I wonder if I made a mistake rolling my ENC

[Puskara]

When starting on P99 I tried to do my homework since I wanted to play something entirely new. I rolled a Erudite ENC and followed the advice of Loraen's Enchanter Guide (http://wiki.project1999.com/Loraen's_Enchanter_Guide) regarding stat point distribution (Thus 25 into CHA & 5 into AGI).

I recently hit 21 and decided to start practicing charming and the first evening was a real bear. I was with my regular partner (19 Cleric) and we spent most of the time with our mana bars low and with my health bar swinging pretty wildly. Its not even that charm breaks too often it is just that between keeping charm up, debuffing mobs, and keeping our little party buffed I was chronically low on mana.

I read stories of people charming blues and chain killing whites and yellows and this seems to defy all possibility. Mind you we were in Najena and as such could not necessarily choose which mobs we would be engaging like we would if we were outside in a wide open area.

I know there has been loads of debate regarding CHA and its usefulness. I am wondering if I am overreacting or if I should have put some/all of those 25 CHA points into INT. I'm not keen on the idea of re-rolling but I am also not thrilled by the idea of struggling because I made an error in character creation. Thoughts?

[Trollhide]

After starting 25 int/5 cha, I rerolled my lvl 9 dark elf enchanter to go 25 cha/5 int. Not only do erudites have the highest base int, it's also pretty easy to come by on caster gear. You did the right thing bud, stick with it. You will also have much better mana regen later on in life.

[isoka]

You did the right choice. At your level, your mana regen isn't that great. It gets better with clarity and then clarity 2 as well as with Theft of thought spells.

[DMN]

Your int has zero effect on how as you actually regain mana. In fact, it will make it seem like you are regaining mana more slowly due to having a larger mana pool. Investing in int isn't worth it as an erudite.

EQ is a grind, and the whole cleric/enchanter combo is a very high level combo. Necro/ench is waaaaaay more efficient and faster exp until you are level capped. Cleric is safer but not nearly as efficient.

[Troxx]

Charming also gets considerably easier the higher you go in levels. A dark blue con at level 20 is a lot closer to your players level than a dark blue con at 50/54/59 etc. Your level in relation to what you're charming is one of the most important factors.

At low levels everyone suffers for mana. Faster meditation, better clarity line spells, and theft of thought will ease things as you get up there in levels.

For what it's worth, as an erudite you did very well in putting all those points into charisma. High elf is the generally agree'd on min/max given the balance of charisma/intelligence, but erudites are a fine choice and perfectly capable. When charming just remember to try and crank your upbuffed charisma up to 200 or more (not hard as charisma gear is cheap).

[Raev]

Its not even that charm breaks too often it is just that between keeping charm up, debuffing mobs, and keeping our little party buffed I was chronically low on mana . . . I read stories of people charming blues and chain killing whites and yellows and this seems to defy all possibility.

Reading between the lines I suspect you are doing it wrong. Basically enchanters have two ways to use charm: you can either charm two NPCs against each other and kill them both when they get low on health, or you can attempt to keep one NPC healed and have it repeatedly slay your enemies. The first works much, much better at low level.

At L60, you can charm a L50 pet with 10K HP and keep it up with Complete Healing (25:1 HP/mana). At L20, you can charm a L15 pet with 500 HP and keep it up with Healing (2:1 HP/mana).
At L60, you can charm a L50 pet that DWs 75% or the time or so and haste it ~100% (tola robe+WR; I'm not sure if NPCs are subject to PC level-based haste caps) for a total of +250% damage. At L20, you can charm a L15 pet that DWs 25% of the time and haste it 40% for a total of +75% damage.
At L60, you get ~55 mana/tick (20 TOT + 20 med + 15 C2/GOB). At L20, you get ~12 mana/tick (2 breeze, 10 med). And you are casting *basically the same spells*: L20 stun, L4 mez, L24 slow, L4 root, etc.

