There is no “skill” in Everquest

[Fame]

What if there was?

Like anyone here I have come across numerous players who standout in the crowd. Many lay claims to this title but few ever offer proof.

What if you had that chance?

Simple survey to gage interest in a level playing field.

**”Fair” PvP means ~equal gear sets**

[EatitNerd]

Huh?

[Fame]

Huh?

Part of a ongoing series of simple anon surveys for the red community.

The bigger picture will become clear in due time.

[EatitNerd]

You do realize there will never be a such thing as fair pvp right?

[Fame]

Yeah, I know eq is not balanced ect ect.

The term "fair" in this survey specifically means a close to equal set of gear for the players.

For the rest of it, all is fair in love and war.

[Fame]

Also, this isn't about revolutionizing the main game. People gonna do what they do. This survey is part of the planning process for developing a player made/ran event with potential GM support.

If anyone has questions feel free to shoot me pms, would like to keep the survey posts somewhat clean if possible.

[Mus3t11]

Red is dead

[Nirgon]

I regret to inform you there is skill involved

[Colgate]

sig

[Fame]

I regret to inform you there is skill involved

sig

Fellas, I think there is skill in Everquest I've seen it numerous times.

One of the primary excuses for not engaging in pvp I hear is gear gap this, gear gap that.

Again, this is just a small part of a larger project a few pals and I are developing.

godbless

[Varren]

Fame, I'm all with you in your efforts to encourage pvp, and would happily engage in the training battles you've pitched. I don't understand what you mean, though... handing out gear sets to people?

edit: and there is skill in everquest. certain people have a certain acuity, some don't. some are pvp aces, some just haven't grasped the groove.

[Fame]

Fame, I'm all with you in your efforts to encourage pvp, and would happily engage in the training battles you've pitched. I don't understand what you mean, though... handing out gear sets to people?

edit: and there is skill in everquest. certain people have a certain acuity, some don't. some are pvp aces, some just haven't grasped the groove.

Awesome! Heh we're not gonna be handing out sets. There is a plan in the works though for a low level progression pvp league system that aims to include everyone during off raid hours but also serves as a population perception boost for new players coming to red. (I know red is "dead" but I don't give a fuck I love this game lol)

There is a lot more and a mountain of details to get through but I think eventually we might get something rolling that could help improve population.

Baby steps.

[Fame]

PS This plan also includes a role for griefers, we're all people.

onelove

[Vile]

Fame, I am proud of you for still representing <Forum Quest>. Ayonae Ro beams her smile down upon you.

[dacBANe666]

AYRO

[Xaanka]

Fame, I am proud of you for still representing <Forum Quest>. Ayonae Ro beams her smile down upon you.

you played on Ayonae Ro too?

[Platexchange]

Skill is a relative term when it comes to EQ. Does it take skill to know proper pvp mechanics and how to best play your class? Maybe. But I've seen even skilled players lose to unlucky RNG. That's the thing a lot of people don't like to discuss. For all we want it to be skill based, you're still a nerd rolling a d20 dice praying your numbers land higher than the person you're fighting. Gear helps with the plus column but even on equal footing the skill gap between a decent player and a good one is very minimal.

[SamwiseRed]

eq takes time more than anything. time and numbers.

[Jazzy]

Dunno bros

compare gasoline and riding

gear cant be that much different can it?

Whole different league of ability


(edit: no offence intended - just the example most here can probably get)

[easy_lee]

Trouble with EQ PvP is that it's knowledge > skill > gear, but only to a point. Knowledge of buff order, corner casting, how to handle specific classes, etc. is the biggest factor.

But if you don't have at least ~70MR and your opponent knows it, they can land spells on you which shouldn't land. And at low levels, twinks with shaman buffs can only be dealt with via large numbers.

I'm very much in favor of PvP leagues and have spent time simply buffing and protecting new toons while they level on my druid. I think those two things, assisting new players and giving them a good reason to PvP, are the best things we can do to improve pop. And there are plenty of people on the server doing the former.

Improving pop may not matter. If the rules don't change, the server will stay the same as it is with the zerg dominating the endgame, same as always. But maybe a higher pop will get the administration to pay attention to red again.

