View Full Version : Hardest raid encounter on this server?
maxlaurent
08-22-2016, 08:09 AM
What is the hardest raid encounter on this server ?
I heard AoW, any other thoughts ?
Thanks for answer !
icedwards
08-22-2016, 08:15 AM
AoW is just a numbers game. Throw enough warriors, clerics and rogues at it and it'll die. It's a 0 second CH chain, so if someone messes up you'll have a dead warrior and stabilizing is where the wheels come off. Tunare is another 0 second chain, and her mechanics are a little tougher than AoW.
Lord Vyemm is traditionally very difficult with his knock back, but on this server he's pulled to a safe spot.
Sontalak is definitely the toughest mob right now though. He's way over tuned and if he flips he'll wipe your raid force.
khanable
08-22-2016, 08:18 AM
cargalia
You should not have dared!
icedwards
08-22-2016, 08:20 AM
cargalia
You should not have dared!
The actual correct answer.
Cecily
08-22-2016, 08:21 AM
Hoshkar still imo.
AoW should be but it could be argued that sontalak is tougher on this server. Aow is a simple tank and spank as long as your clerics are on point, agro clickies make tank switches pretty easy which is not really classic...ae taunt in luclin made things much easier.
Sontalak does so much ae damage that you need to have packs of wort pots on everyone. And his fear hits too reliably. Despite having probably less than 100k hp he can destroy a whole raid in 10 seconds.
khanable
08-22-2016, 08:27 AM
My (serious) opinion would be Tunare. Yes, sont is a rape truck asshole prick but having to clear growth (is it still being cleared these days?) for 6-8 hours on top of having to ogre wall your tanks is just a massive pain in the dick. By the time it's actually time to kill Tunare half your raid is in a Mountain Dew and hot pocket half-coma and now they need to do non-trivial shit which makes said non-trivial shit much more difficult.
azeth
08-22-2016, 08:32 AM
Sontalak and its not even close
If Klandicar didn't drop the Matchless BP, it'd far and away be the rarest and most valuable piece of BIS raid loot. Killing Sont is truly purposeless at this point.
Tunare and AoW are reliant on classic EQ raiding principles. Strong warriors, strong DPS and a lot of clerics.
Sontalak relies on RNG, clickies, micromanagement of DPS health, VERY strong dps...
Trungep99
08-22-2016, 08:48 AM
AoW usually wipes raids more than other raid targets. I think Tunare requires more skill though on everyone.
It's a toss up
Lojik
08-22-2016, 08:57 AM
I mean I guess it's what you perceive as "harder:"
Dropping a few hundred K on wort pots for sont, or 80 people clearing trash for 6 hours
nyclin
08-22-2016, 09:09 AM
Sontalak or Tunare by far. Sontalak is just a beast, and one instance of low HP aggro can wipe your entire raid.
Tunare herself isn't *incredibly* hard though there is somewhat of an element of RNG to her fight. The real difficulty is what Cucumbers said - keeping people engaged after 6+hrs of clearing PoG.
azeth
08-22-2016, 09:27 AM
I mean I guess it's what you perceive as "harder:"
Dropping a few hundred K on wort pots for sont, or 80 people clearing trash for 6 hours
It's more than just using worts. You'll have DPS in there with like 3900 HP buffed that'll go 100% to < 25% almost instantaneously.
Beyond that, you can't click worts when you're feared. So regardless of who has 4500+ hp, and who has 255 MR... if the RNG gods get you with fear consecutively 2-3 times you're toast.
So there you are feared & running, going lower and lower hp, unable to click worts, out of range of heals and right as you hit like 25% HP... guess what? Low hp aggro. Raid's over.
That's just the perspective from 1 of the 50+ DPS on your raid.
Atmas
08-22-2016, 10:00 AM
From the perspective of being at the majority of AoW, Tunare, and Sont kills, Sontalak is definitely the hardest. Tunare obviously takes more time to get to but can be done very consistently with the right setup.
Sont is such a crapshoot. He has abilities that fire way way to frequently and are way way to effective. You can't zerg him and the carnage he can unleash in a few seconds is so massive. If you have a f-up with other targets you can recover, with him it's pretty much game over. Beating him usually requires measures that were never necessary on live.
