sham question PLZ ^^

[tagaa]

What shaman class gets the least Xp penalties from the class? i want to go iskar or troll but if they still have like a -40% xp gain idk if its worth it. any help would rock plz

[Beckoning]

Iksar can't use the JBB though!

[nyclin]

Go Iksar or Ogre. Iksar if you want AC bonus/regen, or Ogre if you want frontal stun immunity which is nice for casters.

It's nice to have, but JBB only really matters while you're levelling. At 60 you'll have Torpor and effectively unlimited mana so expending mana to DPS isn't as much of an issue.

Also yes, the exp penalty is totally worth it. Troll/Ogre/Iksar are all great choices for a shaman. Just don't roll a Barbarian and you'll be fine =P

[Lojik]

It won't affect leveling much whatever you pick, all 4 of the sham races are viable:

Barb- 5% XP penalty, +10 cold resist, can use spirit hammer

Iksar- 20%penalty, ac bonus, regen, can't use totemic/ jb stuff, resist modifiers. ..i think it's-10cr +5 fr or something. Stone of Morid great range resist item, and symbol of thule great leveling item

Troll- 20% penalty, -20fr, regen, can use jb, Access to thule or innoruuk clickies

Ogre: 15% penalty, frontal stun immunity, consume food and drink faster

Don't think jbb is a huge deal past level 50, especially once you get torpor, as with GCD cooldown you can canni so fast it's more time efficient to dot and canni. I picked troll back in the day and love it, but if I had started in velious I would lean more toward iksar now

[iruinedyourday]

the ability to wear a robe of the azzure sky greatly exceeds the power of a level 36 nuke with a 12 sec castime.

Iksar definitly.

then you go HARD AS FUCK on the paint to get a guise in a GM event

and

win

everquest

[tagaa]

Thank you all ^^

[iruinedyourday]

Tagaa I want to give u on last bit of personal advice. I have got 2 60 shams, an ogre and a barb

there is nothing the ogre can do the barb cannot do because of frontal stun.

If I had to do it all over again with only one, it would be the barb.

I am too much of a coward to hope to get 0.0001% chance that I will get a dark elf mask AND a RoAS

walking around in cramped spaces was more fun with the barb than the ogre and IMO worth picking the race because of that alone,a fter its all said and done.

you will walk around in spaces, more than you will fight shit that you would NEED frontal stun(there are no fights as a sham where u need frontal stun).

So

I would pick

Barb
iksar
troll
oger

in that order.

[armadilluz]

Everyone always argues troll vs ogre. Sometimes iksar gets argued in there.

but in the end isn't barb the top picks?

Maybe i'm wrong.

[iruinedyourday]

Barb is all fashion quest oriented which, as a sham is really all that matters cus they're so powerful overall.

Barb has eyepatch, so why wouldn't you? Iksar has best regen which is arguably as valuable or imo more valuable than frontal stun immunity.

It also has ability to wear robe, but until then the armor is so generic it's boring imo and even with the robe until you win the lottery and get a de mask it isn't even the best look. But I love vanilla so I'm biased.

Troll is best stat/fashionable race.

[tagaa]

why is isk not preferred from what i see

[iruinedyourday]

why is isk not preferred from what i see

Some overestimate the value of the clicky bracer... Iksar cannot use. It's great but really only for 45-49 once you have epic it's just wasted time casting it instead of just Cani and root rot. 12 second cast for like 250 damage gets really old quickly imo

That's really only downside, some pre-Velious downsides cus they are hurting for some armor like hate/kunark plate legs/bp.. But it's all subjective.

Really like unsaid fashion should be your guide with a shaman.

The only thing that really affects play is the size, ogre and troll can be super annoying in some vanilla dungeons

[Jarnauga]

JBB is important if you wanna try to solo some high end stuff. Jbb is 263 dmg mana free every 8 secs. Best shm dot Bane of nife is 241 dmg every 6 secs for 425 mana. Jbb is not necessary, it just opens a lot of possibilities.