[maerilith]

Anyone who hasn't answered "I will grief" is obviously a noob and has never pvpd b4.

[El Camacho]

Dunno bros

compare gasoline and riding

gear cant be that much different can it?

Whole different league of ability

True that there are players who are very good at the game and those less good, but overall though I think most play EQ for the challenges it offers.

Currently most of that challenge is gone for the bulk of the server.


Overwhelming content and pvp with massive numbers and/or large gear advantage to the point where there really isn't much challenge anymore is pretty boring and people are leaving.

I think that the spirit of the thread is that it is becoming more difficult to find fun or challening engagements. Opinions vary as to why, but all pretty much end up the same.

[easy_lee]

True that there are players who are very good at the game and those less good, but overall though I think most play EQ for the challenges it offers.

Currently most of that challenge is gone for the bulk of the server.

I agree with this. It's one of many reasons I'd be on favor of yearly resets.

[Guido]

its time to stop posting.

[Qtip]

I agree with this. It's one of many reasons I'd be on favor of yearly resets.

Do yearly resets and people will just stop coming back. I invest maybe 2-3 hours a day to playing. All on my time and when I feel like logging in. Other people play 10+ hours a day farming, raiding and responding to batphones. Resetting the server fucks over all the people who actually put time into the game to get where they are at.

[easy_lee]

Do yearly resets and people will just stop coming back. I invest maybe 2-3 hours a day to playing. All on my time and when I feel like logging in. Other people play 10+ hours a day farming, raiding and responding to batphones. Resetting the server fucks over all the people who actually put time into the game to get where they are at.

Only if there are no rewards for people who completed major objectives. For example, a sample reset system:

Reset every year, in accordance with the classic timeline.
Rewards for server firsts. If you're part of the first raid to down X target, you get a unique item (such as da oogly stick) which carries over after the reset.
Titles for people who have X PvP kills, which carry over.


And so on. Rogean said he'd never do resets, but he also said we'd have a classic server. This server's mechanics aren't classic; YT and the EXP boost are just two obvious examples of why.

And people like you, who think everyone will just quit if the server is reset, don't understand why people play here in the first place. There are basically four major motivations: get the best gear, get PvP kills, be part of the p1999 community, or be the first to do something.

Resets don't stop people from doing any of those things, and actually make the journey more meaningful since it's fresh every time. In fact, the fourth motivation is only possible with resets, since almost everything has already been done. If you start here now, having a fungi or AoN or an epic doesn't mean anything because there are thousands floating around. People who've been here a while have hundreds of thousands of Plat and multiple fully geared toons.

On live, seeing an epic or a BiS was a big deal, because there weren't many. It gave new players something to strive towards. Reset, and those things become meaningful again.

[Kergan]

It is basically the choice between keeping your word (no wipes, ever) and dealing with the slow death of the server, or going back on your word, pissing a lot of people off and losing credibility but potentially rebuilding the server to a sustainable state. There is a chance the server is even more dead 3 months after the wipe. There is a chance it thrives on a standard timeline. There is even a chance that if left alone the population stabilizes in a way that makes the server sustainable and also interesting - even if that is very unlikely.

In the end, I tend to believe what will happen is the scenario that requires the least involvement of staff. In this case, its just leave the server alone to die in agony.

[miraclegrow2]

its time to stop posting.

Rebuff

[Vile]

you played on Ayonae Ro too?

Yes, theres a bunch of Loyal Servants of Ayonae Ro I've helped cross over to EQ Emu PvP.

Before PRAS there was 'AYRO'

[Vile]

Cyclical server wipes/reset are the answer -- I've been saying this for years now.

Keep the old server... and once the cyclical server phases out, move those characters to the non "ladder" server. You pixel cry babies won't lose your loots this way.

[Kergan]

Not trying to be a downer here, but if I were server staff I would be more concerned with keeping the 85% of my total playerbase who plays on blue interested than trying to appease the 15% who play on PVP.

The best thing for everyone would be for them to essentially "loan" their code to someone who cares about building a good PVP server. Not holding my breath on that though.

[Vile]

The best thing for everyone would be for them to essentially "loan" their code to someone who cares about building a good PVP server. Not holding my breath on that though.

Yea... but like you said.. never gonna happen.

