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Detoxx
12-04-2015, 01:06 AM
Can we come to some sort of agreement for this? This is absolutely insane to have a 300 person zerg fest racing for a Dain that everyone knows when its spawning. Its a mess.

I propose that whoever fails the ring war, gets first rights on that Dain. Simple, fair and makes sense.

Anichek
12-04-2015, 11:24 AM
The problem with that suggestion, as much as it makes sense, is that Dain's going to turn into a farmfest because you could, in theory, spawn one every 2.5 hours.

Not that killing Dain is the problem, it's the fact that it's disruptive to Thurgadin and everyone who's not involved in trying to kill Dain.

Sorry I don't have a suggestion on how to do it. I just see the problems created by facilitating a guaranteed clean Dain shot for guilds - they impact everyone trying to use Thurgadin for anything from banking to tradeskills, etc.

Pint
12-04-2015, 02:48 PM
Isn't it 2 hours every 3 days? That's not really that bad. People will probably ramp up ring war action soon anyway so it might end up happening anyway.

arsenalpow
12-04-2015, 02:58 PM
The ring war as currently constructed is literally impossible, a few guilds have tried and now it's a well known fact. The final wave mechanic is broken, not to mention all the falling under the world. With that in mind anyone triggering a war is doing so for the Dain attempt upon failure of the war, which isn't classic anyways. Dain shouldn't be repopping like that.

Pint
12-04-2015, 03:03 PM
I dunno I think its winnable, we got 1/3 warlords with ~20 ppl from each FAT guild, pretty sure we all know we can double that

Erati
12-04-2015, 03:06 PM
It does seem wrong that Dain spawns in this manner - but partly makes sense, you fail the War you will need to speak to him about new declarations etc

This server obviously doesnt let you speak with him very long but the original devs may have thought more about the quest than the actual act of downing city leaders for heads.


I know there is another thread specific to this issue - what was the resolution - Dain spawning on failed Ring War - Is it classic ? I remember reading that it would be difficult for Nilbog to separate out a specific mob from a repoping zone mechanic but I also have not read that thread in a while. It doesnt make much sense to try to build a policy around something that will get changed tho.

Here is the thread: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212471&highlight=Dain

arsenalpow
12-04-2015, 03:23 PM
I dunno I think its winnable, we got 1/3 warlords with ~20 ppl from each FAT guild, pretty sure we all know we can double that

The issue is the last wave just doesn't stop running. You could be right on top of them swinging, dropping clickies, they just ignore and run.

Anichek
12-04-2015, 05:31 PM
Isn't it 2 hours every 3 days? That's not really that bad. People will probably ramp up ring war action soon anyway so it might end up happening anyway.

You're right, I didn't finish my thought very well, it's 2 hours every 3 days.

But tradeskills and banking, yo. And ringwars WILL ramp up if it's guarateed encounters.

If a push for a mutual agreement by all raid guilds is in place to support the Failed War = first shot @ Dain, as long as it's 100% agreed upon I could see it gaining some steam.

Erati
12-04-2015, 07:09 PM
If a push for a mutual agreement by all raid guilds is in place to support the Failed War = first shot @ Dain, as long as it's 100% agreed upon I could see it gaining some steam.

Might as well have a Ring War/Dain schedule if this is the route it will end up being <3

Erati
12-04-2015, 07:17 PM
it's 2 hours every 3 days.


also about that

http://i.imgur.com/dQwZgTi.jpg

Sentry Badain is up right now, he should not be. I think I remember this mentioned in one of the bug reports, but this currently is not functioning properly.

arsenalpow
12-05-2015, 12:18 AM
The ring war as currently constructed is literally impossible, a few guilds have tried and now it's a well known fact. The final wave mechanic is broken, not to mention all the falling under the world. With that in mind anyone triggering a war is doing so for the Dain attempt upon failure of the war, which isn't classic anyways. Dain shouldn't be repopping like that.

So I guess that means it was time to do another ring war tonight after yesterday's ring war. More unclassic known bug Dain clusterfucks for everyone!

Hokushin
12-10-2015, 10:55 PM
Will agree til its fixed

Detoxx
12-10-2015, 10:58 PM
Will agree til its fixed

There needs to be more than this. We cant just allow people to spam Ring Attempts for free Dains. Can we agree on something like 1 Warlord must be slain to count as a valid attempt at ring war?

