Patch Notes: Monday, September 5th, 2016

[Rogean]

The latest patch contains new required files. Download and extract the Project 1999 Files (V43) (http://www.project1999.com/files/P99Files43.zip) to your EQ Titanium Directory.

Changes regarding AE Spells
Recently the staff had internal discussions related to the effectiveness of various AE methods being used by players, specifically that the number of mobs being killed at once far exceeded what was possible back in the day of classic Everquest. When determining what prevented this from being possible during Classic, we found that it was not necessarily mechanical, but more technological reasons that limited it. For example, having 100 mobs in one tiny area would not have happened back then for several reasons such as PC Processing power (CPU/Video constraints), networking bandwidth requriements (56k lol), and quite possibly server limitations at the time as well.

While we do not aim to kill AE groups by any means, we do have to put some limitations on the number of mobs being killed at once, providing significant XP gain with very little risk, as well as the zone disruptions that have come with it. Therefor, we have decided to put an upper limit of 25 targets on all detrimental AE spells. This means that once 25 targets have been hit with the spell (including resists), it will no longer attempt to hit any more targets.

This affects all player vs npc detrimental Target AE and PBAE spells including Nukes, Stuns, Songs, and etc. We will continue to evalulate this to determine if any further changes are needed.

Changelog
Code

Haynar: Mobs on a grid, who pause when hailed, will no longer skip a grid point when they resume pathing.
Haynar: Stationary mobs with quests, who face their target after hailing, will return to face their original heading after a delay.
Haynar: Feared or fleeing mobs in a zone with separate pathing node regions, will prefer nodes within their region when finding a location to flee.
Haynar: Fixed an issue with guardian wurm type mobs falling into the ground.

Content

Nilbog: [May2001] Fixed the Spell Scroll for Imbue Amber so that Erudite Clerics of Cazic Thule can scribe it.
Nilbog: [Apr2001] Warrior epic combines now produce a new container, which allows for a sword of runes to replace lost epic swords. As the original eqlive patch notes state, the new scabbard and swords will appear on your cursor. Once you have combined them, make sure you have enough room in your inventory.
Nilbog: [Jun2001] Egress is now castable indoors.
Nilbog: [Jun2001] Wind of the North, Wind of the South, Markar's Relocation and Tishan's Relocation have had their additional restrictions removed, and can now be cast from any zone where other similar spells can be cast.
Nilbog: [Jun2001] There is now a vendor in Felwithe that sells the Enchant Ores series of enchanter spells.
Nilbog: [Jun2001] Changed the forged Antonian Javelins to be stackable.
Nilbog: [Jun2001] Rangers will now be able to wear Girdle of Reflection.
Nilbog: [Jun2001] a lizard ritualist spawns in cazicthule.
Nilbog: Corrected Kinool Goldsinger's dialogue.
Nilbog: Cyanelle discusses Eldreth if prompted.
Nilbog: Lake Rathe: gnolls and undead at the ruins have more varied levels and spawn chances. gnolls are white texture during the day. gnoll noble now exists.
Nilbog: Human wizards of Bertoxxulous now spawn with a guild note.
Nilbog: Dovon Traical no longer spawns
Nilbog: Vilefang's respawn timer has been increased.
Nilbog: Quest issues with Ulan Meadowgreen have been corrected.
Nilbog: Taia Lyfol has additional dialogue.
Nilbog: necromancer class vampire bats are more common in Erud's Crossing.
Nilbog: Circlet of Silver Skies now has a chance to drop.
Nilbog: pained unicorn checks player level before discussing quests.
Nilbog: Iron Sulphide, Lead Peroxide, Quicksilver and White Lead are now no fail combines that do not provide skill ups.
Nilbog: Erudite cultural armor: Added missing recipes and corrected issues with existing recipes producing wrong pieces.
Nilbog: Blood Sacs and Leech Husks are more common in swampofnohope.
Nilbog: Frundle Frenkler gives Velium Purifier by asking about velium vapors instead of the vial.
Nilbog: 'Drolvarg Teeth' quest rewards more experience.
Nilbog: 'Brell Serilis Disciple' quest implemented.
Nilbog: Himart Kichith accepts Cripple as a turn in for 'Shaman Spells (Evil-Iksar)'.
Nilbog: permarooted npcs no longer flee.
Nilbog: Spell: Tumultuous Strength drops from more npcs.
Nilbog: Cleaned up the cyclops area of Rathe Mountains.
Nilbog: The following tradeskill recipes now work: Imbued Platinum Diamond Ring, Imbued Electrum Plains Earring, Imbued Platinum Plains Ring, Imbued Silver Plains Ring, Imbued Black Sapphire Silver Necklace, Imbued Black Sapphire Electrum Earring, Imbued Gold Black Sapphire Earring, Imbued Black Sapphire Platinum Necklace
Nilbog: Massive Heartwood Thorn's stats have been reverted to classic.
Nilbog: Fine splinted cloak trivial increased to 242.
Nilbog: Merchant Niwiny now spawns.
Nilbog: Faerie loot in lfaydark/gfaydark cleaned up.
Nilbog: Gorul Longshanks now itemized.
Nilbog: Door to Half Elf Maiden in Cabilis is now locked. Added loottable for Half Elf Maiden.
Nilbog: Cinnamon Sticks cannot currently be foraged. They will be available again when Stonebrunt is released.
Telin: Increased drop rate for armor and other items in Runnyeye.
Telin: Factions in Gorge of King Xorbb and High Keep goblins have been revamped.
Telin: Changed the name of "a huge water elemental" in Lower Guk to the classic "an huge water elemental" and increased its level range and difficulty.
Telin: Updated faction hits and aggro/death messages for Gash Flockwalker, Lylanthian, Ellisha, Jracol Brestiage.
Telin: Implemented Interrogator's Badge quest.
Telin: Adjust faction for killing Isabella Cellus, Prak, and Guard Stald.
Telin: Slightly reduced the respawn time of Pickclaw goblins in High Keep
Telin: Added a crazed goblin, a goblin, a pickclaw visionary, and a goblin thief to High Keep.
Telin: Added additional loot to Isabella Cellus.
Telin: Implemented The Sword of Nobility (Ghoulbane) quest. Added all associated quest mobs and loot.
Telin: Greatly increased faction hits for the Rogue Errands quest.
Telin: Shadow wolves in West Karana now roam.

[Cyph]

Nice patch log, thanks devs & team!

[Atmas]

Nice notes, still looking for those hybrid skill caps fix :)

[Achromatic]

Therefor, we have decided to put an upper limit of 25 targets on all detrimental AE spells. This means that once 25 targets have been hit with the spell (including resists), it will no longer attempt to hit any more targets.

RIP bards and Chardok AE

[Fame]

Does this mean bard kiting is over?

[Ezelkir]

Thank you!!

[Vatras]

not classic!!!! bye

[Xulia]

Thank you devs!

[Aquelin]

Does this mean bard kiting is over?

Not by the looks of it? It should only increase the amount of time it takes to down a kite. Chardok AE, on the other hand, should take a significant blow from this, since it affects the stuns as well.

[poena.dare]

Thank you!

[Pindrought]

Does this mean bard kiting is over?

No it means if a bard pulls 100 mobs, it will take the bard 4x as long to kill them now.

[Achromatic]

No it means if a bard pulls 100 mobs, it will take the bard 4x as long to kill them now.

how will they snare 100 mobs?

[Kiwix]

how will they snare 100 mobs?

PBAoE (up untill now) snare isnt before lvl 54. Up untill then its done without snare.

[Pindrought]

how will they snare 100 mobs?

No bards use snare when AE kiting. Snare is used for power leveling.

[ergo]

not classic!!!! bye


Lots of things arent classic, you were here for classic?

[Mortiis]

RIP bards and Chardok AE


This.


Will Troll cultural armor ever make it's way into a patch at some point?

[thebutthat]

I had 500KB/s badwith in 1997. 56k was for the poors.

[Rokzor]

Say 'What velium vial?' to Frundle Frenkler and recieve the Velium Purifier

Not working currently.

[Izmael]

Telin: Changed the name of "a huge water elemental" in Lower Guk to the classic "an huge water elemental"

GOOD GOD. FINALLY!

Thanks.

[Kerwin]

Nilbog: [Jun2001] Wind of the North, Wind of the South, Markar's Relocation and Tishan's Relocation have had their additional restrictions removed, and can now be cast from any zone where other similar spells can be cast.

yay

[Ravager]

not classic!!!! bye
Nerfing exploits is a big part of the classic experience.

[Nikkanu]

Changes regarding AE Spells
Recently the staff had internal discussions related to the effectiveness of various AE methods being used by players, specifically that the number of mobs being killed at once far exceeded what was possible back in the day of classic Everquest. When determining what prevented this from being possible during Classic, we found that it was not necessarily mechanical, but more technological reasons that limited it. For example, having 100 mobs in one tiny area would not have happened back then for several reasons such as PC Processing power (CPU/Video constraints), networking bandwidth requriements (56k lol), and quite possibly server limitations at the time as well.

While I fully support the killing of Chardok AOE groups and appreciate the immense amounts of hard work that has been into making this server successful, why would you decide to be dishonest about your reasoning and completely change one of the biggest raid encounters in the game to do so?

In 2001 I worked for an ISP and had access to a T1 whenever I wanted, and 128K ISDN lines were cheap and readily available in the city where I lived. EQ doesn't use enough data to even saturate a 128k ISDN line, even when AOEing. Either option was better than playing EQ than my current rural wireless ISP with ping times of 100+ in 2016. By 2001 we were up to 1.7GHz Pentium 4s and Nvidia GForce3 video cards... which were more than capable of AoEing zones like Chardok, Seb, Fear, etc. In fact me and friends often did just that. I'm willing to bet you could still do an AOE groups (before this nerf anyways) on p99 with a P4 1.7Ghz and a GForce3 video card with the graphics turned down and logs turned off, no problem!

Both in 2001 on Live and on p99 In we had no problems AOEing fear for CT in 1 or 2 pulls at most, now that will require a minimum of 8 AOE pulls making it take much longer and adding significantly to the lag in the zone and server stress as guilds have much more time to mobilize lots more people for CT now.

[nyclin]

Yeah my guild was definitely AE pulling fear for CT during Velious. We pulled the entire zone at once. This change is not classic at all. The justification makes no sense. Yes, my framer ate would drop into the teens and my PC would beg for mercy, but it worked and it happened on live.

Guessing this is another one of those super classic changes that will never be reverted despite the mountains of evidence that will come up.

[Laugher]

Grind is classic. Hooray for the non-karnor evacs

[Daldaen]

In classic, most players actually AE'd in Sebilis.

I look forward to AE Groups popping up in Sebilis, pulling 25 mobs a pop won't be too bad, only need 1-2 enchanters for that too.

[Tinino]

Talking about 56k, minimal pc/server specs etc... lot of speculations there. This is a poor excuse to justify your move.
You seem to not like the smart players who play the game the way you don't know/like it. Like 3 years ago when the lame GM you banned who was spying me in HS and thought I was cheating because I was able to solo pull many rooms (lol...)

Nerfing AoE, why not. But consider that a lot of ppl became rich & powerfull by using it. This is an important change and to be fair, you should wipe the servers.

[Faywind]

Im loving all the tears. Good job devs!! Sucks all you blue server nerds will have to actually level up legit now.

People still play on red? Must be fun :D

[Tinino]

People still play on red? Must be fun :D

Project 1999 PvP
Status: UP
Players: 32


32 players have fun.

[Adcid]

Not by the looks of it? It should only increase the amount of time it takes to down a kite. Chardok AE, on the other hand, should take a significant blow from this, since it affects the stuns as well.

Agreed. This will only affect the speed at which a bard can kill, not the size of their swarms. Other groups such as Chardok will have a larger impact.

[Xadion]

Still seeking knight 2h change/buff/update

and plz fix lifetaps/HT - I don't think 45+ players are standing by to ivyanderhoop trak down instantly anymore >_<

[Nikkanu]

Still seeking knight 2h change/buff/update

and plz fix lifetaps/HT - I don't think 45+ players are standing by to ivyanderhoop trak down instantly anymore >_<

Doesn't it make sense to totally nerf the shit out of two classes instead of just changing the spell effect of one item (or just removing that effect from the item)? I mean come on. Obviously this was a well thought out change that has remained for years now...

[Profyx]

Time to level bards to every level range for duo PL's, disrupt the zone 4 times longer, then delevel the bard back down and repeat.

[lonmoer]

Terrible decision.

[khanable]

Fuck yeah. Thanks devs!

[rollin5k]

Bout time, great decision!

[paroxysmal]

Should definitely make things interesting. There is already a group xp'ing in chardok legitimately this morning.

