Monk Main Hand / Off Hand Question

[anfield]

Hi, guys, just wanted to pick your brains. I have a Jade Mace in main hand and Knuckle Duster in Off, is that correct, or should it be reversed?

I'm new to the server and having a blast. Just got Pugwash to 11 and trying to scrape the funds together for the ac/hp rings.

Anyway, any advice would be greatly appreciated.


Andy

[Kender]

yes JM in prime is best. SoS is a better off hand option than KD and pretty cheap. however since you are new, you probabl;y need a haste item more. FBSS would be your best option since the hand wraps will eventually get replaced with epic

[Daldaen]

That is correct.

You want your lowest delay weapon in your primary hand.
You want your high ratio weapon in your offhand.

The reason you want fastest weapon in primary is two fold.

1. You swing your Primary every round. The secondary swing checks your dual wield skill. Which isn't a 100% check rate even at max skill (it's high, around 70-80% I think on a monk?)
2. Damage Bonus is applied to only your primary weapon. Starting at level 28 you gain 1 bonus damage to your primary hand, adding an additional 1 DMG every 3 levels:

28 - 1
31 - 2
34 - 3
37 - 4
40 - 5
43 - 6
46 - 7
49 - 8
52 - 9
55 - 10
58 - 11

This means if you have two weapons at level 60, a 9/18 (Jade Mace) and 14/28 (Knuckle Duster)

JM Primary - 20/18 - 1.11 Ratio
KD Secondary - 14/28 - 0.5 Ratio

KD Primary - 25/28 - 0.89 Ratio
JM Secondary - 9/18 - 0.5 Ratio

Clearly the top option is better. Because the faster weapon will have the primary hand damage bonus applied far more frequently.

As someone else mentioned, Haste is a big goal for a grouping DPS class. I'd save for that if I were a leveling rogue, warrior or monk.

[jolanar]

The only reason the jade mace is better at lower levels is the damage caps, otherwise they have the same ratio.

[anfield]

Thanks, guys, I really appreciate the help.

[Troxx]

Until the dmg bonus kicks in, ratio is all that matters. The higher the delay the fewer ripostes you eat if tanking.

For most of your life and levels, just look at ratio. From the mid 40s on, the balance shifts in favor of faster weapons.

As a monk, you're better off investing your money on a good 2hander.

Wu staff --> peacebringer

After level 30 the imbued fighters staff (better damage, less ripostes and dmg shield intake, and lighter) takes the cake for dps until either epic/SoS or TStaff.

[jolanar]

Until the dmg bonus kicks in, ratio is all that matters. The higher the delay the fewer ripostes you eat if tanking.

For most of your life and levels, just look at ratio. From the mid 40s on, the balance shifts in favor of faster weapons.

As a monk, you're better off investing your money on a good 2hander.

Wu staff --> peacebringer

After level 30 the imbued fighters staff (better damage, less ripostes and dmg shield intake, and lighter) takes the cake for dps until either epic/SoS or TStaff.

Do low level mobs even riposte? Agree that 2h is the way to go at least from 20 until 40s.

[Colgate]

That is correct.

You want your lowest delay weapon in your primary hand.
You want your high ratio weapon in your offhand.

The reason you want fastest weapon in primary is two fold.

1. You swing your Primary every round. The secondary swing checks your dual wield skill. Which isn't a 100% check rate even at max skill (it's high, around 70-80% I think on a monk?)
2. Damage Bonus is applied to only your primary weapon. Starting at level 28 you gain 1 bonus damage to your primary hand, adding an additional 1 DMG every 3 levels:

28 - 1
31 - 2
34 - 3
37 - 4
40 - 5
43 - 6
46 - 7
49 - 8
52 - 9
55 - 10
58 - 11

This means if you have two weapons at level 60, a 9/18 (Jade Mace) and 14/28 (Knuckle Duster)

JM Primary - 20/18 - 1.11 Ratio
KD Secondary - 14/28 - 0.5 Ratio

KD Primary - 25/28 - 0.89 Ratio
JM Secondary - 9/18 - 0.5 Ratio

Clearly the top option is better. Because the faster weapon will have the primary hand damage bonus applied far more frequently.

As someone else mentioned, Haste is a big goal for a grouping DPS class. I'd save for that if I were a leveling rogue, warrior or monk.

damage bonus is added to the final result, not to the damage of the weapon itself

this is why critical hits don't match the actual damage dealt; the message is delivered before the damage bonus is added at the end

[maskedmelon]

Hi, guys, just wanted to pick your brains. I have a Jade Mace in main hand and Knuckle Duster in Off, is that correct, or should it be reversed?

I'm new to the server and having a blast. Just got Pugwash to 11 and trying to scrape the funds together for the ac/hp rings.

Anyway, any advice would be greatly appreciated.


Andy

Due to damage caps, until L10 the mace is vastly superior. From 10-19, both are about equal, however any bonus str will favor the mace due to the damage cap of 28. From 20-27, damage cap has loosened up enough that it would be wise to swap the Knuckle Duster to mainhand for fewer ripostes, less damage from DPS and better aggro management. At 28 the introduction of the primary hand damage bonus renders the mace better for mainhand for the rest of your leveling career.

