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Daldaen
05-10-2016, 11:41 PM
I've spoken with the largest guild entities on this server and we have come to an agreement. The goal of the agreement was to prevent the quest from turning into a spam-clicking air which quests like this tend to lean towards.

The agreement is basically:

When Badain spawns on your turn, you have up to 24-hours to start your war. After that it is up for anyone to turn in. If you miss your turn that still counts as your turn in the rotation.
Guilds will provide the rough spawn time to the next guild in the rotation, so that they have a rough idea of when he will spawn so they can plan accordingly.


The current rotation is:

1. CSG
2. Awakened
3. Aftermath

CSG did their turn in the rotation on Sunday, Awakened did their turn in the rotation tonight (Tuesday), Aftermath will be due for their Badain on Friday/Saturday depending on spawn.

Any guild/entity wishing to entering the rotation are free to contact any guild in the rotation. If you want to take a shot at the ring war, let us know and you can likely get fit into the next spawn of Badain, if not the next spawn the following one should work. If you succeed and like the idea of rotating it, we are happy to add you into the rotation.

A new guild entering or doing an attempt on the war, will simply push back the rotation and not make the guild currently up, lose their turn.

bktroost
05-11-2016, 12:48 AM
For guilds that are trying to decide if this is an achievable goal for you, I highly encourage you to give it a shot. In order to better inform your judgment, CSG has not succeeded with less than 1500 parsable melee dps per mob. There are all sorts of benchmarks you can inquire about from the other two guilds, but unless we have significant aoe dps, CSG looks for that level of performance before starting a war. Vindi is a great mob to parse your raid composition on and figure out where you are in terms of readiness.

Hit up aftermath and awakened for more tips. I'm sure they are full of insider information.

Detoxx
06-08-2016, 07:03 PM
Rotation is now over, thanks to Awakened. They decided to leap frog our turn in right before we turned in. Sorry fellas. I had informed CSG we planned on doing the ringwar tonight and as we were gathering, they turned in with 10 in zone. Even if we had gone past the 24hr mark, it would be CSGs turn for the next war, not them.

Welcome to spam clicking air guys!

Breaken
06-08-2016, 07:08 PM
You can try to blame us, but you had a whole 24 Hours. You did not do it in those 24 Hours. This was specifically addressed in the first post.

When Badain spawns on your turn, you have up to 24-hours to start your war. After that it is up for anyone to turn in. If you miss your turn that still counts as your turn in the rotation.

Detoxx
06-08-2016, 07:15 PM
You can try to blame us, but you had a whole 24 Hours. You did not do it in those 24 Hours. This was specifically addressed in the first post.

Situation was handled, were good now. Ty

Culkasi
07-07-2016, 04:52 AM
bump for this - someone suggest a restart order/date :)

Edit:

Looks like Awakened did ring war last night, so guess Aftermath is up next!

Detoxx
07-08-2016, 04:06 PM
Works for us!

Detoxx
10-01-2016, 03:16 PM
Ring War Rotation has ended, Awakened handed in earlier than the 24 hours allotted from when Sentry Badain spawns.

All ring wars going forward will be FFA!

Good luck all!

Breaken
10-01-2016, 05:24 PM
I'm sorry you feel the need to blame us for this but it was in fact Rustle who broke all rotations. They are the ones who decided to take our Veeshan's Peak yesterday, breaking all rotations they are involved in, per Getsome. I am not currently home, but I will supply quotes from a conversation had between you and Getsome saying exactly this.

I agree with you, it is very unfortunate that Rustle could not contain themselves, but I suggest you speak with them before crying about Awakened.

Ella`Ella
10-01-2016, 05:35 PM
I'm sorry you feel the need to blame us for this but it was in fact Rustle who broke all rotations. They are the ones who decided to take our Veeshan's Peak yesterday, breaking all rotations they are involved in, per Getsome. I am not currently home, but I will supply quotes from a conversation had between you and Getsome saying exactly this.

I agree with you, it is very unfortunate that Rustle could not contain themselves, but I suggest you speak with them before crying about Awakened.