[Nixtar]

Time to level bards to every level range for duo PL's, disrupt the zone 4 times longer, then delevel the bard back down and repeat.

Awwww, poor bard can't claim ownership over a whole zone anymore. I know, I know, it is a class mechanic. So is AE mez, FD, mem-blur, but that doesn't mean I will use those to ruin your entire day when you swarm. Something you bards may want to think about you grief an entire zone with that pitiful excuse, "BUT IT IS A CLASS MECHANIC!!1eoene!!!!"

[Rogean]

I'm not going to speak too much to the technological reasons being given for AE nerf, as it was a general feeling amongst the staff, not just one or two people. However, there were additional reasons that changes needed to be made. Chardok AE trivializes XP Gain with loads of free time inbetween, which goes against the spirit of the entire game, not just Classic EQ. It's also one of the only spots you can do this, which is significantly unfair as a whole. Bard AE kiting also continues to cause issues with zone disruptions.

So while you may disagree with one or two of the reasons, there's certainly enough people here agreeing that the change overall needed to be made.

[Daldaen]

The way the coding selects the 25 mobs, is it similar to how the code selects the 4 or 5 mobs hit by a targetted AE spell?

For example, if I have mobs 1-10 in my kite all balled up and I cast a AE Direct Damage spell (4 target cap), every single time the server will select Mobs 1,2,3,4 (names given arbitrarily). It will continue selecting those mobs until they die or are out of range of the AE.

Will PBAE select the same 25 every time or will it be random?

[Cecily]

I'm not going to speak too much to the technological reasons being given for AE nerf, as it was a general feeling amongst the staff, not just one or two people. However, there were additional reasons that changes needed to be made. Chardok AE trivializes XP Gain with loads of free time inbetween, which goes against the spirit of the entire game, not just Classic EQ. It's also one of the only spots you can do this, which is significantly unfair as a whole. Bard AE kiting also continues to cause issues with zone disruptions.

So while you may disagree with one or two of the reasons, there's certainly enough people here agreeing that the change overall needed to be made.

/hug /hug /hug /hug /hug /hug /hug /hug /hug /hug

[khanable]

/hug /hug /hug /hug /hug /hug /hug /hug /hug /hug

[Rogean]

The way the coding selects the 25 mobs, is it similar to how the code selects the 4 or 5 mobs hit by a targetted AE spell?

For example, if I have mobs 1-10 in my kite all balled up and I cast a AE Direct Damage spell (4 target cap), every single time the server will select Mobs 1,2,3,4 (names given arbitrarily). It will continue selecting those mobs until they die or are out of range of the AE.

Will PBAE select the same 25 every time or will it be random?

Same system. IIRC it's determined by which mobs have been up the longest (thus they would be at the beginning of the zone's 'entity list'). Or it could be the mobs that have been up the shortest if it's going in reverse... I'd have to look.

[Beldan4]

While we do not aim to kill AE groups by any means, we do have to put some limitations on the number of mobs being killed at once, providing significant XP gain with very little risk,// as well as the zone disruptions that have come with it.

ok. First, I want to say on a RED server which is where I am from there is ALLWAYS sigenficant risk if anyone wants to screw you while your swarming belive me they can. snare a mob, root one, or just beat on your face while your trying to swarm. Plus lets face it, since PAOE spells from wizards and mages will hit enchanters / warriors trying to swarm those types of AE's groups don't really exist here.

Next the zone distruptions will not stop due to this, they will INCREASE. Bard pulls 100 mobs in a zone, well he'll just swarm down the first 25, then the next 25 ete. the duration of distruption has just increased possibly by a factor of 4 based on how far you are from the server and how much lag you experience.

I know red is small, but I believe we deserve a certain consiteration with this restriction. Just as we have the exp bonus to off set the fact that we can die at any time, we also have a way of dealing with our own disruptions.

I would also like to point out that swarms of this nature (ya I know same old QQ) is not "classic" infact it wasn't until just a few years ago that they finally clamped down on ALL types of swarming. Each time it was a stop gap measure, they nerf the bards, only to nerf the Eshakers, only to nerf the that clr buff, finally to nerf the beams. As far as I know they've never nerfed PBAE's.

[heartbrand]

Didn't see anything about discord on the patch notes

[feanan]

AOE changes are welcome, but 3-4 years overdue.

Nothing has probably harmed the server more than the chardok RMT AOE powerleveling mill.

[georgie]

thanks for patch, whens discord coming out

[Giovanni]

While we do not aim to kill AE groups by any means, we do have to put some limitations on the number of mobs being killed at once, providing significant XP gain with very little risk,// as well as the zone disruptions that have come with it.

ok. First, I want to say on a RED server which is where I am from there is ALLWAYS sigenficant risk if anyone wants to screw you while your swarming belive me they can. snare a mob, root one, or just beat on your face while your trying to swarm. Plus lets face it, since PAOE spells from wizards and mages will hit enchanters / warriors trying to swarm those types of AE's groups don't really exist here.

Next the zone distruptions will not stop due to this, they will INCREASE. Bard pulls 100 mobs in a zone, well he'll just swarm down the first 25, then the next 25 ete. the duration of distruption has just increased possibly by a factor of 4 based on how far you are from the server and how much lag you experience.

I know red is small, but I believe we deserve a certain consiteration with this restriction. Just as we have the exp bonus to off set the fact that we can die at any time, we also have a way of dealing with our own disruptions.

I would also like to point out that swarms of this nature (ya I know same old QQ) is not "classic" infact it wasn't until just a few years ago that they finally clamped down on ALL types of swarming. Each time it was a stop gap measure, they nerf the bards, only to nerf the Eshakers, only to nerf the that clr buff, finally to nerf the beams. As far as I know they've never nerfed PBAE's.


Need to ween these types of players on red off their non classic exp bonus nipple. Too much exp bonus the primary reason for low pop on red.

[Masakizt]

I do agree with the Chardok nerf.. although like someone said earlier the nerf for bards will only make matters worse.

Bards will still pull massive kites, but it will take them considerably longer to kill. The knock of effect of this means the mobs are tied up longer, meaning they take longer to respawn.. thus the disturbance to the zone has increased.

Consider this please GMs

[Giovanni]

I do agree with the Chardok nerf.. although like someone said earlier the nerf for bards will only make matters worse.

Bards will still pull massive kites, but it will take them considerably longer to kill. The knock of effect of this means the mobs are tied up longer, meaning they take longer to respawn.. thus the disturbance to the zone has increased.

Consider this please GMs

You admitting to causing zone disruption？

[Masakizt]

With this nerf... yes i am going to disrupt the hell out of your zone! Youre in my zone now !!

[Vexenu]

The AOE and Bard kiting nerf is a great change. Unfortunately it's too late to have a big impact on Blue at this point, but it will be tremendously positive benefit for the next server when it opens. Not only will it remove a huge RMT incentive, it will drastically reduce the glut of level 60 raid alts crowding the high end game. We'll see a much more classic raiding and 50+ leveling environment, and there will be more actual mobilizing and racing for mobs rather than just logging into various strategically located alts.

Plus it will be nice to see Chardok opened up for traditional XP groups. It's a fun and challenging zone (bring a good Paladin tank and it's much easier). And level 60 Wizards will be a rare commodity to be treasured once again.

[Sorn]

OH BOY STEELSILK IS FIXED

so excited

[Lojik]

Agreed. This will only affect the speed at which a bard can kill, not the size of their swarms. Other groups such as Chardok will have a larger impact.

I've never played a bard, but it seems like a lot of the work going into pulls is gathering as huge a swarm as you can. Why is a bard gonna waste time gathering 100 mobs when only 25 can be hit? If there's a chance that somehow some mobs are targeted for part of the ae, then something happens where other mobs are targeted and previously damaged npc has time to heal, then they really have no incentive to pull huge (100+) kites. I actually don't think this is a huge nerf to bards, just a pretty damn good change overall. Props.

[Profyx]

I've never played a bard, but it seems like a lot of the work going into pulls is gathering as huge a swarm as you can. Why is a bard gonna waste time gathering 100 mobs when only 25 can be hit? If there's a chance that somehow some mobs are targeted for part of the ae, then something happens where other mobs are targeted and previously damaged npc has time to heal, then they really have no incentive to pull huge (100+) kites. I actually don't think this is a huge nerf to bards, just a pretty damn good change overall. Props.


The AE hits the same mobs every time, and why go out and round mobs up 4 times when you can do it once and stay in your mental zone kiting for awhile

[Aadill]

The AE hits the same mobs every time, and why go out and round mobs up 4 times when you can do it once and stay in your mental zone kiting for awhile

If you aren't engaging the mobs it would be zone disruption.

[hala745]

No ragebringer haste affecting backstab fix? It's been a long time coming =(

[Ravager]

I do agree with the Chardok nerf.. although like someone said earlier the nerf for bards will only make matters worse.

Bards will still pull massive kites, but it will take them considerably longer to kill. The knock of effect of this means the mobs are tied up longer, meaning they take longer to respawn.. thus the disturbance to the zone has increased.

Consider this please GMs

I would imagine that pulling more than 25 mobs as a kiting bard could be construed as a stall.

[Raev]

Recently the staff had internal discussions related to the effectiveness of various AE methods being used by players, specifically that the number of mobs being killed at once far exceeded what was possible back in the day of classic Everquest. When determining what prevented this from being possible during Classic, we found that it was not necessarily mechanical, but more technological reasons that limited it. For example, having 100 mobs in one tiny area would not have happened back then for several reasons such as PC Processing power (CPU/Video constraints), networking bandwidth requriements (56k lol), and quite possibly server limitations at the time as well.

FUCK YES

Anyone complaining about this change needs to be taking outside and beaten with a hose. It's a huge improvement to both classicness and balance.

The AOE and Bard kiting nerf is a great change. Unfortunately it's too late to have a big impact on Blue at this point, but it will be tremendously positive benefit for the next server when it opens. Not only will it remove a huge RMT incentive, it will drastically reduce the glut of level 60 raid alts crowding the high end game. We'll see a much more classic raiding and 50+ leveling environment, and there will be more actual mobilizing and racing for mobs rather than just logging into various strategically located alts.

And yes, +100

[scirox]

Talking about 56k, minimal pc/server specs etc... lot of speculations there. This is a poor excuse to justify your move.
You seem to not like the smart players who play the game the way you don't know/like it. Like 3 years ago when the lame GM you banned who was spying me in HS and thought I was cheating because I was able to solo pull many rooms (lol...)

Nerfing AoE, why not. But consider that a lot of ppl became rich & powerfull by using it. This is an important change and to be fair, you should wipe the servers.

Wipe the servers? With what, like a cloth or something? :D

[Silvurwolf]

Is the pbaoe change a 2 way street? A raid with 25+ players can all get pbaoe'd? Or does it cap out at 25 for pc's too

[georgie]

Was waiting for shadow wolves to roam

[MHUM]

yay

[Rogean]

Is the pbaoe change a 2 way street? A raid with 25+ players can all get pbaoe'd? Or does it cap out at 25 for pc's too

pc vs npc only. Should not affect pvp.

[Lojik]

The AE hits the same mobs every time, and why go out and round mobs up 4 times when you can do it once and stay in your mental zone kiting for awhile

Because the amount of time it takes to pull 25 as opposed to 100 doesn't scale linearly. It might take 1 minute to pull 25, then another 10 to pull 75 more. How long does it take to kill, 5 minutes? You're talking 10 minutes for a pull, 20 minutes to kill (30 total) as opposed to 1 minute to pull, 5 minutes to kill x 4.

[Ele]

Not working currently.

Nilbog: Frundle Frenkler gives Velium Purifier by asking about velium vapors instead of the vial.

[Ele]

Say 'What velium vial?' to Frundle Frenkler and recieve the Velium Purifier

Not working currently.

Nilbog: Frundle Frenkler gives Velium Purifier by asking about velium vapors instead of the vial.

[Mendo]

Knight Defense is still broken

[Profyx]

Because the amount of time it takes to pull 25 as opposed to 100 doesn't scale linearly. It might take 1 minute to pull 25, then another 10 to pull 75 more. How long does it take to kill, 5 minutes? You're talking 10 minutes for a pull, 20 minutes to kill (30 total) as opposed to 1 minute to pull, 5 minutes to kill x 4.

Thats not how pulling a swarm works, u run a big circle and arent overlaping previous spots, so the pull time is linear.

Also when you only have 25 mobs u spent some time only killing 24 mobs... 23 mobs.. 22 mobs... 10 mobs... 5 mobs... 1 mob....
and u got to do that 4 times

When you have 100 you almost are always killing 25 mobs, only got to do the 24-1mobs once. Much more efficient.

