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View Full Version : I have never played a Monk


Charlievox
10-02-2015, 01:15 PM
I am thinking about rolling one up just to round out my EQ resume. I have played every other class and enjoyed them all to some extent. Except the Bard, he only lasted three hours. /mourn.

What race is best and after that, what are the Five things I most need to know about playing a Monk?

Nixtar
10-02-2015, 01:31 PM
Iksar is the min-max race but any decently played monk will be an asset to any group they're in. If you group a lot the ikky regen won't make a lick of difference(if it does, work on avoiding damage on pulls).

Make an FD macro. If you haven't turned off auto-attack it will fail.

Work on your sneak. Sneak pull + FD = single pulls all day. You might put the enchanter to sleep doing this though, but if this happens give one mob for the chanter to charm.

If you're forced to tank, demand people rooting(proxy aggro)/snaring because otherwise the mobs might just start ping-ponging between mobs.

Probably my favourite class in EQ. Very versitile. When you get your pulling technique down people will love you to the point when they will actively send you tells asking if you wanna hunt with them.

maskedmelon
10-02-2015, 02:58 PM
Iksar get, forage, ac bonus, regen and better stats. Unfortunately they are ugly as sin ^^

Humans get a -1 delay bonus to their fists at higher levels and don't look like ass ^^

Five things to know:

1. Turn- off attack before feign death. Best to macro it in.
2. When splitting mobs do not sneak while feigned until all mobs have started patching back.
3. Attacking while sneaking within the back 180 degrees of a target will result in a single pull so long as you and it do not have LOS and are within aggro range of other mobs.
4. Watch your weight. Monks get some nasty penalties when overweight and low on health. The standard penalties when not low on hp are not that bad, but are noticeable.
5. Purge aggro. If you are not tanking flop and drop aggro whenever you have it. You can and should help the tank by eating a few blows if mend is up though.

Man0warr
10-02-2015, 03:10 PM
I never liked macroing Feign Death, sometimes had weird lag. I have auto-attack set to Q so by habit I just click it off before hitting my FD button - didn't take long to get used to and its second nature now.

snots
10-02-2015, 04:00 PM
2. When splitting mobs do not sneak while feigned until all mobs have started patching back.
Again, please stop misleading new monks with this erroneous information. I don't know why you think this is how it works, but it's not.

What you want to do is to Sneak as soon after you have FD-ed as possible, so as to reduce the amount of time you have to potentially waste to get a successful Sneak in. If you sneak right after you FD, FD will come off cooldown like a second before Sneak. And if Sneak doesn't come off cooldown in the next 1-3 second after FD came off cooldown, you know the Sneak was successful.

It does not matter when you sneak when FD/Sneak pulling with relation to how the mobs will path back.

(If you're of lower level, Maskedmelon, your mileage may vary with what you're seeing agro wise.)

EDIT: The only two things that matter (basically) are 1. Was the Sneak successful? and 2. Are any mobs facing you when you're standing up again? If the sneak is successful and in a pull of three mobs, two are pathing back, you can stand up and only the one mob facing you will come (provided the two that are pathing back are behind the one facing you of course). End result is a single pull, only you made it happen faster than if you were waiting for all mobs to path back and then start trying to get succesful sneaks in.

maskedmelon
10-02-2015, 04:56 PM
Again, please stop misleading new monks with this erroneous information. I don't know why you think this is how it works, but it's not.

What you want to do is to Sneak as soon after you have FD-ed as possible, so as to reduce the amount of time you have to potentially waste to get a successful Sneak in. If you sneak right after you FD, FD will come off cooldown like a second before Sneak. And if Sneak doesn't come off cooldown in the next 1-3 second after FD came off cooldown, you know the Sneak was successful.

It does not matter when you sneak when FD/Sneak pulling with relation to how the mobs will path back.

(If you're of lower level, Maskedmelon, your mileage may vary with what you're seeing agro wise.)

EDIT: The only two things that matter (basically) are 1. Was the Sneak successful? and 2. Are any mobs facing you when you're standing up again? If the sneak is successful and in a pull of three mobs, two are pathing back, you can stand up and only the one mob facing you will come (provided the two that are pathing back are behind the one facing you of course). End result is a single pull, only you made it happen faster than if you were waiting for all mobs to path back and then start trying to get succesful sneaks in.

Snots, this is the way it works. Try it. I am not sure how it used to work or how it is supposed to work, only how it does work (on red, up through mid 50's) 100% of the time that sneak is successful. Just because you haven't noticed or don't understand a mechanic doesn't mean it works the way you think it does. If sneak is successful before the mobs begin to path back, they all leave at the same time and they will continue to leave at the same time on subsequent FDs. I'd encourage you to test it before arguing further ^^

Synthlol
10-02-2015, 05:22 PM
False bits are bolded.

