Let's talk about stamina!

[nilbog]

December 18th, 2003.

The yellow bar now represents endurance rather than stamina.
http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20031218.htmlStamina bar is classic! Endurance bar is... non-classic.

Why is stamina not frequently discussed?

Has it been forgotten? It used to have a strong effect on daily gameplay.

-while swimming, you lost stamina
-swinging your weapons, you lost stamina based on their weight
-"zing" spells, invigor etc had a use
-having 100stamina was important, as it negated a minor stat/attack speed reduction
-jumping should consume like 10% of your bar with each jump

Run out of stamina? Not good.. you walk slower and can't jump.


This will become more relevant with Kunark weapons.. because they were heavy.

i.e. Wurmslayer's good stats and damage should be negated by the fact it weighs 15lbs.

Does anyone remember a good weapon weight ratio? What weapons could you swing and not have to worry about stamina? When did weight become a problem, 5lbs, 8lbs?

Discuss.

[Qenaden]

WTF is endurance? I know my stamina bar goes down when I jump. Not sure about the rest.

[Lazortag]

Stamina bar is classic! Endurance bar is... non-classic.

Why is stamina not frequently discussed?

Has it been forgotten? It used to have a strong affect on daily gameplay.

-while swimming, you lost stamina
-swinging your weapons, you lost stamina based on their weight
-"zing" spells, invigor etc had a use
-having 100stamina was important, as it negated a minor stat/attack speed reduction
-jumping should consume like 10% of your bar with each jump

Run out of stamina? Not good.. you walk slower and can't jump.


This will become more relevant with Kunark weapons.. because they were heavy.

i.e. Wurmslayer's good stats and damage should be negated by the fact it weighs 15lbs.

Does anyone remember a good weapon weight ratio? What weapons could you swing and not have to worry about stamina? When did weight become a problem, 5lbs, 8lbs?

Discuss.

I seem to remember that if you were encumbered and ran for a long time, you lost more stamina than you gained, and eventually you'd have to start walking/sitting to regain it. Is there a source on all this?

[Akame]

Endurance = Warriors mana pool when their skill/discs came out. I could add 500 hate every some odd 45 seconds but it cost x amount of Endurance. Defensive/evasive discs cost Endurance per tick, etc. It all became a mana pool of aggro control vs endurance regen.


Edit: I do have to say I don't recall swimming being something that readily drained your stamina, I don't ever recall needing invigor on a kedge raid, but I have zero in formation to base that memory on.

[guineapig]

All I can add is that I do recall back when being an enchanter also included the job of making sure the melee had enough stamina during exp grinds. It was indeed a huge thing to have somebody in your group that could help with stamina regen. In my opinion it was one of the great things that set EQ apart from the other MMO's.

They really did factor gear weight in to as many aspects of the game as possible.

[Lazortag]

Keep in mind there's a bard song (level 3) that regenerates stamina. Just saying!

[Qenaden]

does this mean monks dont have to worry about weight on p99?

[Skope]

I remember swinging http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=751 all day and never seeing my stamina fade. I also recall acumen being one of the best and most important spells in the game during kunark :P

[Qenaden]

is endurance definately there in place of stamina right now? if it is, why are we arguing the merits of a post-classic game element? shouldnt the fact that its post-classic be enough?

[quellren]

I vaguely remember my paladin running out of ....whatever you call that yellow bar, on long fights. Swinging a GhoulBane and bashing seemed to drain it after a while. I used to cast invigor or yaulp on myself to fix it. It seems like I remember I couldn't bash once I ran out.
I got a message something like "You are too fatigued to bash" or some-such.

*shrug* I didnt even buy the spell this time on my shaman.

[guineapig]

Keep in mind there's a bard song (level 3) that regenerates stamina. Just saying!

No doubt! Clerics don't get Invogor till 9 and paladins get it at 22. Rangers get it at 30 I think. Druids get it at 14, shaman and enchanters at 24.

I even think they gave it to Beastlords later on.
Then of course there are the upgrades at later levels.

