necro charm help ??

[tagaa]

Hey im 39 necro and would like to start charming undead and fighting in that means. currently i have 68 charisma but i feel that it may be to low to actually go out and charm without getting more char gear. currently i am broke so dont have the means to get charisma gear. Knowing this is it worth it for me to try to use my charm to kill stuff?

[Vellaen]

Charisma is only necessary for enchanters. As a necro, your charms only check against relative level and the MR of the mob.

[Freakish]

Charisma is only necessary for enchanters. As a necro, your charms only check against relative level and the MR of the mob.

Correct. The best way to charm as a necro is finding something low enough it doesn't break often and having some hp gear so when he breaks charm you don't get instant gibbed. Screaming Terror is useful for broken pets and finding a duo with an enchanter for tash or a shaman for malo will prolong your pet charms as well.

There are higher level tactics of giving a mob -MR gear so it has a lower innate MR and your charms last longer but for exp, especially solo, its much more effective to just be sending your pets in at each other and breaking when your current one gets low to finish it off for exp.

[Kawhi]

I'm pretty sure at that level you can already charm solo in the church area in Kaesora. It is amazing exp. Can be a little tricky getting there through the spiders, some of which will see invis. But it is really great exp down there. One of my favorite camps in the game thus far. Loot a fang off Xalgoz if someone is killing him for the Howling Stones key quest, which is a great charm zone when you get to the mid 50s.

And yes unless you have a cleric that is casting CH on your pets, it is a lot better to just kill your pet when it gets low.

[Spyder73]

Currently leveling my necromancer using charm techniques…I neglected charming for a long time because I didn’t really understand it because I had never done it before. Charming is by far my favorite way of playing EQ now (currently slumming around in CoM upper floors).

1) When you are learning the ropes of charming, duo instead of solo. It is much easier to learn with a partner and not have to break charm EVERY fight and also to have some support for when things go badly (They will – often at first)

2) Screaming terror is not “nice to use” – it is 100% mandatory. When charm breaks tab target pet and start casting Screaming terror and then re-charm

3) ALWAYS root the mob you are fighting – this way when a charm breaks all you gotta do is ST/Re-charm and you don’t have both mobs eating you.

4) Charming becomes infinitely easier at level 48 when you gain Paralyzing Earth (long duration root)

5) Don’t charm anything that’s not blue con or you will have a bad time.

6) Root is your best friend when charming, can’t stress thing enough, root everything in sight at all times IMO.

7) gear is meaningless – I have got to level 55 with 8 equipment slots completely empty – Circlet of Shadow and Jboots are the only real game changing pieces of equipment.

8) Charming get easier and easier the higher level you get, if you are getting discouraged, just remember that every level you gain will make it that much easier. Better spells, more HP, less resists – it gets way easier the higher level you get.

[tagaa]

Thanks for the info all

[Swish]

Set screaming terror to a hotkey (I always had it at 1), to minimize the damage you take when charm breaks.

[Spyder73]

Set screaming terror to a hotkey (I always had it at 1), to minimize the damage you take when charm breaks.

You should have all your spells hotkeys n00b

[tagaa]

Pros don't need hotkeys . Hotkeys are for those with slow reaction times ;)

[kgallowaypa]

Kind of a hijack but maybe someone can shed some insight. I heard that a low Charisma affects the duration of necro fear. Idk if that statement was lore based on how bad you speak the more scared the mob is of you or if there is actually a mechanic based on -CHA. I have seen a lot of necro items with negative CHA and some necros I know rave about it for some reason.

[tagaa]

Kind of a hijack but maybe someone can shed some insight. I heard that a low Charisma affects the duration of necro fear. Idk if that statement was lore based on how bad you speak the more scared the mob is of you or if there is actually a mechanic based on -CHA. I have seen a lot of necro items with negative CHA and some necros I know rave about it for some reason.
from my understanding necros dont do a Cha check. it is done with mobs resist. so Cha is not needed on necro

[Kawhi]

No data on this, but it feels to me like fear reaches its completion a very high percentage of a time. That is, if the spell isn't resisted initially, then it almost always lasts for every tick that it is supposed to.