Iksar get, forage, ac bonus, regen and better stats. Unfortunately they are ugly as sin ^^

Humans get a -1 delay bonus to their fists at higher levels and don't look like ass ^^


Humans have better stats than Iksar. Humans 5 more strength and stamina, while Iksar get 10 more dexterity and 15 more agility. Sure, iksar get more raw melee stats, but STR and STA are much more important than DEX and AGI.


Five things to know:

1. Turn- off attack before feign death. Best to macro it in.


The best monks do this manually and habitually.


Five things to know:

2. When splitting mobs do not sneak while feigned until all mobs have started patching back.


This is so wrong. You just need to be sneaking when you stand up. Hit sneak asap so that if it fails, you next chance for it to work comes sooner.


Five things to know:

3. Attacking while sneaking within the back 180 degrees of a target will result in a single pull so long as you and it do not have LOS and are within aggro range of other mobs.


Sneak actually works in the back ~250 degrees, as in it still works if you are at a mob's side. You don't *have* to be behind them.

maskedmelon
10-02-2015, 07:44 PM
Humans have better stats than Iksar. Humans 5 more strength and stamina, while Iksar get 10 more dexterity and 15 more agility. Sure, iksar get more raw melee stats, but STR and STA are much more important than DEX and AGI.


Nah ^^ Those extra 20-25hp will help on very rare occasions, very rare... How many times have you survived a combat round, feigned or whatever with less than 1% hp? I am guessing you can count them with your fist ^^ Sure it adds an extra 5hp or so to your mend and gives the cleric a free ch every 1-200 heals or so.



The best monks do this manually and habitually.


Ok, you got me... I am not the best. I freely admit that ^^


This is so wrong. You just need to be sneaking when you stand up. Hit sneak asap so that if it fails, you next chance for it to work comes sooner.


Ok, try this. Tonight (or tomorrow or next time you are in Norrath on your monk. You have one right?) Pull a few mobs and make sure the stack on you when you feign. Then think of me ^^ <3 and spam that sneak key. Watch. And learn ^^ It really does work. Now, it is only a concern if the mobs are stacked on you because then they will be the last thing to leave you and if they go at once as a clump, even the sploitastic sneak pull fails (alongside harmony). If you have a string of mobs spaced out from you it doesn't matter. Maybe that is where the confusion was coming from??


Sneak actually works in the back ~250 degrees, as in it still works if you are at a mob's side. You don't *have* to be behind them.
[/QUOTE]

Very cool ^^ That I did not know. I'll give it a try tonight. 110 degree frontal cone seems like an odd number, but ok ^^ If it works it works ^^ Tyx

Man0warr
10-02-2015, 08:41 PM
As long as sneak is successful before you stand up (and the mobs aren't facing you obviously) it doesn't matter if you sneak before or after mobs turned around.

Synthlol
10-02-2015, 09:07 PM
Nah ^^ Those extra 20-25hp will help on very rare occasions, very rare... How many times have you survived a combat round, feigned or whatever with less than 1% hp? I am guessing you can count them with your fist ^^ Sure it adds an extra 5hp or so to your mend and gives the cleric a free ch every 1-200 heals or so.

I didn't say it wasn't marginal, I said it was better. The 5 extra STA results in 20 more hp at level 60, which on it's own is better than 15 AGI and 10 DEX. The 5 extra STR is just gravy on top. I've survived fights with critical levels of hp many more times than you have predicted, and I've just barely died many more. In the former case it was a tiny bit of additional HP that saved me, and in the latter I could have been saved by just a few more. I'll take that a small amount of HP over another proc every hour and a few points of broken AC any day.

Sure, it's just 20 hp. But if you think that 20 hp doesn't matter, you'll also likely think that a djarn's isn't worth it over a platinum fire wedding ring. And that a heiro isn't worth it over a hooded black cloak. And you won't allocate your starting stats to stamina either. This attitude will cause you to constantly miss out on additional hitpoints, and the end result will be that your character will have hundreds of HP less than they could because you don't realize that HP is king.



Ok, try this. Tonight (or tomorrow or next time you are in Norrath on your monk. You have one right?) Pull a few mobs and make sure the stack on you when you feign. Then think of me ^^ <3 and spam that sneak key. Watch. And learn ^^ It really does work. Now, it is only a concern if the mobs are stacked on you because then they will be the last thing to leave you and if they go at once as a clump, even the sploitastic sneak pull fails (alongside harmony). If you have a string of mobs spaced out from you it doesn't matter. Maybe that is where the confusion was coming from??


