Solo Rogue?

[Ivory]

So....I've been considering making an untwinked alt....and I really like a challenge....

What are peoples thoughts on a soloing rogue (solo since grouping at lower levels is boring...most people crazy twink their alts and just steamroll content. It becomes more about semi-afk grinding than about actual adventure and getting loot and stuff).

I was looking at rogue poisons and they don't seem that expensive! I could see a rogue being able to fear kite maybe? Or just straight fighting....and trying to kill it before it kills you (mastering front backstabbing?).

[JackFlash]

I like it. Paper tiger! Rogue may not be the best choice for a non-twink though.

[Bummey]

Not gonna happen. You'd need heavy twinking to solo past the first 10 levels. Rogues are comically pitiful from the front, solo.

Poisons are only for eeking out that last 5% damage potential in the end game, and super expensive to craft and skill up. I did it back when I was a hardcore poopsock; never again, it's just not worth it.

[Cecily]

Like I told you while were grouped, root poison (think teir II is vendor bought) + Warlords Rage (extremely high triv but easy to farm)... if those stack in different debuff slots they'd be an very powerful combo (670 damage in 30 sec). Something I've been meaning test forever.

Soloing with poison is probably possible, but it's gonna be expensive and gimmicky.

[Izmael]

Even just attaining level 10 without twinking on a rogue solo would be quite a challenge already. And would probably take many days.

[Tecmos Deception]

Not gonna happen.

Even with twinking so that you have proccing weapons and poisons and clicky CC items and reasonable gear, and having a knack for landing backstabs while solo, it'll still be absolutely brutal. Getting hit at all is going to mean tons of downtime to bandage. Even a FULL twink with a fungi and back when you could use ragebringer from 1 wasn't exactly great solo. I didn't go ALL out with clicky CC and working hard to finesse snare+fear procs and poisons... I mostly just let my gear brute-force through stuff while sometimes landing a strafe->backstab... but I still can't imagine anything would make it work untwinked.

[Cecily]

I've soloed to 10, usually 15 on every character I've made in EQ. The vast majority of them rogues. But as far as untwinked.. you missed the fear kiting boat when it was WAY better on p99 than it ever was on live. Intimidate is unreliable at best and that's how it's supposed to be. The problem with rogue soloing is that's it's not about whether or not you can kill a mob in EQ. It's about killing the next mob and the mob after that. Rogues can kill 1 dark blue, with some luck, and have a long down time period after that.

[Cecily]

Even a FULL twink with a fungi and back when you could use ragebringer from 1 wasn't exactly great solo.

SoW pots, Ragebringer / Seb Dirk, Fungi and a nice bow back when intimidate was instant cast was some of the most efficient, fun soloing I've ever done 1-52 here.

[patrick210]

I soloed to about 40-45 on my rogue with just a RBB / Fungi / Ragebringer, but I guess back then Intimidation was a lil different and you could click it from sneak until it landed, and could juggle 2-3 mobs intimidating. Not twinking a rogue and soloing would be a pain tho. just duo snare/ fear kite :D

[Izmael]

Bottom line is... if you want to solo untwinked, make a caster ;)

[Cecily]

Think Rosen did pretty well with ranger. For rogues... the mechanics are just bad. If you could 100% solo a twink rogue to 60, that'd be a hell of an accomplishment.
I mean they can use bows, lol. I use archery way more than throwing on mine.

[Ivory]

Already level 3 and made myself a full set of patchwork armor. I dunno what all the big fuss is about -flex-

[Cecily]

Shoot up some cats in WL if you want me to try to make you Haze Panther stuff.

[Ivory]

Shoot up some cats in WL if you want me to try to make you Haze Panther stuff.

That would be twinking!

[Cecily]

Yeah, but just a little stat gear to take the edge off. Everyone's doing it. *peer pressure*

http://i.imgur.com/FXKVSki.png

[beel]

http://wiki.project1999.com/Embalmers_Skinning_Knife

[Erati]

its not twinking if your rogue "happens to find" some nice rogue gear on the ground in front of them

[JackFlash]

^^

[Gumbo]

I'll make a Rogue untwinked if I happen to find a complete set of Ravenscale in front of me...

[Cecily]

Ravager passed me a whole set when I was level 14.

