Vanguard: Sago Of Hero's

[ooantipostoo]

Anyone still play this? I saw the disc laying around over Turkey day break and decided to give it a shot again.

[nilbog]

I moved directly from VG to eqemu. I haven't played in about.. 3 years? The raid zone was due to open when I retired. AQ or something like that.

http://vgplayers.station.sony.com/characters.vm?characterId=51539726404

Best single player game ever :P

[Japan]

Vanguard is the greatest tragedy of my lifetime

[ooantipostoo]

Nilbog I need someone to play with! Should start playing again, heard they changed alot of things. I only played like beta and about a month after that.

Patching as we speak, this is taking forever.

[Kava]

I loved Vanguard... too bad it had so much wrong with it. Diplomacy was a blast, I would play card games all day =p

Now, I am waiting for Rift.

[stormlord]

I finally have a computer that's close enough to give it a whirl, but don't feel like spending any money on it right now. And to be honest, I think EQ2 or Eve-Online or most other things would be a better investment. Why? Because Vanguard is almost dead. Population is at a trickle. They've continued to merge servers and the diehards remain. They won't leave until the servers shutdown. The game doesn't have a future in my view. I don't want to invest in a character in a game that I don't feel will be around several years from now. I think Vanguard is tainted by its original failures before launch. Having SOE buy the rights to Vanguard did not remove this taint. In fact, it might have made it worse since that just makes Vanguard another SOE mmo. Vanguard got lost in the crowd of SOE games. Vanguard has always seemed somehow weak or confused or clumsy. That has always bothered me and makes me not trust it and without trust I do not want to touch it.

I have nothing against Brad McQuaid as a designer. I don't like WoW games. I liked SWG the way it was before NGE. I don't like the 'iconic heroes' that Smedley barfs out of his mouth. But none of this has anything to do with Brad. In fact, Brad was well aware of all of the things that would make Vanguard more WoW-like or 'easier' and supported them for the most part. As a designer he understood the need for some of those things, but as a designer he could see past the trees and see the forest itself. The same can't be said for most players who regurgitate what they've seen in one place and crap it out in another. Most players do not have any understand about game design or MMO development. They just have a rough handle on what they think they like in these games. For hte most part, most designers will pick apart any game from any company whether it's WoW or Aion or EQ2 or something from an indie company. Designers are very open minded about these things and love to discuss it. It's not a war between WoW and other games. It's not a war between veterans and noobs. It's just a very confusing place and I hope you don't get lost in it because i've been there and know how it's.

I've recently played DDO, Entropia Universe and have thought about trying Dawntide in its open beta. Personally, I think the game will flounder unless it can really figure out where it belongs. So many MMOs fail and for many reasons. Right now Eve-Online looks real good to me.

I also think that with all of the fuss about MMORPGs, we're losing sight of single player RPGs and just how fun they can be. I hope that as an industry it's not left to the wayside. MMOs are not the holy grail. A quick run over to store.steampowered.com opens up a world of history to people. Some of hte RPGs I have on my wish-list are: Gothic I/II/III/IV, Evil Islands: Cursed of the Lost Soul, Kings Bounty: The Legend, Torchlight (diablo-like), Baldures Gate 1/2 (quest-oriented), Icewind Dale 1/2 (combat-oriented), Wizardry series (all the way back to the 80's), 1701 A.D. (wanted to check this one out, although it's not really rpg), and on and on and on. There're a number of them from the 80's and early 90's that offer a very unique style of play that's hard to find anymore. So many great games out there, in fact, there're too many to enjoy in a single lifetime. And this is not accounting for all of hte games that have yet to be. All of the awesome potentials to be realized.

I've skipped a crapload of strategy/pseudo-rpg games like Jagged Alliance 1/2.

As for running OLD games, go on over to http://www.dosbox.com/. I've used and works very well.

So much history, so much possibility, and so little time.

[quellren]

My perception of Vanguard was always that it was bigger and badder than EQ. My brother told me it made him feel like the early days of EQ again, where you were nothing and the game didn't owe you anything, or care if you ever left the starter area.
I think that intimidated a lot of people who really got burnt out on the leveling treadmill that was EQ in the beginning.
I shied away from it due to the publicity that it was every bit as all-consuming in-your-face immersive as EQ and then some. With other companies making casual-friendly games that could be played productively for an hour at a time( not just WoW), it made it pretty unappealing to think Vanguard would require weeks of killing aggressive fauna to see any accomplishment.