Otherwise this will be a mess.

Pint
12-10-2015, 11:00 PM
Asgard can get behind 1 wave 3 warlord for earning a free Dain. Failures in wave 1 or 2 mean you didnt bring enough people or didnt put up a real attempt and should not net you a free Dain. This is obviously temporary until staff fixes the underlying issue.

Hokushin
12-10-2015, 11:10 PM
2 warlords+

Detoxx
12-10-2015, 11:14 PM
2 warlords+

Signed

Pint
12-10-2015, 11:14 PM
2 warlords+

signed

arsenalpow
12-10-2015, 11:20 PM
No thanks. Ring war is a ring war is a ring war.

Erati
12-10-2015, 11:21 PM
2 warlords sounds good to me

are we sure this wont still cause a bunch of spam click headaches at the Sentry tho ( add Scout name text to it? hehe ) - can we agree to some kind of ....'gulp' rotation on it hehe

Pint
12-10-2015, 11:26 PM
i dont think we will need it for ring turn ins if you need 2 warlord kills for your dain then nobody is going to spur of the moment that i dont think. bda can refuse and we can contest theirs and not each others i guess, pretty sure we all know how that will pan out.

Detoxx
12-10-2015, 11:31 PM
No thanks. Ring war is a ring war is a ring war.

Not agreeing to this, you realize, is not in your best interest? This is completely fair and reasonable. Its something that you can do with your guild as a scheduled prime-time event.

Why do you not want to agree?

arsenalpow
12-10-2015, 11:40 PM
Not agreeing to this, you realize, is not in your best interest? This is completely fair and reasonable. Its something that you can do with your guild as a scheduled prime-time event.

Why do you not want to agree?

Because you're doing ring wars full well knowing the encounter isn't winnable due to the mechanics. BDA did two wars. Once at the start of velious, and a 2nd time after a patch. Both times we had staff there to yank giants out of the ground. We supplied full logs of giants with broken mechanics, giants with absurd AC, and giants falling under the world.

Despite full well knowing the encounter is broken you're still doing this crap. You even did it two days in a row. It's blatant abuse of a known bug to get free Dains. On top of that when people try to contest a Dain you purposefully pull shady tactics (which of course you've flatly denied) and acted like children to the point where Sirken banned three guilds from the encounter for two weeks.

I'm not going to collude with you to exploit a known bug. There shouldn't be any more ring wars until the next patch assuming there's some points in there about adjustments to the encounter.

Pint
12-10-2015, 11:41 PM
war is very winnable. next excuse.

arsenalpow
12-10-2015, 11:44 PM
war is very winnable. next excuse.

Giants currently undefeated despite every single raid mob in the game dying already. Obviously everyone just isn't geared enough yet. #eyeroll

Detoxx
12-10-2015, 11:53 PM
Because you're doing ring wars full well knowing the encounter isn't winnable due to the mechanics. BDA did two wars. Once at the start of velious, and a 2nd time after a patch. Both times we had staff there to yank giants out of the ground. We supplied full logs of giants with broken mechanics, giants with absurd AC, and giants falling under the world.

Despite full well knowing the encounter is broken you're still doing this crap. You even did it two days in a row. It's blatant abuse of a known bug to get free Dains. On top of that when people try to contest a Dain you purposefully pull shady tactics (which of course you've flatly denied) and acted like children to the point where Sirken banned three guilds from the encounter for two weeks.

I'm not going to collude with you to exploit a known bug. There shouldn't be any more ring wars until the next patch assuming there's some points in there about adjustments to the encounter.

So Rampages attempt today was an exploit? Ours was when we all got very close? Just because Chest thinks its not winnable, does not mean its not winnable.

Judging by this post, your agreeance isn't required anyways.

Also, I dont appreciate baseless accusations by not only you, but your entire guild, being thrown at me for something you know nothing about. Its very unbecoming. Doing it 2 days in a row was a result of, get this, getting very close to winning and wanting to try again.

