TMO recap

[VZ_Xanit K'ven]

For those of us who were out of the Loop

why did TMO never got a toe hold on red?

Now with all the RMT opportunity talk I got curious

When News broke they would all Transfer from blue, rumor had it they would be the hardest poopsockers Norrath had ever seen

Rule lawyering, unburn-outable, unboreable Pixel Zombies who would establish themselves over the Long run


how / why did they fail?

[Uuruk]

Staff also gave them a special one time deal to transfer off of red after it was banned.

[Videri]

In my opinion, a big part of it was the TMO leadership's choice not to listen to input from Red veterans. They played in a sort of passive way, letting members chain-die, not really preparing for PvP or trying to learn about it.

People often refer to a Teamspeak conversation in which Darkdeath refused to carry pumice, claiming he would simply cast Cancel Magic or Nullify Magic. And they wouldn't try to keep their raids low-profile, gather up in secret, move as a single unit. This kind of willful ignorance and refusal to learn how to PvP is ultimately what destroyed TMO Red. I believe if they had taken advice from the vets they had tagged, like Rag and Tune, they might have lasted.

The other thing was getting repeatedly wiped by <Friends> and <Empire>. (Full disclosure, I helped kill them.)

[georgie]

Outside of all the officers rmting their red items, not really sure

[heartbrand]

TMO suffered for the same reason tempest and every other guild that has failed suffers. Failure to get over petty box grudges. TMO tried to have an elitist officer core from blue without being inclusive of red players and ended up finding out the hard way that you can't be an elitist on a 90 pop box. Empire and Nihilum were successful because they tagged everyone with a pulse aka zerg, and had strong active leadership. TMO had neither.

[AzzarTheGod]

TMO suffered for the same reason tempest and every other guild that has failed suffers. Failure to get over petty box grudges. TMO tried to have an elitist officer core from blue without being inclusive of red players and ended up finding out the hard way that you can't be an elitist on a 90 pop box. Empire and Nihilum were successful because they tagged everyone with a pulse aka zerg, and had strong active leadership. TMO had neither.

Good post

[Cecily]

In my opinion, a big part of it was the TMO leadership's choice not to listen to input from Red veterans. They played in a sort of passive way, letting members chain-die, not really preparing for PvP or trying to learn about it.

People often refer to a Teamspeak conversation in which Darkdeath refused to carry pumice, claiming he would simply cast Cancel Magic or Nullify Magic. And they wouldn't try to keep their raids low-profile, gather up in secret, move as a single unit. This kind of willful ignorance and refusal to learn how to PvP is ultimately what destroyed TMO Red. I believe if they had taken advice from the vets they had tagged, like Rag and Tune, they might have lasted.

The other thing was getting repeatedly wiped by <Friends> and <Empire>. (Full disclosure, I helped kill them.)

TMO failed because they took you guys in. There's really no other reason.

[Xaanka]

edit: trash guild that was just a read for the peepz in the know

[VZ_Xanit K'ven]

did Tiggles quit altogether or just to return to blue?

[Cecily]

did Tiggles quit altogether or just to return to blue?

He quit.

[hurt]

TMO was utterly useless.

Tooti was a fucking boss, though.

[HippoNipple]

On blue you can hit a point to where you don't need more members to down content and it is how efficient/mobile your guild can be. This allows you to be exclusive and beat out your competition by being bigger nerds and poopsocking more.

On Red everyone knows the timers and the team that shows up with more people win. People jump ship in fear that the team they are on is the smaller one so competition is short lived in the slight chance there is competition at all.

The only people left in competing guilds have this illusion that losing every time they log in is an honorable way to play this 17 year old video game because they refuse to play the only way a server with this population and set up will ever be.

You either join the zerg, quit the server, or log in and find something to do besides progressing your character.

[Fael]

Taking on a guild like Empire during a time when its leadership and membership had a high interest level in the box would be hard enough on any server. But it was impossible on a server with only 300 active people.

Half the active population was in Empire. About 1/4 were long-time established crews that would never and could never work together. The other 1/4 comprised 50 randoms (mostly casual) and about 15-20 old school TMO, most of which were not even 60 when velious hit.

TMO might have hit 35 people on day 1 of velious. Red just did not have a population to recruit from.

[Fael]

Also, what Hippo said.

[Xaanka]

so this is the weekly make excuses for tmo thread?

tbqh they alienated their best and most dedicated players with consistently poor decisions. that's coming from the first red player to join tmo, first 60 in tmo, biggest recruiter outside of sickpuppy and #1 attendance player in the guild.

[Fael]

Definitely, if they only listened to you and their other dedicated players, then they would have won the box. Smoke much?

[HippoNipple]

so this is the weekly make excuses for tmo thread?

tbqh they alienated their best and most dedicated players with consistently poor decisions. that's coming from the first red player to join tmo, first 60 in tmo, biggest recruiter outside of sickpuppy and #1 attendance player in the guild.

There has never been a guild on this server to take over the number 1 spot as a raiding guild without the number one guild quitting or being banned. You can argue Holocaust did to Azrael but Azrael pretty much gave up the number 1 spot by not recruiting. Maybe they didn't realize they were going to lose the number 1 spot but that was their only mistake. They could have recruited everyone and Azrael would have been Empire with a more corrupt loot counsel.

The only fair way to rate the number one guilds is by how fair they seem to be to their players. With this server setup they really don't have to be fair at all and there is little that is going to happen to them if they cheat players out of loot. Nihilum/Empire were relatively fair to their casuals compared to what they could have done.

This server is a social casual mmo. If you want to compete and be the best find another game or server.

[Phaezed-Reality]

literally the turning point of TMO on red is when they kicked agatha for spliting the red vets off to go take down targets that where important instead of doing velious content with lvl 52 in rags TMO members.

[Xaanka]

Definitely, if they only listened to you and their other dedicated players, then they would have won the box. Smoke much?

I mean if they would have won the box if they stuck around a little longer and waited for empire to disband. But that's not what I'm talking about.

Like here's an example of how many fucks they gave: I was making half the loot decisions in secret towards the end of the guild because no officers except darkdeath would even bother to show up and the ones who did were too drunk to care. Yes that's right me, Anime, one of the biggest fucktards on the server.