[Llodd]

Cha helps with lulling on necro. Useful on some camps in HS, but it's a pita to carry around.

[Ando]

USE YOUR LEVEL 24 UNDEAD LULL.

Holy crap. I talk to so many necros who don't abuse this spell and that is criminal. Absolutely mandatory while charm soloing undead dungeons. Does not require LOS so if you get a crit resist then FD. FD Fail? Harmshield and wait for FD reset.

[Llodd]

Why not use your lvl 4 lull instead?

I only really ever use lull in HS South because summoners. HS north and west don't need it unless your doing the boss room in north, and even then it's not essential. Pull the room, PE everything , go to town. faster than lulling.

Have seen some necs clear the rooms in north untill all the non ph spawns are undead so they can just lull-pull the nameds/ph. Kinda boring, but can semi afk it.

[Kawhi]

Yeah agreed I'm not using lulls because I want all of the mobs pounding on my pet.

If you don't already have a pet when you want to pull a room, then summon a regular pet. Send it in to aggro then root all the mobs in place. Pet dies then you're ready to charm.

If pet will die before you can root all the mobs, then just root one undead mob and FD. Let other mobs reset. Stand up, cancel magic, ST, and charm. Then send it in to get all the mobs on it.

[DMN]

I'm not sue id bother with charming too much at 39. Not solo anyway. I think that long lasting roots is really the key to being effective. I messed around with my necro around levl 36 in kaesora and it didn't work very well. I've played a necro and enchantr to max level before so i know generally what to be doing. But i get constant short duration on charm and root, I used screaming terror on that necro somewhere around 15-20 times total since i made him, usually on blues or evens. NEVER ONCE DID IT LAND. I don't know if they have the resist on that spell cranked up on this server(or vrant cranked it uo in velious) or what but that is way out of wack for what I remember on live/classic era. It should land almost all the time on low blues, most time on high blues.

[Spyder73]

I think it is a level thing for sure. I started Charming at level 50 in CoM and noticed with every level that I was resisted less and less. Moved to HS basement at 55 and am about to ding 56 and I think ST has never once been resisted.

[Llodd]

36 in kaesora is rough. Start at 39+ and things hold much much better.you can even clear enough room in the tunnels to fear kite if charming isn't your thing.

[Izmael]

IMO dont charm until you are like 50. This is when spells you will use will be viable mana wise (ST, root..)
Then I'd just do CoM moat to 53, CoM 2nd floor passways to 54, then just go to HS since at 54 you get Deflux - really important for indoors charming.

If HS at 54 sounds a little scary, wait for 56 then just roflstomp HS basement.

[Izmael]

Just a few tips.

- Get Elder beads if you can. Makes you med faster.
- keep lull memmed in CoM and cast on roamers you dont want to join the fight.
- get a CoS (obv)
- if you FD off some mobs from CoM 2nd floor, always /q

[DMN]

Just a few tips.

- Get Elder beads if you can. Makes you med faster.

What the hhell is this all about?


- keep lull memmed in CoM and cast on roamers you dont want to join the fight.


Why bother with the ridiculously high lull cirtical fails on this erver? I get like 1 per 3 casts crit failure. Might as well just root.

- get a CoS (obv)



Save you a couple seconds of casting time and a tiny amount of mana.


- if you FD off some mobs from CoM 2nd floor, always /q

One of the reasons why circlet is overrated ass.

[Tecmos Deception]

You can use a life tap dot on the thing the beads summon to keep lich going forever even if not in combat.

Lull resists a lot if you're lulling something too high level, and crit resists a lot if you have shitty charisma. It serves a different purpose than root except when you're killing greens.

Also, you should play another class. A necro bashing prenerf cos is Grade A Sacrilege. Lol. Use search and Google and educate yourself about why you're the only necro ever who thinks it isn't a phenomenal item, regardless of cost.

[Colgate]

i'd rank pre-nerf circlet of shadows as one of the top 5 most powerful items in this era

you can cast the bond of death line on an eye of zomm created via holgresh elder beads and retain the recourse heal over time effect, thus negating the penalty of meditating with lich on and without requiring you to fight an NPC

[Doctor Jeff]

DMN is a known forum troll, look at his other posts.
Good tips, Izmael.

