Liberal re-education camps in America

[Blitzers]

How do you get Americans to voluntarily go to re-education camps?

Make it free, and call it a University.

[Big_Japan]

How do you get Americans to voluntarily go to re-education camps?

Make it free, and call it a University.

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lookout zionists you got a lot of angry dudes with thumbs POd

[Baler]

Kind of like how public schools teach atheism except kids are forced to go and learn that.

The sad part is people are choosing to go to these 'universities'.

PC BRO

[ronasch]

"It's when people forget God Tyrants forge their chains." Patrick Henry

[Daywolf]

University? They start that stuff back in like pre-school now. They get 13yrs of liberal indoctrination before they even reach college. As a Gen-Xer, in my day we had open vocal prayer in school over the PA, to Jesus, by students. Then they said couldn't do that any longer, that was jr.high. In high school, they cut the pledge of allegiance, only allowed the national anthem. In college, yeah they hung banners around the second floor railings about atheism and macro evolution... well just evolution, most of them didn't know the difference from micro and macro blurring them together. And don't even mention the national anthem.

And that was then... now is way further down the line to where they want to get to, including fear tactics scaring the kids. They all think they are going to die from GlObAl WaaarmNG!! Geez, it was nothing but a fruit loop joke by a bunch of whack jobs to us. But now kids actually fear that they will die from it one day... so very sad. Same old line they fed us in the 70's, and doom was just around the corner. Almost 50yrs later, still using the same BS, but more organized mow, good money in it.

[Bush]

Your kind said the same thing about free elementary school however many years ago.

[iruinedyourday]

hehe once when we killed osama bin laden i was in arkansas and my head up his ass uncle was all upset about some like 500k or something that the gov got from somewhere and was like, we get to spend free money!

He was all upset that we were going to blow it on some dumb thing, rightly so. So I thought, well this is a way we can bond, I can say we shoudl spend it on education! Nobody could possibly disagree with that! Conservative or liberal!

then he goes, 'problem with spending it on education is then the kids go home to their parents and learn all this dumb shit so spending it on education is dumb too!'

I was like, welp I guess there are types of people who should just kill them selves they hate life so much but never do.

those people are called republicans. They're probably registered as independents so they can feel like they are not smart.

[JackFlash]

hehe once when we killed osama bin laden i was in arkansas and my head up his ass uncle was all upset about some like 500k or something that the gov got from somewhere and was like, we get to spend free money!

He was all upset that we were going to blow it on some dumb thing, rightly so. So I thought, well this is a way we can bond, I can say we shoudl spend it on education! Nobody could possibly disagree with that! Conservative or liberal!

then he goes, 'problem with spending it on education is then the kids go home to their parents and learn all this dumb shit so spending it on education is dumb too!'

I was like, welp I guess there are types of people who should just kill them selves they hate life so much but never do.

those people are called republicans. They're probably registered as independents so they can feel like they are not smart.

English is hard.

[Raev]

This thread hurts my feelings, and my feelings are more important than truth.

Mods, please ban OP and make this forum a safe place for me.

Pagan, you are a superb forumquester. I salute you.

[Daywolf]

was all upset about some like 500k or somethingpfff... gmo chicken feed fed to inbred half-pig half-human future masters of the human race and all animal and alien kind. Not even enough to build a new tranny bathroom in one single solitary school :rolleyes:
Gotta dig even deeper into someone elses pockets to impress us next time.

[iruinedyourday]

pfff... gmo chicken feed fed to inbred half-pig half-human future masters of the human race and all animal and alien kind. Not even enough to build a new tranny bathroom in one single solitary school :rolleyes:
Gotta dig even deeper into someone elses pockets to impress us next time.

Do you remember that tho? it was like some mystery money they found like same day they killed osama.. fox was all over it, and since i was in my head up the ass uncles in arkansas, we were all over fox.

Still confused about how i feel having Geraldo Rivera tell me, Osama Bin Laden has been killed.

[Blitzers]

hehe once when we killed osama bin laden i was in arkansas and my head up his ass uncle was all upset about some like 500k or something that the gov got from somewhere and was like, we get to spend free money!

He was all upset that we were going to blow it on some dumb thing, rightly so. So I thought, well this is a way we can bond, I can say we shoudl spend it on education! Nobody could possibly disagree with that! Conservative or liberal!

then he goes, 'problem with spending it on education is then the kids go home to their parents and learn all this dumb shit so spending it on education is dumb too!'

I was like, welp I guess there are types of people who should just kill them selves they hate life so much but never do.

those people are called republicans. They're probably registered as independents so they can feel like they are not smart.

IRUINEDYOURDAY, just because your the son of a thousand fathers with no hope in finding the felon who filled your mother with his seed doesn't mean everyone else's parents were dumb.

Not to mention your the posterboy on why people shouldn't send their kids to public school. Yes, when it comes to YOU our tax dollars were wasted.

[Fame]

you guys ever live life or just bitch about it on elf forums?

[George_Costanza]

pfff... gmo chicken feed fed to inbred half-pig half-human future masters of the human race and all animal and alien kind. Not even enough to build a new tranny bathroom in one single solitary school :rolleyes:
Gotta dig even deeper into someone elses pockets to impress us next time.

https://youtu.be/Cwrvug5fAN8?t=24s

[Ahldagor]

you guys ever live life or just bitch about it on elf forums?

It's some sad virtual socializing that is accomplished. Helped a good friend of mine start a brewery and p99 forums and game just got sad to me. Really amazing what happens to you when you build something.

[iruinedyourday]

IRUINEDYOURDAY, just because your the son of a thousand fathers with no hope in finding the felon who filled your mother with his seed doesn't mean everyone else's parents were dumb.

I will find you in your dreams where you don a wizard's robe and aren't confined to a wheelchair and end u https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGQQfE9NI-A

[MrSparkle001]

University? They start that stuff back in like pre-school now. They get 13yrs of liberal indoctrination before they even reach college. As a Gen-Xer, in my day we had open vocal prayer in school over the PA, to Jesus, by students. Then they said couldn't do that any longer, that was jr.high. In high school, they cut the pledge of allegiance, only allowed the national anthem. In college, yeah they hung banners around the second floor railings about atheism and macro evolution... well just evolution, most of them didn't know the difference from micro and macro blurring them together. And don't even mention the national anthem.

And that was then... now is way further down the line to where they want to get to, including fear tactics scaring the kids. They all think they are going to die from GlObAl WaaarmNG!! Geez, it was nothing but a fruit loop joke by a bunch of whack jobs to us. But now kids actually fear that they will die from it one day... so very sad. Same old line they fed us in the 70's, and doom was just around the corner. Almost 50yrs later, still using the same BS, but more organized mow, good money in it.

In my day it was all about the ozone layer. Anyone remember how it was gonna vanish and we'd all burn up? And how it would be hairspray's fault?

[iruinedyourday]

In my day it was all about the ozone layer. Anyone remember how it was gonna vanish and we'd all burn up? And how it would be hairspray's fault?

yea and then we reduced the use of CFC's (thanks to my pals on the left side of the spectrum I might add) and we have reduced ozone depletion.

[Blitzers]

yea and then we reduced the use of CFC's (thanks to my pals on the left side of the spectrum I might add) and we have reduced ozone depletion.

Yes, just like if we spend 2 trillion dollars now we'll reduce earths temperature INCREASE from 4 degrees in the year 2085 to only INCREASE 3.95 degrees. IPCC stats not mine. Now that's money well spent. Lawlz

[Daywolf]

I only read to the point where they removed the pledge and im going to respond based on what I assume the rest of it said.

