enchanter cha

[RevSaber]

whats a good cha base for charming well? 150? 175? trying to find a good target to hit when i make one.

[Baler]

Minimum 200 CHA I would never recommend anything lower for a charm oriented enchanter.
Your charms will break a lot if you're not close to or above 200 cha. It's just like a lucky number or something. The higher the better!
Always keep a CHA buff up on yourself.

And Magic Resistance Debuff your target before you charm it! This is KEY. Tash it before charming it and if you have someone who can malo it, have them malo it too. Get that magic res as low as possible.

CHA and Magic Res are two key numbers in the charm breaking formula for enchanters.

[Samoht]

205 unbuffed is your target.

[Baler]

205 unbuffed is your target.

This is true because at level 56 you get a 50 CHA buff.
http://wiki.project1999.com/Overwhelming_Splendor

If you're grouped with a lvl 59 shaman they can buff you for 55 CHA.
http://wiki.project1999.com/Unfailing_Reverence

Either way you'll be at 255 cha (capped) :)

[cubiczar]

Just as a real world example I run 160ish cha and have 7-8 out of 10 blue con charms last long enough to kill what they are fighting (or need to break charm so I can kill the pet). Yellows and whites make for fun fights but blues are generally quite relaxed. I have no doubt that 200 plus is better but at least till level 24 I can say 160ish is fine most of the time.

If you are planning to level solo in close quarters dungeons all the time you probably want to shoot for as close to 200 just because breaks are a nightmare in tight spaces. I've found decent spots outdoors so far and it makes life much less stressful even if the exp is a bit slower ;-)

[-Catherin-]

Just as a real world example I run 160ish cha and have 7-8 out of 10 blue con charms last long enough to kill what they are fighting (or need to break charm so I can kill the pet). Yellows and whites make for fun fights but blues are generally quite relaxed. I have no doubt that 200 plus is better but at least till level 24 I can say 160ish is fine most of the time.

If you are planning to level solo in close quarters dungeons all the time you probably want to shoot for as close to 200 just because breaks are a nightmare in tight spaces. I've found decent spots outdoors so far and it makes life much less stressful even if the exp is a bit slower ;-)

The stakes go up dramatically as you level. Charming yellows and whites becomes an impossibility and at 60 you are typically aiming for mobs 8-10 levels below you.

Even at this level a charmed pet can wreck you in seconds. And that is before you get daring enough to haste it and give it two weapons.

This is the point where every little bit you can squeeze out of your stats can save you, and where anything less than 200cha isnt going to cut it.

[cubiczar]

The stakes go up dramatically as you level. Charming yellows and whites becomes an impossibility and at 60 you are typically aiming for mobs 8-10 levels below you.

Even at this level a charmed pet can wreck you in seconds. And that is before you get daring enough to haste it and give it two weapons.

This is the point where every little bit you can squeeze out of your stats can save you, and where anything less than 200cha isnt going to cut it.

I don't doubt that, however your ability to buy more gear and cast better cha buffs also goes up. My point is simply that you don't need 200+ cha from the start. Also like I said if you level outdoors things are less messy when charm breaks (sow + room to run is great).

The thing is most enchanter advice is to max out cha and be a high elf. But somehow all those DE enchanters make it work and they start with 20 less cha than high elves. So if you start out high elf and dump all possible points into int and the rest into cha you will STILL have the same cha as a dark elf that has maxxed their cha.

I think it is important to give some perspective to the whole cha thing, you don't need it from day one and also it is relatively cheap to buy cha gear. So people shouldn't be so afraid of making a mistep on char creation, it just isn't that big of an issue. If you get super into your enchanter you can gear past a few points of starting points misspent.

[Samoht]

So if you start out high elf and dump all possible points into int and the rest into cha you will STILL have the same cha as a dark elf that has maxxed their cha.

Wtf. No. INT is practically useless as an Enchanter. HP, mana, and CHA are all way more important. Maxing CHA at character creation allows you to start buying HP and mana gear quicker because you hit 200 unbuffed CHA sooner.


And you'll still hit the INT soft cap with exactly zero effort.

