Rogues, don't spend dkp on Sky belt

[bktroost]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2350625#post2350625


Apparently it is not doing anything more than an RBG for backstab refresh rates (yes you stil get 1% more worn haste from sky belt over epic). Gogo sta+hp.


Can someone give me more insight? I posted in bug forum, but i'm really wondering if i'm just missing something very simple.

Edit: Unless of course you have a primal+ tunare dagger/vulak dagger+eashan weapon.

[bktroost]

Oh, i just had a thought! Does anyone know if these haste items effect the cooldown of kick, bash, slam, etc?

If so then i wonder if the haste discrepancy is functioning properly for those.


Anyone got any data?

[xKoopa]

I would assume bash/kick are also affected in the same way

I could maybe log on monk later and kick things with/without my rbb on but im no scientist so itd be guess work

[Jimjam]

Did you have the same spell haste in each trial?

Perhaps there is a minimum delay for these melee abilities (which is easily reachable even with marginal amounts of haste). Are there any melee abilities with a greater delay than standard? that would be one way to test; such an ability would require more haste to reach the minimum delay..

[bktroost]

I would assume bash/kick are also affected in the same way

I could maybe log on monk later and kick things with/without my rbb on but im no scientist so itd be guess work

From the data i took last night it seems to me that there has to be a window of refresh for these cooldowns rather than a set timer that is effected. I got an average that was lower with haste items but the average was the same regardless of haste, however, I had an anomaly of an 8 second backstab with no epic, no haste (average was 10s) and as low as a 7 second on sky belt (average 8 seconds).

I'd be willing to say that backstab with sky belt is a set 7.x seconds but i was not able to finger the key fast enough to show that consistently (i refused to use autofire), but that doesn't hold true for the no epic, no haste being a whopping 2 seconds late on average of a set 8 seconds.

So i really think that there's more at play here.

[bktroost]

Did you have the same spell haste in each trial?

Perhaps there is a minimum delay for these melee abilities (which is easily reachable even with marginal amounts of haste). Are there any melee abilities with a greater delay than standard? that would be one way to test; such an ability would require more haste to reach the minimum delay..

no haste other than the isolated hastes described in the study.

Those hastes include, ragebringer haste (worn 40% epic), RBG (worn 27%) and Sky belt (worn 41%).

[Cecily]

I like you, but this is bad advice and I need to burn it down. Calling shenanigans on this whole test and Nemce's conclusion.
Also this should be posted in melee (don't bother now), not general chat or bugs.

[bktroost]

I like you, but this is bad advice and I need to burn it down. Calling shenanigans on this whole test and Nemce's conclusion.
Also this should be posted in melee (don't bother now), not general chat or bugs.

Nemce agrees, after some coffee and looking at data again, that his conclusion is false.

While the mode and median would indicate an average that is equivalent, the mean shows a .4 speed increase from a sky belt with a data set of 5 attempts.

The RBG 27% haste reduced the mode and median backstabs from epic/no haste from 10 to 8 seconds. That means each point of worn haste is 0.074 seconds. a 41% worn haste should provide 3.034 seconds off the refresh.

The puzzling thing is the 8 second no haste, no epic backstab which, if triple repeatable in same conditions, would indicate a window of refresh rather than a base refresh.

Need more data and we need to be using autofire.


But this is the result of interpolating to a conclusion rather than extrapolating from the data. I am guilty.

[Cecily]

Yeah the 8 second one is bothering me too. I'm going with manasana is secretly a bard hiding in wolves skin.

[Freakish]

Base backstab time = 10 seconds. 100% haste will lower this to 5 seconds.
100 = 5.0 seconds
41 = 2.05 seconds
27 = 1.385 seconds
41% haste is 0.665 faster on the cool down which is difficult to display when EQ logs come out in 1.0 sec delay relays.

If you want the raw numbers with each haste item equipped, backstab will refresh in:

41%: 7.95 seconds
27%: 8.615 seconds
0%: 10.0 seconds

[bktroost]

Base backstab time = 10 seconds. 100% haste will lower this to 5 seconds.
100 = 5.0 seconds
41 = 2.05 seconds
27 = 1.385 seconds
41% haste is 0.665 faster on the cool down which is difficult to display when EQ logs come out in 1.0 sec delay relays.