What does Rustle breaking a rotation in VP have anything to do with Awakened breaking a Ring War rotation?

Is this not the same exact behavior/argument that Taken made when IB violated a Noble agreement and was chastised by the server for the same behavior?

Ella`Ella
10-01-2016, 07:04 PM
I'm sorry you feel the need to blame us for this but it was in fact Rustle who broke all rotations. They are the ones who decided to take our Veeshan's Peak yesterday, breaking all rotations they are involved in, per Getsome. I am not currently home, but I will supply quotes from a conversation had between you and Getsome saying exactly this.

I agree with you, it is very unfortunate that Rustle could not contain themselves, but I suggest you speak with them before crying about Awakened.

Breaken, I am trying to reconcile your claims of Getsome suggesting that all rotations would be broken if Rustle advanced on VP, but I am having difficulty. The only record of the conversation that I have is posted below. I've asked for a specific mention of where Getsome makes the statement that you are claiming, but I've been told that such does not exist?

Please see below.

Breaken
10-01-2016, 07:45 PM
I apologize, as I am still out. My logs of that exact same chat channel are from about two or so weeks ago, where Getsome says.. and i am paraphrasing.. one rotation, all rotations.. they are all the same to me.

This was in reply of the VP rotation possibly ending, as said by Detoxx.

bktroost
10-02-2016, 01:03 AM
I believe rustle agreed to go very last in a 4 way rotation on VP if we'd all like to add some sensibility back into the world. I mean... ToV and VP and everything other than Tunare being in the same window means everyone's going to work really hard here to get less pixels than ever.

I'm a fan of spending more quality time in RL with friends and families AND spending more quality time in game killing things rather than staring at a /pet attack chat or Skype screen. (not that I use Skype for that #dumb)

Pint
10-02-2016, 10:25 AM
Why don't we just let them in the vp rotation, this is silly.

bktroost
10-02-2016, 12:35 PM
Why don't we just let them in the vp rotation, this is silly.

If that was the official opinion of awakened I think we can fix all this right now, right here.

Breaken
10-02-2016, 03:43 PM
[9/8/2016 5:28:45 PM] Detoxx Blooddrunk: Well the vp rotation, judging by the last few comments, will not be remaining for much longer it seems
[9/8/2016 5:30:58 PM] Detoxx Blooddrunk: And in turn the Traktor rot
[9/8/2016 5:32:11 PM] Getsome: And the ring :(
[9/8/2016 5:33:34 PM] Detoxx Blooddrunk: What's the ring Gotta do with it?
[9/8/2016 5:35:42 PM] Detoxx Blooddrunk: Here's the thing
[9/8/2016 5:35:52 PM] Detoxx Blooddrunk: As much as I do not want to say this
[9/8/2016 5:36:27 PM] Detoxx Blooddrunk: That vp rotation goes, because although I could swing a 4 way rot, i almost guarantee awakened will not
[9/8/2016 5:36:33 PM] Detoxx Blooddrunk: They will kill all of it
[9/8/2016 5:36:41 PM] Detoxx Blooddrunk: They just have a bigger roster and more alts
[9/8/2016 5:36:44 PM] Detoxx Blooddrunk: So think carefully
[9/8/2016 5:37:09 PM] Getsome: When Windows overlap vp is lucky to get one tracker.
[9/8/2016 5:37:50 PM] Getsome: It's all the same to me. One rotation or all.

This conversation started because Detoxx was trying to work out an agreement to have a 24 Hour grace period on Statue FTE. Rustle and CSG had nothing to gain by this, and in fact felt (probably correctly) that they would see less Avatar kills from this change. The reason being that Awakened and Aftermath wouldn't need to call on them if they could wait until prime time every time.

Rustle was willing to allow this 24 Hour period if there was a rotation on Statue.

[9/8/2016 5:13:53 PM] Getsome: Rustle is here for the easy pixels. If it's rotated we can work in that system and respect the guilds claim

To which I gave Awakened's stance:

[9/8/2016 5:23:31 PM] Breaken Bad: We aren't interested in rotating more mobs right now

We were okay with the numerous rotations we had in place, but rotating more mobs is not what we are interested in. Especially when they constantly get broken.

bktroost
10-02-2016, 04:45 PM
I told Detoxx that CSG would be willing to discuss adding a 24 hour clause for Statue/avatar if we could get a 4-way on VP.