[cubiczar]

Wtf. No. INT is practically useless as an Enchanter. HP, mana, and CHA are all way more important. Maxing CHA at character creation allows you to start buying HP and mana gear quicker because you hit 200 unbuffed CHA sooner.


And you'll still hit the INT soft cap with exactly zero effort.

The point was... that based on which race you choose maxing out CHA just barely puts you higher than another race's STARTING CHA. Yet somehow these dark elf and gnome enchanters haven't ruined their lives because they didn't roll high elf.

But sure if hps are so dear to you put everything into STA if that floats your boat. I honestly could care less but stop acting like to be an effective enchanter you have to be a HIE with maxed out CHA into starting points. That just isn't the case, pick an erudite cause you like bath robes, or pick that DE cause they look badass (and hide is cool), or gnome because they are short (and you don't need a spell to see through walls). So what if you have to carry around that glorified beer mug for a bit longer, that one slot isn't going to make or break your gaming experience.

Also if INT means nothing why doesn't everyone start as a human enc? they only start with 5 less CHA but have better STA? Those few extra hit points remember are much more important than INT since INT means nothing. I guess everyone has been doing it wrong this whole time.

[-Catherin-]

The question posed was how much CHA was good for charming. Not this other stuff everyone has started going back and forth about.

The answer, simply put, is as much as you can get.

[Samoht]

But sure if hps are so dear to you put everything into STA if that floats your boat.

Yeah... No. Don't do this shit either. I'm gonna go ahead and cut you the benefit of the doubt because it's clear that you have no idea what's going on here or what stats do what. If you're happy with your choice as a dark elf just to get that racial hide, that's fine. No need to get defensive. The returns on STA are negligible and never once did any of us actually advocate stacking STA on a caster. We're referring to raw +HP when we say HP. Not converted STA. The ROI is shit on STA, just as it is with INT over 200. It's just not worth it. But once again, the point in stacking CHA and picking high elf is to get more flexibility on the amount of gear or which specific pieces you need to get to 205 unbuffed. Once you get there, raw HP is pretty much the only stat that matters. For instance, I've done charm soloing with Aegolism and without it. And it's basically a night and day difference to your survivability. When charm breaks, your health bar is all that separates you from success and failure. If you have any other questions, please go ahead and ask. Just don't get angry when you find out you were wrong.

[Doctor Jeff]

Yeah... No.....
that guy is one of those people that don't stay runed because its "too expensive"

[-Catherin-]

CHA is wierd and it can come back to haunt you later on.

At lower levels CHA is in abundance on gear and cheap, but as you get into the higher levels it actually starts to get harder to find. Sure you can continue to use that 15cha Crude Stein in your offhand but do you really want to use that over an Orb of the Infinite Void? Do you want to keep wearing those 7 CHA jewelcrafted bracers or do you want those skyshrine bracers that add over 50hp EACH among a bunch of other stats... but *no* CHA?

http://i.imgur.com/jVyYAhr.jpg

The Orb is the clear choice and the skyshrine bracers are the clear choice but that is 29cha you need to now find somewhere else. This is just one example as a lot of armor begins to look like this. Even as a High Elf I have a hard time striking the right balance between CHA/HP/MANA because of this.

[Samoht]

that guy is one of those people that don't stay runed because its "too expensive"

And I'll bet that you're one of those idiots that play red.

[Colgate]

there is hardly any charisma on raid gear

the best geared enchanters in the game have pitiful charisma

high elf and all stats into charisma is the way to go

[Man0warr]

Not much to charm in the raid zones of Velious anyways (outside Kael), so keep that old CHA gear around for soloing I suppose.

[Luminious]

My 2 coppers...

CHA has more uses than just charm. It also affects initial resist on mez as well as lower crit resists on lull and increased effectiveness of mem blur spells.

Whether you charm or not, CHA is still very useful.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

My 2 coppers...

CHA has more uses than just charm. It also affects initial resist on mez as well as lower crit resists on lull and increased effectiveness of mem blur spells.

Whether you charm or not, CHA is still very useful.

Cha doesn't affect mezzes just rng on charm and resist rate on lulls.

