New Bard Guide

[brecon]

Hey all,

I wrote a new Bard guide on the wiki. I found the other guides a bit wanting. This is a first draft, so feedback welcome!

http://wiki.project1999.com/Thrasos%27_Bard_Guide

[serjordanmormont]

Hey all,

I wrote a new Bard guide on the wiki. I found the other guides a bit wanting. This is a first draft, so feedback welcome!

http://wiki.project1999.com/Thrasos%27_Bard_Guide

Thanks man.

I have a bunch of nice gear for a bard collecting dust so I was thinking of rolling one to put it to use.

Gonna follow this for sure.

[Jence]

Near the bottom of the guide you posted epic being 1.6 modifier. Needs corrections as it is 1.8, just friendly heads up.

[Nixtar]

Nice work! Very nice to see a bard guide which isn't focused solely on swarm kiting.

[Eugee]

In the description of pulling/aggro you put "if you pulled x2 you would get x1 and x2" when you meant to say "x1 and x3". Nice read so far.

[Eugee]

Note on fear kiting: setting aside 3.5 seconds per song, you can squeeze 5 songs into 18 seconds if you don't fizzle any, allowing you to play snare-fear-dot-dot-dot. But any missed notes means you skip the last dot.

BUT our dot actually hits FOUR times. So you can play snare-fear-dot1-dot2, snare-fear-dot3-dot1, snare-fear-dot2-dot3, and keep three dots rolling as well as have a cushion to keep the fear kite going. Worst case, one dot will drop for a single tick.

[Cochonou]

Does the flute really enhance faction song? I barely noticed any change in faction gain with or without flute

[brecon]

Thanks for the comments, I've updated to correct the epic modifier and the pulling typo.

Re: Fear kiting. I just find it unsafe to twist 5x songs and really avoid damage....especially when I start fear kiting mobs that bash. With casters its okay. One or two fizzles and suddenly you're taking a hit. My 'normal' twist is:
(1) mez the mob
(2) snare and fear
(3) equip tash orb, just keep snare, fear and MR dot up until tash lands
(4) switch to drum, twist MR and FR dot, snare and fear. If I am low hp, I will only do one dot and twist in hp regen
For this reason I prefer to wear a fungi when barding, so I can passively regen while I fear kite / pull / etc.

Re: Faction modifier on flutes: I'm not certain. It should, but there are some bug reports that indicate that it does not. I have never bothered to get anything but a vendor flute. I must have done 30 sky raids and never got the stupid primary flute to drop for me from the giant parrot.

[Eugee]

I'm 54 and can safely fear kite a geonid with all three dots on it, so I disagree. Ordinarily I charm-kite them obviously (as they have so many HP) but when doing a shaman and geonid, you don't play games to keep their health even--you just keep that shaman charmed and attacking (instead of casting on you).

Once one of them is down the other frequently has 40% health, and with 3 dots you'll only knock off 2-3% per tick, meaning you'll be there awhile, even with fear.

1. Mez.
2. snare/fear
3. Play dot 1 & dot 2
4. Snare/fear
5. Play dot 3 & dot 1
6. Snare/Fear
7. Play dot 2 & dot 3

See what I mean? You're only twisting 4 songs for the fear kite, but you rotate through your dots. Most of the time (like 95% of the time) you'll see three dot ticks.

Note that this is if you are worried about the 5th song dropping.

I just play snare/fear/dot/dot/dot usually. If there is *any* trouble in the twist, then I just skip the last dot, picking up that dot first on the next cycle.

On my hotkeys it's 1-MR DOT, 2-FR DOT, 3-CR DOT, 4-AE Fear, 5-Snare/Slow. (6 is ALWAYS speed/or lull indoors, 7 is ALWAYS charm, 8 is ALWAYS mez) I have 6 7 8 mapped to W R T respectively as well, and Shift R & T are charm/mez with chat announcements.