Really, anything to make the game more humane, i'm willing to sit down and discuss.

Detoxx
10-03-2016, 05:35 PM
[9/8/2016 5:28:45 PM] Detoxx Blooddrunk: Well the vp rotation, judging by the last few comments, will not be remaining for much longer it seems
[9/8/2016 5:30:58 PM] Detoxx Blooddrunk: And in turn the Traktor rot
[9/8/2016 5:32:11 PM] Getsome: And the ring :(
[9/8/2016 5:33:34 PM] Detoxx Blooddrunk: What's the ring Gotta do with it?
[9/8/2016 5:35:42 PM] Detoxx Blooddrunk: Here's the thing
[9/8/2016 5:35:52 PM] Detoxx Blooddrunk: As much as I do not want to say this
[9/8/2016 5:36:27 PM] Detoxx Blooddrunk: That vp rotation goes, because although I could swing a 4 way rot, i almost guarantee awakened will not
[9/8/2016 5:36:33 PM] Detoxx Blooddrunk: They will kill all of it
[9/8/2016 5:36:41 PM] Detoxx Blooddrunk: They just have a bigger roster and more alts
[9/8/2016 5:36:44 PM] Detoxx Blooddrunk: So think carefully
[9/8/2016 5:37:09 PM] Getsome: When Windows overlap vp is lucky to get one tracker.
[9/8/2016 5:37:50 PM] Getsome: It's all the same to me. One rotation or all.

This conversation started because Detoxx was trying to work out an agreement to have a 24 Hour grace period on Statue FTE. Rustle and CSG had nothing to gain by this, and in fact felt (probably correctly) that they would see less Avatar kills from this change. The reason being that Awakened and Aftermath wouldn't need to call on them if they could wait until prime time every time.

Rustle was willing to allow this 24 Hour period if there was a rotation on Statue.

[9/8/2016 5:13:53 PM] Getsome: Rustle is here for the easy pixels. If it's rotated we can work in that system and respect the guilds claim

To which I gave Awakened's stance:

[9/8/2016 5:23:31 PM] Breaken Bad: We aren't interested in rotating more mobs right now

We were okay with the numerous rotations we had in place, but rotating more mobs is not what we are interested in. Especially when they constantly get broken.

By constantly get broken you mean never get broken until you decided 30 days wasn't enough time to discuss a 4 way rotation? Considering you're one of the people to break a rotation, those are some empty words.

I am, and always have been, willing to work out anything to make this server better for everyone who plays on the top end. It's an uphill battle getting you and yours to agree to anything and, as we all know, it takes us both (Awakened and Aftermath) to make anything work.

I'm ready to work things out between all 4 top raiding entities...are you?

bktroost
10-04-2016, 12:39 AM
Getsome - Today 12:06 PM
> Maybe we could agree to a ceasefire on other fronts while you negotiating with happy. That would be an easy ice breaker and calm period needed.

So is Rustle. There's three people a sitting at the table of change. One seat waiting to be filled.

Breaken
10-04-2016, 08:13 AM
Maybe we could agree to a ceasefire on other fronts

I have to assume this is in reference to the Ring War. So, it's okay to break the VP Rotation, but the Ring War is completely different?

I guess I should requote:
[9/8/2016 5:33:34 PM] Detoxx Blooddrunk: What's the ring Gotta do with it?
[9/8/2016 5:37:50 PM] Getsome: It's all the same to me. One rotation or all.



There's three people a sitting at the table of change. One seat waiting to be filled.

I am right here. I am in Skype. I am in the rotation chat. No one has contacted me. Instead, Getsome is contacting Nemce (and/or vis versa) and Nemce is contacting Happyhealz (and/or vis versa). It doesn't seem like much of a table. More like a middle school playground.

I would be happy to work on these rotation relations, but as I was not the one who demanded change, I don't believe I have much to add right now.