I'm really not sure what effect you are claiming that sneaking while flopped has on a monk attempting to split with sneak pull. The best I can tell is that you are claiming that sneaking while flopped causes all mobs to path back to their spawn points simultaneously, and this is 100% false on the blue server. I've always know that this is not the case, and to be sure I confirmed it with my monk moments ago.

Can you clarify why you think it's a bad idea to sneak while flopped before all the mobs have begun to return to their spawn points? I did what you said and saw the same behavior that I've seen on the thousands of sneak pulls I've done.

JackFlash
10-02-2015, 10:12 PM
I never liked macroing Feign Death, sometimes had weird lag. I have auto-attack set to Q so by habit I just click it off before hitting my FD button - didn't take long to get used to and its second nature now.

second that

Beinen
10-02-2015, 10:37 PM
second that

Third that. I also don't need someone to press the clutch for me when I shift into first.

maskedmelon
10-02-2015, 11:41 PM
I'm really not sure what effect you are claiming that sneaking while flopped has on a monk attempting to split with sneak pull. The best I can tell is that you are claiming that sneaking while flopped causes all mobs to path back to their spawn points simultaneously, and this is 100% false on the blue server. I've always know that this is not the case, and to be sure I confirmed it with my monk moments ago.

Can you clarify why you think it's a bad idea to sneak while flopped before all the mobs have begun to return to their spawn points? I did what you said and saw the same behavior that I've seen on the thousands of sneak pulls I've done.

Hmmm, you certainly understand what I am saying. All I can suggest is that you keep at it. Now that you know what you are looking for, you are bound to notice it eventually. There is of course also the possibility that the mechanic somehow differs from red to blue, but that seems unlikely. I wouldn't dismiss it so quickly. I'd toy with it a bit.

How about you respond to OP's question though ^^? you sound like you have a few monk hours under your belt and could provide some solid advice. The Info on the sneak pull range was handy (used that tonight ^^).

Colgate 2.0
10-03-2015, 12:34 AM
make an iksar

feign death macros are subject to failure due to connection/server lag, don't use them

20 points into stamina on blue server, 20 points into dex on red server

Colgate 2.0
10-03-2015, 02:04 AM
also i have no idea what this maskedmelon guy is talking about in regards to sneaking while feigning having any bearing on how/when mobs will turn around to path back

Beinen
10-03-2015, 07:06 AM
It works like men blur because when you successfully sneak behind a target you're indifferent. When you sneak while feigning then it typically wipes aggro for you to stand up prematurely. I say prematurely because if you aren't sneak then you would gain aggro on all of the mobs. Im gonna find a link to a fellow p99 monk's YouTube video for reference.

Beinen
10-03-2015, 07:18 AM
http://youtu.be/6qisp8-RWBc

Watch the whole video of course to support our friend on server, but starting at 3:45 he'll give you visual explanation of what were telling you and explain a few more mechanics.

Enjoy

Synthlol
10-03-2015, 11:33 AM
Hmmm, you certainly understand what I am saying. All I can suggest is that you keep at it. Now that you know what you are looking for, you are bound to notice it eventually. There is of course also the possibility that the mechanic somehow differs from red to blue, but that seems unlikely. I wouldn't dismiss it so quickly. I'd toy with it a bit.

If I am understanding you correctly, then you are absolutely incorrect in your understanding of how sneak pulling works, at least in regards to the mechanics on the blue server. I can't speak for red with experience.

You suggest that I'm bound to notice it eventually, and while you don't seem to realize it, this suggestion weakens your argument immensely. It suggests that you are only seeking evidence that supports your theory and ignoring any evidence that contradicts it. If what you claim is true, it would happen every time. I've split pulled with sneak more times than you have hair on your head, and the actual behavior of the mobs during these pulls contradicts your theory 99% of the time.

also i have no idea what this maskedmelon guy is talking about in regards to sneaking while feigning having any bearing on how/when mobs will turn around to path back

I'm willing to bet that Colgate understands the mechanics on Red better than you do. Animals are pattern-seeking, and you have clearly identified a pattern that does not actually exist.

Just because you haven't noticed or don't understand a mechanic doesn't mean it works the way you think it does.

You should really take your own advice here and make an honest attempt to disprove your own theory.

Colgate 2.0
10-03-2015, 11:33 AM
guy's video is incorrect in explaining how it works

the reason he got more adds is because mobs chain aggro'd from the one he threw a shuriken at

has nothing to do with whether they had reached their spawn point or if he took damage

if you sneak and stand up from a feign death while a mob has its back turned to you, it completely wipes you from its memory, unless you do something like that to mess up and re-aggro it

what he should have done is thrown a shuriken, waited to see what came, then feign again and go from there

red and blue have the exact same mechanics

Beinen
10-03-2015, 12:23 PM
He did, he took damage from a damage shield to break sneak. The mob had already returned to, or near to his origin. Thus pulling adds.