[Japan]

The fact that it was catering to the hardcore poopsocker definitely limited VG's sales potential, but I'll tell you the game was utter shit even for those in the target market.

I'd love to see the guy who did the Fred Leuchter documentary do one for McQuaid.

[Yinikren]

Vanguard was an amazing game. Fuck Japan and all you naysayers.

[korrowan]

I loved VG but I hated the fact that it was released a year too early and how that killed the community and I hate guild hopping everytime the guild falls apart because they all quit. The bugs and crashes killed the game.. the gameplay was amazing and was immensely fun.

[Ardenya]

Vanguard was indeed a great game and definitely the best PvE MMO I have ever played. Its a real shame it never came into its own after the horrible launch. They screwed people big time back then.

Still, I admire and respect Sigil's plans and "vision"(tm) for Vanguard since they implemented alot of ideas which we used to love in EQ and miss dearly in modern games. They had great, in part the best, people in the industry working on the game, Keith Parkinson and Steve "Aruspex (http://livingworlds.blogspot.com/)" Williams being among them. It makes me kinda sad to see that their marvelous work dwindles down to meaninglessness.

If only SOE would have held their word and would have taken care of the game the way it deserved, they might have turned the boat around and kept Vanguard alive and floating. Right now, who in their sane mind would start playing a game like this seriously when there is no chance of new content comng out anytime soon?

In sight of recent events in the industry, I think the best chance for Vanguard to survive ist to bring in alot of new players by doing what others have done sucessfully: go free-to-play. SOE already has everything in place to do this. They have expereince with microtransactions from Free Realms and even recently with EQ as well as a cash store. Vanguard also could support all kind of store items like mounts, housing items and plots, etc. Should Vanguard ever be able to generate money, only then there might be new content and a future coming.

Anyway, some time ago Brad posted an extensive VG post-mortem on his blog which is a very interesting read for anyone interested, especially the comments.

Part 1 (http://bradmcquaid.com/Brad_McQuaid/Blog/Entries/2009/6/29_Vanguard__Post-mortem_Part_1.html)
Part 2 (http://bradmcquaid.com/Brad_McQuaid/Blog/Entries/2009/7/12_Vanguard__Post-mortem_Part_2.html)
Part 3 (http://bradmcquaid.com/Brad_McQuaid/Blog/Entries/2009/8/9_Vanguard__Post-mortem_Part_3.html)
Part 4 (http://bradmcquaid.com/Brad_McQuaid/Blog/Entries/2009/9/22_Vanguard__Post-mortem_Part_4.html)

[stormlord]

Vanguard was indeed a great game and definitely the best PvE MMO I have ever played. Its a real shame it never came into its own after the horrible launch. They screwed people big time back then.

Still, I admire and respect Sigil's plans and "vision"(tm) for Vanguard since they implemented alot of ideas which we used to love in EQ and miss dearly in modern games. They had great, in part the best, people in the industry working on the game, Keith Parkinson and Steve "Aruspex (http://livingworlds.blogspot.com/)" Williams being among them. It makes me kinda sad to see that their marvelous work dwindles down to meaninglessness.

If only SOE would have held their word and would have taken care of the game the way it deserved, they might have turned the boat around and kept Vanguard alive and floating. Right now, who in their sane mind would start playing a game like this seriously when there is no chance of new content comng out anytime soon?

In sight of recent events in the industry, I think the best chance for Vanguard to survive ist to bring in alot of new players by doing what others have done sucessfully: go free-to-play. SOE already has everything in place to do this. They have expereince with microtransactions from Free Realms and even recently with EQ as well as a cash store. Vanguard also could support all kind of store items like mounts, housing items and plots, etc. Should Vanguard ever be able to generate money, only then there might be new content and a future coming.

Anyway, some time ago Brad posted an extensive VG post-mortem on his blog which is a very interesting read for anyone interested, especially the comments.