One thing I could add is, if you want to bring any rotation back, I suggest fixing the damage that was done. That means giving Awakened their VP that was taken from them, and giving Aftermath their Ring War that was taken from them. And possibly one on top for the hassle.

But I guess asking for that would come off as acting superior, even though it is just common sense.

Pint
10-04-2016, 08:58 AM
Why don't we just shelve everyone's ego, put rustle on the vp rotation and pick back up where we should have. Problem meet solution, don't drag this out.

bktroost
10-04-2016, 09:28 AM
One thing I could add is, if you want to bring any rotation back, I suggest fixing the damage that was done. That means giving Awakened their VP that was taken from them, and giving Aftermath their Ring War that was taken from them. And possibly one on top for the hassle.

What? Of course that's something we could talk about. ALL things are on the table. Everything is possible.

I was trying to get a definite from Happyhealz that whatever rep we started negotiations with again would not get upset and just leave the skype channel before coming to a resolution. I didn't want to invest my time into something that was going to get blown up by someone not really interested in discussion.

Sometimes negotiations get aggressive and that's a tactic. And yes, asking for recompense after the fact is also a tactic. To think that any of this is indicative of some systemic personal vendetta is ludicrous. It's good to hear that we are all interested in sitting down again.

I'll start up the skype channel and we'll see where we go.

raato
10-04-2016, 09:31 AM
common sense

Would be giving all parties able to do VP solo their own slot in the VP rotation if rotation is something everyone wants and not force 90-110 players share VP slot. Or maybe A/As moving completely out from old expansions contents (or atleast do it less often) since it really doesnt make much sense seeing both gearing up alts (under 50lvl sometimes) and mainly farming VP for the top dollar spells to fund recharges just because "they can" in trade for making raid environment really poor place for majority of people that actually want to raid that content.

But I don't have much say in these negotiations, just pointing out that this whole situation is so far from common sense.

I guess whole discussion could have been handled differently, but diplomacy doesnt seem to be strong side of anyone on this server.

Ella`Ella
10-04-2016, 12:48 PM
I have to assume this is in reference to the Ring War. So, it's okay to break the VP Rotation, but the Ring War is completely different?

I guess I should requote:
[9/8/2016 5:33:34 PM] Detoxx Blooddrunk: What's the ring Gotta do with it?
[9/8/2016 5:37:50 PM] Getsome: It's all the same to me. One rotation or all.


Hey Breaken, I noticed there are several lines of dialogue missing from where you quoted Getsome above. I'm not sure if youre able to post the rest or I can post the screenshot later if you'd like - I'm just out at the moment.

However, the bottom line here is that if you have any interest in maintaining/reinstating a rotation, it seems all other parties are interested so we can skip a lot of the public politicking here.

Ella`Ella
10-04-2016, 05:04 PM
For a bit of context - the conversation was about VP rotation and discussing which cycle the new rotation would start on and how long it would go for from Getsomre's perspective - his feeling on the matter was whether it's on this VP rotation or all of the VP Rotations going forward was all the same to Rustle.

http://i.imgur.com/gRudleg.jpg

paroxysmal
01-02-2017, 01:34 AM
Fires/Venerate/Anon would like an attempt. Please let me know when we could be worked in.

Thanks

Pan
01-02-2017, 09:39 AM
Fires/Venerate/Anon would like an attempt. Please let me know when we could be worked in.

Thanks

Being discussed. Think there's the thought that the "barrier to entry" should be low/non-existent.

Getting everyone to weigh in/buy in takes some time but I don't get the sense that anyone would object.

Caveat would probably be same for you as it is for those rotating: kill within 24 hours of your spawn.

When were you thinking? Been some discussion about putting in those wanting to try at the end of whatever the current cycle is (meaning you'd be 4th/5th on current list). (3-day spawn, btw, so worst case 2 weeks out)

Upshot is I think there's goodwill to get this done. I, for one, encourage it.

Detoxx
01-02-2017, 12:08 PM
I have no issues with it, just throw them at the end of the rotation is fine with me.

