Do you recall frogloks killing the other non-undead mobs in TT on Live?

[Droog007]

I just spent some time in Trakanon's Teeth this evening, and it brought to mind an issue with this server I began to notice some time ago: there was never a single thing on track other than frogloks and the undead iksar mobs (both skeletons and ghosts). On live there was a wide array of different mobs roaming the zone: trakanasaurs, cockatrices, erollisi mantraps, and sabertooth tigers in addition to the aforementioned frogs and undead lizards.

These other mobs WILL spawn, but they are quickly killed by the frogloks of P99's TT.

Think back - do you remember this zone being an absolute moshpit of mobs fighting each other? Some folks here seem to believe that it was, but the imbalance of population on our server is merely due to the fact that the frogloks are both more numerous and more powerful (shamans with higher level spells than they should have).

From the many, many hours of hunter/forager cycling on Live that I did, I cannot recall this constant raging battle between the frogloks and other creatures. Each mob type was well represented, roaming far and wide and minding their own business.

Please vote how you remember TT on Live. Thanks!

[Pokesan]

Tons more kitty cats and flower jerks in TT on Al'Kabor. Though I do think frogs would KOS other frogs of the wrong, uh, suffix? The canni2 yun powder was difficult because of this

[Droog007]

All I've seen for evidence that there was inter-species fighting in TT on live is a rather cryptic vintage post from some old EQ site or another about some guy trying to shift the balance by killing certain mobs. I think one of two things happened there...
1) the guy was nuts
2) there was a temporary faction issue causing the frogloks to attack certain other mobs, and he was just dabbling with it while the bug was in effect. (this one has my vote)

[Droog007]

Tons more kitty cats and flower jerks in TT on Al'Kabor. Though I do think frogs would KOS other frogs of the wrong, uh, suffix? The canni2 yun powder was difficult because of this

I think all frogs on Kunark are cool with each other (FrogloksOfKunark (http://wiki.project1999.com/Frogloks_of_Kunark) faction). IIRC the yun powder was tough simply because the yuns were just one flavor of the mob and thus tricky to find. And if you were deep in the zone where they tended to spawn, you could get quite a train.

[Pokesan]

Now begins the Classhole Incantation

Pinch of salt to seal the ring
fire to please what posts beneath
a touch of hair from maiden fair
sprig of spruce to make our truce
food and wine for the divines

The face of Pokesan grows pale, his eyes seem to quiver with the power of the spell. He attempts to whisper, 'Da-Dal-Daldaen - I choose you!'

Pokesan collapses in a heap, exhausted from the summoning ritual

Yun shamans, my Lord?

[Droog007]

Sundawg has said this is WAD. I respectfully disagree. The proof he offered was a post on the EQMac forum which I can't seem to dig up - maybe someone with better "deep web" skillz than I could help?

Although, honestly - even if this forum post somehow cannot be refuted, then I'd have to just say "wasn't that way on my server" ... because I KNOW that there were not any significant occurrences of NPC in-fighting during my many hours of playtime in this zone during Kunark and Velious eras.

The fact that the shamans have a higher level spellbook than they should is an entirely different issue. They should only be siccing those pets that they shouldn't have on foolish rangers seeking their fortunes.

[indiscriminate_hater]

do rangers actually do the TT cycles? i can't imagine how long it would take one to get a drop

[Badplayer01]

Shamans get their pet at 34. Aren't most of the frog shaman in TT are at or above that lvl?

[Droog007]

do rangers actually do the TT cycles? i can't imagine how long it would take one to get a drop

Usually not solo, but yes.

[Droog007]

Shamans get their pet at 34. Aren't most of the frog shaman in TT are at or above that lvl?

This an entirely different issue, but NPCs in EQ always or almost always had a lower level set of spells than would a PC of the same level - I would guess that they were typically minus one spell rank.

edit: in other words, an NPC shaman would have to be L39 to get the L34 pet spell... that would go along with what I remember. It was easy to spot the highest level shaman frogs in the zone, because they had a blue and white dog running around with them.

[indiscriminate_hater]

most shamans with pets that i see in TT are light-blue to me, which would put them in the 40-44 range

[Droog007]

Nearly all the regular frogloks (not foragers, hunters, or named) in TT are green/LB at level 50. According to the wiki this puts them mostly at level 36 or less. The only frogs that are dark blue at 50 are the yuns, urds, and wans which mainly stick to the southern part of the zone. These would be 37-49, but I'm pretty sure they cap out below the hunter/forager, which are always level 45.

