Clinton or Bernie?

[mmmroo]

Who prefers a none criminal for office?

[iruinedyourday]

Bernie obviously ain't no dummies play p99

[Baler]

I know something that will trump you all.

[iruinedyourday]

should be so lucky after the vast majority of people who are too normal to play p99 but just toxic enough to vote for Hillary, get what they want.

[iruinedyourday]

he will or we'll rip this mother fucker down.

[Pokesan]

he will or we'll rip this mother fucker down.

A horde of twig-armed hipsters straining their effeminate limbs against the white house fence. The brave millennials are soon too exhausted to even livetweet the Revolution. A proud silence returns to American political discourse. Change had come.

[iruinedyourday]

Hey I can dream cant I?

I mean the slow dismantling of our rights in the economy by Hillary could be considered us winning either way. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Pokesan]

Would you mind taking the hobbits with you on your way to the political wilderness?

[iruinedyourday]

I mean, you can dream all you want, but Bernie has been out of the game for a couple months now. Jump on team Hilldawg.

hellnollery

[AzzarTheGod]

1 false flag into the next presidency and I bet its like Bernie's politics never existed :)

they do a good job keeping socialism out of the conversation. we'll see

[Daywolf]

Just a matter of overt vs covert.

As covert as I'm still wondering where Clinton and Obama disappeared to together back in 08. Oddly at the same time a bilderberg meeting (even the left had a wtf moment (http://wonkette.com/400268/hillary-baracks-very-special-bilderberg-date-night)) was on... which would be constitutionally treasonous to attend as he was still a US senator at the time.

[Seltius]

I expect Hillary gets elected then catches Bill screwing around with 3 or 4 interns she loses it kills him gets impeached and then Netflix creates a realityish show about it.

[AzzarTheGod]

I dunno. He got stamped out pretty easily. I don't think people are ready for some of Bernie's ideas.

He still was given a platform and performed far better than expected ala the Tea Party.

You saw the Establishment knee-jerk over the Tea party with several Federal agencies targeting them.

They will go over the numbers and general sentiment about the Bernie party and decide if it's too much or if nobody cares. I personally feel they need to kill the conversation about socialism especially after the vicious attacks on the billionaire class, which upset A LOT of people and was compared to kristallinacht and the Holocaust by some billionaires.

We'll see.

[mmmroo]

If Clinton wins, there will be riots.

[Millburn]

I've voted Green / Justice for a while now. Depending on how things roll out over the next few months I'll most likely be doing that this time as well. The debate I have right now is if I write ol' Bernies name in or not. I'm waiting to see if there's a swell in interest for the green party. An opportunity to hit the 5% or so vote for all those juicy perks would be pretty awesome for next election cycle.

[Mandalore93]

Given that Bernie, some old Jew guy from butt fuck nowhere on the east coast was able to challenge one of the most prominent (for better or worse) politicians of the past three decades who has had her husband, an incredibly popular ex-president, stumping for her on the campaign trail. Given that democrats tend to suck ass when young people don't go out and vote and that most millennials supported Bernie, I don't foresee Hillary winning.

[EatitNerd]

Of course the trannie is on "team hilldawg"

[Villide]

Given that Bernie, some old Jew guy from butt fuck nowhere on the east coast was able to challenge one of the most prominent (for better or worse) politicians of the past three decades who has had her husband, an incredibly popular ex-president, stumping for her on the campaign trail. Given that democrats tend to suck ass when young people don't go out and vote and that most millennials supported Bernie, I don't foresee Hillary winning.

Yeah, she's going to win, barring getting indicted.

Considering all this "the Dems aren't energized" nonsense, it's interesting that she's collected 2 million more votes than Trump so far through the primary season.

She's likely to be a shitty President, but there are very few scenarios where Trump is beating her in November.

[chipz]

It will be Hillary and Trump. Not sure how you could even include anyone else in this race. Shits done with. Hopefully Hillary beats Trump, Bill was a good president.

[Daywolf]

I predict that after 8 years of TRUMP, Hillary STILL wont get her presidential pardon to get out of prison :D

[Gitem]

Rather see Bill as first husband than see a cuck prep the bull

[iruinedyourday]

Gitem what was it like during primary day in NY?

cus the aftermath looked pretty fucking faggot.

