I forgot how mudflated live eq was

[Troxx]

For kicks and grins I logged into one of my dormant live accounts - level 100 bard buffed out at 110k hp, regening 2500hp a tick just with gear, aa, songs, and aura.

Slaughtered all of WW, ntov, wtov, and halls of testing in about 15-20 minutes without a mercenary. I'd have solo'd AoW as well but he wasn't up.




God bless p99.

The game really was better in the classic era. Luclin and PoP weren't terrible, but Velious was where the game was close to its best. Many would argue that PoP was the final climax before a slow steady decline.

[maestrom]

PoP certainly had some mudflation issues, but PoP is still my favorite content in EQ. Sooooooooo much raid content.

[rayeatts]

This mirrors the exact same way I feel about WoW. The 2nd expansion, wrath of the lich king, was the peak for me.

Strange how an ice-covered 2nd expansion was the peak for both games.

At some point you need to stop adding new levels above 60, 70, 80, or whatever. Level 100 is just too much.

Both games pretty much became terrible when it got to a point where you would decide you wanted to roll a new character only to discover that there is literally nobody else to group with.

What would actually make the entire game(s) better is if they were always adding new starting zones, new leveling zones, new leveling dungeons, instead of always adding more end game content.

They forget that people want a game that has replay value. They mistakenly think that nobody wants to level a toon again.

Well that's true if they have to level it in the same exact place as the last 10 toons!

Bottom line for me is, I'd like to see the whole game expanded. Not just a new end game put on top of the other end game.

[Jimjam]

LOL, AoW still being poopsocked a decade and a half later, perhaps? :D

I remember maybe two years ago on live farming Trakanon on my warrior for fun... The biggest challenge was pulling him close enough to his banish room that he would insta-summon me back into combat after banishment so I could actually fight him. IIRC the doors to the Juggernaut room was where I would fight.

Worst mudflation imo was Kunark.

[kaleep]

to kill trak easily, get a tank merc, get the tank to attack, trak won't banish the merc so in a minute you loot the corpse, kinda cheesy with too many levels.

[Swish]

to kill trak easily, get a tank merc, get the tank to attack, trak won't banish the merc so in a minute you loot the corpse, kinda cheesy with too many levels.

That's disgusting :(

http://i.imgur.com/spBZKhz.gif

[Speedi]

Of course your going to destroy 14 year old content with a nearly maxed toon. You can AFK in ToV on a toon like that and you won't ever die. And yes I know the current max lvl on live is 105.

As far as raiding current content on live it's a bit more complex. One person failing an AT can kill half, or all your raid in seconds. Versus here every encounter on p99 is gear based, and basically tank and spank. No AT's you gotta watch out for, or worrying bout the people next to you blowing you up :)

I will say that overall p99 is more difficult, mainly because of CR's and the difficulty pulling a target when you only got seconds to react. Praise good monks!

But you are right about live, it is watered down, filled with macro quest users, boxers, other hacks and most importantly zero social atmosphere. I stopped playing there myself August 2014 and started here. P99 so much better! :)

[maestrom]

AT?

[Danth]

I haven't played Live in many years. I can't comment on it directly. I can say this: Most stat improvement is little more than an illusion. The stats that actually matter, such as kill rate, tank lifespan, and such things tend to stay the same. Hitting a 1000 hit point monster for 20 is effectively the same as hitting a 100000 hit point monster for 2000. You might feel stronger because you can go back and wreck obsolete content that used to be tough....but it's still no different than going back when you're level 60 and wrecking Black Burrow.

I don't know of any of the Everquest-style online games that have figured out how to control stat inflation. Players expect upgrades with expansions so it isn't an easy problem to solve. As I understand, the problem got so bad in Warcraft that Blizzard actually had to go in and lop off some zeros off everything. Whoever eventually figures out a good solution to the inflation issue might be seen as one of the genre's next big innovators.

Danth

[Swish]

I haven't played Live in many years. I can't comment on it directly. I can say this: Most stat improvement is little more than an illusion. The stats that actually matter, such as kill rate, tank lifespan, and such things tend to stay the same. Hitting a 1000 hit point monster for 20 is effectively the same as hitting a 100000 hit point monster for 2000. You might feel stronger because you can go back and wreck obsolete content that used to be tough....but it's still no different than going back when you're level 60 and wrecking Black Burrow.

