What Class Does This Group Need?

[Seldig]

Hi All,

My friends and I are old Classic EQ players finally joining P1999! We are a casual/exp group that will play probably once a week (darned Real Life conflicts).

Everyone else has started already and created their characters. The group composition is currently:

Warrior
Monk
Cleric
Enchanter
Druid

I'm expecting my Titanium disks to arrive tomorrow. So...any suggestions as to what class I should play in this group? I keep going back and forth between Rogue, Bard, Shaman, Wizard, or Magician.....but I'm open to suggestions.

Thank you for your advice, and I look forward to rediscovering the amazing world of Norrath!

[thejester11]

I want to say Shaman, but with the Druid already having off-heals and regen, that just puts the shaman on slow debuff and melee buffing duty.

A Rogue would be my second choice for the sake of DPS. More DPS = Faster levelling.

[Daldaen]

Magician.

Malo, pet weapons for chanter charmed pet, secondary pet for DPS, CotH for pulling and traveling quicker, mod rods for drawn out fights on cleric.

[Erati]

enchanter can slow and do the haste buffs so no shaman needed

id do rogue or something weird like a ranger since having a perma group is one of the most fun leveling experiences in the game plus youll always have a group for your ranger

[am0n]

Ranger.

But seriously, Rogue.

[Raev]

You already have a Warrior, Monk, Enchanter, and Cleric. You could be AFK the entire time and the group would work just fine. Just don't pick wizard, a terrible XP group class.

[Erati]

You already have a Warrior, Monk, Enchanter, and Cleric. You could be AFK the entire time and the group would work just fine. Just don't pick wizard, a terrible XP group class.

this is why rogue would be baller - just sneak/hide around, backstabbing solo pulls the monk brings in

if you ever manage to get a fungi - your rogue will rarely need any kind of healing in groups

[Sage Truthbearer]

Magician.

Malo, pet weapons for chanter charmed pet, secondary pet for DPS, CotH for pulling and traveling quicker, mod rods for drawn out fights on cleric.

I agree with Daldaen. Mages are excellent sustained DPS and add plenty of utility down the road.

[captnamazing]

Rogue for min max

Literally anything will be fine. You have a super strong group comp. Warrior cleric enc on it's own is godlike.

[brecon]

You could play literally anything, since you already have Tank, Puller, CC + Haste + Slows, Heals, Ports.

If you roll shaman, you'd take a load off the enchanter (slows, stat buffs) and let the druid DPS a bit more.

If you roll a dps class, you have plenty of options (rogue, magician, ranger, monk, ~wizard).

There are hybrid dps/utility classes that would be fine additions (necro and bard, both have tons of utility, +mana regen, can deal moderate dps in groups)

You could roll a hybrid tank (paladin/sk) for snap aggro

So really, you are in the unique spot to pick literally any class and roll with it. Playstyle wise, the best DPS classes for groups (Rogue and Magician) are pretty simple to play. If you want something more complicated or with more utility, you'll be looking at rangers, bards, necros.

[Seldig]

Thank you all for the great advice!

I've pretty much narrowed it down to the Magician and Rogue. I'll probably go with Rogue -- since that was my role in the original group.

Now I just have to wait for the Titanium discs to arrive. Sigh....

Looking forward to seeing everyone in game -- watch your backs and your pockets! :cool:

[Morlaeth]

Magician.

Malo, pet weapons for chanter charmed pet, secondary pet for DPS, CotH for pulling and traveling quicker, mod rods for drawn out fights on cleric.

This.

[Naethyn]

Rogue - DPS and picklock puts this ahead of rest.
Bard - Overlaps with enchanter.
Shaman - Druid can do support heals, Enchanter can slow/haste
Wizard - Druid can port.
Magician - A decent pick if you'd rather caster.

Really any 6th pick is going to be awesome in that group.

[iruinedyourday]

Magician.

Malo, pet weapons for chanter charmed pet, secondary pet for DPS, CotH for pulling and traveling quicker, mod rods for drawn out fights on cleric.

yep

[Izmael]

Rogue for CRs, great manaless DPS, scouting and whatnot.
Bard for travel, overhaste and general coolness.

Shaman would actually probably be best. With a shaman, this group could put Ixiblat on farm status... 70% of WW dragons and who knows what other cool things.

By all means, no magician. 99% of the time it's just a weak DPS that can create trains.

[Pope Hat]

2nd ench. They are the best dps in the game.

[nyclin]

mages really aren't as bad as people make them out to be, especially if all you need is DPS. 54+ water pet with focus does ~40-50 dps if it can backstab, plus another 20 from Burnt Wood Staff spam.

also Malo/Mala would be very useful to this group

[iruinedyourday]

mages really aren't as bad as people make them out to be, especially if all you need is DPS. 54+ water pet with focus does ~40-50 dps if it can backstab, plus another 20 from Burnt Wood Staff spam.

also Malo/Mala would be very useful to this group

yep

[Ele]

Now I just have to wait for the Titanium discs to arrive. Sigh....