So from me, my keypresses go 5... 4... 3... 2..*fizzle* 2... 5... 4... 1... 3... 2... 5... 4.. *fizzle* 4... 3... 2... 5... 4... you get the idea. Note that even with a dropped song you have a 50/50 chance that it will be snare or fear. If snare drops, you have 6 seconds till the next tick when fear will drop. Just keep playing and you're fine. If you know you're behind on the twist and snare *doesn't* drop, then just move outside of melee range as you reapply fear just in case it drops early.

I've been 5-twisting fear kites since I hit 46 and got my third dot, and I play with 100-150ms pings, up to 200 at worst. It's quite doable, and at my level it's the difference between 128/tic and 171/tic. That's a big difference when killing a geonid! :)

I like the guide, lot of good information, thanks for writing it.

[Eugee]

Oh! That reminds me, you mentioned you'll get an intuition for when charm is going to break. While I agree with you, there's a much better timer than your gut.

3 song pulses.

So I'm charming a pair of wyverns in CS... I charm one, send it on the other, play speed song, and back up to sit down (2 mana/tic instead of one, and charm that works on them uses mana). Then just count the "you feel faster" messages. After three, charm is typically breaking on the next tick.

Anyway, if you're twisting between charms, just remember you'll typically get 4 songs played between charms.

Normally when I'm charm kiting, I always charm the pet that's winning, hitting it with a dot or two before recharming, so that it's losing some extra HP. Ideally when the charm fighting stops, both are under 20%, so I snare one, and when they get apart they both start fleeing. Now chant them down at your leisure.

But sometimes I've got a pet that's just a beast, and a target rich environment (like a bulthark, with mega hp and dmg, who chews up the wyverns). So I snare a wyvern 3-4 times before I charm the bulthork and send him in.

Then I play speed/snare/speed/snare... now toggle back to the bulthork who's charm is about to break--start precasting--break/charm/sic--speed/snare/speed/snare, repeat. When the wyvern is almost dead, mez or snare the bulthork, dot up the wyvern (3 dots will kill it from 19%), then go get another one.

Did I mention how much I love bard charm?

[Tewaz]

Need to add a guide for the most important bard skill: AoE PL for cash.

[Lartanin63]

Well done.

[pink grapefruit]

Dex is a bad choice for stat allocation on a bard. And so is str and cha :/

Dex and cha help with missed notes for sure, but they don't impact a bard the same as they would a caster. Missed notes happen instantly and don't waste any mana. You're saving fractions of a second each time. Plus bard gear is full of dex and cha so getting over 100 in both just happens naturally with a few pieces of gear.

Besides the missed notes, cha really only helps with lull on a bard. Maybe charm duration is impacted too, but when it maxes out at one minute or whatever it's not a big help regardless.

Always go all in with sta when making a bard.

Also going sta is a 100hp difference at level 60. HP probably most important stat after resists, and 100hp is equivalent to a piece of high end raid gear.

[Eugee]

One could argue that 25 extra Strength would be most useful so you can carry more phat lewts from the 50 mobs you just PBAE-Kited, for that matter.

I like 15 dex/15 cha, because it really doesn't matter.

If you have a drum, you can get to 60. If you have a horn, you can get to 60 faster.

[pink grapefruit]

One could argue that 25 extra Strength would be most useful so you can carry more phat lewts from the 50 mobs you just PBAE-Kited, for that matter.

I like 15 dex/15 cha, because it really doesn't matter.

If you have a drum, you can get to 60. If you have a horn, you can get to 60 faster.

25 str for loot when you have Selo's and str buffs doesn't make much sense to me :P

[brecon]

Oh! That reminds me, you mentioned you'll get an intuition for when charm is going to break. While I agree with you, there's a much better timer than your gut.

3 song pulses.


I normally time it this way - after I charm I'll run Selos, Dot1, Dot2, then start charming again to lock up the new mob.