If I'm blurring I just lull and chain mezz anyways. No sense bringing up a spell with a 5 sec cool down when you can just mezz till your hearts content.

[Tewaz]

Yo Yumyums, been a while. You still playing?

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Only red and not too often. Found my forum handle information so I'm posting a bit for the satisfaction.

[-Catherin-]

If I'm blurring I just lull and chain mezz anyways. No sense bringing up a spell with a 5 sec cool down when you can just mezz till your hearts content.

Level 4 mez greatest spell ever.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Level 4 mez greatest spell ever.

It's all I ever use unless I need to rapture.

[Ordrek]

Why not Erudite with 25 CHA and 5 AGI (to avoid the AC penalty)?

I would think the +5 MR, net +10 INT (since HE will likely put 5 in INT where the Erudite needs AGI), 5 STR, and 5 STA is worth more than 10 CHA. Sure the HE has Infravision, but Illusions/gear can fill that gap.

That +5 MR looks especially tempting on Red.

Thoughts?

[-Catherin-]

INT is easy to get and not a hugely useful stat for an enchanter.

High elves already have a naturally high AGI so you dont need to waste skill points on a nearly useless stat. Can put those last 5 points into STA or INT

Having the highest starting CHA possible is important for previous things already mentioned.

5MR does not make up for the CHA loss. And it is a very situationally useful stat easily overcome by resist gear when its actually needed

this is a blue perspective. im not going to comment on red as things are different and i dont play red.

[Raev]

Erudite and High Elf are basically a tossup IMO for the best races, but your character won't be defined by some trivial stat allocation. Loraen has 75 base charisma! Enchanter is above all a skill class.

Enchanters in PVP are very, very strong. You chain 4-slot dispel, then tash/root and serve up kills on a platter for your friends. Because of this, you will always be targeted first in mass PVP, so expect a 5-100 KDR. They can be strong in 1:1 PVP under the right circumstances though.

[Ordrek]

INT is easy to get and not a hugely useful stat for an enchanter.

High elves already have a naturally high AGI so you dont need to waste skill points on a nearly useless stat. Can put those last 5 points into STA or INT

Having the highest starting CHA possible is important for previous things already mentioned.

5MR does not make up for the CHA loss. And it is a very situationally useful stat easily overcome by resist gear when its actually needed

this is a blue perspective. im not going to comment on red as things are different and i dont play red.

I realize we are mulling the finer points of something that barely matters, but since we are having this discussion and future enchanters may read this, it is worth taking the discussion a few steps further. Let's be honest, we're only arguing this because we, like most EQ players, have a spot of OCD perfectionism in us and want our toons to be "perfect" in our mental construct of them even if the difference between perfection and non-perfection is close to nil. That said, let's get to it!

Also, I will add my spin for Red, since that is where I play. I get it that Red concerns aren't Blue concerns, but Red has all the concerns of Blue and then some, so the Blue concerns will be addressed as well.

Any INT will get you to 200+ with raid gear. I think we all agree on this. The only real value of extra INT is that starting with more means you can better afford to use a non-raid piece in place of a raid piece because of some utility function it has. On blue, this can occasionally be useful but it is a more salient point on Red, where utility can be a big deal. Utility may take the form of a clicky, extra resist gear, or whatever you feel the situation calls for other than raw stats. It is safe to say that if both ERU and HIE dump 25 into CHA at creation, the ERU has at least 10 more INT. We know the exact value of 10 INT in this game. It isn't much when it comes down to raid gear, but it isn't nothing given the replacement potential already discussed.

The value of CHA is not quantified anywhere that I have found with specificity, so it is impossible to make claims about its relative value to other more quantifiable stats. All we know is "more is better up to 255." With both ERU and HIE dumping 25 into starting CHA, HIE has 10 more but we don't really know the value of 10 CHA other than, like INT, it gives us more space to replace items with non +CHA items.