As a fierce constitutionalist, I believe that no one should be forced to pledge allegiance to the flag or the country if they disagree with what it's doing. Especially not little kids who dont even comprehend the weight of the words theyre repeating. Thats as despicable as taking kids to church and indoctrinating them into religion before their brains are done developing.
So they are/were all being forced, eh? Why is it I'm starting to suspect that you'll likely be the guard standing at the gate of the FEMA camp when the loaded buses be-a-rolling in?

[iruinedyourday]

Wait daywolf says school is liberal indoctrination because it won't let you force Christian prayer on children wtf did I just read!?!

[xaxis]

Wait daywolf says school is liberal indoctrination because it won't let you force Christian prayer on children wtf did I just read!?!

The republican motto, IRYD, that is what you just read.

[Daywolf]

Wait daywolf says school is liberal indoctrination because it won't let you force Christian prayer on children wtf did I just read!?!
I'm clearly speaking of students, not state/teacher lead activities in where they themselves speak.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXU09YSfd7A
“If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever.” -George Orwell

[iruinedyourday]

I always thought you had the wolf image cus you were a deep spirit and loved nature now I know it's because you're like an old shitty duck hunter.

[Daywolf]

I always thought you had the wolf image cus you were a deep spirit and loved nature now I know it's because you're like an old shitty duck hunter. #22. When all else fails, say something nonsensical? I gotta get my friend to send me the updated liberal handbook on expected responses to substantive arguments.

The republican motto, IRYD, that is what you just read. #17

[xaxis]

#17

I freely admit I have no idea what this is referencing...

[Daywolf]

I stopped standing and reciting the pledge once I got old enough to realize the shit our government does, and got sent to the office a few times which was an infringement of my constitutional rights. Pretty ironic tbh.

Idk why that would make you think i'd be on the fed side of whatever they're planning with the FEMA camps out west. Maybe if I get a snazzy black uniform and we're only throwing certain people in the camps.
No one was forced, other than it being forcibly taken away and student rights trampled, citizen rights. And yeah, they do want to control parents of children with what they can say and teach to their kids in their own homes and assemblies. To me, what they do is their own business. But to oppressive governments, it is a way to gain more power and control. If you gain power and control over the kids, you gain power and control over the adults. Such camps with their black uniforms are nothing new, but the ideology is often the same through history, an it takes a lot of effort and concentration to filter it.

[Daywolf]

I freely admit I have no idea what this is referencing...Nor do I you.

[Daywolf]

At first they forced us to recite the pledge, under penalty of referrals. After a while they realized that wasn't going to work so they made it optional. When was this? They didn't even punish kids for that among wwii gens. There have always been kids with say religious affiliations that exempted themselves from such things.

School is supposed to be about education. They already teach enough useless shit in school, they dont need to further ruin the curriculum with stories about how jesus had a fish fry or force kids to swear fealty to an organization they don't know anything about. It use to be that was much of what they taught. Way before my time. Ironically enough, the students could actually read ...unlike today. And read very well. This is how universities and hospitals started in America, by the parables from the bible, by organizations that wanted to build a strong nation. Liberty throwing off the chains of oppression.

Idk what you're starting to rant about with controlling kids and ideology, but you're sounding kinda loony :/
As Sun Tzu said "know your enemy". Maybe one day you will know, but that won't come without effort.

[Pokesan]

please don't give fema camp retards the time of day

[xaxis]

Sorry Daywolf, I'm with Pagan on this one. What is the point you are trying to make? That the education system is failing, church and state shouldn't be separated or that the education system is failing BECAUSE of the separation of church and state?

[Daywolf]

mfw some bible thumper wants to talk to ME about eastern philosophy
Who was Sun Tzu you ask? He was a military strategist. Excerpt was from the book "The Art of War".

Republican, Bible Thumper, retard etc etc. You guys have all the tags to throw around to make yourselves feel special, but no substance to your discourse. Oh yawn, this thread is boring, I guess the norm here still.

[Pokesan]

Who was Sun Tzu you ask? He was a military strategist. Excerpt was from the book "The Art of War".

Republican, Bible Thumper, retard etc etc. You guys have all the tags to throw around to make yourselves feel special, but no substance to your discourse. Oh yawn, this thread is boring, I guess the norm here still.

look dude you're blaming the "fall of america"(whatever that means) on prayer no longer being mandatory in public schools

I suggest you fellate my penis, it won't help you but I will enjoy it.

[Pokesan]

anyone got a magic cock to decurse Daywolf's stupidity stat?

[iruinedyourday]

Who here remembers when we spent 2 trillion to fix the ozone layer omg

http://i.imgur.com/K4PZ1Mq.jpg

[Daywolf]

lol
Hey it's true, man. All I've done here is quote/state historical things you should already know as a "constitutionaliist". Issues I've said here you can likely find on any constitutionalists blog and/or hear in a broadcast/podcast. The second part of that Sun Tzu quote is "and know yourself,", but hey, this is ForumQuest, right? "Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it." - Churchill

[Daywolf]

Oh I just thought it was funny that you were trying to teach me something about Sun Tzu and using the most well known quote. Proves your superficial understanding of the art of war. I doubt you've even read it.
Do you do that often? Quote from things you have no idea about? Most well known? Maybe 5th at best, yet while most people likely have no clue who Sun Tzu is. So basically you thought it was funny I was using a quote that fits well into the thread discussion? Yep, then off you go with finding a Jew under every rock, eh? Legit...

[Daywolf]

Everyone knows who sun tzu is m8. Your superficial knowledge of him and your ability to parrot his most famous quote without fully comprehending it doesnt make you wise. Maybe no one at your church knows who he is, but then again people like that only worry about that one book they didnt read.

And christianity = jewish sect. You can't deny that.
"nanos gigantum humeris insidentes". And still yet you have added noting to an actual discussion :rolleyes:

[Daywolf]

Zero relevance in that saying
Because he's your m8, right? :D That is to claim he is your equal.
For those that don't want to look it up, it's a metaphor used by many, in the Latin as early contribution (maybe original) by Bernard of Chartres, of the dwarf 'standing on the shoulders of giants'. Quite in tune with know your enemy and know yourself as well as those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. This is what liberal re-education wishes to defeat, so to gain power over the re-edumacated. Power over the children equates to power over a nation or society, a tactic quite well used today, and which I wouldn't doubt is buried somewhere in Mein Kampf.

[Daywolf]

And the best way to combat all that is to mandate preaching judaism v2 in schools and forcing kids to swear fealty to an organization they dont know anything about. Gotchya
And you say you are not liberal? I seriously have doubts there with this sort of dialog as often used by liberals. Though sometimes used by activist atheists in which you find such rantings in dialogs with them as well.

The very essence of liberty is the allowance of personal freedoms. However, some use such things as "separation of church and state" to actually do the opposite by intention, actually stripping personal freedoms away from citizens so to inject their own brand of... well moral decay by state decree. To claim that there personal freedoms have been stripped away in hopes of stripping away the personal freedoms of others, or even the majority, under the banner of the diversity movement (http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2013/01/the_diversity_movement_defeating_itself_destroying _society.html).

Yes, OP, the re-education camps have been around for quite some time, and are quite effective.