There is a reason why this spell was available to so many classes. The game was designed for that stamina bar to be very important.

[Chanus]

I definitely recall falling off the boat in OoT and then running out of Stamina whilst swimming and drowning.

I also recall running would slowly decrease your Stamina bar and you'd have to either start walking or stop and sit to regain it before you could continue running.

I actually expected to see both of these things when I first logged on here and was (pleasantly) surprised they didn't occur.

[Galv]

I assumed the stamina bar was working like classic when I started my bard. I droped several points into it so it would be easier to get to 100 sta. I remember that very well from when i started playing in Velious, you wanted your stam to be above 100 as a melee so your attack speed wasnt effected if/when it ran out.

Is it not working atm? The only thing I know is you do lose stam from jumping and once at zero it wont allow you to jump until you let it recover.

Was it always like that or did they make stam effect attack speed during Kunark or Velious?

[quellren]

I definitely recall falling off the boat in OoT and then running out of Stamina whilst swimming and drowning.

I also recall running would slowly decrease your Stamina bar and you'd have to either start walking or stop and sit to regain it before you could continue running.

I actually expected to see both of these things when I first logged on here and was (pleasantly) surprised they didn't occur.

Now that you mention it, I recall these too. Especially the running across the Karanas.

[Lazortag]

I definitely recall falling off the boat in OoT and then running out of Stamina whilst swimming and drowning.

I also recall running would slowly decrease your Stamina bar and you'd have to either start walking or stop and sit to regain it before you could continue running.

I actually expected to see both of these things when I first logged on here and was (pleasantly) surprised they didn't occur.

I'm pretty sure (as I said before) that running only decreased it if you were encumbered. Does anyone know for sure?

edit: also Galv, by putting points into stamina you didn't waste it - stamina is probably the safest stat to put points into.

[Chanus]

That may be the case. I don't remember specifically... just that it happened.

[nilbog]

I actually expected to see both of these things when I first logged on here and was (pleasantly) surprised they didn't occur.

The server launched with a rudimentary version of stamina loss in place. As it didn't have enough development time prior to launch, it was disabled in lieu of other issues. With Kunark, it will be even more relevant, and I would like to see it working as accurately as possible.

People swinging Wurmslayer (http://common.allakhazam.com/images/c/8/c804d10a1759294af51ec3fa13e039ea.png)s and Gunthak Harpoon (http://common.allakhazam.com/images/7/4/745f74663167671cebddc381c1cb7a32.png)s with no ill-effect isn't classic for sure. :P

[Loke]

Does what type of weapon it is affect it at all? I know it was an issue with the Wurmslayer (15wt 1hander), but don't ever remember having an problem with heavier 2hb weapons (peacebringer and T-staff come to mind).

I'll do a bit of research, but thought I'd bring up the 1h v 2h thing in case anyone had that info off the top of their head.

[Chanus]

Assuming the stats haven't changed and that pic is old enough to be old UI, Peacebringer is WT 10.0:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=568

[Chanus]

Was as of 1-15-2001, apparently:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=568&page=1&howmany=50#msg97951786629415

And looks like T Staff as well:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=572

[Kender]

does this mean monks dont have to worry about weight on p99?

yes they do. if they go over their soft caps they lose their AC bonus (graduated loss based on how over the limit they are)

[Loke]

Chanus, familiar with their weights. What I was asking is if 2hb were subject to the same stamina deal as 1hb, or if there is some different formula for different weapons skills (i.e. 2hands can swing twice the weight or something).

[Chanus]

Oh, I must have misread. I thought you said they were heavier but you didn't recall having weight issues.

Mea culpa.

[y2sky2003]

(Caveat: My only evidence is long-term memory, take that as you will...)

I seem to recall stamina being an issue when someone gave my newbie Paladin a Fine Steel Two-handed Sword (this was Velious era). I don't recall noticing changes in attack speed or damage as the bar went down though.

Also, I recall being hungry having a very noticeable effect as well.

[Chanus]

Yeah, I believe if you were hungry, Stamina wouldn't regenerate.