[Xaanka]

like dude they didn't even carry pumice stones

[HippoNipple]

There is always a defining event or catalyst that ends a guilds attempt to take over number 1 but it will always be something. So veterans are tired of helping people in rags level 52-60 that then jump ship and become better geared from the number 1 guild than the veterans in a few weeks? It is inevitable, you can pick out any one event and blame it on that but something was going to cause TMO to break no matter what decisions they made.

[Uuruk]

Also Alarti RMT'd his account to Decibel

[Xaanka]

There is always a defining event or catalyst that ends a guilds attempt to take over number 1 but it will always be something. So veterans are tired of helping people in rags level 52-60 that then jump ship and become better geared from the number 1 guild than the veterans in a few weeks? It is inevitable, you can pick out any one event and blame it on that but something was going to cause TMO to break no matter what decisions they made.

dude it wasn't even that, tmo had a bunch of super dedicated players who didn't give two shits if someone guild hopped. problem was in general, tmo treated these veteran players holding the guild together like shit. bro they put me on a loot diet for almost dying of sudden illness because i couldn't raid from my hospital bed.

i have more room than anyone on this server to shit talk TMO, i attended more raids than any player in TMO and i was swarm kiting them from the day they joined the server.

[HippoNipple]

dude it wasn't even that, tmo had a bunch of super dedicated players who didn't give two shits if someone guild hopped. problem was in general, tmo treated these veteran players holding the guild together like shit. bro they put me on a loot diet for almost dying of sudden illness because i couldn't raid from my hospital bed.

i have more room than anyone on this server to shit talk TMO, i attended more raids than any player in TMO and i was swarm kiting them from the day they joined the server.

It sounds like you are too emotional to have an unbiased opinion on the matter. TMO leadership know how to run a guild and Agatha isn't going to bring them down on his own. People get sick of losing and putting in time with no hope of doing the content they want to do. TMO never would have contended with Empire.

[Xaanka]

It sounds like you are too emotional to have an unbiased opinion on the matter.

You don't know the history of the red guild very well then or something, because I was one of the few vets/factors who stuck it out until the end. It's not debatable that TMO ran all its best players out, it's a fact. By the time Xepiz and I left the guild, sickpuppy was the only factor left, and he untagged like a day or two later. I'm not emotional over it at all, I just feel like at some point it's time for me to say what was really going on because god forbid someone actually believed all the pro-TMO propaganda I was posting back then. Like dude sorry if you had the wool pulled over your eyes but I know what I'm talking about.

Guild. Leader. Did. Not. Carry. Pumices.

[Cecily]

To reiterate my point from blue thread, you killed TMO. It's like having an uninfected colony of monkeys (TMO) breed with a colony of Ebola ridden monkeys (Good Guys). Of course the Center of Disease Control (Empire) didn't like having a new group of possible vectors in the neighborhood, but your guild gave them Ebola, so the CDC obviously had to step in and quarantine the infection. It's science.

[Xaanka]

To reiterate my point from blue thread, you killed TMO. It's like having an uninfected colony of monkeys (TMO) breed with a colony of Ebola ridden monkeys (Good Guys). Of course the Center of Disease Control (Empire) didn't like having a new group of possible vectors in the neighborhood, but your guild gave them Ebola, so the CDC obviously had to step in and quarantine the infection. It's science.

I was never in Good Guys or Azrael, I had nothing to do with them at any point ever on this server and joined well before the merge. I was the first red player who joined TMO. You're talking to someone who ran a leveling guild and played untagged for like half a year because I didn't want anything to do with those fuccbois either, preaching to the choir son I cringed very hard at the GG merge but it isn't what killed the guild.

What killed TMO was leadership incompetence. Every single officer from TMO blue gave up shortly after Velious release, leaving DD to run the ship alone. And the ones who got banned had no excuse, as I offered every single one of them a free full emu/email account level 60 of the class they were playing when they got banned and none of them had gear. Not to talk shit, but DD had too much on his plate in real life to be running a guild single handed, and he also had no idea how to play on red or run a red guild. Not to mention dealing with our teamspeak constantly being fucked with by other guilds on red. He made some really strong moves like merging with Pandemonium, but pissed it all away by making some seriously dumb calls and saying some really dumb shit on teamspeak. He said something really dumb and the entire Pandemonium crew disbanded later that night, he did not ever show his face on red again after that. Even though Xepiz and I were the first to untag from <TMO> neither of us are responsible for killing the guild because it was already dead.

Don't take this as me shit talking DD, he did the best he could do with what he had available to him and it's impressive he didn't burn out sooner. The true failing were all of the TMO blue players and officers who gave up and quit the second adversity hit.

[Cecily]

I was never in Good Guys or Azrael, I had nothing to do with them at any point ever on this server and joined well before the merge. I was the first red player who joined TMO. You're talking to someone who ran a leveling guild and played untagged for like half a year because I didn't want anything to do with those fuccbois either, preaching to the choir son I cringed very hard at the GG merge but it isn't what killed the guild.

Apologizes then. Still, mismanagement aside, provoking Empire into a full on war before they were ready for it by taking in a guild worth of their enemies is a simple enough cause and effect relationship for me. You're more describing the slow decay of an already dead guild that hadn't realized it. Not much fun is it?

[Xaanka]

Apologizes then. Still, mismanagement aside, provoking Empire into a full on war before they were ready for it by taking in a guild worth of their enemies is a simple enough cause and effect relationship for me. You're more describing the slow decay of an already dead guild that hadn't realized it. Not much fun is it?

The bit of history you're missing, is that TMO provoked empire into a full on war before good guys ever disbanded and joined in the first place.

TMO blue officers and leadership joined holo/empire on red around 4-6 months before the guild switched servers, and were given a lot of help by the holo/emp leadership in starting out on red. The provocation started when TMO brought their playerbase to blue and Tiggles (a player who was specifically given hundreds of thousands of plat worth of droppables by holo/emp) started shit talking on the forums about how he's going to take over the server and crush empire before anyone in his guild even hit level 60.

