Ninja looting

[MasterCaster]

Are there rules against Ninja looting or is it more of a name and shame people for awareness? lol:confused::confused:

[JboxCSU]

Both

[Colgate]

ninja looting is allowed if you're in level range to the people who killed the NPC

aka if it can be solved by PvP, GMs typically don't care

[JboxCSU]

I probably need some clarity-

Scenario 1:
Group A kills a mob and Group B kills Group A and steals the loot = Good.
Scenario 2:
A group consisting of people in pvp range kills a mob, a person in the group kills the group steals the item and runs away = Good
Scenario 3:
A group consisting of people in level range of one another kills a mob, a person in that group steals the item and bolts without killing anyone = ???

[Cherry23]

Scene 3 is awful, not sure if you can ban someone ? Unless proof that random rolls show the ninja looter stealing ?

[Jazzy]

You forgot scenario 4

in range to pvp but no pvp happens and somebody simply loots, regardless in group together or sworn enemies

[Cherry23]

Who is the dirtbag ninja looter ?

I had someone ninja loot my Chardock pipe once so they could sell the mq after we invited them for Xp, we camped it for 5 hours and they just showed up... ��

[Jazzy]

Red as fuck

[Jjlent]

I think I know what scenario u are referring to and it was, group leveling kills mob, person in group loots item, group members roll on said item, person who looted item rolls and loses, person who looted /q's as to not hand over item

[Llandris]

Scenario 3:
A group consisting of people in level range of one another kills a mob, a person in that group steals the item and bolts without killing anyone = ???

That, my elf pal, is ninja looting.

Scenario time. PUG in KC. T-staff drops, everyone rolls. Someone without the winning roll loots and /q's. Ninja looting. Logs are your friend

[Cherry23]

They can be banned I assume ? Play nice policy fail ?
Like we all go LD from Time to Time but what are the odds of a LD after losing a roll and on a tstaff and being the original looter ? 1 in a Gajillion ?

At least never play with that person again

[JboxCSU]

That, my elf pal, is ninja looting.

Scenario time. PUG in KC. T-staff drops, everyone rolls. Someone without the winning roll loots and /q's. Ninja looting. Logs are your friend

Thought so. My butthole puckered when I read ninja looting was allowed.

[AzzarTheGod]

That, my elf pal, is ninja looting.

Scenario time. PUG in KC. T-staff drops, everyone rolls. Someone without the winning roll loots and /q's. Ninja looting. Logs are your friend

What about this..

Raid force Guild A kills VS.

Known KOS member of Guild B in PvP range sneaks in and loots the VS legs after a short period of time, while using skill to evade detection with jukes and timing.

Past staff rulings have indicated this is legal if its in PvP range?

[AzzarTheGod]

Thought so. My butthole puckered when I read ninja looting was allowed.

Some "ninja looting" has been ruled legal in the past afaik.

Each staff member has their own interpretations, so you do this at your own risk.

Sirken himself stated in regards to ALL SERVER RULES that he will enforce the spirit of the rules, not the letter of the rules as he sees fit.

I am guessing this is why some ninjas have been given de-facto amnesty and cleared as legal. If one guide bans you, petition appeal to another GM for final ruling if it seems there's been rulings in your favor in the past.

PvP range ninjas have been legal and given amnesty, but again, this is at your own risk. Ninja is very gray area and its all about the staff answering the petition in my experience. My friend took an FBSS from Chewie and FoH/Red Dawn while in Lguk camp together, and was given amnesty due to his story and being in PvP range.

[MasterCaster]

My scenario is grp of ppl all in range kill mob it drops a no drop item only usable by 2 ppl in grp 1 being me and the other person loots corpse instantly and takes item then disbands grp and when questioned says sorry, we going somewhere else now our porter here.

[Colgate]

That, my elf pal, is ninja looting.

Scenario time. PUG in KC. T-staff drops, everyone rolls. Someone without the winning roll loots and /q's. Ninja looting. Logs are your friend

shrug, sirken's always said to us "if pvp can solve it, i don't care"

aka if the person is in range to pvp, they can loot w/e; it's your fault for not killing them to prevent it

[AzzarTheGod]

aka if the person is in range to pvp, they can loot w/e; it's your fault for not killing them to prevent it

As long as they are known KOS and hostile (aka not in group/with the raid) its cleared as legal and not technically ninja looting, but some type of piracy.