[maskedmelon]

The seductive pull of contemporary liberalism is the concept of the faultless individual and the associated practice of reciprocative discounting of shame. It is a philosophy in which poor results for an individual are necessarily the result of good results for another. Unfortunately most people intuitively understand the absurdity of such an argument and that is the reason for reservation of expressed judgement. The unspoken proposition is something like this:

"I won't say you are bad if you won't say I am bad."

Rejecting this proposition instigates a campaign to compel the dissenter to embrace the principle of which the proponent is ashamed.

An interesting difference between contemporary liberal-progressives and contemporary conservatives

Conservatives: Generally seek to prevent others from doing things that Conservatives find wrong.

Progressives: Generally seek to compel others to do things that those others find wrong.


Neither approach embraces the principle of liberty.

[maskedmelon]

Agnosticism is the only true way, as admitting that you don't know because of lack of data is far more realistic than the meme scientists preaching that they know for a fact that there isnt a god, or bible thumpers like yourself swearing up and down that you know there is.

FP my respect grows for you daily. Praise be unto the reasoned man.

[Daywolf]

Liberals are the ones more likely to force a certain ideology to be taught in schools. Look at the state of american universities for instance. Personal freedoms like the right to practice a religion should be done on personal time. Schools are government run, so there should be a separation of religion there. I'm not suggesting atheism be taught in schools, as atheism is a religion in it's own right. Agnosticism is the only true way, as admitting that you don't know because of lack of data is far more realistic than the meme scientists preaching that they know for a fact that there isnt a god, or bible thumpers like yourself swearing up and down that you know there is.History thumper would be more accurate to what I have injected into this thread. Can't tell the difference?

Again, my examples have not been state mandated, but student lead. Your view would bring students into the realm of state property. That is a horrible slaughter of the intentional meaning of separation of church and state. This was formed to protect citizens from state instigated religions etc. not to protect citizens from other citizens.

[iruinedyourday]

History thumper would be more accurate to what I have injected into this thread. Can't tell the difference?

Again, my examples have not been state mandated, but student lead. Your view would bring students into the realm of state property. That is a horrible slaughter of the intentional meaning of separation of church and state. This was formed to protect citizens from state instigated religions etc. not to protect citizens from other citizens.

You've lost this argument like 4 posts ago and just treadmilling now.

[maskedmelon]

This was formed to protect citizens from state instigated religions etc. not to protect citizens from other citizens.

Agreed. I think that is an important distinction most fail to grasp.

[Daywolf]

You've lost this argument like 4 posts ago and just treadmilling now.
Because you know how alike his views are actually to your liberal view. This only reinforces what I have been saying, thanks :)

[Sidelle]

You guys haven't heard about Hillary's Fun Camps for adults? (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T30T-F5anRI)
Sounds like fun to me. :)

[Fame]

Anyone gonna thank me for starting thread??

[Daywolf]

You guys haven't heard about Hillary's Fun Camps for adults? (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T30T-F5anRI)
Sounds like fun to me. :)

Yeah I've heard this. lol at the "fun deficit". She didn't really define what fun is though, to have at these "fun camps" other than "more open dialog opportunity". I wonder if these fun camps in mind will have bobbed wire.. because bobbed wire could be fun under certain circumstances... to someone anyway.

[iruinedyourday]

schools are religious free zones... that's all that maters. thats not liberal thats not conservative.. it just make obvious bipartisan sense.

They are also no smoking zones. Dam gubmerment... :mad:

[Daywolf]

schools are religious free zones... that's all that maters. thats not liberal thats not conservative.. it just make obvious bipartisan sense.

They are also no smoking zones. Dam gubmerment... :mad:
And that is exactly the problem, government telling citizens what is or isn't allowed which is propagated by the citizens. You simply become a tool of the state, a servant of government. Schools are not suppose to be "religious free zones" or any form of self expression which is acceptable behavior in our culture. The very thing that is suppose to be protected is being suppressed by those that feel they have the higher moral ground by their own personal interpretations. They do the very thing that they tell others they cannot do. Yes, as smoke free zones, to hinder word and thought so it not offend your poor eyes and ears. Use liberty to destroy liberty, under the guise of liberty.

[Daywolf]

Public schools are government run so there isnt a religious curriculum.

Private schools are not government run, so they can have a religious curriculum.

It isn't to 'protect people's feelings" it's because learning about religion is 100% pointless in a place that is meant to educate you. You cannot solve math problems with religion, you cannot learn to write an essay with religion.

It sounds to me like you're the one with hurt feelings lol
Then you are a tool of the government. If you have no right to express your view in such a setting, than you are suppressed by the very entity that is suppose to be protecting your right to do so. And it's not religious expression specific, this covers anything that is your right as a citizen to practice and/or discuss. For a self-proclaimed constitutionalist, you have an odd view of the liberties granted by the foundations of this nation.

[iruinedyourday]

Then you are a tool of the government. If you have no right to express your view in such a setting, than you are suppressed by the very entity that is suppose to be protecting your right to do so. And it's not religious expression specific, this covers anything that is your right as a citizen to practice and/or discuss. For a self-proclaimed constitutionalist, you have an odd view of the liberties granted by the foundations of this nation.

schools are minors idiot, they have no rights.

[Blitzers]

Oh I just thought it was funny that you were trying to teach me something about Sun Tzu and using the most well known quote. Proves your superficial understanding of the art of war. I doubt you've even read it.

As a constitutionalist I strongly support the separation of church and state, which apparently you feel is oppression because your pastor told you so.

And let's not repeat history. Remember what christianity did to europe when the jews brought it there? Its called the dark ages for a reason.

What part of the Constitution states seperation of church and state. That is NOT in the Constitution ANYWHERE.

It's only found here, first to ensure context I have included the letter from the Danbury Baptists followed by Jefferson's response.

Letter from the Danbury Baptists:

The address of the Danbury Baptist Association in the State of Connecticut, assembled October 7, 1801.
To Thomas Jefferson, Esq., President of the United States of America

Sir,
Among the many millions in America and Europe who rejoice in your election to office, we embrace the first opportunity which we have enjoyed in our collective capacity, since your inauguration , to express our great satisfaction in your appointment to the Chief Magistracy in the Unite States. And though the mode of expression may be less courtly and pompous than what many others clothe their addresses with, we beg you, sir, to believe, that none is more sincere.

Our sentiments are uniformly on the side of religious liberty: that Religion is at all times and places a matter between God and individuals, that no man ought to suffer in name, person, or effects on account of his religious opinions, [and] that the legitimate power of civil government extends no further than to punish the man who works ill to his neighbor. But sir, our constitution of government is not specific. Our ancient charter, together with the laws made coincident therewith, were adapted as the basis of our government at the time of our revolution. And such has been our laws and usages, and such still are, [so] that Religion is considered as the first object of Legislation, and therefore what religious privileges we enjoy (as a minor part of the State) we enjoy as favors granted, and not as inalienable rights. And these favors we receive at the expense of such degrading acknowledgments, as are inconsistent with the rights of freemen. It is not to be wondered at therefore, if those who seek after power and gain, under the pretense of government and Religion, should reproach their fellow men, [or] should reproach their Chief Magistrate, as an enemy of religion, law, and good order, because he will not, dares not, assume the prerogative of Jehovah and make laws to govern the Kingdom of Christ.