Kiix
01-22-2017, 02:34 PM
when is the end of the rotation so ven/foh could take a shot at this?

Breaken
01-22-2017, 05:28 PM
The current rotation is:

CSG
Awakened
Aftermath
Rustle

Next spawn is Aftermath's. They will do it either today or tomorrow I assume. If you want to go after Rustle, it would probably be around Monday, give or take.

Kiix
01-22-2017, 06:44 PM
OK thanks

Pan
01-23-2017, 08:14 PM
The current rotation is:

CSG
Awakened
Aftermath
Rustle

Next spawn is Aftermath's. They will do it either today or tomorrow I assume. If you want to go after Rustle, it would probably be around Monday, give or take.

"Going to the back of the line" really means going before aftermath's next turn (the one after "today or tomorrow") .

That said, I don't mind putting them after Rustle. They've been waiting a good while.

Detoxx
01-27-2017, 10:26 PM
Rustle did theirs yesterday? Are we squeezing in F/V now?

Culkasi
01-31-2017, 03:56 AM
Looks like FV did it today yes, so we're next

Kiix
01-31-2017, 08:03 AM
With it being a success does that give us a spot in rotation?

Culkasi
01-31-2017, 08:06 AM
With it being a success does that give us a spot in rotation?

Congratulations! Not small feat to win on your first attempt :)

Yes, I believe you have a spot if you want a spot, its yours, under same rules etc as rest.



When Badain spawns on your turn, you have up to 24-hours to start your war. After that it is up for anyone to turn in. If you miss your turn that still counts as your turn in the rotation.
Guilds will provide the rough spawn time to the next guild in the rotation, so that they have a rough idea of when he will spawn so they can plan accordingly.

Kiix
01-31-2017, 08:10 AM
Thanks! We had a lot of fun. Will we be after rustle then in rotation?

paroxysmal
01-31-2017, 09:12 AM
Sounds reasonable. Thanks all for the shot and the spot.

Culkasi
02-17-2017, 06:46 AM
Just for prosterity, here is the new order

CSG
Awakened
Aftermath
Rustle
FoH/V

raato
04-21-2017, 04:08 PM
Guilds will provide the rough spawn time to the next guild in the rotation, so that they have a rough idea of when he will spawn so they can plan accordingly.

Is FoH/Ven still doing Ring Wars? CSG hasn't gotten any info about spawn times last 2-3 cycles afaik and we have had to swing it with batphones without planning and that's not acceptable.

paroxysmal
04-21-2017, 05:12 PM
We haven't been getting any info passed on to us about spawn time either afaik. We usually have people watching for the spawn.

We do it every time it is our turn and have always been successful as I'm sure you are aware raato.

raato
04-21-2017, 05:17 PM
We haven't been getting any info passed on to us about spawn time either afaik. We usually have people watching for the spawn.

We do it every time it is our turn and have always been successful as I'm sure you are aware raato.

Well actually I wasn't aware if you still do it or not, havent been paying much attention.

Its part of the agreement to deliver spawn timer to next one on the cycle, so I would appreciate if you could pass it to some CSG officer in skype or PM it to me on forums.

Saves alot time and effort if everyone could do this.

paroxysmal
04-21-2017, 05:19 PM
In the words of culkasi, "I'll do my best to let you guys know..."

Kiix
04-21-2017, 05:20 PM
last few times there has been somebody from csg getting faction. I will send you the information when we are done with it.

raato
04-21-2017, 05:39 PM
In the words of culkasi, "I'll do my best to let you guys know..."

If you are referring to Plane of Sky, we are doing it every 1st and 2nd Monday of the month for now. Now you know.

Also, letting next raid entity know ring war trigger spawn timer is part of the rotation agreement. I'm sure you want to follow the agreement since you want to be part of it, right?

paroxysmal
04-21-2017, 06:10 PM
Just like any player-made agreement. It only works if everyone makes it work.

We could discuss the courtesies of the player-made sky rotation/time slot agreement in a new thread if you would like.

getsome
04-22-2017, 12:33 AM
We haven't been getting any info passed on to us about spawn time either afaik. We usually have people watching for the spawn.

