OoA timers

[Pan]

3 OoAs up.

Why no timer posted from the last noble?

From what I know, it should be popping now-ish.

[Erati]

hmmm.....

interesting, sim repop sped this up n we were snoozin it seems

[Pan]

I'm pretty damned disgusted. YDYN, we all agreed to. 3 OoAs were up yesterday and still up today.

The one that just at 6:12pm us eastern was killed by BDA - chat follows below.

Last time there were 3 up, we alerted europa BECAUSE WE KEEP THE AGREEMENTS WE MAKE - see here:
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2045653&postcount=1

BDA rolled up on our sky day - conversation is here:
[Wed Oct 07 15:56:08 2015] Cloki -> chest: you guys choosing not to honor YDYN?
[Wed Oct 07 15:56:16 2015] Chest -> Cloki: well considering we aren't there yet
[Wed Oct 07 15:56:25 2015] Cloki -> chest: 3ooas up
[Wed Oct 07 15:56:49 2015] Chest -> Cloki: well we don't have a day, so I guess we'll kill this one
[Wed Oct 07 15:57:08 2015] Chest -> Cloki: if it's 3 to start it
[Wed Oct 07 15:57:23 2015] Cloki -> chest: it's 3 to start it - and there have been 3 up for a bit
[Wed Oct 07 15:57:32 2015] Cloki -> Chest: this one is ours with the ydyn thing
[Wed Oct 07 15:57:55 2015] Chest -> Cloki: there hasn't been 3, because we're the only guild that's been killing nobles
[Wed Oct 07 15:58:02 2015] Chest -> Cloki: so then its just recently been 3
[Wed Oct 07 15:58:14 2015] Cloki -> Chest: 3 this am - think yesteray, toop
[Wed Oct 07 15:58:24 2015] Chest -> Cloki: then it became 3 when we killed it yesterday
[Wed Oct 07 15:58:28 2015] Cloki -> chest: Xak is pretty anal about this
[Wed Oct 07 15:58:50 2015] Cloki -> chest: xak says 3 were up yesterday
[Wed Oct 07 15:58:57 2015] Chest -> Cloki: either way, we're already up here, we don't have a skyday, so we're going to kill this noble, there's at least 4 other days in the week where people aren't using sky, fill in the blanks
[Wed Oct 07 15:59:34 2015] Cloki -> chest: so you're fucking the agreement?
[Wed Oct 07 16:00:27 2015] Chest -> Cloki: i'm not fucking anything. I'm telling you that we weren't aware that we were at the threshhold. Since it's been YDYN BDA hasn't seen a single noble at all, and I've already ported my raidforce up as I wasn't aware that it was already past the threshold
[Wed Oct 07 16:00:51 2015] Chest -> Cloki: so we're already here, we're going to kill a noble under the YDYN crap, and then we won't kill another this week
[Wed Oct 07 16:00:51 2015] Cloki -> chest: you are aware of the threshold - and the OoAs have been up since yesterday
[Wed Oct 07 16:01:11 2015] Chest -> Cloki: i'm aware of the threshold after being informed by you just fucking now after i've already ported up 4 groups
[Wed Oct 07 16:01:19 2015] Cloki -> chest: so keep the agreement
[Wed Oct 07 16:01:23 2015] Chest -> Cloki: and since BDA doesn't have a skyday we're going to kill this noble
[Wed Oct 07 16:01:24 2015] Cloki -> Chest: and keep track of what's going on
[Wed Oct 07 16:01:42 2015] Chest -> Cloki: and then we won't kill another this week, and on any of the other dumb days of the weekwhere people aren't in sky feel free to kill a noble
[Wed Oct 07 16:01:57 2015] Cloki -> chest: we'll stick to wed - like we agreed to
[Wed Oct 07 16:02:01 2015] Chest -> Cloki: and if you think this "breaking the agreement" then we can agree to disagree
[Wed Oct 07 16:02:17 2015] Cloki -> Chest: what does that even mean - I don't agree to disagree - I disagree
[Wed Oct 07 16:02:37 2015] Cloki -> Chest: and it IS breaking the agreement - there are 3 OoAs up - and if you kill this one, you're breaking the agreement
[Wed Oct 07 16:02:40 2015] Cloki -> Chest: it's pretty simple
[Wed Oct 07 16:03:13 2015] Chest -> Cloki: so what day does bda get to kill a noble?
[Wed Oct 07 16:03:24 2015] Cloki -> Chest: on your sky day
[Wed Oct 07 16:03:28 2015] Chest -> Cloki: we don't have a sky day
[Wed Oct 07 16:03:33 2015] Chest -> Cloki: so what day is that
[Wed Oct 07 16:04:30 2015] Cloki -> chest: get one - you said there were four available?

