Druid Grouping Tips

[serjordanmormont]

Hey all,

Looking for some pointers on how best to maximize my druid's effectiveness when in a group. I'm pretty consistently grouping four friends and 3/4 of us are pretty new to P99. We're all currently between level 18-20. The group is made up of the following:

Shadow Knight
Cleric
Rogue
Enchanter
Druid (me)

I'm wondering how best to maximize my mana usage and remain a contributing member of the party. I'm never sure if I should be more of an off healer, throw thorns on other members, DoT, Nuke, or some combo of them. Given that OOM tends to come pretty quick at my level, I'd like some input on a better way to help out.

Any help is appreciated!

:cool:

[turbosilk]

I recommend timing your casts between mediate ticks

[HeyNomad]

You've got a lot of the bases covered with that group, so jumping from role to role as needed is basically what you're there for. You should keep enough mana to snare when the SK forgets or doesn't want to (probably just do this anyway--SK snare isn't great early on), heal when the cleric's oom, root adds when the chanter's dead, (eventually) evac when things go really bad, etc. Don't feel like you need to burn your mana any time you have some to spare.

The gap between your healing effectiveness and the cleric's isn't as huge as it will be, so coordinate with the cleric. If you're staying above 80% and he's constantly oom, arrange to heal every 3rd fight or something.

Assuming all of that is taken care of...

Damage shields are some of the most mana-efficient damage you can do. As long as pulls keep coming and heals are covered, keep thorns up.

If you're hunting in an outdoor zone, you can help with pulls using harmony or even become the puller yourself.

If animals are available and your group is open to a learning experience, you could try charming. That's also some very mana-efficient damage. Be sure to keep your pet snared and ask the chanter to tash it before you charm.

Unless fights are lasting a full minute, DoTs probably aren't the best use of your mana. If you've been FM for a while and literally have nothing else to do, maybe, but even then a nuke might be more efficient.

[serjordanmormont]

I recommend timing your casts between mediate ticks

Good plan. I have been doing that, or at least trying, still getting the hang of it.

[serjordanmormont]

You've got a lot of the bases covered with that group, so jumping from role to role as needed is basically what you're there for. You should keep enough mana to snare when the SK forgets (or probably just do this anyway--SK snare isn't great early on), heal when the cleric's oom, root adds when the chanter's dead, (eventually) evac when things go really bad, etc. Don't feel like you need to burn your mana any time you have some to spare.

The gap between your healing effectiveness and the cleric's isn't as huge as it will be, so coordinate with the cleric. If you're staying above 80% and he's constantly oom, arrange to heal every 3rd fight or something.

Assuming all of that is taken care of...

Damage shields are some of the most mana-efficient damage you can do. As long as pulls keep coming and heals are covered, keep thorns up.

If you're hunting in an outdoor zone, you can help with pulls using harmony or even become the puller yourself.

If animals are available and your group is open to a learning experience, you could try charming. That's also some very mana-efficient damage. Be sure to keep your pet snared and ask the chanter to tash it before you charm.

Unless fights are lasting a full minute, DoTs probably aren't the best use of your mana. If you've been FM for a while and literally have nothing else to do, maybe, but even then a nuke might be more efficient.

Mainly we've been in Kurns and have just moved to Highpass then on to Highkeep most likely. The pulls tend to come very quick as our SK favors a fast pace, which I love. He is also the most experienced player of us all so we let him do his thing.

Given your advice, I'm doing a lot of the right things as I tend to off heal and damage shield the tank. Enchanter largely handles the CC but I can help with that when need be. I'll have to work in snare a little more I think and work on not mana dumping so often. Thanks a lot!

[EQBallzz]

I would not waste mana putting thorns on anyone but the tank and only if the tank can hold aggro consistently. Thorns is great if the mobs are hitting the person with the buff but not so great if the mobs are ping ponging around. Since you have a dedicated healer and crack in the group I would focus on dmg and keeping buffs up as well as snaring.