Spyder73
08-22-2016, 10:18 AM
There are no winners in Elf Sim ~Maelilith
xKoopa
08-22-2016, 10:25 AM
Sont isnt hard theoretically if you can keep him turned away from ur dps but that proc.. if he turns for a second and ur dps doesnt take off attack immediately then ur dead
I remember one sont fight where i was alive and healthy for like 2 mins til everyone wiped so its definitely sustainable if ur ppl are on point and careful
Freakish
08-22-2016, 10:39 AM
Bristlebane hasn't been killed yet on this server. All i'm sayin.
kotton05
08-22-2016, 10:52 AM
Bristlebane hasn't been killed yet on this server. All i'm sayin.
I think you win.
It really all depends on numbers. You can zerg 99% of Classic EQ very effectively, with AOW being a classic example.
Sontalak is so much harder than the other ones because zerg doesn't work (due to not-classic mechanics).
When done with appropriate numbers, the Chardok Royals, Trakanon under pressure, and Ring War are probably the most demanding (1 group, 3 groups, 6 groups respectively)
Lojik
08-22-2016, 11:17 AM
It's more than just using worts. You'll have DPS in there with like 3900 HP buffed that'll go 100% to < 25% almost instantaneously.
Beyond that, you can't click worts when you're feared. So regardless of who has 4500+ hp, and who has 255 MR... if the RNG gods get you with fear consecutively 2-3 times you're toast.
So there you are feared & running, going lower and lower hp, unable to click worts, out of range of heals and right as you hit like 25% HP... guess what? Low hp aggro. Raid's over.
That's just the perspective from 1 of the 50+ DPS on your raid.
Yah but if you wipe to sont you can just try again, wipe 3 times that's a couple hours max, still much smaller time investment than tunare.
xKoopa
08-22-2016, 11:19 AM
Yah but if you wipe to sont you can just try again, wipe 3 times that's a couple hours max, still much smaller time investment than tunare.
But the recharge cost..
Erati
08-22-2016, 11:22 AM
if they made ToV dragons unslowable - holy moly things would be far more interesting when encountering them
Cazic Thule should get a mini shout out here as he is a major pain in the ass and will beast on any unprepared raid force. I feel guilds have wiped to him more frequently than most non-Sontalak or AOW encounters. Sont/AoW are a bit overtuned so the margin for error is slim to none, Cazic can be overcome with some good raid set up and execution.
Slaying him cleanly probably still one of the most fun and satisfying raids bc its all about executing the strat and surviving from 100%-0%.
Lojik
08-22-2016, 11:25 AM
But the recharge cost..
As stated in my first post: it all depends on what you think is a smaller investment: how ever many 100k to down sont in a relatively short time, or 80 people spending hours clearing trash. Plus what are recharge costs on tunare encounter and clearing growth.
Edit: the answer is probably tunare, it's just people are willing to put forth the investment for some bis loot.
if they made ToV dragons unslowable - holy moly things would be far more interesting when encountering them
The content isn't super hard, but it's actually pretty fun when you do it with reasonable numbers, i.e. 30-40 rather than 80-90. The problem is variance; no one wants even a 1% chance at losing after all that tracking, so everyone zergs.
Erati
08-22-2016, 11:42 AM
The content isn't super hard, but it's actually pretty fun when you do it with reasonable numbers, i.e. 30-40 rather than 80-90. The problem is variance; no one wants even a 1% chance at losing after all that tracking, so everyone zergs.
I disagree. Even only having around 40, most those dragons slowed are very casual kills if DPS knows how to duck around corners and the clerics dont fall asleep with the 4-5 sec pause.
Dragons melt with 80 tho and yes its very very trivial even without slow, but being able to slow these beasts really takes the edge off how scary they 'could' be
Freakish
08-22-2016, 11:43 AM
The content isn't super hard, but it's actually pretty fun when you do it with reasonable numbers, i.e. 30-40 rather than 80-90. The problem is variance; no one wants even a 1% chance at losing after all that tracking, so everyone zergs.