[DMN]

i'd rank pre-nerf circlet of shadows as one of the top 5 most powerful items in this era

you can cast the bond of death line on an eye of zomm created via holgresh elder beads and retain the recourse heal over time effect, thus negating the penalty of meditating with lich on and without requiring you to fight an NPC

Not with the nerf to FD not always wiping the aggro. Circlet does very little but save a slot, tiny amount of mana, and like 2 seconds casting time. If you are charming you should have everything rooted anyway and it's not like having to take 2 seconds to cast invis is that big of a deal.

If you are doting your on your eye simply to med, you might as well just use a lower level lich ability. You only get about 2 mana per life in the DoT taps. Iksar regen should cancel out the call of bones completely and most of the damage from lich at 60. You also have to wait until you have sustain significant damage to get full use out of them Nope, those beads do not impress me at all for "meditation enhancement" ability. Sounds like bad necro with a crutch, much like CoS.

[Colgate]

naw ur putting in way too much effort

[Izmael]

Not sure if DMN is a really good troll or a genuine retard.

[DMN]

Not sure if DMN is a really good troll or a genuine retard.

Says the guy too dumb to figure out how to tap exp /loot mobs instead of thinking he is cool wasting mana with his eye.

[Siberious]

Elder beads are a luxury item for Necros, say a charm pull went bad and to got beat down to low and want to tap without engaging mobs (but be careful eye has big agro range on mobs), also great as they are for any class to hammer off of and like a monk can be used to FD split rooms.

To say pre-nerf CoS is overrated is silly IMO - instant charm break is amazing in HS when mob needs to be at 4-5% for deflux kill, and saving a spell bar slot is sooooo nice. Try charming HS without pre-nerf CoS with 3-5 mobs at a time and then do it with pre-nerf CoS and tell me how essential it is for instant charm break when 2-4 mobs are owning your pet. Not to mention the instant invisible running around or coming up from FD is very nice as well.

For newer Necros elder beads are luxury, pre-nerf CoS is the only must have item (besides some 55hp rings cause they are cheap) that you need, because doing HS from 54-60 or charming CoM just isn't the same.

Is it required to charm period? No.

Does it make charming lots more fun & efficient? Absolutely.

[Izmael]

Oh yes, teh fun of making an eye in HS for the first time and realizing its aggro range is BRUTAL.

[Siberious]

@Izmael

I did it twice before I learned lol - once at entrance when east roamer aggro'd thought someone trained me, then again in basement when I was low HP, and died then I realized what I did wrong haha.

[Izmael]

Says the guy too dumb to figure out how to tap exp /loot mobs instead of thinking he is cool wasting mana with his eye.

I never contested the fact that I'm a genuine retard myself. I was just wondering about you, my friend. :)

[Crawdad]

Elder beads are really a monk "must have" item and something to hammer off of and heal up with during downtime for Necros, nothing too crazy. Just buy a couple Stalking Probes (http://wiki.project1999.com/Stalking_Probe) for those 'ohshit' moments when you need to tap but don't have a target. Buy 2 or 3 so you can recharge them, the cost is something like 1plat per recharge versus the 120k+ beads go for now (that's nearly 600k uses of stalking probe...).

CoS on the other hand is a game changer, in that it literally allows you to play the game differently. CoS allows you to spend 100% of the time you want to be invis, invis. Throw in FD and Lich faction changes and Necros are able to get pretty much anywhere they want to be. Don't listen to people to try to marginalize this, but also don't pay more than 10k for one. Root rot in the middle of zones without fear of wanderers, stand up immediately after a FD, run around in all the goodly cities that you want, etc... tons of uses for a CoS that every class would kill for.

There's not a ton of great charm spots for Necro (that I found) until 50+, before then there's usually better Exp+cash spots. Charming is my favorite way to level, so if you have luck somewhere more power to you. Before CoM or HS, I had some luck in Burning Woods at the undead ruins (2 on map near Chardok), but had a better balance of Exp+cash in Wakening Lands. One of the best things about Necro is we can fear kite, charm kite, root rot.. tons of different ways to level so you never get bored. Necro is probably the best implemented 'jack of all trades' in Classic... which is why they saw so few changes when compared to other classes in Kunark and Velious.