I agree with your slow decay assessment, but I find it to be relevant considering the era i described was 80% of TMO's life on red.

You can kinda give me shit for killing the guild, since I was adamant about not wanting any kind of leadership position. Just as there were other players who were capable of helping lead who didn't want to commit. Nobody stepped up to the plate to help DD in the ways he needed it after the leadership from blue failed him.

[Cecily]

The provocation started when TMO brought their playerbase to blue and Tiggles (a player who was specifically given hundreds of thousands of plat worth of droppables by holo/emp) started shit talking on the forums about how he's going to take over the server and crush empire before anyone in his guild even hit level 60.

I think a little too much has always been made of just how upset a little (well alot of) shit talk from Quickfingers made Empire. You guys are from Red FFS. Anyways, here's the reason for my for my opinion:

[Sun Jul 05 15:19:26 2015] GUILD MOTD: Gongshow - No raids until Tuesday morning with the exception of a Saturday night Trakanon (if you can't make it, don't sweat). Enjoy the holiday weekend. Work on 60 and VP keys if you still need it; make final preparations for Velious. *Important: Start smashing TMO. They chose to take in all of the servers scum - they are effectively Azrael, Friends, Good Guys, etc. now. Put their dicks in the dirt.*

[Jazzy]

Go away

[Cecily]

And Quickfingers was right. You guys are (with a few exceptions) the worst PvE players I've ever seen.
Frankly, losing to the talent pool on this server is kinda embarrassing.

[Xaanka]

And Quickfingers was right. You guys are (with a few exceptions) the worst PvE players I've ever seen.
Frankly, losing to the talent pool on this server is kinda embarrassing.

>attempting velious raids with level fucking 50's at the raid
>you are the worst PvE players i have seen, nope, definitely not shitty leadership decisions like letting level 50's contribute nothing and wipe every raid
>literal no attempt to teach players pve mechanics in any way shape or form, ever, at any point in time

[Xaanka]

like sorry tiggles might be a good player but if you can't pass that knowledge on to scrub tier players in a digestable manner you aren't cut out to lead a guild from rags to riches. 10/10 player, -2/10 leader figure literally caused his own guild more harm than he contributed [red era, not talking about past accomplishments obviously]

[Cecily]

Well that's just my impression from leveling up w/ Empire croutons. Please don't take it personally when I insult every single one of you for being terrible at PvE. That's not why you play here anyways.

[Xaanka]

Well that's just my impression from leveling up w/ Empire croutons. Please don't take it personally when I insult every single one of you for being terrible at PvE. That's not why you play here anyways.

Oh, I agree the average red player is shit at PvE. Just look at the state of red right now, nuff said. I'm just saying, there's a difference between a good player and a good leader. A good player is good at the game they're playing, while a good leader is both good at the game AND capable of passing their skills down onto scrub trashcan players. Multiply the importance of that skill x1000 on a server like red with low population and low average player skill, because there simply aren't enough good players on the server to recruit an elitist crew. Might work on games and servers with a higher pop but red demanded skills he didn't have. Can say the same thing about most leader figures who've came and went thru the red server with a few exceptions.

[clacbec]

nice reading

[Phaezed-Reality]

i was the VERY first person to be kicked from TMO, i was part of the red veterans, TMO leaders wanted to be first, sell there brand, attack big velious mobs, thinking they could kill them uncontested when all the veterans where like. hey you know what vindi is going to be a problem if just 2-3 people come and fuck with us, they are going to bring a fuckload more than 2-3.

so the veterans decided to grab what we could. This was the split, this is what broke TMO. tmo was sooooo far sighted, wanting to make a name for themselves down vindi first using the red veterans and taking all the credit, with no input. no nothing. I told them from the start the recruitment pool is small you cant kick anyone for anything major let alone minor.

But they kicked us because we wouldn't fall in line with there oblvious to the pvp roll has on red, it wasnt just darkdeath it was all the officers and leadership. i mean come on, who the fuck thought vindi was going to be taken uncontested first few weeks of velious with empire on the server.

[Farzo]

Lets not forget alot of the core <TMO> that came over were just doing so 2 RMT their 9 years of hording on blue off before quiting.

[AzzarTheGod]

They call me lord of the dunks.

Just wanted to contribute something meaningful to this thread.

[shokar]

Can someone redpill OP on the TMA platium transfering pyramid scheme.

[shokar]

also can anime stop breaking his forum persona its triggering me

[El Camacho]

TMO acted like they were some super exclusive club and could shit on anyone they wanted. It was incredible to watch how quickly they alienated almost every significant group of red players in such a short time span.

I guess they never realized that when they piss off people on red, they can retaliate.


Made all the more funny after listening to Tiggles talk shit to Gyno on Sirkens podcast. About how TMO would be better at PvP, because they could mobilze and "first engage" mobs on blue faster than other guilds. About half an hour of real gold in that episode.


Note: never apped or joined TMO, GG, Empire, Holocost or any of the other guilds involved.

[hatelore]

Well that's just my impression from leveling up w/ Empire croutons. Please don't take it personally when I insult every single one of you for being terrible at PvE. That's not why you play here anyways.

I always considered you a pretty cool cat Cecily, and we were guilded for a pretty good while in my time on blue back in the day, but... You press backstab and position for maximum dps. I also played a rogue, and it took very little skill. So I am curious as to what makes you think you are the authority on telling anyone how skillful a guild is or is not?

Gongshow and Colgate did something that no other guild on blue or red could do. They were masters at herding cats. No one could herd cats better than gong and colgate. This is fact.

[hatelore]

P.s , I had fun powerleveling DD and his crew with my bard when they came to red. I just wish they would have waited at least a few more months before alligator mouthing their chihuahua asses. They probably could have been a force to be reckoned with if they would have just waited and felt out red a little more.

[Genedin]

man, i remember that one guy in TMO leadership who just constantly talked shit about how they were going to take over blue and all of the vets on red laughed at him and predicted they would be griefed off the box.

some say they are still laughing to this day....

[Masakizt]

They just failed because leadership and officer core ghosted and refused to pass the baton.