The problem is vultures*. It's frustrating to kill something to 20% and then another guild swoops in and kills it. AoW wasn't killed without a vulture at first. Same with Cazic-Thule, and others i'm not remembering.
Daldaen
08-22-2016, 11:53 AM
Sontalak is the easy winner on P99 because we have non-classic mechanics.
If we had 100% Classic EQ mechanics...
Sontalak's AE would be every 12 seconds and the proc would only hit the MT. The fear would be far more easily resistable and anyone with decent resists when hit would be feared for 6 seconds or less. This fight would be doable with 30-40 P99ers.
Tunare would not be perma-rooted. Allowing a good puller to pull her from her spawn location to the temple east of the zoneline, which then let's you corner tank her negating the challenging Knockback/root mechanic which forces tank swaps and speed bumps. Just a tank/cleric/DPS fight like most of the rest of EQ. Doable by a solid 60 P99ers with a fairly optimized CH chain, warrior list and melee DPS.
AoW like the above, simply a check against number of clerics, warriors and melee DPS. Doable again by a solid 60 P99ers. I think AoW would be doable with around 30-40 players if you are running 10-15 Druid/Enchanter Charmers, 10ish Clerics and a few mages/shamans/Paladins to Debuff and control breaks. But the world will never know!
Given classic EQ Mechanics, I'd say AoW wins the most challenging fight. His damage output and mitigation are higher than Tunares, and in classic Velious due to her not being permarooted you could negate her ability entirely to force tank swaps or kill random DPS.
This assumes the raid mob in a vacuum. If you're talking about the environment then Tunare simply because that clear sucks. A classic NToV crawl sucks about as much though...
I'd really love to see Vulak Ring Event implemented here. Just to provide one challenging raid that doesn't get snap FTE'd. In era that's a raid that is actually tuned to a 60-70 man raid where everyone's role actually matters. Or Luclin cause hot damn there are some many great raids to pick from.
Mendo
08-22-2016, 01:26 PM
if they made ToV dragons unslowable - holy moly things would be far more interesting when encountering them
Cazic Thule should get a mini shout out here as he is a major pain in the ass and will beast on any unprepared raid force. I feel guilds have wiped to him more frequently than most non-Sontalak or AOW encounters. Sont/AoW are a bit overtuned so the margin for error is slim to none, Cazic can be overcome with some good raid set up and execution.
Slaying him cleanly probably still one of the most fun and satisfying raids bc its all about executing the strat and surviving from 100%-0%.
Let's make TOV an outdoor zone like VP!
The thing with Cazic is that guilds are racing to him. That's part of the challenge. The other big challenge is that you have to blow up the entire plane of fear while at the same time making sure that you get CT from your opponent. You really have two raids at the same time.
1. Blowing up fear
2. Fighting CT
Maciver
08-22-2016, 01:52 PM
Sontalak is the easy winner on P99 because we have non-classic mechanics.
If we had 100% Classic EQ mechanics...
Sontalak's AE would be every 12 seconds and the proc would only hit the MT. The fear would be far more easily resistable and anyone with decent resists when hit would be feared for 6 seconds or less. This fight would be doable with 30-40 P99ers.
Tunare would not be perma-rooted. Allowing a good puller to pull her from her spawn location to the temple east of the zoneline, which then let's you corner tank her negating the challenging Knockback/root mechanic which forces tank swaps and speed bumps. Just a tank/cleric/DPS fight like most of the rest of EQ. Doable by a solid 60 P99ers with a fairly optimized CH chain, warrior list and melee DPS.
AoW like the above, simply a check against number of clerics, warriors and melee DPS. Doable again by a solid 60 P99ers. I think AoW would be doable with around 30-40 players if you are running 10-15 Druid/Enchanter Charmers, 10ish Clerics and a few mages/shamans/Paladins to Debuff and control breaks. But the world will never know!
Given classic EQ Mechanics, I'd say AoW wins the most challenging fight. His damage output and mitigation are higher than Tunares, and in classic Velious due to her not being permarooted you could negate her ability entirely to force tank swaps or kill random DPS.