The ERU +5 MR is similar to the other stats in that it allows replacement value for other stats, or to more easily stack it very high. This is far more valuable on Red where every last drop of MR can be helpful. Yes, ERU trade that MR for -5 DR, but most would agree this is a fairly inconsequential resist. On Red, it is arguably useful to have a LOWER DR because it means your friendly Necro/SK/priest of Bert can cast Disease Cloud on you without a resist, making you immune(ish) to being mezzed (because Rapture is still a thing).

Other stats are more of a mixed bag of "who cares?", but we might as well be complete. Erudites will probably want to dump their remaining 5 points into AGI so they can avoid the AC penalty that comes with sub 75 AGI. While this penalty is likely not in play while geared, you aren't always in gear and might be in gear that doesn't provide 5 AGI. Since HIE start with AGI above 75 (85 to be exact), they can do what they like with that remaining 5 stat points. Many HIE will put it into INT, making the difference between a ERU and HIE only 10 INT rather than 15. The HIE +10 AGI means they have +4 AC over an ERU. Woohoo.

That leaves a few other differences that barely matter, but they aren't nothing. Erudites have +5 STR and STA over HIE. The STA means ERU have a "whopping" +12hp over HIE at level 60. Woohoo. The STR obviously means the ERU can carry 5 more stone of weight. The weight capacity is a bigger deal on Red where reducing an enemy's STR in order to effectively snare them by putting them over weight capacity is a danger. It is also a nice convenience to carry a bit more of something when farming/leveling.

ERU and HIE have the same DEX (70), but who cares?

The final difference really is nothing: HIE have more WIS than ERU? How much more? I don't care, and neither should you.

Bottom line differences and their 1 to 5 scale of relative importance (IMO):

ERU: +5 MR (RATING: 3 for Blue, 4 for Red), +10 INT (probably. RATING: 3), +5 STR (RATING: 2), +5 STA (RATING: 1)
HIE: Infravision (RATING: 3), +10 CHA (RATING: 4), +10 AGI (RATING: 1)

You'll notice there are no 5s. That's because none of those things matter that much compared to things like Regen. In fact, if we're calling things like Regen a 5, none of these differences would rate above a 2. What does this mean for you? Pick the one with the model you can live with. If you are playing Red, ERU has a slight mechanical advantage. If you're playing Blue, HIE has an even slight-er mechanical advantage over ERU.

I personally really dislike the HIE male model/faces and don't like to cross dress sexes, which makes ERU the only choice.

[Man0warr]

Dark Elf has Hide, which is a great racial for charm soloing Enchanters. Not as good as a Goblin Gazughi ring, but you can get by with it (I did for 50+ levels until buying a ring).

[Ordrek]

Dark Elf has Hide, which is a great racial for charm soloing Enchanters. Not as good as a Goblin Gazughi ring, but you can get by with it (I did for 50+ levels until buying a ring).

DE is worth looking at for sure, but I think your own post makes the best case against using Hide as a charm break: Even though you have hide, you still wanted a goblin ring anyway. I figured that out myself once when I played a DE enchanter on live. It led me away from rolling DE this time and to just save my money for a ring asap.

[Man0warr]

I only got the ring for high leverage situations where I needed to break charm 100%. For leveling up, it wasn't an issue.

[Luminious]

Cha doesn't affect mezzes just rng on charm and resist rate on lulls.

If I'm blurring I just lull and chain mezz anyways. No sense bringing up a spell with a 5 sec cool down when you can just mezz till your hearts content.

Incorrect. Charisma does effect mez. Small effect but its there. Also not every mob in game can be mezzed.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Incorrect. Charisma does effect mez. Small effect but its there. Also not every mob in game can be mezzed.

I'll have to take your word for it

[Luminious]

Just to elaborate...
The charisma check for charm and mez is -1MR for every 10 CHA above 75 up to 255, every -10 CHA under 75 adds +6MR, this calc is applied only on initial cast.
Max benefit from this -18MR {(255 - 75)/10} on cast of mez or charm

Saving throw value against charm is calculated when a mob is charmed that value is static. Every tic the mob has a chance to break charm by exceeding the throwing save value. Meaning the mob doesn't get 3 saving throws against level, MR and CHA every tic, they save against a single value that is comprised of lvl, MR and CHA.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Where did you get those numbers from?n I've only recently recovered my forum account so I'm not up to date on what's been released but afaik background values have never been released for the project.

