When to cast Slows

[eqravenprince]

I have my enchanter up to level 29. When should I cast Tepid Deeds? On easy mobs they die so quickly that it seems like a waste of mana. On hard mobs, the mob instantly aggros on me and does not go back to the tank until mob is under 50% health. And even cons or higher, I don't even bother casting cause it will get resisted 80% of the time and that is even with it tashed.

[falkun]

If the mob is dieing within a few seconds of slow landing, stop wasting the mana.
If you are ripping aggro off the tank by slowing, then you should have rooted the mob first.*
If you can't land slow, then you should have tashed and rooted it first.
If you still cannot land slow, then the camp you are at is too difficult for your level.

* If the tank is a knight and they are not casting their high aggro spell on the kill target, then you need to clarity/breeze them and then bitch at them for not making use of the unlimited mana.

[drktmplr12]

If the has a weapon that procs, you are usually pretty safe casting it after it does.

Distance also plays a role. The farther you are when you cast spells, the less likely a mob is going to beeline to you because of a slow.

Another alternative if you don't have a heavy caster group is to root the mob and have the tank use proximity agro. This is assuming the melee in your group understand that a rooted mob hits the closest thing to it.

[iruinedyourday]

all you have to do is make a game out of it! (https://youtu.be/2Pbywpi64Tg?t=37)

Pick a number like, 80.. Slow when mob gets to that %.. Then take note of what % it's at when it lands, if it seemed worth it (how many hp did you save the tank in the time it was slowed.. Maths.. Compare to mana cost and rate of heals etc) the try to +/- the 80 to like 85... See how high you can get it before you get Agro...

Then try to break that record.

[eqravenprince]

Yeah the % game is what I normally do, but sometimes I just root the slow right away. I miss playing a Rogue, life was easy, get behind mob and kill it.

[thufir]

Tash and slow immediately if playing with a paladin/shadowknight (and if you get aggro for longer than a few seconds you know you're playing with a bad one).
Tash, root, slow if playing with a warrior or other non-snap-aggro tank type.
Use the low-level root so you don't consume too much mana doing this. 30 mana is an acceptable insurance policy.

in both cases (at your level), if you can't land a slow early don't bother with it; thus the root prior to the slow. If you are waiting for % health by the time the slow lands it'll be basically useless (again, at your level). So root is your friend if you are not playing with a knight tank.

[Jimjam]

If the mob is equal or above the level of a warrior tank consider that taunt won't work on the mob, so you can't rely on the tank taunting slow off you. Also consider root will likely break early.

Something I've seen some people do against harder mobs, when a warrior is tanking, is to memblur the mob after it has been slowed. Not sure if this is a good idea, but at least it helps ensure the mob won't be beating on you after slow, even if it screws up the warriors lead!

[Nisse]

Lvl 29? I prolly wouldn't bother

[iruinedyourday]

Lvl 29? I prolly wouldn't bother

this is pretty on target, its nice to want to slow but really if you just root pulls for tanking, C everyone, an occasional mez during bad pulls, you'll be doing fine at this level as a groupable enchanter.

[eqravenprince]

Lvl 29? I prolly wouldn't bother

Besides keeping haste and clarity up, would you be casting suffocate each mob?

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Gotta understand, a mob coming into a camp has very little aggro, whatever the puller has on it from pulling. If you cast when mob is still above 90%, you are going to likely go straight to the top of that small aggro list.

So you find what % works for the grp/dps/classes you are playing with. It will, as a rule of thumb, be < 90%.

Depending on what is being killed, slow is either then worth it or not, and the deciding factor should be, how happy is the healer? If the healer has so much mana they are helping to melee the mob down, yeah, that slow is a waste of your time and you got other things you can spend your mana on. But if the healer is creeping too close to being at low mana all the time, then the slow is top priority, even if it is for only half the mob's health.