Most people had zero access to batphones etc and people got sick of it

Shame really. 110% leaderships fault

[Stasis01]

Ya I dicked em a bit myself, I blame the shit talk etc from Tiggles and everything.

But deep down, I think I just wanted a TMO head on my wall.

[totmanc]

And Quickfingers was right. You guys are (with a few exceptions) the worst PvE players I've ever seen.
Frankly, losing to the talent pool on this server is kinda embarrassing.

As someone who has played eq on pvp since day one on live this statement is pretty ignorant. I played live with a few friends we would transfer to the blue server raid in the top guilds and gobble gear and go back to zek.

From a pve standpoint we always topped parses both heal and does. Smashing the blue guilds and the pve factor of the raids on blue make Tov and these raids look as easy as they are.

Number of reasons for it.
1) players on pvp servers are better with mechanics (dispels //aoes ect) because we have been conditioned to respond to them more frequently.
2) alertness remaining constantly vigilant always being paranoid from pvp.

Sure red has some dead weight players but the average blue player. Is far far worse. Remember only the elite long term players can reach 60 and raid on blue they exp much slower.

[El Camacho]

I just wish they would have waited at least a few more months before alligator mouthing their chihuahua asses. They probably could have been a force to be reckoned with if they would have just waited and felt out red a little more.

Same could be said about Good Guys and Fresh(Max).

[VZ_Xanit K'ven]

Same could be said about Good Guys and Fresh(Max).

Thanks for all the replies so far. Insightful stuff.


Looks like Red bit its own tail by griefing TMO off the box that early, cause they left without a fight and fighting is what red cares about.....(not uncontested raiding I hope...right? right??)


the attempted TMO coup was maybe the biggest chance for a influx of new andveteran players


Gongshow/Colgate proven cat herding credentials, but always strangled potential rivals in the craddle eventhough deck was stacked in their favour (70% of hardcore players were Empire + melee heavier build up)

but its ancient history I guess

teams2016 !!

[Jazzy]

And Quickfingers was right. You guys are (with a few exceptions) the worst PvE players I've ever seen.
Frankly, losing to the talent pool on this server is kinda embarrassing.


Tranny from blue who plays a rogue (possibly easiest PVE class to play) stating he/she/it is better than the entire population of red server (past and present) at everquest?

Got it.

[Uuruk]

Cecily is a pretty tolerable tranny compared to the rest we have here (Maerilth, Catherine etc)

I like her/him

[VZ_Xanit K'ven]

I remember the Episode agatha is refering to


the "Veteran" mutiny when they decided to turn their backs on TMO the night of velious release and got mad pixel fever for an uncontested CT


Even if TMO would have wiped / did wipe, you should have attended the Vindi raid

[Cecily]

Tranny from blue who plays a rogue (possibly easiest PVE class to play) stating he/she/it is better than the entire population of red server (past and present) at everquest?

Got it.

Yes.

[HippoNipple]

As someone who has played eq on pvp since day one on live this statement is pretty ignorant. I played live with a few friends we would transfer to the blue server raid in the top guilds and gobble gear and go back to zek.

From a pve standpoint we always topped parses both heal and does. Smashing the blue guilds and the pve factor of the raids on blue make Tov and these raids look as easy as they are.

Number of reasons for it.
1) players on pvp servers are better with mechanics (dispels //aoes ect) because we have been conditioned to respond to them more frequently.
2) alertness remaining constantly vigilant always being paranoid from pvp.

Sure red has some dead weight players but the average blue player. Is far far worse. Remember only the elite long term players can reach 60 and raid on blue they exp much slower.

This is the number one reason. On blue you compete for pulls and really want to keep the guilds as small as possible while being able to monitor spawns and downing content. This forces people to learn their role and be worth their spot. On Red raid spots are a revolving door and there are always new people.

The best players on Red are leagues ahead of the best on Blue. Red players seek competitive play (even though Red99 actually doesn't have any) so it is just natural that they are better gamers.

[AzzarTheGod]

Cecily is a pretty tolerable tranny compared to the rest we have here (Maerilth, Catherine etc)

I like her/him

shes stable cool n normal.

2 bad the others have done as much as possible to destroy any life for open trans posters.

[Uuruk]

Majority of maerilth and catherines post are extremely cringe worthy, do they ever leave their parents basement?

Catherine is more concerning since he/she has lived on this elf sim for like 6 years or something and used a voice changer to pretend he/she was a chick. Maerilth plays he role pretty well.

[Uuruk]

Maerilth has over 1k posts on this cesspool of a forum. has she even been on the box for a year yet? Thats worthy of concern and a stern cringe

True, but that thing only destroys the forums. Catherine actually plays which is far worse IMO.

[Kerwin]

Posts Made By: Uuruk
Today, 06:54 AM
Today, 07:44 AM
Today, 08:41 AM
Today, 08:49 AM
Today, 08:53 AM
Today, 08:59 AM
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Today, 11:11 AM
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Today, 04:41 PM
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unemployed

[EatitNerd]

TMO was really sad, I remember going 3v30 in Kael a few times, even without vindi it was always a slaughterhouse despite being outnumbered 10 to 1 on average.

[AzzarTheGod]

Kerwin Autobiography By: Kerwin
Today, 06:54 AM - got pills
Today, 07:44 AM - took pills
Today, 08:41 AM - took more pills
Today, 08:49 AM - took more pills
Today, 08:53 AM - took more pills
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Today, 12:49 PM - took more pills
Today, 04:25 PM - took more pills
Today, 04:41 PM - took more pills
Today, 04:44 PM - took more pills

pills

O I see.

[Uuruk]

Made all those posts while getting paid.

[Aesop]

he's on welfare then.

[Sirban]

Posts Made By: Uuruk
Today, 06:54 AM
Today, 07:44 AM
Today, 08:41 AM
Today, 08:49 AM
Today, 08:53 AM
Today, 08:59 AM
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Today, 11:11 AM
Today, 11:34 AM
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unemployed


best post in thread

[Yuuvy The Destroyer]

As someone who has played eq on pvp since day one on live this statement is pretty ignorant. I played live with a few friends we would transfer to the blue server raid in the top guilds and gobble gear and go back to zek.

