P99 Group Ethics Question... [Archive]

ukaking

12-22-2010, 08:27 AM

Just asking the community here if this is nothing or if its asshattery...
Put together a group last night. Had everything we needed but a tank. Found said Tank in the form of a Dark Elf SK, but he needed a port. We sent our wizzy to go get him.
We begin pulls and fight for about ten minutes when suddenly he says, "Just got an offer from my guildmate over there to PL me, see you guys later."
Our group was left without a tank, again.

Is this type of thing acceptable here or would this be one of those asshat type things that should get a player blacklisted? How do vets handle this?

BTW, he died five minutes later and his guildmate was begging us for a rez because the SK was bound so far away. I told the wife not to do it, but she is a bleeding heart and did it anyways. He did pay her well for the rez, but to me thats a bribe because he is a twink alt and money isnt an issue, nor do I believe having said money should entitle you to treating folks like garbage.

As a casual player, this is why I always have issues when teaming with someone from one of the "top guilds" in the game. It always seems to end with the little guy getting dumped on for either, not having good enough gear or they have to leave in mid-group for greener pastures.

Again, not trying to be a rant or flame, just wanting to know if this is normal and if Im out of line on my thinking?

Scrooge

12-22-2010, 08:50 AM

You're not out of line, though unfortunately as the server grew since it started over a year ago, so did the amount of douchebaggery between players. Many think gear and levels are more important than anything else.

Rhambuk

12-22-2010, 08:53 AM

Group etiquette is not what i remember from live, maybe it was because groups were harder to come by on live and peoples reps actually meant something.

Being LFG for a few hours usually makes people appreciate their groups a bit more, but when they are getting plvld and only care about getting 50 they aren't afraid to just drop group and go, I've been in a royals group in solb and after seeing bnb shout that they were looking for a rep cleric ours just up and went because it was "better experience"

I usually just keep a little mental note of the players name, if im looking for more or a rep I tend to not invite that person but I don't go out of my way to avoid that person.

I definitely wouldn't have rezzed the guy though, probly would've given him a quick "Hows that pl exp!?" and let him run back =p

karsten

12-22-2010, 10:07 AM

hehe, the douchebaggery was pretty high before also! back then groups were also REALLY hurting for tanks, one time even zilo got to main tank heheheh

i personally wouldnt get too bothered by it. xp is super hard to come by these days with the high pop, and i wouldnt get mad at anyone for doing it whenever possible.

also, and i think a lot of people dont realize this -- just about anyone can tank as long as they can hold aggro. this includes rogues who use two SBDs, rangers with root swords, and mage pets. also, it opens up a spot for a dps class, so you are killing stuff faster.

Good ol' karsten, always thinking outside the box and coming up with new solutions!

Gaaaaavin

12-22-2010, 10:10 AM

Honestly, it could be asshattery or there could be more to the story. I have left groups before for another, but only in extreme circumstances. For instance, if the group was just really not going well. And by not going well I mean being in fear for my "life" on just about every pull.

In fact, I left a solb group last night not long after joining it because several friends of mine logged on and wanted to do something. I apologized to my group, helped them clear the next few rough pulls and clear to entrance, then headed out to hang out with my friends in guk. Hopefully no one considered this to be asshattery. I feel like I got better exp with my friends, mostly because we group often and work fairly well together, so technically I did leave my group for better exp elsewhere. However, I didn't leave them tankless, which is a bit more serious.

So my take... yeah, sometimes it is asshattery, but don't be too quick to judge someone after only one circumstance. And please don't be too wary about grouping with people from top guilds. Sure, you'll find jerks, but you'll also find a lot of really great people. And I'd wager you find more of the great people than the jerks.

karsten

12-22-2010, 10:12 AM

k well if you are not in fear for your life on every pull then you are not xping fast enough! (aka karsten style)

Gaaaaavin

12-22-2010, 10:16 AM

also, and i think a lot of people dont realize this -- just about anyone can tank as long as they can hold aggro. this includes rogues who use two SBDs, rangers with root swords, and mage pets. also, it opens up a spot for a dps class, so you are killing stuff faster.