This assumes the raid mob in a vacuum. If you're talking about the environment then Tunare simply because that clear sucks. A classic NToV crawl sucks about as much though...
I'd really love to see Vulak Ring Event implemented here. Just to provide one challenging raid that doesn't get snap FTE'd. In era that's a raid that is actually tuned to a 60-70 man raid where everyone's role actually matters. Or Luclin cause hot damn there are some many great raids to pick from.
Tunare was super easy to pull on my monk. Put box druid in tree, harmony everything. I would assist druid from the bottom and use bio orb to pull her. Didn't even need line of sight. I was still using her loot at level 85 when i quit, clicky belt and snare stick ftw. Good stuff.
So why have they been altered here? Developer choice or they can't figure out how to make it the same? I've noticed small differences since i started playing, but i didn't think they were altering things on purpose...
Erati
08-22-2016, 01:54 PM
totally agree @Mendo and thats what makes him fun- the chess match with all those kite going on. The encounter himself though cannot be face rolled without the proper raid make up and strategy.
I feel you could bring pretty much any type of raid force on a slowed ToV dragon and as long as the pull is clean the kill is pretty much in the bag. Getting a train to come down and wipe you seems to be the only way anyone fails to slowable dragons in ToV.
Kodim
08-22-2016, 02:10 PM
Thankfully for Tunare even if you wipe, you still have multiple chances because no one is waiting around to snipe.
It makes it a lot less stressful. CT on the other hand has so much going on; Draco/Golems/AoE/CT all in one raid.
Daldaen
08-22-2016, 03:25 PM
totally agree @Mendo and thats what makes him fun- the chess match with all those kite going on. The encounter himself though cannot be face rolled without the proper raid make up and strategy.
I feel you could bring pretty much any type of raid force on a slowed ToV dragon and as long as the pull is clean the kill is pretty much in the bag. Getting a train to come down and wipe you seems to be the only way anyone fails to slowable dragons in ToV.
Cornering/Walling Gaters, letting CHers CH, and being really stupid eating AEs like Zlexak. Are a few other ways you could fail a slowable dragon.
But I agree with your sentiment. Slow is OP and trivializes far too much about the game, even in the raid scene.
Joyelle
08-22-2016, 03:29 PM
Ban slows!
icedwards
08-22-2016, 03:50 PM
^^
Druids and clerics are just jelly.
Erati
08-22-2016, 04:02 PM
omg if my druid could slow and Bind Sight....
indiscriminate_hater
08-22-2016, 04:14 PM
fippy hands down
Kowalski
08-22-2016, 04:18 PM
Has to be...
Atmas
08-22-2016, 04:21 PM
As stated in my first post: it all depends on what you think is a smaller investment: how ever many 100k to down sont in a relatively short time, or 80 people spending hours clearing trash. Plus what are recharge costs on tunare encounter and clearing growth.
Edit: the answer is probably tunare, it's just people are willing to put forth the investment for some bis loot.
I get what you are saying but the thing is even if you blow a bunch of consumables you can still very easily fail an encounter with Sont, repeatedly, until you can't continue. The RNG factor on his encounter is so off the wall too. Growth does take a lot of time but the clear isn't too challenging; especially as you get more familiar with the strats. Sont requires more of every person in the raid and sometimes failure is literally beyond your control. ie: People get blasted into low health as they are feared. Or all tanks get feared and you have a turn.
Ravager
08-22-2016, 04:33 PM
Does it matter? Nobody plays this game the way it was meant to be played. It's like considering which poker hand is the toughest to get when half the cards in the deck are wild and the winner is the one who scoops the pot the fastest.
Does it matter? Nobody plays this game the way it was meant to be played. It's like considering which poker hand is the toughest to get when half the cards in the deck are wild and the winner is the one who scoops the pot the fastest.
I believe we should ban the forward pass, that isn't how football was meant to be played.
Lojik
08-22-2016, 04:57 PM
I get what you are saying but the thing is even if you blow a bunch of consumables you can still very easily fail an encounter with Sont, repeatedly, until you can't continue. The RNG factor on his encounter is so off the wall too. Growth does take a lot of time but the clear isn't too challenging; especially as you get more familiar with the strats. Sont requires more of every person in the raid and sometimes failure is literally beyond your control. ie: People get blasted into low health as they are feared. Or all tanks get feared and you have a turn.