The dev's are aware of this, have not addressed it, therefore its not an exploit. This is not a discussion about whether it's and exploit or not though, this is a discussion about avoiding the mess that was a few Dains ago.

arsenalpow
12-10-2015, 11:58 PM
So Rampages attempt today was an exploit? Ours was when we all got very close? Just because Chest thinks its not winnable, does not mean its not winnable.

Judging by this post, your agreeance isn't required anyways.

Also, I dont appreciate baseless accusations being thrown at me for something you know nothing about. Its very unbecoming.

I don't believe rampage had attempted a ring war until today. Now that they have an attempt in I'd assume they'll likely leave it off the list of things to do. That's a far cry from attempting it one day, failing, and running it back the next day again.

And my accusations aren't baseless, we both know what happened. Keep fronting though.

Edit: why do you have to be explicitly told something isn't allowed before you stop doing that something. Have some goddamn integrity. That mentality is what destroys the raid scene and it's not specific to you or your guild, it's the pervasive mindset that turns the utopia that this server should be into LawyerQuest frapsquest manchild theater.

Detoxx
12-11-2015, 12:02 AM
I don't believe rampage had attempted a ring war until today. Now that they have an attempt in I'd assume they'll likely leave it off the list of things to do. That's a far cry from attempting it one day, failing, and running it back the next day again.

And my accusations aren't baseless, we both know what happened. Keep fronting though.

Unfortunately, an accusation without any evidence is the definition of a baseless accusation. But this isn't RnF and again, not the topic being addressed in this thread.

arsenalpow
12-11-2015, 12:05 AM
Unfortunately, an accusation without any evidence is the definition of a baseless accusation. But this isn't RnF and again, not the topic being addressed in this thread.
Oh?

Why do you not want to agree?
Don't ask if you don't want the answer.

Pan
12-11-2015, 06:25 AM
The ringwar may indeed be winnable. But so far the server is 0-fer on it. Winnable and tuned properly are two different things. Don't conflate them.

There's an easy answer to this: Fix the fucking Dain bug.

Fix the fucking ring war.

Don't exploit broken stuff.

The ring war is a jewel in the crown of velious. A really, really neat event that should have been completed many, many times in more than 4 months of velious. We're all better players, better geared, and better mechanically than we were on live. And we were doing it 4 months in with ~40 people on Druzzil.

It's broken. Fix it. But don't try to game what's broken for loot.

(if the staff is unable or unwilling to fix the Dain bug, it should be an easy thing to DT the should-not-have-been-spawned Dain...)

Pan
12-11-2015, 06:36 AM
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2029155&postcount=31

This thread: let's come up with a player-made agreement to exploit a bug.

Detoxx
12-11-2015, 12:03 PM
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2029155&postcount=31

This thread: let's come up with a player-made agreement to exploit a bug.

This threads goal was to stop disasters from happening every time someone tried a ring war. Thats all. BDA, Forsaken, Rampage, Taken, Asgard are all guilty of going for an "exploited" Dain and when that happens, its a mess.

If the staff has no interest in fixing it, which is what i've seen so far, and the players are coming so close to winning it, why should we not continue to try? Yes, it may be un-winnable, but it also is not 100% impossible. Its not like anyone attempting these ring wars is turning in and letting it fail. They are giving their best shots and the last few attempts have been closer than ever.

Pan
12-11-2015, 12:13 PM
Again, the answer is simple: don't exploit a bug. Irrespective of what the staff does or does not do.

arsenalpow
12-11-2015, 12:26 PM
Just for the sake of argument, let's assume this doesn't get resolved anytime soon (for whatever reason) and we collectively decide to just sanction this crap, you're going to be left with a broken Thurgadin for hours at a time, every single day. That's not good for the rest of the server. Thurg is effectively the main hub for Velious and it will be overrun by giants constantly.

Additionally, staff can't be there everytime to save someone when mobs fall under the world. You bring a raid force, there's some ridiculous glitch, and then you lose. If you want to exploit this loophole fine, but don't create these absurd rules to determine a legit attempt from a fake attempt, it's all the same. It's being done to spawn a Dain. The result is guaranteed from the start regardless of how many people you bring. Just embrace that fact wholesale now.

