No paladins of the Tribunal?

[Fluttershy42]

I am honestly very confused. Why do The Six Hammers, the God of JUSTICE of all things, not have any Paladins at all? Followers of this deity are "...methodical, patient, and just." It's just something that I noticed, The Tribunal is one of my favorite deities, and was curious if there is an over-arcing reason for it.

Thoughts?

Source for the quote: http://wiki.project1999.com/The_Tribunal

[RDawg816]

My guess, would be that it's only an option for barbarians, who can't be paladins. While I think a barbarian paladin would be cool; that isn't very logical. They are fairly opposite, really.

As far as other races worshiping The Tribunal, that's probably frowned upon for being uncivilized, not in tune with nature, or not evil enough....

Also, the Paladin would get his powers from the cleric line/deity...and The Tribunal doesn't really fit that.

This is just my opinion though. I have no sources or facts to back it up. :)

[Danth]

I don't know about game lore, but maybe the so-called Justice gods aren't very nice (aren't they the guys who looked like medieval versions of Darth Vader during the Planes of Power expansion??). "Barbarians" suggests a primitive culture, anyhow. The quasi-mythical Paladins of our own history (Charlemagne's retainers, etc) were defined by their chivalry as well as their piety; primitive cultures couldn't really produce them by definition. The Barbarians, including their rather pagan-esque "tribunal" of gods, strike me as more akin to pre-christian scots or norsemen. I don't think they're going to be particularly civilized; they seem more apt to rush into battle covered in woad, screaming obscenities, madly hacking off limbs and heads while their priests conjure up various incantations and charms to protect them.

Danth

[Rararboker]

The devs commented back in the day about how they forgot to include Paladin as a class option for Barbarians. But it was part of the original design given their main deity.

[Jimjam]

Do you think that big empty quarter of Halas, where they ended up putting beastlords, perhaps was meant to be the guild area for paladins (or more likely, was meant to be the shaman area and paladins were meant to get the church?)

I like the suggestion that The Tribunal isn't nice. Perhaps it is more about 'revenge' justice, than fairly resolving disputes?

[rajax]

Another player from the original release here: I vaguely remember them saying it was originally intended to allow Barbarians to be Paladins, the lore originally stated the "Barbarian" race was born from some sort of freaky Marr twin Union. But then later in development it was decided it made little sense given that EQ Barbarians were inspired by brutal and savage dark age Scots and Celts. Plus the EQ barbarians primarily worshipped The Tribunal which were described as harsh "Eye for an Eye" style vengeance deities favoring things like assassination not the legalistic version of justice that might inspire a paladin.

It's too bad, I definitely would have played a Barb paladin back in the day. Not just for Slam, those silver steel plate wearing barbnarians in the cities always looked the most Paladin-like to me.

[Kevynne]

Another player from the original release here: I vaguely remember them saying it was originally intended to allow Barbarians to be Paladins, the lore originally stated the "Barbarian" race was born from some sort of freaky Marr twin Union. But then later in development it was decided it made little sense given that EQ Barbarians were inspired by brutal and savage dark age Scots and Celts. Plus the EQ barbarians primarily worshipped The Tribunal which were described as harsh "Eye for an Eye" style vengeance deities favoring things like assassination not the legalistic version of justice that might inspire a paladin.

It's too bad, I definitely would have played a Barb paladin back in the day. Not just for Slam, those silver steel plate wearing barbnarians in the cities always looked the most Paladin-like to me.

i thought i was the only one who thought barb should get pally!
barb getting pally would be by far the best pally for min/maxing and pvp

[rajax]

Whether it was an "oversight" or part of the "vision" that prevented Barbarian Paladins from being a thing, I still remember losing a lot of interest in EQ around the time it was decided suddenly Halflings and Frogloks were the Paladins Norrath had always needed.

Well, either it was that or the total lack of free time after college.

[Morphidus]

Maybe The Tribunal does not have divine power?

[Rararboker]

Hey, you know, epics were given lvl 46 requirements because it was "intended". Maybe they will implement paladin as a playable class for barbarians. It was intended after all.