You have the Internet, no need to wait.

[Millburn]

I'm on board the Magician train on this group. The impact that Mala will have can not be overstated.

[Daywolf]

Play what you want to play. If you play something you don't really wan to play, you may not play. You can choose any class/race, even if it means having duplicates in the group, it'll still work fine. You could all even play rangers, and that'd be fine if you're having fun. Or you could all roll one race, whatever keeps you guys active. Just do what you want.

[ridiculousmoose]

Play what you want to play. If you play something you don't really wan to play, you may not play.

[iruinedyourday]

Play what you want to play. If you play something you don't really wan to play, you may not play. You can choose any class/race, even if it means having duplicates in the group, it'll still work fine. You could all even play rangers, and that'd be fine if you're having fun. Or you could all roll one race, whatever keeps you guys active. Just do what you want.

Meh if you roll a redundant class for a static group you may end up feeling worthless and disapointed.

But to the OP he debates playing all the classes suggested, so everything is going swell here.

That said Mage would not disapoint

[Daywolf]

Meh
meh meh

Only caution I'd say is don't roll two warriors, unless one warrior is going to be absent a lot. An alt tank would be a good choice to that though, an SK or Pally. But pretty much anything would work.

[iruinedyourday]

meh meh

Only caution I'd say is don't roll two warriors, unless one warrior is going to be absent a lot. An alt tank would be a good choice to that though, an SK or Pally. But pretty much anything would work.

the reason I didnt suggest shaman tho, is becuse if you group with like 45+ shaman/enc one of the two tends to feel suuuuuuuuuuper bored and that they are a 6th wheel... I know I've been there for both of em.

that feel of being worthless can happen pal, it can.

[Expediency]

That group is very solid, literally anything would work, but I think you should work backwards and consider the skills your group has and what it doesnt have.

You already have CC, mana regen, transportation, tanking, haste/slow, and healing all covered. A shaman wont add much to a group with a druid/ench, and the druid has porting and damage shield to add as well. wizard is probably the worst choice, because they are bad anyway and the druid can port you already.

What you need is DPS. A rogue adds lockpicking and sneak/hide CRs plus a cheap epic and dps all day. A mage is good dps. A necro is less but has more utility spells and can summon your corpse. A ranger would be fun for you and offers track, but so does the druid to a degree. Only roll a pally or SK if you want to play them, they arent bad choices but with a warrior and monk your tanking is covered and they arent the best DPS.

A second monk or enchanter also would do very well. Two monks never hurt anyone and the enchanter would add dps plus a lot of other utility. Bards mix with anything

[Pheer]

+1 to rogue

mage would be decent too but doesnt really pay off over a rogue till later on

[Vexenu]

Mage edges out the Rogue in this case. The Rogue's added DPS doesn't outweigh the added utility of the Mage. Rogue utility is lockpick and CRs (the latter being sort of unnecessary as well given you already have a monk, porter, rezzer and Invis/ITU). Mage utility is malo for both druid and chanter charms (huge), CoTH at high end (also huge), a stunning air pet for caster mobs, a reliable off-tanking earth pet, mod rods, DS to allow the druid more flexibility, weapons for chanter pet, big nukes to burn down mobs quick on a messy pull and assorted other decent summons like shurikens for the monk, WR bags and food/water. Meanwhile, as a Rogue you're just standing around and backstabbing 99% of the time. More DPS? Yeah, but does a group with a Warrior, Monk, Enchanter charm pet and possibly Druid charm pet really need the relatively minor DPS bump a Rogue provides over a Mage? Naw.

Basically, you will be much more useful to the group as a Mage, while still adding considerable DPS of your own.

[Seldig]

Thank you all again for your great advice. Sadly, I now discovered a couple of the other members have changed their minds. The monk and druid are now shaman and wizard. So now the group is:

Warrior
Cleric
Enchanter
Shaman
Wizard

Well that throws a monkey wrench into things. Looks like we definitely need melee DPS now, so we're talking Rogue, Monk, Ranger. But without the Druid we don't have any snare to prevent runners. So that points me to Ranger. But I'm not really feelin' the Ranger right now. Hmmm...

What if I went with something off the wall, like a Necro? Could such a caster-heavy group work?

Again, thank you for your feedback.

[fadetree]

You need a Ranger, Duh.

[Manticmuse]

Mage, then you wont have to root every mob for the warrior to hold aggro against a rogue.

[Izmael]

With the new group layout, you'll be low on DPS and have no FD pulling. I'd say monk or ranger (for snare)
Try to convince the wizzie to play a druid though... you have no good snares. If he does, switch ranger with a monk or rogue.

As for mage pet rooting mobs: 1) any half assed rogue knows how to evade and has no problems with aggro management with a warrior, 2) root proc is resisted a lot 3) root proc lasts for just a few seconds when it lands.