[Kaezyr D`Shiv]

60 Wizard looking to get in on the ground floor of what ever new AOEing opportunities to make platinum pop up!

[pogs4ever]

planning to just set up camp by bard swarm and pull mobs without having to move, hope to pick off ones with damage done to them already. free power-level

[xplit871]

the aoe changes are about 5 years to later, now that everyone in aa has about 15 different 60s. WTF is the point now? Should have happened ages ago.

[Doctor Jeff]

Here's a trivial patch after an extrended wait! We hope you didn't think any of the bugs were going to be fixed! Have a nice day!

[Raev]

1, better late than never

2, green server is looking more classic by the minute

[Lojik]

Thats not how pulling a swarm works, u run a big circle and arent overlaping previous spots, so the pull time is linear.

Also when you only have 25 mobs u spent some time only killing 24 mobs... 23 mobs.. 22 mobs... 10 mobs... 5 mobs... 1 mob....
and u got to do that 4 times

When you have 100 you almost are always killing 25 mobs, only got to do the 24-1mobs once. Much more efficient.

/shrug, I have a hard time believing it is linear. If you go in a big circle for 100 mobs your average might be linear, but 25 mobs your circle is smaller and you don't have to travel far from pull spot, and there's less likelihood another bard or group is taking mobs out of your area. I also have a hard time believing bards will want to go 4x as long on the actual kill without a break, seeing as carpal tunnel is a serious concern for many people.

[Kaziel]

Knight fixes pls? Why is this constantly ignored?

[furny]

Please rethink the PB AE restriction. I don't think this was a good idea. Everything else is great but this AE update is unnecessary.

[Doctor Jeff]

Knight fixes pls? Why is this constantly ignored?

They want a system to be created which does the fix for them, but they don't want to develop said system.


The issue is that we need a system created which handles skill cap changes on the timeline. When that is done, we will set the skill caps properly through each era.

[Zziek]

This seems like all it's going to do is make swarm kites longer and make it even harder for non-bards to get mobs. People aren't going to stop pulling massive amounts of mobs, they're just going to kite for longer because the exp is still faster than grouping.

[Angelice]

Def not classic..... I remember doing AOE in Seb on live and it was NOT limited to 25 mobs... thats just ridiculous.

[Tankdan]

getting rid of Chardok AE, an icon of classic EQ.....


interesting

[fuark]

Rogean, would you be willing to share any updates on when ragebringer haste will be fixed to affect back stab?

[Juststoned]

So you know, you cant swarm kit that big on 56k. I know this for a fact i still use 56k. i live in the mountains and its all i can get. Also everytime a bard swarm kites in the zone it crashes me out every single time and i see mulitply other people linkdead from it. So for those of you who think it was capable on 56k back then are wrong.

[Salaryman]

is this a new era patch?
I have the best paladin sword btw
never banned, never rmted, best items
im the hero of red99

[xKoopa]

So you know, you cant swarm kit that big on 56k. I know this for a fact i still use 56k. i live in the mountains and its all i can get. Also everytime a bard swarm kites in the zone it crashes me out every single time and i see mulitply other people linkdead from it. So for those of you who think it was capable on 56k back then are wrong.

Bard aoe kite isnt chardok aoe

people are saying you could do chardok style aoe back in the day on 56k, not bard swarms

[herb_gotti]

Yeah, chardok XP will now be killed. Silly to make a drastic change after years of having it the way it was.... lol.

[Profyx]

So you know, you cant swarm kit that big on 56k. I know this for a fact i still use 56k. i live in the mountains and its all i can get. Also everytime a bard swarm kites in the zone it crashes me out every single time and i see mulitply other people linkdead from it. So for those of you who think it was capable on 56k back then are wrong.
There are plenty of people who dont know how to swarm kite on a DSL connection too.

[Victorio]

I agree with nixing Chardok AE and bard disruption.

That being said, the technical justification is just b.s. There's a difference between March of 1999 and June 2001, which is where the timeline is right now. I remember as soon as Luclin was released I went to AE in Sebilis to grind AAs (since Sebilis was empty on Sullon Zek). We'd usually do 60 mobs a pull, but we were only using two enchanters because we kept the group size to 6.

A far better solution would be to limit bard songs and then make 1 or 2 AE stun spells not castable in Chardok until Chardok revamp.

The solution as it is implemented now will cause problems in fear.

[botrainer]

Honestly, the AOE change came far to late. Why did it take 5 years of it to finally nail down? All the major donors have every class lvl 60 max now and you wanna slow down any others from doing the same??

[Malk]

This seems like all it's going to do is make swarm kites longer

AE kites, bardic swarm kiting is a totally different thing classic-wise (it involves charm, the goblin ring and social mobs). Large AE kites were not reliably achievable with early 2k's network and hardware bar a few exceptions - hence why the "it's not classic" holds its stand.

[Izmael]

IMO 25 mobs limit is a fine change. We're in 2016 and arrangements have to be made in order to keep the game closer to how it was played back then.

Notice I said "closer to how it was played", not "closer to how it was".

Back then, leveling up to 60 involved grinding in an exp group, one mob at a time, not getting PL'd by a bunch of wizards in Chardok. I'm sure there can be counterexamples but the very vast majority just grinded it out in Velks or Seb, etc.

Bards being able to swarm 150 mobs IS overpowered. I have several bards across both servers but accept this nerf as we're here for the best classic EQ experience and whatever makes it feel more classic is welcome. I honestly don't remember bards swarming such numbers back in 2001.

25 sounds like a fair number for everyone.

[thebutthat]

What bard still isn't going to pull 25 mobs and run them down? Burning Woods i tend to pull around that many anyway because I get tired of running all around the zone looking for blue cons. Think this is just a silly restriction. Either make it 4 and end the mechanic all together, or leave it alone.

[Giovanni]

Honestly, the AOE change came far to late. Why did it take 5 years of it to finally nail down? All the major donors have every class lvl 60 max now and you wanna slow down any others from doing the same??

Key change needed prior to launching a new server.

[Dillian]

i clearly remember kiting more then 25 mobs with bard on a 56k modem. not classic. Just open a new server already. This one is getting more and more crowded. too many people, not classic. I how ever agree there should be a limit as having half the zone or more is crap. But maybe 35 or something.

[Trollhide]

itt there are literally people complaining about "only" being able to kill 25 mobs at a time

I'm a bard and I'm ok with this change, it's really not that big a deal. Personally I'm stoked for the Ulan Meadowgreen fix since that fucker ate my crafted BP turn-in this week and petitions forum is like DMV wait time x100

[Syche]

Knights of Norrath are still skill f'd.../sigh.

[Feathers]

OMG I love you guys!! Thank you!

[Crawdad]

In classic, most players actually AE'd in Sebilis.

I look forward to AE Groups popping up in Sebilis, pulling 25 mobs a pop won't be too bad, only need 1-2 enchanters for that too.

This, I often pulled for AE groups in Sebilis and it made me wax nostalgia a bit to see it not going on here. Hopefully it starts back up!

Great patch! Not totally classic (in regard to this nerfing PoF clears), but much needed. Always blows my mind how great our not-so-little emu community is.

[LordRayken]

Thank you!

[Nixtar]

What bard still isn't going to pull 25 mobs and run them down? Burning Woods i tend to pull around that many anyway because I get tired of running all around the zone looking for blue cons. Think this is just a silly restriction. Either make it 4 and end the mechanic all together, or leave it alone.

Well, if you do that now you're causing zone disruption and when they change something like this and first thing a bard does is to be all uppity about it... Yeah, won't end well for this hypothetical bard.

[Giovanni]

Every 21 minutes I wax nostalgic about the battle of Helm's Deep when Gandalf single handily pbaoe'd 10,000 Urakhai.

My wife does too, and it is one of those moments that really brings us together as a couple every 21 minutes in Chardok. She doesn't talk or move around much. One player asked why my wife has been staring at a wall in Chardok since level 40. I just explained that she is a JRR Tolkien fan, and told him next pull is 3k pay up or drop group.

[Beldan4]

Need to ween these types of players on red off their non classic exp bonus nipple. Too much exp bonus the primary reason for low pop on red.

uhhh id like to know what your basing this off of. When TMO came over to Red they didn't leave because they leveled too fast. If anything it helped them get into the game faster. I watched SOME people leave because they caved under pressure.

I don't know who you are, but unless you have red experience to back yourself up don't make nonsensical claims about the demise of red.

[zanderklocke]

AE kites, bardic swarm kiting is a totally different thing classic-wise (it involves charm, the goblin ring and social mobs). Large AE kites were not reliably achievable with early 2k's network and hardware bar a few exceptions - hence why the "it's not classic" holds its stand.

Both AE kiting and charm (swarm) kiting existed on live. Charm (swarm) kiting does not involve AEing at all.

[Daywolf]

Wow! This is a great patch. AE fix, finally! :)

[fangz20]

what a poor update , how unclassic r u going to go? is your goal now that velious us over the refine the classic server where its custom and not classic? might as well play one of the other 100 servers

[Ivory]

Nilbog: [Jun2001] Changed the forged Antonian Javelins to be stackable.

Are spears and purchased javelins stackable now too?

[cwaldrop16]

I think this is a good change. This doesn't really change bards swarming for leveling (most don't pull much more than 25). It does effect bard PLing (from a time perspective) and the Chardok groups though.

[Bitie]

The real tragedy... RIP Massive Heartwood Thorn backstab modifier! :(

[fangz20]

all i here is it effecting bards, what of druid upheaval and stuff? i use this to farm and often pull over 25 they broke it and its very unclassic, adding unclassic mechanics like this to stop swarm kiting is dumb, as bards arnt the only ones with multi target aoes, Also i did the same farming method in classic, so how does this ''make it more classic''

[fangz20]

wanna stop bards? make it the rules not a mechanic. zone wide disruption already sounds close to the rule broken already

[khanable]

Fangz is finally delivering some butthurt to this thread

Carry on ol chap

[Ravager]

might as well play one of the other 100 servers
And I'm sure you're welcome to.

[Angelice]

Def not classic..... I remember doing AOE in Seb on live and it was NOT limited to 25 mobs... 50-75 would be about the max pull then. This severely detracts from the whole PBAOE mechanic. Why not just ban AOE Chardok groups instead of breaking a feature of the classic game? I'm a little disappointed that a server that has for the most part tried to hold to classic features would intentionally break a game mechanic like this. Thanks anyway though for all the hard work you guys put in. I do enjoy your server.

[Ravager]

I would guess because players require oversight and code does not.

[shummit]

so basically i gotta pull 100 mobs, and spend 4 times the time to do it, yep in before people crying bard still kiting 100 mobs at a time lol

[Muggens]

Rogean, would you be willing to share any updates on when ragebringer haste will be fixed to affect back stab?

Justice for the Ragebringer 2016!

Why not just put the Seething Fury effects in the item description instead, like just add Haste 40% , AC 9 and ATK 40 on it and it should work normally :o

[Vandaen]

I just want Summon Companion fixed for necromancers (and, i suppose, the other classes that should be able to use it now [june 2001 patch iirc]). :(

Edit: Nevermind. Maybe it was just me, but it's working. :D

[Crookstinger]

I just want Summon Companion fixed for necromancers (and, i suppose, the other classes that should be able to use it now [june 2001 patch iirc]). :(
I bought a copy a while back on my ENC and was not able to scribe it. I was able to scribe it after the patch today.

[ergo]

I'm not going to speak too much to the technological reasons being given for AE nerf, as it was a general feeling amongst the staff, not just one or two people. However, there were additional reasons that changes needed to be made. Chardok AE trivializes XP Gain with loads of free time inbetween, which goes against the spirit of the entire game, not just Classic EQ. It's also one of the only spots you can do this, which is significantly unfair as a whole. Bard AE kiting also continues to cause issues with zone disruptions.

So while you may disagree with one or two of the reasons, there's certainly enough people here agreeing that the change overall needed to be made.

Ad populum[logical fallacy] is never a rational justification for a decision. Everyone thought burning witches was a good idea too, save the witch. That doesn't make burning said witch the correct, or logical thing to do.

You have over many patches decided that something being classic has no baring on what you and your staff will do. The argument of xxx not being classic means nothing because you will ignore what is classic when it suits you.[see level requirement on epics as an example, spoiler: Still no minimum level requirement on live servers]

[Ravager]

Ad populum[logical fallacy] is never a rational justification for a decision. Everyone thought burning witches was a good idea too, save the witch. That doesn't make burning said witch the correct, or logical thing to do.

You have over many patches decided that something being classic has no baring on what you and your staff will do. The argument of xxx not being classic means nothing because you will ignore what is classic when it suits you.[see level requirement on epics as an example, spoiler: Still no minimum level requirement on live servers]
Faulty Comparison [logical fallacy] - Witch hunts and emulated games are not the same thing, nor sufficiently similar to be analogous. In the world of emulated games mass appeal is beneficial, which is why Blue thrives while Red does not.