[DMN]

CoS on the other hand is a game changer,

It doesn't change the game at all. It simplifies some aspects of solo charming. It's only redeeming value.You could use a gaz ring for charming, too and it would work just as well.

CoS allows you to spend 100% of the time you want to be invis, invis.

Wow, as opposed to 99.5% of the time with gather shadows, or 99.99 with skin?
.
Root rot in the middle of zones without fear of wanderers,

You will still be visible when casting spells.And you need to be someplace where things dont see through invis, which gets increasingly rare the higher level you get.


stand up immediately after a FD,

Only works on lowbie mobs and also requires they not see through invis of course. The hate list always wiping from FD was what made circlet so awesome back in the day. When that was nerfed the circlet simply became quite mediocre. The stats aren't good on it so its either taking up an bag slot or
BIS slot, too.


tons of uses for a CoS that every class would kill for.
.



I count one relevant thing.

[Vallanor]

Unlimited instant-cast invis from inventory is OP for every class, especially one with charm and FD. I'm astounded that you'd argue otherwise.

[DMN]

Unlimited instant-cast invis from inventory is OP for every class, especially one with charm and FD. I'm astounded that you'd argue otherwise.

I bet I'd be astounded by the all the things that manage to astound you.

[Colgate]

this guy's either putting in way too much effort to troll or he's actually a retard

well, in both cases he's a retard

[Crawdad]

Unlimited instant-cast invis from inventory is OP for every class, especially one with charm and FD. I'm astounded that you'd argue otherwise.

Best advice I can give you:


This message is hidden because DMN is on your ignore list.

[DMN]

this guy's either putting in way too much effort to troll or he's actually a retard

well, in both cases he's a retard

What a strong and compelling argument. I bet you are a lawyer in real life. Well, maybe as likable as a lawyer, at least.

[Faywind]

Well either he's too poor to afford the CoS (or beads) and is trying desperately to justify that it's "not that great" or he just doesn't know how to play the Necro class to it's fullest potential.

Also, possible troll :)

[DMN]

Well either he's too poor to afford the CoS (or beads) and is trying desperately to justify that it's "not that great" or he just doesn't know how to play the Necro class to it's fullest potential.

Also, possible troll :)

What kind of stupid necro would get something like beads instead of a zheart?

I've already thoroughly explained why the CoS is mediocre, at best, item. If you would like to address those points specifically, do so, or just stop posting in this thread because you don't seem to know what you are talking about.

Make no mistake this thread is full of shills trying to offload their farmed CoS for as much as they can.

[Kieu]

What a strong and compelling argument. I bet you are a lawyer in real life. Well, maybe as likable as a lawyer, at least.

I bet you're a retard in real life.

[DMN]

I bet you're a retard in real life.

If I'm retarded, wow. So many people getting schooled by a retard. Doesn't say a lot about some of the shills on this thread.

[username17]

DMN, does an Invis to Animals really break an undead charm? My necro isn't high enough to charm yet so I wasn't sure.
First time I've heard of this.

[DMN]

DMN, does an Invis to Animals really break an undead charm? My necro isn't high enough to charm yet so I wasn't sure.
First time I've heard of this.

Yes.

You can use invis, invis undad, invis animal.

You can often even use cancel magic, too. Which has some interesting and useful properties such as using roots more freely since cancel magic will almost always hit the top buff you can charm something first rooted and then blow the root off with cancel magic on your newly charmed pet. Frees up a slot and no longer need screaming teror up.

[username17]

Cool. Thanks for the info. Good to know.

[Izmael]

I find this topic fascinating because there's a distinct chance that DMN isn't trolling and is just being genuinely dumb, in which case he is a one-in-a-million occurrence of such quality retardation, at least on these forums, and deserves a lot more love.

[NegaStoat]

I originally made my necromancer out of nostalgia and 'missed chances' from playing old retail and always being curious about the class. My intent was to take it to where I could use the 49 pet and Splurt, use it as a farming character, and just enjoy it casually. For my purposes, getting a CoS along the way wasn't a consideration (although I probably should have as I had plenty of time before the nerf hit as an investment).