Two enchanters in a group more often than not find themselves one enchanter too many.

[Seldig]

So we need a puller, snarer, and melee DPS. Would a Bard work?

[Daywolf]

You need a Ranger, Duh.
Yeah, then they won't bug me with tells when I'm on my ranger while I'm farming HQ skins "owww helpz me tracksis mob fur epix dropz!". Lets face it, it's the only tracking in the game that doesn't suck. But, I'm sure someone in their group could roll an alt ranger, you can almost do quest hand-ins to 25, then easy fear kite to 30, result is a decent tracker. A must for tailors. For leveling I'd take ranger over rogue, but endgame results may vary.

Mage, then you wont have to root every mob for the warrior to hold aggro against a rogue.
See?! Ranger yup. And they have a cleric for revives :) Always a plus.
Though a ranger can pull aggro, just harder. Burning the mob usually gets their attention though.

[maskedmelon]

Thank you all again for your great advice. Sadly, I now discovered a couple of the other members have changed their minds. The monk and druid are now shaman and wizard. So now the group is:

Warrior
Cleric
Enchanter
Shaman
Wizard

Well that throws a monkey wrench into things. Looks like we definitely need melee DPS now, so we're talking Rogue, Monk, Ranger. But without the Druid we don't have any snare to prevent runners. So that points me to Ranger. But I'm not really feelin' the Ranger right now. Hmmm...

What if I went with something off the wall, like a Necro? Could such a caster-heavy group work?

Again, thank you for your feedback.

Necro would work great. They've FD, mana transfer, heals, mez, charm and more!

For snare, just have the wizard handle it. It is only 75 mana at level 29 and is generally an infinitely superior use of their mana since they are utterly incapable of sustained dps. They make decent pullers in late game too. Most people fail to recognize the full utility of a wizard because they roll them for ports or the big nukes and then quit once they figure out their sustained dps is around 12. Their burst dps is handy for large targets though.

[Morlaeth]

Thank you all again for your great advice. Sadly, I now discovered a couple of the other members have changed their minds. The monk and druid are now shaman and wizard. So now the group is:

Warrior
Cleric
Enchanter
Shaman
Wizard

Well that throws a monkey wrench into things. Looks like we definitely need melee DPS now, so we're talking Rogue, Monk, Ranger. But without the Druid we don't have any snare to prevent runners. So that points me to Ranger. But I'm not really feelin' the Ranger right now. Hmmm...

What if I went with something off the wall, like a Necro? Could such a caster-heavy group work?

Again, thank you for your feedback.

Yes, the necro would be great in this group. The pet will provide sustained dps (as will your enchanter friend's charmed pet) and you have so much utility as a necro. You can help the ench with mezzing in those OH SH** situations, FD, snare, fear, etc.

Keep us posted on the progress of the group! This sounds fun!

[Seldig]

You know, I might just go ahead with the Necro. Plenty of utility, FD, etc.

Plus, there is the added intangible: Our "Wizard" is my brother, and he knows that my usual main alt is always a Wizard -- while his main alt is always a Necro.

Karma's a b*tch, bro.

:D

[indiscriminate_hater]

unless your brother is trying to get away with minimal effort, tell him to drop the wizard

[Ivory]

Necro is ah-may-zing!

Mine is 41 now, and I built her tanky (focusing on AC items). I can easily out-tank my pet.

So I can get up and melee with it (using vampiric embrace and the DS spell)...then back up and my pet takes agro when I need to lifetap heal.

Super strong!!

[thejester11]

With the new group layout, I'd say you definitely need a Monk. Great puller, solid DPS, off-tank and good CR helper.

Necro is great, but is more of a support class. Your group doesn't necessarily need support, it needs core roles. Monk 100%

Also, a Shaman shines with a good melee class to buff.

[eqravenprince]

Definitely Monk. Sure snare is handy, but you have a wizard that should nuke and kill the mob when it flees or right before it flees.

[brecon]

Wizards get snare.

Basically you need a puller, unless the enchanter plans on doing it.

You probably want a FD class for dungeon pulling for 40+ content - SK, Necro, or Monk would all work. Monk is the best at it, but Necro provides a ton of utility, including the ever-important corpse summon. With a cleric, wizard, and necro, you could do any dungeon content without worrying about a messing CR.

Monk is the easiest, Necro is the most complicated of those classes. If you roll Necro and start charming in HS with the enchanter, you'd absolutely destroy 50-60.

Alternative idea: Bard. You would be relying on lull pulling, but with an enchanter, shaman, wizard and cleric, you should be able to root CC a crit resist. He gets snare, additional mana regen, lots of other utility.

So you still have some choices .

[-Catherin-]

a shaman or a *good* bard. leaning towards the bard since you already have two forms of heals.

