhn/2016_08_07_Treblemaker_Forum.png

Btw. OP is delusional, apparently he can't tell people apart who he had been "friendly" to.

[kotton05]

whoa great find paul, in that case lonmoer gets no sympathy from me after readin this so im just gonna drop the /thread

sounds like folks dont like awarding loot to doinks like you and i agree.

[paulgiamatti]

Lonmoer isn't the OP of this thread, just thought people should know who he is in game to steer clear.

[skarlorn]

Not being allowed into AG is a great thing if you want to raid

[zanderklocke]

I know a guy that plays a shaman on this server, he's been here for 3-4 years at least. He never joined a guild, and basically spent tons of time farming to get plats to buy his last piece of his epic from a MQ, he bought torpor, he basically spent YEARS grinding to get what a guild probably could have gotten him faster. He did it though, because he dislikes the politics in guilds so much that he refused to join one.


I think this is why I find casual guilds to be more fun. I always had the most fun in Flawless Victory and A-Team, and I got very little loot through the years I spent in those guilds. Aside from maybe a set of hate gear for my bard in Flawless Victory, and DKP spent on one Cloak of Piety in the A-Team, I earned everything outside of the guild or on /randoms at guild events. However, I got to have fun conversation with people while doing whatever I felt like doing when I logged in. I'll always be a casual guild guy; guilds are more fun when you don't care about loot and care more about having people to talk to while you're screwing around in the game. I can't imagine what fulfillment people get when they define their guilds' successes by what mobs they kill rather than the relationships they cultivate.

[skarlorn]

So how's phinny then Zander

[mickmoranis]

I know I want to strengthen my relationships with a bunch of autistic racists in an elf quest.

[paulgiamatti]

That's the red server. The alt-righters on blue are a tiny minority.

[bktroost]

Thanks for the PI work Paul. Appreciate it.

[mickmoranis]

I'm sure everyone on blue is totally cool & normal hence the thread.

[mickmoranis]

That's the red server. The alt-righters on blue are a tiny minority.

Hey I was wondering if I could post about and talk about eugenics with some cool and normal not racist not autist blues in the blue OT thread.

Oh great I came to the right place.

[paulgiamatti]

Off Topic isn't a blue forum.

[TanDemain]

I think this is why I find casual guilds to be more fun. I always had the most fun in Flawless Victory and A-Team, and I got very little loot through the years I spent in those guilds. Aside from maybe a set of hate gear for my bard in Flawless Victory, and DKP spent on one Cloak of Piety in the A-Team, I earned everything outside of the guild or on /randoms at guild events. However, I got to have fun conversation with people while doing whatever I felt like doing when I logged in. I'll always be a casual guild guy; guilds are more fun when you don't care about loot and care more about having people to talk to while you're screwing around in the game. I can't imagine what fulfillment people get when they define their guilds' successes by what mobs they kill rather than the relationships they cultivate.

/wave Zanderr! Was thinking of logging in again recently and wondered how A-Team was doing. The main point I think that is important is you need a caring, open inner-core. Like every country has their rich/elites, every guild has their elite circle as well (and some are very closed-off, rarely tell others where they're going/doing etc). It's important that this core makes an effort as well to invite others to participate.

[mickmoranis]

Off Topic isn't a blue forum.

anyone who says they're red and posts in that forum is blue as fuk

[thufir]

I know I want to strengthen my relationships with a bunch of autistic racists in an elf quest.

I'm sure everyone on blue is totally cool & normal hence the thread.

Hey I was wondering if I could post about and talk about eugenics with some cool and normal not racist not autist blues in the blue OT thread.

Oh great I came to the right place.

anyone who says they're red and posts in that forum is blue as fuk

some serious projecting going on around here

come for the reasoned discussion, stay for the crazy trolls

[mickmoranis]

such reason

[lonmoer]

Not being allowed into AG is a great thing if you want to raid

Amen.

[snead]

everquest is just like real life it's who you know.