[jek24]

PBAoE target limit is not a classic feature. I agree with the above comment regarding server devs possibly ignoring what is classic when it suits them. Could this pave the way for a slippery slope?

[Lojik]

Do you want classic mechanics or classic gameplay? They are not necessarily the same. The devs do their best to relive the "classic experience" the best way they see possible. Since so much has changed outside the world of eq in terms of information and computer technology, classic mechanics and classic gameplay will be at odds with each other. All the devs can do is try to find the best compromise out of the situation. How dare they make changes to their own server (that we play on for free.)

The most telling aspect of classic eq was the tears of whiners when devs made changes...so in that respect they are doing a damn good job. Kudos.

[khanable]

Do you want classic mechanics or classic gameplay? They are not necessarily the same. The devs do their best to relive the "classic experience" the best way they see possible. Since so much has changed outside the world of eq in terms of information and computer technology, classic mechanics and classic gameplay will be at odds with each other. All the devs can do is try to find the best compromise out of the situation. How dare they make changes to their own server (that we play on for free.)

The most telling aspect of classic eq was the tears of whiners when devs made changes...so in that respect they are doing a damn good job. Kudos.

+1

If devs hardlined on classic mechanics we'd still be hooping down dragons like a bunch of rabid assholes with 400 on the spawn point

This change is a giant net-positive for this server (moving forward) and whatever new server comes up at a later date

Sorry some of ya'll actually have to level your toons now, must be so shitty!

[LordRayken]

Ad populum[logical fallacy] is never a rational justification for a decision. Everyone thought burning witches was a good idea too, save the witch. That doesn't make burning said witch the correct, or logical thing to do.

You have over many patches decided that something being classic has no baring on what you and your staff will do. The argument of xxx not being classic means nothing because you will ignore what is classic when it suits you.[see level requirement on epics as an example, spoiler: Still no minimum level requirement on live servers]

Isn't using such extreme and illogical analogies like "burning witches is okay" a logical fallacy as well? That wasn't even a proper ad populum fallacy anyway.

You're stretching to make an argument.

No class in any game should be able to kill an entire zone with an aoe. That's just bad design, classic or not.

[brecon]

Sorry dudes, not a democracy. All hail our wise and virtuous overlords.

[Decad]

Do you want classic mechanics or classic gameplay? They are not necessarily the same. The devs do their best to relive the "classic experience" the best way they see possible. Since so much has changed outside the world of eq in terms of information and computer technology, classic mechanics and classic gameplay will be at odds with each other. All the devs can do is try to find the best compromise out of the situation. How dare they make changes to their own server (that we play on for free.)

The most telling aspect of classic eq was the tears of whiners when devs made changes...so in that respect they are doing a damn good job. Kudos.

+1.

Likewise if classic mechanics and UI exist here lots of amazing feats would not even be remotely possible.

Classic nitpicking on specific issues that favours individuals rather then real classic is exactly what's going on.

[FatMice]

Telin: Changed the name of "a huge water elemental" in Lower Guk to the classic "an huge water elemental" and increased its level range and difficulty.


Love this.

[syztem]

haha, im all for this 25 limit. glad my toons are leveled up. wont matter much on red since exp is still easy to get, but itll get rid of the huge influx of new toons randomly level 60 that you have never seen once before. Glad CoM swarming is gone, kinda sad that I can't swarm new players up in OT 30-50 anymore, but shit happens y'know? there are other ways to get exp.

Only thing I can see that might effect this which I don't even do anymore, is a bard aoe swarming something like grim aura earring camp. pull 50-60 goblins of entire ruins and aoe them down takes 1 chords/denons/selos to kill it all, only difference now is youll have to play it like 3-4 times to hit the extra 25 25 25...

egress indoors, pras. and evacing from dungeons in vel to anywherenow so gooooog goog goog. go from CS/SG to sebilis in like 2 minutes. no more bullshit port to DL, run the crapper to KC, evac. so glad i never got around to leveling another druid to 39 to re-bind at KC for sole evac purposes.

A+++ changes. thanks @P99devs

[ergo]

Isn't using such extreme and illogical analogies like "burning witches is okay" a logical fallacy as well? That wasn't even a proper ad populum fallacy anyway.

You're stretching to make an argument.

No class in any game should be able to kill an entire zone with an aoe. That's just bad design, classic or not.

Reverse order: Your opinion on what should or shouldn't be the case is irrelevant to what was the case and how the game was played originally. People have taken it to extremes here[p99] due to knowing everything about the game.

As for the comparison:

I was giving an example to illustrate the point of fallacy. Rogan said:

So while you may disagree with one or two of the reasons, there's certainly enough people here agreeing that the change overall needed to be made.


Literally his own words as justification as to why the change needed to be made. Its a bad argument. My using his same logic and applying it elsewhere to show why it is bad logic and a bad argument is not a stretch.

The other people agreeing with the nerf has no baring on the nerf being right or wrong, or the conclusion reached being reasonable and that is why it is a logical fallacy.

"Because fuck you[bards/wizards/enchanters/ae groups], that's why" is a better reason than a logical fallacy to justify why a change needs to be made or some bullshit excuse about system specs/internet of the time etc.

By the end of 1998, the North American cable industry counted 550,000 cable modem subscribers. That grew to 1.6 million by the end of 1999 and five million a year later. At the end of 2002, there were more than 16 million.

Source: http://www.informit.com/library/content.aspx?b=Planet_Broadband&seqNum=17

It's a bullshit excuse. Swarm kiting was a thing in classic EQ, AE groups were a thing in classic EQ. This is a fact.

Faulty Comparison [logical fallacy]

If you are going to try to call me out, at least get the name right.

Witch hunts and emulated games are not the same thing,

I never made the claim they were, strawman. I was speaking specifically at the mass (a mob burning a witch) and claiming to be justified because the majority agreed. I never claimed witch burning and video games were alike.

I see why you would think, incorrectly, that that was my point, which it was not because arguing against the point I made would be futile.

Blue and red are irrelevant in this discussion. I couldn't care less about red v blue and it has no influence on my argument regarding this nerf.

I care about bad justifications for nerfing 16yr old content to appeal to the 'majority' of people on the forums and zero indication that the forums represent the server as a whole, only the loudest and seemingly the most ignorant.

I care about the hypocrisy of the admins claiming to care about a 'classic experience' when it suits them and ignoring it when it differs from their desires.

I have no objection to them doing as they will on their server, but be honest about it and stop using the 'classic/not classic' bullshit shield, appeals to popularity of idiots on the forums, or made up computer spec issues to justify those actions.

Maybe the community is too stupid to be insulted by Rogan's words, I am not sure. nm it's the internet, what am I thinking?

[isoka]

Greedy bards will pull 25 so they don't let any corpse rot

[elwing]

Woot, best patch ever!

edit: the bards will not disrupt the zone 4time longer. The real issue is with people continuously selling PL using AE(and all the possible RMT), now exp will comes 4 time slower, meaning 4 time less money, meaning doing it will become less attractive and less people will do it. and as it was said they will probably take only 25 at a time. I'm sorry for the bard who exp for themselves, but this nerf is way better than the one on live that does 0 damage when the mob is moving...

[khanable]

I care about bad justifications for nerfing 16yr old content to appeal to the 'majority' of people on the forums and zero indication that the forums represent the server as a whole, only the loudest and seemingly the most ignorant.

I care about the hypocrisy of the admins claiming to care about a 'classic experience' when it suits them and ignoring it when it differs from their desires.


Found the AE shitlord that dreads having to actually level characters and farm real camps for plat

[Ravager]

I care about bad justifications for nerfing 16yr old content to appeal to the 'majority' of people on the forums and zero indication that the forums represent the server as a whole, only the loudest and seemingly the most ignorant.

Why? Seems like nerfing 16 year old content to appeal to the majority of people is justification in itself, good or bad is mere opinion, why is yours better than someone else's? Arrogance? Befits a first year undergrad who regurgitates his logic textbook on internet forums.

I care about the hypocrisy of the admins claiming to care about a 'classic experience' when it suits them and ignoring it when it differs from their desires.Their stated mission on the About Page http://www.project1999.com/index.php?pageid=about is to recreate the classic feeling, so where's the hypocrisy? Put up a poll if you like, you won't find many who agree with you that bard swarming to the extent it's been done here feels classic. I never new bard swarming and Chardok AE was a thing until I started here and I played live the first 5 years. Are you mad that they're not catering to your own personal desires?

Maybe the community is too stupid to be insulted by Rogan's words, I am not sure. nm it's the internet, what am I thinking?Why are you insulted? Did they ask you to play here? Did they promise you Bard and Chardok AE? Did they make a crack about your mother when they took it away? If this is what you find insulting, you may not want to go outside or use the internet. It's an offensive world out there.

[rezzu]

Edible Goo combine doesn't work anymore since patch , plzz fix. Soulfire quest is disturb.

[khanable]

Why? Seems like nerfing 16 year old content to appeal to the majority of people is justification in itself, good or bad is mere opinion, why is yours better than someone else's? Arrogance? Befits a first year undergrad who regurgitates his logic textbook on internet forums.
Their stated mission on the About Page http://www.project1999.com/index.php?pageid=about is to recreate the classic feeling, so where's the hypocrisy? Put up a poll if you like, you won't find many who agree with you that bard swarming to the extent it's been done here feels classic. I never new bard swarming and Chardok AE was a thing until I started here and I played live the first 5 years. Are you mad that they're not catering to your own personal desires?
Why are you insulted? Did they ask you to play here? Did they promise you Bard and Chardok AE? Did they make a crack about your mother when they took it away? If this is what you find insulting, you may not want to go outside or use the internet. It's an offensive world out there.

Don't bother with that one. He was whining about the epic level nerfs and suggesting the removal of MQing all together so it wouldn't impact him. Guy doesn't give a shit about "classic mechanics" - only cares about what impacts him.

[Lhancelot]

Two of the most annoying occurences in the game regarding leveling are being nerfed, this should be celebrated.

That being solo bards swarm-kiting entire zones and Chardok Proxy leveling sales being ran by rich and lazy players who didn't want to put forth any effort into leveling a new toon.

No idea how this change isn't viewed as a positive one. I personally have to say THANKS devs. Maybe a bit late, but better now than never.

[Jauna]

You know what they did on classic to stop bards from swarming that is still in effect on live to this day?

When a bard-DoTed enemy is moving, the song does zero damage. When the DoTed enemy stands still, it does its full damage. The Chardok thing is just horse crap

[Somekid123]

Don't like it? Leave.

Great job dev's!

-Love Andain.

[cybernine]

I can see all sides on the PB AoE issue, we don't know ALL the reasons why the dev's decided to change but largely I'm guessing they felt it just wasn't "classic" because it largely wasn't done on live.

Just because it wasn't done or done often on live doesn't mean it wasn't classic or it doesn't belong in game. One of the greatest changes to Live was that the original developers did see issues they either created or seen needed to be changed and made corrections as they seen fit, they did not make a perfect system. BP AoE spells to my knowledge never had limited targets even until current day.

By changing ALL BP AoE spells it changed the mechanics not just for bards but Wizard, Druids, ShadowKnights, etc. BP AoE spells for Druids can be used for factioning in zones like The Warrens or Droga, this was largely done on Live and very often. Wizards have a large selection of BP AoE's, nuff said. SK's have the spell Wave of Enfeeblement (Str Debuff) or Word of Spirit (Small AE DD), these are not game breaking but they do have their uses.

However there are alternatives that could have been selected to correct problem swarm kitting if they felt that was too big of an issue. Here are some better alternatives that could add additional flavor to the mix that would take swarm kitting from a solo skill to a group effort in CoM, Chardok, etc:

*Randomly select certain NPC's to summon (this would still allow swarm kitting but have group effort and not afk effort for the ones getting power leveled.
*Increase run speed of select NPC's (Same as above, would require additional players to interact and clear problem mobs and still allow players the ability to swarm just with additional help.)
*Change NPC Pathing (This would be an interesting change that could allow NPC's to path in a way to not pull the entire zone. To naturally decrease the number of NPC's that could be pulled at once.)

There are many changes that could of been selected to change or correct the issue and still allow the base game mechanics to remain the same. I think limiting the BP AoE's to 25 will just further frustrate players in these zones because Bards will take up more available time and further limit the zone to other players.