[nyclin]

you really need to convince the wizard to roll a different class. if they want to pew pew, magician is a decent alternative. wizards are seriously bad in exp groups - maybe 30-50dps sustained at 60; about the same as a warrior or ranger that's autoattacking.

what you need now is a monk, or pro SK/necro. monk is probably the best choice because your group is lacking in manaless DPS.

[Izmael]

Yeah, drop the wizard. Worst class for grouping, hands down.

As for necro, I'd still go with a monk or a rogue (or even a ranger) instead of a necro.

They truly shine only versus the undead (but they really DO freaking shine there) so unless you want to stick to Howling Stones.

Necros aren't that group friendly:
- Mana transfer is helpful but with an enc and C2 you shouldn't ever need mana really.
- Pet is weak DPS and in many situations is a liability (trains, warps, mez breaks, you name it). Their FD pulling isn't anywhere near as good as monk's.
- Corpse summons? It's 2016, EQ is figured out, you shouldn't need corpse summons. With a rogue, even less so.
- Necro mez is OK to help the enc in case of a really bad pull, but... With an enc and a shaman (root CC), you probably don't need extra help. Also a necro can only keep a maximum of two mobs mezzed at once (long recast time, 18 seconds duration mez).
- Necro heals are very weak at higher levels, at best. You have a cleric and a shaman, you don't need extra heals anyway.

They have one thing that is great for the groups: DMF. That's pretty much it. Farm them lev cloaks and you're set.

[beel]

cleric
shaman
enc
enc
enc
enc

[Atmas]

You really should play the class you want to play. Everyone is giving you some good minmax options but at the end of the day if you are going to spend tons of hours on a character it should be one you enjoy playing.

Also everyone likes to poo poo wizards for standard groups but a well played wizard adds a lot of utility. Plus having an enchanter always around makes a wizard more potent. In the same vein of you playing whatever you enjoy so should your friend. I'm guessing you guys aren't all about tearing through the game to 60 anyway. I'm also kind of doubtful that with real life constraints you will all actually level the whole way at the same pace or that some people won't possibly quit at some point. So it's probably best that you don't get invested in the idea of a perfectly balanced group (It's already changed in the last two days!).

[Izmael]

I would love to hear about the "lot of utility" a wizard adds to a group. Actually I never played a wizard mysel past level 4 (I think) so it's a legit question. I thought all wizards can do is port, nuke, root and AE snare.

[Daywolf]

Yeah and min/max for one thing may not be min/max for another. I don't recall any real end-game goals set, for what this group wants to focus on, so that it should matter.

[Atmas]

I would love to hear about the "lot of utility" a wizard adds to a group. Actually I never played a wizard mysel past level 4 (I think) so it's a legit question. I thought all wizards can do is port, nuke, root and AE snare.

Yes a wizard can do those things and more but extrapolate on that:

-Wizards are good rooters which can help with CC in general and is even more beneficial when the enchanter isn't around.
-Wizards have stuns which can and should be used to interrupt casting mobs.
-Wizards can port which is great to have on hand when trying to get your group to get your group formed up and to an xp spot. Yeah there are things like dial a port but in group porting is even more convenient and cost effective. Especially if you get to an xp spot see its over-camped and want to go elsewhere or replace/recover a group member.
-Wizards sustained dps is not great but they have huge burst dps. A smart wizard maintains a level of mana useful for emergencies which allows them to burst down mobs like no other class can when their group is in a bad spot being overwhelmed.
-Stun/burst/snare also makes it easier to deal with annoying mobs who have low health traits.
-Evac in very dire situations.
-Tflux staff is arguably the best pulling item in the game.
-Best AoE damage (you won't always be in a conventional group)
-Can snare kite (you won't always be in a conventional group)
-Can solo well (you won't always be in a conventional group)

Like many other classes there is a good level of difference between a well played wizard and a lazy one.

There are also some game changing gear possibilities if you get your wizard to the end game, I won't really bother with going into detail because it's kind of out of the scope of this discussion. I will mention though that if you get to the end game a wizard will have more added value than a lot of other classes. For example having more than x number of enchanters or magicians at a certain point doesn't provide much benefit.

[Shaniril]

Everyone else has started already and created their characters. The group composition is currently:

Warrior
Monk
Cleric
Enchanter
Druid



Rogue. Takes care of locked doors, CR's and brings much needed dps.

[applesauce25r624]

bard. nobody likes running outdoors like a grandma

[thufir]

Thank you all again for your great advice. Sadly, I now discovered a couple of the other members have changed their minds. The monk and druid are now shaman and wizard. So now the group is:

Warrior
Cleric
Enchanter
Shaman
Wizard

Well that throws a monkey wrench into things. Looks like we definitely need melee DPS now, so we're talking Rogue, Monk, Ranger. But without the Druid we don't have any snare to prevent runners. So that points me to Ranger. But I'm not really feelin' the Ranger right now. Hmmm...

What if I went with something off the wall, like a Necro? Could such a caster-heavy group work?