Sir, we are sensible that the President of the United States is not the National Legislator and also sensible that the national government cannot destroy the laws of each State, but our hopes are strong that the sentiment of our beloved President, which have had such genial effect already, like the radiant beams of the sun, will shine and prevail through all these States--and all the world--until hierarchy and tyranny be destroyed from the earth. Sir, when we reflect on your past services, and see a glow of philanthropy and goodwill shining forth in a course of more than thirty years, we have reason to believe that America's God has raised you up to fill the Chair of State out of that goodwill which he bears to the millions which you preside over. May God strengthen you for the arduous task which providence and the voice of the people have called you--to sustain and support you and your Administration against all the predetermined opposition of those who wish to rise to wealth and importance on the poverty and subjection of the people.

And may the Lord preserve you safe from every evil and bring you at last to his Heavenly Kingdom through Jesus Christ our Glorious Mediator.

Signed in behalf of the Association,

Neh,h Dodge }
Eph'm Robbins } The Committee
Stephen S. Nelson }

President Jefferson's Reply:

Messrs. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, and Stephen s. Nelson
A Committee of the Danbury Baptist Association, in the State of Connecticut.

Washington, January 1, 1802

Gentlemen,--The affectionate sentiment of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist Association, give me the highest satisfaction. My duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature would "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and Creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect and esteem.

Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802

http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=65

When studying the context of these 2 letters the conclusion is clear:

•Danbury baptists want clarification of who AFFORDS the right of religious liberty to the people, The federal government or God. (Inalienable Right)

•Jefferson agrees with the Danbury baptists that religious liberty is a Inalienable Right.
•Jefferson also goes even further to proclaim we have a "Right of Conscience."
•Jefferson says "Wall of Separation" (which is the correct wording) Never does Jefferson use Separation of Church and State. The context of these letters implies the "Wall" is to protect the church from the state, NOT vice versa. If politicians or teachers want to pray on school grounds it's perfectly fine. It is also fine for anyone to decline through "Right of Conscience" to participate. For example refusing to say the Pledge of Allegiance is also perfectly fine.
•He also speaks about actions only, and that is the only power government has when dealing with Faith. For instance a jihadist beheading someone would not be protected by the 1st amendment.
•Jefferson lastly defines a right of social duties (in respect to religion). A person has NO natural Right in OPPOSITION to his social duties. This statement I would apply to the Kansas Clerk who opposed signing marriage license's of homosexuals. If "Right of Conscience" is protected by the 1st Amendment as Jefferson clearly states it is. Then it was the State that failed in this scenario not the clerk. Marriage isn't mentioned anywhere in the Constitution, it has always been a State issue. Therefore the State had the responsibility of exempting the clerk and finding someone else (appoint a deputy clerk) to sign the marriage license, or remove the requirements of the clerk's signature altogether.
•Jefferson then reciprocates KIND PRAYERS for the protection and blessings of the common Father.

•Original intent by our Founders should NOT be neglected when considering religious liberty.
•The 14th Amendment does not nullify ones "Right of Conscience." The 14th Amendment ensures "Equal Protection" therefore the state must also "Equally Protect" the "Right of Conscience."

[iruinedyourday]

What part of the Constitution states seperation of church and state. That is NOT in the Constitution ANYWHERE.

It's only found here, first to ensure context I have included the letter from the Danbury Baptists followed by Jefferson's response.

Letter from the Danbury Baptists:

The address of the Danbury Baptist Association in the State of Connecticut, assembled October 7, 1801.
To Thomas Jefferson, Esq., President of the United States of America

Sir,
Among the many millions in America and Europe who rejoice in your election to office, we embrace the first opportunity which we have enjoyed in our collective capacity, since your inauguration , to express our great satisfaction in your appointment to the Chief Magistracy in the Unite States. And though the mode of expression may be less courtly and pompous than what many others clothe their addresses with, we beg you, sir, to believe, that none is more sincere.

Our sentiments are uniformly on the side of religious liberty: that Religion is at all times and places a matter between God and individuals, that no man ought to suffer in name, person, or effects on account of his religious opinions, [and] that the legitimate power of civil government extends no further than to punish the man who works ill to his neighbor. But sir, our constitution of government is not specific. Our ancient charter, together with the laws made coincident therewith, were adapted as the basis of our government at the time of our revolution. And such has been our laws and usages, and such still are, [so] that Religion is considered as the first object of Legislation, and therefore what religious privileges we enjoy (as a minor part of the State) we enjoy as favors granted, and not as inalienable rights. And these favors we receive at the expense of such degrading acknowledgments, as are inconsistent with the rights of freemen. It is not to be wondered at therefore, if those who seek after power and gain, under the pretense of government and Religion, should reproach their fellow men, [or] should reproach their Chief Magistrate, as an enemy of religion, law, and good order, because he will not, dares not, assume the prerogative of Jehovah and make laws to govern the Kingdom of Christ.

Sir, we are sensible that the President of the United States is not the National Legislator and also sensible that the national government cannot destroy the laws of each State, but our hopes are strong that the sentiment of our beloved President, which have had such genial effect already, like the radiant beams of the sun, will shine and prevail through all these States--and all the world--until hierarchy and tyranny be destroyed from the earth. Sir, when we reflect on your past services, and see a glow of philanthropy and goodwill shining forth in a course of more than thirty years, we have reason to believe that America's God has raised you up to fill the Chair of State out of that goodwill which he bears to the millions which you preside over. May God strengthen you for the arduous task which providence and the voice of the people have called you--to sustain and support you and your Administration against all the predetermined opposition of those who wish to rise to wealth and importance on the poverty and subjection of the people.

And may the Lord preserve you safe from every evil and bring you at last to his Heavenly Kingdom through Jesus Christ our Glorious Mediator.

Signed in behalf of the Association,

Neh,h Dodge }
Eph'm Robbins } The Committee
Stephen S. Nelson }

President Jefferson's Reply:

Messrs. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, and Stephen s. Nelson
A Committee of the Danbury Baptist Association, in the State of Connecticut.

Washington, January 1, 1802

Gentlemen,--The affectionate sentiment of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist Association, give me the highest satisfaction. My duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature would "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and Creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect and esteem.

Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802

http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=65

When studying the context of these 2 letters the conclusion is clear:

•Danbury baptists want clarification of who AFFORDS the right of religious liberty to the people, The federal government or God. (Inalienable Right)

•Jefferson agrees with the Danbury baptists that religious liberty is a Inalienable Right.
•Jefferson also goes even further to proclaim we have a "Right of Conscience."
•Jefferson says "Wall of Separation" (which is the correct wording) Never does Jefferson use Separation of Church and State. The context of these letters implies the "Wall" is to protect the church from the state, NOT vice versa. If politicians or teachers want to pray on school grounds it's perfectly fine. It is also fine for anyone to decline through "Right of Conscience" to participate. For example refusing to say the Pledge of Allegiance is also perfectly fine.
•He also speaks about actions only, and that is the only power government has when dealing with Faith. For instance a jihadist beheading someone would not be protected by the 1st amendment.
•Jefferson lastly defines a right of social duties (in respect to religion). A person has NO natural Right in OPPOSITION to his social duties. This statement I would apply to the Kansas Clerk who opposed signing marriage license's of homosexuals. If "Right of Conscience" is protected by the 1st Amendment as Jefferson clearly states it is. Then it was the State that failed in this scenario not the clerk. Marriage isn't mentioned anywhere in the Constitution, it has always been a State issue. Therefore the State had the responsibility of exempting the clerk and finding someone else (appoint a deputy clerk) to sign the marriage license, or remove the requirements of the clerk's signature altogether.
•Jefferson then reciprocates KIND PRAYERS for the protection and blessings of the common Father.