For info i play a barbarian. Never regreted it.

[iruinedyourday]

However possibilities it opens there is nothing alive in the game that you can kill with jbb that you can't kill without. The cost vs change to play is overrated. You're better suited bane/torp in those 8 sec then Cani the next. It's a vanity item.


Pras the barb shaman tho

[Jarnauga]

However possibilities it opens there is nothing alive in the game that you can kill with jbb that you can't kill without. The cost vs change to play is overrated. You're better suited bane/torp in those 8 sec then Cani the next. It's a vanity item.


Pras the barb shaman tho


It's like saying the soul well staff from vp is a vanity item for necro because you're better off casting vexing mordania

[brecon]

JBB is important if you wanna try to solo some high end stuff. Jbb is 263 dmg mana free every 8 secs. Best shm dot Bane of nife is 241 dmg every 6 secs for 425 mana. Jbb is not necessary, it just opens a lot of possibilities.


Yeah but Bane of Nife, once cast, will keep doing that damage for a bunch of ticks. Rather than click JBB every 8 seconds, you can canni / torpor and cast other dots, keep near fm, etc. At lvl 60 when you are trying to get casts of Bane, Pox, Epic, Malo, Slow, Insidious Decay, Haste (for pet), Torpor...you simply aren't going to have a lot of 8-second windows to spare for casting JBB. Not to mention switching in a Journeyman's staff and/or a Proc weapon on summoners.

What we are saying is: there are plenty of 60 shamans hunting big targets who don't see the value in a JBB. Roll Iksar if you want. I like Barb for the Barb Spiritists Hammer, the ultimate 35-50 leveling weapon.

[iruinedyourday]

It's like saying the soul well staff from vp is a vanity item for necro because you're better off casting vexing mordania

bane + cani/torp while it ticks > 8 sec of face tank immobility/inability to do anything else, while you wait for a tick's worth of your bane to land.

basically you are going to at best, at the absolute best, do one epic clicks worth of damage to the mob with your JBB

If a mob has enough hitpoints (aka is high enough level) to allow you to click the JBB that any times, you will require torp/cani during that time, because even slowed a mob of that level will be dealing enough damage.

Now, I don't know crap about necro, but comparing one class to another like that is a fools errand because every class/item value is extraordinarily non-comparable.

you have to look at the numbers, not how valuable an item is to another entirely different class.

the numbers say, there is no value to a JBB beyond vanity and playstyle.

*edit* I'd also like to quote this excellent post:

Yeah but Bane of Nife, once cast, will keep doing that damage for a bunch of ticks. Rather than click JBB every 8 seconds, you can canni / torpor and cast other dots, keep near fm, etc. At lvl 60 when you are trying to get casts of Bane, Pox, Epic, Malo, Slow, Insidious Decay, Haste (for pet), Torpor...you simply aren't going to have a lot of 8-second windows to spare for casting JBB. Not to mention switching in a Journeyman's staff and/or a Proc weapon on summoners.

What we are saying is: there are plenty of 60 shamans hunting big targets who don't see the value in a JBB. Roll Iksar if you want. I like Barb for the Barb Spiritists Hammer, the ultimate 35-50 leveling weapon.

I mean all that weve said aside, jbb can get you from 45-49 in a night of soloing. But once you hit 49 & are able to click that epic that was just sitting in your main hand until then, its like this:

http://i.imgur.com/xWmBsWn.gif

[Jarnauga]

Ok you wanna say that a mana free dmg item with a reasonable cast time and a reasonable dmg output is a vanity item, fine. I've been playing both an iksar shaman without jbb on live and a barbie here that got his jbb after getting 60 for 6 years so i think i know what i'm saying. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[iruinedyourday]

Ok you wanna say that a mana free dmg item with a reasonable cast time and a reasonable dmg output is a vanity item, fine. I've been playing both an iksar shaman without jbb on live and a barbie here that got his jbb after getting 60 for 6 years so i think i know what i'm saying. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Cool I have two 60 shamans on p99 and have been killing end game shit for 2 years with both of them so op listen to whichever one of us sounds smarter. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

let me *edit* to less dickafy this post...

