Are Multiple Raid Instances Possible?

[Dinbin]

First off, I know I'm "Johnny Come Lately". Let's get that out of the way.

I'm only now catching up on the chatter (and vitriol) that seems to be part of the HL raid scene, though it will be a long time before that becomes an issue for me.

It certainly appears (and I know I'm stating the obvious) that the accumulation of high level characters has lead to a ridiculously congested high end game. Every raid mob is effectively camped either by a toon, or by associated bureaucracy.

Given that I don't know what kind of hardware is required to run the EQ world as it stands; how feasible are instanced raid zones? Is it "classic"? No, but neither is 50% of your population at raid-level, which is where we sit. "classic" EQ was the population spread out across two dozen server worlds... I doubt any had as much raid congestion as I'm seeing (albeit based on threads) here.

Is there any dev discussion on this? Or is it a flat no?

[Tewaz]

They made a new raid instance, it's called Project 1999 Red (PVP).

[xKoopa]

No. Thats what phinny is for

[Dinbin]

They made a new raid instance, it's called Project 1999 Red (PVP).I keep hearing that answer, but I don't think it means what you think it means... That's only 2 instances, total, really. One that is shared by 1000 people, and one that is shared by 200, maybe.

Also, I played PvP the first time around (RZ) and was part of that raiding scene. The PvP elements added more risk (and the inability to use AoE's) what with multiple guilds fighting over areas, but generally the MUCH lower number of people at raid levels is what made it more "raidable"... nothing else. There were less people there because it was "harder" to get to raid level.

I suspect RED is the same way here... it only seems more raidable because it's less populated. And that's the point of instanced raid zones. Less people in one area.

[Tewaz]

It is more raidable because of less population.

You can hit raid level on Red in 3 weeks. Probably can't do 1-35 on blue in that time if you get on after all the exp groups form.

[Dinbin]

It is more raidable because of less population. You can hit raid level on Red in 3 weeks. Probably can't do 1-35 on blue in that time if you get on after all the exp groups form.Exactly. Blue doesn't have a way to spread those people out other than instancing or server splitting.

[Evia]

I've never ever ever ever been a fan of instances. However blue has the most atrocious raid scene ever. It's brought even me to be a little softer on the idea of it. I know we will likely never see it on p99 due to it being unclassic. However like you said, what is going on now isn't really classic either. It's far too congested and top heavy.

[Priceline]

Is there any dev discussion on this? Or is it a flat no?

Flat no, server ends with Velious.. Live EQ didn't have raid instances during this era so neither will we.

Phinigel is really the only option for a partially classic EQ server that also has instancing

[Haynar]

No to instances.

Not Classic.

Haynar

[Dinbin]

Counterpoint: Server splitting is classic.

[Tewaz]

Real counterpoint: Up respawns to 7 times current value with 3 hour variance.

[Dinbin]

Real counterpoint: Up respawns to 7 times current value with 3 hour variance.
That might or might not solve the issue, but it's not classic, is it?

[nyclin]

No to instances.

Not Classic.

Haynar

Variance on spawn times is classic?

[fugazi]

I've never ever ever ever been a fan of instances. However blue has the most atrocious raid scene ever. It's brought even me to be a little softer on the idea of it. I know we will likely never see it on p99 due to it being unclassic. However like you said, what is going on now isn't really classic either. It's far too congested and top heavy.

The accumulated debris of Velious being delayed forever, plat and item duping, Chardok powerleveling, endless accounts per player for unlimited characters and multi-player accessibility together with the fact that everything about EQ is already known made P1999's raiding scene a trainwreck. Even leveling has become a joke what with the cheap available super items and the ridiculous amounts of fungi twinks out there.

Instancing would indeed dampen the pain, but I think that only a server split and or reboot would truly fix it.

.. but yeah, I'm beating a dead horse.

[Tewaz]

What is happening is less classic than an amped spawn time.

If classic EQ would've lasted 3+ years and Kunark for another 3, I think the answer from Sony would have been increased spawn times.

Truly classic server would be a fresh reset server.

1 account per person. Maybe allow a second account after completion of Velious timeline.
Delete the wiki and any references to anything in EQ
Limit everyone's max connection speed to the server
No windowed mode
Original UI

This won't happen, this isn't a classic server anyways, but its still awesome.

So many people burn out in Blue's raid scene, so why not change it for the better? Instancing and making all loot no drop seems the best idea, but it won't happen.

Most classic answer is increased respawn.

[Dinbin]

What is happening is less classic than an amped spawn time.My only worry with increased spawn time is that we'd have the same problem, just hyper-fast... the same guilds re-camping the same mobs over and over. You'd have to implement lockout timers...