If Tunare dropped the same loot as Sontalak would A/A kill her?
nyclin
08-22-2016, 06:06 PM
If Tunare dropped the same loot as Sontalak would A/A kill her?
Probably not. Tunare gets killed because she has multiple BiS items. With Sontalak, you're left hoping for a Matchless/Peerless BP and that's about it.
If Tunare dropped the same loot as Sontalak would A/A kill her?
The better hypothetical would be Sontalak with Tunare's loot table. Which would be fucking awesome! But yes, A/A would be all over him like white on rice if so.
maskedmelon
08-22-2016, 06:33 PM
The better hypothetical would be Sontalak with Tunare's loot table. Which would be fucking awesome! But yes, A/A would be all over him like white on rice if so.
Yeah, but then you'd have to explain why he had those items. I mean wtf would sont have a golden braid?? It'd be a lore nightmare.
Daldaen
08-22-2016, 06:36 PM
I still dream of a Vulak Ring Event.
Having to deal with splitting drakes, death adds, multiple flurry drakes, multiple wurms, multiple drakes, swarms of baby drakes, etc. That's what EQ raiding is. Having a whole bunch of different mechanics thrown at you and you need to juggle it all to victory. Not just corner mob, slow, CH, /loot:
I still dream of a Vulak Ring Event.
Having to deal with splitting drakes, death adds, multiple flurry drakes, multiple wurms, multiple drakes, swarms of baby drakes, etc. That's what EQ raiding is. Having a whole bunch of different mechanics thrown at you and you need to juggle it all to victory. Not just corner mob, slow, CH, /loot:
+1
Ravager
08-22-2016, 07:09 PM
I believe we should ban the forward pass, that isn't how football was meant to be played.
This is a good analogy if you're arguing for "classic" football in the same way people here argue for "classic" EverQuest.
Detoxx
08-22-2016, 07:37 PM
AoW is just a numbers game. Throw enough warriors, clerics and rogues at it and it'll die. It's a 0 second CH chain, so if someone messes up you'll have a dead warrior and stabilizing is where the wheels come off. Tunare is another 0 second chain, and her mechanics are a little tougher than AoW.
Lord Vyemm is traditionally very difficult with his knock back, but on this server he's pulled to a safe spot.
Sontalak is definitely the toughest mob right now though. He's way over tuned and if he flips he'll wipe your raid force.
Dont know who you got tanking but Tunare is a 1.5 - 2 second chain easily!
Bristlebaner
08-22-2016, 08:04 PM
Emperor Crush.
Signal
08-22-2016, 08:44 PM
All these answers are wrong fyi. The hardest encounter on this server is Variance. The mobs all pretty much die if they spawn at a reasonable hour. Variance is what people have to fight through just to get a chance to kill the targets.
Holey
08-22-2016, 09:44 PM
KERAFYM. GG I WIN.
azeth
08-23-2016, 10:38 AM
Jaled dars shade is technically the hardest mob actually on p99
Daldaen
08-23-2016, 10:45 AM
Jaled dars shade is technically the hardest mob actually on p99
Key Master holds his own I would think?
Freakish
08-23-2016, 11:40 AM
Sirran the Lunatic would destroy Key Master.
Erati
08-23-2016, 11:41 AM
Key Master DTs, Sirran does not.
Key Master would win hands down.
xKoopa
08-23-2016, 12:21 PM
Would a DT even hurt sirran tho
Idk if his hp is over 32k or not
jarlerop
08-23-2016, 01:41 PM
Most entertaining thread 2016. Thats saying a lot!
Prty sure people have come close to accidently killing Sirran / Key Master when mass suiciding on em to corpse keys? They ain't got much hp.
Legday
08-23-2016, 02:55 PM
Sont requires the most overall coordination and needs to be done with quality over quantity. There is no other mob in the game the matches Sont in either category.
azeth
08-23-2016, 05:44 PM
Can you guys please make Jaled dar's shade fight Sirran the Lunatic in EC?
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