The reason it is a vanity item is because of a few things. 1 its cost vs change to play is purely a "playstyle" effect.... it by no means allows you to do anything that you cannot (either more efficiently or with equal efficency) do without it.

Because of the high (overestimated) value of the item the cost is astronomical compared to the change it provides in gameplay.

that 20k is better spent on bumping your HP by 150 or more and your DPS is better spent spamming bane/cani/torp than clicking that bracer every 8 seconds while doing nothing else.

*edit edit* but level 45-49 HOLY SHIT its bad fuckn ass. But the downside is you will really be bummed about the range of the epic after getting used to shooting totally OP ice lazers at mobs all night.

[brecon]

I think OP got his answer:

All races are fine. Some people really love the JBB. Some people really love playing Iksars. If you decide to play an Iksar Shaman, you are fine. You can't click the JBB, but you get some perks. Lots of barb, ogres, and troll shaman's don't bother with the JBB.

The real challenge is getting to 60 and getting enough plat or a guild to help with the epic, fungi (per-torpor), Torpor, Bane, Pox, Malo, Spirit of the Howler, Canni 4, and Focus of Spirit.

[iruinedyourday]

I think OP got his answer:

All races are fine. Some people really love the JBB. Some people really love playing Iksars. If you decide to play an Iksar Shaman, you are fine. You can't click the JBB, but you get some perks. Lots of barb, ogres, and troll shaman's don't bother with the JBB.

The real challenge is getting to 60 and getting enough plat or a guild to help with the epic, fungi (per-torpor), Torpor, Bane, Pox, Malo, Spirit of the Howler, Canni 4, and Focus of Spirit.

yea this is the best way to put it

[koros]

Do the math, there's no possible way to achieve higher sustained dps than with a JBB for a shaman. Also you reduce the variance in hp when fighting hard mobs. It's a no brainer.

[Cochonou]

The only thing that really affects play is the size, ogre and troll can be super annoying in some vanilla dungeons

Dude has 2 level 60 shamans but doesn't know that shaman can shrink in dungeons. Keep on impressing me.

More seriously, you can pick up any class and do fine with shamans once 60 with torpor, malo, BoN and Spirit of the howler, but I would recommend you to go troll worshipping innoruuk.

This way, you can have the benefits of the regen (iksar and trolls both have the same regen numbers which is way higher than barbs and ogres). It does make a difference, even when you have torpor. Think of it as an extra fungi tunic.

The 2nd benefit from being a troll is that you can wear plate armor. JBB isn't game breaking, but it sure is handy at times. When leveling with epic, if you can have enough mobs to root / dot to cycle, JBB is useless, but try to kill a single mob with epic dot only and then do it with JBB only. JBB wins hands down in terms of time needed.

The 3rd benefit from worshipping innoruuk is that you will be able to have a clicky snare necklace. It sure isn't the best snare on earth and its duration is limited, but there are many situations where you will want a snare.

The ogre frontal stun immunity is really given too much value by many players but just go to WW and see those non ogres shamans soloing dragons. That should give you good insight on how game breaking (or not) that frontal stun immunity is ...

[Lojik]

Dude has 2 level 60 shamans but doesn't know that shaman can shrink in dungeons. Keep on impressing me.

More seriously, you can pick up any class and do fine with shamans once 60 with torpor, malo, BoN and Spirit of the howler, but I would recommend you to go troll worshipping innoruuk.

This way, you can have the benefits of the regen (iksar and trolls both have the same regen numbers which is way higher than barbs and ogres). It does make a difference, even when you have torpor. Think of it as an extra fungi tunic.

The 2nd benefit from being a troll is that you can wear plate armor. JBB isn't game breaking, but it sure is handy at times. When leveling with epic, if you can have enough mobs to root / dot to cycle, JBB is useless, but try to kill a single mob with epic dot only and then do it with JBB only. JBB wins hands down in terms of time needed.