[kaev]

I think this is why I find casual guilds to be more fun. I always had the most fun in Flawless Victory and A-Team, and I got very little loot through the years I spent in those guilds. Aside from maybe a set of hate gear for my bard in Flawless Victory, and DKP spent on one Cloak of Piety in the A-Team, I earned everything outside of the guild or on /randoms at guild events. However, I got to have fun conversation with people while doing whatever I felt like doing when I logged in. I'll always be a casual guild guy; guilds are more fun when you don't care about loot and care more about having people to talk to while you're screwing around in the game. I can't imagine what fulfillment people get when they define their guilds' successes by what mobs they kill rather than the relationships they cultivate.

Hey Zanderr! Complete agreement, FV was good times.

[Nikkanu]

So, here's my input...

I am a total asshole and have many friends that helped me get epics on five (almost 6!) different character in AG, Taken, Rampage, and Awakened.

This is because I have a reputation of helping everyone that needs it, whenever asked.

In summary, being a dickhead doesn't stop you from getting epics. Being a self absorbed dickhead that makes drama for others and doesn't have a reputation of helping others does stop you from getting epics.

[kgallowaypa]

In summary, being a dickhead doesn't stop you from getting epics. Being a self absorbed dickhead that makes drama for others and doesn't have a reputation of helping others does stop you from getting epics.

Well said, hats off to you sir

[Joyelle]

I am a total asshole

confirmed! :p

[Sorn]

Not being allowed into AG is a great thing if you want to raid

I'd better submit my app to AG now, then!

(Just kidding, please don't try to recruit me, Expediency)

To OP: I have to agree with a few others in this thread. It's hard (impossible, maybe) to get high end items without having a good reputation or friends. Stick around, make friends, and you'll have all the help you need. It's just a good idea in general to make friends anyway. Friends are fun! Friends like you! Friends go on adventures with you! Being a friend is fun, too! I highly recommend it.

[lonmoer]

They took away your DKP after they banned you? Harsh. You have a right to be angry. They could have at least let you keep your DKP, amirite?

But if I'm not in the guild then I can't spend DKP anymore so this doesn't work.

[maskedmelon]

But if I'm not in the guild then I can't spend DKP anymore so this doesn't work.

There are many levels of troll ^^ This is the most basic: sarcasm ^^

[Nikkanu]

confirmed! :p

See! :D

[Lhancelot]

I'd better submit my app to AG now, then!

(Just kidding, please don't try to recruit me, Expediency)

To OP: I have to agree with a few others in this thread. It's hard (impossible, maybe) to get high end items without having a good reputation or friends. Stick around, make friends, and you'll have all the help you need. It's just a good idea in general to make friends anyway. Friends are fun! Friends like you! Friends go on adventures with you! Being a friend is fun, too! I highly recommend it.

Didn't realize I said "I have no friends". Let me clarify that I do have friends. I have friends outside the game, and I even have friends on p99.

What I don't have is friends in this guild, and it seems I probably won't in the end either. I have determined like many people have discussed in this thread already, that I simply aint a good fit for this type of guild.

I should have simply followed the route my ingame friends have taken, but I wanted to try something new and something I never got to do on live. Which is raid higher end content in Kunark and Velious. All this has done is actually isolated me more from some of the pals I made early on because guild activities tend to take up time and my pals are in other smaller guilds, doing their own things too.

Call it casual, or whatever other veiled insult you want, I actually enjoy the journey with others and value the times when you can chat and talk about stuff while you grind XP or hunt at a specific camp.

Perhaps the raid scene just aint for me. When people start thirsting for loots to the point that they forget common decency towards their own guild members, it's at this point where I no longer find the game fun.

If it sounds like I am being contentious here, it's not what I intend... I just found your post a bit insultive as if my whole problem is some social issue of making friends.

On a side note, I have a cleric and a paladin that I enjoy most of all my toons right now, and guess what? Both are highly group oriented, and I have made new "friends" since leveling them up.

I guess I was just hoping that there was a chance that I could partake in some of the challenging content with a guild that had the mindset of a smaller knit guild that valued it's members and not just a select core group who basically keep the pixels flowing in for themselves.

One thing about people I always try to remind myself is what I learned 30 years ago from a very influential movie, when.... Well. let me find it.

Here it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cHpNyD4tZA

[Nikkanu]

Didn't realize I said "I have no friends". Let me clarify that I do have friends. I have friends outside the game, and I even have friends on p99.