A good portion of the shamans that con green at 50 (and should therefore classically be at spell level 29) have pets when they should not.

Again, this is not the issue I'm trying to confront here.

[Droog007]

My assertion in this matter would be that only the yun and urd shamans L39 and higher should be casting Companion Spirit, Scourge, Malaisement, Winter's Roar, etc.. But I'd rather start by STOPPING THE VIOLENCE!

[Buellen]

This subject has been brought up before.

The issue is a few problem combined ( i am not complaining understood these are hard to fix)

1. pathing - p1999 patching is in many kunark zones totally fubard trakanon teeth is no exception.

2. Caster mobs having full spell books here vs live or eqmac


These are not easy fixes especially pathing .


My personal recollection from eqmac an live frog where happy with other mobs, BUT I'm old so my memory maybe off.

[Droog007]

My personal recollection from eqmac an live frog where happy with other mobs, BUT I'm old so my memory maybe off.

This is the only thing I'm trying to address here - that FrogloksOfKunark will not KOS any other mobs in Trakanon's Teeth. This has nothing to do with pathing or spell ranks.

[indiscriminate_hater]

The lower level shamans (that is, those without pets) definitely cast appropriate-level nukes and dots. If you'd really like you can run up to frogs with pets and let them whack you. The full damage hit will give a precise measure of their level

[Droog007]

The lower level shamans (that is, those without pets) definitely cast appropriate-level nukes and dots. If you'd really like you can run up to frogs with pets and let them whack you. The full damage hit will give a precise measure of their level

I'm not sure what the max hit tables look like here, but I know hunters and foragers on Live were always L45 which gave them a max hit of 117. Here they can hit for 120.

[Droog007]

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/zones.html?zstrat=90#m100320875427069

"The critter mobs (cat, raptor, plant, bird) are all warriors - they have no special attacks or effects, though they can hit hard and fast. They can also be SoWed by wandering Froglok shaman so sometimes they run faster than normal. The Hangman is hasted (because of the haste item he carries)."

Now.... I don't believe this is true. I think frogloks only buff other frogloks (except, oddly, the factionless Hunter and Forager). However, I DO think it presents well as a counter-argument to the idea that they were hostile to each other.

I do believe that the raptor mobs and the tiger mobs have a faster than average runspeed and this is likely what led the poster to believe they had been buffed with SoW. Some of the named mobs like Doom are definitely born with wheels.

[Buellen]

This is the only thing I'm trying to address here - that FrogloksOfKunark will not KOS any other mobs in Trakanon's Teeth. This has nothing to do with pathing or spell ranks.


Pathing comes into play because on p1999 mobs in kunark will wander all over the place. This includes TT zone. The froglock at least the northern most use to wander on live and eqmac in a north to south pattern from graveyard to zone to emerald jungle. their was some that would wander east of the emerald jungle zone line.

Due to pathing problems you have froglock all over the place TT , with full spell book for the caster they will quickly over come any non forelock in the area.

[Droog007]

Pathing comes into play because on p1999 mobs in kunark will wander all over the place. This includes TT zone. The froglock at least the northern most use to wander on live and eqmac in a north to south pattern from graveyard to zone to emerald jungle. their was some that would wander east of the emerald jungle zone line.

Due to pathing problems you have froglock all over the place TT , with full spell book for the caster they will quickly over come any non forelock in the area.

I reject the notion that the frogs should be attacking anything but Player Characters in this zone. If the NPCs were behaving correctly in that regard, it would not matter where they walked or what spells they were able to cast.

That said, I think the pathing and distribution of the patrolling mobs on P99's TT is very similar if not identical to how I remember it on Live. The hunter spawn can generally be found in one of two E/W bands - one near the EJ zone and another at the south wall west of Old Sebilis. The forager spawn can be found in the same southern E/W band and also in a N/S band that runs along the west wall of the fattest part of the zone. There are a large number of other patrolling spawns intermingling with those bands and covering most of the zone. The lower level mobs tend to be in the north while the higher level mobs, like the yuns, urds, and wans which still con blue to a L50 player, are generally found down south.