From a pve standpoint we always topped parses both heal and does. Smashing the blue guilds and the pve factor of the raids on blue make Tov and these raids look as easy as they are.

Number of reasons for it.
1) players on pvp servers are better with mechanics (dispels //aoes ect) because we have been conditioned to respond to them more frequently.
2) alertness remaining constantly vigilant always being paranoid from pvp.

Sure red has some dead weight players but the average blue player. Is far far worse. Remember only the elite long term players can reach 60 and raid on blue they exp much slower.


This has not been my experience, and iirc on live zek servers were among the last to clear new content.

[Jazzy]

Who the fuck is catherine?

[El Camacho]

Thanks for all the replies so far. Insightful stuff.


Looks like Red bit its own tail by griefing TMO off the box that early, cause they left without a fight and fighting is what red cares about.....(not uncontested raiding I hope...right? right??)


the attempted TMO coup was maybe the biggest chance for a influx of new andveteran players


Gongshow/Colgate proven cat herding credentials, but always strangled potential rivals in the craddle eventhough deck was stacked in their favour (70% of hardcore players were Empire + melee heavier build up)

but its ancient history I guess

teams2016 !!

I disagree.

It isn't like any of those resistance guilds made good choices and didn't shoot themselves in the foot and set the stage for their collapse.

Empire didn't just run out and crush them day 1. That happened well after those "resistance" guilds put themselves into situations they had no business being in yet. All of which can be traced back to multiple issues, but common factor is they all wanted to rush to glory and greatness instead of taking time to build up slowly into something coherent. I'm being kind here about the "choices" they made.

A couple of fights shouldn't cause a guild to fall apart. There were more problems prior to that.

[Uuruk]

Who the fuck is catherine?

Tranny on blue that cheated for a long time via Autofire to get FTE on mobs. Also used a voice changer in teamspeak.

[derpcake]

It sounds like you are too emotional to have an unbiased opinion on the matter. TMO leadership know how to run a guild and Agatha isn't going to bring them down on his own. People get sick of losing and putting in time with no hope of doing the content they want to do. TMO never would have contended with Empire.

yea TMO leadership did well

what was the statement again? "in 3 months we'll drive empire of the box"?

made me lol back then, still funny :)

[derpcake]

Well that's just my impression from leveling up w/ Empire croutons. Please don't take it personally when I insult every single one of you for being terrible at PvE. That's not why you play here anyways.

pvp is mechanically a lot harder then pve

pve is a lot harder in pvp gear then in blue gear with 50ish resists across the board

TMO didn't have the power to back up their boasting, yet here you are claiming they are the superior players

wonder why they didn't take over the PVE landscape, recruiting the few good players that r99 has and dominate the server?

oh right, the better players lost the fight and lacked tenacity and cohesion once that was clear

[AzzarTheGod]

i was the VERY first person to be kicked from TMO, i was part of the red veterans, TMO leaders wanted to be first, sell there brand, attack big velious mobs, thinking they could kill them uncontested when all the veterans where like. hey you know what vindi is going to be a problem if just 2-3 people come and fuck with us, they are going to bring a fuckload more than 2-3.

so the veterans decided to grab what we could. This was the split, this is what broke TMO. tmo was sooooo far sighted, wanting to make a name for themselves down vindi first using the red veterans and taking all the credit, with no input. no nothing. I told them from the start the recruitment pool is small you cant kick anyone for anything major let alone minor.

But they kicked us because we wouldn't fall in line with there oblvious to the pvp roll has on red, it wasnt just darkdeath it was all the officers and leadership. i mean come on, who the fuck thought vindi was going to be taken uncontested first few weeks of velious with empire on the server.


It was a huge mistake contesting Velious on day 1. Not a fucking clue why that call would have been made, maybe Aalpha can fill us in on what Zeelot and Darkdeath were thinking? I was hanging in Empire at the time and remember everyone was disgusted.

Someone should have berged out and stood up to TMO leadership before the call was finalized. No idea why this didn't happen either.

You guys got camped for 16 hours, just like the veterans tried to tell you would happen. Many Empire logged out after the first 2 hours of PvP in protest because it was sickening that TMO was having to go out like this. And they weren't even all 60 yet.

Anyway this was the first break.

There were 2 breaks, but I can't remember the second one.

[Doors]

TMO failed because they ran their mouths and made a bunch of claims about how they would beat Empire out in a few short months.

Empire then declared war on TMO and griefed them off the server.

[Phaezed-Reality]

Someone should have berged out and stood up to TMO leadership before the call was finalized. No idea why this didn't happen either.
.

Agatha did, first he got kicked from saying we should gear our players with the most loots instead of getting bogged down in a velious contested mobs, lets go grab the good stuff that was fully popped all around old world and pop, we coulda put 50 items on the guild that day, instead they went to vindi and my veteran crew agatha/vapo knew better after telling them not to raid vindi and to do old world, we went and did old world and while we did inny and they got camped at vindi one of the iffcers ported up and saw 23 TMO in hate just downed inny.

thats when everyone else got kicked from tMO.


people told them what was wrong, they wernt having any of it.

[Phaezed-Reality]

TMO was really sad, I remember going 3v30 in Kael a few times, even without vindi it was always a slaughterhouse despite being outnumbered 10 to 1 on average.

[Phaezed-Reality]

I remember the Episode agatha is refering to


the "Veteran" mutiny when they decided to turn their backs on TMO the night of velious release and got mad pixel fever for an uncontested CT


Even if TMO would have wiped / did wipe, you should have attended the Vindi raid

no, we would have just ended up wiping to vindi a bunch, instead we got like 30+ loots while the blue side of TMO got bogged down at vindi.

[AzzarTheGod]

Agatha did, first he got kicked from saying we should gear our players with the most loots instead of getting bogged down in a velious contested mobs, lets go grab the good stuff that was fully popped all around old world and pop, we coulda put 50 items on the guild that day, instead they went to vindi and my veteran crew agatha/vapo knew better after telling them not to raid vindi and to do old world, we went and did old world and while we did inny and they got camped at vindi one of the iffcers ported up and saw 23 TMO in hate just downed inny.

thats when everyone else got kicked from tMO.


people told them what was wrong, they wernt having any of it.

