Shaman vs. Cleric

[xaxis]

I'll try to make this succinct. I've just started on P99 (loving it so far) but I'm torn between shaman and cleric. As I'm just starting out I'm not overly invested in either character but I want to commit to a character, not play AltQuest (yet). I'll list pros and cons for each (as I see them) but feel I should also mention I have no intent on ever raiding so keep that in mind please.

Shaman (troll):
+Super solo (whatever, wherever)
+Uber buffs
+Versatile play style
-No clear group role (I can do everything but don't know what I'm expected to do)
-Evil power (will never roll barbie) = Travel restrictions
-Rediculous amount of shamans out there

Cleric (dwarf):
+Soloability (vs. Undead, if I have to)
+Uber heals
+Clearly defined role
+Easy Travel
-Soloability is restricted/dependent
-On the back lines so not ninja proof (dunno how legit this point is but it is a consideration that occurred while reading a wiki guide)
-Generally more dependant

All of these are experiences, opinions, or concerns so if any of it is inaccurate I'm looking to be corrected. Thanks in advance!

[Xaanka]

I'll try to make this succinct. I've just started on P99 (loving it so far) but I'm torn between shaman and cleric. As I'm just starting out I'm not overly invested in either character but I want to commit to a character, not play AltQuest (yet). I'll list pros and cons for each (as I see them) but feel I should also mention I have no intent on ever raiding so keep that in mind please.

Shaman (troll):
+Super solo (whatever, wherever)
+Uber buffs
+Versatile play style
-No clear group role (I can do everything but don't know what I'm expected to do)
-Evil power (will never roll barbie) = Travel restrictions
-Rediculous amount of shamans out there

Cleric (dwarf):
+Soloability (vs. Undead, if I have to)
+Uber heals
+Clearly defined role
+Easy Travel
-Soloability is restricted/dependent
-On the back lines so not ninja proof (dunno how legit this point is but it is a consideration that occurred while reading a wiki guide)
-Generally more dependant

All of these are experiences, opinions, or concerns so if any of it is inaccurate I'm looking to be corrected. Thanks in advance!

Shaman has a defined role in groups and raids, it's as a Slower/buffer. Seems boring, but Slow is the best PvE spell in the game.

Let me ask you, what are you going for in p99? Do you just want to mess around and experience the ride to 60, or are you looking to get into the endgame and raiding scene?

What server are you on? If you're on blue, you should consider that the Essential Must Have Class Defining spell for shamans, Torpor, sells for hundreds of thousands of platinum and scrolls are hoarded by guilds in order to artificially inflate the cost. If you don't think you'll have the kind of money to spend on Toropor any time soon, you'll have a much better time playing a Cleric I'll be honest with you. They're both equally "good" classes in different niches, but it takes a significantly smaller time investment to get a playable 60 cleric than it does a 60 playable shaman on blue.

>> if you're on red you can ignore that part. torpor scrolls are rare to find for sale, but the prices are actually somewhat reasonable and attainable for a new player on the pvp server. on blue LOL good luck hope you like farming jugs for hundreds of hours <<

Clerics are EXTREMELY group dependent. You can solo some undead experience spots but that's about it. You can't solo anything outside of that. Clerics are amazing Duo farmers, but solo? trash.

[xaxis]

Thanks Xaanka, this was exactly the kind or reply I was hoping to get! First, to answer some of your questions: I'm on blue, and here just to enjoy the ride and reminisce. I only have the time, and desire, to be "casual scum". That being the case, it sounds like a cleric's life for me. I knew of torpor but not about the cost/pain in getting it so I really appreciate the heads up on that one. Let the grind begin!

[Xaanka]

Shaman is plenty of fun 1-60 without torpor, but once you get to 60 you'll find that it's pretty necessary to have especially for casual stuff like healing 6 man groups and solo/duoing. The easiest path a new-to-the-server Shaman would take to get Torpor, would be to get into a raiding guild and hope it gets awarded to him, but this may not appeal to you if you play casually yknow?
On the flip side, you pretty much always have to be grouped as a Cleric in order to have something to do in EQ. Even at 60 without a duo partner there just isn't really much you can do beyond standing in the tunnel and looking cool. So at 60, as a Shaman, at least you can occupy yourself with "trying to get a Torpor scroll" if that makes sense :]
The likleihood of a casually played Cleric becoming a badass (and come on now, that's why we all play this game) is a lot higher than a Shaman, but the Shaman might be a bit more fun for the casual type player to play because they can solo?
They're both really fun classes though. You can't go wrong.