Here is what I do when I have a dedicated healer that isn't me:
-Keep thorns up only on tank (if aggro is consistent..skip this if it isn't).
-No need for HP buff with cleric in group but you could keep STR up on Rogue/SK, SoW up on everyone.
-Throw your DOT up early if mobs aren't dying too quick but skip this if they are.
-Nuke once or twice per mob depending on TTK speed of mobs and/or mana availability. Nuke late in the fight to avoid pulling aggro.
-Snare mobs at 30%-ish health if they are fleeing mobs that could present an issue when they run. Some mobs never flee like undead so don't waste your mana. Other areas like outdoors it may not matter much if they flee a bit.
-Never run yourself completely OOM with nukes/buffs if possible. I always try to keep about 30% mana to spot heal and help out the cleric if things go south or the cleric needs to get back some mana (or later on you need to evac). IMO It's generally better to space out your dmg across all mobs than go nuts on any one mob and drain your mana.
-Use root to help chanter CC adds or when/if chanter dies.
-When not doing any of these things meditate to keep mana up. Also, make sure that chanter is keeping Breeze on you. :p

To facilitate this type of play in an efficient manner I would highly recommend getting a program called GINA. It reads the log file and gives you some buff timer overlays to help keep track of when buffs are fading. This will help a ton..especially with short duration buffs like thorns and will allow you to keep all buffs up 100% of the time and to stagger buffs to be more mana efficient. You also won't have to waste mana buffing yourself with things like STR or thorns just to keep a timer of the buff on someone else. People will love you when you are efficient at keeping their buffs up without having to ask every 5 minutes for SoW or whatever. This is even more true with a class like chanter so get your chanter to use it too for hassle free haste/crack. ;)

Also, since you have a bit of time until you have to specialize (lvl 30) I would pay close attention to what is most beneficial to the group (nukes or healing/utility) and then specialize in that at 30. I think in general alteration is a better spec for Druid because you get the most bang for the buck (healing, buffs, ports) but if you really are consistently acting as DPS for your group and you mostly level with that group it might be worthwhile to spec in Evocation because druid nukes are pretty good but not very mana efficient so getting cheaper nukes (and some dots) could be beneficial for you in that case.

[Sorn]

For 20-ish:

* Preserve 50% mana for heals in case cleric goes OOM, and/or devote heals to enchanter when they draw aggro
* Put thorns and STR on tank and STR on rogue
* keep everyone sowed at all times - doesn't really need to be said, people will remind you incessantly!
* Use cancel magic on things that might be buffed (caster mobs), if they have a damage shield on
* Nuke at least once per mob for added DPS
* Snare anything that flees
* If you have extra mana and there's an animal, charm and deploy for DPS (enchanter will need to watch your back and use stuns when charm breaks so you can recharm)

29
* Congrats, you can now evac your group in bad situations! wtb port

At 34 the buffs begin to change
* thorns, STR, regen

39
* thorns, STR, regen
* Share Wolf Form (bonus ATK)
* pack spirit (group sow, makes it easy)
* Your cleric gets complete healing, preserve 50% mana until they have a good handle on it

44
* For longer fights, DoT. Shorter fights, nuke.
* thorns, STR, chloro, wolf form if they want it (outdoors)
* Preserve 30% of mana for off-heals unless you are in a difficult camp, then preserve 50%, or if it's really difficult, just be off-healer with the occasional DS
* The new nuke, Calefaction, has a fast casting time but long cooldown - use at your discretion
* If you guys are doing Velious, make sure you get these port spells as well as the port tooth required.

49
* New skin buff, which gives +2 hp regen - use this in tandem with the cleric AC and symbol buffs until the cleric gets something better (their last HP buff was at 44)
* At this point the cleric should be able to handle pretty much all healing, especially with the enchanter keeping everyone cracked out. Save some mana to keep the enchanter from dying, but otherwise you won't heal much
* Thorns, STR, Chloro, wolf form (opt), pack spirit
* You can charm if you've got the mana, though charm breaks might be ugly by now because you can get anything up to level 53 and Allure of the Wild has a long cast time

50+
* Similar to 49 but more intense. Note that your group will have to take on much more challenging encounters for your druid to really get a work-out.
* If you've made a habit of charming animals for DPS like a second, relatively inferior enchanter with no stun or clarity, you must upgrade to Call of Karana at 52. Actually, upgrade anyway.
* Circle of Summer and Circle of Winter are good group junk buff spells
* The times Glamour of Tunare is useful may be counted on one hand: Farming anything under lvl 35, and Department of Fun events...
* Once you get the druid fast-cast heal spell, Chloroblast, keep that loaded at all times. It is faster than the majority of the cleric heals and will save your enchanter in a bad charm break. (High level charming is fun! Best clutch heal in my career: Chloroblast landed at 2% hp, enchanter got hit for 100-something a split second later and survived)
* PotG. Best buff. Your cleric needn't bother with their HP buff once you've got this at 60. It's got +6 mana regen, lasts forever, and stacks with enchanter brain buffs. Only drawback is having to wait til 60 to get it. Well, I guess the other drawback is people begging for it when you're in EC...it costs 1200 mana D:

[Danth]

As others have said, you're in the swing role.