If you want the raw numbers with each haste item equipped, backstab will refresh in:

41%: 7.95 seconds
27%: 8.615 seconds
0%: 10.0 seconds

What data?

[Freakish]

Are you going to nitpick this? You posted your own data over on bugs, in a separate thread from the other haste bug thread. There's plenty of data showing that haste IS lowering cooldown. Just not epic haste. Which is the bug. If you want the extra 0.665 seconds between each backstab, go with a good haste item. If you don't care, keep your rbg. As far as I know, epic is functional on regular attacks so it won't be a problem.

[bdastomper58]

So how many rbgs are you selling?

[bktroost]

Are you going to nitpick this? You posted your own data over on bugs, in a separate thread from the other haste bug thread. There's plenty of data showing that haste IS lowering cooldown. Just not epic haste. Which is the bug. If you want the extra 0.665 seconds between each backstab, go with a good haste item. If you don't care, keep your rbg. As far as I know, epic is functional on regular attacks so it won't be a problem.

Yeah, didn't realize there was a haste thread. Was just trying to understand some things. But I found a lot of resources today I didn't know existed. I'd be fine with a gm wiping the thread.

[captain]

The real question here is who the fuck spends DKP in sky at this point in the game?

[Erati]

41% doesnt grow on trees dude

if you arnt killing Yelinak, doing Dozekar quests or get NTOV raid loot.....Sky 41% belts are your only option for haste above CoF

[Cecily]

Well, it's one for the money,
Two for the show,
Three to get ready,
Now go, cat, go.

But don't you step on my grey suede boots.
You can do anything but lay off of my grey suede boots.

Well, you can knock me down,
Step in my face,
Slander my name
All over the place.

Do anything that you want to do, but uh-uh,
Honey, lay off of my boots
Don't you step on my grey suede boots.
You can do anything but lay off of my grey suede boots.

You can burn my house,
Steal my car,
Drink my liquor
From an old fruitjar.

Do anything that you want to do, but uh-uh,
Honey, lay off of my boots
Don't you step on my grey suede boots.
You can do anything but lay off of my grey suede boots.

[fadetree]

This is the worst post and data collection I've ever seen.

You need to get out more.

[maskedmelon]

Base backstab time = 10 seconds. 100% haste will lower this to 5 seconds.
100 = 5.0 seconds
41 = 2.05 seconds
27 = 1.385 seconds
41% haste is 0.665 faster on the cool down which is difficult to display when EQ logs come out in 1.0 sec delay relays.

If you want the raw numbers with each haste item equipped, backstab will refresh in:

41%: 7.95 seconds
27%: 8.615 seconds
0%: 10.0 seconds

Bad math,

Hasted_Delay = Base_Delay/(1+haste/100)

At 100 delay:

100h_Delay = 100/(1+100/100) = 100/(1+1) = 100/2 = 50
41h_Delay = 100/(1+41/100) = 100/(1+.41) = 100/1.41 = 71


This is why our Mayor asked for some data. Your numbers don't conform to haste calculations.

[syztem]

posted about this in melee/rogue section some 6 months ago and someone did up the math. nilbog confirmed working as intended ever since patch shows haste % there is no way to fix it without reverting backwards. When I was raiding with a dozen rogues, some who had primal, others who didn't but wore eashens claw or had sky haste belt anda 12/17 weapon were outparsing others. Then on top of that, the ability to get triple duelist backstabs off with ease wearing just a 41% haste item made it very clear something was wrong

since deadeye was always used in classic due to guaranteed 3x backstabs even if min hit, but 3x duelist backstabs = win win win even with bad RNG you're likely to do more. too lazy to dig up his posts, but if you search for it youll find that unless he reverses the quiver haste theres no way to fix it properly(atleast at the time his words were something like that)

[Bummey]

unless he reverses the quiver haste theres no way to fix it properly(atleast at the time his words were something like that)

He could simply change the Ragebringer to lose the Seething Fury effect and instead have added worn stats of 9 ac, 40atk, and 40% haste.

But that wouldn't be ~*~*classic*~*~

[Jimjam]

He could simply change the Ragebringer to lose the Seething Fury effect and instead have added worn stats of 9 ac, 40atk, and 40% haste.

But that wouldn't be ~*~*classic*~*~

can items have two effects? seems the solution is to just add 40% worn haste as a second effect on ragebringer.

Afterall, isn't the AC on seething fury spell, so comes under different factors and caps to worn ac?