•Original intent by our Founders should NOT be neglected when considering religious liberty.
•The 14th Amendment does not nullify ones "Right to Conscience." The 14th Amendment ensures "Equal Protection" therefore the state must also "Equally Protect" the "Right of Conscience."

lol no1s gona read this

[Blitzers]

schools are religious free zones... that's all that maters. thats not liberal thats not conservative.. it just make obvious bipartisan sense.

They are also no smoking zones. Dam gubmerment... :mad:

Religious free zones?

Gun free zones?

Shit this isn't gunna end well for anyone in those zones.

Btw common core requires teachers to teach Islam.

[iruinedyourday]

Religious free zones?

Gun free zones?

Shit this isn't gunna end well for anyone in those zones.

god I wish elementary school had cigerette machines and gun vendors in every hallway GOD I WISH

[maskedmelon]

I am awaiting P99's implementation for "retard free" forum zones wherein S.o.R.P. might run wild.

[Daywolf]

schools are minors idiot, they have no rights.
As I've said a couple times, to control the children is the path to controlling their parents and society. Even Hitler used this tactic to gain power over a nation, and nearly a world by the result thereof. This is textbook liberal doctrine in practice to the purpose of divide and conquer. You are well indoctrinated, sir. Children have the right to equal protection under the law, under the bill of rights and under the constitution. You, sir, for some reason believe that these rights are stripped away from a good portion of our society; from the youth of America. You, sir, are mistaken.

mis·tak·en
məˈstākən/
adjective
adjective: mistaken

wrong in one's opinion or judgment.
"she wondered whether she'd been mistaken about his intentions"
synonyms: wrong, erroneous, inaccurate, incorrect, false, fallacious, unfounded, misguided, misinformed
"they were acting on mistaken information"
antonyms: correct
(especially of a belief) based on or resulting from a misunderstanding or faulty judgment.
"don't buy a hard bed in the mistaken belief that it is good for you"

[Blitzers]

no religion taught in schools =/= you can't voice your opinion. I very strongly support freedom of speech, but spouting "JESUS IS LERD" in the middle of an algebra class doesn't make a whole lot of sense, does it?


Your interpretation of constitutional rights seems to be the problem here. There is no teaching of religion in public (government run) schools, but at the same time the military isnt going to show up and blow your teeth out of the back of your skull for practicing the wrong religion. You're free to practice any religion or none at all without fear of sanctioned persecution, but that doesn't mean the entire country is your personal venue to rant about some highly buoyant israelite.

If you can convince me of some practical, valuable reason for teaching religion in schools, I'd reconsider my stance, but considering there isn't any, I think you're gonna have a hard time doing it.

I actually agree Pagan. Do we really want the public school system teaching our kids about Religion. Most of these teachers are nothing but tenured HAX bleeding the system. The last thing I want is some liberal asshat trying to tell my kid how great Islam is. Definitely agree bro.

I do support religious freedom, and if you want to pray on school grounds or if you want to have a voluntary bible club that meets in a school classroom I'm completely fine with that too.

[Daywolf]

no religion taught in schools =/= you can't voice your opinion. I very strongly support freedom of speech, but spouting "JESUS IS LERD" in the middle of an algebra class doesn't make a whole lot of sense, does it?


Your interpretation of constitutional rights seems to be the problem here. There is no teaching of religion in public (government run) schools, but at the same time the military isnt going to show up and blow your teeth out of the back of your skull for practicing the wrong religion. You're free to practice any religion or none at all without fear of sanctioned persecution, but that doesn't mean the entire country is your personal venue to rant about some highly buoyant israelite.

If you can convince me of some practical, valuable reason for teaching religion in schools, I'd reconsider my stance, but considering there isn't any, I think you're gonna have a hard time doing it.
Should I start? I have offered no opinion regarding this, but have repeatedly stated the rights of the citizenry to voice and practice their rights within the system/schools. Did your M8 teach you to B8?

Such mighty straw men, marching in a column and in form so majestically to the open flame.

[iruinedyourday]

As I've said a couple times, to control the children is the path to controlling their parents and society. Even Hitler used this tactic to gain power over a nation, and nearly a world by the result thereof. This is textbook liberal doctrine in practice to the purpose of divide and conquer. You are well indoctrinated, sir. Children have the right to equal protection under the law, under the bill of rights and under the constitution. You, sir, for some reason believe that these rights are stripped away from a good portion of our society; from the youth of America. You, sir, are mistaken.

mis·tak·en
məˈstākən/
adjective
adjective: mistaken

wrong in one's opinion or judgment.
"she wondered whether she'd been mistaken about his intentions"
synonyms: wrong, erroneous, inaccurate, incorrect, false, fallacious, unfounded, misguided, misinformed
"they were acting on mistaken information"
antonyms: correct
(especially of a belief) based on or resulting from a misunderstanding or faulty judgment.
"don't buy a hard bed in the mistaken belief that it is good for you"

sorry i called u an idiot we dont agree but i like u :)

[iruinedyourday]

wait.. why do we all care about what theyre doing in schools nobody here is going to reproduce.

[Blitzers]

That is 100% reasonable and doesnt encroach on the state/church separation. What wolfie doesn't seem to grasp is that that separation only means religion cant be officially taught in schools. not that it isn't ok for someone to be religious.

Pagan & Daywolfe please take the time to read the letter from Danbury Baptists and Jefferson's response. It brings context that is thoroughly needed to this discussion.

[Daywolf]

Are you only christian when you're actively in church?Hmm? Going to a church makes you a Christian you say? So if a person stands in and empty garage, are they a car?

Not sure what you are fishing for... personally I like fly fishing. That's not for flies, but for trout, usually from a stream. Fish are smart.

sorry i called u an idiot we dont agree but i like u :)Aye, no worries :)

[Daywolf]

Pagan & Daywolf please take the time to read the letter from Danbury Baptists and Jefferson's response. It brings context that is thoroughly needed to this discussion.
Already read it minutes after posting. good post btw. Yes I agree in respect to the "wall". This is in truth to many of the writings of the founders. Jefferson is a very interesting character, especially in relation to Franklin and their contending yet respectful relationship, even to friendship.

[iruinedyourday]

get a room you two

http://i.imgur.com/3NkRaa0.jpg

[Lurikeen]

get a room you two



What kind of "progressive" are you? First you're a pedophile-phobe, and now a homo-phobe.

[iruinedyourday]

Fp desperate in hopes I'll ask to meet and let him blow me irl

[Daywolf]

What I was hoping you'd say is "yes, you are still a christian when you aren't in church". Had you simply answered me, we could have gone down the path I was intending.

If you're still a christian outside of church, your religion isnt being surpressed by not being taught religion for a few hours during class.
You're still on that, eh? Sorry, Bro, but reading comprehension check. Or you comprehend what I'm saying, but it's not the direction you want this to go for shits and giggles. Vroom! Vroom! :D

[ronasch]

get a room you two

http://i.imgur.com/3NkRaa0.jpg

I'm surprised IRUINEDYOURDAY made a sentence without calling someone a faggot.
Wait that lacks proper capitalization and punctuation. Damn failed again IRYD

[JackFlash]

He did imply it however.....

[iruinedyourday]

I have brainwashed you f****** well, my work is almost done.

[Lurikeen]

my work is almost done.