What I don't have is friends in this guild, and it seems I probably won't in the end either. I have determined like many people have discussed in this thread already, that I simply aint a good fit for this type of guild.

I should have simply followed the route my ingame friends have taken, but I wanted to try something new and something I never got to do on live. Which is raid higher end content in Kunark and Velious. All this has done is actually isolated me more from some of the pals I made early on because guild activities tend to take up time and my pals are in other smaller guilds, doing their own things too.

Call it casual, or whatever other veiled insult you want, I actually enjoy the journey with others and value the times when you can chat and talk about stuff while you grind XP or hunt at a specific camp.

Perhaps the raid scene just aint for me. When people start thirsting for loots to the point that they forget common decency towards their own guild members, it's at this point where I no longer find the game fun.

If it sounds like I am being contentious here, it's not what I intend... I just found your post a bit insultive as if my whole problem is some social issue of making friends.

On a side note, I have a cleric and a paladin that I enjoy most of all my toons right now, and guess what? Both are highly group oriented, and I have made new "friends" since leveling them up.

I guess I was just hoping that there was a chance that I could partake in some of the challenging content with a guild that had the mindset of a smaller knit guild that valued it's members and not just a select core group who basically keep the pixels flowing in for themselves.

One thing about people I always try to remind myself is what I learned 30 years ago from a very influential movie, when.... Well. let me find it.

Here it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cHpNyD4tZA

Not going to lie... you don't really sound like you'd be a blast at parties. Just sayin.

[mickmoranis]

Not going to lie... you don't really sound like you'd be a blast at parties. Just sayin.

I know most people say this when a party needs a pick me up, "you know what this party needs? more people who play everquest."

[maskedmelon]

Couldn't watch your vid Lance, but it's perfectly reasonable if you feel you don't fit where you are and prefer to live. I would not however allow yourself to believe that you can't enjoy where you are, you just have to learn the mindset of those around you and then figure out how to give it a big ol' hug without it poking you ^^ There are ways and they don't necessarily involve sacrificing who you are, but they do require a certain level of malleability ^^

Good example for me is pvp. I absolutely hated it until I read some accounts that seemed absolutely deplorable to me, but all parties involved including the victims thought it was hillarious. That's when I realized, "ohhhh, this is what these people do!" They do it and they expect it ^^ As long as you understand the mindset, you can float along in the same stream without getting rubbed the wrong way ^^ There are occasional insufferable turds, but they are few and far between. You can have fun where you are if you want to. Start by giving up and dropping all expectations ^^

[Lhancelot]

Not going to lie... you don't really sound like you'd be a blast at parties. Just sayin.

If I was trying to impress you with my internet persona, I probably wouldn't be writing about raiding on P99. I will try to liven up my posts to entertain you more, ok? Actually, nah, I won't.

[Nikkanu]

I know most people say this when a party needs a pick me up, "you know what this party needs? more people who play everquest."

Because I was totally being literal, right...? *facepalm*

The point I am trying to make is this guy seems very negative which doesn't tend to attract lots of friends. It takes time to build friendships. It takes effort to help others and build your reputation as someone who helps others. You can't join a guild where no one knows you and expect everyone to go out of their way and invest their time to help applicant #23019923912 get epiced so they can go rejoin their casual guild. Over time you will build friendships, if you make an effort to do so, in any guild. There's no special exception to this just because a guild raids a lot.

[paulgiamatti]

Not sure which guild you're in - I know it isn't AG by the app process - but to me it really sounds like you joined a class C guild when what you really wanted was a class R guild. If the guild you're in isn't a CSG guild, I'd recommend them, and I've also been hearing good things about Venerate lately. I mean, I'm sure there are some douchebags in every guild, but the "class R" guilds seems to actively discourage them a lot more than the C guilds. The C guilds aren't really so much about the social aspect of the game, they just want to be hardcore and get BiS items.

To clarify, under the old class system before Velious there was class [C]ompetitive and class [R]estricted - if you were to translate today's raid environment into this system you'd probably end up with like Awakened, Aftermath, and Rustle as the C guilds, and all the other "casual" raiding guilds (with maybe a couple exceptions) as the R guilds.

