Shaman iksar vs ogre

[Ashengate]

How big of a nerf is choosing iksar over ogres for solo and end game play? I absolutely hate ogre models and would rather play a iksar for personal preference, but I am unsure how bad of a choice that is.

[damstraight4]

just play iksar then

[Trollhide]

The answer to "what race is best for _____ class" is always the race you think looks the coolest

[Nixtar]

Solo: Front stun immunity for ogres is good and their high melee stats makes it easier starting out. On the other hand regen is good for canni and therefor rot rotting. The iksar AC bonus is nice to since it helps mitigate some damage and at end game you will always have more AC than a troll or ogre. Not that it helps much during raids but in groups and when you're farming stuff it is useful. As an iksar you won't have access to the JBB but its usefulness drastically diminishes as you go past 50. You epic is the real game changer.

End game, I rather be troll or iksar due to regen.

Bottom line, shaman is an amazing class you can't really go wrong with... Though I'm sure someone will throw a spreadsheet in my face explaining why JBB is 0.04% more effective at X mob and therefor I am a f***ing scrub shitter with autism.

[Ashengate]

That's what my thoughts were nixtar overlooking al the information I had seen. It's just my first character on p99 and I haven't even played eq in 4 years so trying to get a decent build for this log journey I rolled a iksar shaman last night I'm a whooping lv 4 now lol.

[Beckoning]

Solo: Front stun immunity for ogres is good and their high melee stats makes it easier starting out. On the other hand regen is good for canni and therefor rot rotting. The iksar AC bonus is nice to since it helps mitigate some damage and at end game you will always have more AC than a troll or ogre. Not that it helps much during raids but in groups and when you're farming stuff it is useful. As an iksar you won't have access to the JBB but its usefulness drastically diminishes as you go past 50. You epic is the real game changer.

End game, I rather be troll or iksar due to regen.

Bottom line, shaman is an amazing class you can't really go wrong with... Though I'm sure someone will throw a spreadsheet in my face explaining why JBB is 0.04% more effective at X mob and therefor I am a f***ing scrub shitter with autism.

LOL

[jolanar]

+1 for just play whatever looks the best to you.

[Doctor Jeff]

Always choose the race that you think looks coolest. You're going to be staring at your character for hundreds of hours and if you don't like how it looks, you won't have a good time.

Any stats or bonuses will become negligible at the high end.

[Ando]

Is this actually Colgate or some impostor troll? It is difficult to tell because of how annoying he is.

[Nirgon]

anyone going to go into detail here about why not being able to jbb down WW dragons means you suck

[Yuuvy The Destroyer]

incorrect

No, he is right.

[skottomania]

JBB?

[Ashengate]

http://wiki.project1999.com/Jaundiced_Bone_Bracer

[Danth]

anyone going to go into detail here about why not being able to jbb down WW dragons means you suck

Good question since Shamans who don't have a Jaundiced Bone Bracer can solo the same dragons anyway. It would hurt a bit for solo leveling but that's a relatively minor inconvenience in the long run.

Danth

[Kelor]

They say ogre is best once you get torpor at 60, but thats a long road ahead.

[Trollhide]

Regen means practically nothing w/ torpor.

Play what you want, but realize that being able to shrug off that first bash/kick on an incoming mob is huge.
Protip: ogres still get casting interrupted by that first bash/kick

[Froakula]

Shoulda rolled troll master shaman race.

[Yuuvy The Destroyer]

Regen means practically nothing w/ torpor.

Play what you want, but realize that being able to shrug off that first bash/kick on an incoming mob is huge.

Regen is still significant after torpor. If it were not you would never see a 60 shaman wearing a fungi.

As for jbb, it is still handy even after acquiring epic. Good for finishing a mob at low health faster than waiting for epic dot to tick. Not something you absolutely must have but rather another tool in the arsenal that makes a shaman more versatile.

[Nirgon]

Good question since Shamans who don't have a Jaundiced Bone Bracer can solo the same dragons anyway. It would hurt a bit for solo leveling but that's a relatively minor inconvenience in the long run.