Part 1 (http://bradmcquaid.com/Brad_McQuaid/Blog/Entries/2009/6/29_Vanguard__Post-mortem_Part_1.html)
Part 2 (http://bradmcquaid.com/Brad_McQuaid/Blog/Entries/2009/7/12_Vanguard__Post-mortem_Part_2.html)
Part 3 (http://bradmcquaid.com/Brad_McQuaid/Blog/Entries/2009/8/9_Vanguard__Post-mortem_Part_3.html)
Part 4 (http://bradmcquaid.com/Brad_McQuaid/Blog/Entries/2009/9/22_Vanguard__Post-mortem_Part_4.html)I feel happy for you that you're so optimistic about Vanguard but ... why is free-to-play always the answer brought up by people now? What's so great about it? I tried DDO and that uses micro-transactions to fund the game. Personally, I don't like it very much. Entropia does the same thing. They're both, technically, free-to-play. However, what I don't like about micro-transactions is they're often not capped on a per month basis. So the company can get the players addicted and then encourage them to spend vast amounts per month to get ahead of the pack. If there's no cap put in place, say a $40 per month cap or something of that nature, then I personally do not feel micro-transactions are an answer. They're, simply, a way for companies to get more money than they did on a subscription plan. (and i mourn for those that get addicted to spending)

[thefloydian]

I feel happy for you that you're so optimistic about Vanguard but ... why is free-to-play always the answer brought up by people now? What's so great about it? I tried DDO and that uses micro-transactions to fund the game. Personally, I don't like it very much. Entropia does the same thing. They're both, technically, free-to-play. However, what I don't like about micro-transactions is they're often not capped on a per month basis. So the company can get the players addicted and then encourage them to spend vast amounts per month to get ahead of the pack. If there's no cap put in place, say a $40 per month cap or something of that nature, then I personally do not feel micro-transactions are an answer. They're, simply, a way for companies to get more money than they did on a subscription plan. (and i mourn for those that get addicted to spending)

I think the point is that regardless of how you feel about the free-to-play model, it has worked for other games that looked as if they were about to die.

[Japan]

Vanguard was an amazing game. Fuck Japan and all you naysayers.

i played to level cap at launch.

80% of my playtime was spent in zones that hadn't been itemized (not even coin drops) and had no quests. The game was shit.

[Ardenya]

I think the point is that regardless of how you feel about the free-to-play model, it has worked for other games that looked as if they were about to die.

Exactly, thats my point. Personally, I detest micropayments, Station/Cryptic Store and the likes. I have played many games over the years but not once did I buy anything for a game with real money besides the montly access fee. Especially the combination of a subscription and a store like SOE does it smells very fishy to me. As soon as something store-bought would affect my gameplay in a way that it felt needed (the only way to respec, xp potions to speed up a boring and long grind to a bearable level) I would probably stop playing altogether.

Still, as seen with DDO, for a dying game switching from a sub to F2P with a cash store might be a great way to introduce new players to a game by taking away the entry barrier of a sub. Although I fully agree with you stormlord, F2P and item stores leave a bad taste, just as SOE's latest invention: EQ2 Extended. Every sensible customer will realize that hes better off just paying the monthly sub. Yet, its an interesting concept to introduce a more flexible way of paying for what you want in a product.

Lets face it, there are many people like me who would love to play VG and pay for it but simply wont put money into a dead product. I realize that content and dev support comes with subs and increased revenue rates but this train is long gone. I have payed and played it for over 1.5 years and seen APW (VG's raiding dungeon which was very fun actually) take a what, a year to be released, the promised follow-up raid zone Nexus and all other additional content which is not daily quests to grind to be postponed until further notice. It was about then when I canceled my sub. Now if the game itself was F2P I would at least play it which by itself is an improvement.

[Rayun]

I might give this game a try, if anyone is interested send me a pm

[dallammarr]

I moved directly from VG to eqemu. I haven't played in about.. 3 years? The raid zone was due to open when I retired. AQ or something like that.

http://vgplayers.station.sony.com/characters.vm?characterId=51539726404

Best single player game ever :P

The raid dungeon is called Ancient Port Warehouse (APW) and was designed for people aroun level 50 which was the level cap at the time. The level cap is now 55 which a new raid zone was designed for called Pantheon of the Ancients. I did most of APW, it was fun, but stopped playing soon after that. VG was indeed one of the best MMOs around, sad shame it has no real future.