I don't know of any of the Everquest-style online games that have figured out how to control stat inflation. Players expect upgrades with expansions so it isn't an easy problem to solve. As I understand, the problem got so bad in Warcraft that Blizzard actually had to go in and lop off some zeros off everything. Whoever eventually figures out a good solution to the inflation issue might be seen as one of the genre's next big innovators.

Danth

That's a good point, see Diablo 3 for new levels of ridiculous levels of generated numbers which mean nothing lol. Hitting a mob for 17 million when it has 450 million health etc.

[wormed]

Strange how an ice-covered 2nd expansion was the peak for both games.

You forgot "imo." I think WoW began to suck within TBC and EQ was great until PoP.

[Swish]

PvP was worse as a result of TBC... arenas sucked compared to battlegrounds. Taking the titles and ranks out was a bad idea too.

Perhaps the worst was spending months grinding for items and a nice weapon only to see every player who never pvp'd in their life using them just before TBC launched. I earnt my shit, my rank, etc and they just gave it all away to everyone else.

Incentive not to play to the same extent etc.

[jcr4990]

WoW was good classic/BC. Wotlk started to suck. EQ was good through PoP and arguably Omens of War (Citadel of Anguish still one of the best raid zones in EQ history imo) and Proving Grounds/Riftseekers were amazing group zones. Some really good memories there pals. But after that it started to blow for sure.

[Colgate]

i thought WoW was great in TBC until the activision merger, shortly afterward they began adding things like daily quests, tons of badge of justice purchasable items that were better than entry level raid gear, removing and/or dumbing down attunement for raid dungeons, etc.

vanilla had its charm for certain things like the pvp honor system, but a lot of it was really, really poorly designed and i think TBC is when they finally started to figure it all out

[Thulack]

AT?

Audio Trigger. Most people use programs that gives you a audio alert or big writing on screen because there are mechanics of events that require you to respond within seconds of text being flashed on the screen in a chat box. I agree with Speedi i preferred raiding on Live(as of 2 years ago when i quit) 100x over to the simplicity that is raiding in this era of EQ. Dead weight doesnt really happen on live when it comes to raiding.

[Evia]

You forgot "imo." I think WoW began to suck within TBC and EQ was great until PoP.

Eq began to die when Luclin was released. It took its last breath when pop came out.

(Imo)

[rayeatts]

You forgot "imo." I think WoW began to suck within TBC and EQ was great until PoP.


Yeah, of course people have varying opinions on this. However I think that I share the opinion that a majority of players have. IMO of course.

[titanshub]

This mirrors the exact same way I feel about WoW. The 2nd expansion, wrath of the lich king, was the peak for me.

Strange how an ice-covered 2nd expansion was the peak for both games.

At some point you need to stop adding new levels above 60, 70, 80, or whatever. Level 100 is just too much.

Both games pretty much became terrible when it got to a point where you would decide you wanted to roll a new character only to discover that there is literally nobody else to group with.

What would actually make the entire game(s) better is if they were always adding new starting zones, new leveling zones, new leveling dungeons, instead of always adding more end game content.

They forget that people want a game that has replay value. They mistakenly think that nobody wants to level a toon again.

Well that's true if they have to level it in the same exact place as the last 10 toons!

Bottom line for me is, I'd like to see the whole game expanded. Not just a new end game put on top of the other end game.

I quit playing in WoTLK but I don't remember harly ever grouping with anyone except doing 5 man instances with the grp finder. Now it was my first MMO since EQ so I did grind my Warlock up to 60 killing mobs and not questing. I learned later that was the hard way but at the time I thought "this is so much easier than EQ". Lol

[jarshale]

Check this shit out.
http://zam.zamimg.com/images/0/3/03881d0dcf6cf32f88a0d38032f2d24a.jpg

It's crazy.

[Daldaen]

That's a bad weapon, not level 105, and not a raid weapon :/.

[SCB]

I can go to Crushbone right now on my enchanter and afk with a pet out and it'll clear all of the hardest content in the zone.

That's literally the kind of shit you're complaining about here.

[Jimjam]

I don't think that weapon is so ridiculous.

If at lvl 50 vanilla you use a short sword of ykesha for a proc aggro weapon and at level 60 you use the red epic, that suggests for each 10 levels DMG should increase by a factor of two thirds.