Llandris
12-11-2015, 02:20 PM
There's a fix pending*

Pint
12-11-2015, 02:52 PM
If the staff dont want us attempting ring wars then they can post. Until then its crazy for our guilds to limit ourselves simply bc other guilds can't complete something.

bktroost
12-11-2015, 04:27 PM
Can someone explain to me what content they are being denied by not having their tenth ring until the next patch goes into place? Is it some Viagra-like effect gained from saying we were the server's first to win the ring war?

If it's broken, then it's not to be done. If I was a gm and I KNEW that Dain shouldn't pop after a ring war and that a ring war was being done, I would go into Icewell and DT the mob.

#1 There is no reason to do the ring war other than gather data for a fix and that means having a gm present.
#2 If a GM is present then there is no reason for him not to kill Dain so a bug is not exploited (it has already been identified by a Dev to be a bug)
#3 Now that we have a fix pending patch there is absolutely no reason to do a ring war until that fix goes into place.

Am I missing some other piece of information?

Pan
12-11-2015, 05:28 PM
The only point of this thread was to get guilds to agree to exploit broken content - specifically Dain.

I don't have an issue with anyone taking a swing at a broken or improperly tuned ring war as often as the possibility recycles. More power to you if you can figure out a way to beat that third wave.

I do have an issue with the staff doing nothing about guilds exploiting content that was acknowledged to be broken since the end of August (post-fail Dain).

I do have an issue with people agreeing to divvy up the fruits of content that shouldn't exist but only does due to a bug. Especially if I'm asked to buy in and buy off on that exploit. To virtually sign a contract agreeing to cheat.

I'd love to be able to take a swing at unlimited Dains in our high-population wheelhouse. But we don't consider it (nor do we consider buying in and off on this agreement) because it's clearly an exploit.

That said, if you're the kind of person who subscribes to the notions that:
If you're not cheating, you're not trying
It's not cheating if you don't get caught
It's not cheating even if you get caught but don't get punished

I can respect that on some level. That's who you are. That's how you approach life and the game.

Just to bring the lack of enforcement to the fore, I'd almost encourage you to spawn and kill serial Dains. As many and as often as you can.

And in parallel, I encourage the staff to rewrite the server and raid rules to more reflect reality. Here are some examples:
1. If you didn't fraps it, it didn't happen.
2. Q11: What about training away trash mobs?
A: This is acceptable, but if you choose to use this tactic, you must keep in mind that you are responsible for your trains/mobs. Meaning if your trainer dies, and the mobs go wipe another guild, that’s still training. BUT ONLY IF YOU GET CAUGHT. Otherwise you're clearly responsible for nothing.
3. Feel free to openly admit to exploiting broken content (see the precedent on Dain as a guide) without consequence.

And so on.

As it stands around here, those raiders who choose not to exploit/cheat/train/grief as a matter of course are at a significant disadvantage to those who do. And it would make for a lot more level playing field if the server rules actually reflected what the staff was interested in enforcing - whatever that is.

But until that happens, I see no reason to being drawn into a jackpot to agree to exploit broken content (post-ring Dains).

And until that or a fix happens, I see no reason why those whose only impetus to follow the rules of the server is to avoid punishment should not spawn and kill Dain at every opportunity. There's clearly no consequences historically.

We won't be signing the agreement. But we won't be in the way if you want to divvy up exploited content, either.

Detoxx
12-11-2015, 07:39 PM
The only point of this thread was to get guilds to agree to exploit broken content - specifically Dain.

I don't have an issue with anyone taking a swing at a broken or improperly tuned ring war as often as the possibility recycles. More power to you if you can figure out a way to beat that third wave.

I do have an issue with the staff doing nothing about guilds exploiting content that was acknowledged to be broken since the end of August (post-fail Dain).

I do have an issue with people agreeing to divvy up the fruits of content that shouldn't exist but only does due to a bug. Especially if I'm asked to buy in and buy off on that exploit. To virtually sign a contract agreeing to cheat.

I'd love to be able to take a swing at unlimited Dains in our high-population wheelhouse. But we don't consider it (nor do we consider buying in and off on this agreement) because it's clearly an exploit.

That said, if you're the kind of person who subscribes to the notions that:
If you're not cheating, you're not trying
It's not cheating if you don't get caught
It's not cheating even if you get caught but don't get punished

I can respect that on some level. That's who you are. That's how you approach life and the game.