This! The best groups I've had in the past few days have had NO tanks. Just four dpsers and two healers and we ate through mobs so fast we didn't need someone in heavy armor.

Also, if you really want someone to have aggro, root the mob, plant your rogue/monk/ranger etc closest to the mob. Easy peasy.

ukaking

12-22-2010, 10:44 AM

Oh I've definitly used my bard as tank before, dont worry about that. lol.

LevinJ

12-22-2010, 12:24 PM

I think this server is very different from classic, for one simple reason; whoever we were in classic - what we "remember" - we are ten years older (and most of us recognize that and act like it). We are all self-interested beings. I don't have the time to commit to this game like I did in high school, and my online reputation isn't as important to me as it used to be.

This doesn't mean I am a training, KSing dick, but it does mean that I know how much of a hair trigger people have in attacking one's reputation, and I am just not so worried about that. If I can only play for a couple hours and I see a way to more efficiently obtain my objective of having a good time, getting exp, etc, I politely tell the group that I am moving on, how soon I am leaving, and part ways. Never had a problem. Ex: I tell group I am going to go after next kill, I wait till down time, say goodbyes and leave. I usually try to give more notice if we are in a dungeon/deeper area, but shit happens.

In particular, when I recognize that I have joined a bad group, I don't wait till we wipe to leave. I know a bad group when I see it, and I politely move on.

Scrooge

12-22-2010, 12:46 PM

hehe, the douchebaggery was pretty high before also! back then groups were also REALLY hurting for tanks, one time even zilo got to main tank heheheh

Truth! I actually remember having DPS-exclusive groups without any tanks at all, the DPS total was so good that mobs just dropped in seconds before they were able to deal any serious damage.

Yak

12-22-2010, 01:31 PM

That was a very douche bag thing to do. He basically used you guys for the wizard port and then left. I love how karma wins in the end. However, it's too bad that he got a RES but that's how it goes.

ukaking

12-22-2010, 02:31 PM

If its any better, the rez was 0% XP.

Dr4z3r

12-22-2010, 02:37 PM

If its any better, the rez was 0% XP.

"Hows that pl exp!?"

lololol

Anyways, if the tank just said "guys I got a better offer, bye" and then dropped, yes, that's d-baggin'. If he said "10-min warning, lookin' for a rep," that's not nearly so bad.

ukaking

12-22-2010, 02:57 PM

Nah it was literally, Guildmate offered me a PL, see ya!

Yak

12-22-2010, 03:05 PM

If its any better, the rez was 0% XP.

Why yes it is. ;) How much did he pay for the res?

Sephrana

12-22-2010, 03:38 PM

Yak

12-22-2010, 03:40 PM

Really...THere could be more to the story.....He could have had plans and didn't realize it. I play with RL Friends and last night my monk friend didn't realize that I had sorta already obligated us to a group... and he joined another group when he logged in.......then he chose to leave that group to join me.....

:/ Sorry that happened to ya though!

I have had that happen and I had my friend in real life join the group. If he couldn't, I stayed with the group for at least an hour. If the person who left the group has the balls to post their side of the story, I would love to hear it!

bigred

12-22-2010, 03:59 PM

I am a noob to EQ and I was the bleeding heart In this this group. If any of you have grouped with us in the past I have helped those in group and well anyone in need of help. All I could think was if that where me I would want someone to be understanding of my choices. The person sent me tells after the fact and was extremely nice and yes paid very well! He even said he'd rejoin our group if we gave him the rez. I had to make a judgment call that effected not only my in game life but also my home life. I do not understand why everyone gets sooo upset over this game but we had no problem fighting with out him.

Me and my husbands characters:
Bloodwulf McKeegan - Barbarian Warrior
Naysa McKeegan - Barbarian Shaman
Armandoe Hyperblade - Wood Elf Bard
Bigred Lifesaver - High Elf Cleric

Alkorin

12-22-2010, 04:22 PM

I do not understand why everyone gets sooo upset over this game

Enough said.