This formula also suggests a linear benefit all the way to 255 on charms which does not parse as such.

[-Catherin-]

I realize we are mulling the finer points of something that barely matters, but since we are having this discussion and future enchanters may read this, it is worth taking the discussion a few steps further. Let's be honest, we're only arguing this because we, like most EQ players, have a spot of OCD perfectionism in us and want our toons to be "perfect" in our mental construct of them even if the difference between perfection and non-perfection is close to nil. That said, let's get to it!

Also, I will add my spin for Red, since that is where I play. I get it that Red concerns aren't Blue concerns, but Red has all the concerns of Blue and then some, so the Blue concerns will be addressed as well.

Any INT will get you to 200+ with raid gear. I think we all agree on this. The only real value of extra INT is that starting with more means you can better afford to use a non-raid piece in place of a raid piece because of some utility function it has. On blue, this can occasionally be useful but it is a more salient point on Red, where utility can be a big deal. Utility may take the form of a clicky, extra resist gear, or whatever you feel the situation calls for other than raw stats. It is safe to say that if both ERU and HIE dump 25 into CHA at creation, the ERU has at least 10 more INT. We know the exact value of 10 INT in this game. It isn't much when it comes down to raid gear, but it isn't nothing given the replacement potential already discussed.

The value of CHA is not quantified anywhere that I have found with specificity, so it is impossible to make claims about its relative value to other more quantifiable stats. All we know is "more is better up to 255." With both ERU and HIE dumping 25 into starting CHA, HIE has 10 more but we don't really know the value of 10 CHA other than, like INT, it gives us more space to replace items with non +CHA items.

The ERU +5 MR is similar to the other stats in that it allows replacement value for other stats, or to more easily stack it very high. This is far more valuable on Red where every last drop of MR can be helpful. Yes, ERU trade that MR for -5 DR, but most would agree this is a fairly inconsequential resist. On Red, it is arguably useful to have a LOWER DR because it means your friendly Necro/SK/priest of Bert can cast Disease Cloud on you without a resist, making you immune(ish) to being mezzed (because Rapture is still a thing).

Other stats are more of a mixed bag of "who cares?", but we might as well be complete. Erudites will probably want to dump their remaining 5 points into AGI so they can avoid the AC penalty that comes with sub 75 AGI. While this penalty is likely not in play while geared, you aren't always in gear and might be in gear that doesn't provide 5 AGI. Since HIE start with AGI above 75 (85 to be exact), they can do what they like with that remaining 5 stat points. Many HIE will put it into INT, making the difference between a ERU and HIE only 10 INT rather than 15. The HIE +10 AGI means they have +4 AC over an ERU. Woohoo.

That leaves a few other differences that barely matter, but they aren't nothing. Erudites have +5 STR and STA over HIE. The STA means ERU have a "whopping" +12hp over HIE at level 60. Woohoo. The STR obviously means the ERU can carry 5 more stone of weight. The weight capacity is a bigger deal on Red where reducing an enemy's STR in order to effectively snare them by putting them over weight capacity is a danger. It is also a nice convenience to carry a bit more of something when farming/leveling.

ERU and HIE have the same DEX (70), but who cares?

The final difference really is nothing: HIE have more WIS than ERU? How much more? I don't care, and neither should you.

Bottom line differences and their 1 to 5 scale of relative importance (IMO):

ERU: +5 MR (RATING: 3 for Blue, 4 for Red), +10 INT (probably. RATING: 3), +5 STR (RATING: 2), +5 STA (RATING: 1)
HIE: Infravision (RATING: 3), +10 CHA (RATING: 4), +10 AGI (RATING: 1)

You'll notice there are no 5s. That's because none of those things matter that much compared to things like Regen. In fact, if we're calling things like Regen a 5, none of these differences would rate above a 2. What does this mean for you? Pick the one with the model you can live with. If you are playing Red, ERU has a slight mechanical advantage. If you're playing Blue, HIE has an even slight-er mechanical advantage over ERU.