Just to bring the lack of enforcement to the fore, I'd almost encourage you to spawn and kill serial Dains. As many and as often as you can.

And in parallel, I encourage the staff to rewrite the server and raid rules to more reflect reality. Here are some examples:
1. If you didn't fraps it, it didn't happen.
2. Q11: What about training away trash mobs?
A: This is acceptable, but if you choose to use this tactic, you must keep in mind that you are responsible for your trains/mobs. Meaning if your trainer dies, and the mobs go wipe another guild, that’s still training. BUT ONLY IF YOU GET CAUGHT. Otherwise you're clearly responsible for nothing.
3. Feel free to openly admit to exploiting broken content (see the precedent on Dain as a guide) without consequence.

And so on.

As it stands around here, those raiders who choose not to exploit/cheat/train/grief as a matter of course are at a significant disadvantage to those who do. And it would make for a lot more level playing field if the server rules actually reflected what the staff was interested in enforcing - whatever that is.

But until that happens, I see no reason to being drawn into a jackpot to agree to exploit broken content (post-ring Dains).

And until that or a fix happens, I see no reason why those whose only impetus to follow the rules of the server is to avoid punishment should not spawn and kill Dain at every opportunity. There's clearly no consequences historically.

We won't be signing the agreement. But we won't be in the way if you want to divvy up exploited content, either.

Jesus its just a game man, relax. Paralleling it with assumptions on how I live my personal life with a wall of text is uncalled for. That being said, what exactly do we do with the Dain when it spawns after a fail? Never kill it? Its obvious that won't happen so, I reiterate, this thread was made to avoid the disaster that would be every Dain after a ring war fail.

All that has to happen is for a GM to say "Hey, we don't want you killing the Dain after a failed attempt, we will be death touching any further Dains that spawn after a failed attempt."

I don't see that anywhere, do you?

Pint
12-11-2015, 07:55 PM
you guys are incredible, if you cant complete the ring war then this thread isnt even for you. some of us can complete the ring war and we arnt going to deny ourselves a challenge simply bc the rest of you have deemed something to be "too hard" or "unwinnable". what is that outrageously long and irrelevant diatribe about getting caught cheating even doing in this thread, nobody is cheating and nobody is doing anything that isnt public knowledge, unbelievable. y'all go high horse somewhere else on the internet.

Pan
12-11-2015, 07:55 PM
@Detoxx: It's a bug according to Haynar.

Do you need to be told not to exploit each bug individually?

Is that seriously what you're basing your argument on?

@Pint: Nobody's completed it successfully yet (so am I to assume that this thread isn't for you?). I'm not averse to people trying. This thread is about the buggy Dain that happens after a failed attempt. Winnability of the war is rather irrelevant in that even if it were perfectly tuned, buggy Dains would still be at issue.

Pint
12-11-2015, 08:02 PM
this thread is about what to do with no varianced dain's spawning after a failed ring war because in the past 200+ people show up and create havoc that is unnecessary. if the staff want us to leave them up to be DT'd then that would require require a 4 word post. If they dont care either way then neither should any of you. velious isnt going anywhere, the server has hit its ending point for content, the number of dain heads on the server is completely nonconsequential, it literally means nothing.

Detoxx
12-11-2015, 08:03 PM
It's a bug according to Haynar.

Do you need to be told not to exploit each bug individually?

Is that seriously what you're basing your argument on?

Are you aware that the Dain that spawns after a fail is the new timer on Dain? So I ask again, if a GM doesnt DT the new one, what exactly is supposed to happen? Leave Dain up forever?

Instead of playing the "holier than thou" card and tossing around accusations of cheating and exploiting, why dont you think of a solution? You've already stated that trying the Ring War isnt the issue, so what do we do with the Dain that spawns if we fail?

Also, according to your rationale, anyone who takes a TL box is exploiting.

Pan
12-11-2015, 08:27 PM
Are you aware that the Dain that spawns after a fail is the new timer on Dain? So I ask again, if a GM doesnt DT the new one, what exactly is supposed to happen? Leave Dain up forever?

Instead of playing the "holier than thou" card and tossing around accusations of cheating and exploiting, why dont you think of a solution? You've already stated that trying the Ring War isnt the issue, so what do we do with the Dain that spawns if we fail?