[stormlord]

Exactly, thats my point. Personally, I detest micropayments, Station/Cryptic Store and the likes. I have played many games over the years but not once did I buy anything for a game with real money besides the montly access fee. Especially the combination of a subscription and a store like SOE does it smells very fishy to me. As soon as something store-bought would affect my gameplay in a way that it felt needed (the only way to respec, xp potions to speed up a boring and long grind to a bearable level) I would probably stop playing altogether.

Still, as seen with DDO, for a dying game switching from a sub to F2P with a cash store might be a great way to introduce new players to a game by taking away the entry barrier of a sub. Although I fully agree with you stormlord, F2P and item stores leave a bad taste, just as SOE's latest invention: EQ2 Extended. Every sensible customer will realize that hes better off just paying the monthly sub. Yet, its an interesting concept to introduce a more flexible way of paying for what you want in a product.

Lets face it, there are many people like me who would love to play VG and pay for it but simply wont put money into a dead product. I realize that content and dev support comes with subs and increased revenue rates but this train is long gone. I have payed and played it for over 1.5 years and seen APW (VG's raiding dungeon which was very fun actually) take a what, a year to be released, the promised follow-up raid zone Nexus and all other additional content which is not daily quests to grind to be postponed until further notice. It was about then when I canceled my sub. Now if the game itself was F2P I would at least play it which by itself is an improvement.Point taken, but please understand that if DDO hadn't been free-to-play I probably would not have tried it. But the fact that I tried it does not mean micro-transactions are a success and that free-to-play will always work. I would rather like to see capped micro-transactions, especially if you can buy things that directly impact gameplay, or something else altogether different like ad revenue or payed-for customer service. I don't think that free-to-play is the only answer, and I think it's trendy to bring it up because micro-transactions are becoming increasingly popular. I think companies are starting to find out they can make MORE money with them than without them precisely because there's no cap. A middelman is needed to stop this mess.

And most other free games that i've seen that, to be honest, are not on the same level of games that I've payed for. There's this whole argument that no-strings-attached free games can be just as good as p2p games, but I've never seen an example that satisfied me. But i've never cared that free games don't have the same quality because I usually overlook that in favor of just playing the game; project1999 is a good example. And it seems like micro-transactions are the new ploy to get people to pay money to play. Games like DDO are NOT free, and people creating an account because they think it's are being misled.

Besides, I got tired of DDOs gameplay style as well. Yes, it's true that micro-transactions make the whole thing feel sour, but I also hated being rushed by groups when doing quests. I had the most fun in DDO when I was alone by myself and doing things solo, but then I would always get a desire to join a group. The problem in DDO is that in a group everyone is rushed to keep up and to complete the tasks. It's hard to enjoy the story and immersion when you can't go at your own pace. That really ruined it for me, in addition to the bad feeling micro-transactions give me. Before DDO I was playing Entropia Universe. In that game micro-transactions are even worse and totally spoil it. So to be fair, I went into DDO with a very bad taste in my mouth already.

[stormlord]

..... I have payed and played it for over 1.5 years and seen APW (VG's raiding dungeon which was very fun actually) take a what, a year to be released, the promised follow-up raid zone Nexus and all other additional content which is not daily quests to grind to be postponed until further notice. It was about then when I canceled my sub. Now if the game itself was F2P I would at least play it which by itself is an improvement.Your perspective is different because you've tried VG. VG is failing because of those people who HAVEN'T tried it. So no matter what you think VG is or isn't, you're probably missing the point.

When Vanguard released I watched it. I didn't have a computer that could run it, but I kept track of what was going on. To be honest, I think it was a disaster. I also regret them removing some of hte things like the EE system for items where you could remove one slot and equip a more powerful item in another. Months turned into years and before long I hardly recognized Vanguard. And it was the same story over and over. People left. The game has always been dying. It doesn't ever seem to get better no matter what it does. It's like that child that gets an illness and no matter how many people pray for it god and his angels still claim its life.

Have you considered that maybe there's no answer? Maybe Vanguard will in fact die? The Matrix did. It's kind of a darn shame too because now I wish I had tried The Matrix. There's just so many MMOs now that it's impossible for me to filter all of them. I get tied up in the one I'm doing and it's like all the others don't exist.