I personally really dislike the HIE male model/faces and don't like to cross dress sexes, which makes ERU the only choice.

So basically what you are saying is even though you asked for thoughts you pretty much had already decided before thoughts were given. :p

You won't get an arguement about 5MR on being superior on Red. But if you are looking for the same confirmation on blue you are not going to get it from me. CHA is king ;)

[-Catherin-]

Just to elaborate...
The charisma check for charm and mez is -1MR for every 10 CHA above 75 up to 255, every -10 CHA under 75 adds +6MR, this calc is applied only on initial cast.
Max benefit from this -18MR {(255 - 75)/10} on cast of mez or charm

Saving throw value against charm is calculated when a mob is charmed that value is static. Every tic the mob has a chance to break charm by exceeding the throwing save value. Meaning the mob doesn't get 3 saving throws against level, MR and CHA every tic, they save against a single value that is comprised of lvl, MR and CHA.

Where did you get those numbers from?n I've only recently recovered my forum account so I'm not up to date on what's been released but afaik background values have never been released for the project.

This formula also suggests a linear benefit all the way to 255 on charms which does not parse as such.

Id love to know this as well. Not saying its untrue but this is the first time I have ever seen this and the debate on CHA has gone on for 15 years. Your second paragraph is known, but its your first statment about the -1 MR per 10CHA that im really interested in.

[Luminious]

There is more to saving throws than just lvl, MR and CHA, but they aren't directly controllable.

EQemulator source code. Can't see why it would be different here. Falls inline with observation as well.

Spells.cpp line 4472-4478

Charisma ONLY effects the initial resist check when charm is cast with 10 CHA = -1 Resist mod up to 255 CHA (min ~ 75 cha)
Charisma less than ~ 75 gives a positive modifier to resist checks at approximate ratio of -10 CHA = +6 Resist.
Mez spells do same initial resist check as a above.
Lull spells only check charisma if initial cast is resisted to see if mob will aggro, same modifier/cap as above.
Charisma DOES NOT extend charm durations.
Fear resist chance is given a -20 resist modifier if CHA is < 100, from 100-255 it progressively reduces the negative mod to 0.
Fears verse undead DO NOT apply a charisma modifer. (Note: unknown Base1 values defined in undead fears do not effect duration).

https://github.com/EQEmu/Server/blob/master/zone/spells.cpp

[Ordrek]

So basically what you are saying is even though you asked for thoughts you pretty much had already decided before thoughts were given. :p

You won't get an arguement about 5MR on being superior on Red. But if you are looking for the same confirmation on blue you are not going to get it from me. CHA is king ;)

I can't tell if you're being unnecessarily testy, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Just because I have my own well-reasoned opinions doesn't mean I'm not interested in those of others. The issue I run into most often in having differing opinions with others is that their opinions offer no reasoning at all, let alone being well-reasoned. "Charisma is king" without any justification strikes me as more of a catchphrase than informed advice. Perhaps there is more to it that you just haven't shared yet. In that case I would welcome the the exposition and give it due regard.

[-Catherin-]

I can't tell if you're being unnecessarily testy, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Just because I have my own well-reasoned opinions doesn't mean I'm not interested in those of others. The issue I run into most often in having differing opinions with others is that their opinions offer no reasoning at all, let alone being well-reasoned. "Charisma is king" without any justification strikes me as more of a catchphrase than informed advice. Perhaps there is more to it that you just haven't shared yet. In that case I would welcome the the exposition and give it due regard.

The well informed advice has already been given in previous posts. So I keep it short with "CHA is King" because I don't feel it is necessary to keep repeating what has already been said. Whether you agree with it or not is your own deal :)

[Bozena]

I can say, anecdotally, that going from something around 230 to something around 250 helped immensely (WAY fewer charm breaks!). At level 60, I was dying way too much in PoM (partially due to bad tactics), and I bought gear that I should've has at level 30 (or at level 1 if I were twinked): the CHA rings and another Opalline Earring, stuff like that. It was embarrassing to make a 300pp investment at level 60 and immediately realize I should've done it a long time ago.