If that is a weapon for a level 100: 8*1.67^5=103DMG ... seems to more of less follow the trend set by Kunark.

Mind you, I have often said Kunark messed up itemisation in Everquest, so yea.

[fastboy21]

I don't think that weapon is so ridiculous.

If at lvl 50 vanilla you use a short sword of ykesha for a proc aggro weapon and at level 60 you use the red epic, that suggests for each 10 levels DMG should increase by a factor of two thirds.

If that is a weapon for a level 100: 8*1.67^5=103DMG ... seems to more of less follow the trend set by Kunark.

Mind you, I have often said Kunark messed up itemisation in Everquest, so yea.

Exactly. That's the problem. In modern EQ that weapon is not ridiculous. Its just the so-called "mudflation". Have an expansion: Increase stats on gear/weps + Make encounters relative to gear increase in difficulty.

The result is that after several expansions you 1) make segments of your own game insignificant. the more you add expansions in this manner the more of your own game you sunset. 2) the arithmetic gets out of control. instead of dealing with small sensible numbers you are dealing with HUGE unwieldy stats (can you imagine being the dev that has to actually argue whether or not the item should +2875 HP vs. 2800 HP ???).

Yes, you have the same effect over the natural curve of leveling. Lvl 10 zones are useless for a lvl 60 character. (I can zone into crushbone and slaughter the whole zone easily on a lvl 60 toon). The difference is the consistency of the world is not challenged by this nearly as much as after a few mudflation expacs.

Also, vanilla EQ did a good job of making sure that there usually good reasons why a high level player would actually need to return to lower level zones---holding the world together.

Modern EQ has not only failed to solve the problems of mudflation, they have actively embraced as a part of their game. The player base that has remained on live EQ doesn't mind it. They even enjoy it from my conversations on live. New expansion, can't wait to get a new set of armor with slightly higher stats, etc.

[Solonus]

Modern EQ has not only failed to solve the problems of mudflation, they have actively embraced as a part of their game. The player base that has remained on live EQ doesn't mind it. They even enjoy it from my conversations on live. New expansion, can't wait to get a new set of armor with slightly higher stats, etc.

To be fair, you just described every MMO expansion ever. That's always the case with any game with any new expansion; new items with a slight increase in stats from the previous expansion, and the active player base tends to be excited about obtaining a minimal upgrade because that's the carrot on a stick to keep playing the game. That's the whole point.

Sure, EQ's has gotten to the point where the stats are getting out of hand, but that's expected in a 15 year old game. It's no different than any other game expansion, just bigger numbers.

[rayeatts]

To be fair, you just described every MMO expansion ever. That's always the case with any game with any new expansion; new items with a slight increase in stats from the previous expansion, and the active player base tends to be excited about obtaining a minimal upgrade because that's the carrot on a stick to keep playing the game. That's the whole point.

Sure, EQ's has gotten to the point where the stats are getting out of hand, but that's expected in a 15 year old game. It's no different than any other game expansion, just bigger numbers.

This is why they need to expand the game horizontally, not just vertically.

New content should include new leveling zones, new leveling dungeons, with incentives to use them.

Then the new leveling content would require more players to roll new toons if they wanted to experience the new low level content. That would breathe new life into the low zones constantly, providing an enjoyable experience for new players, thus preventing the game from evolving into something for veterans only.

[Thulack]

This is why they need to expand the game horizontally, not just vertically.

New content should include new leveling zones, new leveling dungeons, with incentives to use them.

Then the new leveling content would require more players to roll new toons if they wanted to experience the new low level content. That would breathe new life into the low zones constantly, providing an enjoyable experience for new players, thus preventing the game from evolving into something for veterans only.

Not everyone enjoys alts or having to restart to experience "new content" People dont want to go horizontally. They want a reason to keep playing and advancing their characters.

[rayeatts]

Not everyone enjoys alts or having to restart to experience "new content" People dont want to go horizontally. They want a reason to keep playing and advancing their characters.

Yeah, I'm saying that many mmorpgs should expand horizontally, not just vertically. There should still be vertical expansion too.

[Solonus]

This is why they need to expand the game horizontally, not just vertically.

New content should include new leveling zones, new leveling dungeons, with incentives to use them.