Again, thank you for your feedback.

Monk would be the traditional, safe pick. Your wizard will get snare at 29. Until then you can hold out. Runners can be mitigated, with root if nothing else. In the meantime, a properly twinked monk is doing great damage from the get go and also is the best puller in the game.

I do like necro here. Necros are great support utility and the pet (or charmed dead thing) provides good DPS. Also, this still gives your group FD in a case where you would need it, or summon corpse, or essence emerald rez, as you get older.

Ranger is OK for off tanking, snare, root parking, and other utility, but don't roll one if you're "not feeling it". Ranger isn't the kind of class you grow into. You're either feeling it and in love with it, or you'll get demoralized with all the stuff you do second-best.

Rogue is also acceptable, and it opens doors (see what I did there) for places like Befallen early on as well as Howling Stones and Seb crypt later. And of course their dps is best in the game.

Bard is the dark horse choice. They do many things amazingly. DPS, unfortunately, isn't one of them, and this party is not very strong in that department. They will make your wizard better with their mana song, though. Wizards are very mana intensive; anything you can shove into them will help them a lot. And of course they have snare, charm, aoe mez, normal mez, lull, travel song, etc.

I'd pick the monk or the rogue (after thinking about it, I think maybe the rogue, just because of the end game stuff). But I think any of these would be fine for your party.

[Morningbreath]

Wizard snare costs 75 mana. Over the course of 30 pulls that's going to cost you 2,250 mana. At level 29 that's 15 casts of Thunder Strike, a net of -3705 damage.

Meanwhile druid snare costs 15 mana...I'll let you do the math on that one while I work on inventing a time machine.

[Faywind]

mages really aren't as bad as people make them out to be, especially if all you need is DPS. 54+ water pet with focus does ~40-50 dps if it can backstab, plus another 20 from Burnt Wood Staff spam.

also Malo/Mala would be very useful to this group

Nope...

[thufir]

Wizard snare costs 75 mana. Over the course of 30 pulls that's going to cost you 2,250 mana. At level 29 that's 15 casts of Thunder Strike, a net of -3705 damage.

Meanwhile druid snare costs 15 mana...I'll let you do the math on that one while I work on inventing a time machine.
You probably won't have to snare every pull. Pull 3, mez 2, only need to snare 1, for example. A lot of mobs don't run at all.

I don't know why you're bringing this up anyway unless you want them to roll a druid for some crazy reason. Point is when they need a snare they have one so they shouldn't necessarily pick their 6th class on whether or not it has a cheap snare.

[Faywind]

Regardless, any class would bring more to the table than a wizard... It's sad that they lack so much compared to other classes and I would never recommend it to another player unless they want to raid hardcore...

[thufir]

Regardless, any class would bring more to the table than a wizard... It's sad that they lack so much compared to other classes and I would never recommend it to another player unless they want to raid hardcore...

You don't have to tell me. I played one until 59 on live during this era (63, if you count when I came back during PoP). My regrets about picking a wizard as my main are part of why I play here at all. They just don't do very much and what they do do is not really well suited for the XP grind that characterizes much of this game. Kunark era killed them, imo; their burst DPS was a decent tradeoff for their lack of sustain when melee had crappy weapons and mobs had crappy hp.

But if that's what the OP wants that's what they want. They do have some utility so it won't be as bad as all that. Have to level up a wizard somehow. And it is nice when you get to the very end and have Hsagra's Wrath and Porlos's Fury (expensive, though).

[jarshale]

Necro pet/dots might make up some DPS. also low level darkness is an easy snare replacement imo. also some poor mans cc's with a shit mez and root around lvl 30 something

[iruinedyourday]

yea but when a wizard gets lazy, they just sit there, when any other class they at least auto attack or pet dps..

and lets be honest, its ez to get lazy on p99

[Daywolf]

yea but when a wizard gets lazy, they just sit there, when any other class they at least auto attack or pet dps..

and lets be honest, its ez to get lazy on p99
A little exaggerated there. Such as druids don't really have auto (not worth a damn anyway) or sustainable pet. I'd party with a wiz over a bard though, unless I know the bard didn't just roll a bard to take advantage of the strafing bug, which imo is worse than lazy. But you know quickly if a wizzy is being lazy, and either they get booted or get themselves killed because they are nuking too early for the kill. And of course too late and it's just a waste of mana. But there are good bards, and good wizards, and it's still just a matter of liking the class you play, at least as it's meant to be played.

[Atmas]

You don't have to tell me. I played one until 59 on live during this era (63, if you count when I came back during PoP). My regrets about picking a wizard as my main are part of why I play here at all. They just don't do very much and what they do do is not really well suited for the XP grind that characterizes much of this game. Kunark era killed them, imo; their burst DPS was a decent tradeoff for their lack of sustain when melee had crappy weapons and mobs had crappy hp.