[Tecmos Deception]

When starting on P99 I tried to do my homework since I wanted to play something entirely new. I rolled a Erudite ENC and followed the advice of Loraen's Enchanter Guide (http://wiki.project1999.com/Loraen's_Enchanter_Guide) regarding stat point distribution (Thus 25 into CHA & 5 into AGI).

I recently hit 21 and decided to start practicing charming and the first evening was a real bear. I was with my regular partner (19 Cleric) and we spent most of the time with our mana bars low and with my health bar swinging pretty wildly. Its not even that charm breaks too often it is just that between keeping charm up, debuffing mobs, and keeping our little party buffed I was chronically low on mana.

I read stories of people charming blues and chain killing whites and yellows and this seems to defy all possibility. Mind you we were in Najena and as such could not necessarily choose which mobs we would be engaging like we would if we were outside in a wide open area.

I know there has been loads of debate regarding CHA and its usefulness. I am wondering if I am overreacting or if I should have put some/all of those 25 CHA points into INT. I'm not keen on the idea of re-rolling but I am also not thrilled by the idea of struggling because I made an error in character creation. Thoughts?

Basically all chanter charming before 40 works best when you are VERY particular about the level of the stuff you're fighting. Even with tash, stuff that's level 20 is going to be quite annoying to XP on when you're level 21. But at 23, it'll probably be a cakewalk.

And like has been said, trying to keep a single pet healed and buffed and using it to kill stuff is going to be hard on mana and slow XP compared to using 2-3 mobs at a time, rooted, to beat each other down, recharming if needed, and finishing off stuff with a nuke after you break charm when they are low on HP. Communicate with your cleric partner so you can time stuns, roots, nukes so you aren't both casting the same spell and wasting time and mana.

I'm kicking myself for not doing videos sooner, cause I spent most of 20-30 in Najena (albeit solo, not duo) back near Najena killing goblins, spiders, and skeletons, and you could have seen how I was making it work back there. It has been my favorite XP spot so far with my new chanter :)

[Ivory]

When people give class advice ...a lot of times they are just talking about the level 60 game and ideal situations / farming / raiding.

For some reason, level 60's forget there is an entire game before then :| Probably because so many of them haven't actually played EQ outside of their mega twinks for so long. So when they do roll a new character, they are basically godly and grind up to 60 easily.

[Tecmos Deception]

When people give class advice ...a lot of times they are just talking about the level 60 game and ideal situations / farming / raiding.

For some reason, level 60's forget there is an entire game before then :| Probably because so many of them haven't actually played EQ outside of their mega twinks for so long. So when they do roll a new character, they are basically godly and grind up to 60 easily.

What are you carrying on about? All the advice in this thread was perfectly on point.

[nostalgiaquest]

Tecmos is totally right about being particular in what level stuff you charm.

My chanter is only level 18, and it's my first character on p99 so my gear is shit. I've been charm soloing since I got the spell – still a total noob at it, but as I learn more going forward it has become more and more enjoyable.

An example of level difference -I went to the sisters camp in lfay at level 12 and they were high blue/white, and I got my ass handed to me. Charms breaking, resists, roots failing, you name it. Went back at level 14, and using the same spells and tactics, it was a cakewalk. I didn't even bother tashing.

Been the same principle in oasis killing crocs. I'd rather take on two low blue crocodiles than two high blue/white deepwaters. It's wayyyyy more mana efficient and therefore faster in the long run. Charm rarely breaks, and all that's needed is a few roots, and I use choke to finish em off since it doesn't matter if they run and I can cast it on the not charmed mob prior to breaking my pets charm.

I also don't bother with buffing/debuffing my pet or the mob. At this level it's just not worth hasting or slowing in my opinion. huge mana drain. But that's solo, not duo, and wanting both mobs to die at the same time.