Then the new leveling content would require more players to roll new toons if they wanted to experience the new low level content. That would breathe new life into the low zones constantly, providing an enjoyable experience for new players, thus preventing the game from evolving into something for veterans only.

True. And this is one area where i'd say EQ out did even current MMOs. When Kunark and Velious came out, they added a whole new set of leveling zones to compliment the already existing ones in the old world. (I can't speak on current EQ expansions, but I know the expansion that had the Drakkin race had some new lower level zones to exp in.) Yes, said leveling zones in Kunark/Velious were of a higher difficulty/mobs had higher hp/dps, but that was due to McQuaid being butthurt over his content being cleared too quickly.

That's something we don't even really see in current MMOs. Every WoW expansion is simply new content for going from the previous level cap to the next. Same thing for FFXIV, and almost every other MMO out there.

[rayeatts]

honestly, the very idea of "expanding" a game is that it will result in a different game than the one that people originally fell in love with. The conclusion I'm drawing now is that they simply should not release too many expansions at all. Maybe one or 2.

But the game should be much closer to a finished product when it is originally released. But then the question becomes, "What is a finished product?"

Because right not live has like 20+ expansions and it's still not finished. So I guess that idea is not possible then.

Back to the drawing board.

[JurisDictum]

I haven't played Live in many years. I can't comment on it directly. I can say this: Most stat improvement is little more than an illusion. The stats that actually matter, such as kill rate, tank lifespan, and such things tend to stay the same. Hitting a 1000 hit point monster for 20 is effectively the same as hitting a 100000 hit point monster for 2000. You might feel stronger because you can go back and wreck obsolete content that used to be tough....but it's still no different than going back when you're level 60 and wrecking Black Burrow.

I don't know of any of the Everquest-style online games that have figured out how to control stat inflation. Players expect upgrades with expansions so it isn't an easy problem to solve. As I understand, the problem got so bad in Warcraft that Blizzard actually had to go in and lop off some zeros off everything. Whoever eventually figures out a good solution to the inflation issue might be seen as one of the genre's next big innovators.

Danth

As I'm sure we all know, EQ revamped a lot of zones that were becoming obsolete/dated in Velious -- like Fear, Chardok, and Droga. The problem is -- they never really wanted to put too much effort into revamping old content. It was a big deal when CT dropped the new Velious-grade items....fear mattered again. A lot of times they had a habit of introducing content that is interesting/useful, but not on par with current expansion. And it was a small minority of zones that were revamped or updated. This results in zone death and makes it difficult for new players to climb to the current content.

Now stat inflation may be an unsolvable problem. MMOs need new progression for expansions. But that doesn't mean that it ever should have gotten like it was when I tried to roll a war on live PoP. Lets just say -- I barely got 65 and quit when I realized I couldn't tank any good exp zones. They could have continued to scale the old content for newer players.

[Swish]

keyboard tourettes is a thing

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Probably a game theorist could calculate how long a mmo, following the usual gear vs encounter progressions, can last before it turns into "looking for ways to milk some more out of this gameworld" mode. I thought Luclin and Pop were fine content (encounter) wise, but the AA system (gear) was weak and clearly was nerfing the game.

It is like a vicious cycle. People want new content, which means new challenges. But they also want char progression, which means more power. Add those two vectors together, you get a spiral of silly encounter mechanics and op'd chars.

mmo game design and players need to make a choice. Do we want new challenges, or new powers?

Luclin and Pop w/o aa's and lvl increases would have been awesome. Probably unbeatable. Therefore unprofitable. But I'd play it.

A note to the p99 devs.....

[Xaanka]

i thought WoW was great in TBC until the activision merger, shortly afterward they began adding things like daily quests, tons of badge of justice purchasable items that were better than entry level raid gear, removing and/or dumbing down attunement for raid dungeons, etc.

vanilla had its charm for certain things like the pvp honor system, but a lot of it was really, really poorly designed and i think TBC is when they finally started to figure it all out

never really liked the whole "give anyone with a pulse epics that are 90% as good as end game raid gear" thing either. the 10 man raids were cool tho. wotlk was just too easy, by the time that came out i had every class except shaman full bis or maybe a trinket off from full bis and it was just too easy. ulduar was cool when it first came out, but they were already nerfing it day 1 because people were whining that it was too hard to get a 25 man raid to pass a ~5k dps gear check fight in naxx loot (lol) and it soon became another snoozefest.