And then you'll stop your prostitution?

[Lune]

Typical American "liberal re-education" in action:

http://i.imgur.com/WI04nCQ.jpg

If you were educated in the US and your exposure to the concepts of capitalism/communism were substantially different than this, you either got an excellent top10% education or you're lying.

[Big_Japan]

"No government is needed in redistribution of wealth."
^true if the gang of redistributors is bigger and better armed than the gang of redistributees. but wouldn't that gang constitute the government at that point?

[iruinedyourday]

Fun fact that photo was taken in a flyover State

[Daywolf]

And christianity = jewish sect. You can't deny that.As for that, actually I can "deny" that, or correct your error, anyway. I don't think you even know actually what a Jew is. Jew isn't a religion, it's a tribe, the tribe of Judah. One of 12 tribes, or the 12 sons of Jacob. You can't become a Jew, it's a lineage, a blood line, not a belief, not a religion, thus you can't really be of/in a Jewish sect unless you are a descendant of Judah.

Just like the other 11 tribes are not Jews, nor in or from a Jewish sect. It's just that the only clearly known descendants of Jacob are of the tribe of Judah, while the rest were scattered... well loosely saying scattered, more accurately - lost, as it's possible those tribes were not disbanded but most of them migrating to western and northern Europe as by some accounts say. Don't know if that's true, but interesting, which could make up certain nations there to this day which have interesting distinction and traditions to specific tribes.

No, technically, Christianity is a Cult, not a Jewish sect. Just the name itself should give you at least a subtle hint of that, which it was called that early in the first century. It's true that some of the early Christians attended the Synagogues (some), is recorded, but primarily those were the Jews for the most part. Later though, with the buildup to the Jewish-Roman war, Jewish Christians more so distanced themselves from synagogues so not to be caught up in the tensions of the day between Roman and Jew. More could be said, but meh you're probably already having a meltdown just by this info alone, total system shock. Don't laugh your ass off to hard, could cause kidney failure.

But oh well, there I go again, thumping you with my nasty-nasty knowledge of world history.

[Pokesan]

a tribe is one dude apparently

go back to hogwarts bitch you don't know shit

[Big_Japan]

But oh well, there I go again, thumping you with my nasty-nasty knowledge of world history.

come on, yeeeyuh. come on yeeeeyuh. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnK5si4ZQnM)

[Big_Japan]

You understand that words- like europeans- evolve over time, right?

:ohttp://www.project1999.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif :ohttp://www.project1999.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif :ohttp://www.project1999.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif :ohttp://www.project1999.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

2 good

[Daywolf]

You understand that words- like europeans- evolve over time, right?
For instance, 1000 year ago... blah blah
You understand little about European history too! Wow, how do you manage?
Ah, back to the know your enemy and know yourself thing again. Ah well, God bless America, nonetheless. Once upon a time they use to teach stuff like history in schroul, how times have changed. Yes I'm sure modern liberal-brainwash teach Europeans all evolved in Europe. Kk, fight the power, bro /emote raises fist in salute.

Don't know history - check
Don't know world religions - check
Don't know liberalism - check
Don't know conservativism - check
Don't know constitutionalism - check
But hates all jews and like all guns - mkay
fiht teh pwr!

I'd say you are one of those disinformation agents of 0bama, but this is a game forum for crying out loud. Just torch one up, lean back in your chair, let the world just fly by in a haze. It's all good, right?
Actually I'm not even sure if you are really a Pagan... I've had really good Pagan friends, you don't seem to fit the bill. But interesting chatting with you in any case, theist.

[Daywolf]

pa·gan
ˈpāɡən/
noun
noun: pagan; plural noun: pagans

1.
a person holding religious beliefs other than those of the main world religions.



Poor fella doesn't know what a pagan is. It's like your brain is stuck in Niflheimr, eldhúsfífl.
Webster. Do they still use Webster in schroul? Prolly not, eh. That doesm't fit the re-edumacation thing I guess, they use more "modern" dictionaries hehe.
1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)

I didn't specify monotheist or polytheist. The way you put it though, atheist. I mean atheism is essentially a religion in it's own right, though not necessarily a pagan religion. Pagan would be such as Wiccan or Norse paganism such as followers of Oden etc. Those are primarily the ones I have come across IRL, some having been good friends actually, having sports parties, practicing martial arts together etc. These have quite boldly called themselves pagans with no ill will.

Looking deeper into the origins of the word, though, at least into antiquity which is more so defunct now, it originated in southern Europe to refer to any religions or theistic idea other than Christianity or Judaism - as pagan. So by your usage and your definition of the word, I think you are misrepresenting actual pagans, and simply using it as a slur to hate on certain groups regarding their beliefs with really none of your own. I think this does disservice not only to their beliefs but of those that actually hold pagan beliefs. But I don't generally call people out like that, regarding such beliefs, just repaying in kind here, rolling with the game in progress.

[iruinedyourday]

Pagan: people against good and niceness. Come on.

[Daywolf]

You implied that 'theist' would be an insult to me, which it isn't.Nope, wasn't my intent. If I go to the trouble of trying to insult someone, I'll usually define it. Was just wondering where you would run with it.
Pagan: people against good and niceness. Come on. hah cute. Actually the word "nice" has evolved from it's original meaning, being someone dumb or ignorant.

[Blitzers]

As for that, actually I can "deny" that, or correct your error, anyway. I don't think you even know actually what a Jew is. Jew isn't a religion, it's a tribe, the tribe of Judah. One of 12 tribes, or the 12 sons of Jacob. You can't become a Jew, it's a lineage, a blood line, not a belief, not a religion, thus you can't really be of/in a Jewish sect unless you are a descendant of Judah.

Just like the other 11 tribes are not Jews, nor in or from a Jewish sect. It's just that the only clearly known descendants of Jacob are of the tribe of Judah, while the rest were scattered... well loosely saying scattered, more accurately - lost, as it's possible those tribes were not disbanded but most of them migrating to western and northern Europe as by some accounts say. Don't know if that's true, but interesting, which could make up certain nations there to this day which have interesting distinction and traditions to specific tribes.

No, technically, Christianity is a Cult, not a Jewish sect. Just the name itself should give you at least a subtle hint of that, which it was called that early in the first century. It's true that some of the early Christians attended the Synagogues (some), is recorded, but primarily those were the Jews for the most part. Later though, with the buildup to the Jewish-Roman war, Jewish Christians more so distanced themselves from synagogues so not to be caught up in the tensions of the day between Roman and Jew. More could be said, but meh you're probably already having a meltdown just by this info alone, total system shock. Don't laugh your ass off to hard, could cause kidney failure.

But oh well, there I go again, thumping you with my nasty-nasty knowledge of world history.

Daywolf, Christianity is not a Cult. Christ was the "refor-mation" of Judaism and the fulfillment of prophecy, it is an "evolved sect" of Judaism. Its Earliest known as Christendom, the term Christianity didn't come along til the modern era.

[mgellan]

I mean atheism is essentially a religion in it's own right, though not necessarily a pagan religion.

Atheism is a religion like being well is a sickness, or abstinence is a sex position... Atheists don't agree with people who make assertions without proof, which is pretty much every assertion you've made in this entire thread. Atheists simply disagree with a "God exists" position. That doesn't infer that all Atheists have a "God doesn't exist" position (which would infer they have evidence) although for some people the absence of evidence denotes a high probability of being evidence of absence. They certainly don't have an inherent dogma that you need to conform to to be in the club.