Would have made some good recordings for the annals of history.

Bless Agatha. First martyr of <TMO>

[DRAGONBAIT]

i raided with em on kael right before the fall apart. we got a nice fight against friends and it was a complete dissaster, zero pvp culture and no willing to learn, they kinda settled onto dieing and corpse raiding instead or learning. Targets being called on that fight had no sense, people where not buff ready, not pumices being carried or not many and the general attitude was like, ok, lets fight and die. You cannot survive in here if ur officers think this way.

[Nadir]

TMO Blue core was warned of the scumbaggery that they ended up letting into TMO. They did not heed the call and let greedy pixel lusters take their tag. Day 1 of velious was the downfall. Had the greedy rmt pixel fucks shown up to down vindi, there's a chance he falls and TMO might stool be thriving today. But alas, vapo, agatha and other scum went to snag some kunark dragon loot.

But really, it was the officer's poor judgement that killed TMO.

[totmanc]

If the first vindi was 10% and missing enough players to down cazic sounds like it would have been a kill. And built some unity. I wasn't in tmo so I don't know truly

[snufzaimoverlord]

Shoulda suckled on Empires Bosom until they could survive on their own.

[AzzarTheGod]

If the first vindi was 10% and missing enough players to down cazic sounds like it would have been a kill. And built some unity. I wasn't in tmo so I don't know truly

laughable post. there isn't going to be any unity with vapo n the boys. those guys are all toxic sperglords outside of reebz

[Videri]

Also the majority of us wanted to experience the launch and the rush for targets, it was fun and we had a a valiant effort.

Oh hm. I forgot this is a game. Like, for fun.

[syztem]

I am pretty sure they refer to Darkdeath being an officer, because halfway in-- he was THE ONLY person on except for when faydedar or sev was up or something. No one could get ahold of aalamar or anyone else. iirc aalamar was back in NFP mid raid stripped of all droppables, selling cofs/fungi tunics/bcg/hiero cloaks. Inspecting him he was all no drop armor mostly. OOCing to trade something like 300k red to blue and item as well, while the guild was on its 'up game" seeing 2 different officers trading back to blue at the same time(maybe they thought they had enough wealth, maybe not who knows) but it made it look like they giving up.

First fay raid had to be convinced, and we ended up pulling it to some retarded island because potential spies. Second faydedar was essentially led by Vapo/Tune GW crew + some tmo, Darkdeath pulled it in after we were told not to engage it by officers online until they got there but after some 45 minute wait+ and no officers appeared DD went ahead and brought it in himself and we killed it. few days later the hate incident happened. was lol, saw it coming so hard.

[Xaanka]

The real reason tmo didn't work on red is because everyone thinks they are a chief and lack discipline. Just reading animes posts makes me cringe so hard. He is so full of himself and full of shit it makes me gag. Anime missed majority of our raids slacking to get there, if he did show he'd have to leave or afk for majority of the raid to eat dinner with his mom and dad. Having the highest raid % in the guild is laughable because it's so far fetched.. Bing the first 60 is also another lie. Anime do TMO a favor and never speak for us because youre delirious and completely full of yourself. Also darkdeath was not our leader, u derp cake, it was zeelot..

We made bad choices and payed the price, it happens. And Tiggles speaks out of his ass, his claims for server dominance are stand alone comments because the actual leadership did not have those intentions - we played here to have fun with old friends and try to make a name for ourselves.

PS anime I hope u read this and retort because I need another good laugh.

Didn't you abandon your guild and stop logging on for most of Velious?

Anime missed majority of our raids slacking to get there
Being at the raid before you, camped out porting the rest of the raid on an untagged lowbie alt isn't missing a raid or slacking to get there.
Dude this was a loot council guild, you should have known this sort of stuff unless it was all just a giant sham guild RMT ponzi scheme and you never actually did your job as an officer *mic drop*

if he did show he'd have to leave or afk for majority of the raid to eat dinner with his mom and dad

I can feel your hot-pocket grease stained fingers sliding across the keyboard in rage as you come up with your latest sick burn: The guy who spent every morning doing exterior construction would rather cook himself a fresh home cooked meal at 7pm than play everquest
Be honest with me, were you even aware you guys raided right when west coast people eat dinner?

Having the highest raid % in the guild is laughable because it's so far fetched..

I had the highest total raids attended of any MEMBER.
Darkdeath is the only player who had more raids attended than me, but raid attendance only ever really got counted when he showed up. Most of TMO red's raids took place without any officer present, therefore no recorded attendance. Factoring that in, I attended more raids than DD.
Aalamar and 1 or 2 others had a higher % raid attendance than me, but they quit when velious came out. And that's only because your guys DKP page doesn't decay attendance % after you quit.

Bing the first 60 is also another lie.
Again, really out of touch. Anime was my third reroll within TMO, because you guys didn't have a rogue (tiggles doesn't count, he never showed up)
If you want to prove you weren't a shitty officer who couldn't even keep track of his own players, tell me who were my characters in TMO before Anime?

Also darkdeath was not our leader, u derp cake, it was zeelot..

That's funny, because a majority of members in your guild didn't even know that Zeelot was the guild leader. Because he logged in once every 3 months. Definitely not a glaring example of what a huge failure the leaders of TMO were.

Darkdeath was an officer, but he was the functioning leader of TMO. Why? Because Zee never logged on or showed up to anything. You never logged on or showed up to anything and when you did lead raids everyone cringed. Aalamar was stripped since velious came out. Alarti got banned and wouldn't come back after being offered free 60 clerics or 1-60 powerlevel of a new character by several players incluing myself.

[Xaanka]

I am pretty sure they refer to Darkdeath being an officer, because halfway in-- he was THE ONLY person on except for when faydedar or sev was up or something. No one could get ahold of aalamar or anyone else. iirc aalamar was back in NFP mid raid stripped of all droppables, selling cofs/fungi tunics/bcg/hiero cloaks. Inspecting him he was all no drop armor mostly. OOCing to trade something like 300k red to blue and item as well, while the guild was on its 'up game" seeing 2 different officers trading back to blue at the same time(maybe they thought they had enough wealth, maybe not who knows) but it made it look like they giving up.