If my previous post downplayed the importance of the item, that wasn't my intention. Anyone playing a Necromancer that will ever even remotely consider splitting mobs on a pull using Feign Death, either for solo or for group use, would always in every case be better off having a CoS. It honestly does add a (small) extra dimension to the class, and anyone playing a Monk would KILL to have access to it. If you were in EC right now and patiently waited until two or three sellers of the pre nerf were advertising against each other during prime time, you could probably score one for a 7-8k offer "all plat, right now". If you play the character more than casually, you'd be an idiot not to.

[Jimjam]

I find this topic fascinating because there's a distinct chance that DMN isn't trolling and is just being genuinely dumb, in which case he is a one-in-a-million occurrence of such quality retardation, at least on these forums, and deserves a lot more love.

Have you heard of the Dunning-Kruger effect? Highly skilled persons underestimate their competence and fail to realise what is easy for them may be difficult for others (and vice-versa).

Clearly there is an inability of one side to understand the competence of the other.

DMN is correct, ANY kind of invis spell will break charm/kill summoned pets.

[DMN]

I originally made my necromancer out of nostalgia and 'missed chances' from playing old retail and always being curious about the class. My intent was to take it to where I could use the 49 pet and Splurt, use it as a farming character, and just enjoy it casually. For my purposes, getting a CoS along the way wasn't a consideration (although I probably should have as I had plenty of time before the nerf hit as an investment).

If my previous post downplayed the importance of the item, that wasn't my intention. Anyone playing a Necromancer that will ever even remotely consider splitting mobs on a pull using Feign Death, either for solo or for group use, would always in every case be better off having a CoS. It honestly does add a (small) extra dimension to the class, and anyone playing a Monk would KILL to have access to it. If you were in EC right now and patiently waited until two or three sellers of the pre nerf were advertising against each other during prime time, you could probably score one for a 7-8k offer "all plat, right now". If you play the character more than casually, you'd be an idiot not to.


unless you are slumming in a very low level zone, you cant use it for pulling because of the hate list wipe chance. Good god, quit saying this crap people. It's like you copy and pasted people sposts from 13 years ago before the hate wipe nerf on FD. Beginning to wonder if 90% of the people posting in this thread ever even played a necro over level 30. Sound like a bunch of noobs, necro or otherwise.

[Troxx]

DMN is an angry fella

[Llodd]

CoS is amazing. Would pay 50k if I had to. Would not pay 50k for beads.

[DMN]

CoS is amazing. Would pay 50k if I had to. Would not pay 50k for beads.

50k to save you from a couple seconds of cast time and pittance of mana while taking up your second best gear slot?

I guess you'd pay 50k for a teleport, then, ya?

[Colgate]

y u tryin so hard

[DMN]

y u tryin so hard

I'm not sure if knowing what you are talking about and not being a moron qualify as "trying hard". It would certainly explain some things about your posts, however.

[Izmael]

50k for an extra spell slot is dirt cheap.

[Spyder73]

The invis effect wipes your agro...I FD and pop up spamming CoS all the time, without it you are at a serious disadvantage. Not sure why you bring up other invis items when talking about CoS, doesnt take away from the fact that CoS still does the job and adds more utility than invis vs animal...Ring costs 3k? CoS cost 6k? Well worth the extra $$$

If you are seriously arguing that CoS merely "saves you a couple of seconds" then you have clearly never used one and have no idea what your talking about. When you break invis to recast invis and get agro, your f#cked. CoS eliminated this problem entirely and adds a agro wipe to FD

Why get a Zlandicar Heart? All it does is add a regen that is easily cast by multiple classes..

I will agree that Elder Beads are a waste on necro because you cant cast while pet us up - stalking probes much cheaper/better

CoS and Jboots are the 2 "must have" necro items IMO. Everything else is just a plus...Z heart is pretty wicked though

Source: Level 57 necro with Zlandicar Heart, Elder Beads, and CoS

[Spyder73]

Before one of you idiots says CoS invis doesn't wipe your agro - go test it and get back to me - because I have and it does.

EDIT: Think Monk and Sneak and you get the idea that goes on here with Necro

[Izmael]

Eye is good for reducing downtime, med up faster. When you're charm soloing often times you don't have a pet while you're recovering after a tough situation.