Summary:

L1-19 - mace in primary hand for best dps
L20-27 - knuckle in primary hand for lower dmg in (DPS is same)
L28+ - mace in primary hand for best dps

[anfield]

Thanks for the tips, Maskedmelon, most appreciated : )


Andy

[Ronnie328]

Due to damage caps, until L10 the mace is vastly superior. From 10-19, both are about equal, however any bonus str will favor the mace due to the damage cap of 28. From 20-27, damage cap has loosened up enough that it would be wise to swap the Knuckle Duster to mainhand for fewer ripostes, less damage from DPS and better aggro management. At 28 the introduction of the primary hand damage bonus renders the mace better for mainhand for the rest of your leveling career.

Summary:

L1-19 - mace in primary hand for best dps
L20-27 - knuckle in primary hand for lower dmg in (DPS is same)
L28+ - mace in primary hand for best dps

The damage cap applies to the weapon damage. Most toons will see a max hit of 28, but get yourself a good high strength ogre and you'll hit harder than 28.

[Atada]

Summary:

L1-19 - mace in primary hand for best dps
L20-27 - knuckle in primary hand for lower dmg in (DPS is same)
L28+ - mace in primary hand for best dps

There is also the ability to double attack after a successful dual wield. This starts at skill level of 150. Not sure if we have that high of a skill in lvs 20-27 but if so I'd still use JM for more double attack firing chances.

[Jimjam]

I don't understand the previous post.

[Atada]

I was getting theoretical. I'd say parse them to find out for certain.

[maskedmelon]

Dual wield checks occur whenever offhand delay is recycled. It is unrated to primary hand delay. That is the reason why sometimes you will see a combat round that seems to be offhand only. Double attack for offhand works the same way ^^

[Jimjam]

Dual wield checks occur whenever offhand delay is recycled. It is unrated to primary hand delay. That is the reason why sometimes you will see a combat round that seems to be offhand only. Double attack for offhand works the same way ^^

This post makes more sense. Thanks, whoever was that Masked Melon!

[Atada]

I'm talking about double attack firing off of a successful dual wield. It starts at 150 skill.

[Man0warr]

Which is one of the reasons why dual wielding sucks until higher level. That and damage bonus being non-existent or weak.

[maskedmelon]

I'm talking about double attack firing off of a successful dual wield. It starts at 150 skill.

I know, but it has nothing to do with primary hand delay (I thought you were suggesting to use JM in primary hand instead of KD for more offhand dbl atks, unless in misunderstood ^^)

If you were saying you would use the JM mainhand to get more frequent dbl atks on your mainhand that makes sense if you want to see more frequent atks, but since the base dps is not better, you'd just be eating more Dmg shield/riposte while building hate more quickly ^^ In other words if x !> y, then 2x is still !> 2y ^^

[maestrom]

That is correct.

You want your lowest delay weapon in your primary hand.
You want your high ratio weapon in your offhand.

The reason you want fastest weapon in primary is two fold.

1. You swing your Primary every round. The secondary swing checks your dual wield skill. Which isn't a 100% check rate even at max skill (it's high, around 70-80% I think on a monk?)
2. Damage Bonus is applied to only your primary weapon. Starting at level 28 you gain 1 bonus damage to your primary hand, adding an additional 1 DMG every 3 levels:

28 - 1
31 - 2
34 - 3
37 - 4
40 - 5
43 - 6
46 - 7
49 - 8
52 - 9
55 - 10
58 - 11

This means if you have two weapons at level 60, a 9/18 (Jade Mace) and 14/28 (Knuckle Duster)

JM Primary - 20/18 - 1.11 Ratio
KD Secondary - 14/28 - 0.5 Ratio

KD Primary - 25/28 - 0.89 Ratio
JM Secondary - 9/18 - 0.5 Ratio

Clearly the top option is better. Because the faster weapon will have the primary hand damage bonus applied far more frequently.

As someone else mentioned, Haste is a big goal for a grouping DPS class. I'd save for that if I were a leveling rogue, warrior or monk.

Are you sure?

I have always been under the impression that the damage calculation was a combination of your damage bonus + variable damage.

Variable damage is calculated based on several factors including your weapon damage, target AC, and your dice to come up with a number between 1 and X, where X is the maximum variable damage from the weapon.

So say I have a damage bonus of 5 and two weapons that gives variable damage between 1 and 20. My MH will hit between DB + VD = 5 + (1 to 20) = 6 to 25. This is why MH weapon hits will never hit for less than Damage Bonus + 1.

The same weapon in my off hand will hit only from 1 to 20.

[Daldaen]

I was pretty sure when I posted, however I may be wrong!

The beginning of what I said was correct. Fast weapon primary, good ratio in secondary. Also the reasoning behind is correct.

What I may be wrong on is the calculation. What you and others said sounds more correct now that I'm revisiting it. The bonus probably isn't a flat addition to the base damage value of the weapon.