But if that's what the OP wants that's what they want. They do have some utility so it won't be as bad as all that. Have to level up a wizard somehow. And it is nice when you get to the very end and have Hsagra's Wrath and Porlos's Fury (expensive, though).

I actually think Velious was the worst for wizards. It's pretty much a melee xpac. I guess you are referring to leveling though. Wizards were great raid mob dps in Kunark.

I played a wiz on live. Velious high hpt non-bannable mobs don't work out well for them. However, when AAs came out and during PoP my wizard was awesome. At the top or in the top few of DPS charts on raids. Also had so much mana regen/mana conservation ability that I was viable dps for normal groups. However, quadding or AoE groups were also way better xp than normal groups. Geared wizards were pretty stellar during PoP. The prevalence of high end weapons here does make it harder for wizards leveling now.

My apologies to OP for a bit of derailment.

[Victorio]

Rogue or a second enchanter

[JurisDictum]

Rogue or Mage would be the best. With proper gear -- Rogue will out dps anything except certain charms. Rogue's are also able to help CR a group with hide/sneak and open doors that are really annoying to get keys for.

But on low gear, Mage deals a lot of damage. They also have mod rods, pet weapons and the ability to summon people eventually.

Ranger is a possibility too. Tracking can be useful and extra dps is always nice. They get a few cool buffs late in the game as well. But I think a Rogue or a Mage would add the most.

[Raev]

I think the biggest problem Wizards have is the lack of a dps clicky. It's just mind boggling that Shamans get the JBB while Wizards get nothing at all until VP/Velketor. A good wizard (i.e. one that plays like an enchanter) is much better than a wizard that nukes, pulls threat, nearly dies, and then AFKs for 10 minutes. But even a good Wizard is going to be way behind an Enchanter or even an Magician.

This is not to say that Wizards aren't useful; they are superb at AE, quadding, porting, and blowing up raid bosses. And unlike Druids, Velious does nothing to fix their XP group problems.

[iruinedyourday]

Yea I s shocking there is no clicky like that for wiz in vel

[bktroost]

Stop, stop. Pet mask is going to increase ench pet dps by 15% . mala into malosini will make ench slow possible in zones like PoM or other areas that usually require a torpor, malosini, slow to start off fights. The magician epic is coming soon to a hate mini near you. That pet does more damage than a monk without disc and has 4k base life to offtank in hate break ins where you can't mezz the golems or in The Hole where there are non mezzable adds. With enchnater mana pump you will lay out so much dps that you won't notice the lack of a rogue. With a warrior and monk you will need to control the attack direction of your pet to interrupt casting mobs like DEs, Yendar, hate gaters, Queen, and ice comit frogs in Seb, etc. With summon companion in your 30s you won't ever have to worry about pet training ever again. Park you pet, move with the group and summon it to you when you get there.

You don't need a rogue to corpse drag because you have a monk for just that. Not having Lockpocking doors is going to bother you when you do HS and if you want to single group chardok royals. Monks can scout pathers for dungeon crawls just like rogues.

The only thing you lose out on by not going rogue is a sneak tagger. If your warrior is a halfling then you have that. If not you will need a good monk until the mage is 55 and can CoTH. The only time you will HAVE to sneak tag something the monk can't solo pull is higher level things that can't be mezzed by the enchanter, such as breaking tola and juggs...and you will be 55 by then.

If you all join a raiding guild together you won't regret either choice.

[Lojik]

I think the biggest problem Wizards have is the lack of a dps clicky. It's just mind boggling that Shamans get the JBB while Wizards get nothing at all until VP/Velketor. A good wizard (i.e. one that plays like an enchanter) is much better than a wizard that nukes, pulls threat, nearly dies, and then AFKs for 10 minutes. But even a good Wizard is going to be way behind an Enchanter or even an Magician.

This is not to say that Wizards aren't useful; they are superb at AE, quadding, porting, and blowing up raid bosses. And unlike Druids, Velious does nothing to fix their XP group problems.

And by velious, with torpor and canni iv mana regen is so good that a jbb aint really that useful outside very specific situations. At 60 with torpor and canni iv for mana regen a shm won't even need to heal with torpor, can just spam chloroblast with all that mana.

[brecon]

OP: What class does this group need

Last four posts: Suggestions based on single-grouping POM, discussions about usefulness of JBB for a 60 shaman, and discussion of lack of wizard dps clicky

[Troxx]

I'd party with a wiz over a bard though

Even an afk bard singing hymn of restoration (under 55) or cantana (55+) with a lute equipped will do more for a group than a wizard.

As for what the OPs group needs ...

There are a lot of classes that could round that group out nicely.

-Rogue brings consistent high dps, corpse dragging, and pick lock for those few awesome cash spots like crypt/emperor in seb. Without pick lock, there are a few camps your premade can't really enjoy.

-Mage brings solid dps, malo, and CoH.