First fay raid had to be convinced, and we ended up pulling it to some retarded island because potential spies. Second faydedar was essentially led by Vapo/Tune GW crew + some tmo, Darkdeath pulled it in after we were told not to engage it by officers online until they got there but after some 45 minute wait+ and no officers appeared DD went ahead and brought it in himself and we killed it. few days later the hate incident happened. was lol, saw it coming so hard.

literally this aalpha retard is trying to shame me on the forums for being "late to raids" when i was usually offline to port him and other TMO officers who never showed up on time to anything.

like seriously how the fuck would aalpha know anything about who attended what raids? he was never at anything on time except the shitty raids he would try to lead which usually failed and ended in at least one or two members quitting the guild. he didn't log on for months at a time during velious.

[Xaanka]

that moment when someone who's been a TMO member for 4 months sends you a tell asking, "who's zeelot"

[syztem]

Vapo and tune ended up leading most of the TMO raids, including fay, hate, fear etc. Even though they joined under the impression they had 0 intent on leading, because they were sick of and tired of leading and wanted to be followed. but everywhere our 'crew' of former GW would go, we would get a few curious extras that wanted to go.

TMO mid on the "come up"
http://i.imgur.com/UXnfX9k.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/OOPDjYa.jpg
the one raid aalpha ever lead(barely, he called some ice island 5 min extra run away afraid of spies then dictated who got what loot) and even then it was tanked by a gods work member, and carried entirely BY us.

http://i.imgur.com/hIXTgnJ.jpg
again, yet another 2 groups in seb being held together by ex-god work members. One at fungi, one at Ledge out of pure farm/exp for those already 60 or working towards it. Do you see zeelot? aalpha? anyone besides qazzaz's 20th alt where he made a point to show up pantless to every raid so he could get tolan legs after taking his mithril off when a pair dropped.

[Ragnaros]

oh man great picture jupe
miss those times

[Xaanka]

my favorite was how none of the tmo officers knew how to stop vapo from wiping them in halls of testing with his deleveled epic mage until i taught them how to fear/dispel pets.

instead of using the 55 bard and 55 cleric i left in halls and gave them all the logins to, they would just call the raids off if vapo was on and i wasn't around to poof the pet.

[Xaanka]

literally managed to get an entire raid force logout-camped for a full day, when i gave them a half hour notice that groups were forming to gank us at zlandicar.

hey we know people are forming up and porting to disrupt our raid, let's keep pulling the dragon we've never killed in an extremely disadvantageous position of a very difficult zone to CR. also "pve experts" trying to water dance zlandi deep in the dragon necro tunnels, just lol.

other highlights: having to explain to them how melee push worked during their first maestro kill
having to explain to them that bind sight can be used on player characters

[AzzarTheGod]

that moment when someone who's been a TMO member for 4 months sends you a tell asking, "who's zeelot"

big luls

oh man great picture jupe
miss those times

This. TMO were the dawgs dawg.

[Smedy]

i once told darkdeath to use pumice in pvp, he wrote back with a wall of bluebie text how necromancers don't need pumice because they have the spell nullify magic and i needed to learn the game bla bla bla

i was never convinced TMO would last more then a month on red99 but that pretty much put a nail in the coffin for me, these blue retards will never learn how 2 pvp

[DRAGONBAIT]

i once told darkdeath to use pumice in pvp, he wrote back with a wall of bluebie text how necromancers don't need pumice because they have the spell nullify magic and i needed to learn the game bla bla bla

i was never convinced TMO would last more then a month on red99 but that pretty much put a nail in the coffin for me, these blue retards will never learn how 2 pvp

i knew from back on live that pvp guilds were much better than blue ones. having a look at tallon zek and solusek ro servers gave u a good feel of what was going on. That carried onto this days, red is for men and competitive players and blue is from warmbodys, tho i have to say 70% of the red 99 is a bunch of bluebies who cannot even compete on a blue server...so just figure the rest out.

[Uuruk]

Rockandretard is literally one of the worst shamans on the server.

[silo32]

Rockandretard is literally one of the worst shamans on the server.

didnt read any posts but this

came in to reply this

didnt see tmo impact the server much than add some nobodies to the ranks of red

many non factors but hey I enjoy a few extra nuggets in my bowl

[silo32]

i once told darkdeath to use pumice in pvp, he wrote back with a wall of bluebie text how necromancers don't need pumice because they have the spell nullify magic and i needed to learn the game bla bla bla

i was never convinced TMO would last more then a month on red99 but that pretty much put a nail in the coffin for me, these blue retards will never learn how 2 pvp

and this

[Phaezed-Reality]

oh man great picture jupe
miss those times

crazy how none of them cept u considers agatha a friend anymore.

[VZ_Xanit K'ven]

If the first vindi was 10% and missing enough players to down cazic sounds like it would have been a kill. And built some unity. I wasn't in tmo so I don't know truly

this still is left unanswered !

any screenshots that can settle who was making bad calls?

If it was below 20% , the runaway-2 Groups at Inny could have made the difference

[VZ_Xanit K'ven]

TMO should have joined GG

[Ragnaros]

I was there for the first vindi attempt and can confirm we never got the mob below 90%, Sworen literally splatted
Although yes, the other 2 groups could have easily made the difference but the selfish azrael crew in friends wanted ez pixels

[VZ_Xanit K'ven]

but the selfish azrael crew in friends wanted ez pixels

who are the azrael crew in friends? isnt that just friends?