[brecon]

The journey to 60 is long and should be rewarding. If you're going into this to play a single character and grind to 60, then I think the major consideration should be the path from 1-60. Maybe when you hit 60 you'll want to raid, or roll an alt, or keep playing at 60 to farm cash and gear. Personally, I really enjoy single-grouping in dungeons on my 60 toon, which lots of raiders never seem to do.

Shaman and Cleric are both highly desired in groups. The major con to a cleric is that you can't solo almost anything after the Ass/Sup camp in Lguk...so around 45. Up until 45, if you wanted to, you could solo using undead nukes - but it is a very slow process. Clerics shine in groups, avoiding any aggro at all and keeping up heals and buffs. Really good clerics keep up stuns for casters and gaters, and truly exceptional clerics can pull well if there are enough back-up healers, using lull and DA/DB.

The 'pro' for a cleric is that you are like, not gear dependent at all. All of your usefulness comes from your spells, and there is no way besides super raid gear (FT, the VP clicky heal staff and DD weapon, and some velious few proc weapons) that can improve either your mana regen or group utility. You can easily level to 60 in bronze. You will want to steadily build up your wisdom, mana and svm, but for grouping your mana pool just isn't a big deal in most cases.

Shamans are a lot more versatile. They get more utility spells than a cleric (no lull, but invis, levi, EB, Sow). They get mana-efficient dots. They get slows, which are absurdely overpowered, and they get haste, and they get malo. They can regen mana with canni, and they get regen spells to speed that process along. Oh, and they get a pet, which does respectable damage too.

So shamans can solo a lot better, but are also very desired in groups because of slow. Druids can't solo heal 50+ dungeons that effectively, but with slow, a shaman can, even without torpor. The problem (or benefit) for the shaman is that there is a lot of gear that can make a shaman more effective, and you will want it. Worn-hp regen is the first thing that every shaman wants. A JBB is another highly desired item. The epic, of course. That alone will set you back 100k+ on blue, assuming you don't camp them yourself, and that's before we even talk about the 55+ shaman spells: Torpor, Bane, Pox, Malo.

A 60 shaman with all his spells and gear is EQ god mode. It makes encounters trivial that a 60 BIS Velious cleric couldn't do solo (unless you count puppet strings). I've leveled both to 60, and I don't have any desire to touch my cleric, but I'm always looking for dungeon groups and duos on my shaman.

[xaxis]

at least you can occupy yourself with "trying to get a Torpor scroll" if that makes sense :]

That makes a lot of sense, or at least it does to me ;).

It also goes along with a lot of what brecon had to say which was also some awesome info. Unfortunately, now I'm torn again. I don't think I'd mind the hunt for Torpor as I like to be goal oriented and that would give me a "quest" at 60. But the total non-gear dependence of a cleric IS appealing. I wouldn't mind being group dependent as long as groups are easy to find which leads me to a new question: are groups easy to get?

They have been for me so far but I don't know if that's my level, because I'm lucky, or if I just haven't noticed not having one because I can do shit on my own until I get one...

[RDawg816]

With a cleric, you will generally do the same thing in every group. Buff, med, heal, med, etc. with slight variations.

With a shaman, your role will change based on the group. Do you need to slow? Do you need to be CC? Do people need buffs (and if so, which of the 27 do they need?) Are you hasting? Are you off-tanking? Is your pet off-tanking? Etc, etc.

The more you do as a shaman, the more you will be canni-dancing, and the less likely you'll have time to go AFK. The more you do as a cleric, the more you will be medding for mana and watching tv or going AFK.

Both are sought out in groups. Usually shaman are sought out for duos/trios as well. Nobody turns a cleric away either, though.

TL;DR The shaman is a lot more active (read:clicks A LOT), whereas the cleric is more laid back (reads:meds A LOT)

[Celatus]

Dont forget shaman at 60 requires about 200k in dropped spells where as the cleric does not.

[Baler]

Dont forget shaman at 60 requires about 200k in dropped spells where as the cleric does not.

And another 200k in gear.

[brecon]

Dont forget shaman at 60 requires about 200k in dropped spells where as the cleric does not.

Way to read past posts in thread about Torpor grind. Killing it.

[xaxis]

I see the endgame costs as a legit concern but as a shaman I'll be able to solo/farm the money needed correct? Or do I need all that shit to be able to solo?

[brecon]

The game changes for a shaman at 60 when you get Torpor. The types of camps you an do increases dramatically. Pre-torpor, you are doing like 2-5k items. With torpor you can go after 15k+ items.

But you are still great at duoing without torpor. It's called the torpor grind for a reason, it takes time. But ideally you find a group of friends in a guild, and start farming seb crypt in your 50s...a good place to get some shaman spells.

[Troxx]

My shaman is 58. I have none of the pricey spells. I didn't get my fungi until 57. I don't have epic.