Danth

know whats good on solo'ing dragons?

the goddamn stone of morid in your range slot

tell u what

[vouss]

Who solos dragons after the first neck ..

[BarackObooma]

Troll = regen, snare necklace, jbb

Super ugly but the only one that can can have these three things.

[Raev]

Based on my experience with Svenn and Orruar, I'm pretty sure that the best Shaman racial trait is Puppet Strings.

[icedwards]

Based on my experience with Svenn and Orruar, I'm pretty sure that the best Shaman racial trait is Puppet Strings.

Without a doubt.

Hard to go wrong with any racial choice to be honest. Plenty of grandmasters in the solo challenge thread that went barbarian.

[digitz80]

My two cents....



Barbarian
+Barbarian Spiritist Hammer twink weapon
+JBB
+Most think they look better. Hot females :)
+Medium sized


Ogre
+Great overall stats
+Frontal stun immune (though spells still get interrupted)
+JBB
-Fatty


Troll
+Snare Clicky. Situational, but only shaman with snare ability.
+Regeneration
+JBB
-Fire resist penalty (minor, but there)
-Fatty


Iksar
+Medium sized
+Good Wis
+Regeneration
+Stone of Morid for fire/cold resist
+AC Bonus? Unsure how much this helps though.
-No Jbb



In the end, geared and fully spelled, race isn't a big deal.

Regen doesn't matter much with topor ticking away at 300 a tic, but still always helps to some extent. Very nice if not twinked with a fungi and/or not a 60 torpor shaman yet.

JBB's usefulness fades away after lower 50's, but is still a very nice item.

Front stun immunity is great, but not as big a deal as some make it out to be. Stuns still interrupt your spells, they just don't lock you for two seconds.

Troll snare clicky gives you the option to snare. It's usually not practical given it's long cast time and weak snare, but if you must to prevent something from running, it's there.

[fash]

Front stun immunity is great, but not as big a deal as some make it out to be. Stuns still interrupt your spells, they just don't lock you for two seconds.

Eh, how do frontal stuns still interrupt your spells if you're immune to them? You still have to channel the spell, yea, sure. That's always true. But you aren't insta-interrupted, correct? If so, that seems significant.

[digitz80]

Yes is insta interrupts you, even though you don't get 'stunned'.

But keep in mind not every kick/bash stuns you to begin with, it's just a chance to do so. So even if not an ogre, you can be bashed and not get stunned sometimes. If you ARE an ogre, and that bash succeeds its stun roll, then you don't actually get stunned, but the spell is still interrupted as though you had been.

Still useful, especially when facing a horde of unslowed mobs, but not a godly must have ability imo. A slowed mob bashed like once every 20+ seconds. That bash can miss. if it hits, it still may not stun. If it does stun, and your an ogre, it still does a spell interrupt, but no 2 second stun where you can't move or do anything.

[pugnacious]

My two cents....



Barbarian
+Barbarian Spiritist Hammer twink weapon
+JBB
+Most think they look better. Hot females :)
+Medium sized


Ogre
+Great overall stats
+Frontal stun immune (though spells still get interrupted)
+JBB
-Fatty


Troll
+Snare Clicky. Situational, but only shaman with snare ability.
+Regeneration
+JBB
-Fire resist penalty (minor, but there)
-Fatty


Iksar
+Medium sized
+Good Wis
+Regeneration
+Stone of Morid for fire/cold resist
+AC Bonus? Unsure how much this helps though.
-No Jbb



In the end, geared and fully spelled, race isn't a big deal.

Regen doesn't matter much with topor ticking away at 300 a tic, but still always helps to some extent. Very nice if not twinked with a fungi and/or not a 60 torpor shaman yet.

JBB's usefulness fades away after lower 50's, but is still a very nice item.

Front stun immunity is great, but not as big a deal as some make it out to be. Stuns still interrupt your spells, they just don't lock you for two seconds.