[AzzarTheGod]

gud posts

[Mandalore93]

Not sure if some of the replies here were to me' but I meant I don't see hillary winning in the general election. She's had the primaries locked for a while

[Ikabod]

It seems like there's a larger percentage of Bernie/Hillary supporters in the P99 community than out in the real world. I believe this parallels the larger than average percent of unemployed and students that are just looking to increase the amount of free shit they get at the expense of others and their country. If you can't see how awarding the least productive members of society and punishing the most productive would have a negative effect on the nation's health just by using common sense, at least read a book about how socialism has worked out in the past. I'm guessing it's far from the utopia you envision.....or just keep worrying about yourself at the expense of everyone else and get shit on even harder in the long run. Take a look at Greece.

[Villide]

It seems like there's a larger percentage of Bernie/Hillary supporters in the P99 community than out in the real world. I believe this parallels the larger than average percent of unemployed and students that are just looking to increase the amount of free shit they get at the expense of others and their country. If you can't see how awarding the least productive members of society and punishing the most productive would have a negative effect on the nation's health just by using common sense, at least read a book about how socialism has worked out in the past. I'm guessing it's far from the utopia you envision.....or just keep worrying about yourself at the expense of everyone else and get shit on even harder in the long run. Take a look at Greece.
You mean, out in the real world, where Hillary has over 2 million more votes in the primaries than Donald Trump?

The rest of this is boilerplate FoxNews-like regurgitation.

[Gitem]

Hillary is going to be president.

Sorry you're mad. Not like fly over states count for anything anyway.

[Lune]

It seems like there's a larger percentage of Bernie/Hillary supporters in the P99 community than out in the real world. I believe this parallels the larger than average percent of unemployed and students that are just looking to increase the amount of free shit they get at the expense of others and their country. If you can't see how awarding the least productive members of society and punishing the most productive would have a negative effect on the nation's health just by using common sense, at least read a book about how socialism has worked out in the past. I'm guessing it's far from the utopia you envision.....or just keep worrying about yourself at the expense of everyone else and get shit on even harder in the long run. Take a look at Greece.

Why don't you tell me more about how socialism has worked in the past. You think the failed "socialist" states like the Soviets failed because socialist policies are inherently bad, or because their culture couldn't handle it? I mean, now that they are more capitalist, they still suck, because they are corrupt and incompetent, but I don't see you claiming that is damning evidence of capitalism's inferiority. What about Nazi Germany, whose socialist reforms produced a booming economy in the midst of the Great Depression while all the market economies all over the world were sinking into the abyss? Or our contemporary peers in the first world, whose more socialist institutions produce greater outcomes and superior well-being for their population? They outperform us in every way possible except aggregate wealth (Which doesn't matter for you and I in the US, because it's held by the elite, and doesn't get recirculated into the economy). What about Medi-care, a socialist program so popular in the USA that any politician, Democrat or Republican, wouldn't dare touch it because they'd immediately get voted out of their seat?

I think people like you just want to extract as much value as you can from society, while giving as little as possible back. Believe it or not, not everybody is like you. Many people are going to work to be the best and do great things without the promise of riches. Just look at academia over the last few centuries; none of the great scientists who built the scientific foundation of the modern world did it to get rich (Oppenheimer, Bohr, Heisenberg, Schrodinger, Pauli, Von Braun, Robert Koch, Pasteur, Einstein (who was a socialist), Planck, Curie, etc etc etc).

In a capitalist system, those who control the capital hold all the power, both political and economic. It's not evil to try and negate the stranglehold they have over everything for the benefit of the middle class. The only reason your life is bearable right now and you're not living like a Chinaman is because sometime last century some socialists decided to unionize and win things like a 40 hour work week, paid vacation and sick leave, living wage, health and safety regulations, pensions, employer funded healthcare, etc

Being an obsequious servile corporate bootlicker has just as negative an effect on our nation's health as anything else. They've successfully convinced people like you that anything that is contrary to the interests of the business elite is bad for the country, and that's unfortunate-- because now we're seeing the formation of monopolies, crumbling national institutions and infrastructure, wage depression in spite of high productivity, and business interests directly controlling politicians.

Should any political party attempt to abolish social security unemployment insurance and eliminate labor laws and farm programs you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group of course that believes you can do these things. Among them are a few other Texas oil millionaires and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid.