The 3rd benefit from worshipping innoruuk is that you will be able to have a clicky snare necklace. It sure isn't the best snare on earth and its duration is limited, but there are many situations where you will want a snare.

The ogre frontal stun immunity is really given too much value by many players but just go to WW and see those non ogres shamans soloing dragons. That should give you good insight on how game breaking (or not) that frontal stun immunity is ...

I think pre canni iv and pre insta GCD cooldown the JBB was def a thing to be had. Do the math on torpor +canni IV and you'll see its probably slightly better to dot and canni more. JBB is still useful when you're low hp and waiting to torpor up, but its become situational now with canni iv. To do the same amount of dmg as bane of nife you have to cast jbb 8x (64 seconds.) In that time you can cast bane of nife, torpor and canni IV a bunch of times and be ahead in mana.

Also regarding the snare necklace, the fear undead one gets overlooked a lot. Yes it's way more situational, but you can put decide to put yourself in better situations. As an untwinked shammy leveling this thing singlehandedly got me from 40-53 averaging like 2-3 hours a level. Now with the warrens this quest is waaaay easy, you can probably get it by level 10, and its a much better leveling tool than the snare neck. Is it useful at 60? No not much outside of KC and HS, but neither is the snare necklace. Shaman already get tons of tools at 60 anyway, the big problem is just getting there and getting all those spells/clickies.

Also some dungeons are outdoors and can't shrink without using an expensive pot

[mgellan]

For info i play a barbarian. Never regreted it.

/agree ^^

Regards,
Mg

[brecon]

Every 14 ticks you need to refresh your epic, and it costs about 1.5 ticks casting time. Lets consider what you do between epics clicks.

If you chain clicked your JBB you will do 263 damage every 8 seconds...or about 2985 damage in 90 seconds. Assuming zero resists and zero bash interrupts, and assuming you don't cast anything else over this period. If the mob is not a summoner, then you will need to either keep rooting or eat some hits.

Bane costs 425 mana. It does 1648 damage in 42 seconds (7 ticks). So if you cast 2x Bane, you would do more damage than the JBB over those 15 ticks. Bane takes 5 seconds to cast.

To recoup the mana cost from bane (425 mana), you would need to canni 4 six times, taking about 15 seconds. You would then need to topor once (200 mana, 6 seconds) which means 3 more cannis to recoup the mana, taking 6 seconds to cast.

To Recoup:
Spam JBB: ~3000 damage in 1.5 minutes mana neutral, barring interrupts and reroots. No free time.

Bane, Canni dance and Bane: ~3200 damage in 1.5 minutes mana and hp neutral. The total time casting (barring interrupts) is 42 seconds.

Bane + Canni dance gives you almost 48 additional seconds in which you can cast additional buffs (Pox!), canni dance more to rebuff and refresh slow, etc.

Now, IF YOU WANTED, you could use those 42 seconds to cast a few JBBs. But this is why I don't think JBB is a game breaker. Bane + Canni provides more damage with less time and less root breaks than JBB, and give you more time (therefore more flexibility).

[iruinedyourday]

Dude has 2 level 60 shamans but doesn't know that shaman can shrink in dungeons. Keep on impressing me.

try to not troll outside of rnf.. you are a moron, casting shrink is a pain in the ass, I've been rez'd into a train more than a few times and died right after cus of idiots like you not paying attention at the solBent.

More seriously, you can pick up any class and do fine with shamans once 60 with torpor, malo, BoN and Spirit of the howler, but I would recommend you to go troll worshipping innoruuk.

This way, you can have the benefits of the regen (iksar and trolls both have the same regen numbers which is way higher than barbs and ogres). It does make a difference, even when you have torpor. Think of it as an extra fungi tunic.