Colgate 2.0
10-03-2015, 07:14 PM
that's why you tag it again, see what comes, feign, and then go from there

i feel like people are overcomplicating very simple mechanics

standing up from a feign with a successful sneak = memblur for any mob that you're technically behind, which is like a 270 degree arc

Heywood
10-09-2015, 11:31 AM
that's why you tag it again, see what comes, feign, and then go from there

i feel like people are overcomplicating very simple mechanics

standing up from a feign with a successful sneak = memblur for any mob that you're technically behind, which is like a 270 degree arc

This

Spyder73
10-09-2015, 12:05 PM
yea - FD and Sneak can and should be used in conjunction with each other. There is no benefit to waiting to hit sneak. I completely disagree about not making a FD+Sneak macro, its invaluable to me. I do however have the manual keys up so that i can use them situationally - i concede there are times when you don't want to sneak after FD, or you need to just hit FD solo, ect, ect. ....That doesn't mean a <stopattack - pause - FD - pause - sneak> macro is useless.

Efwan
10-10-2015, 02:28 AM
that's why you tag it again, see what comes, feign, and then go from there

i feel like people are overcomplicating very simple mechanics

standing up from a feign with a successful sneak = memblur for any mob that you're technically behind, which is like a 270 degree arc

X2

Efwan
10-10-2015, 02:30 AM
yea - FD and Sneak can and should be used in conjunction with each other. There is no benefit to waiting to hit sneak. I completely disagree about not making a FD+Sneak macro, its invaluable to me. I do however have the manual keys up so that i can use them situationally - i concede there are times when you don't want to sneak after FD, or you need to just hit FD solo, ect, ect. ....That doesn't mean a <stopattack - pause - FD - pause - sneak> macro is useless.

I wouldn't say it's useless, just not ideal because of latency issues etc when trying to use macros like that, such as /pause commands in a CH rotation.. alot of guilds do use it but ideally each person in the ch chain will count out the 4 seconds and manually push the spell for a pause 40 etc

jolanar
10-10-2015, 10:35 AM
Snots, this is the way it works. Try it. I am not sure how it used to work or how it is supposed to work, only how it does work (on red, up through mid 50's) 100% of the time that sneak is successful. Just because you haven't noticed or don't understand a mechanic doesn't mean it works the way you think it does. If sneak is successful before the mobs begin to path back, they all leave at the same time and they will continue to leave at the same time on subsequent FDs. I'd encourage you to test it before arguing further ^^

This is NOT accurate info.

Also, I don't recommend making a FD macro that turns off auto attack. Train yourself to do it manually and it will go off instantly. The macro has a lag associated with it.

My tip is to make sure you aren't clicking skills. Bind everything to a key, even the sit/stand button. F for Feign Death, G for sit/stand and V for sneak works well for me. They are all right next to each other for easy access. I have kick bound to E.

Raev
10-10-2015, 12:46 PM
also i have no idea what this maskedmelon guy is talking about in regards to sneaking while feigning having any bearing on how/when mobs will turn around to path back

There was/is a bug where if you stood while sneaking (and all targets were facing away) that you would get an automatic memblur. If you wait to start sneaking until all the targets are facing away, then if it works you will get a memblur. So he has a rule that is sufficient, just not optimal.

FD splitting is really easy on this server. Tag, run away, FD, sneak, wait for all targets to turn around, stand up, target the closest one, tag again, infinite singles. Casters make it a *little* tricker but once you have enough cash to afford forged javelins then usually you can start working at a corner.

What is mildly challenging as a monk (especially after Haynar's standard no-evidence nerf to sneak) is getting the right mob out of the pack. HS south is a great playground there.

Colgate
10-11-2015, 12:06 AM
yeah i'm aware that sneak memblurs everything, but the time at which you activate sneak has zero bearing on whether or not a mob is memblurred.. which i think is what he was trying to say?

unless you're trying to claim a failed sneak can memblur things depending on when you activate it? but that's not the case

there's a chance you will memblur a mob after feigning regardless of sneak or not, and that chance increases with multiple feigns against the same mob

usually after like 3 or 4 feigns it seems to be a guaranteed memblur, even if not sneaking

Colgate
10-11-2015, 12:16 AM
I wouldn't say it's useless, just not ideal because of latency issues etc when trying to use macros like that, such as /pause commands in a CH rotation.. alot of guilds do use it but ideally each person in the ch chain will count out the 4 seconds and manually push the spell for a pause 40 etc

we use pause macros in our CH rotations, you just need to tailor the pause to the mob

think in terms of pause amounts and not actual seconds and it will work that way

i'd rather that system than expecting people to have consistent counts in their heads

the only time there's a noticeable difference is if someone hits their macro late or if they're from a different region