I wanted to try something new and something I never got to do on live. Which is raid higher end content in Kunark and Velious.

Sadly, unless you played on a red server or one of the servers the GMs/developers played on, you won't get to experience this on P99. You'd be better off playing on the new live TLP server with instanced raiding and stuff if you want to experience that, but then you'll have to put up with all the garbage expansions as well. Personally, I hated Luclin onward too much to play on Phinny.

[Lhancelot]

Couldn't watch your vid Lance, but it's perfectly reasonable if you feel you don't fit where you are and prefer to live. I would not however allow yourself to believe that you can't enjoy where you are, you just have to learn the mindset of those around you and then figure out how to give it a big ol' hug without it poking you ^^ There are ways and they don't necessarily involve sacrificing who you are, but they do require a certain level of malleability ^^

Good example for me is pvp. I absolutely hated it until I read some accounts that seemed absolutely deplorable to me, but all parties involved including the victims thought it was hillarious. That's when I realized, "ohhhh, this is what these people do!" They do it and they expect it ^^ As long as you understand the mindset, you can float along in the same stream without getting rubbed the wrong way ^^ There are occasional insufferable turds, but they are few and far between. You can have fun where you are if you want to. Start by giving up and dropping all expectations ^^

Dang, you can't watch the vid! It's a classic, and you are only depriving yourself of knowledge that you just may not have! It's a 9 second clip actually. But. Deep. Thought provoking. Chilling. Check it out if you get the time somehow, somewhere. I highly recommend.

I know what you mean, though. Ironically, I love PVP, always played PVP since eq1, played PVP on RZ, SZ, then Zek. Then went to PVP on eq2. Then went to WAR for PVP. Then went to SWTOR for PVP! Problem I have with PVP on P99 red is it has too small a population for my taste. If it had the pop that blue has, I probably would have started on Red for sure, but it never has since I began playing on P99.

I can handle PVP and the drama it brings I never rage over what others say or when I lose, and I like the competitiveness of PVP. I also value a population and sadly P99 Red does not have that.

[maskedmelon]

Dang, you can't watch the vid! It's a classic, and you are only depriving yourself of knowledge that you just may not have! It's a 9 second clip actually. But. Deep. Thought provoking. Chilling. Check it out if you get the time somehow, somewhere. I highly recommend.

I know what you mean, though. Ironically, I love PVP, always played PVP since eq1, played PVP on RZ, SZ, then Zek. Then went to PVP on eq2. Then went to WAR for PVP. Then went to SWTOR for PVP! Problem I have with PVP on P99 red is it has too small a population for my taste. If it had the pop that blue has, I probably would have started on Red for sure, but it never has since I began playing on P99.

I can handle PVP and the drama it brings I never rage over what others say or when I lose, and I like the competitiveness of PVP. I also value a population and sadly P99 Red does not have that.

I'll check it out ^^ Point wasn't about pvp though, it was about malleability and understanding culture. There are a lot of shenanigans that used to go on on red. To people who don't hail from that environment some of it can seem odd or even disgusting. If you understand the culture though, that's just what they do! Same goes for whatever guild you are in. You can leave to seek out others like yourself, or seek out those people where you are and embrace the differences if you are ally want to see the content. It's a personal choice and those people aren't preventing your fun ^^ You are.

[Lhancelot]

Because I was totally being literal, right...? *facepalm*

The point I am trying to make is this guy seems very negative which doesn't tend to attract lots of friends. It takes time to build friendships. It takes effort to help others and build your reputation as someone who helps others. You can't join a guild where no one knows you and expect everyone to go out of their way and invest their time to help applicant #23019923912 get epiced so they can go rejoin their casual guild. Over time you will build friendships, if you make an effort to do so, in any guild. There's no special exception to this just because a guild raids a lot.

haha... I write a negative post about my personal experience in a raid guild, and so obviously I must be a negative person, right? That seems about right.

That's the funniest thing about people, as soon as someone experiences something different than someone else, then that other person must be weird, bad, odd, or negative. Or even better, friendless.

If my "tone" in the thread sounds a little down, well, guess what? It's meant to be, because I actually am disappointed in how this panned out! I had higher hopes, for sure.