-Shaman ... this class is just a powerhouse. While some might consider it redundant for your group (and having shaman, cleric a druid in a group is a bit of a waste), this class brings the strongest slows to the table, malo, and frees up the enchanter to focus solely on pet dps and crowd control - monk can go hog wild with overpulling as your slower and cc'r aren't the same toon.

-Bard ... bards make every group better. The draw-back to bringing a bard to the table is that it doesn't really help the group kill faster. 3 out of your 6 toons would enjoy a huge jump to mana regen, and 6 out of 6 toons would benefit from the extra background healing, freeing up more druid mana for nuking and possibly allowing your cleric to go to sleep in most xp camps the game has to offer. Lull in a lot of camps allows the bard to pull more quickly/safely than the monk (especially when there are casters around). The big draw back here is bards don't add jack diddly for damage output. If your group didn't have a druid (ie had another higher damage toon like a rogue or mage) I'd recommend bard for sure.

-Monk - always solid dps - always a good stand-in tank - always a great puller. A monk will fit into literally any group that covers the basics of healer and cc/slower. You could have a group of 4 monks, a cleric and a chanter/shaman that would own most content.

For the 6th man to YOUR group, I'd recommend rogue. Barring that, mage will probably add more to your group than most other options.

[iruinedyourday]

Stop, stop. Pet mask is going to increase ench pet dps by 15% . mala into malosini will make ench slow possible in zones like PoM or other areas that usually require a torpor, malosini, slow to start off fights. The magician epic is coming soon to a hate mini near you. That pet does more damage than a monk without disc and has 4k base life to offtank in hate break ins where you can't mezz the golems or in The Hole where there are non mezzable adds. With enchnater mana pump you will lay out so much dps that you won't notice the lack of a rogue. With a warrior and monk you will need to control the attack direction of your pet to interrupt casting mobs like DEs, Yendar, hate gaters, Queen, and ice comit frogs in Seb, etc. With summon companion in your 30s you won't ever have to worry about pet training ever again. Park you pet, move with the group and summon it to you when you get there.

You don't need a rogue to corpse drag because you have a monk for just that. Not having Lockpocking doors is going to bother you when you do HS and if you want to single group chardok royals. Monks can scout pathers for dungeon crawls just like rogues.

The only thing you lose out on by not going rogue is a sneak tagger. If your warrior is a halfling then you have that. If not you will need a good monk until the mage is 55 and can CoTH. The only time you will HAVE to sneak tag something the monk can't solo pull is higher level things that can't be mezzed by the enchanter, such as breaking tola and juggs...and you will be 55 by then.

If you all join a raiding guild together you won't regret either choice.

[Troxx]

+1 for the mage class in general

Magicians are one of the classes I see the general population undervalue the most. Mage pets alone (most of the way up) add solid dps all on their own. When you consider the nuking potential of the owner of that pet as well as the utility they bring to the table with debuffs/summons/CoHs/rods and add that to the static power of the pet that's always there ...

Mages are a great class in EQ.

[Lojik]

I think part of it is that pathing is so wonky here, take a zone like kedge where an npc is 5 feet away, sick pet and suddenly you have mobs from every floor on you.

[Sebastionleo]

Also for mage (or any pet class) you can use your pet as a mana battery in raid situations where you can't use your pet by leaving him parked somewhere safe-ish and clicky reclaim energy on him for 700 mana when you get LOM.

[Daywolf]

Even an afk bard singing hymn of restoration (under 55) or cantana (55+) with a lute equipped will do more for a group than a wizard.
Yet in context of what I said, I'd still rather group with a wizard (paying attention) over a bard (the ones that only rolled bard to take advantage of the strafing bug for easy/fast/safe gameplay).

Someone that plays a wizard - plays a wizard, because they actually like the class and the game. So more likely to make the effort to contribute to a group and not drop off when things get a little boring or challenging.

Just like as it holds true for Cleric. Many reach cap, or near cap, and realize it's not all that great for them, then they burn out. Some people love Cleric though, I mean really really like the class, and play for no other reasons than that they just enjoy it with the good and the bad.

But when you roll something, because it's easy, or fast, or min/max, or etc, other than you just really like the class, the likelihood of you playing that class bad or burning out is significantly higher than if you just played what you wanted to play regardless of the consequences.

[bktroost]

Pet mask is going to increase ench pet dps by 15% . mala into malosini will make ench slow possible in zones like PoM or other areas that usually require a torpor, malosini, slow to start off fights. The magician epic is coming soon to a hate mini near you. That pet does more damage than a monk without disc and has 4k base life to offtank in hate break ins where you can't mezz the golems or in The Hole where there are non mezzable adds. With enchnater mana pump you will lay out so much dps that you won't notice the lack of a rogue. With a warrior and monk you will need to control the attack direction of your pet to interrupt casting mobs like DEs, Yendar, hate gaters, Queen, and ice comit frogs in Seb, etc. With summon companion in your 30s you won't ever have to worry about pet training ever again. Park you pet, move with the group and summon it to you when you get there.