[rayeatts]

In my opinion, the worst thing a game creator can do is make the game too easy. If there's no challenge, there's no sense of accomplishment and it's not fun to play.

The second worse thing they can do is introduce real money purchases into the game. This is a no brainer bc all sense of accomplishment goes straight out the window.


I think "maintaining a strong sense of accomplishment" should be a primary goal of any new mmorpg coming out.

[Swish]

^ agree, but they're all at it...gotta keep those profit margins up.

[rayeatts]

^ agree, but they're all at it...gotta keep those profit margins up.

Thank god p99 has no profit margins.

[B4EQWASCOOL]

never really liked the whole "give anyone with a pulse epics that are 90% as good as end game raid gear" thing either. the 10 man raids were cool tho. wotlk was just too easy, by the time that came out i had every class except shaman full bis or maybe a trinket off from full bis and it was just too easy. ulduar was cool when it first came out, but they were already nerfing it day 1 because people were whining that it was too hard to get a 25 man raid to pass a ~5k dps gear check fight in naxx loot (lol) and it soon became another snoozefest.

Burning crusade heroics were sooooo fun and hard. Good xpac, imo.

[Xaanka]

one of the most challenging moments i've had in any mmo was xfering one of my characters to the lowest pop pvp server at the time in wow & forming a pick up group to kill kael'thas. on a server where he had only been killed once, by a guild who xfered on and had left long ago. everybody in that raid hated each other and nobody on that entire server thought it could be done. there were some really good players hidden on there because the server was empty + on a good battlegroup, but that was about it at the time. no real pve progress on the whole server. they did it on the 2nd attempt after i booted some noob hunter who sent his pet in on astromancer.

[Izmael]

SOE made the mistake of upgrading gear too quickly with new expansions, starting with Kunark (epics).

Instead of making end-of-expansion gear like 200% or 300% better than the end-of-previous-expansion gear, they should have made it maybe 10% or 20% better.

People would still play because we are all EQ crackheads.

Velious and the insane NToV loot is where it started getting completely out of hand.

But there's hope. P99 leaders said they might make custom content (not on red/blue, supposedly on a new server), and hopefully that new custom content/expansion would address these mudflation issues, by making obtainable gear only marginally better than what is obtainable now.

Everyone would still eagerly play the new content I'm sure.

[Jimjam]

True. And this is one area where i'd say EQ out did even current MMOs. When Kunark and Velious came out, they added a whole new set of leveling zones to compliment the already existing ones in the old world. (I can't speak on current EQ expansions, but I know the expansion that had the Drakkin race had some new lower level zones to exp in.) Yes, said leveling zones in Kunark/Velious were of a higher difficulty/mobs had higher hp/dps, but that was due to McQuaid being butthurt over his content being cleared too quickly.

That's something we don't even really see in current MMOs. Every WoW expansion is simply new content for going from the previous level cap to the next. Same thing for FFXIV, and almost every other MMO out there.

I rerolled in eq live about 5 years ago with another old EQer friend. We both started Drakkin and followed the level progression in that expansion. Obviously it wasn't the EQ we had known, but it was still really fun, loads of quests, lots of different theme zones and content. Interestingly, using level appropriate gear, we dominated content with our double wizards! Was rather fun AOEing huge swarms of bixies down :p.

Really the Drakkin expansion and up could have almost been released as a separate sequel to EQ instead.


One thing EQ did experiment with, that somewhat mitigated mudflation, is having areas that focused on different equipment sets. Perhaps one expansion has mobs with low AC so you don't need as much attack to do damage, or even more specific perhaps itemisation for an expansion could include a lot of 'Bane [creature] DMG' or even 'Bane [creature] AC' items, which are useful for that expansion, but of diminished use in other expansions where the [creature] isn't so common.

This allows people to keep playing a character, progress it for that expansion, but also means much of the power gained in that expansion won't follow through to other areas of the game.

[fadetree]

I haven't played Live in many years. I can't comment on it directly. I can say this: Most stat improvement is little more than an illusion. The stats that actually matter, such as kill rate, tank lifespan, and such things tend to stay the same. Hitting a 1000 hit point monster for 20 is effectively the same as hitting a 100000 hit point monster for 2000. You might feel stronger because you can go back and wreck obsolete content that used to be tough....but it's still no different than going back when you're level 60 and wrecking Black Burrow.