It's a GAME.

Sephrana

12-22-2010, 04:44 PM

Exactly :) It is a game. Just a game :) And Yak? I wouldn't have been able to join his group :/ I had made plans with another RL friend so there were 3 of us and only 2 slots in that group. It was poor communication on my part :( but They were understanding of his leaving :) I don't think they were necessarily looking to be full - it was just some reptile killin in oasis ;) But still! I felt bad. :)

Yak

12-22-2010, 04:52 PM

Exactly, it's a game but that's not what this is about. There is something called common curtsy. Some people have respect and honor, while others could give a shit less. In the end karma will be the ultimate judge. Most people in game are great and I doubt anyone is going to loose any sleep over this.

Noser

12-22-2010, 04:57 PM

Monks also make great tanks in exp groups and do good dps to boot. The only thing that really bugged me when leveling up was when people would bail almost immediately or with no warning at all. Typically when a healer or tank joins the group i just ask them if they can stay for awhile or if they would at least give a 15 minute warning. Sometimes just setting some ground rules at the beginning helps.

Yak

12-22-2010, 05:35 PM

Totally agree with you Noser! In most groups that I have been with the healer and the tanks have given a 15-30 minute notice. In some cases even found replacements.

President

12-22-2010, 05:43 PM

k well if you are not in fear for your life on every pull then you are not xping fast enough! (aka karsten style)

^^^ If the healer/enchanter has more than 25% mana I haven't been pulling fast enough.

Alkorin

12-22-2010, 05:48 PM

Most people don't have common courtesy, online or offline, Yak.

I try to find a replacement for a group before I leave them. If I absolutely can't, that's the way it goes -- I'll leave and not feel bad about it -- but I always warn that I might have to leave, especially if it's going to be on short notice.

Valafea

12-22-2010, 05:48 PM

Shit happens. If it happened twice with the same player, I probably wouldn't invite him again, not because I thought he was an ass (which I might), but because I couldn't count on him.

Psionide

12-22-2010, 05:54 PM

Sephrana

12-22-2010, 05:55 PM

^^^ If the healer/enchanter has more than 25% mana I haven't been pulling fast enough.

^ This

Rhambuk

12-22-2010, 06:08 PM

^^^ If the healer/enchanter has more than 25% mana I haven't been pulling fast enough.

Veteran Players are so much more hardcore than the up n comers :p

aubie

12-22-2010, 06:08 PM

People always say "sports build character". Wrong. Just like sports, games REVEAL character.

mgellan

12-22-2010, 06:17 PM

I am a noob to EQ and I was the bleeding heart In this this group...

You and Blood are both good people, and personally I don't think there's any lasting satisfaction from being vindictive, even if someone makes a bad choice. I think you got it right - it's only a game, shrug, rez the poor guy and move on. As my mother always said (in a broad Scots dialect) "More tae be pitied than scorned, that one."

U guys still in MM? Watch for my LFG!!

Regards,
Mg

Bubbles

12-22-2010, 08:05 PM

Scrooge is right... Back in the old days there wasn't any tanks.

I think Crow and Severs were probably the only two warriors i ever grouped with. Really the only two i ever saw online anywhere near my level.

For the most part is was armies of mages and necros and enchanters and shamans, etc..

Hell my cleric almost spec'd evocation, cuz all I basically did was undead dps hehe.

Obviously you have to look at the source:

People don't have hours upon hours to play this game like we did 10 years ago. Sometimes we have to get in and out quick. Which is why you see far more soloers and duos, etc. I mean, if you roll, say, a rogue, you're basically waving the white flag cuz you're gonna need a pretty solid group to level up, which is hell to find in a pickup group.. If you're lucky enough to even find one within 5 zones of where you camped out.

Alexzia

12-22-2010, 09:34 PM

The polite thing to do is give notice. The best thing you can do is take note of people who don't do the polite thing and avoid them in the future. I definitely encountered my share of them on the way to 50.