Ninjaing from inside groups is often ruled as illegal, due to the fact you were not KOS/hostile when you ninja'd it. But with a good story/reason, as in the Chewie ninja example, the staff may blame the group leader for trusting another guild and allowing him into the group.

Very hit and miss. The only precedent is raid ninja is legal as long as you are known hostile and KOS with PvP range.

[MasterCaster]

My main concern is the person being in the group having a determining factor or not. If the person was out of group for mob death and in range to group members but can't loot for like 3-4 mins then I would agree its the groups fault from not preventing it. However if you are in group with someone then you probably aren't looking to kill that person over loot you banded together for to even make possible. I just want to make sense or she more light on the finer details of ninja looting.

[Llandris]

shrug, sirken's always said to us "if pvp can solve it, i don't care"

aka if the person is in range to pvp, they can loot w/e; it's your fault for not killing them to prevent it

In my scenario, there's no way to prevent it. Pvp can't solve the issue. Like others have stated, each case is reviewed differently, depending on the circumstances.

[Kergan]

Always make sure to say the group loot rules in group chat when a new player joins the group so it is in the logs. At that point by staying in the group you are consenting to said rules and violating them is a PNP violation. Also make sure you have at least 1 player of the group out of PVP range of someone so PVP can't possibly happen and solve that particular rules issue.

[Jeni]

Praise Llandris, this one was big in ooc this morning glad it was looked into.

[JboxCSU]

Praise Llandris, this one was big in ooc this morning glad it was looked into.

F'in A Cotton.

F'in AAAAAAA

[Colgate]

In my scenario, there's no way to prevent it. Pvp can't solve the issue. Like others have stated, each case is reviewed differently, depending on the circumstances.

right, i agree completely

that's just the stance i've most commonly seen from sirken

the last time i inquired about a potential ninja loot at a raid within guild a few months ago (basically same scenario you're describing), his response was "manage your guild better" and then moved the petition to resolved

[Jjlent]

I understand why he would say that about a guild getting a mob ninja looted by a guild member, this scenario seems a bit different since it was a pick up group. In your scenario you have a position of power over the ninja looted being their guildleader, in a pick up group no one is in authority

[Colgate]

it's the same concept in both scenarios where pvp can't prevent it from happening

what you can do afterward is irrelevant, be it kicking them from the group or kicking them from the guild

[krazyGlue]

who ninja looted what ? at the raid?

[Colgate]

someone claimed to be selling a ring of lightning a month into velious, so i asked for encounter logs for the 4 or 5 king tormax kills to see if anyone had looted one without saying anything or didn't give it to the person who was awarded it

he refused and moved it to resolved and told me to manage the guild better

in any case, his stance before has been "if pvp can solve it, GMs don't care"

which also doesn't really make sense, considering training is against the rules

[Jjlent]

True what you do afterwards doesn't matter, but sirken's response could be different towards ur petition because u have a position of power over said ninja looter. Sirken's response to u was like; ur friend stole from u, choose ur friends more wisely. Sirken's response to this scenario *could* be like; u were robbed by a random person after he knew he lost a random but didn't want to give up item, I will take that item and give to whoever won roll

I have no idea what his response will be and wasn't in group, just saw the ooc aftermath and know someone present at the event. I haven't played on p99 for 3 years until past few month so not sure what sort of precedence has been set, just an outsiders perspective

[hammbone]

someone claimed to be selling a ring of lightning a month into velious, so i asked for encounter logs for the 4 or 5 king tormax kills to see if anyone had looted one without saying anything or didn't give it to the person who was awarded it

he refused and moved it to resolved and told me to manage the guild better

in any case, his stance before has been "if pvp can solve it, GMs don't care"

which also doesn't really make sense, considering training is against the rules

Totally get where you're coming from, you're making great points, but you're asking a GM to spend time researching server logs for you? Thought for training you had to provide proof, e.g. FRAPS.

Also, I'd like to think at least one member of Empire, given its notable white knights, would have said something.

[Star]

someone claimed to be selling a ring of lightning a month into velious, so i asked for encounter logs for the 4 or 5 king tormax kills to see if anyone had looted one without saying anything or didn't give it to the person who was awarded it

he refused and moved it to resolved and told me to manage the guild better

in any case, his stance before has been "if pvp can solve it, GMs don't care"

which also doesn't really make sense, considering training is against the rules

Just threw up in my mouth reading that.