Exploit it or don't.

It's pretty simple. We're guests here. By logging in, we tacitly agree to keep the server rules. One of those rules is not to exploit buggy shit. If Dain is buggy and we're keeping our end of the deal, we leave Dain up. At that point, it becomes the Staff's problem and they make an amendment one way or another (which, by the way, I called for).

As it stands, it's not yours to kill because it's buggy any more that it would be your call, if you were a guest in my house, to determine that you had the right to drink all of my beer (without invitation) because it was nearing the best by date. Or because someone else might drink it.

So you didn't answer my question: do you need to be told not to exploit every exploitable bug?

To answer yours: you're a guest here. Follow the house rules. If one of them is not to exploit bugs, don't do it. Leave Dain up if it's a buggy Dain. That's their problem to solve, not yours.

I understand the situation and it's admittedly a tough one. Especially absent intervention. I really don't care what Forsaken chooses to do. But couching it in the terms that everyone is gonna exploit a buggy Dain so let's figure out how to cooperate in the exploitation is pretty bankrupt given the rules that we all agree to follow when we log in.

This really shouldn't be our problem. And guilds shouldn't be put in the position to need to figure out how to solve it - or what to do about it themselves. It's a 3+ month bug that hasn't been fixed yet (nor has any punishment been meted out for clearly violating house rules...so why bother keeping them?) - and given the nature of the sever and human nature, I do understand that the situation is pretty untenable.

Pint
12-11-2015, 08:41 PM
the grand standing is real itt

bktroost
12-13-2015, 02:40 AM
To answer yours: you're a guest here. Follow the house rules. If one of them is not to exploit bugs, don't do it. Leave Dain up if it's a buggy Dain. That's their problem to solve, not yours.


I don't understand why we feel it's our job to solve the GMs problems. It's a really silly problem.

#1)We want them to fix buggy stuff and so we ask them to.
#2)We take matters into our own hands rather than letting GMs handle it by player made agreements that usually involve breaking server rules.
#3)GMs know they are at fault so they don't punish players for breaking server rules.
#4)Because players are killing Dain there is no game breaking urgency by him being left up, therefore, no real problem in the coding.
#5) No problem=no solution.


I'm happy coming up with all the player made agreements that are needed to make this a saner happier world, heck, if you all know me at all you know I'm 100% for them! But they can't include any party knowingly breaking server rules.


All it takes is a GM to say either "yes, Dain is allowed to be killed after a failed ring war even though we know it is an exploitation." or "We will be killing Dain after each war, do not attempt to engage him." until this bug is fixed.

One line of text from a GMs mouth solves all of this.

Detoxx
12-26-2015, 06:16 PM
Ringwar compete. Amazing feat considering it was "un-winnable"! Grats Ramptakeguard!

arsenalpow
12-26-2015, 06:33 PM
Ringwar compete. Amazing feat considering it was "un-winnable"! Grats Ramptakeguard!

It only took 130+ people with Rampage being super decked out from pillaging NToV and ST for months on end. That should be evidence enough that it isn't classically tuned.

Erati
12-26-2015, 07:02 PM
How many 10th rings were even completed before Luclin n AAs tho

characters got much stronger quickly

-Catherin-
12-26-2015, 07:19 PM
Did Trampage actually exceed 100 combined? i know we started the event around low 80s. Additional people outside our two guilds were mostly just picking off one shots for faction.

Was a combination of a good group of people that has already shown they work well together, and some pretty decent spawn positions on the giants. it only got a little crazy at the very end when we had a spawn all the way to the east followed by another all the way to the west and then one right up the middle. But was handled beautifully.

-Catherin-
12-26-2015, 07:22 PM
Not sure of the time accuracy, stole it from another thread. And its a zonewide, not just Trampage.