Besides, if project1999 is hte last MMO I play, that wouldn't be so bad.

You know what I really want? I want project1999 with upgraded graphics and upgraded systems and just all around everything is upgraded. Keep the gameplay. Maybe add a more robust travel system - maybe just add some more bind points or something. I like eq's gameplay this way, mostly, but it's just so old in so many ways. Pathing mechanics suck. The UI sucks. A lot of things suck, but I overlook it all to play the game. It's not that bad. If you want to group in this game, you can. If you want to solo, you can. In fact, if solo is preferred you can do a necro or mage or druid and you'll coast. It's a great playstyle for people who like to do two things at once. Like clean your house or watch tv or work on a small proejct while doing this game at the same time. Those things are almost impossible to do at the same time if you're in a group. Grouping is very limiting.

To be honest, I'll probably never see a real EQ 2. It'll always disappoint me. The real journey is in single player RPGs. With those, you can customize the game to your preferences. It can be what you want it to be and not some generic ripoff of the latest trends in gaming. I still play games that're 20 years old and have fun. I see no reason to rush. I like to appreciate all of it. And best of all, I can do it all at my own pace.

I could pop open an old pen&paper game from the 1970's and I'm confident that I could grab any random person in this game and have a good tabletop session for the night. It's all about customizing the game to yourself. With those kinds of games you could change the rules. It was every bit as satisfying and a lot more social.

So... I'm not going to sweat over Vanguard or the latest MMORPG. Life will go on with or without it.

[dallammarr]

Your perspective is different because you've tried VG. VG is failing because of those people who HAVEN'T tried it. So no matter what you think VG is or isn't, you're probably missing the point.

When Vanguard released I watched it. I didn't have a computer that could run it, but I kept track of what was going on. To be honest, I think it was a mess. I also regret them removing some of hte things like the EE system for items where you could remove one slot and equip a more powerful item in another. Months turned into years and before long I hardly recognized Vanguard. And it was the same story over and over. People left. The game has always been dying. It doesn't ever seem to get better no matter what it does. It's like that child that gets an illness and no matter how many people pray for it god and his angels still claim its life.

Have you considered that maybe there's no answer? Maybe Vanguard will in fact die? The Matrix did. It's kind of a darn shame too because now I wish I had tried The Matrix. There's just so many MMOs now that it's impossible for me to filter all of them. I get tied up in the one I'm doing and it's like all the others don't exist.

VG is not only dieing because of those who have not tried it, its dieing also becuase SOE doesnt care to promote the game. Granted it didnt have a lot of players due to its shoddy launch, but the game was fairly bustleing for about 2 years after its launch. Then last year Silius dropped the bomb stating that basically after Pantheon, all other plans for more raid zones and content would be shelved (save for Magi Hold which is fun but doesnt take long to complete and really isn't Raid, its mostly solo/group content for post 50). Also in that announcement, Silius stated that they were "considering a server merge." The truth is SOE knew with news like that, most players would end up leaving therefore making it feasable for them to kill off almost all the servers and now the game is simply on life support. 1 of 2 things will most likely happen. 1. SOE will pull the plug on it with in a year or two as it did with Matrix. 2. it will go f2p, which might give it enough life to live to make it to the launch of EQ next, and then depending upon the revenue generated from VG at the time EQ next is launched, they will make a decision on what to do with VG. One thing you can bet on is they are not going to develop anymore content for it, not anytime in the near future atleast so eventually once you have several alts at level 55, theres nothing more to do.

[to0p]

VG EMU CLASSIC
make it like it used to be
no helmets..

:D

[stormlord]

VG EMU CLASSIC
make it like it used to be
no helmets..

:DDoes that include the bugs and performance issues (hitching, high system requirements)? And where will you find a population large enough to fill a world that even Brad himself says is too big? And how will you convince everyone else out there that anything is different? Nay, they will avoid VG in all its flavors like the plague.

It's hard to earn respect, but easy to lose it. Heard this before?

More non-answers.