Also on a side note power leveling has always been classic but to me classic power leveling was done with Clerics, Druids, Shamans and Enchanters buffing groups and having them attack mobs, taking damage and receiving the experience themselves. I remember Guk, SolB, Unreset, etc being hot-spots for this kind of activity. Damage Shields on live was considered you doing damage to the NPC's and you received experience, I know its not that way here you have to do at LEAST 1 point of damage to the NPC before you receive experience from the kill.

[Angelice]

Reverse order: Your opinion on what should or shouldn't be the case is irrelevant to what was the case and how the game was played originally. People have taken it to extremes here[p99] due to knowing everything about the game.

As for the comparison:

I was giving an example to illustrate the point of fallacy. Rogan said:




Literally his own words as justification as to why the change needed to be made. Its a bad argument. My using his same logic and applying it elsewhere to show why it is bad logic and a bad argument is not a stretch.

The other people agreeing with the nerf has no baring on the nerf being right or wrong, or the conclusion reached being reasonable and that is why it is a logical fallacy.

"Because fuck you[bards/wizards/enchanters/ae groups], that's why" is a better reason than a logical fallacy to justify why a change needs to be made or some bullshit excuse about system specs/internet of the time etc.



Source: http://www.informit.com/library/content.aspx?b=Planet_Broadband&seqNum=17

It's a bullshit excuse. Swarm kiting was a thing in classic EQ, AE groups were a thing in classic EQ. This is a fact.



If you are going to try to call me out, at least get the name right.



I never made the claim they were, strawman. I was speaking specifically at the mass (a mob burning a witch) and claiming to be justified because the majority agreed. I never claimed witch burning and video games were alike.

I see why you would think, incorrectly, that that was my point, which it was not because arguing against the point I made would be futile.

Blue and red are irrelevant in this discussion. I couldn't care less about red v blue and it has no influence on my argument regarding this nerf.

I care about bad justifications for nerfing 16yr old content to appeal to the 'majority' of people on the forums and zero indication that the forums represent the server as a whole, only the loudest and seemingly the most ignorant.

I care about the hypocrisy of the admins claiming to care about a 'classic experience' when it suits them and ignoring it when it differs from their desires.

I have no objection to them doing as they will on their server, but be honest about it and stop using the 'classic/not classic' bullshit shield, appeals to popularity of idiots on the forums, or made up computer spec issues to justify those actions.

Maybe the community is too stupid to be insulted by Rogan's words, I am not sure. nm it's the internet, what am I thinking?

+1

[Angelice]

I never new bard swarming and Chardok AE was a thing until I started here and I played live the first 5 years.

I never new that either... :D Looks like someone should have regurgitated their first-year college grammar book when on internet forums....

Arrogance? Befits a first year undergrad who regurgitates his logic textbook on internet forums.

... toolbag.

[Daldaen]

You know what they did on classic to stop bards from swarming that is still in effect on live to this day?

When a bard-DoTed enemy is moving, the song does zero damage. When the DoTed enemy stands still, it does its full damage. The Chardok thing is just horse crap

A nerf that was implemented during LoY because they added a few zones with tons of melee mobs that bards could kite in, and because it was during an era where AAs were buy able.

I think the PBAE Target limit, if the intent is to emulate what your average bear's connection could handle at the time, is set too low. 25 mobs wasn't an enormous problem. People remember having 25 mob gnoll trains in Blackburrow from your random fleeing mob.

Setting it to 50 mobs would be a more reasonable point. Chardok pulls were typically 100-140, so those wouldn't be returning. Bard swarms are often 75-100+, so they'd have to do smaller pulls.

Really though, if the Developers could, and I know this is a big if. Migrate us over to the client formerly used by the Al'Kabor server. That client would implement so many classic mechanics the server would be infinitely better off.

[Kiwix]

Lets talk about FD. It seems a bit bugged after patch? Some mobs wont forget about you even after pathing back to their static spawn spot. Did anyone experience anything similar?

[Ravager]

I never new that either... :D Looks like someone should have regurgitated their first-year college grammar book when on internet forums....



... toolbag.
What did I do to you to warrant a personal attack?

[HippoNipple]

When is the new Red server opening?

[douglas1999]

Guys only being able to kill 25 mobs at a time is not enough obviously

[Angelice]

What did I do to you to warrant a personal attack?

It isn't a personal attack... it's merely a comment on your toolbag tone your taking with this guy who is laying his concerns... 😉

[letsjoe]

lol p99 devs never cease to amaze

[Ravager]

It isn't a personal attack... it's merely a comment on your toolbag tone your taking with this guy who is laying his concerns... 😉
No, you called me a name, hence it was a personal attack. Now, as far as the tone of my posts, scroll up a bit and tell me who was the first person in the argument to start calling people here "idiots" and "stupid". Don't pretend that you're white-knighting for some misunderstood victim of bullying.

[burkemi5]

Really though, if the Developers could, and I know this is a big if. Migrate us over to the client formerly used by the Al'Kabor server. That client would implement so many classic mechanics the server would be infinitely better off.

Dear god you do not want this... but that client definitely feels more classic than Titanium.

[SDWV]

I'm currently on a bard as my first character and this doesn't affect me at all. I tried swarm kiting and realized that I'm a terrible bard. I don't have the time to dedicate to improving so I just meander along happily like I did back in the classic days: at a snail's pace.

[Daldaen]

Dear god you do not want this... but that client definitely feels more classic than Titanium.

So much would be better here.

No cycle targets
No scroll wheel to 3rd person
No exact mana value in inventory

It would be great and classic. I hope that's the way they're moving with all these changes.

[khanable]

I just want working stamina

Restore glory to acumen!

[Alanus]

Nilbog: [Jun2001] Wind of the North, Wind of the South, Markar's Relocation and Tishan's Relocation have had their additional restrictions removed, and can now be cast from any zone where other similar spells can be cast.

WOOHOO!

[Daldaen]

I just want working stamina

Restore glory to acumen!

WTB Zings for my warrior, that heavy Wurmslayer is owning his Stamina bar.

[Vandil]

Thanks for fixing the faction in the Gorge. Now I might log in after a 2 month break.

[Baler]

Well done p99 staff in Emulating the classic experience!
keep up the amazing work! Thank you!

Runny eye was sort of partly revamped in the previous patch happy to see some more work went into that.

AE stuns may be the only one I think should have a higher limit.

"Cleaned up the cyclops area of Rathe Mountains." I wonder what this means...

ps. looking forward to stonebrunt mountains someday. :D

A silly idea but Why cant the server emulate a 256k/128k connection? lol People would LOVE that.

[Beldan4]

Woot, best patch ever!

edit: the bards will not disrupt the zone 4time longer. The real issue is with people continuously selling PL using AE(and all the possible RMT), now exp will comes 4 time slower, meaning 4 time less money, meaning doing it will become less attractive and less people will do it. and as it was said they will probably take only 25 at a time. I'm sorry for the bard who exp for themselves, but this nerf is way better than the one on live that does 0 damage when the mob is moving...

dude I have NEVER charged ANYONE for any of my swarms, ive done it ALL FOR FREE. out of the goodness of my heart and I will continue to do so.

[Beldan4]

So the big question here is, IF luclin ever comes out, will they change it back? because Eshaker pulls were BIG part of classic luclin and PoP

[Lemonhead]

A client migration would be a huge undertaking. Shards of Dalaya recently switched over. It took half a dozen devs years and it has been riddled with bugs for 9 months now. (getting better though)

[furny]

Guys only being able to kill 25 mobs at a time is not enough obviously

Strongly agree. I don't like the restriction at all but would be willing to talk through a compromise. I think 50 is still too low and reluctantly agree 100 might be too much. We need a nice number in the middle... like 75.

[Lagaidh]

I had 500KB/s badwith in 1997. 56k was for the poors.

That'll getcha laid in 2016!

Wait. No it won't.

[Lagaidh]

uhhh id like to know what your basing this off of. When TMO came over to Red they didn't leave because they leveled too fast. If anything it helped them get into the game faster. I watched SOME people leave because they caved under pressure.

I don't know who you are, but unless you have red experience to back yourself up don't make nonsensical claims about the demise of red.

I'm a middle of the road guy. I try a lot of things. However, when it comes to my class, I'm always a paladin, so it's no surprise I hated the EQ model of PvP in those early days. That and I ran into my first grief players.

After finishing out what a dwarf can do on his own on P99 and scrolling past thread after thread after thread about R99, I thought I'd try it.

I played a couple of toons: druid in case the wife wanted to play (and drop transfers wherever I am), then my paladin. Got them to around 35 and have a few stitches of gear.

I lay all this out to say the following: Red 99 will never ever matter to this community. It's the ambiance. I knocked around on red for a few weeks and I have to say, chat is just toxic. It was toxic a few years back when I tried and still was as of a few months ago when I just logged out and quit. I get why many R99ers love talking smack, I do. It's fun to rib your compatriots in competition.

I'm from redneckistan in Virginia. I understand that I won't attract others to my hamlet by acting like a full redneck at all times. Just won't happen. Oh I'll appeal to people who are already like me, but then that's just the same shit again and again isn't it?

I've tried Red as a bluebie in two different eras around here and each time it was the same: a cesspool of what seems to be socially maladjusted folks hurling insult bombs at each other that are designed to be maximally offensive to anyone that can get the ASCII on their screen.

I've already been 13. It was fun to be an obnoxious asshole then. By the time I was 17 the luster had long stopped shining on that particular comedy styling.

It did for a lot of us a long time ago.

Red won't die. It seems to consistently hold 10% of the total P99 population. And as you'd like for folks to quit predicting Red's demise, I'd appreciate it if more Red players would realize there's no Blue exodus coming. I'd also appreciate it if more Red players can understand what Blue players do: we simply don't want to play in your box /grin. Acknowledge that your brand of play is the outlying fashion here.

That and I saw the word "******" WAAAY too much in chat on Red.

[Ravager]

A silly idea but Why cant the server emulate a 256k/128k connection? lol People would LOVE that.
Not a silly idea, though the power gamers here will reminisce about playing on cable and 8 boxing and that throttling so much isn't classic, but throttling to 512 would be near the high water mark in 2001 (a couple report higher, but even they admit that it's in special test cases), which would come to 64KB/s: http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/29714-What-s-your-AVERAGE-download-speed-(dial-up-or-cable-dsl)

They'd cry about all of the link deaths from zoning and having trouble logging in and what-not, but that's classic too.

[Wrench]

seems like this patch should add spell interruption to red


just think of the tears for lost sit casting

[Fountree]

Thx much for these great changes Rog, Nilbog + co. u guys are on point as usual. Long live p99.

[getoffmylawn]

So I don't have to say it after every sentence, I want to applaud the people working on these changes for taking the time to do so. Instead of paying the monthly fee on the pay servers, this place makes for a great alternative. I also want to say This post is not intended to flame anyone, but to add my worthless two cents and hopefully give some constructive criticism that I'm surprised hasn't gotten brought up yet.

This affects all player vs npc detrimental Target AE and PBAE spells including Nukes, Stuns, Songs, and etc. We will continue to evalulate this to determine if any further changes are needed.

Nerfing Wizards, Enchanters, Bards, is HUGE and not at all like it was circa 1999. I don't think it's fair to pay such attention to detail on everything else to keep it like it was in 1999, then completely nerf certain classes and say it was ok due to server lag back in the day.

that's all.

[Beldan4]

I'm a middle of the road guy. I try a lot of things. However, when it comes to my class, I'm always a paladin, so it's no surprise I hated the EQ model of PvP in those early days. That and I ran into my first grief players.

After finishing out what a dwarf can do on his own on P99 and scrolling past thread after thread after thread about R99, I thought I'd try it.

I played a couple of toons: druid in case the wife wanted to play (and drop transfers wherever I am), then my paladin. Got them to around 35 and have a few stitches of gear.

I lay all this out to say the following: Red 99 will never ever matter to this community. It's the ambiance. I knocked around on red for a few weeks and I have to say, chat is just toxic. It was toxic a few years back when I tried and still was as of a few months ago when I just logged out and quit. I get why many R99ers love talking smack, I do. It's fun to rib your compatriots in competition.

I'm from redneckistan in Virginia. I understand that I won't attract others to my hamlet by acting like a full redneck at all times. Just won't happen. Oh I'll appeal to people who are already like me, but then that's just the same shit again and again isn't it?

I've tried Red as a bluebie in two different eras around here and each time it was the same: a cesspool of what seems to be socially maladjusted folks hurling insult bombs at each other that are designed to be maximally offensive to anyone that can get the ASCII on their screen.

I've already been 13. It was fun to be an obnoxious asshole then. By the time I was 17 the luster had long stopped shining on that particular comedy styling.

It did for a lot of us a long time ago.