The 2nd benefit from being a troll is that you can wear plate armor. JBB isn't game breaking, but it sure is handy at times. When leveling with epic, if you can have enough mobs to root / dot to cycle, JBB is useless, but try to kill a single mob with epic dot only and then do it with JBB only. JBB wins hands down in terms of time needed.

The 3rd benefit from worshipping innoruuk is that you will be able to have a clicky snare necklace. It sure isn't the best snare on earth and its duration is limited, but there are many situations where you will want a snare.

The ogre frontal stun immunity is really given too much value by many players but just go to WW and see those non ogres shamans soloing dragons. That should give you good insight on how game breaking (or not) that frontal stun immunity is ...

everything else besides your idiotic quote about thinking I dont know about shrink you agree with so IDK WHAT TO TELL YOU DIPSHIT.

Do the math, there's no possible way to achieve higher sustained dps than with a JBB for a shaman. Also you reduce the variance in hp when fighting hard mobs. It's a no brainer.

this guy has no idea what he's talking about, you are not doing the math properly, you do not account for the amount of heal/cani is required for both tanking/dpsing.

and finally, quoting This sessedrix level math because it is glorious and correct:

Every 14 ticks you need to refresh your epic, and it costs about 1.5 ticks casting time. Lets consider what you do between epics clicks.

If you chain clicked your JBB you will do 263 damage every 8 seconds...or about 2985 damage in 90 seconds. Assuming zero resists and zero bash interrupts, and assuming you don't cast anything else over this period. If the mob is not a summoner, then you will need to either keep rooting or eat some hits.

Bane costs 425 mana. It does 1648 damage in 42 seconds (7 ticks). So if you cast 2x Bane, you would do more damage than the JBB over those 15 ticks. Bane takes 5 seconds to cast.

To recoup the mana cost from bane (425 mana), you would need to canni 4 six times, taking about 15 seconds. You would then need to topor once (200 mana, 6 seconds) which means 3 more cannis to recoup the mana, taking 6 seconds to cast.

To Recoup:
Spam JBB: ~3000 damage in 1.5 minutes mana neutral, barring interrupts and reroots. No free time.

Bane, Canni dance and Bane: ~3200 damage in 1.5 minutes mana and hp neutral. The total time casting (barring interrupts) is 42 seconds.

Bane + Canni dance gives you almost 48 additional seconds in which you can cast additional buffs (Pox!), canni dance more to rebuff and refresh slow, etc.

Now, IF YOU WANTED, you could use those 42 seconds to cast a few JBBs. But this is why I don't think JBB is a game breaker. Bane + Canni provides more damage with less time and less root breaks than JBB, and give you more time (therefore more flexibility).

[Troxx]

I never understood the infatuation some people have with JBB. Once you get a full complement of spells there are better things that you can be doing with your time.

[Cillaz]

IF you are starting fresh, iksar regen helps massively, when you have no pp or armour to twink with! I've not missed having JBB, it may of helped level pre epic though.
Don't forget, with epic you kill 4+ mobs at once. So factor in the time it takes to kill 4 mobs with JBB, rather than 1. Yeah JBB is faster over 1 mob, but is it over 4? Also JBB breaks root!
Also you can click epic then chain JBB, doesn't have to be one or other.
I dont have an opinion on JBB or not, play what you think looks best, all shams are the same once 60 and torpor. Just some things help more than others getting there.

[Cochonou]

try to not troll outside of rnf.. you are a moron, casting shrink is a pain in the ass, I've been rez'd into a train more than a few times and died right after cus of idiots like you not paying attention at the solBent.



everything else besides your idiotic quote about thinking I dont know about shrink you agree with so IDK WHAT TO TELL YOU DIPSHIT.

I really wonder who is flaming and ranting here ...

Having torpor/canni/BoN more efficient than spamming JBB doesn't make JBB utterly useless to me. When a mob is low life and can be killed with 2 JBB casts, I'm personally happy to use my JBB rather than Baning it to death or clicking my epic and waiting for epic dot to finish it off.
Not game braking, but yet an argument which goes in favor of non iksars.