^Republicans used to be capable of being progressive and reasonable. Then Ronald Reagan happened and that "tiny splinter group" destroyed America and created an entire party of people like you.

The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil.... I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals. In such an economy, the means of production are owned by society itself and are utilized in a planned fashion. A planned economy, which adjusts production to the needs of the community, would distribute the work to be done among all those able to work and would guarantee a livelihood to every man, woman, and child. The education of the individual, in addition to promoting his own innate abilities, would attempt to develop in him a sense of responsibility for his fellow men in place of the glorification of power and success in our present society. From the article, "Why Socialism?" by Albert Einstein (http://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism/)

Capitalism was indispensable as a way to drive industrialization and the transition into the modern industrial world, but the future has to be a more socialist mixed market system.

[azeth]

It seems like there's a larger percentage of Bernie/Hillary supporters in the P99 community than out in the real world. I believe this parallels the larger than average percent of unemployed and students that are just looking to increase the amount of free shit they get at the expense of others and their country. If you can't see how awarding the least productive members of society and punishing the most productive would have a negative effect on the nation's health just by using common sense, at least read a book about how socialism has worked out in the past. I'm guessing it's far from the utopia you envision.....or just keep worrying about yourself at the expense of everyone else and get shit on even harder in the long run. Take a look at Greece.

I'm terrified that invalids like yourself may be and likely are reproducing

[Gitem]

In a capitalist system, those who control the capital hold all the power, both political and economic. It's not evil to try and negate the stranglehold they have over everything for the benefit of the middle class. The only reason your life is bearable right now and you're not living like a Chinaman is because sometime last century some socialists decided to unionize and win things like a 40 hour work week, paid vacation and sick leave, living wage, health and safety regulations, pensions, employer funded healthcare, etc



http://i.imgur.com/uWgGPK0.jpg

[maskedmelon]

I think people like you just want to extract as much value as you can from society, while giving as little as possible back.

Fwiw this is rational behavior provided it does not jeopardize the source of said value.

For better or worse man is an irrational creature want to embrace the lofty promises of idealism in the cold face of reason. The lies just manifest in different forms to one individual than another.

A mind divorced of reason suffers blindly the light of truth, lamenting the phantoms of madness shadowed in the specter of estranged reality.

[Lune]

Fwiw this is rational behavior provided it does not jeopardize the source of said value.

It necessarily jeopardizes the source of value, though. Cooperation and building a strong social contract with collective responsibility are rational endeavors; it's what makes advanced civilization possible. It's precisely the lack of strict, widespread "rational self-interest" that makes life bearable.

That's why I find it so ironic when Reagan conservatives love calling other people "takers". Their Ayn Rand ideology is literally parasitic.

[Ikabod]

Yeah it's terrifying that someone that produces more than he uses would procreate. His children might grow up sharing his genetics and values, and also be productive members of society. Sounds aweful. Fucking hillbillies right?

[Lune]

Yeah it's terrifying that someone that produces more than he uses would procreate. His children might grow up sharing his genetics and values, and also be productive members of society. Sounds aweful. Fucking hillbillies right?

It's really that simple for you isn't it?

All the benefits of government and civilization are being taken from people who do work, and being given to those who don't?

Like reforming our corrupt shit-ass healthcare system and cutting out the insurance middle-man so that it's affordable for employers and employees alike doesn't help everyone?

[iruinedyourday]

In a capitalist system, those who control the capital hold all the power, both political and economic. It's not evil to try and negate the stranglehold they have over everything for the benefit of the middle class. The only reason your life is bearable right now and you're not living like a Chinaman is because sometime last century some socialists decided to unionize and win things like a 40 hour work week, paid vacation and sick leave, living wage, health and safety regulations, pensions, employer funded healthcare, etc

gonna post this on facebook and it gonna go viral.

Except im going to change chinaman to something less 1914 sounding

[Lune]

gonna post this on facebook and it gonna go viral.

Except im going to change chinaman to something less 1914 sounding

Yea Chinaman is definitely not the preferred nomenclature

[Ikabod]

I said genetics so I'm an idiot? You do know how babies are made right?