That being said, I honestly don't think you have enough to go on from this thread to accurately determine my personality type and social activities in or out of the game. :p

Me personally, I am at a point where I understand that some things simply work for one, while for others it doesn't. If you find that this specific guild works well for you, and you enjoy it that's great. I don't, and that's just how it is. I am sure I aint the only one that feels this way.

As for soaking up DKP like 50% of guild members do as someone in this thread recommended, I rather not do that. Believe it or not, I rather be useful and enjoy the process than just ride the pixel machine with no emotional investment to it. That's not cool for me, or for the guild imo.

[Sorn]

Didn't realize I said "I have no friends". Let me clarify that I do have friends. I have friends outside the game, and I even have friends on p99.

Why did you think I meant you had no friends at all? D: I would never think that of anyone! There's really no need to explain that you have friends. You seem like a nice, thoughtful person. But you do need to form bonds in most guilds if you want help on stuff from guild mates. Human nature and all that.

[Joyelle]

If you are uncomfortable where you are then the best advice would be to leave and find a smaller guild, like others have said. On P99 of course, that will come at the price of likely not experiencing the bleeding edge content. Large raid guilds probably all operate in pretty much the same way, and that way isn't always a fit for everybody.

Raiding can be stressful at times, and there is a lot of behind the scenes organization that goes into it. If you show up to a particular mob without having done at least a little homework on what you should do during the encounter you can't expect people to hold your hand during it.

Find out who your class leader is, and ask them during down time. If they can't help you out then they have no business being a class leader. If your guild has recruiters, ask them. If they can't answer your question then they should be able to find someone who can. Again if they can't be bothered to do that they aren't worth their weight. I'm sure your guild has forums. Go there and ask, find out what you should be doing.

You get back what you put in, and if you really are putting that much effort into the guild and it's not being reciprocated at all, then that's probably not the right place for you.

I truly hope you find a home that suits you, after all we are supposed to be playing this game for fun.

[paulgiamatti]

If you were in one of the "C" guilds I mentioned, then I really don't blame you at all for not wanting to make friends with any of them.

And also, the funny thing about guilds like Awakened and Aftermath is that even though they're "super hardcore dominant mega" guilds, you'll find that their playerbases consist largely of warm bodies who can simply answer batphones 24 hours a day and follow orders. Their leadership and playmakers I'm sure are some of if not the most talented players on the server, but it never fails to surprise me how many absolute idiots who can barely perform their class role at the most basic level there are in these guilds. And these are the people responsible for blocking more level-headed and even-keeled guilds out of basically all the end-game content, ensuring that only their derpy incompetent masses get the best items.

[Lhancelot]

I'll check it out ^^ Point wasn't about pvp though, it was about malleability and understanding culture. There are a lot of shenanigans that used to go on on red. To people who don't hail from that environment some of it can seem odd or even disgusting. If you understand the culture though, that's just what they do! Same goes for whatever guild you are in. You can leave to seek out others like yourself, or seek out those people where you are and embrace the differences if you are ally want to see the content. It's a personal choice and those people aren't preventing your fun ^^ You are.

I know what your point was, about embracing the fish in the pond or heading off to a different pond to try to find fish more like myself. It's a very good point, actually.

Concerning PVP It's like that on all PVP games though, the competetiveness of PVPers is vast and when egos are involved in personal battles like they are in PVP on a MMO tempers fly, people cheat, all kinds of crazy stuff happens. That's PVP and that's why it gives a much higher adrenaline rush than any PVE ever could. Once you play PVP it's hard to go back to a game that's full PVE and that's been a weird adjustment for me too.

The PVE on EQ1 is so challenging though that I find it fun enough to hold my attention. It's not PVP though, for sure.

I felt like segueing into chatting about PVP and my history with other games just because I find some of the comments in this thread to be a bit narrowminded and judgmental.

I am about down with this thread though, it is a negative thread and really serves no point now. I appreciate your feedback though, both thoughtful and insightful. :)

[maskedmelon]

Good! Hope you find a spot that works for you :3

[Loke]

You say you want to experience high end content, and that is what raid guilds are good at. If you want to make friends, the guild isn't going to help you with that.. you're on your own there. Simply sharing a guild tag with 150 other people doesn't automatically make them your friends.