Troll snare clicky gives you the option to snare. It's usually not practical given it's long cast time and weak snare, but if you must to prevent something from running, it's there.

Snaring so mobs don't run is HUGE. Regen is extremely underrated as my regen on my shaman has probably healed me hundreds and hundreds of thousands of hitpoints more than any shaman without regen. I even wear a fungi on my troll torp sham all the time because the regen is amazing. Free heals = more mana = higher health = less dying.

How many times I have been to 50 HP while soloing on my troll would have been death on any race that doesnt have regen.

Frontal stun immunity is cool but its not frontal spell interruption immunity. I think a lot of people misunderstand that.

For me troll is the best. I have a hard time why anyone would do anything different.

[Raev]

My view is that Shaman are more time limited than mana limited. A good shaman is ALWAYS doing something: canni/torpor cycle, epic dot/jbb, casting other spells, whatever. Any time you get bashed and stunned, you lose time. In the worst case, up to 10 seconds if you are interrupted right at the end of an epic cast. Also, you can only have one torpor active on yourself at once. If you are fighting a really tough NPC where you barely have enough HP regeneration to stay alive, the JBB is something to do.

So, I think a case can be made for Ogre, Troll, and Iksar. The only race that is clearly inferior is the Barbarian. Which happens to include many of the best players on the server, so <shrug>

[Nixtar]

So, I think a case can be made for Ogre, Troll, and Iksar. The only race that is clearly inferior is the Barbarian. Which happens to include many of the best players on the server, so <shrug>

Good player > racial traits. Racial traits and their impact is exaggerated to say the least. The exception, perhaps, is iksar necromancer given how much regen mitigates lich at higher levels. That said, even that advantage can be worked around simply by not falling asleep at the keyboard... :D

[fash]

Iksar
+Stone of Morid for fire/cold resist


Should list Ogre Butcher Gloves for troll/ogre and Imbued Granite Spauldors for barbarian if you're going to list Stone of Morid.

[digitz80]

On the ogre stun thing.. If a mob bashes you, that bash hits, and that bash succeeds in it's stun or no stun check, it will interrupt you. Ogre or no ogre. It will not STUN you if you are ogre and it's from the front, but if the bash lands and would have stunned, it will still stop a spell in progress.

Remember, not every bash that lands necessarily stuns, it's some % chance.

[Lojik]

On the ogre stun thing.. If a mob bashes you, that bash hits, and that bash succeeds in it's stun or no stun check, it will interrupt you. Ogre or no ogre. It will not STUN you if you are ogre and it's from the front, but if the bash lands and would have stunned, it will still stop a spell in progress.

Remember, not every bash that lands necessarily stuns, it's some % chance.

If you're not an Ogre I'm pretty sure a bash landing is 100% stun, it's just that sometimes the stun is 0.0 seconds (like ykesha proc.)

As a 60 Shaman a lot of stuns don't come from bashes, but from channeling interruptions. If you can corner cast it mitigates it, but you still have to come through the channeling check even if you don't move. Sub level 55 mobs don't have a stun component to their kicks (I'm pretty sure,) but 55+ mobs that kick and bash have a much higher chance of stunning and it's these that ogres have a mild advantage over other races.

Shaman has 0 bad race choices. Iksar is great, stone of morid is great range item, +ac/regen is awesome, and they can also get fear necks (animal and undead,) which are very useful. With velious they can wear most of the best armor, so that's not a problem anymore. Even if you're not a twink shaman you can level very fast by spam casting (2.0 second cast time) and dotting merbs. Finding undead mobs to level on isn't hard (particularly as an iksar,) and some undead already have movement penalties so not having snare isn't a big deal. Iksar also don't have to worry about being big, cause sometimes having to cast shrink or use a pot is annoying.

[Jimjam]

Barbs can't use butcher gloves, can they? I thought they were fats only.

[Kelor]

Do spells still get interrupted if your ogre on bashes? or is it just pushback?