[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Virtuoso] Skribs (Half Elf) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [ANONYMOUS] Axiam <Azure Guard>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [47 Shadow Knight] Grahf (Ogre)
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [ANONYMOUS] Pubo <Europa>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [ANONYMOUS] Dreft <Europa>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [52 Wanderer] Wootles (Wood Elf) <Europa>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [ANONYMOUS] Droppad <Taken>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Sorcerer] Farsight (Gnome) <Taken>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Warlock] Slowpoy (Human) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [ANONYMOUS] Sinko <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [ANONYMOUS] Sowgirl <Fires of Heaven>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [54 Mystic] Scrack (Barbarian) <Clue>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [ANONYMOUS] Tuddy
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [ANONYMOUS] Toobit <Taken>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Grandmaster] Ataka (Iksar) <Taken>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [ANONYMOUS] Ubortion <Taken> LFG
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [ANONYMOUS] Xatum <Europa>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [55 Master] Slapt (Human)
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [53 Wanderer] Smallpawx (Wolf) <Taken>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [56 Luminary] Suntrader (Barbarian) <Ill Tempered Sea Bass>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Sorcerer] Varzii (Dark Elf) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [ANONYMOUS] Zatsum <Taken>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [48 Warrior] Spare (Ogre)
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Grandmaster] Southpaws (Iksar) <Rampage> LFG
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Warder] Leod (Wood Elf) <Taken>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Warlock] Mannymoejack (Skeleton) <Taken>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [ANONYMOUS] Nibblewitz <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Assassin] Grumpy (Dwarf) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [ANONYMOUS] Woms
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Warder] Eliena (Human) <Europa>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Warlord] Trilok (Iksar) <Azure Guard>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [49 Magician] Saltwater (Dark Elf) <Azure Guard>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Sorcerer] Astro (Erudite) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 High Priest] Sudlarvn (Gnome) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [ANONYMOUS] Tacotunes <Azure Guard>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [53 Channeler] Noldun (Dark Elf) <Azure Guard>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Sorcerer] Toverland (Gnome) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Oracle] Pyrocat (Dark Elf) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [51 Rake] Penee (Wood Elf) <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [59 Blackguard] Katierakel (Wood Elf) <Forsaken>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Grandmaster] Yaolin (Human) <Azure Guard>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 High Priest] Lenu (Dwarf) <Azure Guard>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [ANONYMOUS] Pimpeck <Azure Guard> LFG
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 High Priest] Halliel (High Elf) <Taken>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Assassin] Kinglance (Barbarian) <Taken>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Phantasmist] Ciixual (Erudite) <Taken>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [59 Defiler] Eyermtd (Skeleton) <Taken>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Warlord] Gorruk (Ogre) <Taken>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Oracle] Jonasty (Troll) <Taken>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Assassin] Fuge (Dwarf) <Taken>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Hierophant] Indefinite (Wood Elf) <Taken>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Grandmaster] Maori (Iksar) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [57 Troubadour] Maestroni (Human)
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Phantasmist] Naldiane (High Elf) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Phantasmist] Hyjal (Dark Elf) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Assassin] Prollapse (Dwarf) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Warder] Skydash (Wood Elf) <Taken>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 High Priest] Kimanna (High Elf) <Azure Guard>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Crusader] Thadew (Human) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [ANONYMOUS] Nerakim <Europa>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Grandmaster] Enthusiast (Human) <Azure Guard>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Phantasmist] Dwyn (High Elf) <Europa>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Warlord] Meefus (Ogre) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [ANONYMOUS] Durzoblint <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Sorcerer] Bluemagic (Dark Elf) <Taken>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Warlord] Naethyn (Human) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 High Priest] Faumieni (High Elf) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Grandmaster] Henrique (Iksar) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Oracle] Tardars (Barbarian) <Azure Guard>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Arch Mage] Breaken (Human) <Taken>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Grandmaster] Nolos (Iksar) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Grandmaster] Diamondfist (Iksar) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [56 Preserver] Jobbe (Wood Elf)
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Grandmaster] Rainbowcop (Human) <Clue>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Grandmaster] Padilla (Human) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Arch Mage] Sweeni (Dark Elf) <Taken>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Oracle] Eroqa (Skeleton) <Taken>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Virtuoso] Downstairs (Gnome) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [ANONYMOUS] Moonwood <Azure Guard>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Warlock] Phiren (Skeleton) <Azure Guard>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [58 Templar] Bellossom (Gnome) <Azure Guard>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Hierophant] Briscoe (Human) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Assassin] Snackon (Human) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Grandmaster] Violint (Iksar) <Bone Diddlies>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Assassin] Froogle (Halfling) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Grandmaster] Hokushin (Human) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Assassin] Koraf (Dwarf) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Sorcerer] Sojutsu (Dark Elf) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Warlock] Isham (Erudite) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Warlord] Aldred (Troll) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Assassin] Azeth (Barbarian) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Assassin] Enorm (Skeleton) <Rampage> LFG
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [56 Luminary] Ghostfacez (Iksar) <Azure Guard>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Grandmaster] Kautin (Dark Elf) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Sorcerer] Atmas (High Elf) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [ANONYMOUS] Jhar
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Hierophant] Kenilu (Wood Elf) <Taken>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Warlord] Lassmiranda (Skeleton) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 High Priest] Xerra (High Elf) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Assassin] Izaic (Barbarian) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [55 Revenant] Tsuko (Dark Elf) <Azure Guard>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] [60 Assassin] Figher (Dark Elf) <Rampage>
[Sat Dec 26 12:53:33 2015] There are 101 players in Great Divide.