You mention people "thirsting for loot" and "forgetting about common decency".. care to expand on that with specific examples? Most guild loot distribution is pretty fair from what I've noticed. If you're talking about non-raid farm groups and stuff, maybe you should look at it from their perspective. I don't farm cash camps because I like it, I do it because there is shit I want. Farming is like a job. If I showed up to your job, wasn't needed, and contributed very little, and then asked for 1/2 your paycheck, you'd probably find that unreasonable. That is what it is like when you expect to be included in some stranger's farm group simply because you share a tag.

Want to make friends? Start your own shit. No one likes and unnecessary mooch, but everyone likes someone who gets things going. Asking for help when it only benefits you makes you look greedy, but asking for help when the people helping can get something out of it is going to make you a popular guy. Most people are going to exclude you when they're farming because they don't want to be an ass and tell you they don't need you, and you'd just cut into the efficiency of what they're trying to do (e.g. get a specific item, or make some plat), but I doubt they'd care if you let them know you just wanted to hang out and didn't care about the loot.

I personally don't think it is inherently greedy to not want some random new guy to cut into your bottom line when you're trying to farm. We all need plat and all want new items, and if you expect to be included you need to bring something to the table. I've been duoing with friends and had some random person hit me up asking if we wanted to team up and take a harder camp with better loot... doing that made sense and the player asking was bringing something to the table. If that person had just been like "hey, want to unnecessarily turn your duo into a trio?" I'd have probably told them to kick rocks.

Your issue seems to be that you expect others to make sacrifices for you simply because you share a guild tag, when what you should really be doing is finding ways to make yourself a valued addition. Raid guilds deal with raiding.. make yourself valuable on raids and you're kosher as far as the guild is concerned. If you want to make friends and get included in non-raid stuff though, you have to give people a reason to include you.

[heartbrand]

Welcome to basically every raiding guild in MMO's nowadays. Also good use of the word Kosher.

[Lhancelot]

If you are uncomfortable where you are then the best advice would be to leave and find a smaller guild, like others have said. On P99 of course, that will come at the price of likely not experiencing the bleeding edge content. Large raid guilds probably all operate in pretty much the same way, and that way isn't always a fit for everybody.

Raiding can be stressful at times, and there is a lot of behind the scenes organization that goes into it. If you show up to a particular mob without having done at least a little homework on what you should do during the encounter you can't expect people to hold your hand during it.

Find out who your class leader is, and ask them during down time. If they can't help you out then they have no business being a class leader. If your guild has recruiters, ask them. If they can't answer your question then they should be able to find someone who can. Again if they can't be bothered to do that they aren't worth their weight. I'm sure your guild has forums. Go there and ask, find out what you should be doing.

You get back what you put in, and if you really are putting that much effort into the guild and it's not being reciprocated at all, then that's probably not the right place for you.

I truly hope you find a home that suits you, after all we are supposed to be playing this game for fun.

Thanks, and I am enjoying some lower lvl alts now! Taking a break from my "main". As for class leader, never was given any class leader or told who I could talk to for instruction on raids. I just kind of watched and learned when not sure, and sent tells to people who seemed to know what they were doing.

I think so many people are doing what needs to be done, that it wasn't necessary for me to be an active participant that really mattered. As someone else said, I honestly believe that 50% of the members simply follow where to go, soak up DKP and are content getting what loots drip down to them over time. I find that process to be a waste of time, and not fun.

It boils down to the guild aint for me, I think that's just how the cookie crumbles. :)

[skarlorn]

pro tip don't raid video games it's a stupid trick for addicts just level up and have fun then help your friends level up then quit when it gets boring.

[Lhancelot]

You say you want to experience high end content, and that is what raid guilds are good at. If you want to make friends, the guild isn't going to help you with that.. you're on your own there. Simply sharing a guild tag with 150 other people doesn't automatically make them your friends.

You mention people "thirsting for loot" and "forgetting about common decency".. care to expand on that with specific examples? Most guild loot distribution is pretty fair from what I've noticed. If you're talking about non-raid farm groups and stuff, maybe you should look at it from their perspective. I don't farm cash camps because I like it, I do it because there is shit I want. Farming is like a job. If I showed up to your job, wasn't needed, and contributed very little, and then asked for 1/2 your paycheck, you'd probably find that unreasonable. That is what it is like when you expect to be included in some stranger's farm group simply because you share a tag.