Also some dungeons are outdoors and can't shrink without using an expensive pot
Since we are pretty much talking about shamans 60 with torpor and BoN, I guess we can also consider Form of the Great Bear is part of the book. For pre 55 shamans, I guess we could discuss the expensive price of 20pp.

[Lojik]

Since we are pretty much talking about shamans 60 with torpor and BoN, I guess we can also consider Form of the Great Bear is part of the book. For pre 55 shamans, I guess we could discuss the expensive price of 20pp.

If you're leveling a shaman and it's not your first char, shrink pots probably won't be a big deal. But my shaman was still wearing banded pieces until at least the 40's. Unrest and Mistmoore both are outdoor dungeons and can be pretty precarious when trying to flee a train, and if you're using shrink pots you might go through em pretty quick with how often you have to zone trains. Expensive is relative.

[Jarnauga]

Every 14 ticks you need to refresh your epic, and it costs about 1.5 ticks casting time. Lets consider what you do between epics clicks.

If you chain clicked your JBB you will do 263 damage every 8 seconds...or about 2985 damage in 90 seconds. Assuming zero resists and zero bash interrupts, and assuming you don't cast anything else over this period. If the mob is not a summoner, then you will need to either keep rooting or eat some hits.

Bane costs 425 mana. It does 1648 damage in 42 seconds (7 ticks). So if you cast 2x Bane, you would do more damage than the JBB over those 15 ticks. Bane takes 5 seconds to cast.

To recoup the mana cost from bane (425 mana), you would need to canni 4 six times, taking about 15 seconds. You would then need to topor once (200 mana, 6 seconds) which means 3 more cannis to recoup the mana, taking 6 seconds to cast.

To Recoup:
Spam JBB: ~3000 damage in 1.5 minutes mana neutral, barring interrupts and reroots. No free time.

Bane, Canni dance and Bane: ~3200 damage in 1.5 minutes mana and hp neutral. The total time casting (barring interrupts) is 42 seconds.

Bane + Canni dance gives you almost 48 additional seconds in which you can cast additional buffs (Pox!), canni dance more to rebuff and refresh slow, etc.

Now, IF YOU WANTED, you could use those 42 seconds to cast a few JBBs. But this is why I don't think JBB is a game breaker. Bane + Canni provides more damage with less time and less root breaks than JBB, and give you more time (therefore more flexibility).

I definitely agree with you. Great post. The issue with your post is that it only works when you're root/rotting and dmg output is the only thing you're worrying about.

Now go solo a summoning mob you have to slow/tank with a lot of hp that hits like a truck (say lodizal). You have to worry about healing yourself regularly and not canni too much to survive the next round of hits, and be conservative with mana to actually down the 35k hp of the mob. Add to this the slows and malo you'll have to refresh..

Let's say you're using pox and bane on this case. You're gonna have to malo (350 mana), slow (250 mana assuming you don't have any resists if you're very lucky), pox (430), bane (425), and then epic for 9 secs where you gonna get hit, double for 300+ dmg if you're lucky, probably gonna have to torpor right away so 200 mana.

There, you just used 1655 mana ( around half your mana pool if you have pretty good gear and in a ideal scenario with no resists) to do 5k dmg.. Not even 15% of the health of the mob. Now canni away while it's hitting for up to 400 to recast all that. You're gonna have to canni 17 times (more than that actually) with canni IV and lose 2,5k hp in the process. I'm wielding ToV gear and have 2,7k hp self buffed at best. Yes, with a mob hitting that hard, you're gonna have to torpor yourself in the process, and not just once.

You see where i'm getting at ? Now forget all the mana from pox and bane. You'll see that it's doable. So i stand by what i said earlier. You don't need jbb, it just opens lot of possibilities for soloing tough mobs.