P99 will go on... with or without a PvP server.

[Kergan]

Maybe some day, Nilbog and Rogean will decide they want to bail and open up the source code. I understand why they keep it under lock and key, it is the bread and butter of the only legitimized emu in MMORPG history. In a lot of ways, they changed the entire industry.

I can also understand that they are working stiffs who do this on their free time, in addition to other things they probably enjoy doing in their free time. So, when you're taking a fraction of a fraction of your time it makes sense to dedicate it to where it'll have the highest impact (i.e. where 85% of your users reside).

There are people who would absolutely jump at the chance to develop a custom PVP server utilizing the code of P99. Just bring one of those people on staff ffs, and give everyone what they want.

[EatitNerd]

Dunno bros

compare gasoline and riding

gear cant be that much different can it?

Whole different league of ability


(edit: no offence intended - just the example most here can probably get)


Jazzy it's confirmed that you haven't ever been seen by riding or gasoline in game so how would you know? Either of them would beat anyone in your guild in a 1v1 (not too hard, especially with OP windstriker).

Also gear gap even between those 2 are pretty big considering gaso has a life and for a couple months there was very casual raiding. 2 weeks ago I would have pointed out you all were just scared of someone that just had silver chains as his only real velious loot lol

Loot HistoryDateNameRaid
01/26/16 Sleeper's Key Lord Yelinak
01/14/16 Feeliux's Cord of Velocity Vulak'Aerr
12/02/15 Shovel of the Harvest Gozzrem
11/19/15 Melodic Necklace Aaryonar
11/19/15 Katana of Pain Aaryonar
11/18/15 Amulet of Necropotence Cazic Thule
10/14/15 Mithril Boots Lady Mirenilla
09/20/15 Mithril Gauntlets Lady Mirenilla
09/14/15 Tanglewood Shield Wuoshi
08/16/15 Hammer of Battle Statue of Rallos Zek
08/12/15 Silver Girdle of Stability Lendiniara the Keeper


Compared to

02/11/16 Shovel of the Harvest Gozzrem
02/10/16 Sleeper's Key Lendiniara the Keeper
02/02/16 Tolan`s Longsword of the Glade Vulak'Aerr
02/02/16 Mithril Boots Lady Mirenilla
01/06/16 Silver Chains Jorlleag
08/08/15 Nevedaria's Claw Lady Nevedaria

[Kevynne]

I regret to inform you there is skill involved

only if you're a melee

[Nirgon]

only if you're a melee

Given my time in OOT and watching other wizards chase Smallmee with a winged death on them until they got to 30% and he finished them as they tried to gate...

I'd say there's a pretty wide skill gap

[HippoNipple]

Given my time in OOT and watching other wizards chase Smallmee with a winged death on them until they got to 30% and he finished them as they tried to gate...

I'd say there's a pretty wide skill gap

It is knowledge vs skill. This is not a skill game. It is knowing what you should do in certain situations... and in this game I'm not talking about lightning fast decisions. You have plenty of time to set up your buff order and then when a winged death hits you, casually think, oh I should dispel this.

If you make the mistake of chasing down someone with a dot on you it should only be a 1 time mistake.

[Kevynne]

It is knowledge vs skill. This is not a skill game. It is knowing what you should do in certain situations... and in this game I'm not talking about lightning fast decisions. You have plenty of time to set up your buff order and then when a winged death hits you, casually think, oh I should dispel this.

If you make the mistake of chasing down someone with a dot on you it should only be a 1 time mistake.

The only skill i believe is in the game is jousting for melees, but that may be because i'm terrible at playing melees

[Nirgon]

It is knowledge vs skill. This is not a skill game. It is knowing what you should do in certain situations... and in this game I'm not talking about lightning fast decisions. You have plenty of time to set up your buff order and then when a winged death hits you, casually think, oh I should dispel this.

If you make the mistake of chasing down someone with a dot on you it should only be a 1 time mistake.

call it what you want, it was just someone being absolutely turrible at the game

I bind sighted many of these fights and frowned hard as fuck

[easy_lee]

Knowledge: What you need to know to be good at the game. Ex: how to corner cast, zone layout, which spells to cast on who and how likely they are to be resisted.