I don't know of any of the Everquest-style online games that have figured out how to control stat inflation. Players expect upgrades with expansions so it isn't an easy problem to solve. As I understand, the problem got so bad in Warcraft that Blizzard actually had to go in and lop off some zeros off everything. Whoever eventually figures out a good solution to the inflation issue might be seen as one of the genre's next big innovators.

Danth

Implement player aging. Your character starts at a fit 20 years old, and then ages according to a mix of factors, including level, time played, and actual real world time since creation. The amount of time you've got played and the level you are at control the aging rate, and to a lesser extent the real world age does as well. Once you get to 60 years or so, your abilities start to decline. When you hit 100 you can't do jack except whittle and make fun of youngsters.

OR

lose the whole idea of levels. Nobody keeps getting more HP every level. Implement tons of skill based progressions, but they are capped. Expansions are really just expansions of the playable world, and don't have anything to do with 'hardness' of content. Implement weapon and armor breakage. Make death REALLY hurt, as in you lose some character attributes or skill levels if you die too much in too short a time. If you die every now and then, plus arrange for the highest possible level res, then you won't take much damage. But if you die over and over you'll quickly have a worthless character. Of course, no one would play except nutjobs who like their games to be tough, but...we're there already :)

[Swish]

That's a great idea for a new MMORPG... like wasn't there something in one of the old Phantasy Star games which had generations of characters if you played it long enough?

Also reminds me of career mode on Fight Night (boxing game)... you become the champ, take on all comers but you start to age and get fragile :o

[rayeatts]

Implement player aging. Your character starts at a fit 20 years old, and then ages according to a mix of factors, including level, time played, and actual real world time since creation. The amount of time you've got played and the level you are at control the aging rate, and to a lesser extent the real world age does as well. Once you get to 60 years or so, your abilities start to decline. When you hit 100 you can't do jack except whittle and make fun of youngsters.

OR

lose the whole idea of levels. Nobody keeps getting more HP every level. Implement tons of skill based progressions, but they are capped. Expansions are really just expansions of the playable world, and don't have anything to do with 'hardness' of content. Implement weapon and armor breakage. Make death REALLY hurt, as in you lose some character attributes or skill levels if you die too much in too short a time. If you die every now and then, plus arrange for the highest possible level res, then you won't take much damage. But if you die over and over you'll quickly have a worthless character. Of course, no one would play except nutjobs who like their games to be tough, but...we're there already :)

Yes! Death should have big ramifications, but not so big that it pushes frustrated players out of the game. Weapons and armor should have a durability stat on them that simulates how much they've been used.

Once a piece of armor has been used by multiple characters, bought and sold numerous times, it's durability stat should be lower like for example 32 out of 100. At a rating like that it should have a % chance of totally breaking, even during combat, causing you to die.

Then players would value armor that was very durable and pay more for it. Then it would give people more opportunities to keep acquiring new armors which people would probably enjoy.

[NizmerThafen]

The Solution: An In-Game Tax.

You are required to pay tribute (tax) to your diety in the form of gear or money, pay a city tax when entering, pay a banking tax to make deposits where a % is taken regularly, and if you keep "too much" money on yourself you will be mugged by the tax officials who patrol the area. Also, if you accumulate too much In-Game wealth you have to give your best gear to the nearest Tribute-Master(s) where it will be redistributed to the lower level players after the TM takes their cut. If you don't you will be de-leveled, imprisoned, or killed (randomly).

NO one should be able to accumulate too much In-Game wealth. No one should be able to level so high. We need to even the playing field. This would solve Mudflation problems.

[Jimjam]

That is a cool idea Nizmer!

Imagine if the more wealthy you are the more likely you are to be targeted by random muggings (or, if you become super draconic in your wealth, perhaps kings will start hiring bands of adventurers to raid your stashes and so on).

[jolanar]

All of the worst expansions in EQ are when they didn't raise the level cap (excluding Velious because the game was different back in Classic/Kunark and things like raid zones weren't even a thing yet.) I don't think that's a coincidence. Mudflation is inevitable.

[anonymous666]

The Solution: An In-Game Tax.