[Pint]

tl;dr BDA

[Detoxx]

tl;dr BDA

[Erati]

sooo

what r the timers :D

[arsenalpow]

Stuff is spawning a bit after 5pm CST lately.

[Drakakade]

I thought all the guilds had agreed to leaving the OoA agreement in place starting with 3 OoA at which point YDYN kicks in for allocating Nobles? Why did BDA kill a Noble on Weds - especially after being informed by Omni of the existing agreement?

[Anichek]

I thought all the guilds had agreed to leaving the OoA agreement in place starting with 3 OoA at which point YDYN kicks in for allocating Nobles? Why did BDA kill a Noble on Weds - especially after being informed by Omni of the existing agreement?

Was Divinity going to go up and kill it?

BDA went to Sky at 11:45pm last night and kill time was 12:09.

If you're not going to kill it on your day, is there a problem with someone else doing so at the last minute?

YDYN shouldn't really be in effect if you're not going to kill it on your day.

[arsenalpow]

I thought all the guilds had agreed to leaving the OoA agreement in place starting with 3 OoA at which point YDYN kicks in for allocating Nobles? Why did BDA kill a Noble on Weds - especially after being informed by Omni of the existing agreement?

tl;dr BDA

[Drakakade]

Anichek, correct me if I am wrong, but did not Cloki have logs saying, "The one that just at 6:12pm us eastern was killed by BDA"

I am incorrect in understanding that BDA zoned up and killed a Noble - not on their Sky Day - when informed by Omni at 6:12pm?

Are you telling me that BDA also went up later in the evening and killed another Noble? At 12:01pm?

[Detoxx]

Anichek, correct me if I am wrong, but did not Cloki have logs saying, "The one that just at 6:12pm us eastern was killed by BDA"

I am incorrect in understanding that BDA zoned up and killed a Noble - not on their Sky Day - when informed by Omni at 6:12pm?

Are you telling me that BDA also went up later in the evening and killed another Noble? At 12:01pm?


tl;dr BDA

On a more serious note, Forsaken would like to get in on the Noble action. Will timers start being posted?

[Anichek]

Drakakade - I did not know that Cloki was considered the keyholder for all Noble kills and that clearance to do such needs to be approved by him.

I am 100% being clear that we killed the one last night, as the YDYN was being skipped by whomever owns Wednesdays.

If you take that as BDA being a dick, when whomever owns that day opted to NOT KILL NOBLE ON THEIR OWN ACCORD, then I guess I can't justify our actions through any means of conversation.

If you look at the reality, that nobody missed out on anything, because YDYN means that a noble spawned in a 24 hour time period belongs to whomever owns the Sky Day...and they were not killing that noble...then perhaps I am missing the point of your question.

Now, on a more serious note (and piggy-backing off of Detoxx's post) the question I have is what do we all do, together, to account for the fact that there are guilds who are not holding a Sky Day, but would like to access Nobles. It seems ludicrous that you should be required to sign up and hold a Sky slot to be able to kill a Noble. All guilds have agreed that leaving OoA's up to ensure Noble spawns is a GOOD THING - I don't think anyone is contesting that.

So how do we figure out that concern?

[Anichek]

Ensuring clarity here too:

BDA supported YDYN when the Sky calendar was full
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1882585&postcount=30

BDA acknowledged that we would no longer hold a Sky Day, due to the launch of Velious, after many guilds pushed to keep Sky Days as a thing (and only a few stated they didn't care about it being a thing anymore)
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2005760&postcount=153

A post was created about "OoA's in Velious" by Nemce, and BDA agreed to the non-aggression OoA pact, keeping 3 OoA's up to fill sky with Nobles.
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209942

BDA did NOT agree, anywhere in the most recent iteration, to YDYN, referencing the thread Cloki started once 3 OoA's were back in place
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210972

BDA is not looking to monopolize Noble spawns, but YDYN does not work for any guild that is not holding a Sky rotation day in the weekly rotation. Making a guild hold a Sky slot, when they don't want to plan routine activity in Sky (clears/raids), is a waste of a spot that a younger/up and coming guild may want to pencil themselves in for.