[VZ_Xanit K'ven]

Thought Azrael was once a big player, but then split 60% / 40 % into Azrael / Friends or

Lite and Crew (North, Macca, Tobi, Brobbe, Rockem, Mifli, ..)

and

Beastgor and Gang (Jib, Pikrib, Smedy, Roberto, Barcode,...)


always thought main reason GG failed was cause Friends didnt manage to unrustle their jimmies with Lite (his famous Ragefire/Salaryman call didnt exactly help strenghen guild cohesion)

and pushed for Vapo to lead even tho the tiny 4-man Crew of GW came out of the woodwork relatively late

and now they are accused of torpedoing TMO? man, they sure love playing as underdogs

[derpcake]

We made bad choices and payed the price, it happens. And Tiggles speaks out of his ass, his claims for server dominance are stand alone comments because the actual leadership did not have those intentions - we played here to have fun with old friends and try to make a name for ourselves.

i missed TMO leadership telling Tiggles to stfu

guess rest of r99 did also it seems

mistakes were made, indeed

[Samsung]

Thought Azrael was once a big player, but then split 60% / 40 % into Azrael / Friends or

Lite and Crew (North, Macca, Tobi, Brobbe, Rockem, Mifli, ..)

and

Beastgor and Gang (Jib, Pikrib, Smedy, Roberto, Barcode,...)


always thought main reason GG failed was cause Friends didnt manage to unrustle their jimmies with Lite (his famous Ragefire/Salaryman call didnt exactly help strenghen guild cohesion)

and pushed for Vapo to lead even tho the tiny 4-man Crew of GW came out of the woodwork relatively late

and now they are accused of torpedoing TMO? man, they sure love playing as underdogs


Hehe puts mifflis name instead of mine. You must really hate me.

[Xaanka]

Truth of the matter is TMO had fun on the velious launch. We got the first vindi to roughly 10% and after that we continued to have fun that day and for many months after the fact. People had a difference of opinions and entitlement which is poisonous to any guild and purging them had little to no affect to our guild moving forward from that moment. You talk about sitting on us for hours after vindi which is not factual. Also the majority of us wanted to experience the launch and the rush for targets, it was fun and we had a a valiant effort.

Oh hm. I forgot this is a game. Like, for fun.

If this was true and if the velious launch was so fun for everyone in TMO, why did over half of the players from TMO blue and most of the guild's officers quit on velious release day?

Head so far up your own ass you've adapted to breathe methane, Aalpha.

[quido]

TMO had great potential but should have listened to my advice ;-) I sent the TMO leadership a long message detailing the few players that would turn their guild KOS to Empire, the known toxic shitbags who were trying to join, and some accounts of some other folks not quite as controversial.

[Xaanka]

not only did letting those players into tmo contribute to empire becoming kos to tmo, but a lot of them left/got kicked/app denied from tmo and started their own crews to fuck with tmo raids on the reg.

i agree tmo had a lot of potential but some seriously bad calls neutered the guild. they all stem from tmo blue leadership not really knowing how to handle the red server. everything they did would have been no problem for a guild on blue. croot all your competition's worst enemies? who cares it's not like they can stop you from raiding on blue. burn bridges? there's always someone to replace them on blue, not so much here.

- burning bridges too soon (gg merge, tiggles forumquest and empire history, etc)
- how velious release was handled (easily half the officers and half the tmo blue players quit)
- no set raiding schedule (there's no variance over here, more people show up to a schedule than a batphone)
- alienating their best and most dedicated players while rewarding big time retards (all your officers quit, you needed to find new ones)
- paranoia over spying while simultaneously tagging anyone's 15th alt and general apathy over clearing the memberlist/batphone list or making teamspeak more secure.
- inability to mobilize for raids properly due to lack of schedule (gather in 1 zone, port in together)

like literally after velious no one gave a shit about clearing the userlist, adding permissions to teamspeak, and gathering for raids beforehand. all things i suggested and brought up with leadership repeatedly. real ironic when friends used my teamspeak username to spy on their hate raids and wipe them while i was on vacation :)

[Uuruk]

TMO could have been fun to share the server with but it was led by autistic leaders who didn't take any advice of more experienced players. Now the only guild on server can't even kill Vyemm. Sad server.

[Nirgon]

TMO had great potential but should have listened to my advice ;-) I sent the TMO leadership a long message detailing the few players that would turn their guild KOS to Empire, the known toxic shitbags who were trying to join, and some accounts of some other folks not quite as controversial.

all they had to do was join Empire, snortle up the loots as top RA players then split off and take as many as they could with them at an opportune time

the pride comes before the fall, u no

[AzzarTheGod]

TMO had great potential but should have listened to my advice ;-) I sent the TMO leadership a long message detailing the few players that would turn their guild KOS to Empire, the known toxic shitbags who were trying to join, and some accounts of some other folks not quite as controversial.

I have these letters.

I keep them in my filing cabinet under the label tag "The Jeremy Papers"


the pride comes before the fall, u no


/thread

TMO should have tried doing what everyone with a pulse was saying to do. Get some items that <Empire> was more than willing to help them with as long as they are putting in the time, but no, had to try to recreate <TMO> blue on red and make a big splash.

For shame. I like Aalpha, but the leaders themselves were so cringe between the RMT at NFP bank, stripped officers on raids, and permanent AFK shot-callers. Yikes really.

[Xaanka]

TMO could have been fun to share the server with but it was led by autistic leaders who didn't take any advice of more experienced players. Now the only guild on server can't even kill Vyemm. Sad server.

TMO were cut throat on blue, some of the things they did were red as fuck. They had the whole server cucked. They might not have known how to adapt to red and they may have been too quick to try making power moves before establishing themselves, but I'm confident in saying Vyemm and Vulak would be dead right now if the TMO tag had outlasted empire's disband.

[Cecily]

all they had to do was join Empire, snortle up the loots as top RA players then split off and take as many as they could with them at an opportune time

the pride comes before the fall, u no

no u. Well no that's exactly what I was doing and you guys KoSing my pals kinda killed that for me. Thanks alot!

[Kyden]

I was in TMO for a couple of months. Attended quite a few raids.

Something that nobody has mentioned is that Nostalrius started picking up steam around that same time and alot of the TMO player base started playing that. You would go on Teamspeak or whatever and half of the players were playing WoW.

[Jazzy]

Its a shame the top blue guild never tried red

all we got were those tmo retards

[Nirgon]

ya all kinds of tards got roped into Nostalrius, I tried to warn ya

[Xaanka]

basically 3/4 the guild was on nost until a batphone went out

[Kongal]

nost was so gud

[AzzarTheGod]

The Nostalrius mic drop that the staff there did was such delicious schadenfreude.

Possibly fake cease and desist letter, project goes out on top with a big fat sack of money.