Welcome to being a utility class, where your goal is to do whatever makes it easier for others to do their jobs. The best enchanter strat is whatever makes it so the group doesn't even notice, except that no one is dying, everything is getting killed like clockwork, and even cockups on pulls just mean the group has a queue of mobs ready to go.

edit: root is just an aggro headache imo. Doing a root + slow on inc is just gonna make you eat all the healers mana if / when yer root breaks. It *is* the job of whoever is tanking to do whatever they can to obtain aggro, but you gotta help them out and do your stuff as chill as possible, right up against the line of being an aggro fool. Again, crucial to tune yourself to other peeps in the grp, mainly puller, tank, and healer. They each have their job, but yer job is to see how thy are playing, and help their jobs go as fast and deadly and stable as possible.

[Gimp]

Don't bother casting a shitty nuke or dot, just charm something, give it two rusty weapons and watch it melt stuff.

[eqravenprince]

this is pretty on target, its nice to want to slow but really if you just root pulls for tanking, C everyone, an occasional mez during bad pulls, you'll be doing fine at this level as a groupable enchanter.

I was wondering what the expectation is of an enchanter. I find charming to be quite risky. It breaks every other fight which is annoying. But my assumption is the good enchanters always have a charmed mob in group

[thufir]

I was wondering what the expectation is of an enchanter. I find charming to be quite risky. It breaks every other fight which is annoying. But my assumption is the good enchanters always have a charmed mob in group

You're charming mobs too high for you, then. Try ones that are on the low end of dark blue, or xp greens. And of course make sure the mob is tashed.

I used to think it was too hard to stick charm and didn't think much of charm as a result. I think it would be pretty hard for me to have been wronger there. Charm is one of the main reasons enchanters are so OP.

[iruinedyourday]

I was wondering what the expectation is of an enchanter. I find charming to be quite risky. It breaks every other fight which is annoying. But my assumption is the good enchanters always have a charmed mob in group

up until you are 45+ really, just providing C and mezzing occasional bad pulls is fine. If there is no wizard in the group you can always root to help the tank keep agro on him..

but really the value of C is just so good that simply casting that and waiting for a bad pull is enough.. also you can use level 4 mez to interrupt all caster mobs so they can never cast, which is nice.

once you get 45+ you can start having more successful charming and you become a GREAT dps addition, while also providing the C/mez/interrupt help...

pre 45 and charming is going to just suck so much mana from your healers that they will ask you to stop. You can do it, but it just doesn't last long at these low levels.. try what poster above me says about grabbing a low level mob, but be careful that you dont pick something so low that it does like no damage :)

also at 45+ you can start delving greedily into the deep dungeons of norrath solo or with a partner. ;)

[thufir]

pre 45 and charming is going to just suck so much mana from your healers that they will ask you to stop.
Nah, you can still do this. Just get mobs that are low end of db / xp green. Even an xp green mob is a great dps addition and they'll stay charmed for long enough to make it worthwhile.

The problem people get into is taking any db. Some dbs are tougher than others. The ones close to your level will break charm left and right and piss everyone off.

[eqravenprince]

you can use level 4 mez to interrupt all caster mobs so they can never cast


I didn't know this. Wow, I suck at playing an enchanter

[iruinedyourday]

Nah, you can still do this. Just get mobs that are low end of db / xp green. Even an xp green mob is a great dps addition and they'll stay charmed for long enough to make it worthwhile.

The problem people get into is taking any db. Some dbs are tougher than others. The ones close to your level will break charm left and right and piss everyone off.

in my experiance its just not worth it, but hey to each there own. I parsed green pond mobs against graveyard mobs in MM and was doing like 120 damage a pull heh compared to how much damage they would do to me during a break, just wasn't worth it IMO

[thufir]

in my experiance its just not worth it, but hey to each there own. I parsed green pond mobs against graveyard mobs in MM and was doing like 120 damage a pull heh compared to how much damage they would do to me during a break, just wasn't worth it IMO

You can mitigate this by parking the charmed mob away in case they break. But they probably shouldn't be breaking that often. Again it depends on what you charm. Some mobs have naturally higher MRs than others (knights in guk always have higher MR than the warriors and shamans for example).