arsenalpow
12-26-2015, 07:26 PM
Ahh, someone was texting me that it was around 130 to get the job done. It's good to see that it's "beatable" but I don't think it's classically tuned.

-Catherin-
12-26-2015, 07:32 PM
Ahh, someone was texting me that it was around 130 to get the job done. It's good to see that it's "beatable" but I don't think it's classically tuned.

Probably not, but considering all the other things that are harder than they should be classically, i doubt the powers that be really care, or intend to make many changes for that matter. With all of the knowledge we have and time spent in Kunark it's probably more of a classic experience to keep things more difficult anyways.

Detoxx
02-12-2016, 10:35 PM
This agreement is no longer in effect being that Rampage no longer exists as well as Taken.

bktroost
02-12-2016, 10:46 PM
This agreement was never in effect being that it was never in effect. People did failed ring wars on wave 1 twice a day this month, weeks in a row.

Detoxx
02-13-2016, 03:43 PM
This agreement was never in effect being that it was never in effect. People did failed ring wars on wave 1 twice a day this month, weeks in a row.

True. Need a new thread made to come to an agreement between all guilds.

Pan
02-15-2016, 07:41 PM
Need the staff to take care of business re expectations on a bugged mob.

Until they do, making an agreement to cheat (exploiting a known bug) in a way that's more convenient is really pretty bankrupt. (Ignore this and proceed below if I've missed something here re staff statements.)

------------------

But I don't really blame anyone for taking this approach. Not picking on you, Detoxx or anyone trying to get stuff figured out. It's part of a larger problem. We have some pretty robust raid rules here. But they're not always followed and much less often enforced. And it seems the enforcement is either wildly inconsistent or purely whimsical - not to mention not very timely.

Further, the notion of "Fraps or it didn't happen" is pretty absurd in its own right when you're talking consistent enforcement or deterrence - which, not so coincidentally, seem to be the drivers for having rules at all.

In brief (and I'm not known for that), if the rules that we're asked to follow are not enforced consistently, swiftly, and with some real teeth (heavy enough to deter), there's no point in having raid rules or server rules at all.

That's on the gods (small g) of the server. Not speaking for Omni or CSG here but someone who has been around a while:

Staff, figure out what kind of support you can give to the raid scene. Write rules that you're able to enforce given that level of support. Be consistent. And quick. And harsh enough to get the outcomes you want. And communicate those outcomes up front. If you want chaos and drama, tell us straight up. If you want something smoother, figure out rules and enforcement mechanisms that are both consistent and commensurate with your staffing abilities.

bktroost
03-13-2016, 12:28 PM
.

Daldaen
04-16-2016, 10:49 PM
Bump.

If you fail a Ring War, you should not be allowed to contest the resulting bugged Dain. I think this should be a fairly common sense/agreeable solution to the present situation.

There should be no incentives for failing a Ring War, or worse, purposefully exploiting and failing a Ring War. Every guild that has attempted or won a ring war has failed one in the past month. This should impact and be fair to everyone evenly.

Sirken said he would be ruling on this before the summit but I don't think I heard anything ever come of it.

bktroost
04-17-2016, 10:30 AM
If Sirken made that rule I'd sign off and enter the fray.