[Kevynne]

Hey, you know, epics were given lvl 46 requirements because it was "intended". Maybe they will implement paladin as a playable class for barbarians. It was intended after all.

[Jimjam]

It does seem like a big oversight though...

The zone doesn't seem particularly well designed to add an extra guild (though there is an empty corner that became beastlord/berserkers iirc), there aren't really any barbarian paladin NPCS, it's not a clickable option at character creation...

Honestly, to me, it sounds like one of the original devs thought barby pallies was a cool idea and everyone else pretty much vetoed him.

[Naethyn]

The Tribunal is neutral and Paladins are good aligned.

[SamwiseRed]

It does seem like a big oversight though...

The zone doesn't seem particularly well designed to add an extra guild (though there is an empty corner that became beastlord/berserkers iirc), there aren't really any barbarian paladin NPCS, it's not a clickable option at character creation...

Honestly, to me, it sounds like one of the original devs thought barby pallies was a cool idea and everyone else pretty much vetoed him.

i mean if they could be paladins that I can see the arguement for them being able to be clerics as well. barb cleric sounds pretty sweet. now that I think about it, half elves can be pallys and not clerics but one could argue since they are half human it is not the same.

[RTukka]

The Tribunal is neutral and Paladins are good aligned.

Karana and Prexus are neutral deities with paladin worshipers. The Tribunal is a pretty good fit for paladins compared to those more nature-oriented deities.

[Zill]

The Tribunal is more like a balancing force of fate, the justice they bring is subjective and not the objective knightly kind. Paladins wouldn't really have a set code to adhere to.

"The Tribunal follow a funadmental concept of cultural relativity. The Six Hammers themselves have on moral conscience, as they are the epitomy neutrality. While a High Elf would be condemned for practicing necromancy, a Troll may be sentenced for leniency towards Dwarven prisoners. Only the most serious of crimes get put before The Tribunal, for the punishment could be an eternal suffering and imprisonment within the Plane of Justice."

[Jimjam]

Reminds me of that episode from Red Dwarf where that timetravelling killer robot goes around judging people by their own standards to determine if they are fit to live.

[Sage Truthbearer]

Honestly, I never thought any of the paladin gods made sense for the class besides mithaniel marr. The tribunal fits more than brell serilis or many other ones.

[Beastagoog]

Barb Paladin would be sick. Slam is crazy good.

Also just mentally visualize a barb in full plate and fiery defender.

[elwing]

Barb Paladin would be sick.

As a Bertoxxulous Knight I would rejoice!

[rajax]

Not sure where a post about a non-classic change idea would go but I'll just put this here:

Would it be terribly broken if you could start a unique class/race/religion combo here? With one major requirement to keep these characters relatively rare.

Basically, I was thinking you could take any 50-60 character and choose to "retire" them. Removing them as a playable character and instead being able to create a single new character of any race and class combination. I was thinking a level 50 gets you a level 1 character and every level after that adds 5 levels to this replacement character or starting at level 50 for a level 60 retired character. Inventory, money, bank all carry over to the new character. If AA points were implemented I would probably refund them and let the new character have them available to spend again once they reached level 51. This character exchange would be a one time and permanent change barring a GM letting you revert a mistake or extreme buyers remorse.

So if you were willing to put in the time leveling to at least 50 you could make that Ogre Wizard, Halfling Bard, Gnome Monk or Barbarian Paladin you always wanted. There's probably tons of technical reasons this extremely not-classic idea would be hard or incredibly time consuming to implement (are there even monk animations for non-humans/iksars?). Tons of possible gearing issues with races having severe limitations or benefits in what they could wear (no robes for that ogre wizard etc). Assuming classes' religion requirements/limitations still would be in effect this could result in things like dark elf rangers of tunare that are KoS in their starting city with no trainer. So on and so forth.

Not expecting anything like this to happen just curious if this would significantly break the "balance" of the game in someway or if people would actually be interested in something with this high a requirement.