But I totally agree, CoS >>> Beads usefulness wise.

[Llodd]

50k to save you from a couple seconds of cast time and pittance of mana while taking up your second best gear slot?

I guess you'd pay 50k for a teleport, then, ya?

Maybe to the moon, sure.

I know you're a bit of a troll and all, but Gather Shadows is 5 secs, and CoS is castable from inventory, didnt you know that? No self respecting necro actually wears it except on encounters that require poison/disease or perhaps fashion quest. Has a funny look.

Cos has saved my life more times than I can remember. In situations where I would have died had I tried to cast the spell Gather Shadows.

[Danth]

Spyder73 is correct. Circlet from Feign (or Hide, albeit with less reliability) will memblur anything that can't see invisibility, regardless of level. It shouldn't, but it does, as does Sneak--hence why Sneak splitting is so easy on Project1999, as Spyder alluded to. This is easily confirmed in zones with a lot of aggressive high-level roamers that can't see through invisibility, like Western Wastes. Project1999 simply isn't the same as Live was in all cases. With a May 2016 join date, I surmise DMN isn't aware yet of all the differences between Project1999 and Live; his comments would've been correct for mid 2001-era Live EQ.

I could live without a circlet if I had to but it's nicer having one than not and (unlike Beads) the cost isn't out of reach of most players.

Danth

[Izmael]

Lol do you people realize that you can spam the CoS while running in a KoS place and never lose invis?

And that this is an ability only matched by rogues and bards?

[NegaStoat]

DMN didn't understand the mechanics of the instant invis w/ feign, or the mechanics of how instant invisbility actually works with a character in motion. He also didn't understand it was an inventory clickable item, and honestly thought it would take up the head slot for its use.

Confirmed troll, so I'll use his words to describe the situation.
Sound like I'm a noob, necro or otherwise.

[DMN]

Lol do you people realize that you can spam the CoS while running in a KoS place and never lose invis?

And that this is an ability only matched by rogues and bards?

hey look the same guy spamming the same dumb garbage. how many circlets you got on mules, shiller?


DMN didn't understand the mechanics of the instant invis w/ feign, or the mechanics of how instant invisbility actually works with a character in motion. He also didn't understand it was an inventory clickable item, and honestly thought it would take up the head slot for its use.

Confirmed troll, so I'll use his words to describe the situation.

Aggro will not be wiped, it will reaggro if the hate list was not wiped when you next break invisibility.

[NegaStoat]

Spyder73 is correct. Circlet from Feign (or Hide, albeit with less reliability) will memblur anything that can't see invisibility, regardless of level.

Danth above has what happens involving a feign/CoS use in rapid succession correctly. And it's not a server bug either.

" See now theres this thing, ya all seem to think the coolest part of this is being able to invis while something is standing over you right after standing up from feign and it not getting agro...yer missing the BEST part. The invis is FASTER then that, if you time it JUST right (hitting stand and invis buttons at ALMOST the exact same time...) and said mob doesnt see invis....it will never register you stood up at all until invis breaks. you go from conning indif to conning indif so fast it thinks yer still feigned. "

Morzain from http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=26038

That is exactly how it's worked on retail servers ever since the item launched with Kunark. I might not own one here, but I did own one on Brell Serellis (briefly) on a SK so I knew what to expect.

[DMN]

Did you miss the whole" until invis breaks" and later not includd in your quote ".very handy for making quick getaways prior to the feign death changes."

[Skinned]

50k to save you from a couple seconds of cast time and pittance of mana while taking up your second best gear slot?

I guess you'd pay 50k for a teleport, then, ya?

Lol you don't have to wear it. It clicks from the inventory like jboots.

Have you ever owned one? Or just bashing out of a reaction formation?

[Vallanor]

Aggro will not be wiped, it will reaggro if the hate list was not wiped when you next break invisibility.

Even a temporary mem blur is objectively useful, no? Combine with the fact it permanently frees up a slot for a different spell, and you've got an insanely useful item. I can't even take advantage of the mem blur aspect, but I would gladly buy one for my wizard if it were an option.

But please, continue arguing that it's not a great item despite clearly never having used one.