If thats a religion then wow, you've got a pretty broad definition of religion.

Regards,
Mg

[iruinedyourday]

Atheism is a religion like being well is a sickness, or abstinence is a sex position... Atheists don't agree with people who make assertions without proof, which is pretty much every assertion you've made in this entire thread. Atheists simply disagree with a "God exists" position. That doesn't infer that all Atheists have a "God doesn't exist" position (which would infer they have evidence) although for some people the absence of evidence denotes a high probability of being evidence of absence.

If thats a religion then wow, you've got a pretty broad definition of religion.

Regards,
Mg

So if this is the case, which I know it to be. Then what is the difference between an atheist and an agnostic?

I was always under the impression that an agnostic is not opposed to the idea of a god or an afterlife, but has just not been convinced that anyone knows whether that is true or not.

[Pokesan]

hm yes i think i'll bite on the 4chan atheism troll

[maskedmelon]

So if this is the case, which I know it to be. Then what is the difference between an atheist and an agnostic?

I was always under the impression that an agnostic is not opposed to the idea of a god or an afterlife, but has just not been convinced that anyone knows whether that is true or not.

The fundamental difference between Atheism and Agnosticism is vast and really no different than that of Theism and Agnosticism. Atheism is the assertion of the non-existence of any form of divinity, while Theism is the assertion of the existence of some form of divinity. Agnosticism is admission of the impossibility of knowing either.

[Daywolf]

Atheists simply disagree with a "God exists" position. That doesn't infer that all Atheists have a "God doesn't exist" position
*blink* huh?
Need I more coffee? a-theist. The a- is no or not or apart from. Not necessarily anti- which can mean similar to but in contrast, deceptively so. But it's root is apo- Usage: apo-theistic (correctly: atheist). From the greek, not from old English a- (on, in, toward etc) usage: astride, ablaze etc.

edit: I should dash that so not to confuse with Apathesitic, which would be an atheist who is not interested in (apathy?) accepting or denying any claims that gods exist or do not exist. That would be an "Apatheist" which is not the same as an Atheist. I think you're describing an Apatheist.

[Lune]

*blink* huh?
Need I more coffee? a-theist. The a- is no or not or apart from. Not necessarily anti- which can mean similar to but in contrast, deceptively so. But it's root is apo- Usage: apotheistic. From the greek, not from old English a- (on, in, toward etc) usage: astride, ablaze etc.

http://i.imgur.com/3n1lcsr.gif

[Raev]

I think atheism and agnosticism are orthogonal. Neither the existence nor the nonexistence of God are falsifiable, so you are either an agnostic or an idiot. However, it's quite reasonable to have beliefs about things that aren't falsifiable, so both theist and atheist are reasonable positions to take.

[Lune]

I just broke this all down in that other thread you silly gooses

There isn't one. Also agnosticism and atheism aren't mutually exclusive. One pertains to matters of knowledge, and the other to belief.

Agnostic Atheist: We can't know whether there is a God, but I believe there isn't.
Gnostic Atheist: I believe there is no God and I claim to know it because of "evidence" x, y, z.
Agnostic Theist: We can't know whether there is a God, but I believe there is.
Gnostic Theist: I believe there is a God and I claim to know it because of "evidence" x, y, z.
Gnome: http://i.imgur.com/MLGzuAe.jpg

2/5 of these are stupid.

[Pokesan]

a simpler way of describing agnostics would be "I don't really have an opinion but I sure do love hearing myself talk by golly!"

[iruinedyourday]

I always considered myself an agnostic, but maybe you guys could tell me where I am on teh scale, "I dont really have an opinion but if I hope its harry potter or starwars when you die". Where does that put me?

[Lune]

a simpler way of describing agnostics would be "I don't really have an opinion but I sure do love hearing myself talk by golly!"

They aren't the ones that build massive buildings to gather in every sunday and talk for hours about unicorns n talking snakes n shit though.

[Daywolf]

[img]
I gave it a shave with an edit :)

He's actually referring to Apatheist. Atheist is a deceleration of No Gods. Apatheist is a deceleration of no deceleration, or apathy towards the subject in general. That would be even different from Agnostic, which is usually defined-accepted as don't know or can't know.

Actually they do make assertions without evidence (eg "I know god doesn't exist), they have saints (tyson, nye, sagan, dawkins), they have a dogma (the big bang, which is still highly speculative), and they have guidelines (be a good person just to prove you dont need a deity to tell you to) I would say this is accurate. It's a faith-based religion in it's truest form, or blind-faith more accurately.

[Pokesan]

have any of you ever met an agnostic theist in person, not a book?

[iruinedyourday]

[img]

[mgellan]

So if this is the case, which I know it to be. Then what is the difference between an atheist and an agnostic?

I was always under the impression that an agnostic is not opposed to the idea of a god or an afterlife, but has just not been convinced that anyone knows whether that is true or not.

Atheism/Theism is about what you believe - Gnosticism/Agnosticism is about what you KNOW. So most Atheists are Agnostic Atheists, not 100% sure but on the side of not believing, whereas an Gnostic Atheist says positively God Does Not Exist. Similar there can be Gnostic and Agnostic Theists. So when you say you're agnostic, all you're saying is you don't know, not where you're leaning.

Regards,
Mg

[Lune]

have any of you ever met an agnostic theist in person, not a book?

Most people don't understand the nomenclature (http://www.deargodwhyussports.com/uploads/2/1/9/7/2197555/7366647.jpg?450) well enough to define themselves that way. I think anyone who says they believe in a God and who, when asked why, says it's because they do not know the answer but have faith, is an agnostic theist. And there were a few people like that in college.

[iruinedyourday]

Atheism/Theism is about what you believe - Gnosticism/Agnosticism is about what you KNOW. So most Atheists are Agnostic Atheists, not 100% sure but on the side of not believing, whereas an Gnostic Atheist says positively God Does Not Exist. Similar there can be Gnostic and Agnostic Theists.

Regards,
Mg

what are you if halfway through reading this you started thinking, im spending too much time trying to figure out the arrangement of these words i dont even care about int he fistplace?








hehe

[Pokesan]

that's enough identity politics for now

close thread

[Lune]

I always considered myself an agnostic, but maybe you guys could tell me where I am on teh scale, "I dont really have an opinion but if I hope its harry potter or starwars when you die". Where does that put me?

On a scale of Richard Dawkins to Pope Francis, right about here:

||==O=======||

I am here:

|O|==========||

(Am Richard Dawkins)

And here is your average Muslim:

||=========http://i.imgur.com/9SKk9Zn.png||

[iruinedyourday]

On a scale of Richard Dawkins to Pope Francis, right about here:

||==O=======||

I am here:

|O|==========||

(Am Richard Dawkins)

And here is your average Muslim:

||=========http://i.imgur.com/9SKk9Zn.png||

and here is your average christian:

http://i.imgur.com/WHELt4H.jpg

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

I'd pick harmless retard over allah akbar any hour of any day of the week.

[iruinedyourday]

I'd pick harmless retard over allah akbar any hour of any day of the week.

to bad what you get is retard with a gun and a bad attitude.

[Daywolf]

I'd pick harmless retard over allah akbar any hour of any day of the week.
Yeah, but that's not very open-minded liberal thought.
The religion of peace, where women can't vote and are murdered for going to school, are on the receiving end of honor killings, forced to walk out the door strapped with explosives, liberals have not much to say about that except to teach how positive the religion of peace is. Why is that? Oh yeah, because people that say such things wind up a target of it, and it's safer to take shots at the groups that will do nothing to you.