Red won't die. It seems to consistently hold 10% of the total P99 population. And as you'd like for folks to quit predicting Red's demise, I'd appreciate it if more Red players would realize there's no Blue exodus coming. I'd also appreciate it if more Red players can understand what Blue players do: we simply don't want to play in your box /grin. Acknowledge that your brand of play is the outlying fashion here.

That and I saw the word "******" WAAAY too much in chat on Red.

ok. ill admit Red is a cesspool of slime, that slime sticks to you in ways and in places that cuase most people to cringe and fall away. However it doesn't HAVE to be that way. I came from VZ. The only server that had real honor as far as I could tell. You acted like a douche in pvp, no high end guild would touch you. Your name was Blacklisted and you might as well RR.

Lets face it, we ALL play this wishing to re-live our glory days. I know I won't find it on red, but its closer then blue, ive been on blue (on live). I refuse to be a typewriter monkey.

[Boonsly]

Keep up the great work!

[countytime]

On live, AE groups were nerfed by reducing how many could have aggro on you at a time (to ~25, I think). That was a better solution, because those extra mobs would wander away, then come back and kill you when you were OOM. It wasn't just that you couldn't _kill_ 25+ mobs; it was that you couldn't _control_ 25+ mobs, something that's much more important.

In the current scenario on P99, a bard gathers every mob in a zone, then kills 25 of them, but the rest of the mobs are still under his control. So he kills the next 25. Etc, etc. The only thing that changes is the speed of the killing.

So the live solution was better, and I think they should revert the change and do that instead.

[Ambrouis]

Too bad I didnt hit 60 on my cleric in chardok... within the last 4? years...

[Grimmskld]

Thanks for the updates!!

[jolanar]

Telin: Increased drop rate for armor and other items in Runnyeye.

Not noticing a difference at all for drops in Runnyeye. Drop rates are still WAY WAY worse than they were before the revamp. As it stands right now the revamp made the zone incredibly worse as far as drops are concerned.

[Crookstinger]

Not noticing a difference at all for drops in Runnyeye. Drop rates are still WAY WAY worse than they were before the revamp. As it stands right now the revamp made the zone incredibly worse as far as drops are concerned.
I've spent a few hours the past couple of nights killing things on the bottom level. Overall I seem to be getting the same or perhaps slightly more drops than before (although this is rough estimation from memory and not based on parses of my logs for drops), but the named mobs still very often (75% of the time I'd say) drop nothing. The vast majority of the drops I have seen have been off non-named mobs, and it could well be that I have just killed more of them than in past sessions and that's why it seems like there's a slight increase in drops. But, I finally have the full set of Blackened Alloy I was going for, and only 2 drops from a full set of Dark Muslin.

[jolanar]

I've spent a few hours the past couple of nights killing things on the bottom level. Overall I seem to be getting the same or perhaps slightly more drops than before (although this is rough estimation from memory and not based on parses of my logs for drops), but the named mobs still very often (75% of the time I'd say) drop nothing. The vast majority of the drops I have seen have been off non-named mobs, and it could well be that I have just killed more of them than in past sessions and that's why it seems like there's a slight increase in drops. But, I finally have the full set of Blackened Alloy I was going for, and only 2 drops from a full set of Dark Muslin.

It's not just about alloy armor though. Mobs there used to drop bronze and finesteel weapons regularly. Not to mention runes and pages etc. Not a single item off a goblin in 30 minutes of slaughtering them in fact.

[Nikkanu]

Not a silly idea, though the power gamers here will reminisce about playing on cable and 8 boxing and that throttling so much isn't classic, but throttling to 512 would be near the high water mark in 2001 (a couple report higher, but even they admit that it's in special test cases), which would come to 64KB/s: http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/29714-What-s-your-AVERAGE-download-speed-(dial-up-or-cable-dsl)

They'd cry about all of the link deaths from zoning and having trouble logging in and what-not, but that's classic too.

You simply don't know what you're talking about. Everquest works exceptionally well on low bandwidth connections and even while AOEing the entire Plane of Fear never comes close to maxing out the bandwidth of even a 128K ISDN connection. 128k ISDN was affordable and readily available in most decently sized cities by 2001. I think I paid $60 a month for mine and lived in a small city of only 150,000 people at the time.

What matters to EQ isn't bandwidth, but rather latency aka ping times. EQ doesn't send a tremendous amount of information back and forth while you are playing, only that the little bit of information that it sends back and forth doesn't get too delayed as to cause lag or desynches.

I average maybe 100-200mb a month at most of data usage from Everquest. Which includes at least a couple hours a day of actively playing and I often leave characters online 24/7 sitting at rare spawns or in EC.

In 2016 I live in a rural area we are limited to only 4G from Verizon Wireless, and having no unlimited data plans means I quickly often use up my monthly allotment of my high speed 4G data (30-50+mbps) get my internet connection throttled down to 2G (128kbps) speed and have no problems and see no difference playing EQ or doing AoEs at this throttled speed because the latency is low (under 50ms). Ironically this throttled speed of Verizon Wireless 4G is identical to that of 128kbps ISDN that I was using in 2001. Even zoning times are totally unaffected by my bandwidth being throttled.

See 28.8 and 36.6 modems were the norm in 1999 when EQ was first released, and as long as you didn't do ANYTHING else online while EQ was running you could play with little to no lag even on a 28.8 modem. The network stack in EQ was designed with these bandwidth limitations in mind.

The disconnects came if you had something else was maxing out your bandwidth, you had excessive amounts of noise on your phone line from poor quality copper lines from the telco, someone else in your house picked up a phone and tried to make a phone call, or you didn't disable call waiting with a special dial code and incoming phone calls would disconnect you. All of these things would negatively effect latency and/or cause packetloss which are the real problem causers for EQ, and all other real time network applications for that matter.

But if everything was simply setup properly, call waiting was disabled, you didn't share a phone line with other people, your telephone lines were not damaged, you had a reasonably solid ISP, and you were careful that nothing else on your computer was using any bandwidth of any kind it was perfectly reasonable to play EQ and even do AoE groups on even a 33.6k connection 100% lag free. Many dial-up connections can stay at a steady 100-150ms ping times which is just fine for playing EQ.

[Juststoned]

just ban them fruity singing bard from destroying the server and there goes the problem. Just ban them already come on people.

[Nibblewitz]

You simply don't know what you're talking about. Everquest works exceptionally well on low bandwidth connections and even while AOEing the entire Plane of Fear never comes close to maxing out the bandwidth of even a 128K ISDN connection. 128k ISDN was affordable and readily available in most decently sized cities by 2001. I think I paid $60 a month for mine and lived in a small city of only 150,000 people at the time.

What matters to EQ isn't bandwidth, but rather latency aka ping times. EQ doesn't send a tremendous amount of information back and forth while you are playing, only that the little bit of information that it sends back and forth doesn't get too delayed as to cause lag or desynches.

I average maybe 100-200mb a month at most of data usage from Everquest. Which includes at least a couple hours a day of actively playing and I often leave characters online 24/7 sitting at rare spawns or in EC.

In 2016 I live in a rural area we are limited to only 4G from Verizon Wireless, and having no unlimited data plans means I quickly often use up my monthly allotment of my high speed 4G data (30-50+mbps) get my internet connection throttled down to 2G (128kbps) speed and have no problems and see no difference playing EQ or doing AoEs at this throttled speed because the latency is low (under 50ms). Ironically this throttled speed of Verizon Wireless 4G is identical to that of 128kbps ISDN that I was using in 2001. Even zoning times are totally unaffected by my bandwidth being throttled.

See 28.8 and 36.6 modems were the norm in 1999 when EQ was first released, and as long as you didn't do ANYTHING else online while EQ was running you could play with little to no lag even on a 28.8 modem. The network stack in EQ was designed with these bandwidth limitations in mind.

The disconnects came if you had something else was maxing out your bandwidth, you had excessive amounts of noise on your phone line from poor quality copper lines from the telco, someone else in your house picked up a phone and tried to make a phone call, or you didn't disable call waiting with a special dial code and incoming phone calls would disconnect you. All of these things would negatively effect latency and/or cause packetloss which are the real problem causers for EQ, and all other real time network applications for that matter.

But if everything was simply setup properly, call waiting was disabled, you didn't share a phone line with other people, your telephone lines were not damaged, you had a reasonably solid ISP, and you were careful that nothing else on your computer was using any bandwidth of any kind it was perfectly reasonable to play EQ and even do AoE groups on even a 33.6k connection 100% lag free. Many dial-up connections can stay at a steady 100-150ms ping times which is just fine for playing EQ.

Thankfully, the staff disagree and your opinion doesn't matter.

[Nikkanu]

Thankfully, the staff disagree and your opinion doesn't matter.

Provably true and testable facts are opinion in your book? Interesting perspective, but not one I think I can respect.

The staff disagreeing with something has nothing to do with it being true or not. They came up with a false justification for something that they either A) simply either didn't bother to verify or B) intentionally fabricated knowing it was false and which broke several classes and encounters.

There are legitimate reasons for wanting to eliminate Chardok AoE and bard swarm kiting, and I agree with those reasons. What's not necessary or legitimate is to fabricate false claims to justify implementing poorly thought out changes that break several classes and encounters while at the same time demonstrating a lack of understanding about game mechanics that you are changing.

Make a change simply because you want to, because it will help free up server resources, or because it will reduce the amount of CSR the staff has to do? Go for it! Just don't resort to dishonesty for your justification.

[Mazzoff]

Provably true and testable facts are opinion in your book? Interesting perspective, but not one I think I can respect.

The staff disagreeing with something has nothing to do with it being true or not. They came up with a false justification for something that they either A) simply either didn't bother to verify or B) intentionally fabricated knowing it was false and which broke several classes and encounters.

There are legitimate reasons for wanting to eliminate Chardok AoE and bard swarm kiting, and I agree with those reasons. What's not necessary or legitimate is to fabricate false claims to justify implementing poorly thought out changes that break several classes and encounters while at the same time demonstrating a lack of understanding about game mechanics that you are changing.

Make a change simply because you want to, because it will help free up server resources, or because it will reduce the amount of CSR the staff has to do? Go for it! Just don't resort to dishonesty for your justification.

Dude. it's a free server get over yourself.

[Crookstinger]

It's not just about alloy armor though. Mobs there used to drop bronze and finesteel weapons regularly. Not to mention runes and pages etc. Not a single item off a goblin in 30 minutes of slaughtering them in fact.
I have seen plenty of runes and pages there over the past several days. I have not seen a single piece of bronze or fine steel, though. The only other drops I have seen are the odd rusty weapon here or there.

[Drazyx]

i played classic on 33.6kbs modem, 166mhz computer, first voodoo gpu. my first dropped connection lock up from AOE was by a wizard in WC next to dervs, pulled the entire zone and LDd some of our group members. swarming and AOE bombing DID NOT exist in all the glory that is believed; not classic. Even the cheaters bought entire computers to use macroquest on, because no one knew anything about PCs but a select few. I swear i smell millennials arguing about their 1.2ghz first computers here.

[bigbard1]

@staff

Do you feel like this change maybe 4 or 5 years ago would have made the server less toxic and populated at the top?

[getoffmylawn]

This just dawned on me..

If the 25 mob cap on aoe songs was put in with regards to helping other players against those said bards from keeping all the mobs in a zone to themselves, its actually counterintuitive.

I pulled about 40 per swarm the other night in a few swarms. After the first 25 went down after about 5 minutes, I realized that new batch of mobs, all with 100% hp, were only staying out of the zone longer for other players. So, instead of a bard pulling everything in the zone and the timers on those mobs resetting how the normally would before the patch, I was keeping a lot more mobs than there should be away from other players.

Just another reason this 25 mob cap is a bad idea.

[Ravager]

This just dawned on me..

If the 25 mob cap on aoe songs was put in with regards to helping other players against those said bards from keeping all the mobs in a zone to themselves, its actually counterintuitive.

I pulled about 40 per swarm the other night in a few swarms. After the first 25 went down after about 5 minutes, I realized that new batch of mobs, all with 100% hp, were only staying out of the zone longer for other players. So, instead of a bard pulling everything in the zone and the timers on those mobs resetting how the normally would before the patch, I was keeping a lot more mobs than there should be away from other players.

Just another reason this 25 mob cap is a bad idea.
Admits to kiting mobs to prevent other players from killing them. Please suspend.

The right answer is to stop pulling at 25.

[Kender]

yeah but if you pulled 100+ like a lot of bards were, the ones that died in the first 1 or 2 waves have all repopped already and are available for others to kill before you have finished them all off.

also... if you are ae'ing a pack of 100, a group could pop down right beside you and pull mobs from you pack that aren't being damaged. you cant complain because there are 2 rules you are actually breaking. firstly, zone disruption and secondly, deliberate stall tactics on killing a target.