To VGs credit, Brad admitted that most people quit VG in the first couple levels of play. There're only a few things that can cause someone to quit so promptly. Whatever the reason was, it was not because of a thorough review of the game. This hints that maybe there IS an answer. But, I don't think it's obvious.

It's like this game. I'm having fun, but it's tough. I die several times it seems every day or two. It's brutal. I am wise enough to know that this kind of game would never work in the mainstream market. It would fall deader than dinosaur bones. You have to realize a niche idea when you see it and you have to know how to target it. If you don't get it, then you're in for a world of pain. I don't know for sure if that's what VG did wrong, but it did something wrong. If it hadn't, I doubt it would have lost so many people in its first year. It failed spectacularly.

If it was performance, then why did people not leave everquest in 1999? I remember probably experiencing 5-10fps in the cities. It was better outside them, but even upgrading my computer didn't eliminate stutter-ness. I don't remember any serious bugs, though. I usually overlook graphics if I like a game.

Seeing how high penalty as a feature of the rpg genre is niche, it's interesting that I didn't judge this game based on how difficult it was when I played it in 1999. (I'm subtly saying that high penalty is similar to high difficulty, but lets just assume for the sake of simplicity that high penalty and high difficulty are interchangeable terms.) Back then I didn't have anything to compare it to (i hadn't played anything). But now that the market has established itself, a tough game is necessarily a niche not belonging to the mainstream. I don't think VG is on the same difficulty curve that project1999 is, but that's my own opinion. I can't imagine much in the mainstream market that's as tough as i've had it on project1999. If I hadn't experienced this in 1999 I might very well avoid it, but having experienced it I'm more accepting. It's hard for me to accept that people playing VG would quit within the first few levels just because they thought it was somehow too tough. Gauging difficulty is not easy and takes time. I'm open to this idea, but I don't think it's solid enough.

My bet is bugs and ... polish. Compared to WoW at that time VG must have been a real mess. I bet people tried VG and saw how it was a mess and then just went back to the previous games they were playing that were, at least compared to it, far more playable and enjoyable for them. Why have they not retried VG to find that it's so much better and playable? Well, my bet is some people just forgot about VG or they never get over their first impressions. Remember that first impressions can last a lifetime. And perhaps VG really hasn't got a lot better than it was initially. Also look at how SOE hasn't given it the funds it needs to really improve on itself. Perhaps the initial loss of players when people decided VG wasn't good enough was all it took to kill it later on because there wasn't enough money to recover. So all this time VG has been trying to survive on too little profit and first impressions are proving prophetic in this case even though it doesn't give VG any justice.

[MoonlightStoner]

I loved vanguard at first :( wish they had released raid content faster tho was first 50 halfling warrior on my server if not the game can't remember the server name like doomfire or something I think too many games, too many servers haha my name was Deranged Lunatic tho.....are they expansions in? I wouldn't mind playing again if they had released some better content but it got boring at 50

[KilyenaMage]

Vanguard was an amazing game. Fuck Japan and all you naysayers.

I really had a LOT of fun playing VG when it was released. Apparently I was one of the fortunate ones, because I **NEVER** had any of the crashes etc. that everyone complained about.

Granted I was running a then-$400 top-of-the-line Nvidia 8800 gtx.

It definately had the old world EQ feel to it - and yes the game world is massive.

[Scrooge]

Too bad the emulated version never made it to the surface.

[RKromwell]

I really had a LOT of fun playing VG when it was released. Apparently I was one of the fortunate ones, because I **NEVER** had any of the crashes etc. that everyone complained about.

Granted I was running a then-$400 top-of-the-line Nvidia 8800 gtx.

It definately had the old world EQ feel to it - and yes the game world is massive.

This, I never had crashing problems and my card was step or two down from yours.

I would play it again in a heartbeat if I could afford to play it. I just don't have the time or extra money any more. I will say this, I loved the paladins in that game...loved them.

[KilyenaMage]

Lol. I played on the PvP server with old friends from Tallon Zek. We had a Paladin named Bimli - toon was basically unkillable.

The classes in Vanguard were really well done - Paladins had what? Virtue Points was it!?

[Metasummon]

I beta tested this game and never made it to launch transition. I reported multiple bugs and exploits and even had a few pow-wows with the GMs about them, but none of them were ever fixed.