You are required to pay tribute (tax) to your diety in the form of gear or money, pay a city tax when entering, pay a banking tax to make deposits where a % is taken regularly, and if you keep "too much" money on yourself you will be mugged by the tax officials who patrol the area. Also, if you accumulate too much In-Game wealth you have to give your best gear to the nearest Tribute-Master(s) where it will be redistributed to the lower level players after the TM takes their cut. If you don't you will be de-leveled, imprisoned, or killed (randomly).

NO one should be able to accumulate too much In-Game wealth. No one should be able to level so high. We need to even the playing field. This would solve Mudflation problems.

[Tulidian]

How about instead of having expansions simply add to the current world, they instead change the old world? Let Kelethin be overrun by Dark Elves and Orcs for an expansion and then have the Wood Elves retake it in another. Let Mistmoore be cleansed and turned into a new starting city for another race. Let Firiona Vie sink into the ocean after an epic battle, creating a new underwater zone controller by ghouls.

Adjust starting zones, mid level zones and raid content throughout the life of the game. Create new weapons and equipment that can only be acquired until that zone changes again as the lore dictates. Make the world dynamic. Make it feel like its a living, breathing entity.

[guinness]

How about instead of having expansions simply add to the current world, they instead change the old world? Let Kelethin be overrun by Dark Elves and Orcs for an expansion and then have the Wood Elves retake it in another. Let Mistmoore be cleansed and turned into a new starting city for another race. Let Firiona Vie sink into the ocean after an epic battle, creating a new underwater zone controller by ghouls.

Adjust starting zones, mid level zones and raid content throughout the life of the game. Create new weapons and equipment that can only be acquired until that zone changes again as the lore dictates. Make the world dynamic. Make it feel like its a living, breathing entity.

But that's so much effort! Let's just up the level cap another 5 levels and create a couple half-assed zones with the same monsters and items we've seen before but buffed 20%. We can make and ship that by the end of Q4.

[Skydash]

Oh, I love these ideas.

Item tax: use inns to log out, and charge a rent to store equipment. If you log out, after an hour(whatever time) you automatically return to last inn you stayed at, and charged a premium.

Item degradation: items should deteriorate and become completely broken. But repairable to some extent for awhile.

Skill based: instead of levels, use EXP to gain skills. EXP should be spendable on skills/hp.

[fadetree]

Oh, I love these ideas.

Item tax: use inns to log out, and charge a rent to store equipment. If you log out, after an hour(whatever time) you automatically return to last inn you stayed at, and charged a premium.

Item degradation: items should deteriorate and become completely broken. But repairable to some extent for awhile.

Skill based: instead of levels, use EXP to gain skills. EXP should be spendable on skills/hp.

Yeah the repairable thing opens up the possibility for a bunch of new skills.

[JurisDictum]

We came to this server to play EQ...not some custom MMORPG maker. Not a big fan of the custom content idea vs just releasing Luclin/PoP.

Games are hard to make. We should just play the one that was made, not expect a couple of guys to do something better.

[shimonuh]

In WoW, your hit points (in full season 8 to season 9 pvp gear) went from 25k to 120k in the transition of the second expansion to the third.

Also, homogenization kills these games

[Thiefboy777]

We came to this server to play EQ...not some custom MMORPG maker. Not a big fan of the custom content idea vs just releasing Luclin/PoP.

Games are hard to make. We should just play the one that was made, not expect a couple of guys to do something better.

Can we add Berserkers?

[Izmael]

Can we add Berserkers?

No thanks.

EQ reached its highest point of quality with Velious and started to decline with Luclin.

That's pretty much what 80% of people state (although many admit PoP was good - I think it was good but way too mudflated, again).

As the GMs stated previously, they want P99 to be a museum-quality snapshot of classic EQ up to and including Velious, like it was in 2001, nothing more.

I'm more than happy with that.

[jolanar]

No thanks.

EQ reached its highest point of quality with Velious and started to decline with Luclin.

That's pretty much what 80% of people state

Anyone can make up statistics. Go to the polls on this very forum and you'll see way more than 20% would want to go up to PoP and stop.

[Izmael]

Jesus, you're right.

I stand corrected.

Still glad P99 ends at Velious =)

[khandman]

I always thought SWG was great that it didn't have the level grind, pre combat patch days. At the time it was ashame more MMO's don't adopt the same type of skill system.