Which is all to say: yep, CHA is king. Even past the soft cap.

[Crawdad]

There is more to saving throws than just lvl, MR and CHA, but they aren't directly controllable.

EQemulator source code. Can't see why it would be different here. Falls inline with observation as well.

Spells.cpp line 4472-4478

Charisma ONLY effects the initial resist check when charm is cast with 10 CHA = -1 Resist mod up to 255 CHA (min ~ 75 cha)
Charisma less than ~ 75 gives a positive modifier to resist checks at approximate ratio of -10 CHA = +6 Resist.
Mez spells do same initial resist check as a above.
Lull spells only check charisma if initial cast is resisted to see if mob will aggro, same modifier/cap as above.
Charisma DOES NOT extend charm durations.
Fear resist chance is given a -20 resist modifier if CHA is < 100, from 100-255 it progressively reduces the negative mod to 0.
Fears verse undead DO NOT apply a charisma modifer. (Note: unknown Base1 values defined in undead fears do not effect duration).

https://github.com/EQEmu/Server/blob/master/zone/spells.cpp


Underrated post. Thanks for the knowledge bomb. Particularly surprised by the fear mechanics-- does this apply to only Enchanter or for all fears? Seems like you would see enchanter fears being resisted a lot more often than necro.

Also, Cha is King. There's really no valid argument to stack anything but Cha>Hp>Int/Mana (depending on level/current int) as an Enchanter, especially in light of Luminious's post.. except maybe resist gear.

High Elf is the clear min/max choice. There's always going to be a 'best' choice from a min/max perspective. If you aren't a min/max'er it shouldn't matter to you. I can log on and play my Erudite enchanter and never have to rationalize it because (gasp) I enjoy playing an Erudite enchanter and I'm good at it. That's all it takes really :D

[Ordrek]

I can say, anecdotally, that going from something around 230 to something around 250 helped immensely (WAY fewer charm breaks!).

The blurb from EQMU explicitly states:

"Charisma ONLY effects the initial resist check when charm is cast..."

This appears to suggest that CHA has no effect on charm breaks because those don't happen on the initial resist check.

The other way to read that sentence is as a conditional where CHA only affects the initial resist check under X conditions. But since those conditions don't follow I feel this is the wrong interpretation of what is said.

Most people seems to feel that higher CHA leads to less charm breaks. If this is true, the blurb from eqemu is incorrect. Perhaps the formula for p99 is different. If it is, then we have no idea of what the numbers look like because all of them might have been altered.

[Bozena]

Interesting. I've never really had a problem with resists upon initial charm. I also am not above placebo effect! I'd be curious to know what the true mechanic is, though. I guess I'll have to wait for someone who is more curious than me to do some testing! Until then, I will remain a member of the cult of CHA.

[-Catherin-]

it's pretty common knowledge that p99 has been altered pretty significantly from the eqemu source code, so i wouldnt really take what you see there as gospel.

[Ordrek]

it's pretty common knowledge that p99 has been altered pretty significantly from the eqemu source code, so i wouldnt really take what you see there as gospel.

That is my thought as well. Unfortunately that leaves us with being unable to quantify the exact value of CHA. However, I did see a patch note from the p99 staff indicating that CHA does affect (I think) charm breaks and lull agro. I might have to dig that up again...

[-Catherin-]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186455

literally first line.

[Ordrek]

That's the one... I think=)

EDIT: It is worth noting that it doesn't say in what way it is more dependable. It may just be the initial resist check like eqemu for all we know.

[Eld'n'Ell]

.02 cents

Ive just level'd up (49) from a fresh start and non-twinkage. Using my Animation (as I have a pocket cleric at all times) plenty until... Charisma was able to hit 180. Not only do you see a rather large difference in charm (as you also do at 150) but you see a massive uptick in Lulls being golden at that 180 mark.

At that point you can charm and not have repetitive issues from it. And can remain solidly in "grind exp mode". Then once you hit 200+ you will see charm being golden as what matters mostly is the creatures level and its innate ability to resist.

Charisma >>> Intelligence. But, for me, it was dependent on hitting that # otherwise I just kept with Int.