What does Casual Raiding really mean here?

[tobolamr]

When I was playing years ago... god I can't believe I'm old enough to say that... :eek:
:rolleyes:

My observation was that one major raid group kind of ran the raid scene, and then some of the larger guilds filled in behind them. They all had a system to track who, what, when, and if a person got to loot drops. Which is all fine and dandy! The raids I went on lasted... well... they went for a very, very long time, with multiple targets hit in one massive session. Not sure if that's how it goes here or not... I only went on about 5 or 6, and then things occurred such that I left EQ.

But I guess I'm curious if I could be brought up to speed on what we mean by Casual raiding, versus other approaches? I'm still all in noob stage with myself and the family, but am trying to learn about this all. I'd like to know how this works here. And any other very helpful thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks!

[pathius41]

no such thing here

[Nune]

Casual Raiding generally means you hit raid targets or farm raid zones but dont poopsock/batphone spawns and theres a grey area on FTE

[sandstorm6564]

Casual raiding means not waiting for VS spawn EVERY time he is ready or about to spawn! Casual raiding is really laid back. If I could be there, I would. If I couldn't, I wouldn't. The guild didn't care either way. Now, I should say I was a druid. I bet they would care if you were the MT or cleric :)

[maskedmelon]

Casual raiding involves scheduling raids for non-contested or rotated content that last several hours as you described in OP.

Top end raiding means logging in for 10-15 minutes in response to tweets whenever a dragon pops. The backbone of this, or "hardcore" raiders are those who sit and wait for the targets to spawn and then tweet to their team. It is more often a shared responsibility in which multiple people may share or rotate the burden of "tracking" said targets by screen sharing. All non-named mobs in this approach are generally either trained away or AEd. It is infinitely less onerous/time-consuming than classic raiding but for a few people who put in extra time for their team and are shamed by the community for their contributions.

[Bohab]

casual raiding means your guild doesn't have the core/playmakers/racers/lawyers to compete against the top guilds. You still raid every single day... but you cap out on gear and leave the casual guild for a hardcore guild since you're playing 24/7 anyhow.

[paulgiamatti]

Simple definition for P99:

Hardcore raiding guilds = Awakened & Aftermath

Casual raiding guilds = all other guilds that raid regularly

So there's a spectrum of what "casual raiding" entails - you have the more serious casual raiders like Divinity, Anonymous, Rustle, CSG, etc., who have a small core of hardcore raiders but are generally accommodating to a more casual playstyle, and you have guilds that raid semi-regularly but don't really have that core of hardcore people like Infernus, Clue, Fires of Heaven, et al.

[Nune]

Simple definition for P99:

Hardcore raiding guilds = Awakened & Aftermath & CSG

Casual raiding guilds = all other guilds that raid regularly

ftfy

[paulgiamatti]

Nah, all CSG guilds are definitely casual - as Nemce said of AG, they just offer players the opportunity to do all the life-ruining things that hardcore guilds do as well. Omni is probably the most hardcore guild in CSG and they have one scheduled raid per week and don't operate on DKP. AG and Europa use DKP but don't mandate raiding while you're online or take away your spending ability for having poor raid attendance.

But yeah I'd put CSG as an entity on the top of the "serious casual raiding guilds" list.

[paulgiamatti]

I guess the main difference between CSG and A/A is demonstrated by this thread: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253763

In a CSG guild that would never happen. They'd either just ask you politely if you want to help kill a dragon or figure since you're anonymous that you don't want to be bothered and leave you alone.

Although, I just realized that thread is about Rustle, which is mostly comprised of ex-A/A hardcore people. I think they just call themselves casual for cool points though.

[kotton05]

Rustle = non tracking guild, we dont award dkp for staring at screens unlike a/a but they can still mobilize and kill the same as A/a, thats a casual raiding guild, actually can clear VP and ToV themselves.

in a stark comparision a Casual Scum Guild can pretty much clear HoT/fear/hate themselves but not much else and may occasionally see a rare raid target.

[paulgiamatti]

That's mostly a fair description. Although, if I were still in CSG and still carried that pride, that comparison would probably piss me off because each guild in CSG technically "can" clear everything in the game except Sleeper's Tomb.

They can't competitively clear it, but the difficulty isn't in the content. Same with Anonymous and Divinity. The difficulty is in the FTE race, which I absolutely hate and think is antifun. When I signed up for P99 what I really hoped for was a nostalgia trip where I could just experience the content of the game with people who I want to experience it with.

On P99 you can't do that, because A/A gets a lot of enjoyment from dominating the server and blocking others out of content. The end-game content for most casual raiding guilds is doable, it's just insanely hard to beat the hardcore guilds to the punch, and insanely hard to beat end-game content with other guilds breathing down your neck waiting for a vulture kill, and it's also an unclassic experience.

I mean if you had a CSG guild go up against Vulak they'd get owned. But then they'd rez up, modify their strategy, and try again. Sooner or later they'd get it down, and the dragon would die. You don't get to do that on P99, and I think that sucks.

[Vallanor]

Rustle = non tracking guild, we dont award dkp for staring at screens unlike a/a but they can still mobilize and kill the same as A/a, thats a casual raiding guild, actually can clear VP and ToV themselves.

in a stark comparision a Casual Scum Guild can pretty much clear HoT/fear/hate themselves but not much else and may occasionally see a rare raid target.