The Cleric and Enchanter are the core of the group. They can duo nearly anything you'll group with all five of you. Truth be told the Enchanter can solo most of it by himself. The Shadow Knight and Rogue combine to add damage as well as an element of safety due to aggro control and eventually feign death (SK) or sneak (Rogue) pulling.

The Druid's largest contribution, from 29 onwards (especially 34), is freedom for the entire group to go where it wants, when it wants. Once you can port you never have to feel tied to a specific place. Once you're actually fighting you're fundamentally in a support role, trying to fill in whatever job is most useful at a given time. How much you do will depend to a degree on how motivated you are. To get the most out of the Druid class you have to be ready to switch from damage to crowd control to healing not just from one zone to the next, but from one pull to the next. You can heal if the Cleric is out of mana or AFK or if multiple people are being hit. You have good ability to help out with crowd control if the Enchanter is otherwise occupied. Keep that charm pet snared during charm breaks! You can help with buffs if the Cleric's low, and starting at 34 you'll have regen spells you should keep up all the time. Your direct damage spells are useful as a source of damage, especially if you want to burst down a specific target. Use thorns as you feel appropriate, but thorns lacks synergy with slows so it might not be necessary or particularly useful. You can use charm pets in zones where animals are available; don't neglect these. In outdoor zones, including dungeons like Unrest and Mistmoore and Karnor, you're an excellent puller. A Druid can do most jobs to some degree or another, so be prepared to switch on the fly as needed. Having that backup healer or crowd controller will allow the group to continue functioning even when someone has to go AFK and will consequently reduce people's fatigue over a long session, as well as allowing things to proceed if someone doesn't log on some night. Think of your job as proofing the group against contingencies.

Damage over time spells tend to suck in groups where individual targets die quickly. If you want to do damage you'll usually be better-served by using your direct damage spells.

Danth

[Handull]

For 20-ish:

* Preserve 50% mana for heals in case cleric goes OOM, and/or devote heals to enchanter when they draw aggro
* Put thorns and STR on tank and STR on rogue
* keep everyone sowed at all times - doesn't really need to be said, people will remind you incessantly!
* Use cancel magic on things that might be buffed (caster mobs), if they have a damage shield on
* Nuke at least once per mob for added DPS
* Snare anything that flees
* If you have extra mana and there's an animal, charm and deploy for DPS (enchanter will need to watch your back and use stuns when charm breaks so you can recharm)

29
* Congrats, you can now evac your group in bad situations! wtb port

At 34 the buffs begin to change
* thorns, STR, regen

39
* thorns, STR, regen
* Share Wolf Form (bonus ATK)
* pack spirit (group sow, makes it easy)
* Your cleric gets complete healing, preserve 50% mana until they have a good handle on it

44
* For longer fights, DoT. Shorter fights, nuke.
* thorns, STR, chloro, wolf form if they want it (outdoors)
* Preserve 30% of mana for off-heals unless you are in a difficult camp, then preserve 50%, or if it's really difficult, just be off-healer with the occasional DS
* The new nuke, Calefaction, has a fast casting time but long cooldown - use at your discretion
* If you guys are doing Velious, make sure you get these port spells as well as the port tooth required.

49
* New skin buff, which gives +2 hp regen - use this in tandem with the cleric AC and symbol buffs until the cleric gets something better (their last HP buff was at 44)
* At this point the cleric should be able to handle pretty much all healing, especially with the enchanter keeping everyone cracked out. Save some mana to keep the enchanter from dying, but otherwise you won't heal much
* Thorns, STR, Chloro, wolf form (opt), pack spirit
* You can charm if you've got the mana, though charm breaks might be ugly by now because you can get anything up to level 53 and Allure of the Wild has a long cast time