YDYN no longer works.

[Drakakade]

Anichek, if you would like to start another thread about the 2nd Noble (if in fact it was a second noble) or another thread about the time a guild is allotted to kill a Noble on their day, then please do so. Those are separate issues.

However, in this thread, unless I am mistaken, Omni is asserting that BDA zoned up and killed a Noble that spawned not on their Sky day, and Omni notified BDA that they were about to break the OoA agreement.

Is this true?

Did BDA kill the noble in question or did they leave it up? Do we know when that particular Noble spawned and how long it was sitting up?

[Drakakade]

Ensuring clarity here too:

BDA supported YDYN when the Sky calendar was full
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1882585&postcount=30

BDA acknowledged that we would no longer hold a Sky Day, due to the launch of Velious, after many guilds pushed to keep Sky Days as a thing (and only a few stated they didn't care about it being a thing anymore)
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2005760&postcount=153

A post was created about "OoA's in Velious" by Nemce, and BDA agreed to the non-aggression OoA pact, keeping 3 OoA's up to fill sky with Nobles.
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209942

BDA did NOT agree, anywhere in the most recent iteration, to YDYN, referencing the thread Cloki started once 3 OoA's were back in place
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210972

BDA is not looking to monopolize Noble spawns, but YDYN does not work for any guild that is not holding a Sky rotation day in the weekly rotation. Making a guild hold a Sky slot, when they don't want to plan routine activity in Sky (clears/raids), is a waste of a spot that a younger/up and coming guild may want to pencil themselves in for.

YDYN no longer works.

So, Anichek, you are asserting that there never was a YDYN agreement - only an OoA agreement? Am I correct?

YDYN no longer works, because BDA allegedly is now in violation of the YDYN agreement (provided it exists), or no longer respects they YDYN agreement or there never was one in the first place. Am I correct?

Edit: Entirely possible there is no YDYN agreement, so added that in as well.

[Anichek]

Anichek, if you would like to start another thread about the 2nd Noble (if in fact it was a second noble) or another thread about the time a guild is allotted to kill a Noble on their day, then please do so. Those are separate issues.

However, in this thread, unless I am mistaken, Omni is asserting that BDA zoned up and killed a Noble that spawned not on their Sky day, and Omni notified BDA that they were about to break the OoA agreement.

Is this true?

Did BDA kill the noble in question or did they leave it up? Do we know when that particular Noble spawned and how long it was sitting up?

Drak, you're confusing and blending two agreements/concepts, which go hand in hand but are not directly controlled in a bi-lateral manner.

Answering your questions:
OoA agreement: BDA did not break the OoA agreement, as we did not kill any Overseers.

YDYN agreement: post-Velious launch, BDA did not agree to this. BDA is posing the question on what would be the appropriate way to treat Noble spawns going forward - as not all guilds are holding Sky days.

[Anichek]

So, Anichek, you are asserting that there never was a YDYN agreement - only an OoA agreement? Am I correct?

YDYN no longer works, because BDA allegedly is now in violation of the YDYN agreement (provided it exists), or no longer respects they YDYN agreement or there never was one in the first place. Am I correct?

Do you see a spot where BDA agreed in a new YDYN conversation, post-Velious launch?


I am not privvy to the first Noble kill that BDA did (the Cloki v. Chest kill), but I was online and did approve the kill of Noble last night, and considered the YDYN situation before authorizing it.

My considerations, and eventual decision, were based upon the following arguments:
1) BDA does not participate in the Sky rotation, therefore
2) BDA does not have an assigned YDYN spawn
3) Whomever holds the Wednesday YDYN spawn was not attempting to kill noble, therefore
4) BDA zoned up and killed it as close to midnight as possible

Are there any other things I can clarify for you? I do not understand why a midnight kill on an abandoned Noble is an issue.

I am stating that the assignment of YDYN no longer should be a valid basis for distribution of Noble kills, because it does not afford all guilds the opportunity to engage Noble. Guilds should not have to schedule and occupy a reserved clear timeslot for Sky in order to agree to the OoA agreement (non-aggression on OoA's with the intent of producing Nobles for "farming") nor the YDYN agreement (you get to kill a Noble if it spawns in your assigned Sky slot).