And it didn't slow you or anything, just if you ran out of Stamina you couldn't swing.

[guineapig]

Also, I also recall being hungry having a very noticeable effect as well.


Correct, hunger affected the stamina bar where as thirst effects mana. Not even sure if staying hungry forever would do anything on this server.

[y2sky2003]

Correct, hunger affected the stamina bar where as thirst effects mana. Not even sure if staying hungry forever would do anything on this server.

When doing CRs with my new Ogre Shaman on this server, it looked like being hungry negated HP regen. Am I wrong?

[Timzilla]

I definitely recall falling off the boat in OoT and then running out of Stamina whilst swimming and drowning.

I also recall running would slowly decrease your Stamina bar and you'd have to either start walking or stop and sit to regain it before you could continue running.

I actually expected to see both of these things when I first logged on here and was (pleasantly) surprised they didn't occur.

The only affect I remember was on swimming. I had the invigor spells, but never ever saw a use for them outside of swiming long distances.

[Taluvill]

Actually, I use an alt druid for tracking purposes because he is still bound in the Plane of Hate, and he hasnt eaten since the plane of hate release, about. His stamina bar doesnt regen well about 5 mins after logging in (logging in resets hungry/thirsty timers, Which I don't remember as classic, but i could be wrong.)

*shrug* I can jump with him, but it stops pretty quickly and has issues regening.

[SirAlvarex]

This is how my memory remembers bits and pieces of it:

1) Heavy 1-handers (like 5+ stones) drained stamina very fast.
2) Heavy 2-handers (like 5+ stones) drained stamina very fast.
IE, I remember the weight requirement being exactly the same between the two weapon types, but logic is making me question my memory. It doesn't make sense that a 10lb 2 handed club drains stamina just as fast if I were to swing it with one hand.

Rusty weapons made the song useful on the bard at early levels.

3) Running was a problem on my Paladin, but not on my Druid or Ranger. This mostly comes to mind while running in the Karanas. I did have to keep Invigor memorized for groups on my Druid.

4) I vaguely remember losing stamina while swimming, and having to go from looking at a 20 degree angle above water, to about 75 degrees to keep afloat.

5) The Stamina requirement of 100 sounds about right for the avoidance of attack issues. Was the speed just slowed, or could you eventually get fatigued and not attack at all? I feel like 25% stamina slowed your attacks, and 0% prevented attacks...but that is purely speculation.

6) Did Bash/Kick drain stamina? I remember timing my kicks with my stamina so I didn't drain it too fast, trying to keep around the 50% mark to avoid penalties.

That's all I got. I'd say get as close to classic as possible. I'm not sure if you could find any great resources on "Stamina Mechanics."

[Kender]

When doing CRs with my new Ogre Shaman on this server, it looked like being hungry negated HP regen. Am I wrong?

no youre not wrong. it also stops regen spells from giving you HP which is wrong. it should just cancel natural regen

[azeth]

Let's talk about stam-in-a baby
Let's talk about mana and H P
Let's talk about all the raiding
and the QQing
That. May. Be
Let's talk about stamina
Let's talk about sex.

[Hasbinbad]

iirc, stamina loss is based on # of hits.. therefore lower delay with the same weight, and/or 2 weapons with low delay of equal weight to one 2h weapon is going to give you more stamina loss

i don't think there are different formulas, i think it is simply based on # of hits vs weight

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

I definitely remember stamina dropping when swimming and jumping. However, I don't remember much about the stamina bar dropping from weapon swings. I don't remember ever having a problem with it on my Shadow Knight, but I do remember running down on my warrior. Perhaps higher Stamina statistic improved your stamina bar regen? or if your Stamina statistic was over a certain threshold, some activities didn't drain your bar? I have vague recollections of being over a certain stamina number meant your bar wouldn't drain when swimming... that sound familiar to anyone?

[astuce999]

I've dreamed of the day where my level 3 song wouldn't be completely useless anymore.


Please make it happen!