[Lune]

The reason Hillary has the majority vote right now is because of women. There are so many women out there right now who want to try and put a women in the White House just because it asserts a change for women's social status. Other than that, her policies are shit, she's under fire with the whole email situation and basically a puppet. Most of Bernie's ideas are good but our national debt is already high enough and is more concerning than the social system. Trump's ideas are shit as well but he will be kept in par by all the checks and balances. I just like the idea of a businessman versus a politician running the country.

Businessmen already run the country, Bernie is the only one who wants to change that.

[maskedmelon]

It necessarily jeopardizes the source of value, though.

If we are to assume that total 'value' is some quantifiable static value then sure. Is it though?


Cooperation and building a strong social contract with collective responsibility are rational endeavors; it's what makes advanced civilization possible.

Of course they are because cooperation involves working towards a shared interest. If your interests align with someone else's then cooperating makes perfect sense. When would cooperation be rational if it left you worse off?

It's precisely the lack of widespread "rational self-interest" that makes life bearable.

That's why I find it so ironic when Reagan conservatives love calling other people "takers". Their Ayn Rand ideology is literally parasitic.

Well that is not me and my thoughts are my own no matter how repugnant they may be. They didn't come from Ayn Rand. They were delivered to me unsolicited by the callous hand of reason.

I am not so much interested in whether things are right or wrong, but what is rational, what is reasonable, what is logical. Everyone likes to abuse reason in support of their ideals and we end up with piles of data on each side that the other side scoffs at.

[maskedmelon]

I said genetics so I'm an idiot? You do know how babies are made right?

The idea that genetics drives success or behavior is racist because certain genetic populations suffer disproportionately from poor outcomes.

Aside from that it's just absurd, it's been well established families almost never share common personality/behavioral traits and those few that they do are exclusively the result of environmental influences.

Just keep your racist conjectures back in 1930 before people recognized them as such.

[iruinedyourday]

did someone say genetics?

http://i.imgur.com/c8iOO6E.jpg

welp, Im in!

once again, as the days progress, I become more and more like Lune.

[iruinedyourday]

Then you need to ask yourself - is putting our country in debt even further to balance out our social system really the answer?

It depends on how you define a businessman, most of the previous Presidential candidates went to school or were refined for politics from a young age. Trump was building his empire.

It depends on who you think will reduce our debt, the bankers who borrow more money than god and pay no taxes? or the people who want to break up the bankers and tax them.

[AzzarTheGod]

It depends on who you think will reduce our debt, the bankers who borrow more money than god and pay no taxes? or the people who want to break up the bankers and tax them.

indeed

you have to regulate corporate greed from a few different angles.

otherwise you create an oligarch class that benefits from wage suppression. poor get poorer, rich get richer.

immigration = cheap labor, happy to be here, easy to exploit etc. = wage suppression (now seeing wage suppression in "white collar" IT jobs, as we bring in more Indians) wage suppression in typical "white men" jobs is a huge problem as now even the "privileged" class is suffering, and when they fall, everything falls..

As we have seen with permanent loss of salary and wages in the past 15-20 years. No rise, steady falls back to 1990.

So we have loss of jobs AND loss of good salary even when jobs are provided. Its a double whammy that will destroy the middle class.

[iruinedyourday]

indeed

you have to regulate corporate greed from a few different angles.

otherwise you create an oligarch class that benefits from wage suppression. poor get poorer, rich get richer.

immigration = cheap labor, happy to be here, easy to exploit etc. = wage suppression (now seeing wage suppression in "white collar" IT jobs, as we bring in more Indians) wage suppression in typical "white men" jobs is a huge problem as now even the "privileged" class is suffering, and when they fall, everything falls..

As we have seen with permanent loss of salary and wages in the past 15-20 years. No rise, steady falls back to 1990.

So we have loss of jobs AND loss of good salary even when jobs are provided. Its a double whammy that will destroy the middle class.

Yea, basic human income here we come!

In the California senate debate the leading rep nominee broached the subject of NOT raising the min wage and instead making sure if your income is sub a livable wage we subsidize what we need to to get you there.

Don't know if I trust this guy but after I look rough his history, if I think I can, he'll get my vote.

[sOurDieSel]

The idea that genetics drives success or behavior is racist because certain genetic populations suffer disproportionately from poor outcomes.

Aside from that it's just absurd, it's been well established families almost never share common personality/behavioral traits and those few that they do are exclusively the result of environmental influences.

Just keep your racist conjectures back in 1930 before people recognized them as such.