There's no doubt that some sort of compromise would have to be made (as has occurred with the UI). If we were in this situation in classic EQ, they'd split the server, for sure. Our issue with that might be the lack of overall volume... you'd have two servers half-empty of level 1-55's...

I too am not a fan of instancing, generally... it tends to "commoditize" raiding a bit too much and takes away the social aspect, but I can see how it would be one way to fix our problem... our issue is simply a crowding issue, at its most basic.

[Tewaz]

The hope behind hyper respawns is people would "win" EQ faster and move on to other things. As of right now, a lot of people raid to block others from content, which is hilariously depressing.

[Dinbin]

The hope behind hyper respawns is people would "win" EQ faster and move on to other things. As of right now, a lot of people raid to block others from content, which is hilariously depressing.
If that's true (and I have no idea if it is or isn't), that IS pretty sad. Faster respawns WOULD be the easiest technically, I admit. The current solution appears to be "suffer until you quit", which is something I'm not looking forward to. :D

[maskedmelon]

Green99 will launch in due time. Remain patient friend.

[Priceline]

^^another problem with instancing is that this is EQ.. If you look at phini everyone and there mother has epics and VP loot. The part I loved about classic was not everyone could get epics and other shiny loot.. Only if you got into a big raiding guild and in the massive amount of time and effort.

If they ever allow instanced raids here they might as well copy WoWs "looking for raid" feature so you can instantly appear before the raid boss and hit face on keyboard for phat lewtz

[Dinbin]

Green99 will launch in due time. Remain patient friend.
Que es eso?
^^another problem with instancing is that this is EQ.. If you look at phini everyone and there mother has epics and VP loot. The part I loved about classic was not everyone could get epics and other shiny loot.. Only if you got into a big raiding guild and in the massive amount of time and effort.
I dunno, epics (even on RZ) took a few groups and some coordination, yes, but you didn't have to be an uber raiding guild. And I see tons of epics on Blue... the level of gear here is MUCH higher than I ever saw on the original servers. (Again, might have been because I was on RZ).
If they ever allow instanced raids here they might as well copy WoWs "looking for raid" feature so you can instantly appear before the raid boss and hit face on keyboard for phat lewtz
That would be my worry, yes. I guess the way you'd implement it is either with numbered instances ("Zone to Nagafen's Lair 1, 2 or 3?") that have their own respawn timers, at it's simplest. ("We're in 3, guys!")

Again, kinda moot because we're not in charge nor do we run the hardware, but there must be some alternatives...

[Scrapiron]

What about something like this.... I know its not classic so it won't happen but bear with me

Upon successfully dropping X raid target all members of the raid should be inflicted/blessed with the buff/debuff of "X Slayer" where the characters get flagged with that Title Suffix. The catch being that said character can not damage X again for a set amount of time, set the effect to persist through death, and even tailor the time limits based on the mob.

Thoughts?

[maskedmelon]

Que es eso?



それはね、





ひ。。。



み。。。



つ！














Not really though. It has been discussed that once Velious has run its course, the development team may release a "green" server that will follow a true classic timeline. Once it has run its course, it would be dumped into the blue server and "recycled" with a wipe and fresh classic launch. I have chose. To take this as gospel and you should too. Have faith!

[Dinbin]

Upon successfully dropping X raid target all members of the raid should be inflicted/blessed with the buff/debuff of "X Slayer" where the characters get flagged with that Title Suffix. The catch being that said character can not damage X again for a set amount of time, set the effect to persist through death, and even tailor the time limits based on the mob.

Thoughts?
*nods* That's effectively a lockout timer, and could work. You kill Naggy, YOU can't kill him again for N days. Doesn't stop your alts from doing it, though... :P Or it's account-wide?
Not really though. It has been discussed that once Velious has run its course, the development team may release a "green" server that will follow a true classic timeline. Once it has run its course, it would be dumped into the blue server and "recycled" with a wipe and fresh classic launch. I have chose. To take this as gospel and you should too. Have faith!
Interesting... the effect I could see this having is hardcore folks are "distracted" by the green for the time it takes them to level and raid a bit before they come back. That might free up the blue for lighter guilds a bit more, in theory... rinse, repeat.

Again, blue-skying this.

[Ravager]

^^another problem with instancing is that this is EQ.. If you look at phini everyone and there mother has epics and VP loot. The part I loved about classic was not everyone could get epics and other shiny loot.. Only if you got into a big raiding guild and in the massive amount of time and effort.