I've haven't done the duo with a cleric yet, but I would assume the principles would apply. The difference is wanting to keep the pet for multiple fights. Doesn't seem like you're high enough level yet for that to truly be effective though, since your summoned pet probably isn't much worse than a charmed mob. I still wouldn't bother debuffing the mob youre fighting though yet. If the cleric can heal your pet, let it take the hits. I would guess it's more mana efficient for the cleric to toss an extra heal here and there than it is for you to debuff each. Charming is all about mana efficiency, so if you really don’t need to cast it, dont.

Also, trade someone breeze for sow, having sow makes it all that much easier. Keep a good distance between you and the charmed mob, and have it sit away from you between pulls so that if it breaks you have room to recharm.

My 2 copper for what it’s worth.

[fugazi]

As a 21 ench / 19 cleric duo you could go to EK. Anything near the Gorge should be low blue so 1) charm will stick and 2) once it is low, it is easy to break and finish off. If you're feeling a bit more daring, you can go to Runnyeye and xp on the second floor where all the goblins will a solid blue and the zone's ZEM will help you out. The loot sort of sucks, you need to learn the spawn spots and roamers, but it is worth it as Runnyeye can carry you up to 25 in no time.

[Puskara]

Thanks for all the advice folks! I feel a bit better about things. I'll have to get some more practice and try so more stuff. I am really curios, how are folks breaking charm? My ENC is my highest character, I can't afford a Goblin Ring by a long shot so I don't know any way to control a charm break. I'd appreciate any advice!

Thank again for all the context and instruction! I actually haven't played since I posted but I think I will return!

[debuilder]

Thanks for all the advice folks! I feel a bit better about things. I'll have to get some more practice and try so more stuff. I am really curios, how are folks breaking charm? My ENC is my highest character, I can't afford a Goblin Ring by a long shot so I don't know any way to control a charm break. I'd appreciate any advice!

Thank again for all the context and instruction! I actually haven't played since I posted but I think I will return!

Invis yourself and stun/mez all the mobs. if you have enough space, you don't even have to stun them.

[nostalgiaquest]

I never use invis to break charm. you lose targeting of the mobs and I screw it up all the time and end up invising my pet and stuff. Use taper enchantment. Cast it on your pet and it will dispel the charm, and then you've already got the expet targeted for a root or nuke. And it costs almost no mana. Sometimes it doesn't work, but that's maybe 1 out of 10 so its almost foolproof.

[Tecmos Deception]

Taper isn't THAT foolproof because it won't work as reliably against higher-level charm spells or against NPCs thst have buffs.

Assign a hotkey to "switch between last two targets" in your hotkey options and use that to invis yourself and still be able to switch back to your pet immediately to root/mez/nuke it.

Watch my videos if you care to. You'll see me hitting f1 to swap targets between myself and pet at the end of a pets lifespan so I am use my ~ key to swap between the two of us to break charm and reacquire target on pet quickly.


As for invising your pet? Lol. If you don't notice you are about to invis your pet instead to yourself, then using taper you'd also be as likely to dispel yourself as your pet.

[nostalgiaquest]

lol yeah, I'm a total newb still and I really need to hotkey that switch between targets. I've found tapering easier because it doesn't involve targeting yourself at all. I have my UI setup so the pet's and mobs life bars are right next to each other. So at 15% or so, reroot mob, target pet, try hide first since I'm a DE, if that fails taper, root/nuke. Little target changing required. I haven't had too much of an issue with buffed mobs messing that plan up yet, but I'm only lvl 25, so I assume that get's more messy later.

Invising a pet makes for a fun end to charm kill though. I like to spice it up a bit =P.

[Baler]

Charm oriented enchanters want a minimum of 200-205 CHA (with gear) So that they can be buffed up to 255 max.

You can find int and mana gear after that. Nothing wrong with your choice. Level up and don't worry about it. You have clarity use that to help ur mana.

[Kotopes]

I went 25 CHA and 5 STR on my erudite to help carry loot, but honestly I don't think these last 5 points matter at any level.