Problem is based on the number of fizzles, lag and the server tick sometimes you need extra time. I restart charm 50% of the way through the charm cast usually if my charm hasn't broken yet.

Dex is a bad choice for stat allocation on a bard. And so is str and cha :/

Dex and cha help with missed notes for sure, but they don't impact a bard the same as they would a caster. Missed notes happen instantly and don't waste any mana. You're saving fractions of a second each time. Plus bard gear is full of dex and cha so getting over 100 in both just happens naturally with a few pieces of gear.

Besides the missed notes, cha really only helps with lull on a bard. Maybe charm duration is impacted too, but when it maxes out at one minute or whatever it's not a big help regardless.

Always go all in with sta when making a bard.

Also going sta is a 100hp difference at level 60. HP probably most important stat after resists, and 100hp is equivalent to a piece of high end raid gear.

You're thinking with an end-game raider, Kunark + Velious mentality. If you are a Bard trying to do solo artist challenges or pulling for groups 40-50 in bad gear, the stamina won't save your life as often as reduced crit resists from lulls or from mez resists (both which check to Cha, not just charm and duration)

If you are a solo bard you might also want dex to get quick procs on Orb of Tishan or to stack DD procs. Also, if you are trying to twist 5 songs while soloing, fizzles ARE a big deal.

If you are a true newbie, you might not want to suffer being permanently overweight from level 1-50, so some STR points may make your life more enjoyable.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying that the question of which is the 'best' allocation of stat points for a bard is very open to how you plan to play, and not everyone plans stat allocations around raiding. The only wrong answers are wisdom, intelligence, and AGI if it pushes you over 85.

[brecon]

Need to add a guide for the most important bard skill: AoE PL for cash.

I think by the time people want free advice for how to monopolize zones in order to make phat stacks, I no longer wish to provide them with free tips :)

[iruinedyourday]

When i started on p99 i rolled a bard for my first character, had people pay to sit afk in my group and wound up with lvl 50 and 20k

not bad for a first character idk

[pink grapefruit]

You're thinking with an end-game raider, Kunark + Velious mentality. If you are a Bard trying to do solo artist challenges or pulling for groups 40-50 in bad gear, the stamina won't save your life as often as reduced crit resists from lulls or from mez resists (both which check to Cha, not just charm and duration)

If you are a solo bard you might also want dex to get quick procs on Orb of Tishan or to stack DD procs. Also, if you are trying to twist 5 songs while soloing, fizzles ARE a big deal.

If you are a true newbie, you might not want to suffer being permanently overweight from level 1-50, so some STR points may make your life more enjoyable.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying that the question of which is the 'best' allocation of stat points for a bard is very open to how you plan to play, and not everyone plans stat allocations around raiding. The only wrong answers are wisdom, intelligence, and AGI if it pushes you over 85.

I don't think I'm approaching this with an end-game raider mindset. Going sta seems to make the most sense for anyone planning to be level 60 someday, whether they raid or not. If anything 100hp is a bigger deal for those without plans to get the awesome raiding gear as they wont have those high hp items available to them. 100hp is obviously a higher percentage of your total health the less gear you have.

Do you have evidence suggesting cha affects mez somehow? Not saying you're wron but I'd really be interested in logs like that, and there were long and detailed posts back in the day on The Concert Hall with logs showing that cha really only affected lull resists, missed notes, and possibly charm duration. If cha does affect bard mez here I'm not sure it's classic.

For the specific purpose of proccing orb or other weapons, a 60 bard can buff dex +20. And again there is a lot of dex on bard gear, even at the lower levels. Cha gear is even easier and very cheap. Swap a few items before lulls and you'll be just fine. Not to mention the +45 cha buff bards get. Your examples of cha and dex usefulness seem to be pretty specific situations that you can often prepare for with a few inexpensive items, while hp is useful in virtually any situation. Even if your goal is to be a level 30 group puller I would go sta.