[Drakakade]

Ok, we getting somewhere finally, Anichek. I am not confused, I am trying to figure out what exactly the grievance is here, what rule was allegedly broken, and who are the various parties involved.

I agree BDA did not violate the OoA agreement, because they did not kill an OoA.

I have yet to hear from BDA if they killed the Noble that Cloki / Omni is referring to in his post, and next, what BDA's defense is or whether they think they have broken any rules.

Anichek, is BDA saying they are not in violation, because there was no YDYN agreement? Or are you guys saying something else - such as, that mob was up for 6 hours, so we killed it?

Once we get a few questions answered we can go from there.

[Drakakade]

Anichek, you keep bringing in these other bits and pieces, which are not germane to the issue at this time.

Let me be clear: IF there was no YDYN agreement then BDA did nothing wrong, but if there was a YDYN agreement then possibly BDA did something wrong.

[Anichek]

Anichek, you keep bringing in these other bits and pieces, which are not germane to the issue at this time.

Let me be clear: IF there was no YDYN agreement then BDA did nothing wrong, but if there was a YDYN agreement then possibly BDA did something wrong.

I have stated multiple times that BDA never entered into the YDYN agreement which was discussed post-Velious launch. I linked the thread earlier in a reply as well. We could not ratify an agreement that would exclude content from us as we do not hold a Sky day, which we volunteered/forfeited upon the launch of Velious.

[bktroost]

It also appears that there are two separate noble encounters mentioned in the above Ani posts. One happening at midnight and another during Cloki's scheduled kill? One in which it was abandoned and another where the owner of a day was moving to kill their Noble.

[Pan]

Ani, this is pretty embarrassing. You should at least try to get your stories straight before posting.

Do you see a spot where BDA agreed in a new YDYN conversation, post-Velious launch?
[Wed Oct 07 15:59:34 2015] Cloki -> chest: so you're fucking the agreement?
[Wed Oct 07 16:00:27 2015] Chest -> Cloki: i'm not fucking anything. I'm telling you that we weren't aware that we were at the threshhold. Since it's been YDYN BDA hasn't seen a single noble at all, and I've already ported my raidforce up as I wasn't aware that it was already past the threshold

Chest is aware of the agreement and plays the card that he's not aware that there were 3 up as to why BDA is there. Further, he notes that BDA hasn't taken a shot at a Noble since Velious (invoking the agreement).


I am not privvy to the first Noble kill that BDA did (the Cloki v. Chest kill), but I was online and did approve the kill of Noble last night, and considered the YDYN situation before authorizing it.

And ran absolutely contrary to both the nature of the conversation that Chest and I had...as well as contradicted him directly:

[Wed Oct 07 16:00:51 2015] Chest -> Cloki: so we're already here, we're going to kill a noble under the YDYN crap, and then we won't kill another this week
[Wed Oct 07 16:01:42 2015] Chest -> Cloki: and then we won't kill another this week, and on any of the other dumb days of the weekwhere people aren't in sky feel free to kill a noble


3) Whomever holds the Wednesday YDYN spawn was not attempting to kill noble, therefore

Could well be that the timers weren't shared. Like they were in the past. Nor were guilds contacted when the thing popped. Like they were in the past.


Are there any other things I can clarify for you? I do not understand why a midnight kill on an abandoned Noble is an issue.

The midnight kill is a secondary issue. The primary is in the third post of the thread.
The midnight kill is an issue only because:

1. Chest said twice that BDA wasn't gonna kill another noble this week. Twice. So he lied to me twice, given the midnight kill.
2. BDA, contrary to the wont here, didn't share timers which becomes infinitely more important with only a 15 minute window. And BDA was the ONLY guild with timers, according to Chest. We knew there was one due on Wed (sometime after 6pm US EDT) because Xak saw an OoA pop yesterday.
[Wed Oct 07 15:57:55 2015] Chest -> Cloki: there hasn't been 3, because we're the only guild that's been killing nobles
It was entirely incumbent on BDA to post the timer, per how it's worked in the past.
3. In which timezone is 11:45-12:09? We posted times in EDT whereas Chest posted times in CST. That's something that we've never gotten straight.