Heck one was so bad that you could stand on a bridge over the river/dam in one spot and cast on anything around and kill it without it ever pathing to you. Was still there when they shut down beta.

[Rahnza]

Vanguard was the best worst game ever.

Vanguard was an amazing game. Fuck Japan and all you naysayers.

Japan was pretty right-on though. How many Vanguard launch players were ex-EQers? I'm assuming a vast majority. Ex EQ players are hardcore MMOers by definition. Yet, Vanguard failed to deliver to the hardcore. It's not impossible to make another EQ-esque game (although no one has succeeded yet), but Vanguard got the closest (and was still miles from the mark). A lot of things were in place, but the most important thing (content/balance) was completely missing. It's like creating the greatest engineering school in the world, but not offering an engineering degree after you complete your schooling. The journey (leveling/grinding/questing) was fucking spot on and gorgeously designed, but after awhile you realized it was pointless. The game was one beautiful facade.

[Galv]

I played VG for a few months about two years ago. I really enjoyed the game play, the only problem was the low player base. I really liked how they implemented the classes, IMO the classes in that game were the best of any MMO I have played.

The blood mage, paladin, bard, and shadowknight were the classes I really read up on and/or played.

The way you could "write" a song that provided several effects was really cool. It was kind of unique not really twisting or the melody thing EQ ended up doing.

I played a paladin and the combat chains were really cool, plus the reatice combat system where you could intervene for a group mate was neat.

I thought the game was very polished from that aspect.

[Peatree]

I played a goblin warrior named Grench. Level'd him up all the way to 50...and he was a level 50 blacksmith too...DEAR LORD the grind for blacksmithing was a beating...sad the game has died out. Had some potential. My little green gobbie looked so cool on his Shadowhound mount!

[KilyenaMage]

Vanguard was the best worst game ever.



Japan was pretty right-on though. How many Vanguard launch players were ex-EQers? I'm assuming a vast majority. Ex EQ players are hardcore MMOers by definition. Yet, Vanguard failed to deliver to the hardcore. It's not impossible to make another EQ-esque game (although no one has succeeded yet), but Vanguard got the closest (and was still miles from the mark). A lot of things were in place, but the most important thing (content/balance) was completely missing. It's like creating the greatest engineering school in the world, but not offering an engineering degree after you complete your schooling. The journey (leveling/grinding/questing) was fucking spot on and gorgeously designed, but after awhile you realized it was pointless. The game was one beautiful facade.

Lol pretty much all true. We used to call it Vanguard: Saga of North Korea (cuz it was all a facade)

I remember exploring maybe a DOZEN islands with my guild (high lvl areas) and only ONE of the was itemized. Each island had a large temple on hit, and inside there were some AMAZING boss fights - none of which dropped any items lol.

Sure the exploration was fun though...really felt like old-school EQ.

[Japan]

My friend and I were some of the last stubborn fools on Woefeather trying to finish the level grind. We logged in and saw in the patch notes that his monk's DPS was now nerfed and so was my cleric's. We log in at the camp we were duoing fine the day before, and we do so little combined damage that we can't outdamage the mob's HP regen. This mob was fucking trivial yesterday - we can stand here getting hit for an hour and I can keep up with heals, but we can't kill it today. We log out disgusted.

The next day we log in and see his monk has been buffed. Today he is overpowered beyond anything reasonable, and we race 3 levels to the cap overnight in a duo (after taking 2-3 days per level prior) by AOEing raid-mob strength trash in what looks like it could be a raid zone someday. The next day he is nerfed back to where he was a week prior, but who cares? We finally made it.

There is no guild to join. There is one stupid alien-looking mob at the bottom of a pit to raid, but his pool of 3-4 items were ours before we hit level cap. We can't kill him anymore anyway. We stayed because the community of idiots trying to hit level cap was a lot of fun, but now we're the only ones left. The last 10 levels were spent in empty, unitemized, drab desert, and that setting really does fit the finale of that game.

That fucking game.

[OngorDrakan]

My guild and I thought it was going to be the next EQ. It failed miserably. It was worse than anything. There were parts I liked. But pathing, items, etc. It was trash. Just horrible programmed. It needed time but Sony wasn't going to wait. It needed more time.