Even without those, I feel borderline god mode. I can cover heals well enough in a 6 man that the cleric could go to sleep. With slow and 3 minute root, who needs mez? Troll regen is just godly paired with canni (fungi just makes it insane).

A shaman without epic and torpor is still a demigod compared to most other classes.

I can solo.
I can duo with literally any other class.
With some classes I can duo content such that it's better than a full group.
I can fit into a group of any size, and generally cover slower, healer, and cc duty.

The only group I've learned to never take an invite to is me + 5 melee. Fuck that, too much work and I can't keep up.

I'm not worried about torpor. It'll happen or it won't. If it doesn't I still have an incredibly overpowered class that can do fun stuff alone or with others ... And always pull my weight.

[xaxis]

Alright, I've made my final decision and it is...Shaman! Thanks for all the help and info everyone.

[Baler]

/who all shaman count = 113
/who all cleric count = 83
as of this post on blue. Just sayin.

Ps. makes friends with an enchanter and go do whatever you want.
shm/ech or cleric/ench are some of the strongest duos.

[xaxis]

I was actually going to roll chanter first but caster in EQ get face rolled to easily for the time I can commit. I know that's not what you were talking about necessarily but /shrug

[Kevynne]

Shaman is plenty of fun 1-60 without torpor, but once you get to 60 you'll find that it's pretty necessary to have especially for casual stuff like healing 6 man groups and solo/duoing. The easiest path a new-to-the-server Shaman would take to get Torpor, would be to get into a raiding guild and hope it gets awarded to him, but this may not appeal to you if you play casually yknow?
On the flip side, you pretty much always have to be grouped as a Cleric in order to have something to do in EQ. Even at 60 without a duo partner there just isn't really much you can do beyond standing in the tunnel and looking cool. So at 60, as a Shaman, at least you can occupy yourself with "trying to get a Torpor scroll" if that makes sense :]
The likleihood of a casually played Cleric becoming a badass (and come on now, that's why we all play this game) is a lot higher than a Shaman, but the Shaman might be a bit more fun for the casual type player to play because they can solo?
They're both really fun classes though. You can't go wrong.

i played a cleric on blue 1-57. would not do again, it is just mindnumbingly (is that a word?) boring. either you are perma oom, or you dont heal at all ad just sit there. sometimes you get a decent group that requires attention and thats when its fun to be a cleric.
in general tho i do agree with everything xaanka has said

[Kevynne]

I was actually going to roll chanter first but caster in EQ get face rolled to easily for the time I can commit. I know that's not what you were talking about necessarily but /shrug

this is not true.
casters are the best class to start wth (and druids)
naked they are still useful and can still do everything they can do twinked just as good
in addition, a geared chanter and an ungeeared enchanter will get shit fucked by your hasted charm break pet. personal eexperience

[RDawg816]

I have a naked enchanter. He has nothing in most slots (even hands are empty)...only has a few pieces of damask armor. Occasionally I'll log him in and kill guards for a bit and camp out. I agree that wouldn't be possible with a melee class...

[xaxis]

I have a naked enchanter. He has nothing in most slots (even hands are empty)...only has a few pieces of damask armor. Occasionally I'll log him in and kill guards for a bit and camp out. I agree that wouldn't be possible with a melee class...

Thanks for the constructively sarcastic comment. I enjoy RnF threads...oh wait...

Anyways, I didn't mean casters are always doomed just that the super early level are not as forgiving as they are for more "hearty" classes.

[RDawg816]

I was commenting on the post above mine about how casters can play without gear to some extent. /shrug

[Raev]

i played a cleric on blue . . . either you are perma oom, or you dont heal at all ad just sit there

This is pretty typical cleric play, but the class itself is quite powerful and flexible. Stuns to prevent casters from nuking/healing or help enchanters recharm. Root is solid CC quite frequently. Memblur is always useful - when was the last time you saw a cleric memblur a mezzed mob and save a Divine Light on the enchanter? Never? Me too. Calm is actually quite reasonable for splitting, especially if you are a High Elf and/or carry a charisma set, or you can pull off all sorts of crazy shit with rezboxes.

So I think this thread has somewhat overstated the flexibility of a shaman vs a cleric. As a leveling/farming cleric, your goal is to suck up to every Enchanter you meet until you have 10-15 on speed dial. Then you have either a solid duo, or you can add a melee (pretty much any will do), or go for a full group.

Note: I will never roll a cleric, because then I would never get to bring anything else to raids :D

[Xaanka]

Note: I will never roll a cleric, because then I would never get to bring anything else to raids :D

Roll a rogue. I can't ever bring my cleric to raids because I main a rogue.