[iruinedyourday]

Yeah, but that's not very open-minded liberal thought.
The religion of peace, where women can't vote and are murdered for going to school, are on the receiving end of honor killings, forced to walk out the door strapped with explosives, liberals have not much to say about that except to teach how positive the religion of peace is. Why is that? Oh yeah, because people that say such things wind up a target of it, and it's safer to take shots at the groups that will do nothing to you.

for a liberal my friend, it is the religion of I DONT GIVE A FUCK WE GOT ENOUGH PROBLEMS RIGHT HERE

[Daywolf]

for a liberal my friend, it is the religion of I DONT GIVE A FUCK WE GOT ENOUGH PROBLEMS RIGHT HERE
The world is a small place, especially when we have such big open doors here now. They say France opened the doors so wide, France will more or less cease to exist within the decade. But those other groups, don't wanna let them in here, because that's not fairness. You think there are problems here now? Things going to get a lot worse :(

[iruinedyourday]

The world is a small place, especially when we have such big open doors here now. They say France opened the doors so wide, France will more or less cease to exist within the decade. But those other groups, don't wanna let them in here, because that's not fairness. You think there are problems here now? Things going to get a lot worse :(

the world may be a small place, but your back yard is filling with toxic sludge and the house is on fire, meanwhile you have a bunch of idiots from all over the neighborhood standing on your front yard screaming about whats going on in the house across the street becuse the people there worship a different fake god than you do.

stop, turn around and fix the problems at home, by the time you do the neighbors will have moved to another city anyway.

[iruinedyourday]

At least muslim women are allowed to walk around outside

not if TRUMP had it his way.

[Daywolf]

the world may be a small place, but your back yard is filling with toxic sludge and the house is on fire, meanwhile you have a bunch of idiots from all over the neighborhood standing on your front yard screaming about whats going on in the house across the street becuse the people there worship a different fake god than you do.

stop, turn around and fix the problems at home, by the time you do the neighbors will have moved to another city anyway.
But... I don't care about what they say, as opposed to what they do. Most of that is fed by media sensationalism for ratings anyway. No one is standing in my yard, but they are welcome to have a dialog with me if they wish.

The problem with your metaphor though, you didn't really address the problem of importing problems here as we are doing, with the wide open doors. We can try to fix problems here, but if we keep adding more problems, then it will never be fixed. Likely the never ending treadmill of fixing stuff that doesn't really need fixing, while the real problems only grow, making us work even more feverishly to fix stuff - that doesn't need fixing.

And there are lots of problems, believe me when I say I'm not a 1 issue voter.

[Blitzers]

I always considered myself an agnostic, but maybe you guys could tell me where I am on teh scale, "I dont really have an opinion but if I hope its harry potter or starwars when you die". Where does that put me?

And you wonder why no one ever takes u seriously.

[iruinedyourday]

if ur looking for ppl to take u seriously on p99 forums bub.. i got news 4 u

[iruinedyourday]

But... I don't care about what they say, as opposed to what they do. Most of that is fed by media sensationalism for ratings anyway. No one is standing in my yard, but they are welcome to have a dialog with me if they wish.

The problem with your metaphor though, you didn't really address the problem of importing problems here as we are doing, with the wide open doors. We can try to fix problems here, but if we keep adding more problems, then it will never be fixed. Likely the never ending treadmill of fixing stuff that doesn't really need fixing, while the real problems only grow, making us work even more feverishly to fix stuff - that doesn't need fixing.

And there are lots of problems, believe me when I say I'm not a 1 issue voter.

thinking we should continue a fight with muslims or the middle east, makes you a 1 issue voter.. its too costly to do that and do anything else.

[mgellan]

*blink* huh?
Need I more coffee? a-theist. The a- is no or not or apart from. Not necessarily anti- which can mean similar to but in contrast, deceptively so. But it's root is apo- Usage: apo-theistic (correctly: atheist). From the greek, not from old English a- (on, in, toward etc) usage: astride, ablaze etc.

edit: I should dash that so not to confuse with Apathesitic, which would be an atheist who is not interested in (apathy?) accepting or denying any claims that gods exist or do not exist. That would be an "Apatheist" which is not the same as an Atheist. I think you're describing an Apatheist.

a- = not
theist = Believer in a diety

a - theist = not believer in a diety. Does not imply "claims there is no diety"

For example courts find people not-guilty, not innocent. Atheists find god not-guilty of existing, but not non-existent.

This is not difficult, Atheists are defining themselves this way, the greek roots of the word is irrelevent. Nice Wikipedia lookups tho.

Regards,
Mg

[mgellan]

The fundamental difference between Atheism and Agnosticism is vast and really no different than that of Theism and Agnosticism. Atheism is the assertion of the non-existence of any form of divinity, while Theism is the assertion of the existence of some form of divinity. Agnosticism is admission of the impossibility of knowing either.

Complely wrong, atheism is the the negation of theism, not a completely seperate assertion that there are no gods. One is simply "I'm not buying your bullshit" while the other is making up different bullshit.

The fact you choose to define Atheism the way you do is simply so you can dismiss it as just another set of beliefs. Nope, it's just rejecting your god claims.

Regards,
Mg

[mgellan]

Watch out, your thin veneer of civilized behaviour can be stripped away in a second by the demands of your Bronze Age beliefs... this could be Bumfuck Arkansas in 10 years if some people get their way...

http://heavy.com/news/2015/12/anti-balaka-christian-extremism-terrorism-central-african-republic-car-africa-mass-muslim-islam-execution-behead-murder-mass-grave-genocide-uncensored-youtube/

[Daywolf]

the greek roots of the word is irrelevent. Nice Wikipedia lookups tho.Thst's what they teach in school now, eh? religion, philosiphy, medical, the heavy usage of greek there is irrelevant as used in the English language now.

I only used Wikipedia in the edit spot after checking my word (got linked in from googling the word), just about 10 words of a sentence, so to not confusicle you. The rest was all entirely brain power. If it's written in Wikipedia as you say, well then I had it right, though didn't doubt that.

[Daywolf]

Yeah, have loved to wordsmith even back in early school. I had a strong vocabulary early on. I didn't even know there was a word called Apatheist until I put it together and then later looked it up. But anyhoot...

I'll tell yaaa'll what it is in these schrools that they are teaching. Ok everyone, ready your tin foil hats. Agenda 21. That's all it is, man, blue helmets being at the ready. Gotta brainwash the youth first though, so the takeover doesn't turn against the shakers and movers (the 0.001%). And "them" I say loosely, it's not just one ethnicity, there is lots of blame to go around. So put that into your pipe and smoke it.

[Jarnauga]

As a euro, this kind of thread is fascinating

[maskedmelon]

Complely wrong, atheism is the the negation of theism, not a completely seperate assertion that there are no gods. One is simply "I'm not buying your bullshit" while the other is making up different bullshit.

The fact you choose to define Atheism the way you do is simply so you can dismiss it as just another set of beliefs. Nope, it's just rejecting your god claims.

Regards,
Mg

Oh damn, I'm completely wrong! This is so embarrassing. I salute you Gels for not buying my bullshit. Cud isn't the best fertilizer though :/


On the up side, I was also completely unaware I had a reason shitting steer. Anyone else care to purchase some thoroughly digested observation?