You're definitely downplaying how many raid targets CSG is capable of. As PaulG said, the hyper-competitive nature of the raid scene prevents us from doing ToV and super high end Velious mobs most of the time, but this last repop netted us a Yelinak and Klandicar kill among other things. You're more closely describing an actual casual guild closer to something like Paradox or Veloci Shift. CSG isn't really "that" casual.

[paulgiamatti]

I think he's spot on - he's saying *a* casual scum guild, not CSG as a force. And I pretty much agree - there is very little that each CSG guild does individually except HoT, Vindi, and the planes.

But again, a lot of that isn't because they're incapable of beating the content - it has more to do with server and inter-guild politics. Each guild in CSG can easily kill all Kunark dragons outside VP, but they still team up for them because it's just easier. Same with stuff like Vindi, Velk, sometimes HoT - these are things that CSG guilds can do competitively, but there isn't much else because P99 is hypercompetitive and doesn't allow for mulligans.

[Vallanor]

I think he's spot on - he's saying *a* casual scum guild, not CSG as a force. And I pretty much agree, there is very little that each CSG guild does individually except HoT, Vindi, and the planes.

Ohh okay. That makes more sense. I still take exception to him saying we "can" clear HoT, planes and not much else. We definitely "can" do a lot more than that, even though individually we don't all that often.

[paulgiamatti]

P99 is hypercompetitive and doesn't allow for mulligans.

And bear in mind, this is being extremely generous. Most of the time you don't even get firstigans, even when you legitimately outmobilize and win the FTE, because griefing people is rewarded on P99 - and to your typical hardcore raiding sociopath, an enjoyable experience. Someone will find a way to flop a train on you from the other side of the zone so that their guild gets the mob.

In my experience, this is most often how competitive raiding goes. The server is inundated with people who get their kicks from it, and they'll tell you to petition your fraps before they act like human beings or work out a compromise. It's seldomly fun.

[Raev]

Basically there are three levels of guilds:

Casual: raid a few times a week, maybe 10-15 total hours total. Probably do some combination of HOT, Sky, Vindi, etc. Examples: Infernus, Fires of Heaven.
Hardcore: have at least a few people willing to FTE/race/batphone at most times. Do casual content plus some of the slightly less contested stuff like Kunark dragons, TOV west, ST dragons. I'd say only Rustle and CSG occupy this slot. And I guess Venerate.
Need an intervention by loved ones: Have FTE racers staring at the wall and competing (I use this word in a very loose sense) for every raid target and batphoning them 24/7. Get the vast majority of BIS loot. This is basically Aftermath and Awakened.


Generally the way it works is that people start out some level of Casual/Hardcore and then join A/A after not progressing their character for 6 months once they hit that HOT/Epic stage. Some just enjoy it, but I would say more burn out and either ghost or go back to the casual level after getting a few pieces of gear. Or they get kicked for interfering with the Chardok RMT mafia.

[kotton05]

I think he's spot on - he's saying *a* casual scum guild, not CSG as a force. And I pretty much agree - there is very little that each CSG guild does individually except HoT, Vindi, and the planes.

But again, a lot of that isn't because they're incapable of beating the content - it has more to do with server and inter-guild politics. Each guild in CSG can easily kill all Kunark dragons outside VP, but they still team up for them because it's just easier. Same with stuff like Vindi, Velk, sometimes HoT - these are things that CSG guilds can do competitively, but there isn't much else because P99 is hypercompetitive and doesn't allow for mulligans.

your last line really sums it up, along with all your other points!

to the AG who commented to me about "not" being able to do things. I'm referring to at the drop of hat being able to out mobilize for a target thats tracked by top guilds and win fte etc... I know you guys have SERIOUS numbers. AG came in HUGE at the AoW kill iirc like 50 or so folks.

[thufir]

Simple definition for P99:

Hardcore raiding guilds = Awakened & Aftermath

Casual raiding guilds = all other guilds that raid regularly

So there's a spectrum of what "casual raiding" entails - you have the more serious casual raiders like Divinity, Anonymous, Rustle, CSG, etc., who have a small core of hardcore raiders but are generally accommodating to a more casual playstyle, and you have guilds that raid semi-regularly but don't really have that core of hardcore people like Infernus, Clue, Fires of Heaven, et al.

as a casual player I think casual raiding involves most or all of the following:
- no dkp
- no required raid attendance
- raids are generally impromptu, not scheduled
- lax about level requirements
- no tracking, socking, or batphones

not many guilds on p99 fit this bill, granted, but some do. I look at most guilds that raid as not-very-casual. they generally require a significantly higher time commitment than I and most casual players I know are willing to invest in the game. so it's hard for me to call this a definition of "casual raiding". suppose it's all relative.

and yes, I'm aware that following these guidelines will get you few if any high end targets, but I look at that as somebody else's problem. ain't worth it for me. being able to say that is probably a good a definition of "casual" as any.

[kotton05]

basically casual can mean a few things, one thing it doesnt mean is mouthbreathing for pixels for 16 hours at a time i think we all agree on that.

[tobolamr]

Thank you all very much. I'd still take any other thoughts or input on this, too.

I've got a ways to go before I'll think about raiding LOL But I'm re-hooked on EQ, and can't wait to keep leveling!