[Kender]

lets face it, anyone that complains about this rule is only doing so because they cant screw others over now by dominating so many spawns

[salimoneus]

Still most impressed by all the hard work the devs and mods are putting into the project. Much props, I can't wait for the day the fresh PvE (blue) server opens and I can finally do a crushbone raid with Haynar, Nilbog, and others who have been waiting.

[getoffmylawn]

Admits to kiting mobs to prevent other players from killing them. Please suspend.

The right answer is to stop pulling at 25.

I've pulled in total maybe less than 50 swarms during the entire time I've played on this server. I'm close to 50 now and will never have to pull another swarm again soon. I highly, highly, highly doubt I'm preventing anyone from leveling. No more than the next bard or kiter.

If the 25 mob cap on aoe songs was put in with regards to helping other players against those said bards from keeping all the mobs in a zone to themselves, its actually counterintuitive.

I pulled about 40 per swarm the other night in a few swarms. After the first 25 went down after about 5 minutes, I realized that new batch of mobs, all with 100% hp, were only staying out of the zone longer for other players. So, instead of a bard pulling everything in the zone and the timers on those mobs resetting how the normally would before the patch, I was keeping a lot more mobs than there should be away from other players.

I did that maybe twice to try and get a feel of what it would be like if I pulled more than 25 mobs now. All the devs are doing is cherry picking and nerfing a class that shouldn't be nerfed. And never was nerfed the entire time in EQ up until now. Giving the reason "processing power wasn't strong enough back then," when it was. No one remembers swarm kiting on live? I do. I also remember grouping as a cleric in two wizard, two enchanter, puller, healer, aoe groups. Don't you remember clipping plane waaaay down and pointing your camera straight up or down while zoomed into first person? It wasn't lag free back then, but it was do-able. And somewhat well with the right tricks.

Admits to kiting mobs to prevent other players from killing them. Please suspend.

The right answer is to stop pulling at 25.

You have this sense of selfishness yourself, in that the game was designed with bards having the ability to do this. I don't think, the original, classic devs put a 25 mob limit on bards and any other aoeing class because that's how they wanted it. So you're saying someone should be suspended for playing a class how it was meant to be played back in 1999? On a server called project 1999? Your 25 mob opinion is better than the original EQ devs opinions on how the game was meant to be designed? In the years of trial and error in potentially the greatest rpgmmo ever created, you don't think those old devs would have noticed bards and other are classes needed a nerf like a patch as big as this last one?

For years since 1999 up until whenever, actual "live everquest," stopped being "live everquest" bards, wizards, and Enchanters were able to enjoy their class fully as they were intended to be enjoyed. This meant and should still mean picking that class at character select, should give you the ability to kite as many mobs as you want. Because, that is classic. 100% true to 1999 everquest as it was meant to be.

I think this change is a step in the wrong direction if p99 is truly meant to replicate everquest as it was then. I've always wanted to try a Bard and be able to pull those massive swarms unlike any other class. I'm sure a lot of other people want to do that to. Now they can't. Every class has their own type of "special ability" except for maybe.. Rangers? Shit, I'd trade being able to port around on my bard for being able to swarm. That's their ONE "special power" they're less than mediocre on the wide range of skills they have. They have a lot, but they're all gimped compared to the base classes spells. This was their one "talent" to really shine at, and now it's nerfed. Bye, classic bards. You will be truly missed.

So now what? If people want to be able to play wizards, bards, enchanters, clerics, and any other character that can pull an aoe group's swarm, how they were meant to be back then, they have to go pay on steam monthly to get the game how it was meant to be? But they can't even do that there, like it was then anymore because, it isn't all "classic".

This patch changed a HUGE part of the game for a lot of classes and players. I like this project because they've strived to keep things exactly as they were. This makes it less so. I don't see how more people don't feel the same.

- - -

I know this huge wall of text might get read by one or two people, but I have to reiterate what I meant in my original post. If this change was put in because people were complaining about massive swarm kites- - if bards were to pull more than 25 (no one wants to count mobs while they're pulling and they don't, because you can still kite more than 25 mobs) and they are, and will, because it's still easier to pull more than 25 and just kill them after the initial 25 go down in your swarm.. What I'm saying is, this change actually makes it worse for other players in terms of mobs being taken away from the field.

So, if a Bard pulls 50 mobs now, that's 25 mobs being killed by their slow ass dots in say, what? 5-10mins on a Bard with a non-twinked horn?. On top of that, 25 more mobs are in tow behind the bard waiting to be killed (it's just easier to grab a big ass swarm instead of counting while dodging other mobs) making respawn times on those unhit mobs even longer for other players. because, those 25 other mobs that were pulled have to wait even longer now to be killed because the dots only hit 25 at a time now. As a shitty example, add 5-10 more mins on other players having to wait for those mobs to spawn back on what used to be only 5-10 mins to kill a whole swarm.

It just makes everything worse for everyone (not just bards) if this patch change was intended to make more mobs available for everyone, besides bards. Even if that was a latter on "killing two birds with one stone" thing with putting "cpu power wasn't as strong back then" as the number one reason as to why this change was made.

[Ravager]

You have this sense of selfishness yourself, in that the game was designed with bards having the ability to do this.
1.) I'm the selfish one? I'm not the one bitching that I can't kill every mob in the zone, nor am I the one pulling more mobs than I can kill, just to make it easier on myself while simultaneously keeping others from killing mobs.
2.) Show me the docs that the Verant devs published saying this is how the game was designed to be played. Nowhere in the class description in any of the Verant published material does it say that bards are good at and known for killing 100 mobs at once.

[getoffmylawn]

1.) I'm the selfish one? I'm not the one bitching that I can't kill every mob in the zone, nor am I the one pulling more mobs than I can kill, just to make it easier on myself while simultaneously keeping others from killing mobs.
2.) Show me the docs that the Verant devs published saying this is how the game was designed to be played. Nowhere in the class description in any of the Verant published material does it say that bards are good at and known for killing 100 mobs at once.
I could go into crazy detail on that again, but eh whatever, too early in the day to argue.

What I will say is, why did the original developers put spells into the game that are able to hit every mob in an area around you (mainly if you are a bard, wizard, enchanter, whatever)? :D

I think they had in mind that players would do different exciting things with those tools instead of boring single pulls all the time. You can enjoy the game by playing one of those classes too ya know? I've put up with bard kites before and never once complained about it. Why all of a sudden are bards "ruining EQ"?/? wtf is happening?

[countytime]

I'm gonna quote myself here like a douchebag:

On live, AE groups were nerfed by reducing how many could have aggro on you at a time (to ~25, I think). That was a better solution, because those extra mobs would wander away, then come back and kill you when you were OOM. It wasn't just that you couldn't kill 25+ mobs; it was that you couldn't control 25+ mobs, something that's much more important.

In the current scenario on P99, a bard gathers every mob in a zone, then kills 25 of them, but the rest of the mobs are still under his control. So he kills the next 25. Etc, etc. The only thing that changes is the speed of the killing.

So the live solution was better, and I think they should revert the change and do that instead.

Just to clarify, the extra mobs didn't forget about you on Live; it was like you feign death'd, then got back up and they remembered you. (Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I remember it working.)

[Ravager]

I could go into crazy detail on that again, but eh whatever, too early in the day to argue.

What I will say is, why did the original developers put spells into the game that are able to hit every mob in an area around you (mainly if you are a bard, wizard, enchanter, whatever)? :D

I think they had in mind that players would do different exciting things with those tools instead of boring single pulls all the time. You can enjoy the game by playing one of those classes too ya know? I've put up with bard kites before and never once complained about it. Why all of a sudden are bards "ruining EQ"?/? wtf is happening?
I can't speak for the developers as to a why, but in game design balance is the first concern. A spell that damages every mob in the area is balanced by the fact that every mob in the area will now attack you. If the mobs can't hit you, you remove the balance and you enter the realm of exploit.

You don't have to search hard on these boards for people complaining about bards ruining this game, and it is not a "all of a sudden" complaint. It goes back years and years. Just because you'll put up with it, doesn't mean others want to.

[brecon]

I could go into crazy detail on that again, but eh whatever, too early in the day to argue.

What I will say is, why did the original developers put spells into the game that are able to hit every mob in an area around you (mainly if you are a bard, wizard, enchanter, whatever)? :D

I think they had in mind that players would do different exciting things with those tools instead of boring single pulls all the time. You can enjoy the game by playing one of those classes too ya know? I've put up with bard kites before and never once complained about it. Why all of a sudden are bards "ruining EQ"?/? wtf is happening?

Bard AoE was nerfed eventually because the exploit was figured out. Next.

[stormlord]

I'll say I think this belongs in the "not classic, but acceptable improvement" category. The probelm with these though is they're like mudflation. The more you add, the less like classic it becomes. The more like live it becomes. Everytime they made a change on live, it was always to "correct" something and inevitably that's what made it non-classic. Some of us didn't like that.

But I agree with the change. I've always hated AE groups. I was something like a level 75 or 80 ranger on live and they were do Earthshaker pulls and I wanted to vomit. It's so against the spirit of the game and so boring I can't contemplate WHY. Yes I know camping can be bad sometimes, depending on the situation, especially camping spawns alone, but at least you're doing something. In the best experience groups you're busy the whole time. In AE groups you just sit and chat. That's it. For me, Everquest was about the journey and about the "pulling" and "assisting" and "add!" and "need heal" and "run!" and so on. I guess some of you think tha'ts a treadmill, but I loved it.

I'll say I don't ever remember seeing bard pulls or AEing when I was playing Everquest in 1999. But when I played on project1999 in 2010 I do remember ocassionally seeing someone clearing Blackburrow or kiting everything in West Karana.

Oh and one last thing. What about Fear? Killing the zone was a tactic, wasn't it?

EDIT: There was a lot of adversity in Everquest. Whether it be trains, ninja stealing, corpse runs, scamming, or whatever. I'd include swarm kiters in the same category. You go somewhere and someone is swarm kiting it, so you have to find somewhere else. It's an inconvenience. They might mistakenly take your spawns. And yet that was part of the experience. I can't say I'd play if that was the ONLY part. But being able to fail or meet with a negative outcome is a special thing in MMO's, since so many try to remove it. I don't think it's necessarily a good thing. For me, it's hard to appreciate overcoming when there's no hurt or failure. Ok so you get a slap on the wrist every now and then in a very controlled way. That's no fun to me. I'm still that way. I need some adversity in MMO's to get attached to them.

[getoffmylawn]

I can't speak for the developers as to a why, but in game design balance is the first concern. A spell that damages every mob in the area is balanced by the fact that every mob in the area will now attack you. If the mobs can't hit you, you remove the balance and you enter the realm of exploit.

You don't have to search hard on these boards for people complaining about bards ruining this game, and it is not a "all of a sudden" complaint. It goes back years and years. Just because you'll put up with it, doesn't mean others want to.
Bard AoE was nerfed eventually because the exploit was figured out. Next. The worst thing about this patch is that it effects more than just bards. So basically a game design change was made to fix one class, but in order to that, they what? killed off aoe grps in the process?

[getoffmylawn]

If the mobs can't hit you, you remove the balance and you enter the realm of exploit..
Calling kiting an exploit. Sorry, but you're very ignorant.

[getoffmylawn]

But I agree with the change. I've always hated AE groups. I was something like a level 75 or 80 ranger on live and they were do Earthshaker pulls and I wanted to vomit. It's so against the spirit of the game and so boring I can't contemplate WHY. Yes I know camping can be bad sometimes, depending on the situation, especially camping spawns alone, but at least you're doing something. In the best experience groups you're busy the whole time. In AE groups you just sit and chat. That's it. For me, Everquest was about the journey and about the "pulling" and "assisting" and "add!" and "need heal" and "run!" and so on. I guess some of you think tha'ts a treadmill, but I loved it.
Totally understandable. This is the problem with this change though. Its a change on an unpopular class (unpopular in that other people hate lvling in the same zone as that class) so no one's going to fight for this class to stay classic.

While everyone knows, before this patch, is how it's been forever, and in my opinion, how it should stay, everyone will turn the other cheek because it makes the leveling "in open field experience" with their classes easier. This is close to the equivalent of letting necros and mages keep their pet buffs. Necros and mages could still kill solo without their pet buffs, it just wouldn't be as fast. That would also be a HUGE change to game mechanics, like this change. (edited this paragraph: this change makes it longer for bards to kill, and also keeps mobs away from other players longer. the change doesnt give more players to mobs. The change makes it so that bards will have more mobs in their swarm/stack of mobs longer because they can only hit 25 at a time now, instead of their entire swarm)

I'm guessing the people making these changes hate bards too :( They've done SOO well keeping every little thing classic up until this change. The players don't really care about the change because it makes things easier for them, so why the hell would anyone say anything bad about it? if biases didn't exist, the community would hate this change.