[brecon]

I don't think I'm approaching this with an end-game raider mindset. Going sta seems to make the most sense for anyone planning to be level 60 someday, whether they raid or not. If anything 100hp is a bigger deal for those without plans to get the awesome raiding gear as they wont have those high hp items available to them.

You make a fair argument, and I'm sure it works for you. I said in the guide it's not a big deal and there are lots of arguments on all side. I don't personally put any points in sta at creation.

If you think about the Enchanter Bard skills (lull, mez, cha) you see a similar debate on the Enchanter forums about maxing int or cha. Some enchanters say you don't need Cha even when charm soloing...which blows my mind. I think one of the most important things for a Bard is avoiding lull crit resists, and I think the second most important thing is getting quick procs with weapons. So I put most points into Cha, and I get Dex to 100.

If you are raiding you basically don't need anything besides resists and hp. If you are soloing or pulling for a group, you'll have HP/AC buffs, but a lull crit will destroy you

[EobarrdThawne]

Good guide man, lots of good information. Thanks for putting it together!

[DrKvothe]

Awesome guide. Do you happen to know any ideal shaman + bard duo spots for the grind from 59 to 60? Hp song, mana song, and breath of harmony (reduces cannibalization damage) mean more mana than I can spend, and aoe dots with no initial dd component are the perfect compliment to my preferred solo strategy of root/rotting multiple targets. Throw in snare and mez for when root breaks early or something bad happens, and bards become my favorite duo partner.

[brecon]

Thanks! In my mind the most important thing that a Bard brings to a Shaman/Bard duo is the ability to split camps. The second most important thing is the abllity to charm and mez. The third most important thing is mana/hp regen and free dots.

I'd say the best place to xp is Solb Freeti. The main thing the Bard brings is the ability to split the Freeti room, which is kinda rough for a pre-torpor shaman. Then it's just an easy grind, solid xp, and chance for a few nice drops.

Beyond that, I'd suggest HS basement and COM second floor. CoM is easy enough but it's a lot of 4-splits, making taking a break tough, and there's no exciting drops. HS Basement is a straight grind....but with a Bard charming or a Shaman pet to eat HTs it's not so bad. The reason I don't like HS basement is one insta-break charm or resist and the Bard could be exposed to a 3-4 HTs.

Some of the Nec guides (ssesserdrix's) has some recommendations for camping guards that could work as well, but in general old world > kunark > velious for xp. So Solb > CoM/HS > Velks/DN.

[Bionic]

While it is a bit of a moot point, bards can get the OT hammer much earlier than 50.

I got mine at level 11ish. DE Mask + Faction song is enough to do it. Yes, it will only take up bank space until you can proc it.

[Trollhide]

Shenanigans, DE mask can't be clicked until level 15 :p

[Kender]

de mask + faction song wont be enough faction to get hammer also. need to hand in braids

[Borak]

de mask + faction song wont be enough faction to get hammer also. need to hand in braids

This is a lie. I got my OT hammer at 42 on my agnostic wood elf bard that never killed any VS faction mobs (no KC, etc). You will be threatening to start. Mask will take you to apprehensive, then faction song will take you to amiable.

Edit: If you did the quest for the Nostrolo's Tambourine early, and killed scorpikis in OT to get the coin, that will mess up your VS faction too. I did that after I got my OT hammer, glad I did.

In any event, you can charm the foreman yourself at or near 50.

[Kender]

This is a lie. I got my OT hammer at 42 on my agnostic wood elf bard that never killed any VS faction mobs (no KC, etc). You will be threatening to start. Mask will take you to apprehensive, then faction song will take you to amiable.

Edit: If you did the quest for the Nostrolo's Tambourine early, and killed scorpikis in OT to get the coin, that will mess up your VS faction too. I did that after I got my OT hammer, glad I did.

In any event, you can charm the foreman yourself at or near 50.

sure but at level 11 when this guy said he did it the faction song wont give you 2 ranks worth of faction.