[brecon]

@Jarnauga - if you are dealing with a summoning mob like Lodi, then the JBB makes even less sense to me because of the chance to bash or push interrupt. Especially Lodi, where there are not a lot of good corners/walls, the chances of getting pushed on an 8-second cast is very high. Maybe a corner-casting ogre has more utility out of a JBB than a Barbarian like I am, but again, the math doesn't add up to me.

Ideally for a summoning mob you whip out your pet, buff him, and keep the mob occupied on the pet which gives you the flexibiity to torpor yourself without taking hits, and to change out spells. Then you cast or, for a belly caster, run in to cast periodically.

In the scenario where the pet can't hold aggro you want to be more conservative with your playstyle...when I solo Tranix for example I start my Torpors around 70% and Canni fast. The goal when dealing with hard-hitting summoners is to keep HP and Mana as high as possible, while dealing some damage....shamans kill big names by outlasting the opponent.

Simply recouping the initial mana takes awhile, assuming a solo pull: Malo, Slow, Root, Epic click, Insidious Decay, Pox, and a Torpor probably. After that is set I will try to start canni-ing back my mana. Hopefully my pet took aggro so I don't take hits, and I toss my pet an occasional torpor. Just getting back my mana to a more comfortable spot will take me like a minute or two, and by that time I need to refresh epic and pox. I haven't even bothered to malosini or bane the mob yet.

So again, I don't see where the JBB really makes a big difference. I agree with the other poster, the place where JBB is good utility for a 60 shaman with spells is to finish off mobs at like 2% hp when I don't have a pet out, or for camping low-level stuff like a Goblin Earring.

[Lojik]

The real answer is:
You literally can't make a bad race choice. Either you can use jbb (which some people love) or you have an ac bonus unaffected by soft cap +regen. I went troll, have crappy gear for a 60 shm with torpor/pox/bane/canni iv, and have no problems soloing dragons that hit for 300+ without a jbb. Most dragons i can keep pox/bane/ and epic up and usually dispatch in 10 minutes.

[iruinedyourday]

I definitely agree with you. Great post. The issue with your post is that it only works when you're root/rotting and dmg output is the only thing you're worrying about.

Now go solo a summoning mob you have to slow/tank with a lot of hp that hits like a truck (say lodizal). You have to worry about healing yourself regularly and not canni too much to survive the next round of hits, and be conservative with mana to actually down the 35k hp of the mob. Add to this the slows and malo you'll have to refresh..

Let's say you're using pox and bane on this case. You're gonna have to malo (350 mana), slow (250 mana assuming you don't have any resists if you're very lucky), pox (430), bane (425), and then epic for 9 secs where you gonna get hit, double for 300+ dmg if you're lucky, probably gonna have to torpor right away so 200 mana.

There, you just used 1655 mana ( around half your mana pool if you have pretty good gear and in a ideal scenario with no resists) to do 5k dmg.. Not even 15% of the health of the mob. Now canni away while it's hitting for up to 400 to recast all that. You're gonna have to canni 17 times (more than that actually) with canni IV and lose 2,5k hp in the process. I'm wielding ToV gear and have 2,7k hp self buffed at best. Yes, with a mob hitting that hard, you're gonna have to torpor yourself in the process, and not just once.

You see where i'm getting at ? Now forget all the mana from pox and bane. You'll see that it's doable. So i stand by what i said earlier. You don't need jbb, it just opens lot of possibilities for soloing tough mobs.

I was with you up to the point that you lie and say you'd use the jbb more efficiently in this scenario lol while you're Cani/torpping and not jbb'ing my dots are killing the mob. While you're jbb'ing and not Cani torpping the mob is killing you and all you're doing is 1 dots worth of dps.

You just haven't actually used this strat. That's why you don't know it doesn't work lol I bet you haven't even soloed tranix

[Jarnauga]

I was with you up to the point that you lie and say you'd use the jbb more efficiently in this scenario lol while you're Cani/torpping and not jbb'ing my dots are killing the mob. While you're jbb'ing and not Cani torpping the mob is killing you and all you're doing is 1 dots worth of dps.