[Colgate]

Totally get where you're coming from, you're making great points, but you're asking a GM to spend time researching server logs for you? Thought for training you had to provide proof, e.g. FRAPS.

Also, I'd like to think at least one member of Empire, given its notable white knights, would have said something.

as far as i'm aware, it doesn't take very long to retrieve encounter logs

i remember multiple instances of asking for encounter logs and eunomia providing them within a couple of minutes back in kunark

it's also possible for a single melee to get exp on a raid mob depending on how other groups are formed, which melees die during the fight, etc.

it was mostly a precaution, but ultimately the rulings regarding ninja looting tend to support the idea that they don't give a shit unless the person who ninja loots is out of pvp level range

[MasterCaster]

as far as i'm aware, it doesn't take very long to retrieve encounter logs

i remember multiple instances of asking for encounter logs and eunomia providing them within a couple of minutes back in kunark

it's also possible for a single melee to get exp on a raid mob depending on how other groups are formed, which melees die during the fight, etc.

it was mostly a precaution, but ultimately the rulings regarding ninja looting tend to support the idea that they don't give a shit unless the person who ninja loots is out of pvp level range


Eunomia Best Guide to ever exist hands down! :cool:

[MasterCaster]

So ninja looting rules are discretional is what I am gathering from all this.

[miraclegrow2]

it isn't the gms job to monitor your raid loot, asking that is hilarious.

Ninja looting is very illegal if you do it expect to have the items taken and your account getting a timeout.

Regardless of what trolls type here

[Colgate]

it isn't the gms job to monitor your raid loot, asking that is hilarious.

Ninja looting is very illegal if you do it expect to have the items taken and your account getting a timeout.

Regardless of what trolls type here

so ninja looting is bad but perfectly acceptable in a raid scenario, and asking a GM to look into it isn't their job?

[Brojob]

I won the Tstaff on my bard that was ninja'd this morning. Had it returned to me a couple hours ago.

Thanks P99 staff for helping to get this resolved quickly. Glad no one had to get banned over this and I got the item that RNGesus rightfully bestowed upon me.

-Cyran <TMO>

[Trelk]

There is no justice unless there is blood

[Trelk]

That, my elf pal, is ninja looting.

Scenario time. PUG in KC. T-staff drops, everyone rolls. Someone without the winning roll loots and /q's. Ninja looting. Logs are your friend

What if they ninja the item as the mob dies and bolts? I'm glad you mentioned a tstaff

[AzzarTheGod]

i asked for encounter logs to see if anyone had looted one without saying anything or didn't give it to the person who was awarded it


Won't drop any names. But this wouldn't be a new thing.

On one occasion, a high ranking member cleared a corpse and didn't attempt to distribute the item to the person Gongshow awarded it to until directly questioned about it. Sure its possible he forgot, but hes a serious beard.

Thought it was pretty unprofessional.


Also, I'd like to think at least one member of Empire, given its notable white knights, would have said something.

Sheer amount of raid hours and raid targets, people get fatigued or apathetic and "accidentally" stuff can disappear every so often.

White knights can't catch it because the person may be authorized to "clear the corpse", or simply clears it on his own accord passively without any groupmates and conveniently won't pay attention to the award called out.

There's definitely some grabby hands too that may be scheming on mini-bosses and not surprised about the RoL who knows how much these grabbers get away with now that I think about it. Probably a few more than just the two examples here, but without Sirken's cooperation it is what it is.

[Kergan]

In Nihilum I'd loot shit I'd forget about all the time. One time Azrael rushed us during a CT attempt and I had like a bag, puppet strings and a slime blood that sat in my bags for like 2 months. I still think I have like an 8 charge puppet strings.

[hammbone]

So ninja looting rules are discretional is what I am gathering from all this.

all rules seem discretionary

[hammbone]

I won the Tstaff on my bard that was ninja'd this morning. Had it returned to me a couple hours ago.

Thanks P99 staff for helping to get this resolved quickly. Glad no one had to get banned over this and I got the item that RNGesus rightfully bestowed upon me.

-Cyran <TMO>

wtf - this saddens me

[Llandris]

all rules seem discretionary

Have you ever actually read the rules?

[watbab]

On live you could get banned for interfering with an epic quest. When I first started playing I ninja'd that rogue epic piece in SF without even thinking and got a suspension.