I've spent a number of hours in P99's TT in recent days, doing the same thing I did 14-15 years ago - tracking the cycles with a ranger. With the exception of several species being essentially extinct due to the frogs' incorrect aggressions, it's pretty much perfect. The spell rank issue is a server-wide problem, not a TT problem.

[Droog007]

Due to pathing problems you have froglock all over the place TT , with full spell book for the caster they will quickly over come any non forelock in the area.

Another thing you seem to be confused about: The roaming spawns can pop as a froglok, a sabertooth, a raptor, a mantrap, or an iksar skeleton.

Here's how I know this: when I zone into TT and start tracking, there's nothing in the zone but frogloks and undead (as long as no players have been actively killing these mobs). When I pull a hunter or forager from across the zone, I sometimes get a froglok or undead add. Also, when fear kiting, sometimes we get adds from mobs that path near our camp. A short time after killing those adds, sometimes I'll notice a sabertooth or a cockatrice on track ... it'll wander around for a short while before meeting its end at the webbed hands of the frogloks. This process repeats until the killed spawn repops as a froglok. This mob is now safe as long as it doesn't pick a fight with a player.

I'd like to be in TT when the zone is reset sometime. Immediately afterwards I could hit tracking and see the variety of mobs that I should be seeing all the time. And if I kept watching track, I would see all the tigers, cockatrices, raptors, and mantraps gradually be replaced by frogloks or skeletons. It's not that the animals are constantly spawning and just kept killed off because there are too many frogs with too much power roaming in too many places - it's that each roaming spawn is eventually populated as a froglok or skeleton... and then there is peace in Trakanon's Teeth.

[Droog007]

I'd be willing to bet that even if there were no froglok shamans in this zone, and instead the frogloks only spawned as the warrior types - we'd have the same outcome. This is not about some delicate balance of power. It's just about incorrect behavior.

[Buellen]

Did some searching

The only reference to my memory of frog locks KOS other mob is this, and its not a direct correlation.

================================================== ====================

"oct 9 2003 patch notes

The Froglok Hunter and Forager will no longer be killed by the inhabitants of Trakanon's Teeth, so they should be easier to find."

================================================== ====================

1) where forager and hunter only ones kos to all and would be assisted by other frog locks when hunter forager where engaged by other mobs ?

or

2) all frog lock where KOS to other mobs and the forager and hunter where flagged this way and needed to be changed ?


*** pathing for forager and hunter sound correct but as to the rest of the mobs in Track Teeth this link has map showing how i remember TT mob behavior.

http://www.antonica.org/forums/messages.php?topicid=21&toffset=0&moffset=0&days=0&PHPSESSID=a9188e002bc1a6004a1dc21c74c45003

Look at his second part it has the mob pathing and concentration and explanations that fit my memory

Hope this helps 8)

[Droog007]

I've found magelo to be a great site for checking out how mobs spawn and where they move around.

Check this page out if you haven't: http://eq.magelo.com/zone/95

Click on a few of the normal mobs and see where they range according to this database. Honestly I think we're pretty close to that. At any rate - I think it's close enough - and as you said, pathing could be a lot of trouble to fiddle around with.

All I want is an attitude adjustment on the FrogloksOfKunark such that they will cease their wanton aggression towards the flora and fauna of Trakanon's Teeth. I truly believe what we have in this respect is NOT classic.

[Droog007]

The roaming spawns can pop as a froglok, a sabertooth, a raptor, a mantrap, or an iksar skeleton.

I left out cockatrices... oops. This bears repeating anyhow - It's important to understand that we don't have 50 cockatrice spawn points, 50 sabertooth tiger spawn points, 100 froglok spawn points (totally made-up numbers), and so on, and that the 50 cockatrices are continually spawning and being quickly dispatched by the powerful and numerous frogloks.

These mobs, as they get killed, are eventually (via RNG and an encounter table) replaced with frogloks.

I fully recognize that the magelo data is updated from Live EQ and can't just be taken at face value without first doing some research to see if it may have remained unchanged all these years - but you can see that the stronger version of the trakanasaur, the trakaraptor, occupies the same patrol zones as the stronger versions of the frogloks, such as the urd shamans. Similarly, the Erollisi man-trap (lower in level than the bloodthorn) runs in the same circles as the froglok shin warriors.

Honestly, at a glance it appears to me that magelo is a very good reference for a classic version of TT if you simply ignore the mobs that have been added over the years.