Want to make friends? Start your own shit. No one likes and unnecessary mooch, but everyone likes someone who gets things going. Asking for help when it only benefits you makes you look greedy, but asking for help when the people helping can get something out of it is going to make you a popular guy. Most people are going to exclude you when they're farming because they don't want to be an ass and tell you they don't need you, and you'd just cut into the efficiency of what they're trying to do (e.g. get a specific item, or make some plat), but I doubt they'd care if you let them know you just wanted to hang out and didn't care about the loot.

I personally don't think it is inherently greedy to not want some random new guy to cut into your bottom line when you're trying to farm. We all need plat and all want new items, and if you expect to be included you need to bring something to the table. I've been duoing with friends and had some random person hit me up asking if we wanted to team up and take a harder camp with better loot... doing that made sense and the player asking was bringing something to the table. If that person had just been like "hey, want to unnecessarily turn your duo into a trio?" I'd have probably told them to kick rocks.

Your issue seems to be that you expect others to make sacrifices for you simply because you share a guild tag, when what you should really be doing is finding ways to make yourself a valued addition. Raid guilds deal with raiding.. make yourself valuable on raids and you're kosher as far as the guild is concerned. If you want to make friends and get included in non-raid stuff though, you have to give people a reason to include you.

Nah man. You are missing my point in many different ways, and I understand farming for items, making money, come on... I get all that. You are going all over the place here and thinking you understand my concerns and issues with the guild, but you are off base here.

I understand all of what you described, I have no trouble getting money for items, farming for items, etc., etc. I have everything I own due to my own diligence and time invested in the game. I aint the richest player, but I am not a poor fellow either.

Again, I also have no trouble finding people to do stuff with. It's not hard. What is hard is when you try to do stuff with people in an established guild that all seem to have their own established groups and pals who they only group with for their own personal agendas.

I joined the guild for a richer experience socially that involved raiding higher end content, I did not find this personally with this guild. That's pretty much it.

Your point of sharing a guild tag with 150 others and it not making them your friends is on point though, and that's one thing I personally am at fault with for not realizing. For some reason I thought that being tagged with others meant I was working towards bettering not just myself but others who may not be "friends", but who were guildies and I thought that meant something. A bit idealistic, and naive on my part. :p

[picklefixer]

I think we might be in the same guild! Also, seeing members fawn over the token fat chick in the guild is so cringeworthy. Meh, when I joined the server three months ago I think I had an idea like you "oh cool I get to go on raids now like I never had time to on live, it shouldn't be hotly contested or anything in this old game... Right?"

I had this same idealistic thinking about 6 years ago when I installed P99...but in my defense I had hit the crack pipe pretty hard just before hand...so you know.

I have not even seen a Dragon yet...although i came close once when i got AoE Feared by the one in EJ...i think.

Just now coming back from a 1 year /afk...ain't shit changed but the time my friends!

<Insert SweetAss Sig Here>
Mrtwig 60 Druid

[Lhancelot]

I had this same idealistic thinking about 6 years ago when I installed P99...but in my defense I had hit the crack pipe pretty hard just before hand...so you know.

I have not even seen a Dragon yet...although i came close once when i got AoE Feared by the one in EJ...i think.

Just now coming back from a 1 year /afk...ain't shit changed but the time my friends!

<Insert SweetAss Sig Here>
Mrtwig 60 Druid

That's pretty much how it is. Depending on the person, the experience is going to be different. I originally had this idea that the guild was bad, then I thought ok, no, I am bad, and now I understand it's neither.

It's how I perceive and process the experience whether it is bad or not.

I think sometimes, a person can alter how one processes an experience, while other times it's just impossible or not worth the effort in changing how things are processed.

Like my UK buddy says, I can't be "assed" to change how I process this experience, it's just better for me if I stick with how I already process things and enjoy them.

Gonna keep my eyes open for a smaller guild to join, and in the mean while just play and group up, XP, etc., like I always did before which is what I enjoy most on this game.