50+
* Similar to 49 but more intense. Note that your group will have to take on much more challenging encounters for your druid to really get a work-out.
* If you've made a habit of charming animals for DPS like a second, relatively inferior enchanter with no stun or clarity, you must upgrade to Call of Karana at 52. Actually, upgrade anyway.
* Circle of Summer and Circle of Winter are good group junk buff spells
* The times Glamour of Tunare is useful may be counted on one hand: Farming anything under lvl 35, and Department of Fun events...
* Once you get the druid fast-cast heal spell, Chloroblast, keep that loaded at all times. It is faster than the majority of the cleric heals and will save your enchanter in a bad charm break. (High level charming is fun! Best clutch heal in my career: Chloroblast landed at 2% hp, enchanter got hit for 100-something a split second later and survived)
* PotG. Best buff. Your cleric needn't bother with their HP buff once you've got this at 60. It's got +6 mana regen, lasts forever, and stacks with enchanter brain buffs. Only drawback is having to wait til 60 to get it. Well, I guess the other drawback is people begging for it when you're in EC...it costs 1200 mana D:

Lots of good stuff here.

Did you mean Nature Walkers Behest or Tunare's Request instead of Glamour of Tunare? I use Glamour all the time when charming and if fighting a high lvl animal mob for the MR debuff. Tunare's Request is nice when charming a very low level mob, but the usefulness of that is limited. In theory no agro on a break is nice, but the mob can't really hurt you anyway. The summoned pet is less useful, but it's not useless. You can do some pulls with it, or just use it as a mana battery (cast pet, med to full, cast some spells, reclaim pet, boom +600 mana).

It was said earlier, but don't bother giving thorns to anyone but the tank. I never understood the group thorns buffs except that it makes it easy to keep track of when you need to recast. As you level up more, and shamans and enchants start slowing mobs regularly, thorns is probably less useful.

As far as the general role of the druid in the group, you will fill in the gaps as needed. If the group needs off heals, do it. If the group needs a little extra CC, root and snare your way to victory. I usually try to snare everything, especially now that it stacks with root. Don't snare so early as to pull agro, but snare won't break mez, and will help in all situations where a mob is running from low hp or chasing someone in group.

DoTs can be a good way to do damage, depending on the dps of the group. Just don't get into the habit of dotting too soon, since your dot will break mez over and over.

You can also be a pretty effective puller. It can be harder deep in a dungeon when sow has faded, but you can easily pull in a zone like solB. 2-3 mobs in the pull? Start one with snare, so it comes in much later, etc. In an outdoor zone you can harmony to help pull, and can be great even in a raid level zone like PoFear.

[HeyNomad]

* The times Glamour of Tunare is useful may be counted on one hand: Farming anything under lvl 35, and Department of Fun events...


Small correction to this great overview. I think Sorn was (correctly, IMO) actually describing Tunare's Request (http://wiki.project1999.com/Tunare%27s_Request). Glamour of Tunare (http://wiki.project1999.com/Glamour_of_Tunare), the animal-only MR debuff, is hugely useful for charming. But the enchanter's tash will always be better, so if you're going to charm with a chanter in group, get that if you can.

[Sorn]

Yeah, I got the two mixed up! And of course I couldn't edit -_-

Nature Walkers Behest is pretty useless, too :)

[Amyas]

Hey all,

Looking for some pointers on how best to maximize my druid's effectiveness when in a group. I'm pretty consistently grouping four friends and 3/4 of us are pretty new to P99. We're all currently between level 18-20. The group is made up of the following:

Shadow Knight
Cleric
Rogue
Enchanter
Druid (me)

I'm wondering how best to maximize my mana usage and remain a contributing member of the party. I'm never sure if I should be more of an off healer, throw thorns on other members, DoT, Nuke, or some combo of them. Given that OOM tends to come pretty quick at my level, I'd like some input on a better way to help out.

Any help is appreciated!

:cool:

Always keep thorns and regen on your tank, snare mobs, nuke low hp mobs to finish them off, and if fights are lasting along time use dots.

[Expediency]

A lot of people have given good advice already. Casting a DoT that only hits for 2-3 ticks before the mob dies is a huge waste of mana. Charm a pet if something is around to charm, use nukes instead of DoTs if you have mana and want to do damage, thorn the tanks, sow everybody, and make a macro that says GATHER TO ME BECAUSE WE'RE EVACING or something similar and port your group out if you have trouble.

Based on your group makeup, you are the best puller outside and possibly inside also. Wolf is faster than sow and you have snare/harmony/root. Using root or snare to pull helps break up groups of mobs if you are pulling 3-4. You should be keeping an eye on the chanter and cleric and heal them if they take any damage. The druid "anti-summon" spells are useful vs summoned creatures, if you're fighting them make sure to use those.