I'm really astonished that this is coming from you, Ani.

That said, let's assign days to guilds that want to kill nobles.

[Drakakade]

Well, another small step forward.

First, AG (Nemce I think - put a sig in plz), I am not sure if there were 2 nobles or not - either Anichek, as guild relations officers, is unwilling to ask his guild or unable to ask his guild. Perhaps, Omni can confirm?

IF there was only 1 Noble and it sat up for 6 hours and BDA killed it at midnight, then that's a whole different kettle of fish, and I don't see any thing wrong with that.

IF there were 2 Nobles and IF Omni were moving towards killing their OoA as per the YDYN agreement which was in place under all the previous OoA agreements, well, then that's another issue.

Second, Anichek, I don't see post where BDA formally states that they opt out of a YDYN agreement - I only see a post from Chest saying, "YDYN is what I always wanted." I believe that every guild in the OoA agreement was operating under the aegis of the previous YDYN agreement that went with the previous OoA agreement.

However, if BDA thinks that YDYN no longer works (and it may not) then the nice thing to do would have to put up a post instead of creating all this drama with your arch-nemesis Omni, and wasting everyone's time trying to figure out who threw sand in whose face first.

Moreover, if you guys did kill Omni's Noble when they were mobilizing for it, then I think the right thing to do is apologize for a bad call and forfeit some a noble to Omni.

However, if said Noble sat up for 6 hours and BDA killed it then imo, there is nothing wrong with that. Any, kind of allocation agreement should have an "1 hour to engage" or it's FFA clause.

[Pan]

They killed it. Look at one of Ani's posts. He confirmed it. We also saw it die.

Furthermore, when a Noble rolls into the next day (after 15 mins in this case because the timers were not shared - which has been done in the past to avoid such things) and belongs to the next YDYN folks (in this case thursday). It's not loose. It's not FFA...at least not by precedent.

Drak, we were not mobilizing for it. We were already there and had a kill force in place. And watched them kill it.

[Ella`Ella]

Cloki,

You wanna team up for all Trak's going forward, split teeth 50/50 and lock down VP on BDA? Can split up VP loot either on a joint Loot Council or /ran for first pick.

[Anichek]

Ani, this is pretty embarrassing. You should at least try to get your stories straight before posting.


[Wed Oct 07 15:59:34 2015] Cloki -> chest: so you're fucking the agreement?
[Wed Oct 07 16:00:27 2015] Chest -> Cloki: i'm not fucking anything. I'm telling you that we weren't aware that we were at the threshhold. Since it's been YDYN BDA hasn't seen a single noble at all, and I've already ported my raidforce up as I wasn't aware that it was already past the threshold

Chest is aware of the agreement and plays the card that he's not aware that there were 3 up as to why BDA is there. Further, he notes that BDA hasn't taken a shot at a Noble since Velious (invoking the agreement).



And ran absolutely contrary to both the nature of the conversation that Chest and I had...as well as contradicted him directly:

[Wed Oct 07 16:00:51 2015] Chest -> Cloki: so we're already here, we're going to kill a noble under the YDYN crap, and then we won't kill another this week
[Wed Oct 07 16:01:42 2015] Chest -> Cloki: and then we won't kill another this week, and on any of the other dumb days of the weekwhere people aren't in sky feel free to kill a noble



Could well be that the timers weren't shared. Like they were in the past. Nor were guilds contacted when the thing popped. Like they were in the past.



The midnight kill is a secondary issue. The primary is in the third post of the thread.
The midnight kill is an issue only because:

1. Chest said twice that BDA wasn't gonna kill another noble this week. Twice. So he lied to me twice, given the midnight kill.
2. BDA, contrary to the wont here, didn't share timers which becomes infinitely more important with only a 15 minute window. And BDA was the ONLY guild with timers, according to Chest. We knew there was one due on Wed (sometime after 6pm US EDT) because Xak saw an OoA pop yesterday.
[Wed Oct 07 15:57:55 2015] Chest -> Cloki: there hasn't been 3, because we're the only guild that's been killing nobles
It was entirely incumbent on BDA to post the timer, per how it's worked in the past.
3. In which timezone is 11:45-12:09? We posted times in EDT whereas Chest posted times in CST. That's something that we've never gotten straight.

I'm really astonished that this is coming from you, Ani.

That said, let's assign days to guilds that want to kill nobles.