We do it every time it is our turn and have always been successful as I'm sure you are aware raato.

http://i.imgur.com/7GlvG7C.png

Pan
07-26-2017, 04:26 PM
Spoke with Snackies of Rustle. They're going to go on hiatus for now...and let us know when they're ready to take their spot again.

So the rotation order, I think, is:

Amath
CSG
Awak

We (CSG) just ate Rustle's spot (they passed) in the last cycle, so Awak is up.

Also, who locks these threads and why? Seems one thread for the agreement would be a good idea.

Also, I've got it in my head to throw (lead) a serverwide open ringwar. Zone can only support 100 or so people so we'd need to be selective on who was there and why. But I thought we could random among people who are in guilds that are not ringwar-capable for the 10 award - and random the other awards among those who could use.

Awak/Amath, this idea okay with you? Would like to schedule it a couple weeks in advance.

(From Snackies in skype on 24 July: as far as the ring war is concerned, i'm fine with it consolidating down to you three guys as long as I can just drop you guys a line and be added to the last spot on the list to give it a go again)

Llandris
07-26-2017, 04:55 PM
Also, who locks these threads and why? Seems one thread for the agreement would be a good idea.

Threads lock automatically if there are no new posts after a certain period of time, 3 months I believe

Detoxx
09-03-2017, 10:54 AM
Aftermath is no longer a part of this agreement. Getting suspended because the other guilds involved can't be bothered to track their own timers is utterly out of control.

Good Luck!

Breaken
09-03-2017, 11:20 AM
I don't believe it has anything to do with CSG not tracking their war, but instead, has everything to do with you capitalizing on your miscommunication.

Awakened agreed to assist CSG in making it right by swapping wars with them. You chose to kill it. Cloki can go into more detail if he wants, but to act as if this was an injustice is a joke. You knowingly didn't give them notice and then took it from them.

If you want to leave the rotation, that is your choice, but it has been a successful agreement, and I know that the staff likes it. They even made a provision to allow suspended guilds to do theirs.

I think it is the wrong choice.

Detoxx
09-03-2017, 11:27 AM
I have not gotten a single timer from either you or CSG. We do our own diligence and get a time of the Ring war or simply ask when it's our turn.

I will not agree to an agreement where I need to track someone else's mobs and be at risk for ramifications if said guild can't be bothered to track their own then cry when they miss out.

GL going forward.

Breaken
09-03-2017, 11:34 AM
You do not need to track someone else's mob. You need to tell them that you triggered it. Again, to my knowledge, you got hit because you capitalized on not telling them the timer. If you simply did not give them the timer, but then left the Ring War up for them to have time to plan it, I fully believe you would not have been suspended.

Forgetting to give a timer is minimal. It can be worked out. Using the fact that you didn't give them the timer to then take their war is not as minimal.

Detoxx
09-03-2017, 12:29 PM
You do not need to track someone else's mob. You need to tell them that you triggered it. Again, to my knowledge, you got hit because you capitalized on not telling them the timer. If you simply did not give them the timer, but then left the Ring War up for them to have time to plan it, I fully believe you would not have been suspended.

Forgetting to give a timer is minimal. It can be worked out. Using the fact that you didn't give them the timer to then take their war is not as minimal.

We took your war and you petitioned. At least admit it. I was not afforded the opportunity to work it out by you and you can expect the same from me going forward.

I will not agree to the above terms as written, if we want to try to make a new one thats fine, until then we are out of this rotation.

Breaken
09-03-2017, 12:36 PM
You took CSG's war. After they couldn't get numbers quick enough due to no notice, I offered to swap wars with them, so they could have the proper 3 days notice. Instead, you killed it.

What part of this do you not understand?

Detoxx
09-03-2017, 01:19 PM
You took CSG's war. After they couldn't get numbers quick enough due to no notice, I offered to swap wars with them, so they could have the proper 3 days notice. Instead, you killed it.

What part of this do you not understand?

We did not agree to the swap. This is not something that was outlined as part of the agreement. This Badain was up for 2 days, ample time to plan on CSGs part. Switching isnt an acceptable solution.