On the plus side, I also met a bunch of cool peeps.

Scrooge

12-22-2010, 10:00 PM

On the plus side, I also met a bunch of cool peeps.

One of the greatest things about EQ, unlike most other games in the genre.

Like your avatar :D

Kavanah

12-22-2010, 11:33 PM

President

12-23-2010, 08:23 AM

I only think it is a d-bag move if you guys had to turn down another tank in the meantime of getting him. Then that stinks... but I wouldn't hold it against him, he would just be a last reserve in the future. Suck it up and move on...

IMO anything less than a 30 minute warning and offer to help find replacement(if needed) is kinda weak. Not saying its d-bag to do less. But grouping would be much better if everyone followed that rules. Emergencies not counted....

fastboy21

12-23-2010, 08:36 AM

Part of the problem is that at this point in the server's life there are much higher numbers of people playing two, three, or even more alts to max level while they wait for the expansion.

Reputations matter here, but only on your main. People playing alts tend to quit groups faster, not be as interested in socializing, and generally do things that on your main you would not do so quickly.

I try to resist the urge as much as possible, but when I'm playing an alt and the group stinks and most of the group is made up of alts...there is a very strong temptation to just /q of say without warning "i gotta go now, sorry"---I would never do that on my main while I was leveling up, nor did I do that on live. On live, however, my only alt wasn't even level 20 by the time the first expansion came out. On P99, I have 2 well geared 50s, an almost naked 50, and 4 30+ chars. I would also say that I am behind the average curve compared to most players in alts, and certainly behind in terms of gear.

Scrooge

12-23-2010, 10:07 AM

Old School DPZ Group!

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/5698/eq000052a.jpg

garyogburn

12-23-2010, 01:02 PM

Old School DPZ Group!

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/5698/eq000052a.jpg

How did you get your pets buffs to show?

Extunarian

12-23-2010, 01:36 PM

@Garyogburn this screenshot is not from p1999.

quellren

12-23-2010, 01:58 PM

Smallz's title 'Apprentice Potter' should have been a dead giveaway that this is not P99

Kassel

12-23-2010, 02:00 PM

Pet buffs used to show, they got nerfed here on p99 as was not classic.

The SS's look like p99 to me, new UI with old icons, Divinity, and new school skellies

mognet

12-23-2010, 03:24 PM

Meh, it is what it is. The guy had the chance at what should have been easy exp so I don't blame him for taking that chance. As mentioned before it would have lessened the blow had he chosen to delay 10-15 minutes and attempt to find a replacement.

While I don't fault his choice, he would have went on my blacklist. Not that I find what he did to be extreme, but it just shows that I won't be able to trust him in the future to stay with a group if I added him as a tank. And I definitely wouldn't have rezzed him - I would have been a complete ass at that point but that's just me :).

Short version: I don't hate him for the choice he made, but I wouldn't run with him again.

Scrooge

12-23-2010, 03:45 PM

Another thing about that screenie....do you guys know what "Gift of Magic" is? It's an Enchanter buff from Velious! Mobs used to buff each other using spells that don't exist to players.

karsten

12-23-2010, 03:46 PM

@Garyogburn this screenshot is not from p1999.

@Extunarian hehehehehehehhehe ok

Dismay

12-23-2010, 03:59 PM

Truth! I actually remember having DPS-exclusive groups without any tanks at all, the DPS total was so good that mobs just dropped in seconds before they were able to deal any serious damage.

This reminds me of a group I had in seb once... war, 4x rog, cleric - we were clearing 1/2 of upper seb...

bled12345

12-24-2010, 09:00 PM

I don't think him leaving to get PL'd is bad form, I think him leaving without giving you guys any headsup or finding a replacement is balls.

It sucks sometimes being the only tank / cleric / CC in the group. If you are DPS you can leave and no one misses you and you can easily be replaced, but if you are an essential part of the group you feel obligated to people even if you have only been grouped for 10 minutes.

At least I do lol.