Sorry to disappoint. I'm posting from work and trying not to dive into a huge research post-war.

From what you posted:
- Chest acknowledges there was a YDYN in place. We don't have a day.
- I posted a timer which spurred conversation and screaming.
- I shall retreat to our Officer forums to discuss potential for a Noble Agreement, in conjunction with the OoA Agreement, and look forward to seeing what is brought to the table so we can all have some fun.

[Anichek]

However, if BDA thinks that YDYN no longer works (and it may not) then the nice thing to do would have to put up a post instead of creating all this drama with your arch-nemesis Omni



Pretty sure Omni's not our arch-nemesis. We rarely cross paths with them.


However, if said Noble sat up for 6 hours and BDA killed it then imo, there is nothing wrong with that. Any, kind of allocation agreement should have an "1 hour to engage" or it's FFA clause.

Like I said, I look forward to seeing what can happen. I whole-heartedly acknowledge that balancing the OoA agreement while finding a way to implement something for Nobles isn't going to be easy.

[bktroost]

Cloki,

You wanna team up for all Trak's going forward, split teeth 50/50 and lock down VP on BDA? Can split up VP loot either on a joint Loot Council or /ran for first pick.

This is not my race war, but any guild that causes a negative impact on the server must be accountable to that servers leadership, or in a mutual agreement violation, accountable to the larger body that agreement represents.

I think that if an outright and willful infraction was committed without that guild making personal apologies and recompense then you'll find many guilds interested in joint recourse. Without it we are back to IB and the nuclear meltdown of 2014.

[Sadad]

This is not my race war, but any guild that causes a negative impact on the server must be accountable to that servers leadership, or in a mutual agreement violation, accountable to the larger body that agreement represents.

I think that if an outright and willful infraction was committed without that guild making personal apologies and recompense then you'll find many guilds interested in joint recourse. Without it we are back to IB and the nuclear meltdown of 2014.

Uh, what? You really comparing BDA killing a noble in front of 6 Omni to the most efficient and ruthless RMT operation on the server?

This is pretty simple, fellas.

BDA agreed to not kill any OoAs.

BDA did not agree to YDYN post-Velious.

We didn't kill an OoA. We did kill a Noble.

[Drakakade]

Sadad, Chest agreed to YDYN as Anichek noted. In fact, Chest refused to agree to a Noble rotation in the past, insisting on YDYN. I don't see a post anywhere where BDA opts out of YDYN. So, every guild was operating under the assumption that the YDYN agreement was still in place.

IF BDA wanted to amend the agreement or suggest a different allocation mechanism post-Velious, then they should have put up a post and worked that out with the existing guilds in the agreement. I think you guys made a bad call killing that Noble, and should make it right.

[Sadad]

Sadad, Chest agreed to YDYN as Anichek noted. In fact, Chest refused to agree to a Noble rotation in the past, insisting on YDYN. I don't see a post anywhere where BDA opts out of YDYN. So, every guild was operating under the assumption that the YDYN agreement was still in place.

IF BDA wanted to amend the agreement or suggest a different allocation mechanism post-Velious, then they should have put up a post and worked that out with the existing guilds in the agreement. I think you guys made a bad call killing that Noble, and should make it right.

Anichek said all that needed to be said in his previous post.

Ensuring clarity here too:

BDA supported YDYN when the Sky calendar was full
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1882585&postcount=30

BDA acknowledged that we would no longer hold a Sky Day, due to the launch of Velious, after many guilds pushed to keep Sky Days as a thing (and only a few stated they didn't care about it being a thing anymore)
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2005760&postcount=153

A post was created about "OoA's in Velious" by Nemce, and BDA agreed to the non-aggression OoA pact, keeping 3 OoA's up to fill sky with Nobles.
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209942

BDA did NOT agree, anywhere in the most recent iteration, to YDYN, referencing the thread Cloki started once 3 OoA's were back in place
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210972

BDA is not looking to monopolize Noble spawns, but YDYN does not work for any guild that is not holding a Sky rotation day in the weekly rotation. Making a guild hold a Sky slot, when they don't want to plan routine activity in Sky (clears/raids), is a waste of a spot that a younger/up and coming guild may want to pencil themselves in for.

YDYN no longer works.

YDYN dead as of Velious. Why should guilds have to clear sky once a week to get a shot at noble?