You can always use the animation also, if you don't mind getting hit once to open things up. They are pretty underrated sources of damage, especially at lower levels. I find them more annoying on balance than the charmed pets though.

[iruinedyourday]

You can mitigate this by parking the charmed mob away in case they break. But they probably shouldn't be breaking that often. Again it depends on what you charm. Some mobs have naturally higher MRs than others (knights in guk always have higher MR than the warriors and shamans for example).

You can always use the animation also, if you don't mind getting hit once to open things up. They are pretty underrated sources of damage, especially at lower levels. I find them more annoying on balance than the charmed pets though.

Yea i think ho9neslty if you plan on being a solo chanter, its good to charm and screw worrying about your bitchy clerics mana anyway. It teaches you the strenghts of the ability and the what to do's and what to do not's... so yea, if it were me? Do it, damn the torpedos.. but if you want to just netflix and chill with this class.. you can is all im sayin

[Nisse]

Besides keeping haste and clarity up, would you be casting suffocate each mob?

Keep clarity and haste up and try to maintain a charm pet if at all possible, you'll be the largest contributing group member at that point no one can really bitch. If you have spare mana I would use it to maintain rune and berserker strength to cushion your charm breaks to make the healers life that much easier.

[Pope Hat]

Forget slows at that level. Just use a weaponized charm pet, tash, root, and keep everyone buffed.

[Troxx]

Unless it's a resistant set of mobs or real ass-beaters, I slow on incoming, often before the mob hits camp. Most all mobs are pansies once you slow em 70-75% and I don't mind taking a few hits.

At low levels unless solo/duo or maybe trio, slowing is not worth it. Mobs die to fast and your slow % isn't as large for the amount of mana it takes.

Bear in mind this is coming from the shaman perspective. We can take the hits a lot better than an ench can.

[LostCause]

common sense imo.

[Jimjam]

also worthy of note, while levelling up you may as well take a few hits anyway. It's gonna be better raising defense sooner than later!

[Ivory]

Slow it right away to get agro!!! Then run around so the archers can snare and shoot it!!!! Pew pew pew pew.

[Pyrion]

Only slow mobs that take at least a minute to kill.

For charming: Tash helps and don't forget your charisma. Charisma is a big bonus for charming. Always cast your self buff + always go for charisma when looking for gear. Charisma is the number one priority for chanters (and those items are usually quite cheap).

[Ordrek]

For charming: Tash helps and don't forget your charisma. Charisma is a big bonus for charming. Always cast your self buff + always go for charisma when looking for gear. Charisma is the number one priority for chanters (and those items are usually quite cheap).

Not trying to be a jerk, but what is the evidence for this? I've looked around and have only been able to find anecdotal evidence of no statistical value. Are there any...

A) Statements from the devs about how CHA impacts charm?
B) High test count data sets of CHA effect on charm break?
C) Someone looking at the code and seeing exactly how CHA affects Charm?

Without one of those, I don't think we can make conclusions about the effect of CHA on Charm.

[Daldaen]

Devs have explicitly stated CHA directly effects Enchanter and Bard charm durations. Necro and Druid charm durations are not CHA dependant.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186455&highlight=Charisma+charm

Haynar: Adjusted charisma check for charm, based on new 255 resist caps. Charm should be more dependable now.

[iruinedyourday]

Dald, this weekend I did the bear pits for the first time (finally). I was browsing the web trying to find any info about getting down there on my own (which was a cinch) and found a thread of yours from 2011 trying to learn how to do exactly the same thing.

It was nice to read a thread that indicates that you are human afterall and at one point didn't know how to do everything :)

[Ordrek]

Thank you Daldean! Exactly the sort of thing I was hoping would be provided. Now if only we knew the formula...

[SamwiseRed]

i generally pull a pack of mobs with slow so my group takes less dps from the ensuing train.