[Ravager]

Calling kiting an exploit. Sorry, but you're very ignorant.
I give up. You're right, I agree with you 100% and we have no need to argue any longer. I see that I was wrong now. A level 2 bard strafe kiting every single mob in a noob yard, with no risk to himself and AEing them all down at once is not exploiting game mechanics. A bard with Selos kiting every mob in a zone and AEing them down all at once using mob pathing to stay out of their attack cones is not an exploit, but an intended feature of the game.

Further it is plain to me that this is exactly as the original devs imagined their game being played and come to think of it, all of my recollections of playing EverQuest 1999 to the present day include a bard AEing a train in every outdoor zone. I don't know how I forgot about it. I even remember how fun it was every time I encountered a kiting bard and how it didn't affect the game play for myself or others in the same zone as it in any but positive ways.

This patch is ridiculous and should be undone immediately. In protest I will join my bard friends and kite mobs incessantly to show the devs here that this patch has only made it worse for everyone on the server since it will take bards 4 times as long to kill all of the mobs in a zone.

[getoffmylawn]

Before this patch:

you just zoned into your favorite hunting zone. there are 100 mobs in zone. Big bad Bard comes and takes 75 of your 100 mobs.

Bard takes those mobs to his favourite kiting spot and dots them down.

5 mins later, those mobs start to respawn, enabling you and whoever else to start tagging them back to your soloing spot.

Now, after patch:

You just zoned into your favorite hunting zone. there are 100 mobs in zone. Big bad Bard comes and takes 75 of your 100 mobs.

Bard takes those mobs to his favourite kiting spot and dots them down.

5 mins later 25 mobs in his stack are dead but 50 remain, that still aren't respawning for rest in zone. Another 5 mins later 25 more die, leaving the remaining 25 mobs still chasing him around, unable to respawn for the rest of the players due to recent patch. 5 mins after that, the rest of his stack dies.

effectively, this patch added on 10-20 mins that people may have to wait for things to start respawning. While the change nerfs a lot of things with a lot of collateral nerfing damage in the process, it doesn't help anyone in any way. If anything, it makes things worse for everyone including those this patch was intended to help.

[getoffmylawn]

A level 2 bard strafe kiting every single mob in a noob yard, with no risk to himself and AEing them all down at once is not exploiting game mechanicslol

You do realize the risks involved with kiting right? especially more so with a noob with no gear? Give me a break.. player who has never played a bard confirmed.

maybe the exploit you speak of, that EVERY class uses, should be fixed instead of nerfing entire sets of classes and spells?

Also, just to add, I've never ONCE used that exploit you mentioned to kite a swarm of mobs. The pile of corpses in FV, and OT I've left behind are proof of that and you can ask anyone on the server who has seen them. I don't exploit anyhting to swarm kite. Never will, never have.

[Ravager]

lol

You do realize the risks involved with kiting right? especially more so with a noob with no gear? Give me a break.. player who has never played a bard confirmed.
You're being kind of a jerk. I just agreed with you and told you you're right and I'm wrong and then you laugh in my face. Bully.

[Ravager]

Before this patch:

you just zoned into your favorite hunting zone. there are 100 mobs in zone. Big bad Bard comes and takes 75 of your 100 mobs.

Bard takes those mobs to his favourite kiting spot and dots them down.

5 mins later, those mobs start to respawn, enabling you and whoever else to start tagging them back to your soloing spot.

Now, after patch:

You just zoned into your favorite hunting zone. there are 100 mobs in zone. Big bad Bard comes and takes 75 of your 100 mobs.

Bard takes those mobs to his favourite kiting spot and dots them down.

5 mins later 25 mobs in his stack are dead but 50 remain, that still aren't respawning for rest in zone. Another 5 mins later 25 more die, leaving the remaining 25 mobs still chasing him around, unable to respawn for the rest of the players due to recent patch. 5 mins after that, the rest of his stack dies.

effectively, this patch added on 10-20 mins that people may have to wait for things to start respawning. While the change nerfs a lot of things with a lot of collateral nerfing damage in the process, it doesn't help anyone in any way. If anything, it makes things worse for everyone including those this patch was intended to help.
Yep, you're right!

[getoffmylawn]

You're being kind of a jerk. I just agreed with you and told you you're right and I'm wrong and then you laugh in my face. Bully.
lol good stuff

[Ravager]

lol good stuff
I concur.

[SheWolf]

i tried to log into everquest and when i did it says i need new files but my character is not coming up nothing is the same as when i use to log in. if i get the files should my account go back to normal? i dont know what happened to my character!!!!!! is there a way to get your characters back....how did it just vanish? please someone help me!

[Eras]

Shewolf, on the first page of this post there is a link that is called Project 1999 files (v43). Click that and unzip them in your P99 folder overwriting any existing files then try opening the game again :)

[renordw]

Not to be rude, but why did this fix take 6 years?

[stifling]

Level 56 bard main here, have been playing for about 18 months and still have no max toons. I have no problems with the concept of limiting bard swarms on the server.
The rules have always been clear...

"Zone/Area Disruption is defined as any activity designed to harm or inconvenience a number of groups rather than a specific player or group of players. This includes, but is not limited to::

-Monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area."

Whether you are a nice bard or an ass hat, i've been both, your swarm kiting is affecting others and was always intended by the devs on the server to be against the rules, "not classic" arguments are moronic. The problem is they have never been able to effectively enforce the rule. I say to the devs: keep at it, keep trying new things to fix the problem if this fix doesn't do it right. Don't ever apologize, just keep at it and thanks for the hard, unforgiving work. I do appreciate it

/rant

NO ONE BENEFITS when getting your bard or your PL pal to the end game as fast as possible is the only goal:

-There are enough shitty bards out there that we bards who wish to group and practice our art cannot get one over another class because we all have a bad name.
-This game is different from WoW for a reason that I believe the Devs understand. Its not about consuming content, its about human relationships within a framework where people have a common ground and a common enemy, and swords. Where people can have some measure of success and fun inside another world when their RL world may be a pile of shit that they daily have to wade through in order to get by.
-No one benefits when shortcuts circumvent the purpose of the game. Being a higher level has never been necessarily more fun IMO, though there may be more people to play with and I suppose more to do? Who remembers their last ToV clear as being more enjoyable than that time when you helped out a lowbie with 300plat who then paid it forward to another lowbie when it was nothing to him, or that time you challenged the leader of the biggest guild on the server to a duel when you were a lvl 30 decently self-geared paladin and he was a lvl 60 warrior but naked and you nearly won? Levels aren't everything folks, and the Devs understood that going into this thing, this "classic EQ" server they have fashioned from the ground up.

It's their server, they get it and you don't so stfu and thank them for their attempts to recreate some magic that is damn ellusive and basically unknown in the game world today. The magic that it was then spawned an entire generation of games that all lost sight in one way or another of the reason why the memories stuck, its about other people and swarm kiting is a threat to that.

Is it the best fix? obviously not. Is it way to damn late? The devs are not working on the now, they are working on the next. So be constructive like some of the better comments to this thread have been and talk about how it can be fixed and suggest real solutions that lead people together, even if they choose to solo play in EQ.

/rant

[xatmakin]

Well, there goes my business. Time to close shop!

[mdavis522]

I'm just glad i can still play old skool eq. Have any of you logged on to live lately? /shiver
I am forever grateful for the opportunity to relive my noob feeling days and get that awesome nostalgia going. I don't take it as seriously as I did on live. It's like getting to be a kid again. Priceless. I'm taking it slow and taking it all in. Let us remember, we are fortunate to have p99 at all!

[Nerocon]

Have not played p99 in ages, but check up from time to time to read patch notes etc. I totally understand why the AE groups are a problem, as they can totally disrupt an entire zone. I played a wizard from 99 to 2003 and ran many AE groups. Back then we were nice about it and would only AE group late nights in empty dungeons. I see today people are not being so honorable. Our best pull ever was 120 mobs in Seb at disco right on the stage. Our average was 30 to 60 mobs per pull and we could normally maintain that. I did not have a great connection, I did not have a great computer. Turning particles all the way down and looking at the floor while mobs were up is all you needed. Same method used in any situation back in the day, raids with 100+ players did the same, people still did that.

However, AE groups were not without risk. Full group wipes happened often the puller was a death sentence, even with runes they would die every few pulls. I think this is where the problem is with P99 AE groups. They are way safer and produce gobs of XP and loot. Instead of nerfing AE's and killing a totally legit method of play why not fix the problem by reducing XP for those types of groups.

As a guild we would AE fear yard trash to clear the zone for CT, this was not mass amounts at a time but was constant and we would rotate wizards and enchanters for medding while they chewed rods and were twiched.

btw if you want a real AE group challenge, Charsis.

--edit--
Even still have a screenshot of 30+ in the same location described above. attached

[getoffmylawn]

Not to be rude, but why did this fix take 6 years?
This didn't really fix anything though. Bards can still pull as many mobs as they want. All this patch did was eliminate a part of the game that was kinda fun. The possibility of AoE grps.

I don't mind if they made it completely impossible for bards to solo. I like grouping 100x more and rarely swarm kite. With that said, I still don't get why people think this is a good fix. Its definitely a step in the right direction, but imo doesn't fix the root problem. It breaks other parts of the game in an attempt to fix another thing and that is never good.

You can even argue it makes the swarming problem worse, in that its taking mobs away from other players for a longer duration. The pulling bard can still pull 100 mobs, it just takes longer to kill, which in turn leaves more mobs in their swarm, which means less mobs for others for a longer time period.

/* edit
Theres also only about two zones where this is a problem. DL and OT. Well, Oasis too. The oasis should be a concern as its a lowbie zone and that actually does suck when a bard goes and sweeps the entire zone. Make swarming in Oasis suspendable. I've personally never swarmed here and never would, but have xp'd here while a bard was doing it and sucked. As for DL/OT - Can't bards get one zone to do their thing in?
edit */

All i'm trying to do is give constructive criticism which I think the owners of this server appreciate? hopefully? If they dont want bards soloing that badly, just make it punishable or something. Don't take away from other classes in the process.

[ImaTreeHEAD]

How does one update these files if using Wineskin to launch on a Mac?

[qwee]

Hi, I'm a pretty casual player here, but I haven't been able to log in since this patch. I've attempted updating my files many times, but I continue to get the error message upon logging in.

Any suggestions? The files in my directory are seemingly up to date. Never had a problem before this patch.

[Kender]

there is another patch after this one

[Nahilu]

I used to Swam Kite with bard back in the days yes with 56k connection and yes it was lagging and yes i was managing the lag while swarm kitting.

IT WAS ORIGINAL EQ

Everquest == Bigger the danger is , bigger the reward is and it what make it so great about this game.

Haters ... jealousy ... they will always be part of this world. and they just won the round.

When i was Swarming with my bard on Project 1999 , It was challenging and a mistake kill you. It what make a good video games. The challenge VS the reward.

Now with 25 Targets .... I mean we play a totally different EverQuest then back in the days and I am not glad about it.

The reason of 56k and graphic card .... gimme a break . On project 1999 Disable all effect make your graphic run the lowest possible , remove everything that calculate from the chat there just way to do it .... like it always been.

I killed my bard 60 for EEs from 60 to 46 since now there no point into logging my bard the one things he was good at it , he now bad at it.

But Once Again ,
Haters ... jealousy ... Cryers ....

The won this round like every round.

I would be polite but you know what I think .....

Anyway i sold for Over 1 Million PP plvl 1 50 into the server i did my money and thanks for it.

[bigbard1]

I used to Swam Kite with bard back in the days yes with 56k connection and yes it was lagging and yes i was managing the lag while swarm kitting.

IT WAS ORIGINAL EQ

Everquest == Bigger the danger is , bigger the reward is and it what make it so great about this game.

Haters ... jealousy ... they will always be part of this world. and they just won the round.

When i was Swarming with my bard on Project 1999 , It was challenging and a mistake kill you. It what make a good video games. The challenge VS the reward.

Now with 25 Targets .... I mean we play a totally different EverQuest then back in the days and I am not glad about it.

The reason of 56k and graphic card .... gimme a break . On project 1999 Disable all effect make your graphic run the lowest possible , remove everything that calculate from the chat there just way to do it .... like it always been.

I killed my bard 60 for EEs from 60 to 46 since now there no point into logging my bard the one things he was good at it , he now bad at it.

But Once Again ,
Haters ... jealousy ... Cryers ....

The won this round like every round.

I would be polite but you know what I think .....

Anyway i sold for Over 1 Million PP plvl 1 50 into the server i did my money and thanks for it.
Lol