You just went full on retard PC bro

Just because something is 'racist' doesn't mean it isn't true.

Almost everyone accepts that genetics determine skin color, which it does. Then why would it be that far-fetched to propose that genetics determine IQ?

Look at public schools, kids of all different races are getting the same crappy education and most the time the same racial groups do better than others.

Genetics are everything, ask anyone who has ever bred a dog or any other animal for that matter.

But my mama said that race is a social construct and only a racist would say differently. (Look at your obamacare print out the next time you go to the doctor. I bet there will be two different boxes, one asking your race and another asking your ethnicity, damn those racist doctors and their medicine!! **When it comes to blood pressure medication they make one specifically for black people).

All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.

[Lune]

This is completely wrong as well. Capital does have a lot to do with power but doesn't control everything. If this statement were true, Trump would be winning unquestionably. Consciousness and greater knowledge is the real power, money helps create false knowledge or greater consciousness of ones self but ideas are infectious and once the majority of people you know are voting one way, you do too. There are so many people who vote based on what their family, friends or significant other believe; or have only listened to biased from one side of the argument due to what knowledge is available or how their greater consciousness around them views things. As far as the Chinaman comment, socialism pressed or not, once the vast majority finds something unfair and decides to do something about it, it will be changed.

Trump is nothing. Dude only has a few billion dollars, and he has the full might of the establishment arrayed against him; hundreds of billions of dollars and an entire power and influence apparatus that spans the media, both our political parties, the financial sector, public opinion, and beyond. That he's made it this far is a miracle, and Clinton will bury him.

The fact that Ikabod is in here reciting the Fox News billionaire class platform like a mantra is evidence enough that money and influence have bought American public opinion and coerced them into voting against their own interest (also that they were pretty stupid to begin with). The fact that Trump, by all accounts a liberal until very recently, has picked the "right" side of the aisle to further his own personal brand, is inconsequential.

[JayDee]

I'd vote for morgan freeman cause his voice

[Lexical]

Bernie is p gud IMO, but he lacks a substantive argument as well as the vigor to take on a MSM backed Clinton. He is out of his league in this ring. More time given to minority opinions, like we had pre-Reagan, he would fair better, but alas, it wasn't meant to be in this political climate.

[Daywolf]

The reason Hillary has the majority vote right now is because of women. There are so many women out there right now who want to try and put a women in the White House just because it asserts a change for women's social status. Other than that, her policies are shit, she's under fire with the whole email situation and basically a puppet. Most of Bernie's ideas are good but our national debt is already high enough and is more concerning than the social system. Trump's ideas are shit as well but he will be kept in par by all the checks and balances. I just like the idea of a businessman versus a politician running the country.
meh it's more of a matter of an arms race of sorts, in which the weapons are that of Edward Bernays' makings to wit people like Slick Willy confess to having been a mentor of and using such propaganda techniques to manipulate and shape destiny. You think that, and so does Lune, because they want you to think that, and know how to make you so to oblige their trickery.


“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.” ― Edward L. Bernays, Propaganda


And the opposing side in that arms race is of those that have woken up.

[Lune]

Bernie is p gud IMO, but he lacks a substantive argument as well as the vigor to take on a MSM backed Clinton. He is out of his league in this ring. More time given to minority opinions, like we had pre-Reagan, he would fair better, but alas, it wasn't meant to be in this political climate.

If you think Bernie lacks a substantive argument, especially relative to the other candidates, you haven't been paying attention.

Here's 30 years of Bernie Sanders talking substance, nailing issues before most people even knew they were issues. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxRCnwqUrc8)

[sOurDieSel]

Trump is nothing. Dude only has a few billion dollars.

Blasphemy!

How dare you spew that hatespeech against The Glorious Leader.

[JurisDictum]

The question is weather Bernie would be able to implement his agenda. Congress passes laws and it is lead by Paul Ryan atm. Even if democrats win the Senate they are unlikely to win the House. All Bernie could do is hold rallies, get on TV and try to bully Congress into passing laws. I say that because I don't think he can do it wheeler dealer style like LBJ.

Hillary could be the type that actually gets most her agenda through -- even though it isn't as exciting. She has a lot more connections in DC than an idealist like Bernie. She could be the next LBJ...but then again, she could be the next Richard Nixon.