The massive amount of time was never to these extremes and it's not so much effort when everything is killed in under 5 minutes by training away the content and throwing 20 rogues and 10 clerics at it all. Even the path to 60 has been trivialized for years on end with Chardok.

Interesting... the effect I could see this having is hardcore folks are "distracted" by the green for the time it takes them to level and raid a bit before they come back. That might free up the blue for lighter guilds a bit more, in theory... rinse, repeat.


Green server won't help at all since both servers would just be boxed and it won't be any harder for guilds to park buffed and screen share on blue while they play Green just like they play any of there 20 alts on blue.

[Nibblewitz]

Instancing bad! Poop-socking good!

Now go kill the prime minister of Malaysia, Derek.

[maskedmelon]

Well, then there is the less tangible promise of Purple99. That most certainly would yield a favorable result.

[Dinbin]

Well, then there is the less tangible promise of Purple99. That most certainly would yield a favorable result.
Now you're just messing with me. :D

[maskedmelon]

PVP Teams server. Though that is a less remote possibility. An FFA "discord" style pvp server has been on the horizon for sometime (listed on the main page even), but a teams server has received less discussion than the "green" recycle server or potential custom content.

[Llandris]

Variance on spawn times is classic?

Yes.

See https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242181

[Dinbin]

Yes.
See https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242181
I believe we were talking about INCREASED spawn rate, not reduced variance (which doesn't change the number of spawns, really).

[Trungep99]

no instancing; it won't be classic if they did it. It would also kill the end game scene if all competition were to go away; basically every guild would then kill e very raid target & thus it would make the end game boring and people wouldn't keep going afterit for very long

[Tewaz]

So I guess fighting to engage a mob is the only true joy left in Blue raiding since all the fights are super easy.

[Ravager]

no instancing; it won't be classic if they did it. It would also kill the end game scene if all competition were to go away; basically every guild would then kill e very raid target & thus it would make the end game boring and people wouldn't keep going afterit for very long

For the vast majority of players here, they don't go after it now, because the end game is already boring.

[silo32]

They made a new raid instance, it's called Project 1999 Red (PVP).

this

red has all the mobs you struggle to fight for with trackers up near 24/7

log in with quad xp you lvl to 60 in less than a month, then kill and get all those pixels you will never obtain on blue

so what you might die a few times on red but we will make men out of you

[Daldaen]

Add Vex Thal only. Make a portal from ToV in Vulak's room to VT.

Prevent porting out of VT. Only zone out is in Aten Ha Ra's room.

Boom you just sucked all the mains and some secondary toons from the neckbeards into another dimension that they have difficulties escaping. On repops, a new focus is made for said neckbeards.

[Tann]

Yes.

See https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242181

Be careful what you wish for.

Seriously though, find all the best information you can.

http://i.imgur.com/u9qfv1F.gif

[Spyder73]

The server economy would crumble and the server would die with instancing. Being a glutton for punishment is classic, and believe it or not, the only reason people are still around is because of how hard it is to get top tier loot. You start bashing the loot pinata for everyone and all of sudden drop-able loot is worthless and no one is logging in anymore.

[Ravager]

The server economy would crumble and the server would die with instancing. Being a glutton for punishment is classic, and believe it or not, the only reason people are still around is because of how hard it is to get top tier loot. You start bashing the loot pinata for everyone and all of sudden drop-able loot is worthless and no one is logging in anymore.

TMO locked down the loot pinatas for years and nobody was logging in anymore. 1 Million Plat epic MQ's didn't do your economy any favors either. Primetime weekends saw a high pop of 450 people until the raid scene was reformed. Unless something changes, I bet in a year or so it'll drop to 600 at primetime weekends.

[Tann]

Being a glutton for punishment is classic, and believe it or not, the only reason people are still around is because of how hard it is to get top tier loot.

yet they begged and cried until they got a raid rotation.

http://i.imgur.com/W1hHUel.gif

[Nihilist_santa]

Do we have any Firiona Vie players in here? Im curious about what the raid scene was like on that server. Wasn't everything droppable and you could only have 1 char per account on the server? Just wondering how that classic option worked out.

[Ravager]

yet they begged and cried until they got a raid rotation.

http://i.imgur.com/W1hHUel.gif

And when they got their rotation, the primetime population tripled. So, numbers and stuff make better arguments.

[xKoopa]

Do we have any Firiona Vie players in here? Im curious about what the raid scene was like on that server. Wasn't everything droppable and you could only have 1 char per account on the server? Just wondering how that classic option worked out.

I played FV for a short time and grouped with an insanely geared cleric usin the group heal proc hammer from tov and other proc/clickies. Basically just told us to pull everything we could find in unrest and he destroyed it all