You don't need a rogue to corpse drag because you have a monk for just that. Not having Lockpocking doors is going to bother you when you do HS and if you want to single group chardok royals. Monks can scout pathers for dungeon crawls just like rogues.

The only thing you lose out on by not going rogue is a sneak tagger. If your warrior is a halfling then you have that. If not you will need a good monk until the mage is 55 and can CoTH. The only time you will HAVE to sneak tag something the monk can't solo pull is higher level things that can't be mezzed by the enchanter, such as breaking tola and juggs...and you will be 55 by then.

If you all join a raiding guild together you won't regret either choice.



I need to clarify a comment I made. I said you won't regret either class for raiding. That is only true outside of VP. The Hoshkar aoe is going to wreck your pet. If you don't have the epic pet then you would be using 3.2k hp earth pet and one aoe puts you to 50% health on it. two waves and you are done. VP works better as a rogue because you will be spamming your Wort Pots. You cannot do that on a mage pet. (however, the mage pet will not flip the dragon at 20% like a player will so that's definitely something to consider once you have the epic 4k hp pet.) This is only slightly true for NToV. There they appreciate your power to CoTH.

PS: No, you won't have time to HP buff your pet either if a VP dragon pops.
PSS: What nubs in VP don't know is that you can use your pet to park on the ramp and send it in to blow the first aoe, should the puller not do it in time. Also you have 2x DA (shiny brass idol and your sky ring.)

[Raev]

Have you really parsed your mage epic pet higher than an epic/sos monk?

[bktroost]

Have you really parsed your mage epic pet higher than an epic/sos monk?

Yes. With no proc weapons. Then I got lifetap staves and double dex/double str (to raise his minimum hit) and he is one of the top 5 hitters every time. Parsers also don't count in mage nukes/DoT.

If anyone was curious, the DoT from a mage is a form of magic dot that stacks with all necro and shaman dots. 350 initially, 90 a tick. Nukes for 1000+ fire resist (which lands almost every time on level 70 giants like vindi, velk and such.)

His biggest downfall is that he doesn't have the avoidance skills a monk does. But he does have an innate stun and I use double splitpaw whips at puppets and its a huge damage mitigation.

He quaded once for 81,81,81,81 and proced on each hit: 143 DD, 143 DD, 143 DD, 83 stun. I was pretty excited about that one.

[Raev]

now you've piqued my curiosity. Can you post a few parses?

[ghost182]

necromancer could be a good add to that group if you are lvling befallen/kurn's tower/unrest/ToFS/CoM/Howling Stones/Kaesora etc etc.

[newagemystic]

necro, FD + necro rez to easymode wipes for sure.

[bktroost]

now you've piqued my curiosity. Can you post a few parses?

Sure can. I need to figure out how to get the logs into a text format. I parse a lot for my personal knowledge, but don't ever post it. Looks like he is doing more dps than a 60 epiced monk in most cases, but not when they have Wu's fists. Those guys are topping the charts consistently over him--rogues obviously doing the most and not considering them.

[Zill]

Necromancer u idiots

[Juevento]

VP works better as a rogue because you will be spamming your Wort Pots.

That sounds like an expensive way to deal with VP AoEs.

[trite]

If you could get the druid to reroll as a wizard shaman all the way.... rogue would be pretty good here...your enchanter is going to be doing a lot of work and starting from scratch your warrior is going to have fun keeping agroe with bad gear for awhile =/ having the warrior play a paladin or shadowknight would've been better

[Troxx]

I'm confused why you'd ever want to convince a Druid to reroll as a wiz.

Cruel joke?

[iruinedyourday]

I'm confused why you'd ever want to convince a Druid to reroll as a wiz.

Cruel joke?

Bad ass 6 man group wants to do hate on the regular?

[Diogene]

just to put things in perspective OP SAID

Hi All,

We are a casual/exp group that will play probably once a week

[Cecily]

In PoH, obviously.

[justin2090]

Another Enchanter for back up cc or Ranger to alternate pulling responsibilities with Monk cause we all know pulling gets old really fast.

[Wisteso]

Rogue, best single target DPS in the game.

However, the druid needs reroll. Should go wizard for ability to port the group while actually still being useful. The druid will be 80% redundant after level 20, more-so than having two tanks.

[KillerTofu]

Hi All,

My friends and I are old Classic EQ players finally joining P1999! We are a casual/exp group that will play probably once a week (darned Real Life conflicts).

Everyone else has started already and created their characters. The group composition is currently:

Warrior
Monk
Cleric
Enchanter
Druid

I'm expecting my Titanium disks to arrive tomorrow. So...any suggestions as to what class I should play in this group? I keep going back and forth between Rogue, Bard, Shaman, Wizard, or Magician.....but I'm open to suggestions.

Thank you for your advice, and I look forward to rediscovering the amazing world of Norrath!

rogue