Skill: reflexes, visual cues, and muscle memory used to execute commands properly. Ex: jousting, being able to corner cast without a corner.

It's pedantic. Suffice it to say that there is a large gap between total newbies and veterans.

[SamwiseRed]

call it what you want, it was just someone being absolutely turrible at the game

I bind sighted many of these fights and frowned hard as fuck

it is mostly farmers in OOT. i murdered people there on my wizard too. half of them would just loot corpse and keep farming. they are only there for one thing and since you can drawn youself to get full mana back, there is no stopping them.

[iruinedyourday]

Does a panther lack skill in hunting, becuse he waits in the shadows until the weak youngling is distracted and far enough from the pack to be ripped him from limb to limb?

[SamwiseRed]

we comparing how animals behave in real-life with elf sim?

[easy_lee]

Does a panther lack skill in hunting, becuse he waits in the shadows until the weak youngling is distracted and far enough from the pack to be ripped him from limb to limb?

That's strategy. Skill is the part where it takes a swing and knowledge is knowing that there will be stragglers.

So when Imawizard sees someone in lesser faydark on /who, he has knowledge that they might be at the sisters camp, and the strategy of being a wizard of higher level than they're likely to be who may or may not have a friend with him and will be invisible (not everyone has BotH). The skill is just him hitting the nuke button, which is why people say ganker wizards have no skill.

But again, pedantic.

[iiNGloriouS]

Yes

[SamwiseRed]

panthers are pussies.

[iruinedyourday]

Is it skill when you know that someone who gated in OOT and is still in the zone, might be on island X and if not will be on Island Y and likely will be meddling in the spot under a tree A and if not is likely meddling under tree B... and then getting there before they can shout HAX and killing them at their bind point?

[easy_lee]

Is it skill when you know that someone who gated in OOT and is still in the zone, might be on island X and if not will be on Island Y and likely will be meddling in the spot under a tree A and if not is likely meddling under tree B... and then getting there before they can shout HAX and killing them at their bind point?

I'd call that knowledge. But knowledge, skill, and strategy could all loosely be grouped under Skill.

[Vile]

skill in EQ pvp is knowledge and strategy.. that's about it there's only so many variables depending on the class your up against and then there's always the RNG that comes into place.

it's not a skill you could compare to lets say counter strike.. and i'd say EQ "skill" is much easier to obtain...

[Sirban]

Not sure what u talkin about so I voted grief

[Samsung]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-TbvTH7iXM

WB!

[Nirgon]

you got any youtubes on how to run a guild in EQ

[SamwiseRed]

yea live with mom and never log out

[iruinedyourday]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-TbvTH7iXM

just to be clear, you dont have to click on this link to know what it is.

[Uuruk]

Is it possible the main person talking in that video is a tranny?

[Nirgon]

it was a rude awakening that I needed to brush up on my scum game to compete here

and bitch you know its true

[grannock]

Eq is a time investment strategy game. The more effecient you are with your time the more skill you have. Some people play a few hours a week and run this box, others play a solid 5 hours a day and have absolutely nothing to show for it.

I think im gonna go farm an untaged alt to get 500 pointless yts on the leaderboard in 30 mins rather than camp bindpoints for 6 months straight. Seems like a way better use of my time. Skillz.

[bolo]

True that there are players who are very good at the game and those less good, but overall though I think most play EQ for the challenges it offers.

Currently most of that challenge is gone for the bulk of the server.


Overwhelming content and pvp with massive numbers and/or large gear advantage to the point where there really isn't much challenge anymore is pretty boring and people are leaving.

I think that the spirit of the thread is that it is becoming more difficult to find fun or challening engagements. Opinions vary as to why, but all pretty much end up the same.

Spot on

[Doors]

Lite you should have linked the youtube from sirkens tourny.

You know the one where your A team got smoked and gongshow got a dark elf mask.

[Doors]

Eddard Holocaust Brennard Azrael The Overthere 0.74 January 25 2015 2:41:40 PM

Selective memory problems I guess.

[iruinedyourday]

Lite you should have linked the youtube from sirkens tourny.

You know the one where your A team got smoked and gongshow got a dark elf mask.

lite thinks Youtube is 1tube...

[fan D]

yea live with mom and never log out

works for me ;)