[Lazortag]

I've dreamed of the day where my level 3 song wouldn't be completely useless anymore.


Please make it happen!

From level 3-4 it's a perfectly good spell, allows you to jump as much as you want. But then selo's is faster than constant jumping so it becomes kind of useless then :'(

[Zigfreed]

I am also on board with recalling stamina dropping due to swimming or jumping. I don't recall it ever coming up with running but it's been a long time. I'm pretty sure that it wasn't an actual problem in xp groups (that I as a wizard noticed anyways..) until disc's began going off pretty freely. Hell if I remember when that was though, PoP?

[tristantio]

Old thread discussing a heavy weapon:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=4500

Interesting things to note are that even though its a 9/22 weapon most people think that it is a poor weapon simply because of the 10 weight (almost to the point of not using it).

Interesting quotes:
Speed influencing stamina drain

well the more the weapon weighs the faster your stamina is drained. A weapon like this would drain your stamina like crazy in a fight cause its fast and heavy.



It's more to do with it having 10 weight AND 22 delay. 15 weight on a 40delay weapon is a little different.


Stamina over a certain number negating some aspect of stamina drain

well this weapon rules the stamina thing is overrated cause is only 10 rocks wummys have 15 rock and peeps still use them and dont complain
this is a tank dream come true it procs a lot and
with haste is awsome anyhow by the time you get this weapon or ar at the lvl to use this weapon you stamina should be above 130 if not then go to ec and sell or you equip cause is time to upgrade


Some other people mention 100 and 120 as numbers to get your stamina over.

[tristantio]

Good ol' EQMac still uses stamina also and is discussed here:

http://www.eqmac.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9774

[tristantio]

This link:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=6297

Shows that even a 5 weight weapon will drain stamina (when it has 22 delay at least) on a longer fight, so it seems that at around 5 weight the weapon starts becoming a stamina hog.

[tristantio]

Obviously not scientific but could be useful:

From:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=17368


.... other than me notice that this beastly thing weighs 5 stone? The reason I gave up my Snowchipper was that after a 2 minute fight I had no stamina, zero, none showing on the bar at all swingin that chipper like it was goin outta style.


Snowchipper is 4 weight and 20 delay (and runs out the stamina after ~2 minutes).

Also throughout all the pages I am noticing after the cap is exceeded (100 or 120 or 130) the only negative effect of stamina is no longer being able to jump (primarily bad when in water because you are unable to jump out of the water at that point).

[Llabak]

Regarding swimming and dying, I remember doing the burning rapier with my gnome rogue and taking just this side of forever to find the damn bottle at the bottom of the ocean. If you needed stamina/endurance to stay afloat, I'm sure I would have drowned, along with most of the other rogues.

I also remember spending all sorts of time swimming around akanon looking for hidden passages and such when the game first released, and the only thing I had to worry about was air.

[Yak]

Technically the yellow bar that everyone keeps calling the stamina bar is actually your endurance and not stamina.

[Chanus]

It originally was a Stamina bar. It changed to an Endurance bar later.

[Rahnza]

More misinformation than an old allakhazam discussion: a classic p99 thread.

These things decrease stamina:
* swimming
* jumping
* auto attack (lose x amount of stamina based on weight each swing)

These things happen if stamina < 100
* cannot jump
* str decreases, possibly encumbering you.

These things happen if stamina = or > 100
* cannot jump

Therefore, if you're a melee and your sta is over 100 invig spells are pointless... all melee should be over 100 sta so invig spells have always been pretty pointless. All that you're possibly gaining is some lost str.

Notice that loss of stamina never did/does/will affect attack speed or make you unable to attack (lol if p99 is your first time playing eq please stop contributing to conversations thx).

[Chanus]

Well, if you say it's true without providing any evidence, it must be true.

[Yak]

It originally was a Stamina bar. It changed to an Endurance bar later.

Right now it's called the Endurance bar. :D

[nilbog]

Thought the OP covered that!

[Rahnza]

Well, if you say it's true without providing any evidence, it must be true.

Pretty much, yeah.