[fuark]

I have to second everyone's thoughts. The only way rogues don't have (too awful) downtime is using a Mrylokar's BP for the clicky effect. You can get pretty good at landing solo backstabs, but it's not going to work every time.

Intimidate soloing was amazing before they fixed it, but it's more or less like live now.

Tons of respect if you try though!

(at least take cecily up on that haze panther offer aye?!)

[RDawg816]

If I were to solo an untwinked rogue, I would make a barbarian. It's a rough start, but once you get to Blackburrow things will pick up. Even green gnolls drop fangs, and there are the quests over there to help with money. Once you get to 10, put all your points into backstab and make sure to start the fight with that. Depending on the mob, if it misses I'd run to zone and try again.
It wouldn't be easy, but it would be doable and challenging. You just have to be smart. Fight single mobs...land the first blow...then you should have enough of a head start to get them to run away.
Far more challenging and down time than a ranger for sure. I think Ivory can make it work. :)

[Bummey]

Oh, Ivory, you sneaksy little scamp.

[Varren]

I got my rogue to 51 on red untwinked with crap gear and mostly solo. Got so i could land maybe 1/2 of my backstabs. Instill doubt doesn't seem less reliable, just less convenient without the instant cast.

But roll dwarf for barrel roll.

[Samoht]

Instill doubt doesn't seem less reliable, just less convenient without the instant cast.

Yeah, it's still more powerful than it should be. Getting closer, though.

You could get to upper 40s with just a fungi. When I did it, you could equip an epic, though, so you'd need to also twink a haste item too, minimum. Wear +HP gear on every other slot.

I did the cliffs in FV and yeti caves in DL for like 10 levels. You still have to be extremely careful about pathing and overpulls and pulling things that con too high.

I ran to FV city and BW zone line a lot during this process.

[Ivory]

I'm almost 14 now...and since getting backstab at 10...I've almost mastered the art of front-backstabbing :3 I can do it 60-70 percent of the time now...and slowly getting better at the timing.

Combined with combat bandaging, I can kill blues non-stop while healing during the fight.

[Cecily]

Front stabs are a unique to P99.. feature which shouldn't be possible, mobs should always shift direction to face you immediately unless casting. Combat bandaging strikes me as an exploit.

[Ivory]

Front stabs are a unique to P99.. feature which shouldn't be possible, mobs should always shift direction to face you immediately unless casting. Combat bandaging strikes me as an exploit.

They do shift direction immediately....but there is a very very slight delay :3

And combat bandaging was classic. No more an exploit than recharging items with merchants or fear kiting or looking through walls as a gnome....just part of the game at this point :D

[Varren]

should

What do you mean by that?

[Cecily]

Mobs here stop auto facing your position for about a quarter second after attacking. That's enough to circle strafe a backstab.

[Ivory]

Mobs here stop auto facing your position for about a quarter second after attacking. That's enough to circle strafe a backstab.

Visually they are slower than what the server is reading. The window seems a lot shorter than 1/4th a second.

When I was practicing on small mobs, I killed a lot of things as they were facing away from me....but had no backstabs :<

But yea, small window is enough to make it possible at least :D

[syztem]

just need the side barely, not even the back. but yeah when they go to swing they stay stuck for a second facing that spot.

[Bummey]

Front stabs are a unique to P99.. feature which shouldn't be possible, mobs should always shift direction to face you immediately unless casting. Combat bandaging strikes me as an exploit.

Naw, I remember being able to fudge the mob facing back in the day to backstab from the "front." It was pretty unreliable and depended heavily on lag and other factors beyond skill.

Mobs here stop auto facing your position for about a quarter second after attacking. That's enough to circle strafe a backstab.

That's not what I'm talking about. While facing the mob, run straight into and through them to cause them to spin around and hit your back, at which point you move straight back and backstab the second you cross over their model. It's super finnicky, but you can get backstabs in while the mob is turned around. You lose a lot of auto attack dps this way, which makes missed or minimum/low damage backstabs not really worth the loss of dps or extra hits you take, and it doesn't work well on rogue mobs for obvious reasons.

[Cecily]

Yeah latency stabs, for lack of a better name don't really seem to work on P99. That's how rogues used to joust on PvP servers too, stabbing right as you ran through.

[Holey]

the best was on red disc backstabbing frontal