You just haven't actually used this strat. That's why you don't know it doesn't work lol I bet you haven't even soloed tranix

I did. In kunark gear.

I'm done talking with someone who can't hear someone disagreeing without insulting him..

Seeing your post history, it seems it's an habit.. :o

[iruinedyourday]

I did. In kunark gear.

I'm done talking with someone who can't hear someone disagreeing without insulting him..

Seeing your post history, it seems it's an habit.. :o

no the truth is i have done both and i can tell you from experience that your strat sounds good but in execution does not work as you insist it does.

I know what its like, you like imagine this cool class and feature, and it sounds so cool, but then when you do it you're like, meh this isn't as efficient as I thought it would be, because I wasn't accounting for mob behavior etc.

you describe a fight with a mob perfectly, especially the need to keep your mana up. But the truth is, dot/cani/torp/cani/dot is more efficient than JBB spam, it just is.

[Malrubius]

The real answer is:
You literally can't make a bad race choice. Either you can use jbb (which some people love) or you have an ac bonus unaffected by soft cap +regen. I went troll, have crappy gear for a 60 shm with torpor/pox/bane/canni iv, and have no problems soloing dragons that hit for 300+ without a jbb. Most dragons i can keep pox/bane/ and epic up and usually dispatch in 10 minutes.

Has anybody posted (or can they here?) a decently complete list of soloable/worthwhile high-level mobs for a 60 shammy to try? I just got mine to 58 and am starting to raise my sights (I know, I don't have torpor yet, and realize that my options will be far more limited for now).

[iruinedyourday]

Has anybody posted (or can they here?) a decently complete list of soloable/worthwhile high-level mobs for a 60 shammy to try? I just got mine to 58 and am starting to raise my sights (I know, I don't have torpor yet, and realize that my options will be far more limited for now).

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80165&highlight=solo+artist

[Malrubius]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80165&highlight=solo+artist

Thanks. Useful, but old...just wish Velious mobs were included. Guessing they're somewhere in the 100+ page thread.

[Raev]

I have access to a L60 ogre shaman, and I thought about gearing him up to solo the puppet camp. I did some math and concluded that, even slowed, the puppets would do nearly 300 damage per tick. So I would probably be bleeding mana just keeping myself alive, and the JBB/epic would be the main sources of damage.

[Videri]

I hope people in this thread will add a tally mark to this shaman race choice poll (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222813), if you haven't already. OP might find it interesting to see what people would choose if they were to reroll.

[iruinedyourday]

Good pole but should be multiple choice :(

[Troxx]

Meh, it asks a simple question and lets you pick a simple answer. It's a useful poll. Interestingly enough, concerning the two racial options that have innate regen, race satisfaction is 85 and 90% respectively.

On the flip side, 50% of ogres and 60% of barbarians would pick a different race.

That racial regen is a big draw for the shaman class.

As a Troll shaman, I'd do troll again. If I was FORCED to pick another race, it'd be iksar. Shaman life got a LOT easier at level 51 and 56. I think I'd hate the grind to 60 without regen.

[fohkure]

Every time i think about getting rid of my JBB, I start using it again... It isn't the greatest item in the game, but I won it in Seb, so i didn't pay for it and i use it A LOT.

80% of me using it is when I'm powerleveling my friends ranger though tbh. I slow the mob, buff the ranger, and just stand there and JBB to help his terrible terrible damage. I just have to make sure to not KS him and it makes things go much better.

The big downside with JBB for leveling is of course it breaks root. So you can't root/rot stuff with it. This is why the epic so so far superior for this. Leveling up with the JBB, I would slow a mob, let him beat on me, and spam Jbb/canni. I leveled my shaman from 50-60 as soon as Kunark went live though, so I had no epic. If I had my epic back then, it would have been a very different story.

I'm a troll btw, and very happy with it. On live my Shaman was an Iksar and i was very happy with that also. I didn't make an Iksar, because my shaman was created long before Kunark went live.

Chris