[bktroost]

Anichek said all that needed to be said in his previous post.



YDYN dead as of Velious. Why should guilds have to clear sky once a week to get a shot at noble?

Nothing is dead until it is pronounced dead. You did not pronounce your leaving of the rotation.

not answering to a post does not under any circumstance insinuate that you are no longer part of something. At most it insinuates that you were too busy to respond.

Also, I was refering to IB nuking the sky agreement, nothing to do with the RMT TMO ban hammer.

[Sadad]

Nothing is dead until it is pronounced dead. You did not pronounce your leaving of the rotation.

not answering to a post does not under any circumstance insinuate that you are no longer part of something. At most it insinuates that you were too busy to respond.

Also, I was refering to IB nuking the sky agreement, nothing to do with the RMT TMO ban hammer.

I thought you were referring to the massive RMT from IB, not the more limited TMO RMT. There's been so much of it, it's hard to keep track.

Please tell me why you think YNYD makes sense in the post-Kunark landscape.

[bktroost]

I thought you were referring to the massive RMT from IB, not the more limited TMO RMT. There's been so much of it, it's hard to keep track.

Please tell me why you think YNYD makes sense in the post-Kunark landscape.


If you think it's worth killing then it's worth maintaining.

Maintaining includes the needs of all guilds. Including BDA.

Which means we are equal stake holders in that responsibility. And equally responsible for breaking it willfully and intentionally.

[Sadad]

Not following your logic here, bud. Noble is worth killing but the agreement isn't worth maintaining if only guilds stuck on stale content are able to kill him. What are you trying to say?

If you want to work out a different arrangement, BDA will be more than willing to abide by a reasonable agreement. We aren't about trying to monopolize these pixels, but YDYN is not reasonable for Velious raiding. That should be obvious to everyone here. Velious broke the agreement, not BDA.

[bktroost]

Velious broke the agreement, not BDA.

And most women that get raped do so because of the way they dress, not the rapists fault.


If that's true then we can discuss it and come up with a new effective method. Forcably taking something that was not agreed on under false and acknowledged pretense is plainly wrong.

[Ella`Ella]

This is not my race war, but any guild that causes a negative impact on the server must be accountable to that servers leadership, or in a mutual agreement violation, accountable to the larger body that agreement represents.

I think that if an outright and willful infraction was committed without that guild making personal apologies and recompense then you'll find many guilds interested in joint recourse. Without it we are back to IB and the nuclear meltdown of 2014.

So, you want in on the VP lockdown too? =P

[Artaenc]

This thread is starting to qualify for RnF. People can rule/agreement lawyer there instead if we move it? I don't want to read this garbage on the raid forum.

[arsenalpow]

Who actually has a sky day currently? AG, Omni, and Anonymous? So we want to keep up with "your day, your noble" for all these guilds, but only 3 (and it could be more but I think it's highly unlikely) actually have a sky day?

YDYN mattered when sky was raided literally every single day of the week by a different raid guild every day and night. That isn't the case anymore, everyone can acknowledge that right? Another bit of common ground is everyone has still agreed to leave Overseers up so that's a plus.

YDYN doesn't represent a good solution for guilds that don't raid sky weekly. What's the better solution?

[Drakakade]

Who actually has a sky day currently? AG, Omni, and Anonymous? So we want to keep up with "your day, your noble" for all these guilds, but only 3 (and it could be more but I think it's highly unlikely) actually have a sky day?

YDYN mattered when sky was raided literally every single day of the week by a different raid guild every day and night. That isn't the case anymore, everyone can acknowledge that right? Another bit of common ground is everyone has still agreed to leave Overseers up so that's a plus.

YDYN doesn't represent a good solution for guilds that don't raid sky weekly. What's the better solution?

Aye, but the process of making changes is important, Chest. Just because the YDYN agreement does not suit BDA anymore doesn't mean you should suddenly renege on an agreement which was existing by killing the nobles. Especially without a post up saying that YDYN doesn't work for BDA anymore. We could have just kept allocating nobles along the YDYN lines irregardless as you are fully aware I am sure, until a new allocation agreement was in place.

Anyways, not to flog a dead horse there - I agree this thread jumped the shark, and as Asgard pointed out, it's devolved into RnF. Let's start a new post and discuss how to allocate Nobles.